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I've gone from never Trump to probably Trump

  
Via:  GregTx  •  2 weeks ago  •  210 comments


I've gone from never Trump to probably Trump
Donald Trump is the only choice if the choice is Biden versus Trump.

Leave a comment to auto-join group Today's America

Today's America


S E E D E D   C O N T E N T


Including both national elections and Republican primaries, I've had four chances to vote for former President Donald Trump. I've never done it. I've never even been tempted to. I could rattle off the names of 100 people I'd prefer for the job.

The reason isn't complicated: I simply don't believe that a man who lacks even a modicum of prudence, temperance, or humility should ever be in charge of anything. Not a gas station or a classroom, and certainly not a nation. I've published dozens of columns in the past two years alone that elaborate on this point.

And yet, following the Soviet show trial in Manhattan that resulted in the first felony conviction of a former president in history, I find myself in the unthinkable position of supporting Trump's reelection bid. It isn't because I've suddenly forgotten about Trump's abominable character or his magnificently grotesque personality, nor because I've suddenly been swept up in the MAGA craze. I've simply come to believe that a Biden reelection is too dangerous for the fate of our nation. I believe that the forces that animate the modern Democratic Party are far darker than the sum of Trump's numerous deficiencies. Biden must be defeated — even if that means supporting an unfit and unqualified man.

The sham verdict is what finally knocked me over the edge, but far more troubling is how it fits into the larger effort by the establishment in Washington, D.C., to maintain its grip on power in the Trump era. From the very beginning, a malevolent monolith of government lifers, legacy media millionaires, and liberal elites in academia and business conspired to destroy him, setting fire to core American institutions and values along the way.

It will doubtless astound and horrify future historians that a multi-year investigation into Trump's supposed ties to Moscow was heavily influenced by a piece of opposition research, the Steele Dossier, which was paid for by his opponent for the White House, former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. Again, Trump was prosecuted for a crime so irrelevant to the well-being of America that hardly anyone could explain what the crime was.

Of course, I am not saying that Trump has never committed a felony in his colorful life — I'd wager that he has. The classified document charges leveled against Trump are serious. But context matters. Former President Bill Clinton lied under oath about having an affair with Monica Lewinsky in the late 90s. President George W. Bush is said by some to have committed war crimes for his invasion of Iraq and his policies at Guantanamo Bay. Former President Barack Obama targeted and killed three U.S. citizens in drone strikes in Yemen — the ACLU even filed a lawsuit against him to this effect. Hillary Clinton narrowly escaped felony charges for criminal negligence in handling classified documents despite mountains of damning evidence. Biden only evaded felony charges for the same crime because the prosecutor didn't think he could secure a conviction against an elderly man with a poor memory.

The notion that Trump's payoff to porn star Stormy Daniels, made in order to keep their affair out of the papers, was the crime finally worth turning a former president into a felon is so preposterous, so completely insulting to the intelligence of the public, that it beggars belief.

I retain deep doubts about Trump's capacity to lead — his leadership on COVID-19, from lockdowns to handing over the country to Anthony Fauci to hurrying the production of an experimental vaccine, was abysmal. Unlike other new converts in the media, I will not be donning a red baseball cap the next time I'm in front of a camera. But I do believe that he must win — or rather, that Biden must lose — in order for democracy to survive.


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GregTx
Professor Guide
1  seeder  GregTx    2 weeks ago
The sham verdict is what finally knocked me over the edge, but far more troubling is how it fits into the larger effort by the establishment in Washington, D.C., to maintain its grip on power in the Trump era. From the very beginning, a malevolent monolith of government lifers, legacy media millionaires, and liberal elites in academia and business conspired to destroy him, setting fire to core American institutions and values along the way.
 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.1  Tessylo  replied to  GregTx @1    2 weeks ago

First time I read this garbage through - meaningless nonsense and lies and projection.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
2  Sparty On    2 weeks ago

Myself, I was never Hillary and then never Biden.

Correct in both choices … 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
3  Sean Treacy    2 weeks ago

I've seen quite a number of similar statements this week from people who had been very anti-Trump conservatives since 2015.

The New York case was rotten

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
4  Greg Jones    2 weeks ago

"Again, Trump was prosecuted for a crime so irrelevant to the well-being of America that hardly anyone could explain what the crime was."

Soviet style show trial indeed. Once again the radical left has shot itself in the ass. Maybe November 6 might wake them up. They seem to think the majority of American citizens are too stupid to see what is going on and how bad Biden is for our democracy.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
4.1  Split Personality  replied to  Greg Jones @4    2 weeks ago
Soviet style show trial indeed.

Apparently you have no shame.

So you will vote for a disagreeable old PT Barnum like charlatan who keeps crying that his sky is falling while raking in millions a week from the gullible.  A guy who convinced hundreds of people to participate in voter nullification plots in 7 states.

You seem to think the majority of Americans are too stupid to see how bad Trump is for our democracy.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.2  Tessylo  replied to  Greg Jones @4    2 weeks ago

What does #34's convicted felon's crimes have to do with the 'well-being of America'?

Do you all even read this garbage?

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Guide
5  MrFrost    2 weeks ago

It's sad that trump is the best the GOP has  to offer. 

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
5.1  Greg Jones  replied to  MrFrost @5    2 weeks ago

Same could be said of the hapless and hopeless Dems

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Guide
5.1.1  MrFrost  replied to  Greg Jones @5.1    2 weeks ago

Same could be said of the hapless and hopeless Dems

Yea, figured the, "I know you are but what am I" argument wasn't far behind. Sad. 

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
5.1.2  Ronin2  replied to  MrFrost @5.1.1    2 weeks ago

The only sad thing is Democrats continued support for Brandon; and their abuse of government to go after their political opponents.

 
 
 
GregTx
Professor Guide
5.1.3  seeder  GregTx  replied to  MrFrost @5.1.1    2 weeks ago

Do you disagree with the sentiment of the comment?

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
5.1.4  Split Personality  replied to  Ronin2 @5.1.2    2 weeks ago
and their abuse of government to go after their political opponents.

Like Hunter Biden?

Give it a break already.

 
 
 
GregTx
Professor Guide
5.1.5  seeder  GregTx  replied to  Split Personality @5.1.4    2 weeks ago

Is Hunter running for office?..

Give it a break already

Yes please... 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
5.1.6  Tessylo  replied to  MrFrost @5.1.1    2 weeks ago

The Pee Wee Herman defense, PD&D+denial+delusion and defense of the indefensible are all the weapons in their arsenal

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
5.1.7  Ronin2  replied to  Split Personality @5.1.4    2 weeks ago

You think the government is going after Hunter Biden? jrSmiley_86_smiley_image.gif

Name any conservative that would have the government allow the most serious of crimes they commit have the statute of limitations run out on them; and then offer them a sweetheart plea deal that would give them probation; and freedom from any future charges?

The only reason their plan failed is a Trump appointed judge took the time to read the plea deal; and called Weiss' ass out on it.

Don't worry; the trial is taking place in Biden home state of Delaware- a Democrat controlled bastion of stupidity. Everyone knows the Bidens there. The chances that Hunter is going to be convicted by a jury from that pool are slim- despite overwhelming evidence.

The only break that is needed is from Democrats and their supporters pretending our justice system if fair.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
5.1.8  Split Personality  replied to  Ronin2 @5.1.7    2 weeks ago

Violations of the ATF form are rarely prosecuted and the 200 or so annual instances are when the charges are added on to a violent crime like serial killers or high school massacrers.

Few Prosecutions For Lying On ATF Gun-Purchase Form (ncja.org)

You admitted that a Trump appointed judge stopped the plea deal.  

That at least looks politically motivated.

Biden could have had Garland stop this in any number of ways but he left the Trump appointed Special Prosecutor in place. That appears to have been stupid but not taking advantage of his Presidency.

A plea deal was appropriate.  The chances are that you could very well be correct about Delaware, word is that the prosecution lost the jury already and he might get off all together.

The only break I need is from your piss poor partisan pessimism about the state of the nation and hatred expressed for your fellow Americans, even veterans.

SMH

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
5.1.9  Tessylo  replied to  Split Personality @5.1.8    2 weeks ago

Yeah, the Justice System is unfair to everyone BUT the former 'president'

FFS

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
5.1.10  CB  replied to  MrFrost @5.1.1    2 weeks ago

I suspect what is multiple times sadder is this: MAGAs are playing with us. They are here stalling. While subterfuge is the real world game they are playing. If Donald succeeds in getting the Presidency again; if MAGAs get the Senate; if MAGAs keep the House. . . these people who are not listening to us now are going to try to legislate as though there are no liberals in the room worth hearing. Moreover, any "purple" state they win over this time they will work to change those state laws to LOCK liberals out "for a generation" of elections.

What you are seeing is the GOP executing its plan to not be locked out of government leadership control. And, of course, as it is here, they don't give a fat sh-t how liberals feel about it. 

The game is already underway. . . . Do not get caught just watching liberal doom arrive.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
5.1.11  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  CB @5.1.10    2 weeks ago
MAGAs have been given facts time and time again. It's time to move on.

Not quite ready to move on?

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
5.1.12  CB  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @5.1.11    2 weeks ago

Your harassment is inappropriate.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
5.1.13  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  CB @5.1.12    2 weeks ago

Harassment, huh?

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
5.1.14  Split Personality  replied to  Tessylo @5.1.9    2 weeks ago

I am not certain that (D) Senator Mendez feels the same...

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
5.1.15  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Split Personality @5.1.14    2 weeks ago
I am not certain that (D) Senator Mendez feels the same...

I am not certain that she knows who Sen Mendez is…

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
5.1.16  CB  replied to  CB @5.1.10    2 weeks ago

I suspect what is multiple times sadder is this: Some Magas  are playing with us. They are here stalling. While subterfuge is the real world game they are playing. If Donald succeeds in getting the Presidency again; if Some Magas get the Senate; if Some Magas keep the House. . . these people who are not listening to us now are going to try to legislate as though there are no liberals in the room worth hearing. Moreover, any "purple" state they win over this time they will work to change those state laws to LOCK liberals out "for a generation" of elections.

What you are seeing is the GOP executing its plan to not be locked out of government leadership control. And, of course, as it is here, they don't give a fat sh-t how liberals feel about it.

The game is already underway. . . . Do not get caught just watching liberal doom arrive.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
5.1.17  Tessylo  replied to  CB @5.1.12    2 weeks ago

It's endless.  Seems some have nothing better to do.  

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
5.1.18  Tessylo  replied to  Split Personality @5.1.14    2 weeks ago

I don't care if he's a Democrat or a CONservative - this guilty is guilty as sin, throw the book at him.  Mrs. Mendendez sounds like a real piece of work also.  If I didn't know better, they're DINOs.  LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
5.1.19  CB  replied to  Tessylo @5.1.17    2 weeks ago
It's endless.  Seems some have nothing better to do.  

That's just the thing. Don't come here with their little picks and shovels looking to undermine liberals who are supplying them substantive discourse in reply. If they have nothing better to do. . . spend time at home in MAGALAND! I am not here just to bullshit my way through everyday. I come to assist NTers in making sense of all that is happening. Not to read disinformation, lies, or repeat what in the end is a dumb talking point. Also, a lot of their responses are so 'absent' new input that for all intents and purposes that it could come from a bot.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
5.1.20  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  CB @5.1.19    2 weeks ago
I come to assist NTers in making sense of all that is happening.

Thank you for your service.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
5.1.21  CB  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @5.1.20    2 weeks ago

You could do better yourself in aiding proper discourse, in my opinion.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
5.1.22  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  CB @5.1.21    2 weeks ago

I tend to reply to thoughtful, open dialogue with the same, but there is little of that around here.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
5.1.23  CB  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @5.1.22    2 weeks ago

Easy enough. Instead of crashing the place on a daily places. . . find happy trails. 

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
5.1.24  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  CB @5.1.23    2 weeks ago
Instead of crashing the place on a daily places...find Happy Trails

I found Happy Trails around 55 years ago and never left, but San Francisco left me.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
5.1.25  CB  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @5.1.24    2 weeks ago

Good for you! Back to the topic with something from your perspective worth reading, please.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
6  JohnRussell    2 weeks ago

Piles of unmitigated horseshit, like this article, are nonetheless instructive. 

The writer mentions a bunch of this and that regarding Trump, good and bad (in his eyes), but he NEVER mentions that Trump tried to overthrow our government. 

Such a glaring omission renders the rest of his argument meaningless. 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
6.1  Sean Treacy  replied to  JohnRussell @6    2 weeks ago
entions that Trump tried to overthrow our government. 

He challanged an election with a cockamanie scheme and lost.  That's not trying to "overthrow the government"

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
6.1.1  JohnRussell  replied to  Sean Treacy @6.1    2 weeks ago

Trump approved a plan to take away the votes of millions of people, in order to keep himself in office. 

He is a disgrace to the human race. 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
6.1.2  Sean Treacy  replied to  JohnRussell @6.1.1    2 weeks ago
pproved a plan to take away the votes of millions of people, in order to keep himself in offic

That's not an attempt to overthrow the government any more than any other election challenge is.

An attempt to overthrow the government would consist of using physical force and other methods outside the law.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
6.1.3  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Sean Treacy @6.1.2    2 weeks ago

An attempt to overthrow the government would consist of using physical force and other methods outside the law.

Like summoning thousands of savages to the Capitol to break in and try and kidnap and terrorize Representatives and Senators, stashing weapons, assaulting police officers, looting and defecating on the floors, erecting gallows, etc.  Just because they failed miserably doesn't mean they aren’t guilty of doing it.  Your opinions get more pathetic by the day.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
6.1.4  JohnRussell  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @6.1.3    2 weeks ago

They are losing their minds Hal, and trying to drag the rest of us down with them. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
6.1.5  JohnRussell  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @6.1.3    2 weeks ago
Like summoning thousands of savages to the Capitol to break in and try and kidnap and terrorize Representatives and Senators, stashing weapons, assaulting police officers, looting and defecating on the floors, erecting gallows, etc.  

Most of the people who broke into the Capitol had a goal, to "stop the steal" by whatever means they could.  Many of them admitted as such to the media.  

Such an effort is what directly led to Ashley Babbitts death.  She and her fellow "patriots" were trying to bash in a locked and barricaded entrance to the floor of the House of Representatives.  What were they going to do once they got there if the Reps were still inside ?  Hold hands and sing peace songs?  They were going to try, at the least, to physically intimidate the congresspeople into "stopping the steal". 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
6.1.6  Tessylo  replied to  JohnRussell @6.1.4    2 weeks ago

Losing?

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
6.1.7  cjcold  replied to  Sean Treacy @6.1    2 weeks ago
with a cockamanie scheme

A premeditated riot that breaks down the doors and invades congress?

Fake electors and personally calling states to manufacture votes?

Your definition of "cockamanie" (sp) is much different than mine.

 
 
 
GregTx
Professor Guide
6.2  seeder  GregTx  replied to  JohnRussell @6    2 weeks ago
but he NEVER mentions that Trump tried to overthrow our government.

Just spitballing here, but perhaps that's because he doesn't see it that way....

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
6.2.1  JohnRussell  replied to  GregTx @6.2    2 weeks ago

I dont know, he sees a lot of other things, why wouldnt he see Jan 6th ? 

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
6.2.2  Ronin2  replied to  JohnRussell @6.2.1    2 weeks ago

Because unlike the TDS driven most people can see Jan 6th was a riot.

Even the FBI said so.

The FBI has found scant evidence that   the Jan. 6 attack  opens new tab   on the U.S. Capitol was the result of an organized plot to overturn the presidential election result, according to four current and former law enforcement officials.
Though federal officials have arrested more than 570 alleged participants, the FBI at this point believes the violence was not centrally coordinated by   far-right groups or prominent supporters  opens new tab   of then- President Donald Trump  opens new tab , according to the sources, who have been either directly involved in or briefed regularly on the wide-ranging investigations.

One where the participants got bored and left for happy hour.

It wasn't even one full damn day!

They didn't take and hold any territory and declare their own little oasis of control. Unlike Chaz.

The intensity of these protests led to clashes with police, eventually prompting the Seattle Police Department to temporarily abandon its East Precinct building. Immediately afterward, protestors moved in and claimed a six-block radius of the surrounding area as their own. For the next 23 days, this occupied zone – known as the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone (or CHAZ), and later as the Capitol Hill Organized Protests (or CHOP) – would attract national media attention and become the focus of heated political debate. 

But it seems grabbing several blocks and holding them by armed force for several days doesn't qualify as an insurrection in leftist land.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
6.3  Right Down the Center  replied to  JohnRussell @6    2 weeks ago

renders the rest of his argument meaningless. 

There was no argument. He was going through his thought process as to why he may very well vote for Trump. It seems he was not trying to convince anyone to follow along. You might even learn something from what he said instead of taking everything as an argument.  Or maybe not

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
6.4  TᵢG  replied to  JohnRussell @6    2 weeks ago

My impression is that this article was written by a Trump supporter pretending to be a converted never-Trumper.   A ploy.

People need to stop being so easily influenced by others.   Trump's behavior has show he should never be given a position of power, much less the presidency.    It is blind partisanship and/or cultish sycophancy that overrides good judgment to actually consider Trump for the presidency.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
6.4.1  Right Down the Center  replied to  TᵢG @6.4    2 weeks ago
People need to stop being so easily influenced by others.   Trump's behavior has show he should never be given a position of power, much less the presidency.    It is blind partisanship and/or cultish sycophancy that overrides good judgment to actually consider Trump for the presidency.

I agree totally with the first sentence.  The rest of the post is the type of thing that should never influence people away from thinking for themselves.  It is nothing more than one persons opinion.  Trying to make people believe they must not have good judgement or be a blind partisan if they consider Trump is nothing less than gaslighting.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
6.4.2  TᵢG  replied to  Right Down the Center @6.4.1    2 weeks ago

You not agreeing with an argument does not make it gaslighting.

If you cannot deal with people putting forth arguments and opinions then you should steer clear of forums.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
6.4.3  Right Down the Center  replied to  TᵢG @6.4.2    2 weeks ago

[]

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
6.4.4  Right Down the Center  replied to  TᵢG @6.4.2    2 weeks ago

[]

 
 
 
arkpdx
Professor Quiet
6.5  arkpdx  replied to  JohnRussell @6    2 weeks ago
Piles of unmitigated horseshit, like this article, are nonetheless instructive. 

That's what I I think of the articles you put out. 

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Principal
7  Gsquared    2 weeks ago

Another one of your satire articles.  The funniest one yet!

 
 
 
GregTx
Professor Guide
7.1  seeder  GregTx  replied to  Gsquared @7    2 weeks ago

Yet another post that suggests there are alot of members that don't understand what satire is. Thanks for your post...

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Principal
7.1.1  Gsquared  replied to  GregTx @7.1    2 weeks ago

Your post proves without a doubt that some members don't recognize satire even when it is right in front of their face.

 
 
 
GregTx
Professor Guide
7.1.2  seeder  GregTx  replied to  Gsquared @7.1.1    2 weeks ago

Yep, that's what it said. Thanks for your confirmation, wasn't really needed though...

 
 
 
Gsquared
Professor Principal
7.1.3  Gsquared  replied to  GregTx @7.1.2    2 weeks ago

Nope, my comment doesn't confirm your comment at all.  Your comment certainly confirms my comment, though.

 
 
 
GregTx
Professor Guide
7.1.4  seeder  GregTx  replied to  Gsquared @7.1.3    2 weeks ago

Mmmmkay.....

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
8  Tacos!    2 weeks ago
following the Soviet show trial in Manhattan

As soon as you say shit like this, I know you're full of shit.

Pending any appeal, he got a fair trial. He was indicted based on the probable cause determination of a grand jury, following a lengthy investigation. He had competent, enthusiastic defense counsel. He was allowed to make all sorts of pre-trial motions. He was allowed to present evidence. He was allowed to cross examine witnesses. He had the opportunity to refute evidence presented against him. He was judged by a jury of his peers, who were screened by his own council after being selected at random from the general population. He got all of this due process in spite of publicly attacking and disparaging the judge, court staff, and jurors. He will still get a separate hearing for sentencing and will be allowed to make arguments in his defense.

In short, he got the same due process that any of us would get. Calling it a Soviet show trial is the most dishonest of claims.

 
 
 
GregTx
Professor Guide
8.1  seeder  GregTx  replied to  Tacos! @8    2 weeks ago
He was indicted based on the probable cause determination of a grand jury, following a lengthy investigation.

And what was the underlying crime that turned them into felonies in that determination?

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
8.1.1  Tacos!  replied to  GregTx @8.1    2 weeks ago

FFS read a newspaper. It’s not that complicated.

 
 
 
GregTx
Professor Guide
8.1.2  seeder  GregTx  replied to  Tacos! @8.1.1    2 weeks ago
FFS read a newspaper.

Those things still exist? Thanks for the advice though...

It’s not that complicated.

No, it's not....

 
 
 
Drakkonis
Professor Guide
8.1.3  Drakkonis  replied to  Tacos! @8.1.1    2 weeks ago
FFS read a newspaper. It’s not that complicated.

I think Greg was asking how misdemeanors get turned into a felony based on crimes he was never even charged with, let alone convicted of. I'm sort of wondering that myself. I find it pretty freaking disturbing that I could be in court and the prosecution can turn my misdemeanor into a felony just because he wants to, without first proving I committed some other felony offense that would justify it. Don't you? Seems to me that this is a case of assuming guilt in order to justify it. That's even scarier to any thinking person. Verdict by assumption. 

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
8.1.4  Split Personality  replied to  GregTx @8.1    2 weeks ago
Under New York law, falsification of business records is a crime when the records are altered with an intent to defraud. To be charged as a felony, prosecutors must also show that the offender intended to "commit another crime" or "aid or conceal" another crime when falsifying records.

In Trump's case, prosecutors said that other crime was a violation of a New York election law that makes it illegal for "any two or more persons" to "conspire to promote or prevent the election of any person to a public office by unlawful means," as Justice Juan Merchan explained in his   instructions   to the jury.

What exactly those "unlawful means" were in this case was up to the jury to decide. Prosecutors put forth three areas that they could consider: a violation of federal campaign finance laws, falsification of other business records or a violation of tax laws. 

Jurors did not need to agree on what the underlying "unlawful means" were. But they did have to unanimously conclude that Trump caused the business records to be falsified, and that he "did so with intent to defraud that included an intent to commit another crime or to aid or conceal the commission thereof." 

What was Trump convicted of? Details on the 34 counts and his guilty verdict - CBS News
-Ironically NY State Law 17-152 appears to date back to the early 1970s when the GOP dominated the NY
Legislature, Lt Gov and Governorship.
 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
8.1.5  Sparty On  replied to  Split Personality @8.1.4    2 weeks ago

Yes, a law that is rarely implemented  …. Unless your name is Trump

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
8.1.6  Tacos!  replied to  Drakkonis @8.1.3    2 weeks ago
I think Greg was asking how misdemeanors get turned into a felony based on crimes he was never even charged with, let alone convicted of.

Yeah, but we have dozens of seeds on this story. That exact issue has been discussed ad nauseum and is a thing a person could easily Google if they genuinely wondered about it. I, myself, have explained it here multiple times.

People like Greg keep asking the same questions repeatedly, even though they have been adjudicated in court and explained repeatedly here and in news media.

And it’s not because they don’t know the answer. They just don’t like the answer and have learned that it feels better if you imagine an impossible conspiracy in the courts. Wonder who taught them that.

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
8.1.7  Tacos!  replied to  Sparty On @8.1.5    2 weeks ago
Yes, a law that is rarely implemented  ….

How rarely? Is there data? Should that matter?

Unless your name is Trump

Or Weisselberg.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
8.1.8  Sean Treacy  replied to  Sparty On @8.1.5    2 weeks ago
a law that is rarely implemented  …. Unless your name is Trump

17-152 has never been charged against anyone before Trump,  and no prosecutor anywhere in the country has ever used an alleged  federal election law violation as a possible predicate to a state law crime. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
8.1.9  Tessylo  replied to  Tacos! @8.1.7    2 weeks ago

Do you think this could be overturned regarding snuffy's comment at 8.2?  I'm seriously curious for an answer.  I trust and respect your knowledge and experience and expertise in this.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
8.1.10  Tessylo  replied to  Tacos! @8.1.1    2 weeks ago

The continued denials in the face of reality is ludicrous

 
 
 
GregTx
Professor Guide
8.1.11  seeder  GregTx  replied to  Tacos! @8.1.6    2 weeks ago

[]

 
 
 
GregTx
Professor Guide
8.1.12  seeder  GregTx  replied to  GregTx @8.1.11    2 weeks ago

[]

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
8.1.13  Tacos!  replied to  Tessylo @8.1.9    2 weeks ago

You’d probably still have to establish that it likely resulted in a wrongful conviction. Not every impropriety results in a mistrial.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
8.1.14  Tessylo  replied to  Tacos! @8.1.13    2 weeks ago

Thank you.  I appreciate it.

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Guide
8.1.15  MrFrost  replied to  Sparty On @8.1.5    2 weeks ago
Yes, a law that is rarely implemented

He still broke the law, that's the way it goes. 

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
8.1.16  cjcold  replied to  Sean Treacy @8.1.8    2 weeks ago
17-152 has never been charged against anyone before Trump

Horseshit! Rarely is a far cry from never. It's just that the courts don't often see a criminal quite as blatant as Trump.

 
 
 
GregTx
Professor Guide
8.1.17  seeder  GregTx  replied to  cjcold @8.1.16    2 weeks ago

Citations please...

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
8.1.18  Tessylo  replied to  GregTx @8.1.17    2 weeks ago

Do your own homework/research for a change FFS

 
 
 
GregTx
Professor Guide
8.1.19  seeder  GregTx  replied to  Tessylo @8.1.18    2 weeks ago

Again,..  ironic

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
8.1.20  Tessylo  replied to  GregTx @8.1.19    2 weeks ago

How so?

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
8.2  Snuffy  replied to  Tacos! @8    2 weeks ago

Well there is another twist now in that trial. Seems that one of the jurors talked with friends & family before the trial ended.

Justice Juan Merchan informed prosecutors and Donald Trump’s attorneys on Friday about a newly discovered post on the New York court system’s Facebook page from a user who claimed to be the cousin of a juror.

“My cousin is a juror and says Trump is getting convicted,” the user wrote in a week-old comment, according to the judge. “Thank you folks for all your hard work!!!!”

Judge in Trump trial flags Facebook post that claimed insight into jury deliberations - POLITICO

They still have to investigate but if true this could have a big impact on the trial. Jury misconduct is nothing to laugh at.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
8.2.1  JohnRussell  replied to  Snuffy @8.2    2 weeks ago

They should check into whether this "misconduct" was preplanned. 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
8.2.2  Sean Treacy  replied to  JohnRussell @8.2.1    2 weeks ago
ist now in that trial. Seems that one of the jurors talked with friends & family before the trial ended.

No need to jump to conspiracies, it was apparently just a troll. 

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
8.2.3  Ronin2  replied to  JohnRussell @8.2.1    2 weeks ago

Right John.

It was done on purpose by a pro Trump juror so that the verdict would be thrown out.

Wouldn't it have been far easier for the juror just to have refused to go along with any charges so it would have been a hung jury?

Nah, that would make too much common damn sense!

Break out the tin foil hats people the leftists are at it again!

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
8.2.4  Tessylo  replied to  JohnRussell @8.2.1    2 weeks ago

It was bogus.  Debunked though don't expect a retraction.

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
8.2.5  cjcold  replied to  JohnRussell @8.2.1    2 weeks ago

Upon investigation, It was found to be a complete fabrication.

Just yet another case of far-right wing propaganda.

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
8.3  Ronin2  replied to  Tacos! @8    2 weeks ago
he got a fair trial.

Democrat judge that gave money to the Biden campaign; and money to an anti Republican PAC. Who wouldn't uphold defense objections; and bent over backwards for the prosecution. Wouldn't allow full testimony from defense witnesses that could refute the charges. Allowed salacious testimony from both Stormy Daniels and Cohen. Whose daughter's company works for Democrats and made money off of the trial.

DA that campaigned on getting Trump. Along with the third in command of Biden's DOJ- who resigned just so he could join the prosecution.

Jury pool from a Democrat controlled bastion of stupidity that voted overwhelmingly for Biden. Who the judge refused to sequester so they could go home and be coerced by the family, friends, and Democrat sycophants in the media.

This is a kangaroo court by any definition of the word.

It is statements like "he got a fair trial" that will allow Democrats to continue this type of bullshit. They got away with it once; guaranteed they will pull this shit again.

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
8.3.1  Tacos!  replied to  Ronin2 @8.3    2 weeks ago
Democrat judge that gave money to the Biden campaign

Yes, I’m aware. A whole $15. Therefore what, you say?

This may come as news to you, but many lawyers and judges care about politics and political issues, and they donate to candidates. They’re just like any other American in that regard. But we don’t go around disqualifying them all because of it. Nevertheless, this judge sought guidance from the ethics council and was advised that he need not refuse himself.

Incredibly, the same people who object to this judge donating lunch money to the Biden campaign have no problem with the lavish gifts received by people like Clarence Thomas.

The rest of your objections are similarly overblown and exaggerated in their importance. Also, since I have addressed them in other places here, I’m not going to break them all down again. Trump is free to appeal on any of those grounds, and I’m sure he will, but I wouldn’t put a lot of hope in a reversal, if I were you.

Of course, I see these objections all over the place, but the one thing I don’t see is anyone claiming that he didn’t fuck a porn star while he was married, didn’t pay her off to silence her, didn’t pay off a newspaper to bury stories like this, and didn’t falsify business records to hide the payments and all for the purpose of hiding who he really was so he could win an election. Furthermore, no one who supports him seems to have a problem with any of it. That is far more shameful than whatever you think happened with prosecuting this case.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
8.3.2  Split Personality  replied to  Ronin2 @8.3    2 weeks ago
Democrat judge that gave money to the Biden campaign; and money to an anti Republican PAC

Perfectly legal in NY as long as they don't participate in actual campaigning for a candidate.

Whose daughter's company works for Democrats and made money off of the trial.

Well that isn't the stupidest theory you've pushed... I'm sure you have evidence of some illegal activities and not just repeating the hateful brain dead comment of one of the Presidential GOP candidates on Truth Social?

DA that campaigned on getting Trump.

Trump campaigned on getting Hillary, Lock Her Up. Trump normalized such BS, get over it.

 
 
 
arkpdx
Professor Quiet
8.3.3  arkpdx  replied to  Tacos! @8.3.1    2 weeks ago
he didn’t fuck a porn star while he was married

Not an illegal act

didn’t pay her off to silence her, 

Again not necessarily illegal.

didn’t falsify business records to hide the payment

Disputable and misdemeanor at worst and not the made up felony charges he was tried for. 

pay off a newspaper to bury stories like this,

Sort of like was done with the reports of Hunter's laptop?

 
 
 
arkpdx
Professor Quiet
8.3.4  arkpdx  replied to  Tacos! @8.3.1    2 weeks ago
no problem with the lavish gifts received by people like Clarence Thomas.

Show us something Justice Thomas done aft. Before or after those gift were received 

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
8.3.5  Tacos!  replied to  arkpdx @8.3.3    2 weeks ago
Not an illegal act

So what? When did I say it was? Why is that your standard? He's a piece of shit human being and you want to vote for him anyway. Republicans used to care if their president was a philanderer. Now they don't. That's the point.

Disputable

Nope. Not anymore. 

misdemeanor at worst

No. Sorry. That's just not the law.

But even if it were the law, you again do not care if he is convicted of misdemeanor fraud. That is the much larger problem. Who cares if it's a misdemeanor or felony? You and millions of others clearly don't insofar as it will affect your vote. Your real worry is that he might have to go to prison for it - not that he's a crook.

Sort of like was done with the reports of Hunter's laptop?

I don't know. The Hunter thing hasn't been resolved yet, and I don't follow it that closely anyway. Why not? Because he's not a public servant and he's not trying to be one. He's just related to one. 

We have a convicted felon - not to mention a guy who regularly cheats on his wife, molests women, and brags about it - running for president. Any one of those things used to be disqualifying for virtually every voter. 

If you like Trump's policies, pick a different person who shares them, and isn't a piece of shit human being. There are many to choose from.

 
 
 
arkpdx
Professor Quiet
8.3.6  arkpdx  replied to  Tacos! @8.3.5    2 weeks ago
Republicans used to care if their president was a philanderer.

And there was a time that democrats didn't care. 

If you like Trump's policies, pick a different person who shares them, 

Tell me someone like that who is currently running and has a chance of beating Biden. I will do anything to keep that delusional incompetent dementia ridden fool out of the oval office. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
8.3.7  Tessylo  replied to  Tacos! @8.3.1    2 weeks ago

Awesome.  Simply awesome.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
8.3.8  Tessylo  replied to  arkpdx @8.3.6    2 weeks ago

So you are voting for President Biden

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
8.3.9  Tacos!  replied to  arkpdx @8.3.6    2 weeks ago
And there was a time that democrats didn't care.

There’s that moral compass! If they do it, it’s ok for me, too. That’s the moral code of a Kindergartner.

Tell me someone like that who is currently running and has a chance of beating Biden.

Nikki Haley. You also had other choices. DeSantis and Christie, for example. Any one of them could beat Biden just by walking from the car to the front door without assistance. Instead, the party is going with the worst possible option.

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
8.3.10  Tacos!  replied to  arkpdx @8.3.4    2 weeks ago
Show us something Justice Thomas done aft. Before or after those gift were received

Oh now that’s interesting. You think the mere appearance of a potential conflict of interest is not enough. There must also be a demonstrable cause and effect, yes? And that patient reserve goes even for the highest court and gifts worth many thousands of dollars.

Ok. Why isn’t that same courtesy afforded to a local judge who only gave 15 bucks to the campaign of a man who isn’t even involved in the case before him?

 
 
 
arkpdx
Professor Quiet
8.3.11  arkpdx  replied to  Tacos! @8.3.9    2 weeks ago

All of those that you named dropped out of the race and Trump secured the nomination much like Biden had before my states primary. (I was planning on voting for Nikki Haley) Unfortunately none of them have a chance as a write in candidate. I would much rather have Trump and his policies than Dementia Joe. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
8.3.12  Tacos!  replied to  arkpdx @8.3.11    2 weeks ago
All of those that you named dropped out of the race and Trump secured the nomination

You phrase the situation that way and it has the effect of avoiding the proper assignment of responsibility. The way you phrase it, these events simply happened. Like the turning of seasons. But that’s an incomplete telling of the story.

The other candidates didn’t just drop out like they grew tired of the idea of being president. No, Republicans had a chance to vote for them, and they voted for Trump instead. They had multiple people who largely share the same policy goals and they opted for the biggest asshole on the ballot.

before my states primary. (I was planning on voting for Nikki Haley)

You still could have voted for her. If millions of people chose to vote for Nikki Haley, she could have made some actual noise at the convention. I still live in hope, though.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
8.3.13  TᵢG  replied to  arkpdx @8.3.6    2 weeks ago

Of course, we all know that you are voting for Trump.   And you do not care what he has done.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
8.3.14  Right Down the Center  replied to  TᵢG @8.3.13    2 weeks ago
And you do not care what he has done.

That is a ridiculous conclusion.  It is quite possible to be disgusted by what Trump did yet still think Biden is a worse choice to run the country based on what he has done in the past three and a half years and his ever quickening mental decline.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
8.3.15  Split Personality  replied to  Right Down the Center @8.3.14    2 weeks ago
based on what he has done in the past three and a half years 

Please do expand on those thoughts

and his ever quickening mental decline.

as evidenced by what, a stellar DDay speech?  Trump & Biden are about equal in gaffes,  why is it that Biden is perceived "ever quickening" while Trump gets a pass for the same things?

 
 
 
GregTx
Professor Guide
8.3.16  seeder  GregTx  replied to  Split Personality @8.3.15    2 weeks ago
Trump & Biden are about equal in gaffes, 

Statistically, that's not possible....

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Guide
8.3.17  MrFrost  replied to  Right Down the Center @8.3.14    2 weeks ago
three and a half years and his ever quickening mental decline.

Trump still think's Obama is president and that his AZ. rally was in Texas. 

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Junior Quiet
8.3.18  afrayedknot  replied to  MrFrost @8.3.17    2 weeks ago

“Trump still think's…”

…like any other animal, he only reacts. No thought, no thanks, nothing but a totally self serving reflex response in order to survive in his manufactured reality. 

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Guide
8.3.19  MrFrost  replied to  afrayedknot @8.3.18    2 weeks ago

…like any other animal, he only reacts. No thought, no thanks, nothing but a totally self serving reflex response in order to survive in his manufactured reality. 

True. 

 
 
 
GregTx
Professor Guide
8.3.20  seeder  GregTx  replied to  afrayedknot @8.3.18    2 weeks ago
…like any other animal, he only reacts. No thought, no thanks, nothing but a totally self serving reflex response in order to survive in his manufactured reality. 

Kinda like issuing an EO about the Southern border that doesn't do a fucking thing in order to gain some political points?....

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Junior Quiet
8.3.21  afrayedknot  replied to  GregTx @8.3.20    2 weeks ago

“Kinda like…”

…trump is like nothing we have ever experienced on the national political stage. A purely puerile child who throws tantrums, throws paper towels, and throws the most insincere insults, insinuations, and invective displaying a total lack of empathy, and understanding…nothing but revenge and retribution and ultimately hatred.

He is a fake, fatuous and failed excuse for a leader, much less any definition you could conjure for a decent man. 

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
8.3.22  Split Personality  replied to  GregTx @8.3.16    2 weeks ago

Statistically, anything is possible.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
8.3.23  Split Personality  replied to  afrayedknot @8.3.18    2 weeks ago

Like going on national TV to defend taking horse dewormers and throwing in Enquirer like mentions of "they say" they can put light into your arteries to kill the virus or bleach, everyday bleach.

While Deborah Birx sat on the side hiding her face in her hands seeing her lifetime of credibility circling the drain.

 
 
 
GregTx
Professor Guide
8.3.24  seeder  GregTx  replied to  Split Personality @8.3.22    2 weeks ago

True.

 
 
 
GregTx
Professor Guide
8.3.25  seeder  GregTx  replied to  afrayedknot @8.3.21    2 weeks ago
trump is like nothing we have ever experienced on the national political stage.

You really think so?..

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Junior Quiet
8.3.26  afrayedknot  replied to  Split Personality @8.3.23    2 weeks ago

“While Deborah Birx…”

Not just her in that horrific situation…any reasonable person with any level of mental acuity or any sense of self worth either confirmed, or in a moment of clarity, changed a decision on whether or not they should have any form of fealty to such a fragile, fraudulent, fragmented fool. 

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Junior Quiet
8.3.27  afrayedknot  replied to  GregTx @8.3.25    2 weeks ago

Do you actually believe he is not?

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Guide
8.3.28  MrFrost  replied to  arkpdx @8.3.3    2 weeks ago
Not an illegal act

Might as well be coming from the, "party of family values". 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
8.3.29  TᵢG  replied to  Right Down the Center @8.3.14    2 weeks ago

One would have to be blindly partisan to not recognize that Trump is a narcissistic con-man who will abuse the power of the presidency if it suits him personally.

On top of that, what sort of irrational, irresponsible, unpatriotic thinking gives the presidency to a traitor who is the only PotUS in our history to try to steal a presidential election through fraud, coercion, lying, and incitement?

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Guide
8.3.30  MrFrost  replied to  GregTx @8.3.20    2 weeks ago

Kinda like issuing an EO about the Southern border that doesn't do a fucking thing in order to gain some political points?....

The border bill was killed by republicans because trump said he wants to campaign on the border issues. That's what it boils down to, Greg. 

Republicans don't care about the border issues unless it benefits them politically. PERIOD. 

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Guide
8.3.31  MrFrost  replied to  TᵢG @8.3.29    2 weeks ago
Trump is a narcissistic con-man who will abuse the power of the presidency if it suits him personally.

Yup....

 
 
 
arkpdx
Professor Quiet
8.3.32  arkpdx  replied to  TᵢG @8.3.29    2 weeks ago
the presidency to a traitor

When and where has he been indicted,tried, and convicted of treason. 

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
8.3.33  Right Down the Center  replied to  MrFrost @8.3.17    2 weeks ago

Biden thinks his uncle was eaten by cannibals

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
8.3.34  Right Down the Center  replied to  TᵢG @8.3.29    2 weeks ago

Thanks for the rehashing.  It really doesn't address my comment though.

That is a ridiculous conclusion.  It is quite possible to be disgusted by what Trump did yet still think Biden is a worse choice to run the country based on what he has done in the past three and a half years and his ever quickening mental decline.

 
 
 
arkpdx
Professor Quiet
8.3.35  arkpdx  replied to  MrFrost @8.3.17    2 weeks ago
Trump still think's Obama is president

I can understand that.  There isn't a whole lot of difference between the two except for Obama was not suffering from dementia which is even scarier. 

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
8.3.36  Right Down the Center  replied to  Split Personality @8.3.15    2 weeks ago
Trump & Biden are about equal in gaffes

Not within miles of each other

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Guide
8.3.37  MrFrost  replied to  Right Down the Center @8.3.33    2 weeks ago

Biden thinks his uncle was eaten by cannibals

"Two Corinthians walk into a bar...."

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Guide
8.3.38  MrFrost  replied to  arkpdx @8.3.32    2 weeks ago
When and where has he been indicted,tried, and convicted of treason. 

He shared top secret info obtained from Israel with russian diplomats. He admitted to it. 

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Junior Quiet
8.3.39  afrayedknot  replied to  Right Down the Center @8.3.34    2 weeks ago

“…ever quickening mental decline.”

Thus describing every person who even considers voting for the aberration that is trump and all he represents. 

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
8.3.40  Right Down the Center  replied to  afrayedknot @8.3.39    2 weeks ago

Uh huh, 

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Junior Quiet
8.3.41  afrayedknot  replied to  Right Down the Center @8.3.40    2 weeks ago

Enough said, if that is all you have, need or want. 

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
8.3.42  Right Down the Center  replied to  afrayedknot @8.3.41    2 weeks ago

It is all a ridiculous comment deserves.

Enough said

 
 
 
GregTx
Professor Guide
8.3.43  seeder  GregTx  replied to  MrFrost @8.3.30    2 weeks ago

Right, it's obviously the Republicans fault that since Biden was elected, we've had record breaking illegal immigration.....

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
8.3.44  Sean Treacy  replied to  Split Personality @8.3.15    2 weeks ago

Trump & Biden are about equal in gaffe

and the phillies  and white Sox are about equal in wins. 

There really is no limit to the ridiculous things people will say in the name of partisanship

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
8.3.45  Sean Treacy  replied to  MrFrost @8.3.30    2 weeks ago

The bill was killed because it was a disaster and made things much worse by limiting the powers the president was already granted by congress 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
8.3.46  Tessylo  replied to  Split Personality @8.3.15    2 weeks ago

I agree with all you say other than 'the former 'president' and President Biden are about equal in gaffes'

No.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
8.3.47  Tessylo  replied to  GregTx @8.3.25    2 weeks ago

KNOW SO.

 
 
 
GregTx
Professor Guide
8.3.48  seeder  GregTx  replied to  Tessylo @8.3.46    2 weeks ago

Absolutely,  Biden has a much longer history of "gaffes"..

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
8.3.49  Tessylo  replied to  GregTx @8.3.48    2 weeks ago

Well he has been in the public eye for a very long time, serving us for a very long time.  He was Vice President as well as is the President.

The former 'president' convicted felon on 34 counts has been in the public eye as 'president' and running for 'president' for a lot less - so there is no real comparison.  Just that we've known President Biden, and he has been a public figure for a very, very long time.  

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
8.3.50  cjcold  replied to  Tacos! @8.3.1    2 weeks ago
That is far more shameful

Couldn't have put it better.

 
 
 
GregTx
Professor Guide
8.3.51  seeder  GregTx  replied to  Tessylo @8.3.49    2 weeks ago
  so there is no real comparison.  Just that we've known President Biden, and he has been a public figure for a very, very long time.  

You could have just said "I agree"....

 
 
 
arkpdx
Professor Quiet
8.3.52  arkpdx  replied to  MrFrost @8.3.30    2 weeks ago

The border bill was defeated because it was worse than what is going on now without it. 

 
 
 
arkpdx
Professor Quiet
8.3.53  arkpdx  replied to  MrFrost @8.3.38    2 weeks ago

Again that is not treason as it is defined in the Constitution. 

 
 
 
arkpdx
Professor Quiet
8.3.54  arkpdx  replied to  Tessylo @8.3.8    2 weeks ago

I wouldn't vote for Biden if he were the only person on the ballot. I would rather vote for a politically charged and convicted felin than a  pedofile who likes to fondle little girls breasts and sniff their hair or one who in the pocket of the CCP. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
8.3.55  Tessylo  replied to  MrFrost @8.3.38    2 weeks ago

You just know that was not the only instance.  There had to be multitudes of instances where #34 did these things.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
8.3.56  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  MrFrost @8.3.38    2 weeks ago
He shared top secret info obtained from Israel with russian diplomats. He admitted to it. 

I’m surprised that the left hasn’t applauded that.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
8.3.57  Tessylo  replied to  MrFrost @8.3.38    2 weeks ago

Only traitors applaud such things, aka magats

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
8.3.58  TᵢG  replied to  arkpdx @8.3.32    2 weeks ago
When and where has he been indicted,tried, and convicted of treason. 

How many times must this be explained?

One need not be convicted of treason to qualify as a traitor.

The word ‘traitor’ is a normal English word with colloquial meaning.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
8.3.59  TᵢG  replied to  Right Down the Center @8.3.34    2 weeks ago

One would have to be blindly partisan to not recognize that Trump is a narcissistic con-man who will abuse the power of the presidency if it suits him personally.

On top of that, what sort of irrational, irresponsible, unpatriotic thinking gives the presidency to a traitor who is the only PotUS in our history to try to steal a presidential election through fraud, coercion, lying, and incitement?

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
8.3.60  TᵢG  replied to  arkpdx @8.3.54    2 weeks ago

Trump is a convicted felon.   Biden, however, has not even been charged with your absurd fantasy of pedophilia or fondling little girl's breasts.   Sniffing hair is hardly a crime.   And no formal allegations have been made about Biden in the "pocket of the CCP".

You have no problem making up charges for Biden yet will not even recognize that Trump is a traitor.   And of course, as we all know, you will vote for Trump no matter what ... no matter how many felonies he committed ... regardless of the fact that he is the only PotUS in our history to attempt to steal a presidential election through fraud, coercion, lying, and incitement.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
8.3.61  CB  replied to  TᵢG @8.3.60    2 weeks ago

Some MAGAs must stay on negativism about liberals and democrats or maybe, POW!   MAGAs are not permitted to break with the party negative messaging .jrSmiley_123_smiley_image.gif   It appears to me some MAGAs are now spamming this site with stale copy and paste comments. Piggybacking the same on what liberals write.

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
8.3.62  Ronin2  replied to  TᵢG @8.3.13    2 weeks ago

Just like you and the rest here that keep pounding on Trump don't give a rat's ass what Brandon and the Democrats have done to this country.

You will make any excuse for the rules in the house they have ignored, laws they have violated, and their twisting of the Constitution over the last 8 years and counting. 

You don't care that Brandon threatened use of military force against US citizens not once; but twice. You don't care that he held classified documents both from his time as a Senator and VP; and shared those documents with his ghost writer (an who knows who else). A ghost writer that knew he was receiving classified information; and then destroyed evidence "because he was scared". Nor do you care that Brandon's homes weren't raided by the FBI; who refused to even going into search until the public demand forced them to- and then found even more classified documents- that Brandon's search team (who didn't have clearance to handle them) missed. Did they get them all? Who knows, there is a very large trove of them at the University of Delaware that weren't gone through from his time as Senator. Before you claim Hur wouldn't press charges- he testified before Congress Brandon violated the law repeatedly. Hur didn't want to get Durhamed in a Democrat controlled bastion of stupidity state- with a Democrat judge and jury. Garland is still free to press charges against Brandon; but we all know he won't. Nor will he release Brandon's interview with Hur's team; which the DOJ highly edited the written transcript of.

You also don't care that Brandon's family has taken money from foreign countries in return for political favors/access; and that Brandon has benefited directly from it. Funneling money from abroad through shell company LLC's.

You lot will still be voting for Brandon and Democrats to continue running this country into the ground. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
8.3.63  TᵢG  replied to  Ronin2 @8.3.62    2 weeks ago

Bullshit.  I have recognized Biden's mistakes and shortcomings.    You, however, incessantly rail on Biden while defending Trump.

It continues to amaze me that anyone would even consider a scoundrel and traitor like Trump to be PotUS, much less defend him.   It is cultish.

You want to give the presidency to a traitor (and now convicted felon) who is the only PotUS in our history to try to steal a presidential election through fraud, coercion, lying, and incitement.

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
8.3.64  George  replied to  TᵢG @8.3.63    2 weeks ago
(and now convicted felon)

Technically he is not a convicted felon until the judge enters the judgement of guilt, this normally happens at sentencing.

It continues to amaze me that anyone would even consider a scoundrel and traitor like Trump to be PotUS,

It continues to amaze me that anyone would prop up a person in obvious decline. who took inappropriate showers with his teenage daughter, raised a drug abusing son, has dogs that can't be controlled and constantly bite people. has lied constantly about his entire life and has done such a piss poor job as president. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
8.3.65  TᵢG  replied to  George @8.3.64    2 weeks ago
Technically he is not a convicted felon until the judge enters the judgement of guilt, this normally happens at sentencing.

Endless splitting of hairs rather than accepting reality.   

Did the judge accept the verdict and set a sentencing date?   If so, that technically means Trump is a convicted felon.   If not, show us the JNOV.   

But at least you did not pull the 'rigged trial' bullshit.

It continues to amaze me that anyone would prop up a person in obvious decline. ...

Of course, the Pee Wee Herman response.   Deflect to Biden.  

I personally do not prop up Biden.   My position is that in spite of Biden's faults, there is no comparing him (or most anyone) with Trump.   

No PotUS in our history has tried to steal a presidential election through fraud, coercion, lying, and incitement.   One would think that a rational, responsible, patriotic mind would eliminate Trump from consideration for that alone.   It remains amazing and sickening to see just how far blind partisanship will take some people.

Where are the days where a presidential candidate was held to some standard of character and morality?   Gary Hart went from superstar to shit instantly upon the public learning of his affair.   But now the GOP is perfectly willing to vote for a traitor and convicted felon for the presidency.

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
8.3.66  George  replied to  TᵢG @8.3.65    2 weeks ago
Where are the days where a presidential candidate was held to some standard of character and morality?

It's funny you can ask this question while supporting a pedophile, or supporting a man who denied his own granddaughter for political purposes. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
8.3.67  TᵢG  replied to  George @8.3.66    2 weeks ago

You just tried to split hairs on Trump's conviction yet you leap to deeming Biden a pedophile??   

Such a blatant lack of objectivity.   It is astounding.

 
 
 
Igknorantzruls
Freshman Quiet
8.3.68  Igknorantzruls  replied to  TᵢG @8.3.67    2 weeks ago

Well, just because there was a trial held, evidence presented to a jury of his peers, and he was found guilty , certainly doesn’t mean Biden rumors aren’t more convincing and should be held in higher regard…

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
8.3.69  CB  replied to  Igknorantzruls @8.3.68    2 weeks ago

Please elaborate. Because it is one thing for "George" to be loosely floating the word, "pedophile" about Biden, and potentially another thing on the true facts of the matter of a man and his daughter's relationship. There are no charges pending.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
8.3.70  Tessylo  replied to  Igknorantzruls @8.3.68    2 weeks ago

But of course jrSmiley_78_smiley_image.gif jrSmiley_80_smiley_image.gif jrSmiley_98_smiley_image.gif

I posted a quote the other day to the extent of - we know they're lying - they know we know they're lying - yet they continue to lie

It's - another time I am at a loss for words - the endless denials are so tiresome in the face of all known reality

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
8.3.71  Tessylo  replied to  CB @8.3.69    2 weeks ago

It's projection - the former 'president' #34 is guilty of the same IMHO and it's the usual PD&D.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
8.3.72  Tessylo  replied to  GregTx @8.3.51    2 weeks ago

No.  You could have said I must have the last word no matter what and you cannot admit you are wrong, like most cons

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
8.3.73  Right Down the Center  replied to  TᵢG @8.3.59    2 weeks ago

Still deflecting I see

One would have to be blindly partisan to not recognize that Trump is a narcissistic con-man who will abuse the power of the presidency if it suits him personally.

It is quite possible to be disgusted by what Trump did yet still think Biden is a worse choice to run the country based on what he has done in the past three and a half years and his ever quickening mental decline.

On top of that, what sort of irrational, irresponsible, unpatriotic thinking gives the presidency to a traitor who is the only PotUS in our history to try to steal a presidential election through fraud, coercion, lying, and incitement?

It is ridiculous to come to the conclusion anyone that would vote for Trump would do so because of irrational, irresponsible, unpatriotic thinking.  It seems accusing them of such would only be done to make them feel bad about their decision or others feeling good about their decision to support BDB.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
8.3.74  Right Down the Center  replied to  TᵢG @8.3.58    2 weeks ago
The word ‘traitor’ is a normal English word with colloquial meaning.

Yes, how many times does it have to be explained that the term traitor being used in the colloquial sense is an opinion, not fact.  A traitor in the legal sense is a fact.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
8.3.75  TᵢG  replied to  Right Down the Center @8.3.73    2 weeks ago
Still deflecting I see

Is that all you have ... a completely false claim that I am deflecting?

It is quite possible to be disgusted by what Trump did yet still think Biden is a worse choice to run the country based on what he has done in the past three and a half years and his ever quickening mental decline.

Well of course it is possible.   We see people doing so every day.   You clearly do so.   

The fact that it is possible does not make it rational, responsible or patriotic.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
8.3.76  Right Down the Center  replied to  TᵢG @8.3.65    2 weeks ago
One would think that a rational, responsible, patriotic mind would eliminate Trump from consideration for that alone. 

And one that thought that would be wrong.  A rational, responsible and patriotic mind may come to the conclusion that even with all the Trump baggage he would still be better than Joe for the country they love.  Agree, or disagree I don't know why that seems so hard to understand.

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
8.3.77  George  replied to  TᵢG @8.3.75    2 weeks ago

And supporting a piece of shit like Biden does not make you rational, responsible or patriotic. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
8.3.78  TᵢG  replied to  Right Down the Center @8.3.74    2 weeks ago
the term traitor being used in the colloquial sense is an opinion, not fact. 

Don't you tire of making the same feeble arguments?

Yes, RDtC, deeming someone a traitor is an opinion.    I have stated this countless times.

Trump is a traitor.   That is my (and others) opinion and I (and others) can make very strong arguments backing our opinions.

You, however, spend your time trying to downplay any criticism of Trump.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
8.3.79  Right Down the Center  replied to  TᵢG @8.3.75    2 weeks ago
Is that all you have ... a completely false claim that I am deflecting?

Up until now you have been

The fact that it is possible does not make it rational, responsible or patriotic.

It may.  It sure doesn't make them irrational, irresponsible or unpatriotic.  

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
8.3.80  Right Down the Center  replied to  TᵢG @8.3.78    2 weeks ago
Don't you tire of making the same feeble arguments?

It is called a fact and sometimes it bears repeating.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
8.3.81  TᵢG  replied to  George @8.3.77    2 weeks ago

Again, all you do is deflect from Trump to Biden.   Pathetic.

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
8.3.82  George  replied to  TᵢG @8.3.81    2 weeks ago

And all you do is deflect from Biden to Trump, where Biden is the actual president, even more pathetic.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
8.3.83  Right Down the Center  replied to  TᵢG @8.3.78    2 weeks ago
Trump is a traitor.   That is my (and others) opinion and I (and others) can make very strong arguments backing our opinions.

It would be a much stronger argument if he was tried and convicted for treason.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
8.3.84  TᵢG  replied to  Right Down the Center @8.3.80    2 weeks ago

You are repeating a fact pretending that you are rebutting an argument.

I have never stated that the colloquial deeming of Trump as a traitor makes it a fact.   

Do better than a lame strawman argument.

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Junior Quiet
8.3.85  afrayedknot  replied to  Right Down the Center @8.3.80    2 weeks ago

“It is called a fact and sometimes it bears repeating.”

It is less a matter of hanging one’s hat on some manufactured ‘fact’ and more a question of whether one has the wherewithal to make a cogent claim.

The incessant repeating does not an argument make. 

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
8.3.86  Right Down the Center  replied to  TᵢG @8.3.84    2 weeks ago
You are repeating a fact pretending that you are rebutting an argument.

Actually I am not rebutting an argument at all, just reminding people that it is an opinion.  You yourself asked how many times you had to explain it.  You are welcome for my helping out.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
8.3.87  Right Down the Center  replied to  afrayedknot @8.3.85    2 weeks ago

Try again.  That was sad, whatever it was.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
8.3.88  TᵢG  replied to  George @8.3.82    2 weeks ago

That is a lie.   I acknowledge Biden's failures and have clearly stated that Biden should not be running.    What you fail to acknowledge (and in fact try to argue against) is that Trump is an order of magnitude worse.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
8.3.89  TᵢG  replied to  Right Down the Center @8.3.86    2 weeks ago

Stating that an acknowledged opinion is indeed an opinion offers nothing of value.

You have nothing.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
8.3.90  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Tessylo @8.3.71    2 weeks ago
the former 'president' #34

Since he's passed on, probably should leave Eisenhower out of this..........

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
8.3.91  Right Down the Center  replied to  TᵢG @8.3.89    2 weeks ago
Stating that an acknowledged opinion is indeed an opinion offers nothing of value.

It may be of no value for you, of course you can't speak for everyone.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
8.3.92  Tessylo  replied to  TᵢG @8.3.67    2 weeks ago

The endless defense of the indefensible and deflection and of such disgusting and preposterous claims against a decent caring loving person is sickening to me.  

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
8.3.93  George  replied to  TᵢG @8.3.88    2 weeks ago
Trump is an order of magnitude worse.

And that is a pathetic opinion of a Biden supporter, nothing more. I have said i will not vote for trump, Period! You have said you WILL vote for a man who showered with his daughter, denied a grandchild for political purposes and has been an all around failure who also could be described as a traitor.

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Junior Quiet
8.3.94  afrayedknot  replied to  Right Down the Center @8.3.91    2 weeks ago

“…you can't speak for everyone.”

Words we should all remember. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
8.3.95  Tessylo  replied to  TᵢG @8.3.78    2 weeks ago

Anyone involved with/in 1/6 and including all the fake electors in that 'cockamamie scheme' jrSmiley_80_smiley_image.gif are traitors as far as I'm concerned and every single one needs to be held accountable.  This includes the Georgia (I believe a RICO case?) and #34's obstruction of the Top Secret and Classified Documents cases.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
8.3.96  Tessylo  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @8.3.90    2 weeks ago

a lot of people will be referring now to the former 'president' 45, convicted felon on 34 felony counts as #34

do try to keep up

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
8.3.97  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Tessylo @8.3.71    2 weeks ago

Ike didn't have any daughters.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
8.3.98  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Tessylo @8.3.96    2 weeks ago

You are the only one I see doing it and commentary like that is childish. I don't like Biden being referred to as Brandon either .

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
8.3.99  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Tessylo @8.3.96    2 weeks ago
a lot of people will be referring now to the former 'president' 45, convicted felon on 34 felony counts as #34

How silly.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
8.3.100  Right Down the Center  replied to  George @8.3.93    2 weeks ago
who also could be described as a traitor.

Exactly.  

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
8.3.101  Right Down the Center  replied to  Tessylo @8.3.96    2 weeks ago
a lot of people will be referring now to the former 'president' 45, convicted felon on 34 felony counts as #34

How many is a lot?

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
8.3.102  Right Down the Center  replied to  afrayedknot @8.3.94    2 weeks ago

Don't worry, I will remind them.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
8.3.103  CB  replied to  George @8.3.77    2 weeks ago

The two presidential campaigners are not the same in demeanor, tenor, qualifications, or character.  Here's your example: 

EFURfzCEk39i5G4LF5NiqL-320-80.jpg Gopher-Snake-3-650x425.jpg
Coral Snake (Poisonous) Gopher Snake (mimics colors of poisonous snakes)

Disinformation propaganda proliferated (and allowed to stand here- to accomplish what I don't know) by MAGAs seeking to establish that our two campaigners are equal in comparison won't work on the informed.   

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
8.3.104  CB  replied to  Right Down the Center @8.3.76    2 weeks ago

TRUMP “I DON’T CARE ABOUT YOU!”

Y'all just got dissed! No matter how you look at it. Nobody jokes in this way at a critical time in the race unless he is stupid to the hilt. But, spin on. Look for Donald upcoming swerves on your path to victory! Donald is doing everything he can to indicate why he is nobody's political friend. MAGAs come and go and transact with him.

 
 
 
arkpdx
Professor Quiet
8.3.105  arkpdx  replied to  TᵢG @8.3.88    2 weeks ago
 I acknowledge Biden's failures and have clearly stated that Biden should not be running

Yet you will vote for him anyway. 

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
8.3.106  Right Down the Center  replied to  CB @8.3.104    2 weeks ago

Why didn't you show the whole thing or have the full context?  Great example of partisan disinformation.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
8.3.107  CB  replied to  Right Down the Center @8.3.106    2 weeks ago

Let's be clear, your version which adds nominally few but 13 additional words, 'See now, the Press will take that—and He said a horrible thing.' Thereabouts. 

Not to suggest that you pay any notable attention to any liberals, but this liberal has for his time on NT always made Youtube presentations when one could be grabbed. And in this case, that video which is (even for me) narrowed seems to get the SUBSTANCE of what was stated.

Your version on added 13 other words which did nothing for the alleged JOKE but did manage to insult the Press. The Press and camera people were standing in the back I presume pointing the cameras that caught his remark. . . only to be dragged into Donald's narrative "kickin and screamin.'

I conclude that those 13 additional words not edited from the Youtube version (by its poster, and there was nothing else there to offer viewers on it). changes nothing about the now alleged joke. You will have find a lengthier video. . . but apparently, even you can't. 

I don't have to play partisan short-shift games with you RDtC. I don't have a damn thing to hide or even prove to you. The comment was what it was: Ignorant to tell a crowd, because I damn sure bet some of them did not get it either (unless you have a lengthier video where he clears up the comment).

I could not find that when I 'pulled' Youtube video.

I am not like some MAGAs, not even as a liberal. 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
9  Sean Treacy    2 weeks ago

It's comedy.  The same people who confidently got this completely wrong for weeks (even days after the verdict)  now claim it is easy to understand and they've explained it many times. (they' haven't). 

It took a long time, but I'm glad I was able to finally get through to them. 

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Junior Quiet
9.1  afrayedknot  replied to  Sean Treacy @9    2 weeks ago

“…but I'm glad I was able to finally get through to them.”

Um, thanks? Your self-aggrandizing public service is duly noted. 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
9.1.1  Sean Treacy  replied to  afrayedknot @9.1    2 weeks ago
, thanks? Your public service is duly noted. 

you are welcome. There was so much rampant misinformation on the left.  

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
9.1.2  cjcold  replied to  Sean Treacy @9.1.1    2 weeks ago

So you ignore Trump being the most documented liar on the planet?

 
 
 
GregTx
Professor Guide
9.1.3  seeder  GregTx  replied to  cjcold @9.1.2    2 weeks ago

jrSmiley_86_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
9.1.4  cjcold  replied to  cjcold @9.1.2    2 weeks ago

Have always prided myself on never lying. Never had to.  

Always telling the truth means never having to remember a lie.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
9.1.5  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  cjcold @9.1.4    2 weeks ago
Have always prided myself on never lying. Never had to.

If true, you must have little respect for the feelings of others.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
9.1.6  Tessylo  replied to  cjcold @9.1.2    2 weeks ago

So many magats ignore reality.

 
 
 
GregTx
Professor Guide
9.1.7  seeder  GregTx  replied to  Tessylo @9.1.6    2 weeks ago

Please, it's dripping now.. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
9.1.8  Tessylo  replied to  GregTx @9.1.7    2 weeks ago

PD&D+denial+delusion sums magats up and endless defense of the indefensible, endless

 
 
 
GregTx
Professor Guide
9.1.9  seeder  GregTx  replied to  Tessylo @9.1.8    2 weeks ago

Right....

512

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
9.1.10  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Tessylo @9.1.8    2 weeks ago

[deleted][]

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
9.1.11  cjcold  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @9.1.5    2 weeks ago

[]

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Junior Expert
9.1.12  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  cjcold @9.1.11    2 weeks ago

[removed][]

 
 
 
Dragon
Freshman Silent
10  Dragon    2 weeks ago

I've gone from "never Trump" to "HELL NO, never Trump!".

 
 

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