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New film provides truth in the face of George Floyd lies

  
Via:  Just Jim NC TttH  •  5 months ago  •  402 comments

By:   Liz Collin (New York Post) Miranda Devine

New film provides truth in the face of George Floyd lies
It's a self-protective aspect of human nature to put aside painful memories, and that's what most of us have done about the murderous riots in the summer of 2020 that were sparked by George Floyd's death in Minneapolis.

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Today's America

And there you have the false fuel for "The Summer of Love 2020" exposed.


S E E D E D   C O N T E N T


It's a self-protective aspect of human nature to put aside painful memories, and that's what most of us have done about the murderous riots in the summer of 2020 that were sparked by George Floyd's death in Minneapolis.

But for the people of that fallen city, and for all the cops across the nation who were abandoned and betrayed by their feckless political leaders, the pain still burns bright.

It ought to burn for the rest of us, too, because we still are suffering the consequences, in the catastrophic breakdown of law and order nationwide. We will continue to do so while the lies about George Floyd's death are left to fester.

A brilliant new crowdfunded documentary, "The Fall of Minneapolis," aims to remedy our collective amnesia about the events of May 25, 2020 — a time when the country was already half-mad from the ravages of COVID-19 and forced lockdowns, and when Democratic Party operatives, including candidates Joe Biden and Kamala Harris, seized on the "Defund the police" movement, in order to bring down President Donald Trump.

So many lies have been told since, and so much truth buried by the Big Tech censors that control reality, that the documentary arrives like a slap in the face.

5Flames from a nearby fire illuminate protesters standing on a barricade in front of the Third Police Precinct on May 28, 2020 in Minneapolis, Minnesota, during a protest over the death of George Floyd.AFP via Getty Images

Wake up, it says. Remember. Look at the truth and hang your head in shame a little that you allowed yourself to be fooled.

Personal connection


"The Fall of Minneapolis" reveals a shocking tale of injustice and perfidy, and a ruthless political operation that contained the seeds of the January 6 Capitol riot eight months later and the consequent hyperbolic crackdown on Trump supporters.

The film was produced by Liz Collin, a former anchor at a CBS affiliate in the Twin Cities who was taken off air during the riots and demoted because her husband, Bob Kroll, was the Minneapolis police union chief at the time.

Their house was besieged by angry mobs yelling abuse over megaphones and beating pinata effigies of the couple throughout the trial of police officer Derek Chauvin.

5Protesters set fire to a police vehicle on May 30, 2020, during a protest against the death of George Floyd.NurPhoto via Getty Images

But she does not allow personal emotion to creep into the film, instead driving the narrative dispassionately with shocking new evidence. She interviews Chauvin in jail, where he is serving 21 years, his mother and many of the cops who have resigned.

From false testimony in Chauvin's trial to police bodycam footage of Floyd's arrest that was withheld for two months, to the autopsy report that was altered after the FBI got involved, Collin presents a damning forensic record that needs avenging.

Collin draws on new evidence unveiled last month in a sexual harassment lawsuit, filed by former Hennepin County prosecutor Amy Sweasy, against then-County Attorney Mike Freeman.

Sweasy's complaint details a revolt in the Hennepin County Attorney's Office over the decision to charge Chauvin's fellow officers Tou Thao, Alexander Kueng and Thomas Lane with aiding and abetting second-degree murder. Lane and Kueng, who is black, were fresh out of the academy.

Sweasy and three other prosecutors refused to work on the case because it "violated professional and ethical rules."

5George FloydBen Crump Law

In sworn testimony, prosecutors told of the "insane … extreme premium pressure" they were under to throw the book at Chauvin and charge the other cops because "the city was burning down."

One said that Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison "taking over the Chauvin cases was difficult particularly when we had a governor who kind of threw us under the bus."

The original autopsy report by Hennepin County Medical Examiner Dr. Andrew Baker the day after Floyd died found there was "no physical evidence suggesting that Mr. Floyd died of asphyxiation.

"Mr. Floyd did not exhibit signs of petechiae, damage to his airways or thyroid, brain bleeding, bone injuries, or internal bruising."

Sweasy claims that Baker also told her that day that "there were no medical findings that showed any injury to the vital structures of Mr. Floyd's neck. There were no medical indications of asphyxia or strangulation."

5The "I Can't Breathe - Silent March for Justice" on March 7, 2021, in front of the Hennepin County Government Center, site of the trial of former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin, charged with murdering African American man George Floyd.AFP via Getty Images

But then she claims Baker told her: "Amy, what happens when the actual evidence doesn't match up with the public narrative that everyone's already decided on? … This is the kind of case that ends careers."

On May 31, 2020, Sweasy said Baker shared the results of toxicology tests with prosecutors, which showed that Floyd, 46, had a "fatal level of fentanyl" in his blood, along with methamphetamine.

Floyd also had COVID and severe "arteriosclerotic heart disease," with one artery 75% obstructed, and "hypertensive heart disease."

But Ben Crump, the ambulance-chasing attorney who represented the Floyd family and secured them a $27 million payout from the Minneapolis City Council, told the media: "George Floyd was a healthy young man."

The private forensic pathologist he hired, Dr. Michael Baden, declared, without seeing Floyd's body or slides of the autopsy, that "there was no underlying medical problem that caused or contributed to his death."

The documentary says the FBI met with Baker after Baden's review and soon after the official autopsy report was changed to find Chauvin was to blame. Floyd's cause of death had become "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression."

There is so much that is shocking in the documentary.

For instance, it finds that the hold that Chauvin, a "by the book" cop, used on Floyd was an approved technique that he and every other cop had been trained to use by the Minneapolis Police Department.

It was called the maximal restraint technique (MRT) for handcuffed, uncooperative suspects. All of the cops interviewed by Collin said MRT was part of official training.

In the bystander video that went viral after Floyd's death, it appears Chauvin's knee was on Floyd's neck. But in bodycam footage, his knee appears to be on Floyd's shoulder.

Chief of Police Medaria Arradondo testified under oath at Chauvin's trial that "it was not" a trained Minneapolis police defensive tactics technique.

But Chauvin's mother pulled out her son's training manuals in her interview with Collin, which show images of the MRT hold.

5Protesters gather in front of a liquor store in flames near the Third Police Precinct on May 28, 2020, in Minneapolis, Minnesota, during a protest over the death of George Floyd.AFP via Getty Images

The images "sure as hell are in Derek's training manuals, so how can they say they don't exist?"

But the judge refused to allow the evidence to be shown to the jury.

Everyone failed Minneapolis and, ultimately, failed America.

Rogue's gallery


The prime offenders fingered in the film are:

  • Arradondo, the cowardly police chief who immediately branded Floyd's death "murder."
  • Judge Peter Cahill, who ruled out exculpatory evidence, refused defense requests to move the trial out of Minneapolis, where the baying mob could be heard inside the courtroom, and refused to sequester the jury.
  • Jacob Frey, the soy boy surrender mayor who ordered the Third Precinct to sacrifice its police station to the mob.
  • Keith Ellison, the Antifa-hugging attorney general who ran roughshod over the rule of law when he railroaded Chauvin and the three other police officers jailed with him, and lied that Trump supporters (whom he branded "white supremacists") were to blame for the riots.
  • Tim Walz, the Biden-loving governor who refused to deploy the National Guard and instead allowed arson, looting and mayhem to engulf Minneapolis for 13 days and spread to the rest of the country.

Frey, Ellison and Walz all won re-election. Arradondo retired early. None of them has been held to account. This insurrection of the incendiary left has been memory-holed.


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Article is LOCKED by author/seeder
 

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Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
1  seeder  Just Jim NC TttH    5 months ago

Prior to judgement jumping, read the whole of the article to save yourself some deletions.

Floyd also had COVID and severe "arteriosclerotic heart disease," with one artery 75% obstructed, and "hypertensive heart disease." But Ben Crump, the ambulance-chasing attorney who represented the Floyd family and secured them a $27 million payout from the Minneapolis City Council, told the media: "George Floyd was a healthy young man."

So much conflicting evidence now that the court of public opinion has been subdued a bit.

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
1.1  A. Macarthur  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @1    5 months ago

When a person with COVID HAS A COP’s KNEE ON HIS NECK FOR 8 MINUTES, IT’S STILL THE COP RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT PERSON’s DEATH. No different than a drunk driver running down an individual with cancer, heart disease or COVID!

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
1.1.1  seeder  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  A. Macarthur @1.1    5 months ago
For instance, it finds that the hold that Chauvin, a "by the book" cop, used on Floyd was an approved technique that he and every other cop had been trained to use by the Minneapolis Police Department.

In the bystander video that went viral after Floyd's death, it appears Chauvin's knee was on Floyd's neck. But in bodycam footage, his knee appears to be on Floyd's shoulder.

Chief of Police Medaria Arradondo testified under oath at Chauvin's trial that "it was not" a trained Minneapolis police defensive tactics technique.

But Chauvin's mother pulled out her son's training manuals in her interview with Collin, which show images of the MRT hold.

I guess you didn't see #1 above....................

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
1.1.2  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  A. Macarthur @1.1    5 months ago
When a person with COVID HAS A COP’s KNEE ON HIS NECK FOR 8 MINUTES,

Body camera video shows other wise.  Or did you miss that part of the article?

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
1.1.3  A. Macarthur  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @1.1.1    5 months ago
Chauvin, a "by the book" cop, used on Floyd was an approved technique that he and every other cop had been trained to use by the Minneapolis Police Department.

The Minneapolis police chief testified that Officer Derek Chauvin violated departmental policy — and went against “our principles and the values that we have” — in pressing his knee on George Floyd’s neck and keeping him down after Floyd had stopped resisting and was in distress.

Continuing to kneel on   Floyd’s   neck once he was handcuffed behind his back and lying on his stomach was “in no way, shape or form” part of department policy or training, “and it is certainly not part of our ethics or our values,” Police Chief Medaria Arradondo said on Day Six of Chauvin’s murder trial.

While police have long been accused of closing ranks to protect fellow members of the force charged with wrongdoing — the “blue wall of silence,” as it’s known —  some of the most experienced officers   in the Minneapolis department have taken the stand to openly condemn Chauvin’s treatment of Floyd.

Regardless of Floyd's medical condition, THE LAST ACT IMMEDIATELY PRIOR TO THE MOMENT OF HIS DEATH WAS THE RESULT OF A KNEE ON HIS NECK FOR MORE THAN 8 MINUTES.


 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
1.1.4  seeder  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  A. Macarthur @1.1.3    5 months ago
Chief of Police Medaria Arradondo testified under oath at Chauvin's trial that "it was not" a trained Minneapolis police defensive tactics technique. But Chauvin's mother pulled out her son's training manuals in her interview with Collin, which show images of the MRT hold.

Still didn't read the article I see.

Where you would find this...............

On May 31, 2020, Sweasy said Baker shared the results of toxicology tests with prosecutors, which showed that Floyd, 46, had a "fatal level of fentanyl" in his blood, along with methamphetamine.
 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
1.1.5  Greg Jones  replied to  A. Macarthur @1.1.3    5 months ago

You've lost the argument. Quit trolling.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
1.1.6  Jack_TX  replied to  A. Macarthur @1.1.3    5 months ago
The Minneapolis police chief testified that Officer Derek Chauvin violated departmental policy

I think the point of the article is that people in power at the time conspired to offer Chauvin and several others as sacrifices to the angry mob.  It seems entirely likely that would be true to some degree, given the situation at the time.

I don't think that exonerates Chauvin entirely.  He certainly should have used better judgment, at the very least.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
1.1.7  Nerm_L  replied to  A. Macarthur @1.1    5 months ago
When a person with COVID HAS A COP’s KNEE ON HIS NECK FOR 8 MINUTES, IT’S STILL THE COP RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT PERSON’s DEATH. No different than a drunk driver running down an individual with cancer, heart disease or COVID!

What the seeded article shows is that backsided hindsight isn't always the truth.  And the article (and political narrative) ignores a lot of cold, hard facts.

Someone called the police.  Chauvin didn't just show up on a whim; someone reported a crime and requested the police.  George Floyd wasn't an accidental bystander the police targeted at random.  The police were notified that George Floyd was a perp.  And whoever called the police also has a right to police protection and justice.  

The facts are George Floyd resisted the police who were responding to a call.  How many minutes did George Floyd resist?  And why isn't George Floyd responsible for his own actions that resulted in his death?

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.1.8  Tessylo  replied to  A. Macarthur @1.1.3    5 months ago

I cannot believe that people still defend this indefensible bullshit!

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.1.9  Tessylo  replied to  Nerm_L @1.1.7    5 months ago

Wow blaming the victim for the cop who murdered him.

[deleted]

 
 
 
goose is back
Sophomore Guide
1.1.10  goose is back  replied to  Tessylo @1.1.8    5 months ago
I cannot believe that people still defend this indefensible bullshit!

Why not, people still think Michael Brown had his hands up.

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
1.1.11  George  replied to  goose is back @1.1.10    5 months ago

Or call Kyle Rittenhouse a murderer for the excellent job of pest control in Kenosha.

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
1.1.12  A. Macarthur  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @1.1.4    5 months ago

He could have been literally near death when Chauvin put his knee on Floyd's neck, but a victim's vulnerability and health at the time he's assaulted does NOT NEGATE THE EVENT THAT BROUGHT AN END TO HIS LIFE, IN THIS CASE, NINE MINUTES OF THE KNEE OF A POLICE OFFICER ON HIS NECK! Calling it "asphyxiation" without STIPULATING THAT AT THE MOMENT OF DEATH, THE ASPHYXIATION WAS PRECIPITATED BY EXCESSIVE FORCE IMPOSED UPON A HANDCUFFED VICTIM IS AN INTENTIONAL MISREPRESENTATION AND OMISSION OF A CRUCIAL DETAIL!

If an individual with a weak heart dies of a heart attack that occurred at the moment he was struck by a car driven by a drunk driver, THE DRUNK DRIVER Is STILL GUILTY OF VEHICULAR HOMICIDE!

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.1.13  Tessylo  replied to  George @1.1.11    5 months ago

Kyle Rittenhouse is a murderer who killed unarmed protesters

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.1.14  Texan1211  replied to  George @1.1.11    5 months ago
Or call Kyle Rittenhouse a murderer for the excellent job of pest control in Kenosha.

Some folks will never, ever get over the fact that Rittenhouse was found not guilty.  Strangely enough, the ones doing the most whining about him over the years are some of the same folks who are cheering on courts in Trump cases.

 
 
 
goose is back
Sophomore Guide
1.1.15  goose is back  replied to  Tessylo @1.1.13    5 months ago
who killed unarmed protesters

Maybe you should read up on the case.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
1.1.16  Right Down the Center  replied to  Tessylo @1.1.13    5 months ago

When does his sentence start?

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
1.1.17  Right Down the Center  replied to  Tessylo @1.1.8    5 months ago

People also still deny the undeniable

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
1.1.18  seeder  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  A. Macarthur @1.1.12    5 months ago

But he didn't  FUCKING DIE FROM ASPHYXZIATION.   From the autopsy.

CASE TITLE:
CARDIOPULMONARY ARREST COMPLICATING LAW ENFORCEMENT
SUBDUAL , RESTRAINT AND NECK COMPRESSION
DECEASED: George Floyd aka Floyd Perry SEX M AGE: 46
DATEAND HOUROF DEATH: 5-25-20; 9:25 p.m.
DATE AND HOUR OF AUTOPSY: 5-26-20 ; 9:25 a.m.
PATHOLOGIST : Andrew M. Baker, M.D

The knee it has been shown was more on the shoulder.

No life- threatening injuries identified
No facial, oral mucosal, or conjunctival petechiae
B. No injuries of anterior muscles of neck or laryngeal
structures
No scalp soft tissue, skull, or brain injuries
No chest wall soft tissue injuries, rib fractures (other
than a single rib fracture from CPR ) , vertebral column
injuries, or visceral injuries
Incision and subcutaneous dissection of posterior and
lateral neck , shoulders , back flanks , and buttocks
negative for occult trauma

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
1.1.19  A. Macarthur  replied to  goose is back @1.1.15    5 months ago

Maybe you should read the case within which the judge would not allow the prosecution to refer to the dead individuals as "victims" … did you watch the trial? It was televised. 

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
1.1.20  A. Macarthur  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1.5    5 months ago

Oh! Well then that’s that!

Another dismissive comment despite the very specific rebuttals to your clear willingness to accept what suits desired conclusion,

There’s no discussing here, just a take it or leave it one way street.

The question you won’t answer is, “what was happening at the moment of George Floyd’s death.”

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
1.1.21  Greg Jones  replied to  A. Macarthur @1.1.20    5 months ago

His heart gave out from overexertion and the drugs, especially the fentanyl. The cops knee on his shoulder area did not contribute to his death. There is no physical evidence his airway was blocked. Your denial of reality is not a virtue.

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
1.1.22  A. Macarthur  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @1.1.2    5 months ago

256

 
 
 
goose is back
Sophomore Guide
1.1.23  goose is back  replied to  A. Macarthur @1.1.19    5 months ago
judge would not allow the prosecution to refer to the dead individuals as "victims"

He was correct, they were the aggressors and not very smart to attack a man with a firearm. It seems Liberals have this mindset that you should just submit to the criminals and let them due what they want.  

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.1.24  Tessylo  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1.21    5 months ago

No you and yours here denial of reality is not a virtue.  It's PD&D + delusion.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
1.2  CB  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @1    5 months ago

It truly is sad that right-wing blogosphere (and media) needs to always have its say about liberal life! The fact is whatever (excuse) you want to give it---the COURTS, which conservatives value went it suits their purposes, has ruled and REFUSED to entertain any appeal or higher court considerations of Mr. Chauvin's murder case for which he received 22 plus years. Moreover, it is telling that once again some conservatives are stirring around in old shit, because they refuse to accept that other people can be trusted to find fact-based truth apart from speculation, "\wonderment" outloud, and resistance to a conservative agenda.  The case has been decided. The 'perp' is in prison. Barring any new FACTS that change the circumstances (Officer Chauvin's foot on the neck of George Floyd) it will not be heard in court again.

Just. Let. It. Go!  But then, letting liberals "own" their interests IS the problem, eh?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.2.1  Texan1211  replied to  CB @1.2    5 months ago
It truly is sad that right-wing blogosphere (and media) needs to always have its say about liberal life!

Say, here's an idea.

Let's pretend that the left-wing blogosphere (and media) don't do the same exact thing!

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
1.2.2  CB  replied to  Texan1211 @1.2.1    5 months ago

Moderate/Liberals (with any sense anyway) don't want to waste their lives opposing conservatives. Some conservatives, in any case, or a 'thousand' times worse in nearly every category of busy-ness about getting and keeping shit going. . . and not changing the rules for another group/organization/race benefit

This attempt at "whataboutism" fails, because of the above.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.2.3  Texan1211  replied to  CB @1.2.2    5 months ago
Moderate/Liberals (with any sense anyway) don't want to waste their lives opposing conservatives. 

Then why do they?

What is really funny is that conservatives aren't in charge of the country, Democrats (liberals) ARE.

So you are complaining about conservatives when it isn't them making these rules.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
1.2.4  CB  replied to  Texan1211 @1.2.3    5 months ago

Some conservatives are a nuisance minority with political power that is hard to explain how it is achieved and maintained. . .but it is there and it is what it is. And conservatives control whole states, plural, politically—Through hook or crook. And I need not mention the House of Representatives for you can see which party is in control there just as easy as you can see which party controls the Senate!

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.2.5  Texan1211  replied to  CB @1.2.4    5 months ago

wow, isn't it amazing the minority can accomplish so much while the majority accomplishes so little.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
1.2.6  CB  replied to  Texan1211 @1.2.5    5 months ago

It's called gerrymandering. And, although both parties do it - some conservatives do it to a 'thousand' degree more when in power while liberals would gladly legislate gerrymandering out of existence all things being equal.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.2.7  Texan1211  replied to  CB @1.2.6    5 months ago

Then either you don't know what majority means and or trying to blame gerrymandering for the Dems majority

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
1.2.8  Snuffy  replied to  CB @1.2.6    5 months ago

Um, no.  When a politicians first job after winning an election is to determine what he/she must do next to be re-elected, neither party will give up on gerrymandering when they are the majority party in the state when it's time to redraw the district lines.  That you can basically condemn one party for this action while excusing the other only shows your extreme partisanship.  

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2  JohnRussell    5 months ago

Disgusting far right excuse making. 

The cop kneeled on Floyds neck for nine minutes, even though for a good part of that time Floyd was saying he couldnt breathe. There were at least three cops there , and Floyd was not being violent prior to putting him on the ground. 

Now we hear he had heart disease, as if that were a factor exonerating the cop. Disgusting. 

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
2.1  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  JohnRussell @2    5 months ago
 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.2  Tessylo  replied to  JohnRussell @2    5 months ago

The defense of the indefensible - the murder of Chauvin by this hateful scum - is deplorable.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
2.2.1  seeder  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Tessylo @2.2    5 months ago

Haste makes waste. Chauvin didn't get murdered................Floyd did supposedly

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.2.2  Tessylo  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @2.2.1    5 months ago

My mistake.

Thanks for admitting that Chauvin murdered Floyd.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.2.3  Tessylo  replied to  Tessylo @2.2.2    5 months ago

Floyd was murdered by the hateful scum racist cop Chauvin

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
2.2.4  Greg Jones  replied to  Tessylo @2.2.3    5 months ago

Learn to read....

On May 31, 2020, Sweasy said Baker shared the results of toxicology tests with prosecutors, which showed that Floyd, 46, had a "fatal level of fentanyl" in his blood, along with methamphetamine.

Floyd also had COVID and severe "arteriosclerotic heart disease," with one artery 75% obstructed, and "hypertensive heart disease."

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.2.5  Tessylo  replied to  Greg Jones @2.2.4    5 months ago

See 2.2.3

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
2.2.6  Right Down the Center  replied to  Tessylo @2.2.5    5 months ago

See 2.2.4

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
3  Jeremy Retired in NC    5 months ago
The original autopsy report by Hennepin County Medical Examiner Dr. Andrew Baker the day after Floyd died found there was "no physical evidence suggesting that Mr. Floyd died of asphyxiation. "Mr. Floyd did not exhibit signs of petechiae, damage to his airways or thyroid, brain bleeding, bone injuries, or internal bruising."

Just needed repeating.

The private forensic pathologist he hired, Dr. Michael Baden, declared, without seeing Floyd's body or slides of the autopsy, that "there was no underlying medical problem that caused or contributed to his death.

Wait.  Weren't we all told that this second "autopsy" found the MRT was the cause of death?

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
3.1  seeder  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @3    5 months ago
Dr. Michael Baden, declared, without seeing Floyd's body or slides of the autopsy,

Without even seeing it? LMAO

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
3.1.1  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @3.1    5 months ago

And nobody questioned that little factoid.

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
3.2  A. Macarthur  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @3    5 months ago
physical evidence suggesting that Mr. Floyd died of asphyxiation

Caused by a knee on his neck … ASPHYXIATION - the  state or process of being  deprived  of oxygen, which can result in  unconsciousness  or death; A KNEE ON ONE'S NECK FOR ALMOST NINE MINUTES WILL SO DEPRIVE AN INDIVIDUAL OF OXYGEN … DUH!

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.2.1  Vic Eldred  replied to  A. Macarthur @3.2    5 months ago

Which was not true ...DUH!

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
3.2.2  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  A. Macarthur @3.2    5 months ago

Autopsy reports state otherwise and body cam video shows otherwise. 

Did you not read the article?  DUH!

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
3.2.3  seeder  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  A. Macarthur @3.2    5 months ago

Man READ................

The original autopsy report by Hennepin County Medical Examiner Dr. Andrew Baker the day after Floyd died found there was "no physical evidence suggesting that Mr. Floyd died of asphyxiation. "Mr. Floyd did not exhibit signs of petechiae, damage to his airways or thyroid, brain bleeding, bone injuries, or internal bruising."

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
3.2.4  Tessylo  replied to  A. Macarthur @3.2    5 months ago

It was closer to 10 minutes and that's murder.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.2.5  Texan1211  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @3.2.3    5 months ago

Gee, whatever happened to "Follow the science" mantra?

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
3.2.6  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Texan1211 @3.2.5    5 months ago

Oh come on.  We all know "follow the science" only applies when it meets certian narratives.  And this isn't one of those narratives.

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
3.2.7  Jasper2529  replied to  Texan1211 @3.2.5    5 months ago
Gee, whatever happened to "Follow the science" mantra?

"Follow the science" was only applicable when it related to NIH/CDC/NIAID/Fauci Covid lockdown junk science as a means to create fear in order to control the populace.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
3.2.8  Tessylo  replied to  Jasper2529 @3.2.7    5 months ago

[DELETED]

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4  Vic Eldred    5 months ago

On May 31, 2020, Sweasy said Baker shared the results of toxicology tests with prosecutors, which showed that Floyd, 46, had a "fatal level of fentanyl" in his blood, along with methamphetamine.

No shit. So, he was a drug addict and a thug.

And we have two systems of justice.

All that violence which was tolerated over fucking George Floyd.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.1  Tessylo  replied to  Vic Eldred @4    5 months ago

[]

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
4.1.1  seeder  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Tessylo @4.1    5 months ago

If you are going to flag, refrain from returning a response on that flagged comment. It negates it.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.1.2  Tessylo  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @4.1.1    5 months ago

 [Removed   use members correct name when responding   Warning this time]

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5  JohnRussell    5 months ago

[DELETED]

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.1  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @5    5 months ago
doubling down

That is the correct phrase.

Two dozen people were killed in your peaceful protests!

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
5.1.1  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1    5 months ago
Two dozen people were killed in your peaceful protests!

Can't forget about the $1–2 billion in damages.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
6  Vic Eldred    5 months ago

Frey, Ellison and Walz all won re-election. Arradondo retired early. None of them has been held to account.

And for our critical thinkers asking who "they" are:


THAT"S WHO THEY ARE!

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
7  evilone    5 months ago

It doesn't matter how this gets spun politically. A man is still dead and another is still in prison.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
7.1  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  evilone @7    5 months ago
another is still in prison.

It appears wrongfully in prison.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
7.1.1  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @7.1    5 months ago

Because everyone should be equally treated with deadly force, and if their health status can’t handle it then fuck ‘em?  How about if the people we pay to protect us stop needlessly gambling with our lives?

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
7.1.2  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @7.1.1    5 months ago
Because everyone should be equally treated with deadly force,

According to the autopsy and body cam there was no evidence "deadly force" used.  Did you not read the article?

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
7.1.3  evilone  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @7.1    5 months ago
It appears wrongfully in prison.

If this really is 'new' evidence then we have a process for that.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
7.1.4  seeder  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @7.1.1    5 months ago
How about if the people we pay to protect us stop needlessly gambling with our lives?

How about you don't to something stupid and tempt fate? Don't be a fool.............It isn't the shooting range and the county fair. Cops aren't hunting people down for the fun of it. It is the direct and opposite reaction to a stupid action.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
7.1.5  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @7.1.2    5 months ago

Well, he’s dead after literally telling the murderer that they were killing him in real time.  No amount of spinning, wish thinking, and alternative facts can change that.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
7.1.6  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @7.1.4    5 months ago

People who do stupid shit deserve appropriate response.  A eight minute knee on the neck of a man who is actively pleading that they are dying is not an appropriate response for his stupid shit.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
7.1.7  seeder  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @7.1.6    5 months ago

Your opinion.........and he was stating he couldn't breathe prior to being restrained. May have had something to do with the fatal amount of fentanyl/methamphetamine in his body

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
7.1.8  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  evilone @7.1.3    5 months ago

If you paid attention to this from the start and not run with the narrative, this ISN'T new evidence as the article points out.  Maybe reading the article would help.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
7.1.9  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @7.1.5    5 months ago
Well, he’s dead after literally telling the murderer that they were killing him in real time.

The article states otherwise.  As well as a link in 2.1.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
7.1.10  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @7.1.7    5 months ago

Yes, it is my opinion that it is wrong to kneel on the neck of someone who is telling you that their death is imminent.  Mine and every fucking moral and ethical person on this planet.  [deleted]

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
7.1.11  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @7.1.10    5 months ago
Yes, it is my opinion that it is wrong to kneel on the neck of someone who is telling you that their death is imminent.

And nobody is disputing that.

Clearly we know what side you’re on.

The side that the evidence shows there was no knee on the neck or evidence thereof.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
7.1.12  sandy-2021492  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @7.1.2    5 months ago
According to the autopsy and body cam there was no evidence "deadly force" used.  Did you not read the article?

That's not true.

The county medical examiner who conducted the autopsy  listed Floyd’s death  as a  homicide  and determined that the cause was “cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression.”

...

“The top line of the cause of death is really what you think is the most important thing that precipitated the death. Other things that you think played a role in the death but were not direct causes get relegated to what’s known as the ‘other significant conditions’ part of the death certificate,” Baker   said at the trial , explaining why Floyd’s other health conditions weren’t included in his cause of death.

“So, the other significant conditions are things that played a role in the death, but didn’t directly cause the death,” Baker said. “So, for example, Mr. Floyd’s use of fentanyl did not cause the subdual or neck restraint; his heart disease did not cause the subdual or the neck restraint.”
 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
7.1.13  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  sandy-2021492 @7.1.12    5 months ago

Instead of relying on what somebody told somebody that told somebody that told you, a quick google search would have given you the autopsy report:

III No life-threatening injuries identified

A.  No facial, oral, musosal, or conjenctival pretechiae.

B.  No injuries of anterior muscles of neck or laryngeal structures.

C.  No scalp, soft tissue, skull, or brain injuries.

D.  No chest wall soft tissue injuries, rib fractures (other than a single rib fracture from CPR), vertebral column injuries, or visceral injuries

E.  Incision and subcutaneous dissection of the posterior and lateral neck, shoulders, back, flanks and buttocks negative for occult trauma.

Imagine that.  Nothing you claim in is in the autopsy report.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
7.1.14  seeder  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @7.1.13    5 months ago

From sandy's source....................

That’s not true. Floyd’s  autopsy  report hasn’t changed. It shows Floyd had fentanyl in his system when he died, but determined his death was caused by  action  taken by police that resulted in cardiac arrest.
 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
7.1.15  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @7.1.14    5 months ago

I'll go with the signed report over "fact checkers" playing a game of Telephone.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
7.1.16  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @7.1.11    5 months ago

A whole group of bystanders weren’t just witnessing this murder, they are on film telling Chauvin to get off of the man who was unresponsive.  Chauvin just stayed on top of him, even after he lost consciousness, not even attempting to provide aid - making him a murderer.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
7.1.17  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @7.1.16    5 months ago

So you honestly expect me to believe what some schmuck with a cell phone saw instead of what a licensed medical examiner saw.  Sorry.  not going to happen.  

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
7.1.18  Tessylo  replied to  evilone @7.1.3    5 months ago

It's not new.  Sounds like ignorant defense of the indefensible by some crackpot I'm sure.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
7.1.19  seeder  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @7.1.17    5 months ago
So you honestly expect me to believe what some schmuck with a cell phone saw

Think Michael Brown...............without the cell phone

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
7.1.20  seeder  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Tessylo @7.1.18    5 months ago
It's not new.

Correct. It has always been there. Some had their own version..............as we can see here

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
7.1.21  Tessylo  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @7.1.16    5 months ago

That's exactly what it is, plain and simple, murder.  This defense of a murderer is deplorable.  Victim blaming at it's finest.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
7.1.22  Tessylo  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @7.1.20    5 months ago

Nah, this is just victim blaming for the racist scumbag cop who murdered Floyd.

Same deal with Michael Brown.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
7.1.23  Tessylo  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @7.1.20    5 months ago

This is the alternate reality victim blaming version.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
7.1.24  Tessylo  replied to  sandy-2021492 @7.1.12    5 months ago

It appears that nothing in this 'article' is true - in one of the first paragraphs it says something about 'taking down trump' which has what to do with Chauvin murdering Floyd????????????

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
7.1.25  Tessylo  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @7.1.14    5 months ago

Chauvin still murdered Floyd despite the attempts by this garbage article about this garbage documentary which is merely victim blaming and excusing the murderer Chauvin.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
7.1.26  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @7.1.19    5 months ago

People making rash decisions based on wrong information and what others told them to believe.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
7.1.27  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Tessylo @7.1.22    5 months ago
Same deal with Michael Brown.

Exactly.  People running around with their OPINION of what happened denying the facts of what really happened.  Just like you are doing.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
7.1.28  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Tessylo @7.1.24    5 months ago
It appears that nothing in this 'article' is true

So prove them wrong.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
7.1.29  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @7.1.4    5 months ago
It isn't the shooting range and the county fair. Cops aren't hunting people down for the fun of it

Remember, the narrative was that was exactly what they accused law enforcement of doing during the riots.

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
7.1.30  evilone  replied to  evilone @7.1.3    5 months ago

The Supreme Court on Monday turned away an appeal by former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin, leaving in place his conviction for the  killing of George Floyd  in May 2020.

Related but not for what the article is claiming. It is an example of the process playing out. His lawyers can file a new appeal if they think it necessary citing whatever bullshit is being spun in the article.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
7.1.31  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @7.1.17    5 months ago

Some shmuck with a cell phone?  How about several witnesses with cell phones and eyeballs?  You take the phrase “who you gonna believe, me or your lying eyes” to a whole new level of retard.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
7.1.32  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @7.1.31    5 months ago

So you do honestly expect me to believe what some schmuck with a cell phone saw instead of what a licensed medical examiner saw.

Try as many times as you want.  Not changing the facts.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
7.1.33  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @7.1.32    5 months ago

[DELETED]

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
7.1.34  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  evilone @7.1.30    5 months ago

You mean the bullshit stuff like facts the original judge didn't allow to be presented?  Like, the actual cause of death, the authorized use of MRT?  

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
7.1.35  sandy-2021492  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @7.1.13    5 months ago

There's a link to the copy of the death certificate, Jeremy.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
7.1.36  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  sandy-2021492 @7.1.35    5 months ago
There's a link to the copy of the death certificate

In 7.1.13 is the link to the autopsy report.  

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
7.1.37  sandy-2021492  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @7.1.36    5 months ago

You conveniently left out the very first section of the autopsy report, which gives the cause of death as reported on the death certificate, because that's how death certificates work.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
7.1.38  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  sandy-2021492 @7.1.37    5 months ago

I didn't conveniently leave anything out, it's a link to the entire report.  You all claimed the cause of death was because of a "knee on the neck" and the autopsy report reflects no injuries to support that claim.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
7.1.39  sandy-2021492  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @7.1.38    5 months ago

Funny how the medical examiner agrees with us, isn't it?

And funny how the autopsy says things you claim it didn't say.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
7.1.40  seeder  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  sandy-2021492 @7.1.39    5 months ago
And funny how the autopsy says things you claim it didn't say.

Like what for instance?

 
 
 
goose is back
Sophomore Guide
7.1.41  goose is back  replied to  Tessylo @7.1.22    5 months ago
Same deal with Michael Brown.

You mean the Michael Brown who stole from a convenience store and assaulted the store owner?

You mean the Micheal Brown who assaulted a police officer in his car and attempted to take his firearm?

You mean the Micheal Brown who's case was looked at by Barrack Obama's attorney general and found no crime by the officer, that Michael Brown.  

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
7.1.42  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  sandy-2021492 @7.1.39    5 months ago

Like what.  And be specific.  

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
7.1.43  sandy-2021492  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @7.1.40    5 months ago

Jeremy said there was no evidence deadly force was used.

The medical examiner disagreed. 

"Deadly force" is any force that leads to death.  It does not necessarily mean beating a man or crushing his trachea. It can easily NOT result in trauma at the area where force is applied.   Positional asphyxiation is a thing.  People can literally die from being restrained in the wrong position for too long.  The position in which Floyd was restrained, in addition to pressure on EITHER his neck or torso, prevented adequate cardiopulmonary function.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
7.1.44  JohnRussell  replied to  sandy-2021492 @7.1.43    5 months ago

The seeded story and the film, and the book it is based on, are all "spins" on the facts for the purpose of exonerating the cops. There is nothing "new" there , it is just rehash with a spin. [[Deleted]]

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
7.1.45  seeder  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  JohnRussell @7.1.44    5 months ago
for the purpose of exonerating the cops.

Well I think we all know that isn't going to happen. I look at it as an informative documentary of what went on that day. That is where all of you naysayers have the whole reason for seeding this wrong. It isn't to clear anyone. Not my intent. What it is is the rest of the story. Unfortunate things happened that day and right or wrong, the officers are paying the price for letting it get so out of hand that they felt unusual tactics needed to be enlisted. And YES the tactic they used was IN the training manual so don't deal that shit hand again. Too many negative things happened. In the end, all are or have been paying that price. Including, unfortunately, the deceased. As stated elsewhere, Mr. Floyd became his own worst enemy that day.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
7.1.46  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  sandy-2021492 @7.1.43    5 months ago
Jeremy said there was no evidence deadly force was used. The medical examiner disagreed. 

If you payed ANY attention, you'd have seen I quoted the Autopsy report  I linked.  So far you're failing in your claim in 7.1.39.

The position in which Floyd was restrained, in addition to pressure on EITHER his neck or torso, prevented adequate cardiopulmonary function.

You neglected (or purposely omitted) that it was legal by MDP Policy and training.  You also leave out that EMS was called 36 seconds after Floyd was on the ground. 

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
7.1.47  Jasper2529  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @7.1.46    5 months ago
You neglected (or purposely omitted) that it was legal by MDP Policy and training.  You also leave out that EMS was called 36 seconds after Floyd was on the ground. 

It could be either one. Had deniers watched the documentary before opining, they would have known that your facts are included. 

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
7.1.48  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Jasper2529 @7.1.47    5 months ago

The problem is they have run for so long with the wrong information, that to recant it now would only mean embarrassment.  But at the same time, continuing to run with the wrong information is just as embarrassing.

Thanks for the link to the video. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
7.1.49  Tessylo  replied to  JohnRussell @7.1.44    5 months ago

Thank you John for providing the truth like A. Mac below.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
7.1.50  sandy-2021492  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @7.1.46    5 months ago
If you payed ANY attention, you'd have seen I quoted the Autopsy report  I linked.

While simultaneously denying its conclusions.

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Expert
7.1.51  MrFrost  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @7.1.26    5 months ago
and what others told them to believe.

Which is EXACTLY what this POS article is trying to do. 

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
7.1.52  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  sandy-2021492 @7.1.50    5 months ago

I didn't deny anything.  I just didn't go with your wrong information and narrative.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
7.1.53  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  MrFrost @7.1.51    5 months ago

You mean like the knee on the neck, he died from asphyxia and bullshit like that?

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
7.1.54  sandy-2021492  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @7.1.52    5 months ago

Of course you did.  Saying that there's no evidence deadly force was used denies the conclusions of the medical examiner, who stated that he died as a result of cardiopulmonary arrest as a result of neck compression and subdual.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
7.1.55  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  sandy-2021492 @7.1.54    5 months ago
Saying that there's no evidence deadly force was used denies the conclusions of the medical examiner,

I didn't deny it.  I quoted the medical examiners report.  Then I linked it for the rest of the information in 7.1.13.  Or did you miss that in your rants?  See if I were going to omit something why would I link the entire report?

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
7.1.56  sandy-2021492  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @7.1.55    5 months ago

Is the conclusion not part of the autopsy report?

You denied the medical examiner's conclusion, Jeremy.  If you express disagreement with it, you're denying it.  That's how English works. 

And while you're making fun of folks for believing "schmucks with cell phones", you'd have us accept your explanation of Floyd's cause of death despite the fact that 1) you didn't perform the autopsy and 2) you don't know how to perform an autopsy, anyway.  Is the medical examiner just a "schmuck with a scalpel?"

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
7.1.57  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  sandy-2021492 @7.1.56    5 months ago

So, let me get this straight,  you're upset because what I linked and quoted isn't what you want to hear. I never claimed anything outside of that link and I'm not going to.   

And while you're making fun of folks for believing "schmucks with cell phones"

Oh no!!!!!!  I said mean things!!!!!!  The horror!!!!

you'd have us accept your explanation of Floyd's cause of death despite the fact that 1) you didn't perform the autopsy and 2) you don't know how to perform an autopsy, anyway.  

The difference in all this, is that I linked the report.  Not what somebody heard from somebody that heard from somebody that heard from somebody then copied and pasted here on NT.  No, I'm not a Medical Examiner.  But I do know how to read and use comprehension skills and the ability to keep emotions separate when reading official reports.  So when a Medical Examiner states 

III No life-threatening injuries identified

A.  No facial, oral, musosal, or conjenctival pretechiae.

B.  No injuries of anterior muscles of neck or laryngeal structures.

C.  No scalp, soft tissue, skull, or brain injuries.

D.  No chest wall soft tissue injuries, rib fractures (other than a single rib fracture from CPR), vertebral column injuries, or visceral injuries

E.  Incision and subcutaneous dissection of the posterior and lateral neck, shoulders, back, flanks and buttocks negative for occult trauma.

I have no reason to doubt them.  And usually not swayed by the public opinion.  

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
7.1.58  sandy-2021492  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @7.1.57    5 months ago

Not upset. Amused at the double standard.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
7.1.59  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  sandy-2021492 @7.1.58    5 months ago

The double standard only exists in your head.  I never denied anything or tried to push what wasn't proven.  Those like yourself on the other hand...

 
 
 
Thomas
Senior Guide
7.1.60  Thomas  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @7.1.57    5 months ago

It is possible to kill someone without damaging the tissues listed. Therefore, the lack of injury and bruising is not proof that the George Floyd was not murdered. 

I find the contention that Chauvin did not have his knee on Floyd's neck preposterous. We can all see where his knee was for an extended time. 

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
7.1.61  sandy-2021492  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @7.1.59    5 months ago

We can all see your words, Jeremy.  Own them.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
7.1.62  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  sandy-2021492 @7.1.61    5 months ago

I do "own them".  Its your comprehension of them that is lacking.  

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
7.1.63  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Thomas @7.1.60    5 months ago
Therefore, the lack of injury and bruising is not proof that the George Floyd was not murdered. 

That would be something you need to take up with the Medical Examiner.  I'm sure all your years of experience in that field can persuade him that things aren't what they appear to be.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
7.1.64  sandy-2021492  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @7.1.63    5 months ago

Funny you say that, when you're the one who is denying the medical examiner's conclusions (and subsequently denying that you're denying them).

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
7.1.65  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  sandy-2021492 @7.1.64    5 months ago

I linked them.  Why would I have issue with something I linked?  Unless I'm not sticking to the narrative and THAT is rubbing you wrong.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
7.1.66  sandy-2021492  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @7.1.65    5 months ago

You linked them, denied the conclusions, then said Thomas has an issue with them, instead of yourself, when you have an obvious issue with them.  Do you have the experience as an ME that Thomas lacks?

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
7.1.67  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  sandy-2021492 @7.1.66    5 months ago

As I told you in 7.1.42:

Like what.  And be specific.  

To which you failed to do.  The only thing you have done is flap your lips.  So.  Lets try this again:

Like what.  And be specific.  

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
8  A. Macarthur    5 months ago

Liz Collin (New York Post) Miranda Devine … as a retired newspaper editor, I found it necessary to always consider SOURCES.

In 2002, Devine opined in the  Sydney Morning Herald  that the racial element of the  Sydney gang rapes  had been "airbrushed" out of the media coverage of the events. She stated that the victims alleged that prosecutors had intentionally "censored" their official statements to remove any mention of racially sensitive material. [11]  Devine has also been accused by  The Guardian  and  The Sydney Morning Herald  of promoting the  white genocide conspiracy theory  and has been described as pivotal in popularising the concept within Australian politics.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
8.1  seeder  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  A. Macarthur @8    5 months ago

Shoot that messenger!!!

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
8.1.1  evilone  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @8.1    5 months ago
Shoot that messenger!!!

If the messenger has a biased agenda then by all means, "Fire!"

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
8.1.2  seeder  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  evilone @8.1.1    5 months ago

Proof, prior to loading, should be SOP lest one gets charged with character assassination........

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
8.1.3  Jack_TX  replied to  evilone @8.1.1    5 months ago
If the messenger has a biased agenda then by all means, "Fire!"

You'll need more ammo.

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
8.1.4  evilone  replied to  Jack_TX @8.1.3    5 months ago
You'll need more ammo.

I guess all one needs to do is claim, "Fake news" or "Lamestream Media" or whatever bullshit the right comes up with for their "alternate facts"?

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
8.1.5  evilone  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @8.1.2    5 months ago
Proof, prior to loading...

That does generally help, but in these days of 'alternative facts' it doesn't often get anyone to pay anymore attention than without it. 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
8.1.6  Jack_TX  replied to  evilone @8.1.4    5 months ago
I guess all one needs to do is claim, "Fake news" or "Lamestream Media" or whatever bullshit the right comes up with for their "alternate facts"?

You're surely not overlooking all the bias at places like NBC or CNN or the absolutely raving bias at places like MSNBC, Huffington Post, or NYT.

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
8.1.7  evilone  replied to  Jack_TX @8.1.6    5 months ago
You're surely not overlooking all the bias at places like NBC or CNN or the absolutely raving bias at places like MSNBC, Huffington Post, or NYT.

I'm not. And I'm not overlooking those here that shout that out every day. I'm also not overlooking the current propensity of posting Opinion pieces as News. When the NYT went from pushing news articles to opinion pieces (and chastising their own journalists for pointing it out) I figured the whole system was heading to the shithouse. 

Confirmation bias is problem that propagandists are banking on.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
8.1.8  Jack_TX  replied to  evilone @8.1.7    5 months ago
I figured the whole system was heading to the shithouse. 

My father spent a 40 year career in the newspaper business.  He and all his buddies are rolling in their graves at the lack of impartiality from every direction these days.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
8.1.9  Tessylo  replied to  Jack_TX @8.1.8    5 months ago

jrSmiley_80_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
8.2  Greg Jones  replied to  A. Macarthur @8    5 months ago

IIt seems you're easily susceptible to brainwashing...

afb111923dAPR-800x0.jpg

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
8.3  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  A. Macarthur @8    5 months ago

So, let me get this straight.  You can't refute any part of the article so you want to attack the source? [deleted]

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Junior Quiet
9  afrayedknot    5 months ago

Bottom line…the death, the ensuing chaos, and this silly exercise could have and should have been prevented. If only those entrusted to ‘protect and serve’ had actually taken that responsibility to heart. 

 
 
 
Colour Me Free
Senior Quiet
9.1  Colour Me Free  replied to  afrayedknot @9    5 months ago

I am glad I read to the end before posting nearly the same comment - yours being much more eloquent than mine would have been.  : )

Chauvin was in the wrong, was it murder .. perhaps not, but his actions assisted in the end result .. Floyd's death.  Floyd very well may have dropped dead that day without assistance from Chauvin, but we will never know.

Peace....

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
9.1.1  Tessylo  replied to  Colour Me Free @9.1    5 months ago

It was murder.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
9.1.2  Tessylo  replied to  Colour Me Free @9.1    5 months ago

I don't think he would have dropped dead otherwise that day.  Kneeling on someone's neck for 9 minutes is murder, no matter how you try to equivocate.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
9.1.3  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Tessylo @9.1.2    5 months ago
Kneeling on someone's neck for 9 minutes

Never happened.  

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
9.1.4  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Tessylo @9.1.1    5 months ago

Prove it.  Autopsy found No life-threatening injuries.

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
9.1.5  A. Macarthur  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @9.1.4    5 months ago

No VISIBLE life threatening injuries! A restricted trachea could be the cause of asphyxiation without any resultant indications after the fact. The trauma of the officer’s act itself certainly contributed to respiratory failure. 

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
9.1.6  seeder  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  A. Macarthur @9.1.5    5 months ago

Where in the death cert autopsy was there ANYTHING about a restricted trachea?

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
9.1.7  seeder  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  A. Macarthur @9.1.5    5 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
9.1.8  JohnRussell  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @9.1.7    5 months ago

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
9.1.9  A. Macarthur  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @9.1.3    5 months ago

256

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
9.1.10  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  A. Macarthur @9.1.5    5 months ago
No VISIBLE life threatening injuries! 

Did you miss where the autopsy report says

III No life-threatening injuries identified
 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
9.1.11  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  A. Macarthur @9.1.9    5 months ago

Now show a screen shot from the body cam video.  

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
9.1.12  seeder  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @9.1.11    5 months ago

Not a chance............

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
9.1.13  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @9.1.12    5 months ago

I know it won't happen.  But if they are going to show screen shots from some schmucks phone then they can show screen shots from the body cam video.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
9.1.14  JohnRussell  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @9.1.13    5 months ago
But if they are going to show screen shots from some schmucks phone then they can show screen shots from the body cam video.

I saw all the body cam video of his arrest that is in the movie. Those videos dont justify what happened to Floyd. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
9.1.15  JohnRussell  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @9.1.13    5 months ago
But if they are going to show screen shots from some schmucks phone

Does a phone know it is owned by a schmuck? I thought all they do is take pictures and videos no matter who owns them. 

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
9.1.16  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  JohnRussell @9.1.14    5 months ago
Those videos dont justify what happened to Floyd.

You mean it doesn't fit what you have been told to believe?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
9.1.17  JohnRussell  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @9.1.16    5 months ago

I saw the body cam video that is in the movie. It doesnt justify what happened to Floyd. He resisted arrest the same way a protester at a peace rally resists arrest, by refusing to be moved. How in the world did this lead to kneeling on his neck for nine minutes? George Floyd got on these cops bad side with his constant talking and complaining. 

Kneeling on his neck when he was already handcuffed and down on the ground was sadism. 

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
9.1.18  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  JohnRussell @9.1.17    5 months ago
How in the world did this lead to kneeling on his neck for nine minutes?

According to the autopsy report there were no life-threatening injuries identified.  So you'll need to find another excuse.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
9.1.19  JohnRussell  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @9.1.18    5 months ago

I watched the body cam videos. There is nothing in there that justified kneeling on his neck for 8 or 9 minutes. THAT is the point.  It was sadism. 

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
9.1.20  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  JohnRussell @9.1.19    5 months ago
There is nothing in there that justified kneeling on his neck for 8 or 9 minutes.

Did you miss the "no life-threatening injuries identified" in the autopsy report?  

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
9.2  Jack_TX  replied to  afrayedknot @9    5 months ago
Bottom line…the death, the ensuing chaos, and this silly exercise could have and should have been prevented.

Absolutely.

If only those entrusted to ‘protect and serve’ had actually taken that responsibility to heart. 

I'm not sure it's fair to talk about "those" (plural).  I'm also not sure "hearts" have much to do with it.  

Chauvin didn't want to kill Floyd.  He didn't set out to injure him in any way.  He made a series of terribly egregious misjudgments, including using excessive restraining techniques and failing to believe Floyd's cries of distress.

So I don't buy the whole 'if only they cared more' line of thinking.  Yeah, one guy fucked up in a big way.  But the idea that these people as a group work overtime hours for bullshit pay in one of the most dangerous jobs in America while they simultaneously don't take "protect and serve to heart" is a lot of nonsense.

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Junior Quiet
9.2.1  afrayedknot  replied to  Jack_TX @9.2    5 months ago

Well said, Jack. 

The fact remains too many suspects or perpetrators are injured or tragically killed in the process of being apprehended, approached, or even while in custody. It is sadly another uniquely and unfortunate American anomaly.

There cannot be too thorough a hiring process, too expansive a training program, and a less apologetic union presence.

Let us ensure our right to due process is respected…whenever, wherever and whoever is involved. Appreciate your input. 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
9.2.2  Jack_TX  replied to  afrayedknot @9.2.1    5 months ago
The fact remains too many suspects or perpetrators are injured or tragically killed in the process of being apprehended, approached, or even while in custody. It is sadly another uniquely and unfortunate American anomaly.

I agree.  I do think that's every LEO's 3rd worst nightmare, behind getting killed themselves or losing a fellow officer.  Unfortunately, people being arrested don't always cooperate.   I do believe we could improve that situation with training and additional support, but I also understand that all gets expensive.  But if it was an easy problem, it would have been solved by now.  

 
 
 
Colour Me Free
Senior Quiet
9.2.3  Colour Me Free  replied to  afrayedknot @9.2.1    5 months ago
Let us ensure our right to due process is respected…whenever, wherever and whoever is involved.

Got a question .. 

Do you think civilians should be more involved in the hiring of / firing of officers?   Unions are a powerful bulwark that for the most part has every officers back.  The more blatant offenses involving an officer's action are dealt with 'ish, but how many slip through the cracks?

I am pro cop .. when I was a very young 'adult' I lived with a cop 17 years my senior .. I got to see the world of law enforcement from a different perspective .. but even in a smaller town/city there are non-rule following officers [which other officers have a problem with], and they can get promoted to their highest level of incompetence which usually eventually means they end up in supervisory roles...

Curious minds need input  : )

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Junior Quiet
9.2.4  afrayedknot  replied to  Colour Me Free @9.2.3    5 months ago

“I am pro cop ..”

As am I.

Cannot imagine heading to work knowing that it my be for last time. And the overwhelming majority do it well.

However, when the inevitable does happen, I think every judicial district should have a board in place with stakeholders from the community charged with reviewing the incident, with all involved given the opportunity to testify before any recommendations are referred for prosecution. Dash cams and body cams should be mandatory and provided by the state, if they aren’t already, for the protection and confirmation of the evidence. The state should also provide continuing and comprehensive in-service training toward incident prevention and de-escalation.

No one, no one…wants another tragedy.   Time and money and energy is always better spent being proactive. One only need peruse this seed to see how counterproductive it is being reactionary. 

Putting ‘soapbox’ away for the night.

…peace all around…

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
9.2.5  JohnRussell  replied to  Jack_TX @9.2    5 months ago
failing to believe Floyd's cries of distress.

thats a pretty big mistake

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
9.2.6  George  replied to  afrayedknot @9.2.4    5 months ago
The state should also provide continuing and comprehensive in-service training toward incident prevention and de-escalation.

I agree that continued training is a noble pursuit, and should be mandatory for all police officers, but one must also remember that parents had 18 years at a minimum to train their children to not be douchebag thugs who can't follow simple instructions from law enforcement officers. the parents in most of these cases failed at this simple task.

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Junior Quiet
9.2.7  afrayedknot  replied to  George @9.2.6    5 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Colour Me Free
Senior Quiet
9.2.8  Colour Me Free  replied to  afrayedknot @9.2.4    5 months ago

Thanks for your input, I cannot argue with you, as you covered all bases.

P.s...  Soapbox loves a good run, take her out anytime - just remember to lock the stall things can get crazy when she gets out 'unsupervised.'   : )

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
9.2.9  Jack_TX  replied to  JohnRussell @9.2.5    5 months ago
thats a pretty big mistake

Huge.  No doubt.  But still a mistake. He didn't set out to kill George Floyd, and if he had realized what he was doing in time he would have stopped.

I don't suggest he escape the consequences for his actions, but I do think it is wholly inaccurate to describe LEOs generally as indifferent to their oaths.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
9.2.10  JohnRussell  replied to  Jack_TX @9.2.9    5 months ago

I'm sure he didnt intend to kill Floyd, he knew the bystanders were videoing it and it would have been suicidal, so to speak, for him to cause Floyd's death under those circumstances. 

His problem is that Floyd did die, and Chauvin had no reason or justification for kneeling on the man's neck. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
9.2.11  Tessylo  replied to  Jack_TX @9.2.9    5 months ago

He had over 9 minutes to realize he was killing Floyd.  [deleted]

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
9.2.12  Tessylo  replied to  Tessylo @9.2.11    5 months ago

[Meta]

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
9.2.13  Jack_TX  replied to  JohnRussell @9.2.10    5 months ago
I'm sure he didnt intend to kill Floyd, he knew the bystanders were videoing it and it would have been suicidal, so to speak, for him to cause Floyd's death under those circumstances. 

Exactly.  Agree 100%

His problem is that Floyd did die, and Chauvin had no reason or justification for kneeling on the man's neck. 

Obviously Mr. Floyd passed, which was very sad.

As far as "no justification", I don't know enough about what standard operating procedure was or how these guys were trained or any number of other factors that may have influenced the outcome of the situation. 

You may be right, there may have been no justification at all, but I think that's obviously easier to see in hindsight.  In any case, his better judgment surely should have kicked in before it did.

There appears to be some inconsistency between what police officials said at trial and what is actually the case with regard to training and operating procedures.  It's not hard to imagine public officials panicking and throwing other people under the bus to save their own necks.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
9.2.14  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Tessylo @9.2.12    5 months ago

Life is like a penis... often hard for no real reason.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
9.2.15  seeder  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @9.2.14    5 months ago

jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif     jrSmiley_13_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
9.2.16  Tessylo  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @9.2.14    5 months ago

Tasteless and low class and not funny.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
9.2.17  seeder  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Tessylo @9.2.16    5 months ago

You would know all about that.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
9.2.18  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Tessylo @9.2.16    5 months ago
Tasteless and low class and not funny.

Well, you’ve got me there, I never tasted one.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
9.2.19  Tessylo  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @9.2.17    5 months ago

[]

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
9.3  Nerm_L  replied to  afrayedknot @9    5 months ago
Bottom line…the death, the ensuing chaos, and this silly exercise could have and should have been prevented. If only those entrusted to ‘protect and serve’ had actually taken that responsibility to heart. 

At one point, George Floyd was inside the squad car.  Chauvin or one of the other cops did not take Floyd out of the squad car.   Floyd fought his way out.

Bottom line ...  If Floyd had stayed inside the squad car none of this would have happened.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
9.3.1  JohnRussell  replied to  Nerm_L @9.3    5 months ago
Chauvin or one of the other cops did not take Floyd out of the squad car.   Floyd fought his way out.

===============

Chauvin "went to the passenger side and tried to get Mr. Floyd into the car from that side and [Officers] Lane and Kueng assisted. The defendant pulled Mr. Floyd out of the passenger side of the squad car at 8:19:38 p.m. and Mr. Floyd went to the ground face down and still handcuffed."

Floyd was pinned to the ground for more than eight minutes, starting at 8:19 until paramedics arrived. He appeared to go unconscious during that time and was pronounced dead at 9:25 p.m.

New video shows Minneapolis officers appear to struggle with George Floyd in back of patrol car (nbcnews.com)
 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
9.3.2  JohnRussell  replied to  JohnRussell @9.3.1    5 months ago
Chauvin or one of the other cops did not take Floyd out of the squad car.   Floyd fought his way out.

There were four cops on the immediate scene and George Floyd was handcuffed behind his back.  Four cops could not control a handcuffed man to the extent that they had to put him face down on the pavement and then kneel on his neck? 

To Chauvin, Floyd was an animal who got what he deserved. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
9.3.3  Tessylo  replied to  JohnRussell @9.3.2    5 months ago

That's it exactly John yet still people endlessly defend this indefensible murder.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
9.3.4  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  JohnRussell @9.3.2    5 months ago
Four cops could not control a handcuffed man to the extent that they had to put him face down on the pavement and then kneel on his neck?

You, failed to acknowledge what led up to him being placed on the ground.  When you decide to be honest, we might be able to have a conversation

 
 
 
Colour Me Free
Senior Quiet
9.4  Colour Me Free  replied to  afrayedknot @9    5 months ago

Hey Razing .. have you watched the documentary?

I just watched it, def worth watching. When the trial was in progress, I watched it in its entirety - Wish I had known then what was brought to light in this video - actually that should read 'I wish the trial would have represented more accurately the complete picture.'

I do still believe that Chauvin's actions expedited the death of George Floyd, yet I no longer believe the sum of the charges brought against him were warranted .. if I remember correctly Chauvin was charged with 3 different counts, 2 counts of murder and unintentional manslaughter [found guilty of all three] - I now believe that the unintentional manslaughter charge should have been what the jury deliberated on, not all three charges.  The other 3 officers probably should not be in prison.

Just my thoughts... I do not take changing my mind lightly, and I do not do it often - sort of stubborn that way, but in this case the charges were overkill. 

Okay, now I am putting Soapbox back in the stall....

Peace....

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
9.4.1  JohnRussell  replied to  Colour Me Free @9.4    5 months ago

What is the complete picture you think the trial didnt show? 

 
 
 
Colour Me Free
Senior Quiet
9.4.2  Colour Me Free  replied to  JohnRussell @9.4.1    5 months ago

First tell me ...  Did you watch the trial?  Did you watch the documentary?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
9.4.3  JohnRussell  replied to  Colour Me Free @9.4.2    5 months ago

I watched parts of the trial, I didnt watch all of it.  I watched all of the movie that dealt with Floyd's arrest. 

If you can, tell me what justified kneeling on Floyds neck? 

This question is also connected to the charges brought against the other officers. 

As I see it, the justification that the cops assert is that "Floyd was being a pain the ass to us and by putting him on the ground and kneeling on him we made it plain we didnt like that". 

 
 
 
Colour Me Free
Senior Quiet
9.4.4  Colour Me Free  replied to  JohnRussell @9.4.3    5 months ago
I watched all of the movie that dealt with Floyd's arrest. 

So, you did watch 'The Fall of Minneapolis'?

As I see it, the justification that the cops assert is that "Floyd was being a pain the ass to us and by putting him on the ground and kneeling on him we made it plain we didnt like that". 

So, you did not watch 'The Fall of Minneapolis'?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
9.4.5  JohnRussell  replied to  Colour Me Free @9.4.4    5 months ago

As I said, I watched the beginning of it that was nothing but the bodycam footage. About 20 minutes. 

Tell us why kneeling on Floyds neck was justified.

 
 
 
Colour Me Free
Senior Quiet
9.4.6  Colour Me Free  replied to  JohnRussell @9.4.5    5 months ago

The documentary is an hour and a half long. .. if you do not watch it, you do not have all of the information. 

There is never justification for anyone to put a knee on the neck of another individual, that said I no longer feel that Chauvin committed murder - he is guilty of manslaughter.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
9.4.7  JohnRussell  replied to  Colour Me Free @9.4.6    5 months ago

There is nothing new in this movie that wasnt brought up at the trial. 

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
9.4.8  seeder  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  JohnRussell @9.4.7    5 months ago

How do you know since you admitted “I watched parts of the trial”?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
9.4.9  JohnRussell  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @9.4.8    5 months ago

Tell me what you think is new.

Then we will see who is right or wrong. 

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
9.4.10  seeder  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  JohnRussell @9.4.9    5 months ago

You obviously can’t be the judge if you did not watch the whole thing and rather depended upon “analysis” from your “sources”. Sorry, doesn’t work that way. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
9.4.11  JohnRussell  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @9.4.10    5 months ago

You seem to think there is new information in the movie that exonerates Chauvin and the others. What is it? 

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
9.4.12  seeder  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  JohnRussell @9.4.11    5 months ago

Things are not always what they seem. Try again.

I'm saying there is, like in all cases such as this, a lesson to be learned. Don't fuck with a cop when he asks/tells/commands you do something. You know, something as simple as rolling down your fucking window, or stepping out of the fucking vehicle (to quote the video). To quote Sue Myrick, "If you're not doing something wrong, what's your problem".

And spare us the "if this was a white guy it never would have gone down like that" bullshit. It happens. You are so hung on race that you can't see the forest for the trees.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
9.4.13  sandy-2021492  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @9.4.12    5 months ago

How very authoritarian.

And it doesn't necessarily keep one from getting shot.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
9.4.14  seeder  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  sandy-2021492 @9.4.13    5 months ago

Did you read the part where the 9-1-1 call reported a man with a gun? Granted it was a toy truck but the cop was full of adrenaline thinking he was going into a hot situation.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
9.4.15  seeder  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  sandy-2021492 @9.4.13    5 months ago
How very authoritarian.

Let me know how you come out on your next traffic stop, when you do just the opposite of what the LEO is asking you to do. You know. Kind of a humanitarian public service to our fellow members.

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
9.4.16  George  replied to  sandy-2021492 @9.4.13    5 months ago

[removed]

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
9.4.17  sandy-2021492  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @9.4.14    5 months ago

Did you read the part where the cop didn't even shoot the guy whom he thought had a gun, but the caregiver who had his hands in the air?

Just doing what you're told doesn't necessarily keep you safe.

The cop was full of adrenaline?  So what?  We expect them to be able to handle those situations with good judgment, and not go in guns blaring, shooting first (sometimes shooting completely innocent victims), and asking questions later.  If people keep excusing them for shooting innocent victims, they will naturally not be trusted to not shoot innocent victims, and nobody will follow their orders.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
9.4.18  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  sandy-2021492 @9.4.13    5 months ago

Did you miss the 6th paragraph that states:

Kinsey was assisting Arnaldo Rios-Soto, who had wandered from MacTown Panther Group Homes, when police responded to a 911 call about a suicidal man with a gun.

Or did you just see a headline and run with it?

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
9.4.19  sandy-2021492  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @9.4.15    5 months ago

So, no real abuttal for the FACT that doing what you're told doesn't always keep you safe from cops, other than snark?  Noted.

Keep defending cops who shoot innocent bystanders because they're too hotheaded to stand down, and then wonder why people don't trust or obey cops.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
9.4.20  sandy-2021492  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @9.4.18    5 months ago

Did you miss the part where the innocent man who was shot was trying to explain the situation to cops, who shot, anyway?

Do you want cops who can't shoot straight or judge when shooting is necessary to be armed?  Seems unwise to me.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
9.4.21  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  sandy-2021492 @9.4.20    5 months ago

So no you didn't see the part I quoted from your article.  Thanks for the verification.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
9.4.22  sandy-2021492  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @9.4.21    5 months ago

No, I read and responded to it.

The cop shot when they shouldn't have, and shot the wrong guy, anyway.

Did doing as he was told keep the guy who was shot safe?

It did not.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
9.4.23  seeder  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  sandy-2021492 @9.4.19    5 months ago

Guess you missed this part in your article.............

Aledda, a then four-year member of the North Miami police force and a SWAT team member, said he thought Kinsey's life was in danger   and was trying to shoot Rios-Soto but missed .

He was trying to shoot the other guy NOT the guy doing the explaining. So Rios-Soto must have still been doing something to provoke the reaction.

You're on the wrong side of this one.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
9.4.24  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  sandy-2021492 @9.4.22    5 months ago
Did doing as he was told keep the guy who was shot safe?

I seriously doubt he was told to throw his hands in the air and talk.  But then again, there is the the quote in 9.4.23

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
9.4.25  JohnRussell  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @9.4.12    5 months ago

George Floyd was handcuffed , behind his back, immediately after he stepped out of his car.  He made no aggressive or questionable moves toward the police officers. The only thing he was doing was objecting to being arrested. 

Don't fuck with a cop when he asks/tells/commands you do something. You know, something as simple as rolling down your fucking window, or stepping out of the fucking vehicle (to quote the video).

You seem to be saying, and in fairness to you there are many others that think the same, that if someone doesnt jump when a cop says how high, if they subsequently DIE at police hands they caused their own death.  That is possible under certain circumstances, but this wasnt one of them. From the very start of this encounter George Floyd was clearly in some form of mental distress. Maybe it was as simple as he was high and paranoid, maybe it was because he was afraid of going to jail. Maybe it was because he actually didnt know why he was being arrested  (he was arrested for passing a fake 20 dollar bill. Almost no one is arrested for passing a fake 20 dollar bill, as the store owner admitted. One reason for that is it is entirely possible that a person who passes a fake 20 dollar bill doesnt know it is fake.) 

Other than the first few seconds, when he doesnt immediately put his hands  on the steering wheel, Floyd does absolutely nothing to indicate he might be a threat to the cops. His "crime" in this situation is that he was mentally frantic and agitated and couldnt stop talking. And when they tried to push him into the squad car he resisted the push. So he was annoying these cops , lets say getting on their bad side. And for that he died. 

George Floyd did nothing to deserve being placed face down on the ground with a knee on his neck. Oh wait, he annoyed and agitated the cops. That must be it. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
9.4.26  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @9.4.25    5 months ago

Maybe Floyd shouldn't have been doing what he was doing.

The time to "object"(resist) to your arrest isn't when cops are trying to arrest you. As someone familiar with law enforcement, Floyd should have known better.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
9.4.27  JohnRussell  replied to  Texan1211 @9.4.26    5 months ago
The time to "object"(resist) to your arrest isn't when cops are trying to arrest you. As someone familiar with law enforcement, Floyd should have known better.

Doesnt matter. Floyd was no threat to these cops or anybody else. They could have easily at least tried to calm him down and see if he would get in the squad car on his own, but they didnt even try. 

 
 
 
Colour Me Free
Senior Quiet
9.4.28  Colour Me Free  replied to  JohnRussell @9.4.7    5 months ago
There is nothing new in this movie that wasnt brought up at the trial.

Explain to me how you know this, since you watched neither in its entirety?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
9.4.29  JohnRussell  replied to  Colour Me Free @9.4.28    5 months ago

Give us an example of a fact about the arrest of George Floyd that is in the movie but was not brought up at the trial. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
9.4.30  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @9.4.27    5 months ago
Doesnt matter.

Sez you.

Calm him down?

How? Why was he upset--because he got caught?

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
9.4.31  seeder  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  JohnRussell @9.4.27    5 months ago
see if he would get in the squad car on his own, but they didnt even try.

You watched a different film than I. He insisted that he had had Covid, that he couldn't breathe, and was claustrophobic. There was no way he was going to get into that vehicle. Bullshit excuses aside, he was more than likely afraid that if he did get in he was definitely headed back to jail.

BTW, nothing seems to have been discussed about the two others in the vehicle when approached. If you watch and listen, they started to walk away during the struggle. They were all sitting in the PARKED vehicle for several minutes before and during the officers approaching. Wonder what they were doing prior to being engaged? Perhaps some drugs? A drug deal? Why leave........and perhaps that is why he was hesitant to open the window. The evidence hadn't been completely hidden. Floyd took his time raising his right hand to the steering wheel as it was at his side and in front of the seat.

Matters not at this point, obviously but makes one wonder if, perhaps, the jury wasn't intimidated by the nature of the case and KNEW that if they didn't find a guilty verdict, there would be hell to pay in the streets and, more than likely, the chance personal harm would come to them and theirs.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
9.4.32  JohnRussell  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @9.4.31    5 months ago
Murder of George Floyd (wikiwand.com)

At 8:13, [15] : 2:30    Kueng and Lane told Floyd he was under arrest and walked him to their police car across the street. [18]   The officers then leaned him against the car's door. [15] : 2:42  [67] : 3:00    Floyd told the officers that he was not resisting, but that he was recovering from   COVID-19 , that he was   claustrophobic   and had   anxiety , and that he did not want to sit in the car. [17] [18] [67] : 3:10  [21]   While Kueng and Lane attempted to put him in the car, Floyd begged them not to, repeatedly saying " I can't breathe " and offering to lie on the ground instead. [18] [21] [82]   A   Minneapolis Park Police   officer arrived and guarded Floyd's vehicle (across the street by the restaurant) and the two people who had been in it with Floyd. [15] : 2:53  [83]

At 8:17, Chauvin and Thao arrived in a third police car, joining Kueng and Lane, [15] : 3:32  [67] : 3:27    with Chauvin assuming command. [17]   He asked if Floyd was going to jail, and Kueng replied that he had been arrested for forgery. [75]   Floyd said, "I can't fucking breathe" twice. [80]   Cup Foods security footage shows Kueng struggling with Floyd for at least a minute around 8:18 in the driver's side backseat while Thao watches. [15] : 3:54  [67] : 3:49    According to   The New York Times , at 8:19, Chauvin pulled Floyd across the backseat from the driver's side to the passenger side. [67] : 3:56    Then, according to   NPR , Floyd exited the vehicle while being pulled out by police [21]   and falling to the pavement. [16]

While Floyd lay on his chest with his cheek to the ground, Chauvin knelt on his neck. [21]   Floyd stopped moving around 8:20, though he was still conscious. [15] : 4:10  Multiple witnesses began to film the encounter, and their videos circulated widely on the internet. [16] [67] : 4:06    At 8:20, a witness across the street began recording a video showing Chauvin kneeling on Floyd's neck, Kueng applying pressure to Floyd's torso, and Lane applying pressure to Floyd's legs, while Thao stood nearby. [15] : 4:13  [67] : 4:11  [16]   This witness stopped filming when one of the officers ordered him to leave. [67] : 4:35    Also at 8:20, a second person, standing near the Cup Foods entrance, began recording the incident. [15] : 4:26  [67] : 5:08  [42]   Floyd can be heard repeatedly saying "I can't breathe", "Please", and "Mama"; [16] [15] : 4:44  [67] : 4:28    Lane then asked for an ambulance for Floyd, "for one bleeding from the mouth". [80]   Floyd repeated at least 16 times that he could not breathe. [67] : 5:46    At one point a witness said: "You got him down. Let him breathe." [84]   After Floyd said, "I'm about to die", Chauvin told him to "relax". [85]   An officer asked Floyd, "What do you want?"; Floyd answered, "Please, the knee in my neck, I can't breathe." [85]

At approximately 8:22, the officers called for an ambulance on a non-emergency basis, escalating the call to emergency status a minute later. [15] : 4:50  [67] : 4:42    Chauvin continued to kneel on Floyd's neck. [67] : 5:15    A passerby yelled to Floyd, "Well, get up, get in the car, man", and Floyd, still handcuffed and face down on the pavement, responded, "I can't", while Chauvin's knee remained on his neck. [67] : 5:26    Floyd said, "My stomach hurts, my neck hurts, everything hurts", requested water, [86]   and begged, "Don't kill me". [87]   One witness pointed out that Floyd was bleeding from the nose. [88]   Another told the officers that Floyd was "not even resisting arrest right now". [42]   Thao countered that Floyd was "talking, he's fine"; a witness replied that Floyd "ain't fine   ... Get him off the ground   ... You could have put him in the car by now. He's not resisting arrest or nothing. You're enjoying it. Look at you. Your body language explains it." [88] [89]   As Floyd continued to cry for help, Thao said to witnesses: "This is why you don't do drugs, kids." [90]

By 8:25, Floyd appeared unconscious, and bystanders confronted the officers about his condition. Chauvin pulled out mace to keep bystanders away as Thao moved between them and Chauvin. [91] [92]   Bystanders repeatedly yelled that Floyd was "not responsive right now" and urged the officers to check his pulse. [15] : 5:22  [67] : 6:53  [16]   Kueng checked Floyd's wrist but found no pulse; [16]   the officers did not attempt to provide Floyd with medical assistance while he was on the ground. [67] : 6:46    According to the criminal complaint against Chauvin, Lane asked Chauvin twice if they should move Floyd onto his side, [93]   and Chauvin said no. [67] : 7:02 
 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
9.4.33  JohnRussell  replied to  JohnRussell @9.4.32    5 months ago

The cops fucked up.

We always tell regular people that even if they make a mistake regarding law, they have to suffer the consequences. The cops here made big mistakes and are suffering the consequences. 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
9.4.35  Jack_TX  replied to  JohnRussell @9.4.33    5 months ago
The cops fucked up.

I think that's fair.

But you've already said you don't think Floyd's killing was intentional.  I dont know all the legal intricacies, but doesn't that make it manslaughter instead of murder?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
9.4.36  JohnRussell  replied to  Jack_TX @9.4.35    5 months ago
I dont know all the legal intricacies, but doesn't that make it manslaughter instead of murder?

I dont know the legal intricacies either. I presume the prosecutors considered manslaughter. 

Maybe Chauvin got higher charges because he ignored all the signs, including witnesses who said Floyd looked like he was in very bad shape. 

If they had him charged with manslaughter I would have been ok with that. That is up to the prosecutors and the judge. 

 
 
 
Colour Me Free
Senior Quiet
9.4.37  Colour Me Free  replied to  JohnRussell @9.4.29    5 months ago
Give us an example of a fact about the arrest of George Floyd that is in the movie but was not brought up at the trial.

Who is us?  John, I have not been talking about the arrest of George Floyd, I have been talking about the charges levied at a police officer that I no longer think he is guilty of. Chauvin was convicted of second-degree unintentional murder, third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter ... I think second-degree manslaughter is a just charge. The other two charges were overkill and to prove a point.

The arrest of George Floyd is on George Floyd .. trying to pass off phony money, the 'crying don't shoot me' rather than listening - lieing about not being on / haven taken any drugs .. his resistance / obstructing a police officer while performing his/her duties .. Floyd was a big dude and noncompliance is a crime in and of itself, trust me I learned it firsthand.  Floyd should never had died at the hand of a police officer; his crimes did not meet the requirements of the death penalty ... but everything escalated due to Floyd's actions, Chauvin made serious errors and a man died at his hands ... Hopefully officers will now be getting more training on de-escalating a situation such as the case with George Floyd. 

I watched the video of George Floyd's take down many times .. 'we' were shown what fit a narrative that George Floyd was murdered.  The city was burning because of that video before the autopsy results were in. Dr. Baden never examined Floyd's body; I have no clue how he came to the conclusions he did.

Did you know the city announced a settlement with George Floyd's family on the same day the jury was being selected in Chauvin's trial? .......... did you know the gal from the fire department /paramedic [not positive of her job title] filmed with her phone, told police what they should do, but never called 911, until after the ambulance picked up Floyd. I watched the trial and that detail slipped past me, Chauvin's attorney asked.  I would have been on my phone if not calling 911, I would have at least been calling my squad buddies trying to figure out what was taking them so long to arrive on scene... I have no clue what made her or the martial arts guy an expert witness - albeit he was familiar with various holds due to martial arts training and both of them were witnesses.  Not positive if martial arts guy called 911 or not, I may have to research that.

I reiterate that the death of George Floyd was expedited by Derek Chauvin, he caused his death, I cannot / do not argue that point - but I no longer believe that Floyd was murdered by Derek Chauvin.

 I think it is also important to remember 2 officers at the scene had been on the job like a day .. they were puppies in training, dazed and confuses probably understates where their heads were at.

Sorry for writing a book!  I am once again returning Soapbox safely to her stall.

Peace...

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
9.4.38  seeder  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Colour Me Free @9.4.37    5 months ago

jrSmiley_28_smiley_image.gif     jrSmiley_28_smiley_image.gif     jrSmiley_28_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
9.4.39  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Colour Me Free @9.4.37    5 months ago

jrSmiley_13_smiley_image.gif  jrSmiley_13_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
9.4.40  JohnRussell  replied to  Colour Me Free @9.4.37    5 months ago

I'm going to say one more thing and then I'm going to leave this thread goodbye. You can have tyhe last word with me if you want. 

I think Chauvin would only have gotten manslaughter except for his actions after he was kneeling on Floyds neck. As one of the bystanders yelled to him "you look like you are enjoying it." People were telling him that Floyd was in distress and he didnt get off his neck. Floyd yelled out 16 times , according to wikipedia, that he couldnt breathe, while Chauvin was on his neck. Thats an average of twice a minute. That is something Chauvin absolutely should have paid attention to. At one point Floyd said "you're killing me" and Chauvin told him to stop talking. 

I dont know if any of that legally adds up to murder, but it seems possible that it did to the prosecutors. 

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
9.4.41  seeder  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  JohnRussell @9.4.40    5 months ago
That is something Chauvin absolutely should have paid attention to

One hole in that theory (if one can be pointed out), Floyd said he couldn't breathe SEVERAL times prior to the ground fiasco as well as I had Covid and I am claustrophobic. Ever hear of crying wolf and how once you do it so many times, it's hard to take it seriously.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
9.4.42  JohnRussell  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @9.4.41    5 months ago
Floyd said he couldn't breathe SEVERAL times prior to the ground fiasco as well as I had Covid and I am claustrophobic. Ever hear of crying wolf and how once you do it so many times, it's hard to take it seriously.

You've got to be kidding. That was one of the weakest arguments in the movie. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
9.4.43  Tessylo  replied to  sandy-2021492 @9.4.17    5 months ago

Always the defense of the indefensible, it's so tiresome.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
9.4.44  seeder  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  JohnRussell @9.4.42    5 months ago

Opinions do vary

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
9.4.45  Tessylo  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @9.4.23    5 months ago

No, you are on the wrong side of this one, you just refuse to admit it and have to have the last word also.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
9.4.46  Tessylo  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @9.4.44    5 months ago

The truth doesn't

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
9.4.47  seeder  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Tessylo @9.4.45    5 months ago

I am not on the wrong side. Perhaps if you read past your pal's responses you would see that the gentleman waving his arms was shot accidentally by the cop trying to shoot the other man. Let me help you out even though you will still deny it in your usual fashion and predictable MO.

Aledda, a then four-year member of the North Miami police force and a SWAT team member,  said he thought Kinsey's life was in danger      and was trying to shoot Rios-Soto but missed  .

He was trying to shoot the other guy NOT the guy doing the explaining. So Rios-Soto must have still been doing something to provoke the reaction.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
9.4.48  Tessylo  replied to  JohnRussell @9.4.32    5 months ago

You know it makes me want to cry reading the description "I can't breathe", "please" and "mama" and all of the other pleading for his life and that everything hurts and "don't kill me" as those other thugs stood by and this sick fuck was obviously enjoying it - I don't care what the hell anyone says, this is murder goddamn it.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
9.4.49  Tessylo  replied to  Colour Me Free @9.4.37    5 months ago

It's MURDER.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
9.4.50  Tessylo  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @9.4.47    5 months ago

Yes, you are on the wrong side.

Have the last word.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
9.4.51  Tessylo  replied to  JohnRussell @9.4.40    5 months ago

It does indeed add up to murder.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
9.4.52  seeder  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Tessylo @9.4.50    5 months ago

Read the fucking report I posted for your edification.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
9.4.53  Tessylo  replied to  JohnRussell @9.4.42    5 months ago

Hard to take it seriously - that someone saying that they can't breathe and is pleading for their life???????????????????????????????????????????

WTF????????????????????????????????????????????????

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
9.4.54  Tessylo  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @9.4.52    5 months ago

No

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
9.4.55  Tessylo  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @9.4.52    5 months ago

So you're victim blaming.  Got it.  Like with Floyd and Brown.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
9.4.56  seeder  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Tessylo @9.4.53    5 months ago

He had done it several times already to no avail and was obviously unfortunately deemed bullshit as such.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
9.4.57  seeder  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Tessylo @9.4.55    5 months ago

Not victim blaming (another of your favorites). It was the cops fault for missing his intended target and hitting the innocent one. Get a fucking clue. He didn't intend to hit the one he did. FFS read and comprehend.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
9.4.58  Tessylo  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @9.4.56    5 months ago

[]

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
9.4.59  JohnRussell  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @9.4.44    5 months ago

I cant remember, did Chauvin say in defense at his trial that he thought Floyd was crying wolf?  I doubt it, because it would have went over with the jury like a lead balloon. 

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
9.4.60  seeder  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  JohnRussell @9.4.59    5 months ago

Irrelevant and you are correct. He would have never admitted it in court even though he may have thought it at the time. Outcome being what it is, it is a moot point as Floyd still would have died no matter what Chauvin thought.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
9.4.61  Tessylo  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @9.4.60    5 months ago

[]

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
9.4.62  sandy-2021492  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @9.4.23    5 months ago

He was trying to shoot the unarmed autistic guy and missed?

You think that's a defense?

No, I read it.  I see it as further proof of his bad judgment.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
9.4.63  seeder  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  sandy-2021492 @9.4.62    5 months ago

Yes it’s a fucking defense. Turn off your virtue signaling button. He didn’t know at the time it was a fucking toy truck and not a goddamned weapon 

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
9.4.64  sandy-2021492  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @9.4.63    5 months ago

It's disturbing that shooting the wrong guy when he didn't need to shoot anybody at all is somehow a defense in anyone's opinion.

It's an excellent reason to reject authoritarianism, in my opinion.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
9.4.65  Tessylo  replied to  sandy-2021492 @9.4.64    5 months ago

[]

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
9.4.66  Tessylo  replied to  sandy-2021492 @9.4.62    5 months ago

Yes, he sees it as a goddamned fucking defense.  Doesn't make a goddamned bit of fucking sense, but that's what he's doing.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
9.4.67  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Tessylo @9.4.66    5 months ago

Well said, Tessylo, fucking eh.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
9.4.68  seeder  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  sandy-2021492 @9.4.64    5 months ago

The cop thought someone was in danger and shot. Hope you are never in that situation. [Deleted]

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
9.4.69  seeder  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  sandy-2021492 @9.4.64    5 months ago

The cop thought someone was in danger and shot. Hope you are never in that situation and need a cop to make a decision whether to take action or not . [Deleted]

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
9.4.70  Tessylo  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @9.4.52    5 months ago

Why the fuck would I do that?

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
9.4.71  Tessylo  replied to  sandy-2021492 @9.4.64    5 months ago

It is quite disturbing Sandy and it seems that I cannot say that without getting my comments deleted unfairly or labeled incoherent filth jrSmiley_80_smiley_image.gif

That's what this 'article' is.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
9.4.72  seeder  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Tessylo @9.4.70    5 months ago

Educational purposes 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
9.4.73  Tessylo  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @9.4.72    5 months ago

[]

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
9.4.74  Tessylo  replied to  Tessylo @9.4.73    5 months ago

[]

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
9.4.75  Tessylo  replied to  Tessylo @9.4.66    5 months ago

[removed]

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
9.4.76  seeder  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Tessylo @9.4.71    5 months ago

Unfairly?!? When was the last time you offered an original thought?  LMMFAO

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
10  George    5 months ago

One good thing came out of this, a drug abusing douchebag who abused women will no longer have the ability to do so. George Floyd being dead is the best outcome for his future victims.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
10.1  Texan1211  replied to  George @10    5 months ago

Hear, hear!

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
10.2  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  George @10    5 months ago

[]

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
10.2.1  George  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @10.2    5 months ago

At least you are finally getting your copy and paste comments from a superior intellect, and not the ignorant source you were using before.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
10.2.2  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  George @10.2.1    5 months ago

[]

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
10.2.3  George  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @10.2.2    5 months ago

[Deleted]

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
10.2.4  George  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @10.2.2    5 months ago

Come on dude, don't be like they are, restore his comments. 

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
10.2.5  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  George @10.2.4    5 months ago

I’m happy to get into some bare knuckle dialogue with you, [deleted]

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
10.2.6  George  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @10.2.5    5 months ago

I was asking them to allow your comments to stand, you get that right? 

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Expert
10.3  MrFrost  replied to  George @10    5 months ago
One good thing came out of this, a drug abusing douchebag who abused women will no longer have the ability to do so.

Chauvin died?

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
10.3.1  George  replied to  MrFrost @10.3    5 months ago

Thank you once again for adding absolutely nothing to the conversation.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
10.3.2  Tessylo  replied to  George @10.3.1    5 months ago

[]

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
11  A. Macarthur    5 months ago

“The Fall of Minneapolis”.Megyn Kelly is joined by Liz Collin and JC Chaix, producer and director of “The Fall of Minneapolis,” to discuss the deterioration of Minneapolis after George Floyd's death.

Liz Collin’s High School Classmate Reviews Her Stupid New Book

With sources like convicted murderer Derek Chauvin and his mother, the former WCCO-TV reporter serves up red meat to Alpha News junkies in 'They’re Lying.'

One could also take serious issue with her sourcing, which includes: convicted murderer Chauvin, plus the convicted murderer's mother Carolyn Pawlenty,  imprisoned partner  Thomas Lane, and failed defense attorney Eric Nelson, among other uniformly pro-cop voices. Collin’s writing gets lazy when she dumps phrases like “who knows how many” and “for whatever reason” in front of sentences. Several speeches and interviews are included verbatim, instead of accompanying analysis with pull quotes, and those sections function as filler.

Collin’s marriage to Bob Kroll, former union president of the Police Officers Federation of Minneapolis and mustachioed chthonic avatar of police brutality, downgraded her career from WCCO darling to Alpha News right-wing shill. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
11.1  Tessylo  replied to  A. Macarthur @11    5 months ago

Finally, the truth.  Thanks A. Mac.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
11.1.1  seeder  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Tessylo @11.1    5 months ago

Truth about what? Has nothing to do with this article............at all except attacking the source as usual.............

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
11.1.2  A. Macarthur  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @11.1.1    5 months ago

The source has a clear conflict-of-interests and a history of bias.

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
11.1.3  A. Macarthur  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @11.1.1    5 months ago

Same rationale as that for judge’s recusals … conflicts of interest. Married to the president of the police union involved! Really?

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
11.1.4  seeder  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  A. Macarthur @11.1.3    5 months ago

Tough fucking shit. If you read, it is an opinion piece FFS. AND CHOCK FULL of evidence of bullshit basis for those fucking destructive, life ending, both death and dreams of those who had their lives destroyed by unprovoked, unprecedented burning and looting. Screw all the virtue signaling!!!

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
11.1.5  A. Macarthur  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @11.1.4    5 months ago

[]

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
11.2  JohnRussell  replied to  A. Macarthur @11    5 months ago
Liz Collin’s High School Classmate Reviews Her Stupid New Book

no surprise there

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
11.3  A. Macarthur  replied to  A. Macarthur @11    5 months ago

Check 8.2 before deleting for so-called "personal attacks" … it's what I said … a one way street with every effort to sustain a desired conclusion.

WHAT WAS HAPPENING AT THE MOMENT OF GEORGE FLOYD'S DEATH?

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
11.3.1  seeder  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  A. Macarthur @11.3    5 months ago

He was resisting arrest. And being hopped up on fentanyl and meth, probably not the best judge of what he should do. Especially since he didn’t want to go back to jail 

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
11.3.2  A. Macarthur  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @11.3.1    5 months ago

No. He was on the ground. His hands were handcuffed behind his back and he had a police officer’s knee on his neck.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
11.3.3  seeder  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  A. Macarthur @11.3.2    5 months ago

Correction shoulder

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
11.3.4  A. Macarthur  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @11.3.3    5 months ago

Derek Chauvin case finally over, SCOTUS rejects his appeal!

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
11.3.5  A. Macarthur  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @11.3.3    5 months ago

256

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
11.3.6  A. Macarthur  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @11.3.3    5 months ago

original

Correction, Jim. 

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
11.3.7  seeder  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  A. Macarthur @11.3.6    5 months ago

Correction Mac. The ellipse is indicating his right shoulder

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
11.3.8  JohnRussell  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @11.3.7    5 months ago

I think Mac knows that. What is your point? 

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
11.3.9  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  A. Macarthur @11.3.2    5 months ago
No. He was on the ground

So he just appeared on the ground out of thin air?  You are going to ignore why police were there and everything that transpired before this point?

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
11.3.10  seeder  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  JohnRussell @11.3.8    5 months ago

Point is, the cop is on his left. Surely you can see that..............or probably not 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
11.3.11  JohnRussell  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @11.3.10    5 months ago

So what?

Mac is describing the photo. An argument for Chauvin is that he wasnt kneeling on Floyds neck, he was kneeling on his shoulder. In the picture we can see Floyds shoulder and Chauvin is not kneeling on it. Get it ? 

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
11.3.12  George  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @11.3.9    5 months ago
You are going to ignore why police were there and everything that transpired before this point?

Simple answer is yes, if that had been a white man the liberal democrats wouldn't have said a word, but because of the color of his skin democrats expect less from him, so the police need to adjust their behavior accordingly. 

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
11.3.13  seeder  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  JohnRussell @11.3.11    5 months ago

That is his right shoulder in the ellipse FFS. Chauvin is on his left! That means he is kneeling on his fucking left shoulder where he is positioned. He would have to be over the top of him and on both shoulders in your scenario for that one not to be pictured.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
11.3.14  JohnRussell  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @11.3.13    5 months ago

LOL. Was Floyds left should attached to the right side of his head? Chauvin is kneeling on the right side of Floyds body. 

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
11.3.15  seeder  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  JohnRussell @11.3.14    5 months ago

Your partisan vision is tricking you it seems. Floyd is face down. Therefore, Chauvin is positioned on his left side.

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
11.3.16  George  replied to  JohnRussell @11.3.14    5 months ago
Chauvin is kneeling on the right side of Floyds body. 

Sigh.....

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
11.3.17  JohnRussell  replied to  JohnRussell @11.3.14    5 months ago
Supporters of Minneapolis Police Officer Derek Chauvin have   rallied   around the claim that he did not have his knee on George Floyd’s neck. A post on Instagram showed footage from Chauvin’s trial and declared, "Lying media exposed."

"Knee not on neck of George Floyd," the   April 8   post said.

The video clip was built around new footage from Police Officer Alex Keung’s body camera. Eric Nelson, Chauvin’s attorney, asked Minneapolis Police Chief Medaria Arradondo about the new footage.

"Would you say that from the perspective Mr. Kueng’s body camera, Officer Chauvin’s knee was more on Mr. Floyd’s shoulder blade?" Nelson asked April 5.

"Yes," Arrandondo said.

But the post ignores when the events in the footage took place.

They occurred as the medics arrived and rolled Floyd’s limp body onto a stretcher — in other words, only in the last seconds of the approximately eight minutes that Chauvin had restrained Floyd.

In the rest of the police chief’s testimony, prosecutor Steve Schleicher drilled down on that point.

Schleicher:   "You testified that the particular moment in time that you were viewing officer Keung's body worn camera it appeared, at that moment in time, that the knee of the defendant was more towards the shoulder blade. Is that right?"

Arrandondo:   "That is correct."

Schleicher:   "That is at a time where the ambulance had already arrived?"

Arrandondo:   "Yes."

Schleicher:   "Very shortly before they loaded Mr. Floyd onto the gurney?"

Arrandondo:   "Yes. That is correct."

Schleicher:   "And in your view of the body-worn camera footage, everything you reviewed prior to testifying today, did you see the defendant's knee anywhere but the neck of Mr. Floyd up until that time?"

Arrandondo:   "That is correct."

Schleicher:   "And so, the knee of the defendant was on Mr. Floyd's neck up until the time you just pointed out?"

Arrandondo:   "Yes. When I viewed that video portion, that is the first time that I had seen the knee of the defendant on the shoulder blade area."

PolitiFact | Instagram post ignores full Floyd video to falsely claim officer’s knee was not on Floyd’s neck
 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
11.3.18  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @11.3.17    5 months ago

Not even PolitiFact can cover up this expose.

Now the truth belongs to history.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
11.3.19  JohnRussell  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @11.3.15    5 months ago

800

Chauvins knee is brushing up against Floyds right ear. The bottom of his leg may have been in contact with Floyds left shoulder, but he was kneeling on the right side of Floyds neck. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
11.3.20  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @11.3.18    5 months ago

[]

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
11.3.21  seeder  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  JohnRussell @11.3.19    5 months ago

Because Floyd's head is turned to the right.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
11.3.22  JohnRussell  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @11.3.21    5 months ago

No shit ? 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
11.3.23  JohnRussell  replied to  JohnRussell @11.3.19    5 months ago

George Floyd death: Chauvin 'trained to stay away from neck' (bbc.com)

Minneapolis Police Department (MPD) training coordinator Mr Mercil told the court that officers are taught to use force in proportion to a suspect's level of resistance and it was "very important to be careful with the person".

"We tell officers to stay away from the neck when possible," he said, adding that officers are told to place body weight on a suspect's shoulders when reasonable.

Mr Mercil testified that based on the training that officers receive, Mr Chauvin should only have used that manner of neck restraint if there was "active aggression" involved.

He said that Mr Floyd had no ability to resist or show aggression once he was face down on the ground.

Mr Mercil told the court that Mr Chauvin should have recognised that it was "time to de-escalate the [level of] force" once Mr Floyd fell unconscious, and that Mr Floyd should have been moved into a different position to avoid asphyxiation.

Earlier in the day, Sgt Ker Yang, a crisis intervention training coordinator, confirmed that Mr Chauvin had completed the department's 40-hour practical training course and his "ultimate goal" should have been to assess Mr Floyd's medical condition during his arrest.

Prosecutors have suggested that asphyxiation was the cause of Mr Floyd's death - contrasting with the ruling of the medical examiner who said Mr Floyd died of "cardiopulmonary arrest", which means a person's heart and lungs have stopped.

Mr Chauvin's defence team has contended that alleged drug use and an underlying heart condition contributed to Mr Floyd's death.

Sgt Jody Stiger, a use of force expert for the Los Angeles Police Department, testified that officers were initially justified in their actions because Mr Floyd was "actively resisting" arrest as he was being placed in the patrol car.

"However, once he was placed in the prone position on the ground, he slowly ceased his resistance and at that point the officers - ex-officers I should say - they should have slowed down or stopped their force as well," he testified.
 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
11.3.24  Jasper2529  replied to  A. Macarthur @11.3.6    5 months ago

It seems that too many people want to ignore the fact that in 2020, the MPD's protocol allowed MRT. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
11.3.25  Tessylo  replied to  JohnRussell @11.3.17    5 months ago

The TRUTH.  Thanks!

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
11.3.26  Tessylo  replied to  Jasper2529 @11.3.24    5 months ago

It seems too many people want to ignore the fact that this was MURDER.

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
11.3.27  Jasper2529  replied to  Tessylo @11.3.26    5 months ago

How does your assumption correlate to what I stated in comment 11.3.24

Further, the MPD manual's protocol allowed MRT in 2020. Look it up. I did.


 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
11.3.28  Tessylo  replied to  Jasper2529 @11.3.27    5 months ago

Why would I waste my time?

Does it allow murder?

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
11.3.29  Jasper2529  replied to  Tessylo @11.3.28    5 months ago
Why would I waste my time?
Does it allow murder?

Well, I cannot speak for your or anyone else's views of education, but I've learned that researching all aspects of a topic allows me to develop the skills to maturely discuss said topic in an educated, knowledgeable manner.  

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
11.3.30  Greg Jones  replied to  Tessylo @11.3.28    5 months ago

You're confusing murder with involuntary manslaughter. But the autopsy proved that this knee position didn't cause 

Floyd's death.

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
11.3.31  Jasper2529  replied to  Greg Jones @11.3.30    5 months ago
You're confusing murder with involuntary manslaughter. But the autopsy proved that this knee position didn't cause  Floyd's death.

It appears that if scientific/medical and legal evidence do not agree with left wing media pundits (USA Today, NYT, WaPo, CNN, MSNBC, etc), then that evidence is wrong. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
11.3.32  Texan1211  replied to  Jasper2529 @11.3.31    5 months ago
It appears that if scientific/medical and legal evidence do not agree with left wing media pundits (USA Today, NYT, WaPo, CNN, MSNBC, etc), then that evidence is wrong. 

I think it only fair that the mantra "Follow the science" becomes "Follow some science".

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
11.3.33  Jasper2529  replied to  Texan1211 @11.3.32    5 months ago
I think it only fair that the mantra "Follow the science" becomes "Follow some science".

True. Or, "Follow the science" that (1) agrees with my political party, (2) agrees with what I've been indoctrinated to believe. 

It's become difficult to find independent, educated, critical thinkers.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
11.3.34  Tessylo  replied to  Jasper2529 @11.3.29    5 months ago

So it allows murder?

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
11.3.35  Tessylo  replied to  Greg Jones @11.3.30    5 months ago

See how long you live when someone kneels on your NECK for over nine minutes.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
11.3.36  Tessylo  replied to  Greg Jones @11.3.30    5 months ago

It's  MURDER

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
11.3.37  Tessylo  replied to  Vic Eldred @11.3.18    5 months ago

There is no truth to be found on this 'article' about this 'documentary' about the 'book'.

It's no expose.

It's victim blaming someone who was murdered by a racist cop.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
11.3.38  Tessylo  replied to  Jasper2529 @11.3.33    5 months ago

[Deleted - CoC Violation, Personal Attack, Taunting]

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
11.3.39  JBB  replied to  Tessylo @11.3.36    5 months ago

Yes, and Derek Chauvin has exhausted his last appeal all the way to the Supreme Court and will spend the next twenty one years in prison for murdering George Floyd. This has all probably prompted both this bullshit article and the far far rightwing  frenzy we have seen hereabouts...

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
11.3.40  CB  replied to  Tessylo @11.3.37    5 months ago

I mean "Officer" Chauvin LITERALLY had bystanders hinting, suggesting, recommending, and ultimately "demanding" although without touching the officer's person. . . "Take your knee off his neck - he WILL die." (Or, words to that effect.)  And, Chauvin remained in his stance without letting up until the life (struggle beneath him by Floyd) visibly was out of the body of Mr. Floyd. 

And we have people determined to look for "narratives" to fit and suit their some conservative agenda that LEOs can prejudge character and worth on the streets of any city without the aid of a judge. 

Well, when a judge did get involved, a trial was held. . . decided. . .  and no other judge or panel of judges or Supremes cared to support Mr. Chauvin's pretense of not knowing when a lifeforce is "flaming out" beneath himself.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
11.3.41  Tessylo  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @11.3.3    5 months ago

Correction neck

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
12  Drinker of the Wry    5 months ago

A recent study ranks downtown Minneapolis as one of the worst post-pandemic recoveries.  Minneapolis was 64th out of 66 US and Canadian cities surveyed by a University of Toronto study.  Seattle was 63 and Portland 61.


 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
12.1  Texan1211  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @12    5 months ago
A recent study ranks downtown Minneapolis as one of the worst post-pandemic recoveries.  Minneapolis was 64th out of 66 US and Canadian cities surveyed by a University of Toronto study.  Seattle was 63 and Portland 61.

I am sure most of the blame for that is corporate greed. Cities lost sales tax revenues as big retailers closed unsafe and unprofitable locations because of corporate greed (otherwise commonly referred to as fulfilling their fiduciary obligations to their shareholders). 

The rest is just conservatives' fault.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
12.1.1  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Texan1211 @12.1    5 months ago

The City Council had to approve a 6.5 percent increase in the property tax levy in 2023 and a 6.2 percent increase in 2024 to pay for their budget.

Property insurance rates climbed and there are still many uninhabitable buildings downtown.  Only the LA riots in 1992 were more expensive.

Mary wouldn’t want to live in the Twin Cities now.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
12.1.2  Texan1211  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @12.1.1    5 months ago
The City Council had to approve a 6.5 percent increase in the property tax levy in 2023 and a 6.2 percent increase in 2024 to pay for their budget. Property insurance rates climbed and there are still many uninhabitable buildings downtown.  Only the LA riots in 1992 were more expensive.

Social justice always carries a high price tag.

Besides, many of those office buildings are owned by big corporations or by very wealthy individuals. They can always be taxed more.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
12.1.3  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Texan1211 @12.1.2    5 months ago

Actually, many were small businesses:

“We don’t have law and order’: Black and Latino business owners face destruction in Minneapolis”

Perhaps the city failure to stop the violence was one more example of the systemic racism in this blue city.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
12.1.4  Texan1211  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @12.1.3    5 months ago
Actually, many were small businesses:

“We don’t have law and order’: Black and Latino business owners face destruction in Minneapolis”

Perhaps the city failure to stop the violence was one more example of the systemic racism in this blue city.

All true, but they can't exactly blame them when they need those votes, can they?

And evil, big corporations rank high on the righteousness meter, nearly on par with conservatives.