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Texan1211

Election 2024

  
By:  Texan1211  •  Politics  •  2 months ago  •  172 comments

Election 2024

Some folks plan on voting for Trump, some plan on voting for Biden.

Please wake up and realize you are voting for continued failure.

No amount of justification can change the fact you are planning to vote for someone who isn't good for the country.

Almost any time a voter feels he or she needs to "justify" their choice, it lets me know they really don't have good reasons and are just being partisan hacks. One should feel proud of their vote, not shamed into justification.

I don't expect to change the most stubborn minds about it, I am not optimistic about it ever penetrating the fog of partisanship.

I have been called a "GOP loyalist" (although reason tells us I would be voting for Trump IF that were the case) while being able to restrain myself from telling others that they are Democratic loyalists based solely on their vote for Biden, no matter the excuses given.

People need to realize that you may vote for anyone you wish, you aren't stuck with voting for your party member--especially when you KNOW they are bad for the country.

Time to put country first and party loyalty second.

Wake up, folks, don't perpetuate the same cycle and then complain about partisanship. That is an intellectually lazy argument and doesn't make sense for America.

A vote for Trump or Biden is irrational, insane, and unpatriotic.

Do better.

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Any fascist references will be deleted. Memes MUST be on topic.


 
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Texan1211
Professor Principal
1  author  Texan1211    2 months ago

If you like the stupid things that Trump says often, by all means vote for him.

If you like persistent inflation and a fucked-up border, by all means vote for Biden.

Your vote for either one is a waste.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
1.1  Greg Jones  replied to  Texan1211 @1    2 months ago

I totally agree, but the results are real and long lasting. Knowing that the hard-core Dems will fall in lockstep to support Biden, remaining in power being their only goal, instead of doing what's best for our country, my choice is clear.

 
 
 
Gazoo
Junior Silent
1.2  Gazoo  replied to  Texan1211 @1    2 months ago

Trump does say some stupid things but the country was doing much better under him than under biden or obama. As Greg says, my choice is clear.

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
1.2.1  cjcold  replied to  Gazoo @1.2    2 months ago

The economy under Obama was great. As soon as Trump came into power the economy went into the toilet.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
1.2.2  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  cjcold @1.2.1    2 months ago
hings but the country was doing much better under him than under biden or obama.

That's odd.  It wasn't until Traitor Joe that inflation hit record highs.  It wasn't until Traitor Joe that spending skyrocketed (Trillions to other countries).  

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
1.2.3  JBB  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @1.2.2    2 months ago

Trump and MAGA are responsible for a record number of lies!

original

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
1.2.4  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  JBB @1.2.3    2 months ago

No link?  Recommend you back up your opinion with fact.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
1.2.5  Right Down the Center  replied to  JBB @1.2.3    2 months ago
Trump and MAGA are responsible for a record number of lies!

Karine Jean-Pierre has them all beat

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
1.2.6  Sparty On  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @1.2.4    2 months ago

512

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
1.2.7  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Right Down the Center @1.2.5    2 months ago
Trump and MAGA are responsible for a record number of lies!

Looks like somebody hasn't been paying attention to reality.  

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
1.2.8  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Sparty On @1.2.6    2 months ago

Can't say we're surprised.  Just another day ending with a "Y".

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
1.2.9  Right Down the Center  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @1.2.4    2 months ago
Recommend you back up your opinion with fact.

FACT? We don't  need no stinking fact.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
1.2.10  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Right Down the Center @1.2.9    2 months ago

jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
2  evilone    2 months ago

I like the idea, but it won't work. At least not yet.

The sheer number of "likely voters" are party members and will vote for whomever is their party nominee. Making them change their mind is like running through neck deep cement. Offsetting those numbers with Independent votes is also an effort in futility which ends up for many to a choice of voting against Trump or Biden.

Until a 3rd party candidate comes along that can peel away enough of those (otherwise) dedicated party voters in early enough polling this is a lost cause. We should be using more of our energy to find and promote those people.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1  author  Texan1211  replied to  evilone @2    2 months ago
I like the idea, but it won't work. At least not yet.

I like the idea and am willing to put my vote where my mouth is.

Far too many are simply resigned to vote for mediocrity or even worse, vote against someone no matter how bad the person they actually vote FOR is.

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
2.1.1  evilone  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1    2 months ago
I like the idea and am willing to put my vote where my mouth is.

Then why isn't this blog article an appeal to whom with should vote FOR, rather than an appeal to not vote for either Trump or Biden? 

You are basically making the same argument that I am, just including both major parties whereas I'm arguing I'd rather do everything I can to make sure Trump doesn't get elected. I don't see Biden as a boogieman that you do, obviously. I don't like him and would rather have a viable moderate right candidate, but Haley (who isn't really moderate, but as close as we're going to get anytime soon) won't make it to my WI Primary. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.2  author  Texan1211  replied to  evilone @2.1.1    2 months ago
Then why isn't this blog article an appeal to whom with should vote FOR, rather than an appeal to not vote for either Trump or Biden?

I can only speak for myself and what I will do.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
2.1.3  Sparty On  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.2    2 months ago

How old are you Tex?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.4  author  Texan1211  replied to  Sparty On @2.1.3    2 months ago

65

 
 
 
Igknorantzruls
Freshman Silent
2.1.5  Igknorantzruls  replied to  Sparty On @2.1.3    2 months ago

slow down, he's married

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
2.1.6  Sparty On  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.4    2 months ago

Interesting, I guessed you were younger.    Have you ever voted independent in the Presidential election?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.7  author  Texan1211  replied to  Sparty On @2.1.6    2 months ago

Once, in '96.

Couldn't stand Clinton and didn't particularly like Dole.

Perot seemed to be a real fiscal conservative, something in far too short supply in DC.

Somehow that must mean I stood by and let others decide.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
2.1.8  Sparty On  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.7    2 months ago

I think Perot had a real chance had he not gotten out and then jumped back in.    That disillusioned a lot of voters.

Anderson not so much.    That was in my wild college days.

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
2.1.9  evilone  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.2    2 months ago
I can only speak for myself and what I will do.

But you aren't making a persuasive argument to sway me, which is what I presume was your intention. I too would rather vote for someone, rather than against someone. Who should that be and why? 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.10  author  Texan1211  replied to  Sparty On @2.1.8    2 months ago
I think Perot had a real chance had he not gotten out and then jumped back in.    That disillusioned a lot of voters.

I think that was in '92.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.11  author  Texan1211  replied to  evilone @2.1.9    2 months ago

it isn't my place to tell anyone who to vote for.

I do not mind pointing out the idiocy of voting for Trump or Biden, though!

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.1.12  JohnRussell  replied to  evilone @2.1.9    2 months ago
But you aren't making a persuasive argument to sway me, which is what I presume was your intention.

The intention was to promote third party voting in the presidential election. Thus making Trump's election more likely.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.13  author  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.12    2 months ago
The intention was to promote third party voting in the presidential election. Thus making Trump's election more likely.

You are completely wrong in your assessment.

The POINT was to get people to think about the choices they make.

Not everyone got that point, clearly.

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
2.1.14  evilone  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.12    2 months ago
The intention was to...

He has always maintained he would go 3rd party and I have no reason to dismiss his choice any more than I do your choice.

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
2.1.15  evilone  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.11    2 months ago
...it isn't my place to tell anyone who to vote for.

Then I still have no reason to dismiss voting against Trump and voting for Biden is the only meaningful way to do so.

I do not mind pointing out the idiocy of voting for Trump or Biden, though!

Then we have a major differing of opinion as I find Trump (or at least his base) as pulling the country in the direction of authoritarianism and Biden as just a shitty run-of-the-mill politician.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.1.16  JohnRussell  replied to  evilone @2.1.14    2 months ago

He has no criteria for a third party candidate to meet to get his vote. He just wants people to vote third party. The intention is as plain as day. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.17  author  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.16    2 months ago

Stop misrepresenting what is clear in my posts.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.1.18  TᵢG  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.16    2 months ago

My hypothesis is that the intent is merely to be able to say:  "Do not blame me, I did not vote for the guy".   

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.1.19  JohnRussell  replied to  TᵢG @2.1.18    2 months ago
My hypothesis is that the intent is merely to be able to say:  "Do not blame me, I did not vote for the guy".   

That is something you would say after the election not before.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.20  author  Texan1211  replied to  TᵢG @2.1.18    2 months ago

Your and his hypothesis is just dead wrong.

In fact, couldn't be farther from the truth.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
2.1.21  Sparty On  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.10    2 months ago

Yep, Anderson was 1980

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
2.1.22  Right Down the Center  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.17    2 months ago

Seems to be an epidemic

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
2.1.23  Sparty On  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.13    2 months ago

I get the point, I’ve gotten the point at least twice.    My point is it doesn’t necessarily support your best interests, whatever they may be based on the person you AREN’T voting for.    

Been there, done that.

Four more years of this shit could be the undoing of this union imo.

Taking the high road in your mind may take you down the low road.    YMMV but that is it in a nutshell.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.24  author  Texan1211  replied to  Right Down the Center @2.1.22    2 months ago

Reagan................had it right.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.25  author  Texan1211  replied to  Sparty On @2.1.23    2 months ago

That is a possibility, just as returning Trump or Biden can lead down to the downfall of the country.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.1.26  TᵢG  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.25    2 months ago

Face reality, we are almost certainly going to be stuck with Biden v Trump.

If so, then whoever you would claim to vote for (other than those two) will not win.  

By all means, I support your decision to not vote for Trump.  

So who deserves your vote?   Anyone?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.27  author  Texan1211  replied to  TᵢG @2.1.26    2 months ago
Face reality, we are almost certainly going to be stuck with Biden v Trump.

How trite.

If so, then whoever you would claim to vote for (other than those two) will not win.  

Yes, that is precisely what the math tell us.

Since you claim it is inevitable, I can live with my vote and know that I didn't support either one of the losers under ANY pretense.

Maybe when enough patriotic Americans follow suit, we can get some competent leadership instead of the majority settling for losers.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
2.1.28  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Igknorantzruls @2.1.5    2 months ago
"slow down, he's married"

jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.1.29  TᵢG  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.27    2 months ago
Maybe when enough patriotic Americans follow suit, we can get some competent leadership instead of the majority settling for losers.

History proves that this is wishful thinking.

Without a charismatic candidate hosted by a well-funded, well-organized third party, voting third party is like tossing a coin into a wishing well.

Gotta build a viable third party first.   Then you vote for it.   Which third party is viable in your reality?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.30  author  Texan1211  replied to  TᵢG @2.1.29    2 months ago
History proves that this is wishful thinking.

You may be right about that.

Lots of folks voting for the very same folks they complain about.

Lots of folks voting for candidates they KNOW aren't good for the country.

Lots of people exhibiting they don't give a damn as long as a Democrat or Republican wins.

Lots of people thinking you can build a party without a candidate.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3  TᵢG    2 months ago
No amount of justification can change the fact you are planning to vote for someone who isn't good for the country.

As it stands right now, one of these two is going to be PotUS.   

Unless one is incapable of determining which individual is worse for the nation (a failure in analytical reasoning) the refusal to take a stand leaves this important decision to others.   

A vote for Trump or Biden is irrational, insane, and unpatriotic.  

There are plenty of GOP members in this forum who have stated they will vote for Trump.   You are telling these GOP members that their votes are irrational, insane, and unpatriotic.    

I wonder if they will have the temerity to rebut your allegation.   Or will they just vote it up and then vote for Trump?

Do better.

By voting third party?   In 2024 that accomplishes nothing.   Our nation has had third parties for our entire lifetimes.   The best they have done is serve as a spoiler for the main parties.

There is no viable third party in 2024.   Your vote for a third party will not cause one to magically emerge.   Note that the Libertarian party is 50 years old.

You can abstain, vote third party, or write-in.   But in terms of effect, you are just kidding yourself.   That is irrational.


Voting third party would be constructive if we had a viable third party.   A viable third party would have a well-funded, organized, effective political machine and, importantly, a charismatic candidate who would attract votes from the D and R parties.

We have nothing like that.   We have never had anything like that in our lifetimes.   And until we have a viable third party, voting third party will make one feel good, but it accomplishes nothing other than potentially serve as a spoiler.   The viable party must first exist and THEN you vote for its candidate.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.1  author  Texan1211  replied to  TᵢG @3    2 months ago
As it stands right now, one of these two is going to be PotUS.

Probably correct, far too many people willing to settle on their choice and far too few people who realize a vote for either is a vote for continued failure.

Unless one is incapable of determining which individual is worse for the nation (a failure in analytical reasoning) the refusal to take a stand leaves this important decision to others.  

A few folks can look at the two major candidates and know they are both bad for the country, and know that bad is bad and how utterly ignorant it really is to knowingly vote for continued failure by voting for the lesser of two evils instead of standing up and voting for someone who you think can do a good job instead of  doing the job slightly better than the other loser. If one votes with integrity, one isn't leaving the decision up to others. Using your favored scenario, anyone voting for the election loser "left it up to others", which, of course, is simply ludicrous.

A vote for either is insane, irrational, and unpatriotic, and NO, I don't give a shit if some Trump supporters care or if some Biden supporters care.

The way your post reads is you are happy and content to vote for Biden even though in the past you have acknowledged his shortcomings.  As though you are happily resigned to voting for the lesser of two evils at all times. As though partisanship is far more important than what is good for the nation.

Throw up your hands, say nothing can be done, and vote for Biden, hurrah!

I refuse to be so pessimistic or to sell my vote because I don't like the other guy more than I think my guy is good for the country.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.1  TᵢG  replied to  Texan1211 @3.1    2 months ago
Probably correct, far too many people willing to settle on their choice and far too few people who realize a vote for either is a vote for continued failure.

This is reality.   If we have Biden v. Trump, one of those two will be elected president.   

A few folks can look at the two major candidates and know they are both bad for the country,  ...

You continue to pretend that since both are bad for the nation that they are equally bad.   That is a profound failure of reasoning.   It is near impossible for two bad candidates to be equally bad.   So if one is going to be elected, it is best to elect the better of the two.

A vote for either is insane, irrational, and unpatriotic, and NO, I don't give a shit if some Trump supporters care or if some Biden supporters care.

Do none of the Trump intended voters have the guts to challenge your allegation?

The way your post reads is you are happy and content to vote for Biden ...

That is a demonstrable lie.   I have stated clearly that I do not want Biden for PotUS.   You translate that into me being "happy and content" to vote for Biden is a pathetic lie.   This is a small forum, most everyone knows that this is a lie.   

I refuse to be so pessimistic or to sell my vote because I don't like the other guy more than I think my guy is good for the country.

Sure, you just pretend that Biden and Trump are equally bad and then leave it to others to act so that you get to claim: "I did not vote for that guy".    No you did not vote for that guy, you sat on the safe sidelines.

 
 
 
Igknorantzruls
Freshman Silent
3.1.2  Igknorantzruls  replied to  TᵢG @3.1.1    2 months ago
  No you did not vote for that guy, you sat on the safe sidelines.

of this, after reading so many posts, I believe to be the hollow boast, 

given to attempt to persuade Biden Likely's, to help his somehow always in some way,

defense of Trump, the candidate he'd definitely prefer to hump, 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.1.3  author  Texan1211  replied to  TᵢG @3.1.1    2 months ago
This is reality.   If we have Biden v. Trump, one of those two will be elected president. 

Yes, because many people are partisan hacks and will vote for one of them no matter the harm it does to the country.

You continue to pretend that since both are bad for the nation that they are equally bad. 

I am certainly not the one pretending here as I have eyes and ears and KNOW neither is good for the nation.  I know some folks like to pretend differently or "justify" their selection because their guy isn't as bad as the other.

Do none of the Trump intended voters have the guts to challenge your allegation?

Don't know. Don't care. Don't understand why you keep asking ME that question--ask someone voting for Trump. Do you have the guts to challenge the allegation based on your vote for Biden?

That is a demonstrable lie.   I have stated clearly that I do not want Biden for PotUS. 

Yes, I have seen your claim multiple times, usually right before you say you will be voting for him. A vote for someone is support for that person.

You translate that into me being "happy and content" to vote for Biden is a pathetic lie.

You have often stated that you will vote for Biden if it is Trump vs. Biden. if you are truly unhappy with your choice--change it! That would be real proof.

This is a small forum, most everyone knows that this is a lie.

It is a small forum, and most probably know how you will vote.

Sure, you just pretend that Biden and Trump are equally bad and then leave it to others to act so that you get to claim: "I did not vote for that guy". 

Again ( sigh this is getting old), not pretending a thing. Just not going to vote for someone I think is bad for the nation, and will not stoop to justifying a vote for failure.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.4  TᵢG  replied to  Texan1211 @3.1.3    2 months ago
Yes, because many people are partisan hacks and will vote for one of them no matter the harm it does to the country.

So anyone in this forum who votes for Trump is a partisan hack who is harming the country?

And how do you not harm the country by leaving this up to others?   The nation will be harmed no matter what you do, so you leaving this decision to others does not help.

Yes, I have seen your claim multiple times ...

That is a lie.   I have never even implied that I want Biden for PotUS; I want Haley for PotUS.   I have explicitly, repeatedly stated that neither Biden nor Trump should be PotUS.   A blatant lie from you, now repeated.

You have often stated that you will vote for Biden if it is Trump vs. Biden. 

Yes.   I will use my vote the best I can to help prevent Trump from being PotUS.   That is not, in any way, an endorsement of Biden nor does it in any way imply that I would by "happy and content" to vote for Biden.   

Penning lies in lieu of an argument is pathetic.

Again ( sigh this is getting old), not pretending a thing.

If you can ascertain that one of the two is worse for this nation, and you realize that one of them will be PotUS, why not take a stand?   Answer:  so that you can stand on the sidelines and be able to claim:  "Do not blame me, I did not vote for him".

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.1.5  author  Texan1211  replied to  TᵢG @3.1.4    2 months ago
So anyone in this forum who votes for Trump is a partisan hack who is harming the country?

I really don't know how to make this any clearer than I what I have REPEATEDLY told you.

IMO, YES, any vote for Trump or Biden are done by partisan hacks and is unpatriotic, irrational, and insane. 

How is that unclear to you at this point assuming you have READ my posts?

And how do you not harm the country by leaving this up to others?   The nation will be harmed no matter what you do, so you leaving this decision to others does not help.

AGAIN, (SIGH!!!), I am not sitting this one out--as I have made abundantly clear to anyone reading my posts. Using your rather obvious and dubious "logic", people not voting for the winner wasted their vote and could have just sat it out.

How does your vote for Biden HELP the country? What policies of Biden's are so great for America? What has he accomplished that someone else couldn't have? What DIFFERENCE has Biden made to warrant your continued support and vote?

That is a lie.   I have never even implied that I want Biden for PotUS; I want Haley for PotUS.   I have explicitly, repeatedly stated that neither Biden nor Trump should be PotUS.   A blatant lie from you, now repeated.

No lie there. I have often and repeatedly acknowledged your claim to want Haley and pointed out your vote for Biden. You SAY Biden shouldn't be President but will still vote for him. That is simply illogical to me.

Yes.   I will use my vote the best I can to help prevent Trump from being PotUS.   That is not, in any way, an endorsement of Biden nor does it in any way imply that I would by "happy and content" to vote for Biden. 

Your oft-repeated claim that a vote for someone isn't support is just illogical and ludicrous.

If you aren't happy with voting for Biden--CHANGE IT!

Penning lies in lieu of an argument is pathetic.

I go by the entirety of your posting history. If you don't want to give the impression that you are happy to vote for Biden, then don't keep saying you are going to be voting for him.

why not take a stand?

After explaining this numerous times now, I refuse to humor you any longer. I have explained to over and over to you. Whether you choose to read my answer or accept it isn't my problem, but knowingly misrepresenting my position is a losing proposition.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
3.1.6  Right Down the Center  replied to  TᵢG @3.1.1    2 months ago
you get to claim: "I did not vote for that guy"

As opposed to " Yea, I know I voted for that guy and he accidently started WW3 but I didn't actually want him to be president!".

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
3.1.7  Right Down the Center  replied to  Texan1211 @3.1    2 months ago
Throw up your hands, say nothing can be done, and vote for Biden, hurrah!

My hypothesis is some will vote for Biden and when he tanks their rational will be how much worse it would have been if Trump won.  

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.1.8  author  Texan1211  replied to  Right Down the Center @3.1.7    2 months ago
My hypothesis is some will vote for Biden and when he tanks their rational will be how much worse it would have been if Trump won.  

The projection is strong in some!

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
3.1.9  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Texan1211 @3.1    2 months ago

It's not a myth that American voters can be irrational.  After all, for lesser political positions they have successfully installed dogs and goats into office.  Personally I would vote for integrity, something many American voters seem to ignore, but then so do a lot of the politicians they vote for.  I would also vote for brilliance and competence, which I feel I did when I voted for Justin's father but have no admiration whatsoever for Justin.  I learned long ago in High School that popularity contests determine people's choices. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.1.10  author  Texan1211  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3.1.9    2 months ago
It's not a myth that American voters can be irrational.

I agree 100% with that.

You can even see it on these pages every single day.

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
3.2  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  TᵢG @3    2 months ago
As it stands right now, one of these two is going to be PotUS.   

I have my doubts , which is why i keep saying i will wait and see what the finalized ballot is in Nov

I remember us talking about a month or so ago about what it would take and maybe who would possibly  replace biden  and under what circumstances , I remember pointing out there was a possibility he could step down for health issues prior to the dem convention .

I chalked it up then as about as likely as my 2016 prediction that the country would have a series of single term presidents .

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
3.2.1  George  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @3.2    2 months ago
i will wait and see what the finalized ballot is in Nov

This is one of my main sticking points when it comes to the democrat ticket, we have them telling us it is okay for Kamala to be a slip on AF1 away from being president, but no indication that she is competent enough to run for president from democrats, that disqualifies any ticket she is on IMO, either she is fit to be president or she isn't. 

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
3.2.2  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  George @3.2.1    2 months ago

Cross that bridge if and when it is arrived at .

IF it came to it she would have to run on her own record , and everyone will judge it using their own metrics .

 I view the Vice presidency as having 3 jobs , one is president of the senate , the other is to be the actual presidents cheer leader  for the policies desired by that president , the last well i have yet to see a VP anyone would really be happy to slip into the presidency  in case something happened to the president , i call that being assassination insurance, no one will do that if the next in line is considered an order of magnitude WORSE than whats already there .

think about any VP in the past 40 years , would any of them really have been desirable to take the top office if something happened to the main person ? , 

simply look at the list of VPs Gore , Cheney , Biden , Pense , and Harris .and who they served under .

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
3.2.3  George  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @3.2.2    2 months ago
i call that being assassination insurance,

LOL, that logic leads to the democrats assassinating the country by electing the insurance policy.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
3.3  Right Down the Center  replied to  TᵢG @3    2 months ago
Unless one is incapable of determining which individual is worse for the nation (a failure in analytical reasoning) the refusal to take a stand leaves this important decision to others.   

Agree.  Based on past presidential performance (and the unknown Trump legal issue verdicts) there is a 90+ % chance Biden will continue  his war on Americans and continue to fuck up the nation prioritizing people that check boxes and are illegally entering the country (not to mention be happy with 4 % inflation rate because it is down from 8 % and lying daily) and a less than 1% chance Trump will do away with Democracy as we know it.  Non biased analytical critical thinking is clear.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.3.1  TᵢG  replied to  Right Down the Center @3.3    2 months ago

Do you have any non-biased analytical critical thinking that illustrates negatives for Trump or is your "non-biased analytical critical thinking" strictly limited to negatives on Biden?

 
 
 
Igknorantzruls
Freshman Silent
3.3.2  Igknorantzruls  replied to  TᵢG @3.3.1    2 months ago

one should not hold ones breath with this one

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
3.3.3  Right Down the Center  replied to  TᵢG @3.3.1    2 months ago

Nope. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.3.4  TᵢG  replied to  Right Down the Center @3.3.3    2 months ago

Well at least you gave an honest answer.

Then you clearly are one of those who sees a distinction in bad between Biden and Trump.    To wit, you can determine who (if Biden v Trump) would be worse for the nation.   

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
3.3.5  Right Down the Center  replied to  TᵢG @3.3.4    2 months ago

I also say the degree of bad is not relevant 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.3.6  author  Texan1211  replied to  Right Down the Center @3.3.5    2 months ago
I also say the degree of bad is not relevant 

Right on!

Bad is bad.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.3.7  TᵢG  replied to  Right Down the Center @3.3.5    2 months ago
I also say the degree of bad is not relevant 

It is always relevant.

In every election, there are candidates who are imperfect.   Rarely would a voter find a candidate who is perfect in their eyes.   Thus those who actually vote will make a choice that considers the bad qualities of the candidates as well as the good.

It is disingenuous to claim that the degree of bad is irrelevant when choosing a presidential candidate.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.3.8  author  Texan1211  replied to  TᵢG @3.3.7    2 months ago
It is disingenuous to claim that the degree of bad is irrelevant when choosing a presidential candidate.

Not when one is honest enough to admit when a candidate isn't deserving of a vote no matter how it may be later justified.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
3.3.9  Right Down the Center  replied to  TᵢG @3.3.7    2 months ago
In every election, there are candidates who are imperfect.   Rarely would a voter find a candidate who is perfect in their eyes. 

Who said anything about needing a perfect candidate?  Oh that's right, that would be you.

If a candidates good qualities outweigh his bad he can be considered a good candidate.

If a candidate good qualities are outweighed by his bad he can be considered a bad candidate.

The degree of bad in two bad candidates is irrelevant, they are bad. I find it hard to believe that had to be explained.

Of course I have been married for almost 40 years and have raised two wonderful women so I have some real life experience seeing when some folks just want to argue for the sake of arguing, that is what I see here.

That being said I will bid you adieu.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.3.10  TᵢG  replied to  Right Down the Center @3.3.9    2 months ago
Who said anything about needing a perfect candidate? 

I did not suggest you stated that.   Attempt to understand a post that does not literally repeat your exact words in reply.

The fact that no candidate is perfect means that every candidate has bad qualities.   That we always have to deal with elements that are, in our opinion, bad for the nation.   Or, as I wrote in my post:

TiG@3.3.7In every election, there are candidates who are imperfect.   Rarely would a voter find a candidate who is perfect in their eyes.   Thus those who actually vote will make a choice that considers the bad qualities of the candidates as well as the good.

Being stuck with two candidates that are bad is not an excuse for running from the decision and leaving it up to others.   Unless, of course, one cannot distinguish between the two and actually believe they are identically bad for the nation.

If a candidates good qualities outweigh his bad he can be considered a good candidate.   If a candidate good qualities are outweighed by his bad he can be considered a bad candidate.

Do you somehow think that I have stated otherwise?   If so, this is another fundamental failure in reading on your part.

The degree of bad in two bad candidates is irrelevant, they are bad.

Again, the premise has been that both candidates are bad for the nation.   You are arguing a strawman.   


The point is this:   Given two bad candidates where one will be elected PotUS, does it make sense to minimize the harm to the nation by picking the better of the two?   Or should one do nothing to affect the outcome and just hope that those who do make the decisions minimize the harm to the nation?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.3.11  JohnRussell  replied to  TᵢG @3.3.10    2 months ago

Sadly, your conversation with these guys is absurd. 

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
3.3.12  Right Down the Center  replied to  JohnRussell @3.3.11    2 months ago
conversation

Bloviation may be a more accurate term.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
4  Sparty On    2 months ago
Do better.

I did better once and it got Clinton elected the first time.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4.1  author  Texan1211  replied to  Sparty On @4    2 months ago
I did better once and it got Clinton elected the first time.

if we always do what we have always done, we will always get what we have gotten in the past.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
4.1.1  Sparty On  replied to  Texan1211 @4.1    2 months ago

I hear you and I’ve been there, done that.    The guy got nearly 20% of the popular vote and ZERO electoral votes.

I wasted my vote that year and swore never again.    People like me vote third party in 2024 and Biden wins.    I have zero doubt of that …..

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.2  TᵢG  replied to  Sparty On @4.1.1    2 months ago
People like me vote third party in 2024 and Biden wins.

Yes, one who would vote for Trump but instead votes third party is helping Biden win.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1.3  JohnRussell  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.2    2 months ago

Tig, we have to just admit that our country is fucked. There are simply too many people who think a second Trump administration will be harmless, if not okey dokey. Our national honor is kaput. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4.1.4  author  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.3    2 months ago
Tig, we have to just admit that our country is fucked.

It may very well be, and we can thank people insisting that voting for the lesser of two evils is a viable option at least in part for it.

 
 
 
Gazoo
Junior Silent
4.1.5  Gazoo  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.3    2 months ago

There are simply too many people who think a second Trump administration will be harmless,”

What harm will a second trump presidency do to the nation?

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
4.1.6  Right Down the Center  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.3    2 months ago
we have to just admit that our country is fucked.

If the two likely candidates are the best the country has to offer then fucked is an understatement.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4.1.7  author  Texan1211  replied to  Right Down the Center @4.1.6    2 months ago
If the two likely candidates are the best the country has to offer then fucked is an understatement.

True!

And because we as a nation will vote for one of them to be our next President, we are stuck on stupid and deserve everything we get from one of the clowns.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
4.1.8  Right Down the Center  replied to  Texan1211 @4.1.7    2 months ago
we are stuck on stupid

If we keep playing their game it should not be surprising that they keep feeding us the same shit.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4.1.9  author  Texan1211  replied to  Right Down the Center @4.1.8    2 months ago
If we keep playing their game it should not be surprising that they keep feeding us the same shit.

The only thing really surprising is that we have been served a shit sandwich and some are demanding seconds!

WTF are they THINKING????

 
 
 
Igknorantzruls
Freshman Silent
4.2  Igknorantzruls  replied to  Sparty On @4    2 months ago
I did better once and it got Clinton elected the first time.

A close shave off that Bush, the Perot way did take you did it ?

Not too many Trumpetts will blow anyone butt Trump,

and for so many anti Trumpettes, a 3rd party or abstaination, could and would leave only ANOTHER 

permanent Orange Stain, on our once great nation...

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4.2.1  author  Texan1211  replied to  Igknorantzruls @4.2    2 months ago
a 3rd party or abstaination, could and would leave only ANOTHER  permanent Orange Stain, on our once great nation.

That is an excellent example of how bad the candidate Biden is if you really believe a third party candidate is a threat to Biden.

 
 
 
Igknorantzruls
Freshman Silent
4.2.2  Igknorantzruls  replied to  Texan1211 @4.2.1    2 months ago

yes

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4.2.3  author  Texan1211  replied to  Igknorantzruls @4.2.2    2 months ago

You say yes but still will vote for Biden.

That is senseless to me.

 
 
 
Igknorantzruls
Freshman Silent
4.2.4  Igknorantzruls  replied to  Texan1211 @4.2.3    2 months ago
That is senseless to me.

as is much of what you attempt to reason to me

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4.2.5  author  Texan1211  replied to  Igknorantzruls @4.2.4    2 months ago

You agree that Biden is such a poor candidate that third party-voters may take votes away from him, but you will still willingly vote for him. That is indeed illogical.

 
 
 
Igknorantzruls
Freshman Silent
4.2.6  Igknorantzruls  replied to  Texan1211 @4.2.5    2 months ago

yea, okay Spock

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
4.2.7  Sparty On  replied to  Igknorantzruls @4.2    2 months ago

Just keep goober in a fresh set of depends, empty his drool bucket every so often and you should be good to go    He counts on his Bidenettes for that.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4.2.8  author  Texan1211  replied to  Igknorantzruls @4.2.6    2 months ago
yea, okay Spock

I am indeed sorry logic is reduced to a fantasy show for you, as your comments prove.

 
 
 
Igknorantzruls
Freshman Silent
4.2.9  Igknorantzruls  replied to  Texan1211 @4.2.8    2 months ago

show me your logic skills and answer my question posed to you , Jim, and Greg please in my post 6.3.9

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4.2.10  author  Texan1211  replied to  Igknorantzruls @4.2.9    2 months ago
show me your logic skills and answer my question posed to you , Jim, and Greg please in my post 6.3.9

Already did before you wrote this post.

READ!

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
5  Ronin2    2 months ago

Before 2016 I would have agreed with you. Sentimentally wise I still do.

I never voted for the "lesser of two evils". I always took what I thought was the best candidate regardless of party. I usually voted libertarian or independent- but I would also split votes evenly between Democrats and Republicans if I felt someone was worthy. (I voted for Bill Clinton second term. It is the one vote I truly regret. Yes, he made me believe there was a vast right wing conspiracy. Then as the facts came out I felt twice as stupid.).

After 2016 I have learned that some evil just can't be overlooked. What the Democrats have put this country through over the last seven years and counting is unforgivable. They need to be held fully accountable; or at the very least be removed from power until their moles and cronies in the FBI/CIA/IRS/DOJ are removed. 

I can't stand Trump; but I am counting on him to be more than just talk. If he pisses off Democrats/leftists while cleaning house in the federal government; securing the border; getting us the hell out of Syria/Iraq; ending all money to Ukraine (I would like to say Israel (and the Palestinians) but that will never happen. At least for Israel); putting Iran back un sanctions and a full blockade/embargo; and stopping Bidenomics (which is really inflationomics) - so much the better. 

If Haley somehow ends up the Republican nominee I will hold my nose and vote for her. Knowing full well that nothing will be done to clean up Democrat control of the FBI/CIA/IRS/DOJ. The last 7 plus years will be swept under the rug and forgotten like it never happened.  But at least Democrats will be out of power. Maybe, just maybe, she will be able to do something about the border, illegal immigration, and inflation. Our foreign policy will be stuck on stupid- like it is with all Establishment presidents.

This country has a major problem that there are only two parties that can win. No third party stands a chance. Gary Johnson (who I even campaigned for in 2016) couldn't even crack 10% of the popular vote. The closest any third party ever came to winning was Ross Perot; and he didn't even nab 1 single electoral vote. He merely played spoiler to Bush Sr and allowed Clinton to win.

Take a look at the third party candidates running in 2024. See any winners in there? Anyone really deserving a vote? 

Sure Forward hasn't announced their candidates yet; but there is no guarantee that they will even be on the ballot in every state- even if they manage to come up with a nominee. 

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
5.1  A. Macarthur  replied to  Ronin2 @5    2 months ago
After 2016 I have learned that some evil just can't be overlooked. What the Democrats have put this country through over the last seven years and counting is unforgivable. They need to be held fully accountable; or at the very least be removed from power until their moles and cronies in the FBI/CIA/IRS/DOJ are removed. 

Be specific; summarily making allegations and dismissive "arguments" doesn't cut it. Give me one-by-one, SPECIFIC thigs "Democrats have put this country through over the last seven years (4 of which wetre Trump years). Let's go point-counter-point.

Meanwhile, I'll give you the last 3 BIDEN years; for starters.

1. Passed the $1.2 trillion bipartisan infrastructure package to increase investment in the national network of bridges and roads, airports, public transport and national broadband internet, as well as waterways and energy systems. 

2. Helped get more than 500 million life-saving COVID-19 vaccinations in the arms of Americans through the American Rescue Plan. 

3. Stopped a 30-year streak of federal inaction on gun violence by signing the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act that created enhanced background checks, closed the “boyfriend” loophole, and provided funds for youth mental health. 

4. Made a $369 billion investment in climate change, the largest in American history, through the Inflation Reduction Act of 2022. 

5. Ended the longest war in American history by pulling the troops out of Afghanistan.

6. Provided $10,000 to $20,000 in college debt relief to Americans with loans who make under $125,000 a year. This was struck down but the Supreme Court, however, the administration has announced a new plan to forgive billions in loans that were qualified under special programs but not done due to DOE mismanagement in previous years. Read the article above) 

7. Cut child poverty in half through the American Rescue Plan. 

8. Capped prescription drug prices at $2,000 per year for seniors on Medicare through the Inflation Reduction Act. 

9. Passed the COVID-19 relief deal that provided payments of up to $1,400 to many struggling U.S. citizens while supporting renters and increasing unemployment benefits. 

10. Achieved historically low unemployment rates after the pandemic caused them to skyrocket. 

11. Imposed a 15% minimum corporate tax on some of the largest corporations in the country, ensuring that they pay their fair share, as part of the historic Inflation Reduction Act.

12. Recommitted America to the global fight against climate change by rejoining the Paris Agreement. 

13. Strengthened the NATO alliance in support of Ukraine after the Russian invasion by endorsing the inclusion of world military powers Sweden and Finland. 

14. Authorized the assassination of the Al Qaeda terrorist Ayman al-Zawahiri, who became head of the organization after the death of Osama bin Laden. 

15. Gave Medicare the power to negotiate prescription drug prices through the Inflation Reduction Act while also reducing government health spending.

16. Held Vladimir Putin accountable for his invasion of Ukraine by imposing stiff economic sanctions. 

17. Boosted the budget of the Internal Revenue Service by nearly $80 billion to reduce tax evasion and increase revenue. 

18. Created more jobs in one year (6.6 million) than any other president in U.S. history. 

19. Reduced healthcare premiums under the Affordable Care Act by $800 a year as part of the American Rescue Plan. 

20. Signed the PACT Act to address service members’ exposure to burn pits and other toxins. 

21. Signed the CHIPS and Science Act to strengthen American manufacturing and innovation. 

22. Reauthorized the Violence Against Women Act through 2027. 

23. Halted all federal executions after the previous administration reinstated them after a 17-year freeze 

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
6  George    2 months ago

Putin has said that Biden is better for russia, so a vote for Biden is a vote for Putin. or we can try something new and send a message to the 2 major parties and pick the 3rd option.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
6.1  author  Texan1211  replied to  George @6    2 months ago
or we can try something new and send a message to the 2 major parties and pick the 3rd option.

Precisely.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
6.2  TᵢG  replied to  George @6    2 months ago
... send a message to the 2 major parties and pick the 3rd option.

Yeah, send another message.   Just as we have done our entire lifetimes.

The major parties do not care if people vote third party.   They only care that they win.   As long as their is no viable third party, the major parties will keep doing exactly what they have always done.   

Merely voting third party demonstrably does NOT magically create a viable third party.


One thing though, those who are GOP inclined who refuse to vote for Trump and instead vote third party might accomplish one thing — they might split the ticket enough to ensure a Biden win.   

Then they can thank people who vote as Texan claims he will vote.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
6.2.1  author  Texan1211  replied to  TᵢG @6.2    2 months ago
As long as their is no viable third party, the major parties will keep doing exactly what they have always done.   

As long as sheeple KEEP voting for one of the major parties, we will get the same old results.

Sometimes one has to BE the change they want to see happen instead of relying on others to do the heavy lifting for them.

And everyone can thank people like you who knowingly and willingly will vote for failure.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
6.2.2  TᵢG  replied to  Texan1211 @6.2.1    2 months ago
As long as sheeple KEEP voting for one of the major parties, we will get the same old results.

History shows that merely voting third party accomplishes nothing.   

Sometimes one has to BE the change they want to see happen instead of relying on others to do the heavy lifting for them.

Says the guy who refuses to take a stand and will leave the decision of picking the better of the worst to others.

And everyone can thank people like you who knowingly and willingly will vote for failure.

Your non-vote does not prevent Biden or Trump from being elected.   You leave the decision to others so that you will have the excuse of "I did not vote for the guy".   Others take a stand (do the heavy lifting) while you sit safely on the sidelines.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
6.2.3  author  Texan1211  replied to  TᵢG @6.2.2    2 months ago
History shows that merely voting third party accomplishes nothing.   

A strawman argument to justify your vote.

Says the guy who refuses to take a stand and will leave the decision of picking the better of the worst to others

No, says the guy with the integrity to vote for someone for the good of the country instead of basing my vote on who the two parties want us to vote for and throwing logic and reason out the window.  Answer this. Do voters who vote for the loser waste their vote?

Your non-vote does not prevent Biden or Trump from being elected.

Seriously? How many times must I tell you I will vote? Have you READ my posts? Does your vote for Biden prevent Trump from winning?

You leave the decision to others so that you will have the excuse of "I did not vote for the guy".   Others take a stand (do the heavy lifting) while you sit safely on the sidelines.

You keep repeating that lie and are willing to vote exactly how a major party wants you to and you have the actual temerity to talk to me about sitting it out despite KNOWING I will vote?  What heavy lifting are YOU doing beside the partisan heavy lifting of voting as they want you to?

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
6.2.4  Sparty On  replied to  Texan1211 @6.2.1    2 months ago

I used to be starry eyed and thought my vote for a third party would make a difference but I was shown otherwise in 1980 and 1992.    I also used to be adamantly against publicly funded elections but have been proven wrong there as well.    Until something is done to remove the stranglehold the two party system and big money currently has on our General Election system, voting for a third party is a wasted vote imo.

Like I said earlier, I hear what you’re saying and agree in concept but we are a long way away from being there and we certainly aren’t there yet for 2024.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
6.2.5  TᵢG  replied to  Sparty On @6.2.4    2 months ago
... we are a long way away from being there and we certainly aren’t there yet for 2024

Indeed.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
6.2.6  Right Down the Center  replied to  Texan1211 @6.2.3    2 months ago
No, says the guy with the integrity to vote for someone for the good of the country

I have never seen such vigorous fighting against integrity.  Hell, if someone said they voted for Trump or Biden because they thought they would be a good president I might disagree with their choice but would still applaud their honesty and integrity.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
6.2.7  author  Texan1211  replied to  Right Down the Center @6.2.6    2 months ago
I have never seen such vigorous fighting against integrity.

Me, either, and usually from folks who should know better but are willing to vote for someone they KNOW isn't worthy but "isn't as bad as____!"

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
6.2.8  Right Down the Center  replied to  Texan1211 @6.2.7    2 months ago

And the rationalization attempt a dozen or so times a day does not make it better.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
6.2.9  author  Texan1211  replied to  Right Down the Center @6.2.6    2 months ago

The poorest excuse to vote for someone is "He's not as bad as this guy" and shows to me a total lack of concern for the nation.

Hell, one of the clowns should adopt "Not as bad as him" as a campaign slogan, it's all some can seem to understand.

In what kind of fucked up world does that actually make sense?

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
6.2.10  Right Down the Center  replied to  Texan1211 @6.2.9    2 months ago
In what kind of fucked up world does that actually make sense?

In the world of keeping the status quo instead of helping to solve the problem.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
6.2.11  Sparty On  replied to  Texan1211 @6.2.9    2 months ago
The poorest excuse to vote for someone is "He's not as bad as this guy" and shows to me a total lack of concern for the nation.

Not in my opinion.    

A worst excuse is wasting your vote on someone who has essential zero chance of winning thus insuring that a more distasteful candidate wins.

I’ve done it twice and it feels worse than voting for a lesser evil.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
6.2.12  author  Texan1211  replied to  Sparty On @6.2.11    2 months ago

well, we can agree to disagree!

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
6.2.13  Sparty On  replied to  Texan1211 @6.2.12    2 months ago

Yes, respectfully, we can. 

 
 
 
Igknorantzruls
Freshman Silent
6.3  Igknorantzruls  replied to  George @6    2 months ago
Putin has said that Biden is better for russia, so a vote for Biden is a vote for Putin

And we all know, just like Trump, Putin would only LIE

while sitting up in bed, or not standing in or on yours or his head.

yea, an ex KBG mind fck would always mean and say , exactly how he wanted you to think that day...?

Can you possibly see not through....

what _Putin would have you think he didnt want you to do...?

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
6.3.1  George  replied to  Igknorantzruls @6.3    2 months ago

The hypocrisy  of that comment is stunning but not surprising, all we heard is that Putin endorsed trump while Hillary was running and that is why we needed to vote for Hillary, and now we can't believe him? 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
6.3.2  author  Texan1211  replied to  George @6.3.1    2 months ago

Very, very, VERY selective "reasoning" at play here. Only believe what you need to do to justify your vote.

 
 
 
Igknorantzruls
Freshman Silent
6.3.3  Igknorantzruls  replied to  George @6.3.1    2 months ago

well, everyone knows a KBG mindfuck would never change his direction when faking out gullibles' of our nation...

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
6.3.4  George  replied to  Igknorantzruls @6.3.3    2 months ago

So he is just assuming Biden voters are fucking morons, Can't really see an issue with that logic.

 
 
 
Igknorantzruls
Freshman Silent
6.3.5  Igknorantzruls  replied to  George @6.3.4    2 months ago
So he is just assuming Biden voters are fucking morons, Can't really see an issue with that logic

did you possibly catch the article recently on here, where Russian news commentators were calling out how intelligence challenged, in so many word, are Trump supporters of the Absurd abysmal failure known asz Trump, cause with good reason they were left laughing at those thinking like you, and no matter how i perceive this, i find it sad, cause our nation being so wronged, makes me mad

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
6.3.6  George  replied to  Igknorantzruls @6.3.5    2 months ago

So you disagree with that statement? Or do you agree with their assessment?

 
 
 
Igknorantzruls
Freshman Silent
6.3.7  Igknorantzruls  replied to  George @6.3.6    2 months ago

how is it you are required to ask how i feel, after just stating how i feel...?

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
6.3.8  George  replied to  Igknorantzruls @6.3.7    2 months ago

I just find the willingness to show such blatant hypocrisy in your comments strange. we need to believe russia if they say bad things about trump, but can't believe russia when they support Biden, you realize those are the same right? 

 
 
 
Igknorantzruls
Freshman Silent
6.3.9  Igknorantzruls  replied to  George @6.3.8    2 months ago
we need to believe russia if they say bad things about trump, but can't believe russia when they support Biden, you realize those are the same right? 

Do YOU realize it is YOU that does NOT realize...?

"we need to believe russia if they say bad things about Trump

but

can't believe russia when they supported Biden.

you realize those are the same right?"

.

bad things about Trump MEANS they want you to vote Biden , DOESN't it ???

when they support Biden, MEANS they want you to vote Biden   DOESN't it ???

.

can you NOT SEE, Biden totally condemning Russia on Ukraine and the death/MURDER

of Putin's PRIMARY POLITICAL RIVAL   

All while Trump has STOPPED our countries Military assistance to the Ukraine via that sniveling little House head who won't even allow the Senates bill to come to the floor !  ???

and Biden has condemned the MURDER of this Russian hero, and blamed the responsible party ,PUTIN, 

all while Trump didn't even mention it for daze, and then only one mention where he pathetically attempted to equate that of a HERO PATRIOT to his 

self brought on situations, where he raped a journalist, then smeared her, lost in court on defamation of character, and LOST to the tune of 5 Million, and then refused to shut up about it and continued his defamation of one he had been judged to have raped, and lost again. They figured the 5 million wssn't enough thus h wound up with 83 MILLION MORE....

then found guilty of breaking other laws with his company without admitting wrongdoing's and showing NO REMORSE, 

Trump is a POS, and Putin murdered a pariotic hero, and Trump DID NOT CONDEMN PUTIN AT ALL, NEVER HAS

So who do you think Putin would want in office ...?????? 

 
 
 
Igknorantzruls
Freshman Silent
6.3.10  Igknorantzruls  replied to  Igknorantzruls @6.3.9    2 months ago

and Texan and just Just Jim, post 6.3.9 is also for both of you to please explain, thanx in advance

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
6.3.11  author  Texan1211  replied to  Igknorantzruls @6.3.10    2 months ago

Why would I explain that to you when it is obvious I won't be voting for either loser?

Get someone to explain it to you that IS going to vote for a loser--although you have said you'd vote for Biden.

I don't give a shit who Putin wants and don't think he has any influence on the election.

The whole Russia, Russia, Russia thing is past its expiration date.

 
 
 
Igknorantzruls
Freshman Silent
6.3.12  Igknorantzruls  replied to  Texan1211 @6.3.11    2 months ago
I don't give a shit who Putin wants and don't think he has any influence on the election. The whole Russia, Russia, Russia thing is past its expiration date.

really?

serious question, are you really from Texas ?

What do you contest in my post ?

Are you a true blue American ?, cause if you ae, pleas do show me with all of your great logic why Trump NEVER has a negative word to say about PUTIN ????????????

 
 
 
Igknorantzruls
Freshman Silent
6.3.13  Igknorantzruls  replied to  Texan1211 @6.3.11    2 months ago

OK , so you CAN'T

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
6.3.14  JohnRussell  replied to  Igknorantzruls @6.3.12    2 months ago

People like this have had YEARS to formulate a coherent answer. There is none forthcoming. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
6.3.15  author  Texan1211  replied to  Igknorantzruls @6.3.12    2 months ago
really?

Yes, was it unclear?

serious question, are you really from Texas ?

My father was born and raised in Texas, I was born in Ft. Belvoir, VA when my dad was stationed there. I have lived in California, Nevada, Virginia, and Texas, with Texas being where I choose to live the majority of my life.

What do you contest in my post ?

I don't care about your post. I am over the whole Russia, Russia, Russia crap. WTF difference could it possibly make who Putin wants?

Since I have made it clear to anyone and everyone who has chosen to READ my comments, what makes you think I care WTF Trump has to say any more than I care what Biden has to say?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
6.3.16  author  Texan1211  replied to  Igknorantzruls @6.3.13    2 months ago
OK , so you CAN'T

can you?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
6.3.17  author  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @6.3.14    2 months ago
People like this have had YEARS to formulate a coherent answer. There is none forthcoming

People engaged in Russia, Russia, Russia conspiracies shouldn't talk about others.

 
 
 
George
Junior Expert
6.3.18  George  replied to  Igknorantzruls @6.3.9    2 months ago

So Russia is lying when they say trump voters are idiots right? you believe they are lying about that? Maybe Putin supports Biden because it is actually what is best for russia, 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
6.3.19  JohnRussell  replied to  Texan1211 @6.3.17    2 months ago

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Igknorantzruls
Freshman Silent
6.3.20  Igknorantzruls  replied to  Texan1211 @6.3.15    2 months ago
WTF difference could it possibly make who Putin wants?

What an ignorant statement. Carry on Tex, good luck persuading people to waste their votes.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
6.3.21  author  Texan1211  replied to  Igknorantzruls @6.3.20    2 months ago
What an ignorant statement

I find worrying about Russia to be a waste of time, while acknowledging that some may hang on Putin's every word and are worried he may influence some idiots in our elections.

If Biden loses, and you voted for him, is your vote considered wasted?

 
 
 
Igknorantzruls
Freshman Silent
6.3.22  Igknorantzruls  replied to  George @6.3.18    2 months ago
So Russia is lying when they say trump voters are idiots right? you believe they are lying about that? Maybe Putin supports Biden because it is actually what is best for russia, 

No, no, and no, don't chew know, cause i tried and failed, and to no avail, so availability must be available elsewhere, you guys Njoy, got shit to do,n bid u adieu.

 
 
 
Igknorantzruls
Freshman Silent
6.3.23  Igknorantzruls  replied to  Texan1211 @6.3.21    2 months ago
find worrying about Russia to be a waste of time, while acknowledging that some may hang on Putin's every word and are worried he may influence some idiots in our elections. If Biden loses, and you voted for him, is your vote considered wasted?

it is for you, so my congratulations with simultaneous condolences, for Putin has Donny wrapped around his middle finger, and he gives it to US and Donny daily, cause the only ones you need to worry about, are Trump, and any Republicans that follow his traitorous lead, and the only thing wasted, is my non precious time...ta ta 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
6.3.24  author  Texan1211  replied to  Igknorantzruls @6.3.23    2 months ago
it is for you, so my congratulations with simultaneous condolences, for Putin has Donny wrapped around his middle finger, and he gives it to US and Donny daily, cause the only ones you need to worry about, are Trump, and any Republicans that follow his traitorous lead, and the only thing wasted, is my non precious time...ta ta 

You keep preaching to the wrong choir.

Go sell it all to someone actually voting for Trump.

That clearly isn't me.

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
6.4  Ronin2  replied to  George @6    2 months ago

Did the two major parties get the message in 2016?

That was supposed to be the year of the third party with two of the most detested nominees ever running for the Establishment parties. 

They aren't going to get the message now either.

If a third party does manage to gain enough votes to cause one of the Establishment parties to lose the election- then like with the Tea Party the Establishment will do whatever it takes to bring that faction into the fold. Once in, it will be perverted from it's original message and disappear. 

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
6.4.1  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Ronin2 @6.4    2 months ago
Did the two major parties get the message in 2016?

They didn't.  The democrats doubled down on stupid launching unfounded investigation after investigation, even to this day, and it looks like the republicans are running Trump again.  

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
7  JohnRussell    2 months ago

Promoting a "third party" for 2024 is a scam. 3rd party voting will get Trump re-elected, which is what those promoting 3rd party voting in 2024 want. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.1  author  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @7    2 months ago

Your post perpetuates the cycle we have been stuck in without taking any responsibility for your vote.

if Biden was even HALF the stellar candidate you seem to think he is, a third party would be no threat to him.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
7.1.1  JohnRussell  replied to  Texan1211 @7.1    2 months ago

When it dawned on you that third party voting would most likely help Trump you suddenly got "religion". 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.1.2  author  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @7.1.1    2 months ago
When it dawned on you that third party voting would most likely help Trump you suddenly got "religion".

That post confirms my suspicions that you don't actually read my posts.

If a third party hurts any D or R candidate, tough shit for them. Guess they weren't all that and a bag of chips after all despite the constant cheerleading.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
7.1.3  JohnRussell  replied to  Texan1211 @7.1.2    2 months ago

Liz Cheney might get in as a third party candidate. Make sure you vote for her. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.1.4  author  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @7.1.3    2 months ago
Liz Cheney might get in as a third party candidate. Make sure you vote for her.

She might.

You be sure to vote for failure Biden.

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
7.1.5  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  JohnRussell @7.1.3    2 months ago

jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
7.2  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  JohnRussell @7    2 months ago
3rd party voting will get Trump re-elected,

The question i have is does one think all those 3rd party voters would vote for biden or even a simple majority of them , if left with just 2 choices ? thats if they decide to vote for the top slot of president at all? even using the TiG scale of one being an order of magnitude worse than the other ?

I have already decided im not voting for either Trump or Biden , and there is a very good likelihood i may leave that particular seat blank if both are still on the nov ballot , which remains to be determined as of yet .

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
7.2.1  JohnRussell  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @7.2    2 months ago

Third party candidates have always been from the left or from the middle. They are never from the right. I can't remember the last time there was a third party candidate that was from the right other than the totally ineffectual Libertarian Party. Which is always offset by the Green Party.

Ralph Nader. From the left. Ross Perot campaigned as a moderate problem solver. John Anderson was a moderate Republican. 

Ron De Santis offered himself as a far right alternative to Trump and he got crushed.

A moderate or liberal third party candidate would get Trump elected. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.2.2  author  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @7.2.1    2 months ago
A moderate or liberal third party candidate would get Trump elected.

Well, at least that acknowledges the fact that Biden is a spectacularly ineffective candidate undeserving of anyone's vote.

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
7.2.3  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  JohnRussell @7.2.1    2 months ago

well that answers what i asked , you think 3rd party voters would vote left if only given 2 choices .

i think they are likely to leave the seat unvoted for given the choices and the feelings they exhibit .

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
7.2.4  JohnRussell  replied to  Texan1211 @7.2.2    2 months ago

Some Biden voters might vote for a "moderate" candidate. Virtually no Trump voters will. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.2.5  author  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @7.2.4    2 months ago
Some Biden voters might vote for a "moderate" candidate. Virtually no Trump voters will. 

Well, at least that acknowledges the fact that Biden is a spectacularly ineffective candidate undeserving of anyone's vote.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Senior Guide
7.3  Right Down the Center  replied to  JohnRussell @7    2 months ago
3rd party voting will get Trump re-elected, which is what those promoting 3rd party voting in 2024 want. 

If that is what they want why wouldn't they just vote for Trump?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7.3.1  author  Texan1211  replied to  Right Down the Center @7.3    2 months ago
If that is what they want why wouldn't they just vote for Trump?

Because it's just too obvious and sensible??

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
8  Jeremy Retired in NC    2 months ago

In 2016, the votes showed that the people are tired of the career politicians running the country.

In 2020 the votes showed that people voted their feelings. 

In 2024 we could be looking at the same candidates from 2020.  We've seen both in the position and neither are good for the country. 

Choosing the lesser of two evils is no longer an option.  We're being fed garbage instead of demanding better.

Eliminating the career politicians from the ballot would be a good start.  The only way that will happen is if WE start dictating it instead of the parties.  

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
8.1  Ronin2  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @8    2 months ago

I agree with you whole heartedly. 

In a perfect world the two Establishment parties would disappear forever; and we would be left with several political parties that would have to form coalitions to rule. 

But in this world we are stuck with two options.

If you don't want Brandon you have to vote for Trump.

If you don't want Trump you have to vote for Brandon.

One or the other will be president, No matter how much everyone hates both.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
8.1.1  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Ronin2 @8.1    2 months ago

Sadly you are right.  At some point we need to step up and say enough is enough.  

 
 
 
Igknorantzruls
Freshman Silent
8.1.2  Igknorantzruls  replied to  Ronin2 @8.1    2 months ago
One or the other will be president, No matter how much everyone hates both

on this we are in agreement....again, for i agree with 6.4 as well, does this mean i'm going to Hell...

cause already there, so no stopping to stare

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
8.1.3  Ronin2  replied to  Igknorantzruls @8.1.2    2 months ago

Is this really still a "free country" if all of our politicians who hold power only come from two parties?

 
 
 
Igknorantzruls
Freshman Silent
8.1.4  Igknorantzruls  replied to  Ronin2 @8.1.3    2 months ago

i'd say no, we are being controlled by a media manipulated lobbyist bought and brought forward group of pols whom must answer to the big monies donated that determine far too much about the direction our purposely divided country does gravitate, something all US citizens should hate.  

 
 
 
Dig
Professor Participates
9  Dig    2 months ago
Some folks plan on voting for Trump, some plan on voting for Biden.

Please wake up and realize you are voting for continued failure.

No amount of justification can change the fact you are planning to vote for someone who isn't good for the country.

What continued failure? Economically speaking, we've recovered from the pandemic far better than our peers. Unemployment is about as low as it's ever been, the stock market set all-time records recently, inflation has leveled off, and oil production is through the roof. That's supposed to be failure?

Wake up, folks, don't perpetuate the same cycle and then complain about partisanship. That is an intellectually lazy argument and doesn't make sense for America.

The intellectually lazy argument is that Biden and Trump are the same.

A vote for Trump or Biden is irrational, insane, and unpatriotic.

Only half true. If the choice does end up being Biden or Trump again (don't ignore that qualifier), then Biden would be a perfectly rational, sane, and patriotic choice. But not "grab 'em by the pussy" Trump, who is...

  • A known national security threat (classified documents fiasco, hostile towards allies and friendly towards adversaries)
  • A wannabe authoritarian dictator who already violated the oath of office and tried to undermine the republic after losing the last election (read: tyrant)
  • A life-long con man and fraud, with vile, if not downright evil psychological traits who places himself above literally everything else.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
9.1  author  Texan1211  replied to  Dig @9    2 months ago
What continued failure? Economically speaking, we've recovered from the pandemic far better than our peers. Unemployment is about as low as it's ever been, the stock market set all-time records recently, inflation has leveled off, and oil production is through the roof. That's supposed to be failure?

Inflation is still higher than when Biden took office. The economy is so great that we managed to run a trillion+ dollar deficit last year--the highest ever in a non-pandemic year.

We are facing an invasion on our southern border and paying to support migrants when Americans are doing without.

We are heavily involved in two proxy wars at great expense--money we will end up borrowing and paying interest on.

The intellectually lazy argument is that Biden and Trump are the same.

Strawman, I never claimed they were the same, I stated clearly that neither are deserving of a second term.

Only half true. If the choice does end up being Biden or Trump again (don't ignore that qualifier), then Biden would be a perfectly rational, sane, and patriotic choice. But not "grab 'em by the pussy" Trump, who is...

Biden nor Trump will never be a sane, rational or patriotic choice.

Unless one suspends reality.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
9.1.1  TᵢG  replied to  Texan1211 @9.1    2 months ago
I stated clearly that neither are deserving of a second term.

Remarkably, the criticism from you is always on Biden.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
9.1.2  author  Texan1211  replied to  TᵢG @9.1.1    2 months ago
Remarkably, the criticism from you is always on Biden

Well, remarkably, he IS the President.

And I figured one could get my gist if they have bothered to read my posts where MANY times I have stated NEITHER is fit for office.

What does any of that have to do with voting for a couple of losers anyway?

Of course, it could be because of what was written in the post I responded TO!

 
 
 
Dig
Professor Participates
9.1.3  Dig  replied to  Texan1211 @9.1    2 months ago
Inflation is still higher than when Biden took office.

Not Biden's fault. And again, the recovery has been strong thus far and on the right track.

The economy is so great that we managed to run a trillion+ dollar deficit last year--the highest ever in a non-pandemic year.

Good thing Trump passed that huge tax cut when the economy was already booming, huh?

We are facing an invasion on our southern border

No we aren't. There is a migrant crisis, but "invasion" is disingenuous hyperbole.

Good thing Trump put his thumb on the scale and turned the House off to that recent border bill that several Democrats were pissed about, and that Lankford characterized as the best anyone was ever going to get, huh? Biden even said he would sign it into law. What a missed opportunity.

Hell, even if a person wanted more than what was in the bill, it would have certainly been an improvement, and could have always been tweaked the next time Rs held a legislative trifecta. But no, the Trump caucus doesn't actually want border security, they just want the issue to run on. 

We are heavily involved in two proxy wars at great expense

As we should be, considering the reasons for the two conflicts. Especially in Ukraine, and the Trumpster Rs in the House need to pull their heads out of their asses about that one. What they're doing is dishonorable and only hurts our credibility and reputation, not to mention the situation on the ground for some of the best and most deserving freedom fighters in the world at present.

Biden nor Trump will never be a sane, rational or patriotic choice.

Regarding Biden, that just isn't true. It's totally fine if you don't like him and would prefer someone else, (I actually would, too) but you're being totally over the top there. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
9.1.4  author  Texan1211  replied to  Dig @9.1.3    2 months ago
Regarding Biden, that just isn't true. It's totally fine if you don't like him and would prefer someone else, (I actually would, too) but you're being totally over the top there. 

Seems awful strange that 90% of your post was touting Biden, only to say you would prefer someone else, too.

You want to keep arguing about Trump to me, but my position is neither is fit for office.

 
 
 
Dig
Professor Participates
9.1.5  Dig  replied to  Texan1211 @9.1.4    2 months ago
Seems awful strange that 90% of your post was touting Biden, only to say you would prefer someone else, too.

I can recognize that his administration hasn't been the disaster that some want to believe and still prefer someone younger.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
9.1.6  author  Texan1211  replied to  Dig @9.1.5    2 months ago
I can recognize that his administration hasn't been the disaster that some want to believe and still prefer someone younger.

Fair enough.

I can recognize that both Biden and Trump aren't fit for office.

 
 
 
Robert in Ohio
Professor Guide
10  Robert in Ohio    2 months ago

Economy, inflation, debt

Trump

  • Inflation
  • 2017: 2.1 %
  • 2018: 2.4%
  • 2019: 1.8%
  • 2020: 1.2 %

 

Biden

  • Inflation
  • 2021: 4.7%
  • 2022: 8.0%
  • 2023: 4.1 %
  • S&P 500:  +29.7% from Biden’s inauguration through Jan. 29, 2024 (first three years in office)
  • Real GDP Growth:  +5.9% ( 2021 ), +1.9% ( 2022 ), +2.5% ( 2023 )
  • Jobs:  Employers have created an average of 409,000 positions per month during Biden’s first three years, which has been aided by a massive post-pandemic return to work.
  • Debt:  A preliminary analysis estimates Biden has added $4.8 trillion to the debt so far, according to the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget. That total doesn’t include the  Fiscal Responsibility Act  or the full impact of Biden’s various student debt relief plans.
  • Signed a $1 trillion  bipartisan infrastructure deal  aimed at repairing roads and bridges, expanding public transit systems and modernizing the electrical grid, among other changes.
 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
11  author  Texan1211    one month ago

Looks like all the partisans got what they wanted.

I sure hope all of you are proud of your votes for failures!