Mike Pence: Trump shouldn't be criminally charged over Jan. 6
By: Maureen Groppe and Savannah Kuchar (USA TODAY)
Well looks like someone sees right through it.
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
Maureen GroppeSavannah KucharUSA TODAY
WASHINGTON - Former Vice President Mike Pence, who was a target of the Jan. 6 mob, said Monday he hopes the Justice Department will not bring charges against his former boss.
"I think the president's actions and words on Jan. 6 were reckless, but I don't know that it's criminal to take bad advice from lawyers," Pence told Fox News. His comments came hours before the congressional committee that investigated the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol recommended former President Donald Trump be prosecuted over his efforts to overturn the 2020 election.
Pence dismissed the bipartisan Jan. 6 committee as partisan because its members were appointed by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif. He emphasized that the Justice Department is not required to follow the committee's recommendations.
"I hope the Justice Department understands the magnitude, the very idea of indicting a former president of the United States," Pence said. "I think that would be terribly divisive in the country at a time when the American people want to see us heal."
Trump pressured Pence publicly and privately to help him stay in power, eventually putting Pence in direct danger on Jan. 6, Rep. Pete Aguilar, R-Calif, emphasized during Monday's committee hearing.
Aguilar said Trump's scheme was based on an "unfounded legal theory" that Pence had the ability to overturn the election by rejecting electors during the certification of results. Pence himself had denied having such power, which resulted in an angry phone call between himself and Trump.
"Wimp is the word I remember," said former assistant to Trump, Nicholas Luna, in a clip played by the committee. Luna had overheard the phone call and added that Trump remarked he made the wrong decision years ago in choosing Pence as vice president.
Tags
Who is online
395 visitors
Then Mr. Trump needs to count his blessings and disappear back into the business world.
I agree fully. With that being said, do you honestly think the left and Democrats are willing to move on to actual important items?
Not unless they get a trial and guilty verdict and jail time which, at this point, I don't think will happen
They still have a major obstacle to overcome at trial. They haven't faced any defense team yet. The whole thing could fall apart on them (again).
The partisan J6 Committee didn't allow any sort of cross-examination, so their TDS and Trump-hatred could backfire on them.
And that is where their problem lies. The left and Democrats expect everybody to take them at their word that this will succeed. They don't have a good record of stuff like this panning out for them.
"I hope the Justice Department understands the magnitude, the very idea of indicting a former president of the United States," Pence said. "I think that would be terribly divisive in the country at a time when the American people want to see us heal."
Short of incriminating videos, phone taps, or emails, it looks like all the "evidence" is rather flimsy. I doubt a reasonable Federal prosecutor would take a case like this to court, and risk losing.
It would be a career ender.
Good idea Pence, what America really wants to see is how the wealthy and powerful do not have to follow the same laws as the rest of us. Right?
Is that what Pence said?
What laws are you talking about?
Not following the laws and disregarding the Constitution is practiced daily by the majority of the Democrats.
Southern Border
If you had top secret documents spread all over your house, do you really think you wouldn't be in jail right now??? Hmmm?
Any specific examples?
The phone call in Georgia was recorded "I need 11,000 votes..." and the John Eastman memo exists, in writing, and contains a plan to have Pence hand the election over to Trump. We know Trump approved the plan because he told Pence to talk to Eastman, and in his Jan 6th speech Trump says there is still time for Pence to follow Eastman's plan.
There is much more. The idea that Trump is innocent is laughable.
That's a statement of the obvious. Do you think candidates ask for recounts for any other purpose other than winning the election?
If you actually read the entire transcript, he states numerous times that he won the election and the official count is wrong by hundreds of thousands of votes.
You can't (no what matter Liz Cheney tells you) pick one line from a phone call or text and ignore the entire context.
He states numerous times, without a lick of fucking evidence, that he won the election by hundreds of thousands of votes then asks a State election official to "find" exactly the same number of votes he would need to win.
The whole call is even WORSE in context than just the statement that he "just wants to find 11,780 votes". It's beyond clear what he's asking for and he's threatening them with criminal prosecution if they don't comply. Dirty Donald is a vile criminal, when will people stop protecting and defending such a tired fat piece of fucking useless? I guess it will only happen when America no longer has about a third of our population that mirror the Cheeto Benito's utter uselessness.
Funny that Clinton did the same thing in 2016 and Stacy Abrams did the same thing. Clinton's lies even spawned the past 6 years of investigations to overthrow an election. But you all are mysteriously silent about that.
Well, right now he is.
Garland has all the cards. Why isn't he playing them?
Was OJ innocent of killing Nichole and Ron Goldman? Was Al Capone innocent of everything except tax evasion? Not convicted DOES NOT EQUAL innocent!
I gave them all the answers, but evidently, they don't like it.
Not convicted in a court of law means no punishment. Convicted in the court of public opinion is a wholly different, and the one I think the Dems are hoping for.
Prosecuting Trump is pointless because most Americans people want our government to move on and solve todays problems, instead of obsessing about a washed up psychopath.
I know those are rhetorical questions, but I take such joy in answering them:
Was OJ innocent of killing Nichole and Ron Goldman?
Evidently not, but black Americans on the jury openly admitted to letting him go free because they wanted to get back at white America.
Was Al Capone innocent of everything except tax evasion?
Nope, but it was the beginning of a pattern for federal prosecutors: prosecute the mob anyway you can.
Not convicted DOES NOT EQUAL innocent!
And Justice DOES NOT EQUAL a single standard, as evidenced by the way one side is never held accountable.
Really? Please do link the audio of them on the phone with a Secretary of State asking them to "find" the exact number of votes they lost by in order to overturn the election results while threatening the Secretary with jail time if they don't comply. I'd say I can wait for you to supply the evidence of your claim but considering I already know you don't have any evidence of your false claim waiting would be rather pointless much like your clearly baseless opinions. There simply is no equivalence between any prior loser in a presidential election with what Donald the deplorable despot did after losing in 2020.
Trying to compare Hillary in 2016, who conceded within days of the election, to Trump and his childish tantrum and continued refusal to concede to this very day while also inspiring and instigating an attack on our capital then displaying a monumental dereliction of duty by standing by watching the violence happen without even lifting a finger to stop it until hours later when it was apparent that his attempted insurrection had failed, is beyond ludicrous.
He was at least charged with their murders.
That isn't what I asked. Was OJ innocent of murder? By Vic's thinking he was...
You apparently either have a very short memory or don't pay attention at all.
Lol. Try and prove that.
Please prove where Trump said that....
That was 2 years ago. Funny that he hasn't been prosecuted for such a clear crime. It's amazing how evidence of all these crimes are "beyond clear" yet no one has been charged after years of investigation.
Not a surprise that MAGA sympathizers want Trump to evade justice.
He has done more to put America in turmoil than the next 100 candidates combined, and he needs to pay a price.
Beyond a shadow of a doubt, Trump tried to steal the 2020 election, and you want him to just walk away?
Hell no.
You mean outside of Brandon the Human Fuck Up Machine correct? Who has single handedly driven this country into a ditch.
Beyond a shadow of a doubt TDS sufferers need to shut the fuck up and go away. Without them constantly focusing on Trump his support will wither and die.
But Democrats need Trump; because w/o him voters will be focused on how fucked up the country really is; and who is to really blame.
The gist of all this drama is that the lefties want to keep up this ongoing distraction to deflect from the very real damage Biden and the Dems are doing to our country
Did you hear his latest? While VP, he gave his uncle a Purple Heart. The only problem is that his uncle died in 1999.
More ...
Biden has shown a tendency to "talk to the dead".
Biden calls out for late Rep. Jackie Walorski at White House hunger event
Pence believes the dead hear his prayers!
So do billions of people practicing a religion. But they aren't calling out for them or telling people his dead daddy told him to do something as a "world leader" are they?
Talking to God is one thing. Believing, as Pence does, God talks back is Q-razy...
So telling the world your dead daddy told you to do something is "Q-razy". Good to see you are finally starting to see the problem with Biden.
I would suggest the 25th Amendment, but the alternative isn't better. She said she smoked weed (and inhaled) while listening to rappers before they'd even written any songs yet.
When you combine that with forgetting where (and when) your child died, wandering aimlessly around and looking for people that just aren't there can be symptoms of a bigger mental problem. Could be a very good reason to start looking at 25th Amendment procedings.
I can provide a list of Biden's failures in just his 1st 100 days.
Can you provide the same for Trump or are you just going to keep repeating the same unfounded accusations over and over again?
You are full of it. I've been after the all powerful left to convicy him of something to get him out of the race, but it now looks like DeSantis can beat him fairly easily in a primary. Now I get to watch the incoming House put the investigators on trial.
Either they are incompetent or Donald J Trump is one of the most honest men that ever lived.
Either way, it won't make much difference anymore.
The big tip-off was when the Governor of Florida was meeting with foreign leaders while Trump was releasing a line of silly ass cards.
So? Kinda like Renfield endorsing Count Dracula...
Trump is responsible, in my opinion, for advancing a trend in politics where losing candidates - particularly like-minded Republicans - will flog the shit out of the legal system trying to find some way to get the results reversed in their favor. They do this on little or no evidence of wrongdoing, fraud, or honest mistake.
It was apparent to me, as early as 2016, that this would always be his strategy in case he ever lost. In spite of winning the Electoral College vote in 2016, he insisted - with no evidence - that the popular vote count was wrong. It didn’t matter to the outcome, but he was planting the seed.
Trump did not invent this practice, of course, but he took it to more extreme levels than I think we have ever seen.
After he lost the 2020 election, he not only repeated the familiar conspiracy theories, but he went to court something like 60 times, in just a couple months, trying to get various results invalidated. I don’t think he won a single decision.
Our system allows nutbags like Trump to get their “day in court” over and over again until they win or the other side runs out of money or patience. For Trump, the effort is totally worth it. He already keeps his lawyers on retainer, so he might as well put them to work. The cost to him in terms of money and effort is insignificant and the potential reward is everything. Sanctions from the courts have been imposed, but they lack teeth.
If you asked me, I would say he and his lawyers are abusing the system. What they are doing is wrong.
However, it MUCH harder to say that any of this is criminal. All the way along, Trump has exhausted every legal means to win an election he lost fair and square. Even telling people to march to the Capitol and let their voices be heard is legal. Hell, that’s the First Amendment. You have a right to petition the government for a redress of grievances - even if your grievances are lame. And there’s no law against being publicly full of shit.
Trying to convict Trump of a crime is going to be a very hard ask. We have him on video telling people to be peaceful when they went to the Capitol. What he wanted Pence to do was at least arguably legal (though I would argue it’s not legal), and it definitely wasn’t violent.
Unethical? Of course. Dishonest? Yep. Crazy? That, too. But Criminal? Probably not under our current laws and system.
I agree Trump did not invent this practice. Going back several administrations this was done. Even in the 2016 election it was done. We see the claims of stolen elections coming from both the Democrats and Republicans. But for some reason, Trump's is the one everybody is hyper focusing on.
With the way the "investigation" went, I agree. There was no opportunity for any kind of cross examination. Which brings to question, will it survive cross examination at trial? Probably not. That's for the courts to decide.
Maybe it’s because of the way he keeps at it, even in the face of a total lack of evidence. Hillary Clinton was the same way after 2016. She spent literally years claiming Trump and the Russians (or some other villain du jour) stole the election from her. She was rightly mocked for it (although perhaps not widely enough), but no one thought to charge her with a crime.
I think it will ultimately turn on caselaw in the appeals system. If DOJ does decide to prosecute, I think there’s a fair chance he will get convicted. However, I think there’s an even stronger chance he will win on appeal.
I understand. My general point above was that we can all look at a thing and agree it’s wrong, but that doesn’t make it a crime. Simply identifying statutes that arguably fit the behavior does not settle the matter.
If Trump resigned Pence could have pardoned him!
And the left would have cried about that too.
Democrats would have cheered if Trump resigned the first time he was impeached!
Yeah we see how that worked out for the Democrats didn't we.
Look at them. They are STILL whining over an election and falsified investigations. It's a guarantee they would still be whining.
At least Nixon had the grace to resign knowing he would be impeached. In the end it worked out fine for Democrats when Biden whooped his fat ass. Which is BTW, how it worked out for Democrats!
Had to go back 50 years for something. Not like that changes my statement.
Biden whooped Trump just two years ago!
ohh you got me there. What will I ever do?!?!?! Really? Still coming up like every investigation into Trump - empty.
Hey Mike, remember this? It was meant for YOU!!!!