Ohio to let teachers carry guns after 24 hours of training
By: Jonathan Allen
Good/Bad
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
(Reuters) - Ohio is set to enact a law that allows teachers and other staff to be armed with guns in schools once they have completed up to 24 hours of initial training.
Proponents hope armed teachers will reduce the frequency and deadliness of school shootings, which have become recurrent in the United States. The bill's opponents, including teachers' unions and the state's main police officer union, say it will only make schools more dangerous for children.
The bill was finalized 10 days after a teenager with an AR-15-style rifle attacked a school in Uvalde, Texas. Nineteen students and two teachers were killed in the massacre.
Ohio Governor Mike DeWine, a Republican, has said he will sign the bill into law.
The bill https://ohiohouse.gov/legislation/134/hb99 was passed by the Republican-controlled Ohio General Assembly this week. It was designed to defuse a ruling last year by the Ohio Supreme Court that said a longstanding state law required teachers to complete more than 700 hours in a peace-officer training program before they could be armed with a gun on school premises.
Proponents of the bill said it would allow school staff to confront an armed attacker before police entered.
"In emergency situations at our schools, seconds matter and tragedies can be prevented," Representative Thomas Hall, the bill's sponsor, said in a statement https://ohiohouse.gov/members/thomas-hall/news/hall-champions-historic-school-safety-bill-110271.
Armed teachers would be required to undergo criminal background checks and receive 8 hours of additional training each subsequent year.
DeWine said in a statement the governor's office had worked with lawmakers since the Uvalde shooting "to remove hundreds of hours of curriculum irrelevant to school safety, and to ensure training requirements were specific to a school environment."
The Ohio Education Association and the Ohio Federation of Teachers said in a joint statement that the bill was rushed and risky.
The bill, they said, put "educators in the impossible position of making split-second life-and-death decisions without sufficient training. This could undoubtedly lead to more tragedies in our schools."
Under the new law, school districts would have to notify parents if they decide to let armed teachers onto school premises. It was not immediately clear how many school districts would choose to allow teachers to be armed.
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I taught high school and junior high school in urban settings.
This is a terrible idea.
We're afraid of the wrong thing. We're so concerned about the incredibly unlikely idea of a random shooter in a school that we're ignoring the absolute guarantee of routine chaos in everyday public school life.
The likelihood of an accidental injury outweighs the likelihood of protection against an active shooter by an astronomical amount.
Yep, the typical fear mongering from the opposition side. They have said the same thing almost every time a state has changed their gun laws and have been wrong just as much. Remember the outcry when Georgia changed their laws to allow conceal carry in bars? OMG they said, people will drink and the blood will flow. Hasn't happened yet...
I have no issue with teachers and staff, if they are willing to AND have undergone training (as well as annual training) to carry in schools. I'm willing to bet the vast majority who do carry will be responsible with this charge.
But if the schools allow this to occur then I believe they also need to have annual gun safety training for EVERY child in the school so that should a teacher or staff be careless the child will know what to do rather than just pick up the gun to play. It needs to be a package deal IMO.
I agree that 700 hours seems a bit excessive but only 24 would be the flip side.
I have no problem with teachers being armed, but a mere 24 hours of training is totally insufficient to teach them what they need to know, When I got my concealed carry permit for the state of Arizona it required three full days of training that included legal aspects of carrying, theoretical scenarios to be expected, a written test that one had to score at least 90% correct on, and actual range shooting on the last day. My class consisted entirely of experienced shooters that were either former military or former law enforcement. Inexperienced shooters were given a full week.
I have an issue with teachers carrying as my wife is one.
I'm sure you realize the stress/anxiety that is piled on teachers from day 1, right? My wife teaches HS Spanish I, II,III, and Medical and has SEVEN classes a day, with 35 students assigned to each class (if they bother to show up). She is at school from 7 'til 4:00 (required) during school days. A number of days a year, she has to attend "special" meetings that start at 6 a.m. or after school, plus the "parent/teacher" days and the quarterly PTA's. As an example of "special meetings", she has to go to Albuquerque Sunday, for the week, for a Governor's training programs - one on COVID response and the other on personnel threat response.
After school, she closes herself off in a room in the house and spends 3 to 5 hours prepping for the next day/rest of the week - depending on the class.
Total, she spends 12 - 15 hours A DAY, during the school week, teaching. There are no weekends because she spends all day Sat/Sun grading papers, preparing tests, and receiving CONSTANT phone calls from her students/parents (the school district has mandated that you make yourself available to the students/parents at all times).
Her temperament, while at home, is fragile - to say the least. While at school, based on some of the stories she tells of the students and their attitudes, she walks a very, very fine line, along with the other teachers, of being fired, suspended, sued or physically harmed by the students/parents if the "STUDENTS" feel they are being improperly treated/graded.
District gives full support to the students/parents - the Union fights, tenaciously, for the teacher's rights and it's a never ending battle.
At the schools in our city??? No, teachers carrying would not be a good idea.
Kudos to your wife, and kudos to you for your support. Those not directly involved have no clue as to the effort it takes and the potential toll it may take. Peace to you and yours.
I understand your points and agree with most of them. I should have clarified in my previous post that what I stated is not applicable to all schools and teachers need to retain the right to decide for themselves. My concern is schools in high risk metropolitan areas and inner city schools where the majority of school shooting take place. My hat is off to your wife as she is obviously highly devoted to her job and her students. We need more like her. I hope this clarifies my position somewhat.
I would expect nothing less from you Ed - thanks.
“I have no problem with teachers being armed…”
Do we not ask enough of our teachers? To have to teach is tough enough but within their expectations.
To have to deal with ‘active shooter drills’, ‘shelter in place drills’ and potential arms training is beyond the pale. It is placing the responsibility of our children’s safety upon those that have no business bearing that burden.
They deserve better, not asking more.
My wife, an elementary school teacher, has her own .357 (from before we met) and is proficient with it. We rarely fire anymore because range time in here Northern VA is a real pain.
Half of her class is ESOL but, I don't think that she has ever seriously considered carry into her class. Her current issue in our very liberal county is COVID. She came down with it on Monday and half her class is out with it. The county no longer tracks or publishes numbers. Even she is vaccinated and boosted, she got full blown home symptoms.
Gads Wry/Rye - hope she gets over this safely 'cause it ain't pretty.
Thanks, It hit her early Memorial Day morning but today her fever dropped and she is doing better.
Hope she feels better soon.
Hope she gets better soon and you continue to improve
I guess it's the gun advocate politicians' backup plan due to current circumstances to deal more with the effect by increasing the use of guns rather than dealing with the cause - that way it looks to their base that they are doing something positive while exacerbating the problem. I note from the article that teachers/staff would first be checked for criminal record, but NOTHING is said about a mental health examination. I can recall a couple of teachers I had back then who were very capable of flying off the handle and doing insane things - like Miss Gathercole who threw her text-book out the window because she got so mad at us.
Don't think all schoolkids are litttle angels. Anyone who watched the movie Goodbye Mr. Chips and seen how the kids acted with their teacher on his first day teaching, which might have been an exaggeration, would realize otherwise, but today kids with guns are exhibiting more dangerous behaviour than any kids did then or even in my day. Do the teachers retain possession of the guns or leave them locked up in the school? The guns have to be handy while the teacher is at their desk so are they going to wear them like Western movie gunslingers or put them in a drawer - a locked drawer which would require them to fumble with a key while under extreme stress? And will they forget to lock the drawer when they left the room - as I said are all schoolkids little angels? My prediction is that among school teachers/staff guns are going to cause even more deaths.
As a person who taught high school students in school for six years, although guns did not exist as a problem there and then, but had I have been in America instead, I would have rebelled if I had to even TOUCH a gun, let alone use it.
I believe the 24 hour instruction has created some confusion here, the teachers that they are training are more than likely people who are already proficient in the use of firearms and are instructed in active shooter scenarios and rules of concealed carry. They aren't forcing all teachers to be armed, just those that wish to be, which may be enough to dissuade a potential school shooter. Switch the sign from "Gun Free Zone" to "Armed Teachers Zone".
Change that to "ARMED SCHOOL STAFF AND TEACHERS ZONE" and publicize it sufficiently and put up very visible signs saying so at all entrance points and MAYBE it will discourage most intended shooters save for those who are same as "Suicide by Police" types.
However, I still have the concerns about errant teachers and staff themselves as I indicated in my previous comment.
What makes you believe that ? I'm just curious.
The 24 hour training period. That amount of time isn't enough for someone who never handled a gun before, it's for someone with the familiarity and safety training already under their belt.
I can only speak for myself. I have familiarity and safety training ( a requirement in CT when getting a carry permit). I can't imagine feeling comfortable enough after 24 hours of additional training. Maybe 24 hours for people with military, first responder or other such training, more training for someone with gun safety training and hours at a range and still more training for someone interested but with no training (or maybe that disqualifies them from the program). Maybe even a psych eval of some sort before allowing it. My point is if we are talking about the safety of our kids there should not be a one training fits all. Don't be in such a hurry to get teachers armed that you take a shortcut that could end very badly.
I agree. Are you saying that they are only training teachers that already have proficiency in using fire arms ?
I would certainly hope so, if you note even those here that are for it still have reservations about it especially if you are talking about someone who has no experience with guns, 24 hours is folly, so I would hope that the Ohio bill sponsors had already taken this into account as we are here.
When I took the class (years ago), you had to pass basic security officer, 24 hours, to take armed security class that was 40 hours including range qualification .
I think more training than that is needed and it should count to teacher continuing education requirements. Also, this should get extra pay, Teachers taking this added responsibility should also be sworn as special officers with limited police authority.
Not all teachers would make good armed guards and not all want to do it, they should be very careful who they pick.
I’m on the fence with this one. On one hand I have no doubt many teachers could become proficient to the point of being a good last resort solution to the problem. On the other I had teachers I would not want to be carrying. One size will never fit all. I suspect most schools could get already trained and proficient LEO’s and/or former military to volunteer as needed. Parents with kids in school etc.
On another note the campus cops at my college could not carry when I was there. They polled the school to be able to carry and the students voted it down by like 95%. There was a reason for that. Most of them were Barney Fife types I would not want to carry a nerf gun let alone a real one. They paid those guys and gals squat. Most were city, county, state cop wanna be’s who were already rejected by organized law enforcement.
I really don’t think teachers need to be armed if proper controls are enacted on campus. That along with trained LEO’s on campus, at all times, will go a long way to securing these campuses.
This is a toughie. I would think the qualifications should be more stringent than 24 hours of training could supply, even to many people with firearms or military experience. All bets are off when the shit hits the fan and the last thing I would wish on any teacher is the accidental shooting of one of their kids.
Lol I'd prefer to see weapons training similar to that of basic military trg, say 10 weeks or so. Nothing like some grizzled old Sgt seeing every mistake you make and yelling at ya 24/7 to make you learn
More guns is the answer to everything?
Everybody should be armed?
I am reminded of a Pogo saying from many years ago. "We have met the enemy, and he is us."
That cartoon is still applicable.