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What is "Pro-Science?"

What is "Pro-Science?"


By: Gordy327  •  223 comments  •  2 minutes ago
There have been times where I have been labeled, either explicitly or implicitly, as "pro-science" and often meant more in a derogatory tone. That always strikes me as odd, when someone is labeled pro-science in a negative manner. This tells me that those who use the term pejoratively  either do not understand or accept sound science. To some, science seems to be something to be shunned or...
Jan 27 3:12pm @13.2.47 "..." The YEC claim of a 6,000 year old Earth is wrong by scientific measures.  That does impose scientific measures onto the YEC claim.  The YEC claim is consistent with Biblical measures.  The...
Jan 27 3:03pm @13.2.46 "..." Then how can someone claim to be pro-science?  Throwing out an allegation of strawman does not rectify the inconsistency of pro-science advocating an activity that does not take sides....
Jan 27 2:19pm @13.2.43 "..." The effort was an attempt to impose science upon theology.  Don't ignore that members of the Catholic priesthood have made significant scientific contributions. IMO some motivation for the...
Jan 27 2:09pm @13.2.42 "..." It's not a strawman.  The grammatical modifiers "pro" and "anti" denote advocacy.  Science, itself, does not take sides on what ought or ought not be done to avoid introducing biases.  But...
Jan 27 1:36pm @13.2.38 "..." When did earth become Earth?  If there are questions about when humans become human then the same logic applies.  What is the time scale used in the Bible?  The Bible tends to present the...
Jan 27 1:12pm @13.2.37 "..." Science cannot take sides on questions of what ought or ought not be done while maintaining objectivity.  When science engages in advocacy then science becomes biased. The labels...
Jan 27 12:58pm @13.2.36 "..." Science is not advocacy.  Science only describes material reality.  Science does not make value judgement nor does science advocate for interfering with causality to achieve a social...
Jan 26 4:39pm @13.2.28 "..." You are stating the obvious.  Why? "..." Pro-science is a label that describes a moral advocate, not a scientist.  Why would skeptics of the Bible utilize scientific knowledge and...
Jan 26 2:51pm @13.2.26 "..." Which explains why there is a label "pro-science".  If support for a value judgement requires demonstrating that other value systems are wrong then the label "pro-science" becomes a...
Jan 26 11:44am @13.2.24 "..." I have been stating that the labels are not about the scientific method or science itself.  The labels are applied when value judgements and systems of value are in conflict.  If religious...
Jan 24 3:41pm @13.1.40 "..." So? "..." That is an existential question that philosophy has struggled over.  I don't think science can answer the question since any obtained knowledge would be dependent upon...
Jan 24 2:50pm @13.2.18 "..." The question being discussed is "what is pro-science?"  Stating the obvious "the scientific method cannot tell us what is the moral reason whether or not we should interfere" suggests that...
Jan 24 2:14pm @13.2.16 "..." So what are you questioning?  Are you questioning the obviousness of the statement? Where the statement came from is obvious, as you pointed out.  Stating the obvious does not invalidate...
Jan 24 1:23pm @13.1.37 "..." So?  Emotions are not tangible objects.  A function is not a tangible object.  A chemical reaction is not a tangible object, like a hammer. What you affirm is that recognizing existence...
Jan 24 1:17pm @13.1.36 "..." According to that logic, those who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons should not be allowed in public places, either.  The argument is that lack of vaccination poses a public danger;...
Jan 24 12:59pm @13.1.34 "..." What defines existence?  Love, fear, and hope are not tangible objects.  Knowledge is not tangible and cannot be observed. To recognize existence, doesn't that existence need to be...
Jan 24 12:47pm @13.2.14 "..." Perhaps because no one on this discussion made the claim.  What is the relationship between morality and causality?
Jan 24 12:23pm @13.1.33 "..." What is the relationship between morality and causality?  Aren't you progressing toward David Hume's problem of induction? "..." The dead body is the culmination of a causal chain.  The...
Jan 23 3:32pm @13.1.22 "..." But "benefit and defense of mankind" is a value judgement requiring a lot of hand waving.  Keep in mind that development of fossil fuels was justified for the "benefit and defense of...
Jan 23 1:36pm @13.1.17 "..." That is a value judgement based upon a system of values that places greater value on NASA than the military.  Making that value judgement is subjectively motivated by belief and faith in a...
Jan 23 1:07pm @13.1.13 "..." NASA competes for resources that could be used for other purposes, such as social programs.  Allocating those resources requires a value judgement.  Belief and faith in a system of values...
Jan 23 12:45pm @13.1.12 "..." One does not have faith in a hammer.  But the hammer supports faith in ability to achieve something of value.  The system of values requires belief and faith. As I pointed out, the belief...
Jan 23 12:32pm @13.1.10 "..." Evolution is unimportant, useless, and irrelevant for YEC belief.  That's the basic claim made by YECs.  YECs are not making a value judgement based on science.  Science does not invalidate...
Jan 23 12:08pm @13.1.7 "..." A value judgement that gives greater weight to factors other than scientific study isn't anti-science.  There isn't any requirement for a value judgement to be made objectively; especially...
Jan 23 10:37am @13.1.5 "..." Vaccination has become a contentious issue involving political conflict between "pro-science" and "anti-science" factions.  And the "pro-science" faction labels opposition to vaccination as...
Jan 23 10:10am @13.2.1 "..." Aren't the labels used to influence the opinion of uniformed or uninterested observers?  The labels "pro-science" and "anti-science" seem to be used in a political manner to establish...
Jan 22 11:51pm @13.1.3 "..." Actually you did make that suggestion.  You stated "to be anti-science is to deny the extremely successful scientific method."  As I pointed out, the scientific method imposes limitations...
Jan 22 11:11pm @13.1.1 "..." The scientific method imposes a limitation upon fully experiencing the human condition.  Those who prioritize other means of experiencing the human condition are not necessarily...
Jan 22 10:42pm @13 The term "pro-science" is a natural consequence of labeling people as anti-science.  Those who are pro-science use the label "anti-science" as an ad hominem pejorative to influence uninformed...
A Constitutional Argument

A Constitutional Argument


By: Vic Eldred  •  68 comments  •  54 seconds ago
Today Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz will make a Constitutional argument against the Articles of Impeachment drafted by the House. Mr Dershowitz is not engaged in a lawyer-client relationship with either the president or his legal team. He will be speaking on behalf of the Constitution. The basis of the Dershowitz argument will be based on what he has already told anyone who...
Jan 27 12:13pm @2.6.3 "..." That's a political statement.  Attempting to conduct a prosecution in the court of public opinion is not an impartial trial. Democrats have obtained direct evidence.  Why are Democrats...
Jan 27 11:55am @2.6 "..." Ambassador Gordon Sondland provided direct evidence based on one-on-one communication with the President.  Sondland's testimony wasn't hearsay evidence. Don't chide others for not being...
Weirdest thing ever!

Weirdest thing ever!


Via: Drakkonis  •  19 comments  •  3 days ago
Quantum science is beyond strange. I'm not sure how to think about it, let alone what to think about it. Not much wonder in why Einstein hated the idea. 
Jan 24 1:58pm @5 Even describing reality as quantum possibilities and potentialities does not obviate that reality is highly constrained.  What the experimental results reveal is that chaos is a fundamental...
The debasement of the US Senate

The debasement of the US Senate


By: Vic Eldred  •  118 comments  •  6 days ago  •  LOCKED
Chuck Schumer is clamoring for witnesses, documents and in reality a rolling investigation. For weeks Schumer has been in front of news cameras complaining about how the US Senate may conduct the trial of the President. After a one-sided partisan process in the House, democrats are worried that their rush to impeachment will be quickly dismissed in the Senate. Therefore the circus is now being...
Jan 21 12:03pm @9 Chuck Schumer has violated his oath of impartiality.  Schumer should be dismissed from the Senate trial and expelled from the chamber. Chuck Schumer is trying to engage in New York politics; this...
Historians of Christian nationalism are alarmed by its appearance in American pulpits

Historians of Christian nationalism are alarmed by its appearance in American pulpits


Via: Larry Hampton  •  39 comments  •  6 days ago
Jan 21 11:45am @6.1.5 "..." When?  The Protestant Reformation occurred during the 16th century.  The Age of Enlightenment encompassed the 17th to 19th centuries. European colonial expansion during the 16th and 17th...
Jan 21 11:35am @6.1.4 "..." The Stewart family of Scotland?  The Magna Carta of 1215 was the first step in establishing a secular government in England.  The House of Stuart (successor to the House of Tudor) unified...
Jan 20 4:25pm @6.1.1 "..." Medieval inquisitorial excesses attributed to Christianity were, in reality, motivated by the power of monarchy and feudal nobility.  Royalty and nobility claimed divine justification for...
Jan 20 4:09pm @6 Nazi Germany was not a theocracy.  Neither was fascist Italy or the communist Soviet Union.  Napoleon Bonaparte, Adolf Hitler, Benito Mussolini, and Joseph Stalin led strictly secular governments....
Security measures heightened as thousands head to Richmond for large gun rights rally

Security measures heightened as thousands head to Richmond for large gun rights rally


Via: Vic Eldred  •  129 comments  •  one week ago  •  LOCKED
RICHMOND, Va. — Stacks of chain-link fencing, white-covered tents and rows of metal detectors were in place Sunday night around  Virginia's  Capitol in Richmond, ahead of Monday's widely publicized  gun rights rally. Thousands of people from across the country are expected to attend the demonstration demanding  state Democrats  drop a push for  comprehensive gun control  in the...
Jan 20 3:14pm @7.1.27 "..." That's what Gov. Ralph Northam is doing: fear mongering. How would Northam enforce a firearm ban at the rallies?  Northam is depending on guys with guns to ban guns.  The only thing that's...
Jan 20 2:54pm @7.1.25 Actually 'they' are not after guns, values, or freedom.  The fringe factions of both sides of the political divide are trying to control your mind.  'They' want to live inside your head. You do...
Jan 20 12:21pm @7 Methinks Gov. Ralph Northam is using the Democrats' impeachment playbook.  Northam is trying to be the Adam Schiff of governors. Refresh my memory.  How many people were shot to death in...
GAO says Trump administration broke law by withholding Ukraine aid

GAO says Trump administration broke law by withholding Ukraine aid


Via: Tessylo  •  142 comments  •  5 days ago
GAO says Trump administration broke law by withholding Ukraine aid By  Tyler Olson  | Fox News Nancy Pelosi says Trump will be ‘impeached forever’ Fox News’ Kevin Corke reports on the latest news on the Trump impeachment battle. The Government Accountability Office (GAO) issued a legal opinion on Thursday...
Jan 20 1:30am @11.1.4 "..." Christopher Steele also actively attempted to coax the FBI, State Dept., and intelligence agencies to investigate members of the Trump campaign and Donald Trump.  Steele engaged in the same...
Jan 19 8:52pm @11.1.1 "..." Lev Parnas should be capable of clarifying when he became a government official, too.  I don't recall Parnas making any such claim. Parnas appears to have been doing what Christopher...
Jan 19 12:21pm @11 When did Lev Parnas become an official of the United States government?  
The “Trade Deal” is Hilarious

The “Trade Deal” is Hilarious


Via: Krishna  •  64 comments  •  6 days ago
Joshua M. Brown, CEO Ritholtz Wealth management There’s no third party enforcement or oversight of whether the two sides are meeting their obligations. Basically, it’s just political cover. The market doesn’t care. Stocks wanted a resolution and this will do for now. Here’s Ethan Harris and the BofA Merrill US Economics research team: The more interesting part of the...
Jan 19 12:18pm @4.2.3 "..." Trump has also pointed out that this is a phase one agreement.  The phase one agreement is about beginning negotiations.  In the case of China, that's a big deal. "..." How would a...
Jan 19 12:10pm @4.1.18 "..." That's not capitalism, that's mercantilism.  What you are describing is the idea that trade generates wealth and must be protected by government.  The East India Company was a model of...
Jan 16 3:20pm @4.4.1 "..." But the deal can be enforced with tariffs and embargoes.  Trump negotiated a deal that is more likely to be enforced.  Third party arbitration has not protected the US marketplace and...
Jan 16 2:33pm @4.2.1 "..." Who says the deal won't be enforced?  Placing oversight into the hands of those with a third party vested interest undermines the idea of enforcement for national interests.  Third party...
Jan 16 1:51pm @4.1.1 "..." Only those buying Chinese made goods are affected by the tariffs.  There aren't any tariffs placed on American made goods. But free trade, supply-side, Kissenger politicians have killed...
Jan 16 11:47am @4 The important thing is that third party oversight and enforcement was removed.  The money grubbers in the financial sector have been deliberately excluded and have no say.  The power of brokers to...
'Faithless elector': Supreme Court will hear case that could change how presidents are chosen

'Faithless elector': Supreme Court will hear case that could change how presidents are chosen


Via: Perrie Halpern R.A.  •  76 comments  •  4 days ago
Jan 18 11:15am @3 Maybe it's time to outlaw political parties.  The electoral college was established by the Constitution; political parties were not.  And it is becoming more evident that political parties are...
CNN's Brian Stelter lampooned on social media over documentary announcement

CNN's Brian Stelter lampooned on social media over documentary announcement


Via: KDMichigan  •  23 comments  •  one week ago
CNN’s critics had fun with the network’s in-house media reporter Brian Stelter on Wednesday when he promoted an upcoming documentary about “disinformation and the cost of fake news” on the heels of the liberal network settling a multimillion-dollar defamation lawsuit filed by Covington Catholic High School student Nick Sandmann amid various other controversies. “HBO just announced something...
Jan 17 11:57am @4.3.4 "..." Brooks would be a reasonable choice.
Jan 17 10:16am @4.3.2 "..." The only point you are making is that biased news is fake news.  The irony is that a fake news network is promoting a self-made documentary about fake news.  That would be funny if it...
Socialism, Howard Zinn and his fake history

Socialism, Howard Zinn and his fake history


Via: Donald J. Trump fan 1  •  177 comments  •  5 days ago
This communist socialist book is a complete perversion of American history.  It has zero value and no good points to make.  Pure propaganda. 
Jan 17 10:57am @10 Socialism is just another form of supply-side economics.  The fundamental socialist idea is to collectivize and control the supply side of the marketplace.  Socialism (like any other theory of...
‘Unholy collusion’

‘Unholy collusion’


Via: Larry Hampton  •  240 comments  •  one week ago
Jan 17 10:34am @10 But what of John the Baptist?  Anabaptist tradition is based upon John the Baptist, isn't it? What of Simon Zelotes?  What of Judas Iscariot?  There were 12 chosen disciples.  The 12 were not...
61 Bible Verses About Leadership

61 Bible Verses About Leadership


Via: Larry Hampton  •  6 comments  •  2 weeks ago
Jan 16 4:06pm @2 Luke 12:47-48:  "And that servant who knew his master's will but did not get ready or act according to his will, will receive a severe beating. But the one who did not know, and did what deserved a...
Senate Rules

Senate Rules


By: Vic Eldred  •  186 comments  •  2 weeks ago  •  LOCKED
As the Articles of Impeachment are transferred from the House of Representatives to the US Senate, amid much fanfare, the trial will be much more somber and deliberate, in stark contrast to the inquiry conducted by the House. Yesterday Pelosi and co had their last moment of self-aggrandizement. At 12PM the articles of impeachment will be delivered. The seven impeachment managers selected...
Jan 16 3:26pm @13.1.1 "..." But there is evidence.  Inspector General Horowitz provided evidence.  The Steele Dossier, itself, is evidence.  The politically appointed directors of the intelligence agencies served the...
Jan 16 12:33pm @13 How is Rudy Giuliani different than FusionGPS?  What makes the activities of Parnas or any of the other political 'investigators' different than the activities of Christopher Steele?  Didn't...
Dow, S&P 500 mark worst start to a quarter since 2008 financial crisis as recession fears accelerate

Dow, S&P 500 mark worst start to a quarter since 2008 financial crisis as recession fears accelerate


Via: Krishna  •  30 comments  •  2 weeks ago
Graphic credit: Busy.org U.S. equity markets on Wednesday were ensnared in a two-day tailspin that has pushed the benchmark indexes to one of the worst starts to a quarter since the 2008-09 financial crisis. The Dow Jones Industrial Average  DJIA, -1.86% ,  was down more than 500 points , or 1.9%, at 26,078, with a two-session skid of more than 3%, representing the worst...
Jan 16 2:12pm @10 Anyone happen to notice that the article was published on October 3, 2019?  Old news isn't newsworthy.
“An Open Letter to Christians Who Love Bonhoeffer but (Still) Support Trump”

“An Open Letter to Christians Who Love Bonhoeffer but (Still) Support Trump”


Via: Larry Hampton  •  12 comments  •  2 weeks ago
Jan 16 1:41pm @6 Don't ignore the political trinity: God, family, and country.  An attack on any one of the three is an attack on all. Orthodox Christians ignore the protestant roots of the American political...
America’s Great Divide: From Obama to Trump

America’s Great Divide: From Obama to Trump


Via: Larry Hampton  •  80 comments  •  2 weeks ago
Jan 15 12:06pm @3.2.11 "..." Is some ways, that is correct.  The Republican Party is currently drifting without a political anchor.  Republicans seem to have forgotten that Abraham Lincoln was a nationalist who fought...
Jan 14 8:19pm @3.2.8 "..." Why is that surprising?  Michael Steele's Republican establishment was primaried by the TEA Party.  And Donald Trump has turned Republican conventional wisdom on its head. Today's...
Jan 14 7:48pm @3.2.6 "..." Barrack Obama could have just as easily run as Republican candidate.  Obama could have run on free trade, private sector solutions for economic problems, projection of American leadership...
Jan 14 7:24pm @3.2.4 "..." Was Michael Steele motivated by President Obama being something other than white?   The reason the country became so divided is that conventional wisdom failed to recognize the real...
Jan 14 5:59pm @3.2.1 "..." And what was the racial aspect of the whole thing?  Weren't there racial expectations?  Wasn't that the implied change that Barrack Obama campaigned on? Barrack Obama ran as a...
Jan 14 3:45pm @3.1.1 "..." The episode was a story told from inside the beltway bubble.  Events that occurred outside that bubble were portrayed by how those events affected the beltway bubble and how the beltway...
Jan 14 3:02pm @3 I watched the first episode, although I did drift in and out.  The story is told from the perspective of the elite's conventional wisdom.  What struck me was how that elitist conventional wisdom is...
CNN Does It Again!

CNN Does It Again!


By: Vic Eldred  •  115 comments  •  2 weeks ago  •  LOCKED
Last night the nation had another chance to see the democratic presidential candidates in another boring debate. To watch this debate you had to tune into CNN, America's least watched and least trusted cable news network. As some may already know Liz Warren has accused Bernie Sanders of saying that a woman couldn't win the general election: "Sen. Elizabeth Warren, D-Mass., on Monday said...
Jan 15 11:38am @2.2 "..." Joe Biden is the beneficiary of this fine bit of journalistic bias.  Creating a conflict between Sanders and Warren is a political necessity because Joe Biden is so weak.  Biden is the...
Be prepared to fight a dangerous new wave of disinformation during the Senate trial

Be prepared to fight a dangerous new wave of disinformation during the Senate trial


Via: JohnRussell  •  80 comments  •  2 weeks ago
Jan 14 4:00pm @2.1.19 "..." More importantly McConnell doesn't want the Republican Party to become populated by Trump Republicans.  Donald Trump has not been a friend of the Republican establishment. Remember when...
Jan 14 3:34pm @2.1.16 "..." Donald Trump was demanding witness testimony.  Mitch McConnell convinced Trump to not go down that path. Trump openly declared his intention to fight House Democrats during the Senate...
The UK is abandoning its alliance with Trump as the United States 'withdraws from its leadership around the world'

The UK is abandoning its alliance with Trump as the United States 'withdraws from its leadership around the world'


Via: Krishna  •  35 comments  •  one week ago
President Donald Trump.  Getty The UK is threatening to tear up its defense alliance with the US after President Donald Trump's Iran crisis triggered a rupture between the two countries. UK Defense Secretary Ben Wallace told The Sunday Times that the UK was looking to forge stronger alliances with other international partners that shared its priorities. He said the US...
Jan 13 10:39pm @8 Why would the UK tearing up its defense alliance with the US be a bad thing for the United States? Making a threat really needs to mean something.   
Wait — did liberals actually think they'd remove Trump from office?

Wait — did liberals actually think they'd remove Trump from office?


Via: Nerm_L  •  62 comments  •  2 weeks ago
Democrats have become too conventional.  The obvious political strategy has been to stir up public outrage, run a few polls, and declare political victory.  That is in keeping with the political conventional wisdom of viewing the President as a heroic figure whose heroic status can be tarnished by throwing mud.  That has been the political status quo since forever.  Democrats have been...
Jan 13 4:54pm @3.2.29 "..." Property taxes are levied on wealth.  Same for inheritance taxes and capital gains taxes.  Taxing earned interest on bank savings is a tax levied on wealth.   Sales taxes are not...
Jan 13 4:09pm @3.2.27 "..." If the American Dream dies then the United States dies.  Rural America isn't a foreign country.  Yet, rural America is treated like a foreign country.  Rural America has become insular...
Jan 13 3:33pm @3.2.24 "..." Democrats have been promising to tax wealth but haven't really explained what they intend, either.  And distributing revenue obtained from taxes levied on wealth is a redistribution....
Jan 13 2:30pm @3.2.17 "..." It's kinda difficult to attract diversity to rural America when there aren't any jobs.  The under educated meme is a farce because it is based upon urban standards.  A single class in an...
Jan 13 1:49pm @3.2.15 "..." A family income of $40-50k is middle class in the heartland.  And the middle class in the heartland resent being called poor.  Income and wealth disparity in the United States is a regional...
Jan 13 1:01pm @3.2.11 "..." The United States has been doing what you suggest by incorporating labor reforms into trade agreements.  The problem has been enforcing those reforms.  The reality is that political...
Jan 13 12:10pm @3.2.5 "..." Which I already stated.  But concepts of the American Dream have been embedded in political ideology and government policy.  Government policy for liberalized trade is at odds with policy...
Jan 12 6:48pm @3.2.2 "..." If the American Dream dies, the United States dies.  Factories will come back to the United States IF (big if) appropriate policies are put in place.  If the bureaucracy can micromanage...
Jan 12 5:55pm @3.2 "..." China became the world's second largest economy in 30 years with manufacturing.  If factories aren't important then why are we importing manufactured goods?  You do know that Amazon is...
Jan 12 3:50pm @1 Democrats need to focus more attention on what is important rather than trying to score political points.  Phony pandering and wrapping themselves in the the Constitution accomplishes nothing if...
Protests erupt in Iran over plane's downing that killed 176

Protests erupt in Iran over plane's downing that killed 176


Via: Perrie Halpern R.A.  •  4 comments  •  2 weeks ago
Jan 12 2:24pm @3 The episode illustrates that using the power and authority of government to pursue strictly political benefit can backfire spectacularly.  Governing is about more than scoring political points....
'We've Upped the Ante.' Why Nancy Pelosi Is Going All in Against Trump

'We've Upped the Ante.' Why Nancy Pelosi Is Going All in Against Trump


Via: Vic Eldred  •  14 comments  •  2 weeks ago  •  LOCKED
N ancy Pelosi isn’t wild about the question.  The impeachment of President Donald Trump  is under way, and I’ve asked the  Speaker of the House  if she thinks it’s the most important thing she’ll ever do. We’re sitting in her elegant office in the Capitol, on gold-upholstered armchairs around a low table topped with a vase of hydrangeas. Over her shoulder, the sweeping view of the...
Jan 11 3:34pm @2.1.3 "..." Trump was elected to confront geopolitical aggression directed towards the United States.  War is not desirable but must be fought if necessary.   "..." It isn't about deploying troops...
Jan 11 1:51pm @2.1.1 "..." If Trump becomes a political hero, then electing Trump accomplished nothing.  That's the point Democrats are missing. "..." What was World War I about?  What was World War II about?...
Jan 11 12:49pm @2 Democrats' myopic attention on themselves has missed the whole point.  Donald Trump was not elected to be a hero.  Donald Trump was not elected to allow us to feel good about ourselves.  Trump was...
Iran and America Are Suddenly Both Naked

Iran and America Are Suddenly Both Naked


Via: Buzz of the Orient  •  10 comments  •  2 weeks ago
The Emperor has no clothes = exposing what has been hidden, ignored or denied
Jan 10 9:28pm @3 President Trump already stripped off the mask when he moved the US embassy to Jerusalem.  Sober faced foreign policy experts in Europe and the United States issued dire warnings that Trump would...
Neither Neocon nor Isolationist

Neither Neocon nor Isolationist


Via: Vic Eldred  •  20 comments  •  2 weeks ago  •  LOCKED
D onald Trump isn’t George W. Bush. That should be obvious to everyone by now, but his critics and even some of his supporters immediately acted as if it were 2003 on the cusp of the Iraq War when Trump took out Iranian commander Qasem Soleimani. Suddenly, the neocons had cachet again ( Vox  warned that “the Iraq War hawks are back”), and we were about to launch yet another...
Jan 10 5:01pm @3.1.8 "..." Yep, my goof.  Sorry.
Jan 10 3:47pm @3.1.3 "..." You've mistaken me for someone else.
Jan 10 3:45pm @3.3.1 "..." Well, I don't think anyone really sympathized with terrorists.  The problem is the idea that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" has become conventional wisdom for the left.  (And the...
Jan 10 2:41pm @3.2.1 "..." Shouldn't that be the topic of discussion?  Blaming Trump is only a political diversion to avoid addressing the hard questions.  The public shouldn't allow that to happen.
Jan 10 2:38pm @3.1.1 "..." A consequence of the war that never was.  The downing of the Ukrainian flight was a failure of leadership by the Iranian government.  And there isn't any way to blame the United States....
Jan 10 12:46pm @3 The episode illustrates that it is easy to stir up public sentiment and then run a few polls.  But that is marketing; not governing.  Sturm and drang isn't a rational approach for policy making....
Caption This Photo

Caption This Photo


By: MrFrost  •  37 comments  •  2 weeks ago
No politics.
Jan 10 2:49pm @5 Birth of a meme.
House to vote Thursday on war powers resolution after Iran attacks

House to vote Thursday on war powers resolution after Iran attacks


Via: Nerm_L  •  42 comments  •  2 weeks ago
Democrats have been rocked back on their heels.  The war that never was ended far too soon.  President Trump's 'lack of strategy' has been entirely successful. Democrats' apparent concern for the security and safety of Iran should not be allowed to go unnoticed.  No weapons were ever fired into Iran.  Gen. Qassem Soleimani was killed not far from the Green Zone in Iraq while the US...
Jan 10 12:50pm @1.2.1 "..." I hadn't seen that bit of information.  So, this is much ado about nothing.  House Democrats have only expressed an opinion which is much like having an butt hole.
Jan 09 1:43pm @3.2.14 "..." Yes.  The forces of darkness are, as we speak, attempting to dim the light.
Jan 09 12:35pm @3.2.12 "..." D, the vitamin, is provided by light.  Darkness weakens all.  When the light shines we become stronger.  But too much light blinds; we crave darkness.  
Jan 09 12:44am @3.2.10 "..." So Democrats are claiming that it is necessary to negotiate with terrorists?  Democrats didn't express that attitude toward Muammar Gaddafi.  Why haven't Democrats demanded diplomatic...
Jan 08 5:56pm @1.1.4 "..." Yes it is.  And it's also Nancy Pelosi and the Democratic caucus wanting us to believe otherwise for their own political advantage.
Jan 08 5:39pm @1.1.1 "..." That wasn't the assessment made by Rep. Mark Meadows.  As reported by Karoun Demirjian and Mike DeBonis of The Washington Post: Rep. Mark Meadows (R-N.C.), a Trump confidante who also sits...
Jan 08 5:05pm @1 Democrats are protecting the United States from a war that never was.  Are Democrats trying to protect us from their own imagination?
Pelosi must climb down

Pelosi must climb down


By: Vic Eldred  •  70 comments  •  2 weeks ago  •  LOCKED
The Speaker has put herself out on a limb possibly via some ill conceived advice from leftist law professor Lawrence Tribe. The whole notion of coercing the leader of the US Senate to conform to a trial dictated by the Speaker of the House was almost doomed to failure from the start. What did Pelosi want? The Speaker has always said that she wants more details about the Senate trial before...
Jan 10 12:10pm @10 Democrats have become an excuse searching for justification.  Nancy Pelosi didn't want to go down the rabbit hole of impeachment and resisted for quite a while.  But Pelosi's leadership has been...
Ukraine plane may have been shot down by Iranian missile, report claims

Ukraine plane may have been shot down by Iranian missile, report claims


Via: Vic Eldred  •  41 comments  •  2 weeks ago  •  LOCKED
The   Ukrainian jet that crashed   after taking off from a Tehran airport may have been mistakenly shot down by an Iranian missile, a London-based global information firm says. "Photographs purportedly taken near the site of the crash and circulated on social media appear to show the guidance section of an SA-15 Gauntlet short-range, surface to air missile, which landed in a nearby...
Jan 09 2:32pm @3.1.3 "..." I contend that Iran would use nuclear weapons to pursue political tactical objectives.  Iran wouldn't use nuclear weapons to pursue geopolitical strategy. In my view, Iran sees nuclear...
Jan 09 1:51pm @3.1.1 "..." I don't think it is military expertise that is missing.  Iran seems quite capable of tactical planning and execution.  What seems to be missing is strategic leadership.  Iran hasn't moved...
Jan 09 12:50pm @3 Yes, it is quite likely that an Iranian anti-aircraft battery downed the Ukrainian airliner.  It's important to keep in mind that wasn't intentional.  Tensions were high in expectation of strikes...
Living A Nightmare----How Long Can We Survive As A Rogue Nation

Living A Nightmare----How Long Can We Survive As A Rogue Nation


By: DocPhil  •  170 comments  •  2 weeks ago
All rhetoric aside, this nation is in trouble. We seem to be inextricably divided into two opposing factions that can not or will not reach common ground on almost any issue. 51% of the nation believes that this President and his administration are rogue or illegal actors on both the international and national stage, while a fairly stable 44% of the population believes wholeheartedly that the...
Jan 09 2:19pm @6.1.1 "..." I wouldn't characterize the left as unpatriotic.  But its plainly obvious that the left has been engaged in conventional politics and expecting Trump to respond in a conventional manner....
Jan 09 1:39pm @6 Rogue actors have forced us to set up military check points at any major venue.  Rogue actors have forced us to place security cameras on our front doors, use two factor authentication to protect...
Trump says Iran appears to be ‘standing down’ after strike

Trump says Iran appears to be ‘standing down’ after strike


Via: Nerm_L  •  127 comments  •  2 weeks ago
So ends the war that the never began.  The conventional wisdom of an overly hysterical journalism and political Washington has once again shown itself to be driven by fear rather than facts.   President Trump never beat war drums and never threatened war with Iran.  The President did not call for removal of a rogue government, did not lambaste the Iranian Revolutionary regime for...
Jan 09 2:09pm @3.2.2 "..." Precisely the point. "..." The Twin Towers was a cultural site.  The fact that Washington D.C. is cultural site won't provide any protection. The United States could create a crater in...
Jan 09 12:07pm @3.2 "..." President Trump threatened Iran in the same manner that Iran threatens others.  Trump threatened to retaliate against state sponsored terror with state sponsored terror.  Iran threatens...
Jan 08 1:28pm @1 How can those who declare themselves so right have been so wrong?
Ukrainian airliner crashes in Iran, killing all 176 aboard

Ukrainian airliner crashes in Iran, killing all 176 aboard


Via: Nerm_L  •  13 comments  •  2 weeks ago
Now a tragedy unfolds.  Hysterical journalists have suddenly become reticent to speculate.  The news organizations breathlessly promoted the most outrageous speculations about the President's 'criminal behavior' and intent to turn the Middle East into another Vietnam.  Dire warnings were issued, stock markets fell, and grim faced pundits prepared the public for the end of civilization as we...
Jan 08 8:07pm @2.1 "..." Yes, that's quite possible.  The important thing to keep in mind is that it obviously wasn't intentional. The question that won't be asked is why the Iranian government allowed commercial...
Jan 08 2:30pm @1 Yes, the Iranian government should be held accountable.  Not so much for destroying a commercial aircraft and killing 180 people.  The Iranian government should be blamed for treating its...
Iran retaliates for attack on general by firing missiles at U.S. forces in Iraq

Iran retaliates for attack on general by firing missiles at U.S. forces in Iraq


Via: Perrie Halpern R.A.  •  14 comments  •  3 weeks ago
Jan 08 12:09pm @3 So ends the war that never began.  Trump did not threaten war with Iran.  Trump didn't call for the removal of a rogue government, didn't lambaste the Revolutionary regime's oppression of the...
Missile attacks target US forces in Iraq, senior military source says; Iran suspected

Missile attacks target US forces in Iraq, senior military source says; Iran suspected


Via: Vic Eldred  •  117 comments  •  3 weeks ago  •  LOCKED
Missiles were fired early Wednesday in multiple locations across Iraq, a senior U.S. military source in the country told Fox News, describing it as a series of attacks on U.S. forces from Iran. Missiles were fired early Wednesday in multiple locations across   Iraq , a senior   U.S. military   source in the country told Fox News, describing it as a series of attacks on U.S. forces from...
Jan 07 8:42pm @7 The breathless news reporting has been amusing.  Yes, the mouse has roared.  Little details yet.  What do we know so far? Iran was forced to respond quickly to satisfy Iranian public sentiment;...
Hear That Sound? Those Are the War Drums.

Hear That Sound? Those Are the War Drums.


Via: Krishna  •  22 comments  •  3 weeks ago
Photo: Cronica de Xalapa The impeached president is now sending  thousands of additional troops to the Middle East , men and women who will pay with their lives for Trump’s folly. The president’s cronies are claiming that Trump’s illegal assassination of Iranian military commander Qasem Soleimani was necessary to stop “an imminent attack,” but nobody should believe anything...
Jan 07 5:34pm @3.2.6 "..." Trying for alternate facts?  Donald Trump will always be the 45th President of the United States no matter what happens.
Jan 07 5:29pm @3.2.4 "..." Perhaps.  But Trump is still the 45th President of the United States.  What does that tell us about the Democrat's conventional wisdom of defending the status quo? Trump has fought the...
Jan 07 4:43pm @3.2.2 "..." Political Washington has been outraged because Trump acts without making a persuasive argument and building a coalition of support.  Trump doesn't conform to political conventional wisdom....
Jan 07 4:13pm @3.1.2 "..." How do terrorists defend against terrorism?  Trump hasn't threatened a geopolitical struggle for control of the region.  Trump has threatened to unleash truck bombs on Iran.  Trump has...
Jan 07 2:47pm @3 Trump has not threatened war with Iran.  Trump hasn't called for removing a rogue government or liberating the Iranian people.  Trump has threatened to respond in kind; tit for tat retaliation....
Trump’s One Foreign-Policy Idea Is to Make America More Like Its Enemies

Trump’s One Foreign-Policy Idea Is to Make America More Like Its Enemies


Via: JohnRussell  •  40 comments  •  3 weeks ago
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/01/trump-iran-war-crimes-cultural-bomb-foreign-policy.html President Trump’s risky escalation of the conflict with Iran has confused many people who took him, if not for a dove exactly, then for a skeptic of wars, especially in the Middle East. The unfolding Iran adventure seems to open once again the question of what principle, if any, defines this...
Jan 07 4:04pm @8 The article does explain what Trump is doing.  Trump has not threatened Iran with war.  Trump has not called for removal of a rogue government.  Trump has not called for liberating the Iranian...
An End to Magical Thinking in the Middle East

An End to Magical Thinking in the Middle East


Via: Nerm_L  •  25 comments  •  3 weeks ago
Not long ago President Trump was lambasted for betraying Kurdish allies by withdrawing US troops from northern Syria to avoid a direct confrontation with Turkey who is a NATO ally.  Today President Trump is loudly criticized for escalating tensions and threatening war with Iran who has been an enemy of the United States since the 1970s.  The reality is that the US drone strike that killed...
Jan 07 3:26pm @2.1.13 "..." Eisenhower was warning about profiteering from the Cold War.  The Cold War was a global conflict without fighting.  The weapons weren't even required to be effective; the only requirement...
Jan 06 11:14pm @2.1.11 "..." Then explain the point.  Trump's drone strike wasn't novel or new; just another day in the Middle East.  People in the Middle East have been burning US flags and chanting 'death to America'...
Jan 06 3:54pm @2.1.9 "..." The same companies that develop oil fields, build pipelines, and transport oil in the United States.  The same companies that protect the oil infrastructure in the United States against...
Jan 06 3:20pm @5.1 "..." Yes, that's the problem in a nutshell.  Politicians tell us we must be prepared to fight to protect our interests in the Middle East.  Those same politicians tell us that when we are...
Jan 06 2:34pm @4.1 We've heard that same sentiment from every President since Jimmy Carter.  And here we are; just another day in the Middle East. Why?
Jan 06 2:30pm @3.1.2 Yes, the United States attempting to continue a status quo that accomplishes nothing is something to cry about. Is the United States going to spend more pointless days in the Middle East?  What...
Jan 06 2:21pm @2.1.7 "..." Regional war in the Middle East would cause oil prices to soar.  The United States would become the largest producer of oil.  The oil reserves of the United States would compete with gold....
Jan 06 1:42pm @2.1.5 "..." Yes.  Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer had held a Congressional seats for 10 years before President Bush invaded Iraq.  Pelosi and Schumer were both involved in supporting President Clinton's...
Jan 06 1:16pm @3.1 Military, diplomatic, and civilian personnel died in the Middle East throughout Obama's time as President.  Shots were fired; Obama authorized drone strikes. What did President Obama accomplish...
Jan 06 1:09pm @2.1.3 "..." Pence has been in office for a little less than three years; Pompeo for less than two.  The United States has been militarily and diplomatically involved in the Middle East for over four...
Jan 06 12:48pm @2.1 "..." So, the United States is sacrificing lives and treasure to transform the Middle East into a secular society?  Is that the new status quo?
Jan 06 12:38pm @1 What price is the United States willing to pay for a status quo that accomplishes nothing?
Trump properties could become Iranian targets

Trump properties could become Iranian targets


Via: Krishna  •  45 comments  •  3 weeks ago
A giant billboard advertising the Trump International Golf Club hangs at the Dubai Trade Center roundabout, in Dubai, United Arab Emirates, Feb. 18, 2017. (AP Photo/Kamran Jebreili) There’s a unique set of targets Iran is likely eyeing as it contemplates retaliation for the U.S. killing of a top Iranian general in Iraq on Jan. 2: Trump Organization properties in 11 countries...
Jan 07 2:28pm @7 Yes.  Unlike other Presidents, Trump has placed himself on the front line and made himself a target.  Trump has skin in the game unlike the career political detractors. Donald Trump is the first...
Trump's Actions A Distraction From Impeachment?

Trump's Actions A Distraction From Impeachment?


By: Texan1211  •  15 comments  •  3 weeks ago
Seems like quite a few folks have declared Trump's actions in killing Suliemani are a "distraction" from impeachment. "How so?", a reasonable mind might inquire. Do any of Trump's actions prevent Nancy Pelosi from moving forward with impeachment? Will any of Trump's actions stop the U.S. Senate from holding a trial--if Pelosi submits the articles to the Senate? Please,...
Jan 07 2:16pm @5 Democrat's impeachment of Trump has been a publicity stunt intended to garner public attention.  Trump's confrontation with Iran distracts the public's attention away from the Democrat's political...
Greta Thunberg responds to Meat Loaf comment that she's been 'brainwashed'

Greta Thunberg responds to Meat Loaf comment that she's been 'brainwashed'


Via: Perrie Halpern R.A.  •  140 comments  •  2 weeks ago
Jan 07 1:51pm @11 Greta Thunberg is sound and fury signifying nothing.  Climate activism is all about forcing others to do something they do not want to do.  Cloaking that Puritanical authoritarian excess in a...
Trump’s ignorance has created an international crisis

Trump’s ignorance has created an international crisis


Via: JohnRussell  •  26 comments  •  2 weeks ago
During the early morning hours of Sept. 15, 1950, Gen. Douglas MacArthur would lead U.S.-troops on the most audacious amphibious landing in U.S. history. The assault at Inchon in South Korea was viewed beforehand as being so reckless that the Joint Chiefs of Staff dismissed the proposal out of hand. 'We drew up a list of every conceivable and natural handicap,' one naval officer remembered...
Jan 07 1:16pm @3.1 Hasn't anyone been paying attention?  Trump drew a red line after directly attacking the Iranian Revolutionary regime.  Trump has forced Iran to respond.  The status quo has not been to provoke and...
Jan 07 11:28am @3 More Americans dying across the Middle East is unnecessary.  We only need to withdraw.  The status quo isn't accomplishing anything. Trump, as usual, has changed the status quo.  That's the...
Defiant Trump doubles down on threat to Iran cultural sites

Defiant Trump doubles down on threat to Iran cultural sites


Via: Krishna  •  53 comments  •  3 weeks ago
US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo says that "every target that we strike will be a lawful target" (AFP Photo/Johannes EISELE) Washington (AFP) - US President Donald Trump doubled down Sunday on a threat to attack Iranian cultural sites despite accusations that any such strike would amount to a war crime. After his top diplomat, Mike Pompeo, had insisted that any military...
Jan 07 12:56pm @9 Isn't anyone paying attention?  Trump has not threatened regime change.  Trump has not threatened to remove a rogue government.  Trump is threatening to play the game according to Iran's rules....
Pelosi’s strategy pays off: Now bring in Bolton

Pelosi’s strategy pays off: Now bring in Bolton


Via: JohnRussell  •  135 comments  •  3 weeks ago  •  LOCKED
Former national security adviser John Bolton said Monday that he is “prepared to testify” if called as a witness by the Senate.Bolton’s attorney previously said he would be guided by the courts on whether to testify in the impeachment proceedings. But Bolton said in a statement Monday that “a final judicial resolution” appears unlikely before a Senate trial.“Accordingly, since my testimony is...
Jan 07 12:23pm @6 John Bolton is trying to sell a book.  Bolton wants publicity; that's the 'whatever reason' for his change in attitude.  No doubt Bolton's testimony would be a salacious and entertaining tell-all...
Tucker Carlson Is Absolutely Right About Ilhan Omar

Tucker Carlson Is Absolutely Right About Ilhan Omar


Via: Vic Eldred  •  37 comments  •  3 weeks ago  •  LOCKED
Americans are constantly being lectured that good citizenship isn’t contingent on skin color, faith, or ethnicity, but a set of beliefs. Yet whenever anyone is critical of the ugly things someone like Ilhan Omar   says , they are immediately battered for being xenophobes and   racists . You can’t have it both ways. I mean, you can try. Nearly the entire contemporary progressive argument...
Jan 05 10:18pm @2.2.9 "..." No, you did not mention Trump.  I brought Trump into the discussion because the comparison between Trump and Omar would be enlightening and informative. Quite the quandary isn't it?...
Jan 05 3:36pm @2.2.7 "..." No, you mentioned Charlottesville and referred to a white guy running a bunch of people over.  But it wasn't just a white guy, was it? Trump is a political figure that addressed what...
Jan 05 3:12pm @4.1 "..." People are ignoring that the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA) was temporary.  JCPOA was intended to be in force for only 15 years.  Iran didn't agree to any sort of permanent...
Jan 05 2:50pm @2.2.4 "..." "..." So, Trump was excoriated for doing exactly what CAIR does?  Ilhan Omar was only emulating Trump?  That 'pretty good analogy' doesn't pass the smell test. Ilhan Omar's context...
Jan 05 12:43pm @2.2 "..." And what was the context?  Omar was attempting to portray Muslims as victims of the September 11 attack while ignoring that the Muslim community in the United States harbors terrorists....
Did Donald Trump Just Start a War with Iran?

Did Donald Trump Just Start a War with Iran?


Via: Krishna  •  121 comments  •  3 weeks ago
Photo: Two American political leaders The U.S. drone strike that killed Major General Qasem Soleimani, one of Iran’s top military leaders, is an extremely provocative incident. It triggered  immediate vows of retaliation  from Tehran, and there is every reason to assume that the clerical government intends to fulfill those vows. Washington’s strike is the latest move in a...
Jan 05 1:11pm @11 The real question is if Iran finally started a war with the United States?  Iran has established proxies in Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon.   Just because US soldiers, contractors, and diplomats are...
Fundraising by Democratic Presidential Candidates Looks Like A Bad Omen For Trump

Fundraising by Democratic Presidential Candidates Looks Like A Bad Omen For Trump


By: JohnRussell  •  71 comments  •  3 weeks ago
Dave Weigel @daveweigel Trump raised $46 million for the quarter. For all the "impeachment is SURGING Trump's fundraising" stuff (I'm sure it did!), the Dem field is easily going to double him. That is really, really unusual. The 2012 GOP field and 2004 Dem field did not outpace incumbent presidents....
Jan 03 12:02pm @4.1.6 "..." Yeah but that obsession hasn't been about the White House.  The Democrat's blue wall is slated to lose seven, possibly eight, Congressional districts (and electoral votes) in 2022.  And...
Jan 02 12:48pm @3.2 "..." Bernie Sanders' edge is authenticity.  That's somewhat similar to Ron Paul's appeal.  However, Ron Paul wasn't a proven fundraiser, so he did not receive attention or support from the party...
Jan 02 12:24pm @4.1.2 "..." I agree.  But Trump's braggadocio isn't any different than what other politicians do.  To me, bragging about spending public money is worse than bragging about fundraising.  The key thing...
Jan 02 11:59am @4 Hillary Clinton's fundraising (@ $1.2 billion) was almost double that of Donald Trump (@ $0.65 billion).  And Clinton outspent Trump by almost a 2 to 1 margin, too. Campaign fundraising was not a...
 Two years after Trump tax cuts, middle-class Americans are falling behind

Two years after Trump tax cuts, middle-class Americans are falling behind


Via: JohnRussell  •  22 comments  •  3 weeks ago
Over the next two years, income for middle-class Americans is projected to grow at less than half the rate as for the richest 1%, a recent Congressional Budget Office found. The country's top-earning households will also enjoy a bigger decline in tax rates than all other groups. As a result, income inequality in the U.S. — already at a 50-year high — is expected to worsen....
Jan 03 11:27am @3.2.7 "..." Obviously incorrect.  An engine plant operated by General Motors for its own consumption is a business.  As you stated, production is a business activity.  And profit is not a requirement...
Jan 02 4:31pm @3.2.5 "..." Go back far enough and we'd find a subsistence economy that wasn't based upon consumers, marketplaces, or trade.  The consumer had to be the producer because there wasn't anyplace to buy...
Jan 02 2:21pm @3.1.3 "..." Yes, that's why consumption is the controlling factor for the economy.  Where do consumers get the money to consume? Consumers must also be producers so they can buy things.  We can try to...
Jan 02 2:13pm @3.2.1 "..." Phony measures of inflation have been used far too long to mismanage the economy for the benefit of profiteers and passive investors.  The inflation that matters affects what people have to...
Jan 02 11:42am @3.1.1 "..." Consumers do not maintain a payroll.  Consumers only provide an unorganized pool of money.  Where do consumers get their money? "..." Walmart collectivizes unorganized consumer spending...
Jan 02 11:00am @3 Amazing!  The economy has been on the wrong track since Bill Clinton was President and everyone expects that to be corrected in less than two years.  It was the economic policies of the Clinton...
Wake up, Republicans. Your party stands for all the wrong things now.

Wake up, Republicans. Your party stands for all the wrong things now.


Via: JohnRussell  •  89 comments  •  4 weeks ago  •  LOCKED
He bet that Republican voters didn’t really care about free trade or mutual security, or about the environment or Europe, much less deficits. He rebranded kindness and compassion as “PC” and elevated division and bigotry as the admirable goals of just being politically incorrect. Trump didn’t make Americans more racist; he just normalized the resentments that were simmering in many...
Jan 02 1:52pm @4.1.1 "..." From my arguably limited perspective, the country is ready to change direction.  20th century political promises haven't delivered.  But the country hasn't decided which way it wants to go;...
Jan 01 5:49pm @4 So, the bottom line is that Republicans have become Democrats?   According to the author, the Republican Party has become a party of racial grievance, subjective morality, and political...
Epic redistricting battles loom in states poised to gain, lose House seats

Epic redistricting battles loom in states poised to gain, lose House seats


Via: Nerm_L  •  21 comments  •  3 weeks ago
Other reporting indicates that New York is close to losing two congressional districts.  California will experience an unprecedented loss of one district.  The rust belt appears to be the big losers while the south and west gains political power in Congress.  The 2022 election could be quite different than what we've seen is many decades.
Jan 02 10:18am @2.3 "..." It's a bizarre situation where people are spending more money to obtain a temporary gig than they can recoup in salary.  And the people using that upside down strategy appear to become...
Jan 02 10:07am @3.2 "..." I'm not so sure that the southern states are becoming more liberal.  Southern politics is very different than politics in the northeast or California.  Plus the immigrants coming to the...
Jan 01 12:05pm @1 Democrats may need to replace Jerry Nadler with Gerry Mander.