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Preacher Kenneth Copeland Defends Lavish Lifestyle

Preacher Kenneth Copeland Defends Lavish Lifestyle


By: JohnRussell  •  15 comments  •  8 hours ago
Looking at this guy in closeups in high definition was kind of scary.  It's also scary that some of our rural folk look up to these 'preachers'. 
Jun 26 11:20pm @5.1.1 I expected him to be slick, not stupid.
Jun 26 9:05pm @5 It surprises me that someone who appears to be this stupid has managed to bamboozle so many millions of 'faithful followers'.
Slavery in the Bible is Disingenuous

Slavery in the Bible is Disingenuous


Via: TᵢG  •  128 comments  •  16 hours ago
Matt was very triggered in this video.   Not the presentation I would prefer, but he made points that I have made using examples I have used and got the kind of response I have witnessed.   In spite of Matt's often emotional presentation, this video has a lot to offer. Matt Dillahunty's bio , by the way: I was raised in a loving, Southern Baptist home and was a fundamentalist...
Jun 26 3:52pm @4.2.71 ... still believing errant stories written by ancient men based on even older oral tradition are the divine word of the grandest possible entity.
Jun 26 12:30pm @4.2.69 "..." I agree. As pithy as I can be:  feelings are an unreliable source for truth.
Jun 26 9:30am @4.2.67 My position is not really one based on feelings (emotions, etc.) but rather just an assessment of what I observe.    What I observe are billions of people in 2019 still actually believing that holy...
Jun 25 10:24pm @4.2.64 Does not change the fact that the Bible reflects the mores and values of ancient men and believers are reading it raw daily. The book is obsolete; you tacitly seem to acknowledge this fact.
Jun 25 10:20pm @6.2.2 There are plenty of them.   The old Earth Creationists, for example, consider the Bible divine and engage in spectacular contortions to find a way to interpret it so that it does not contradict...
Jun 25 1:08pm @7.1 "..." A hint that maybe we should all move on from the Bible(s), Qur'an, etc. and try to understand 'God' (if there is one) merely by studying what exists (and what that means) and not presume...
Jun 25 1:04pm @4.2.57 "..." Which leaves the Bible naked for all to see as an outdated ancient book from which God has ostensibly moved on.   If God is directing the evolution of our mores & values —and clearly is...
Jun 25 9:13am @4.2.54 One could almost conclude anything when speculating.   If there is a Heaven I do not see how we can conclude anything about it.   It could be eternal slavery (catering to an all powerful entity in...
Jun 25 9:09am @4.2.53 That is a misunderstanding of what I wrote.    Of course if I had lived back then my morality would have been acceptance of slavery as the norm.    But my point was that today (2019) we have an...
Jun 24 10:23pm @4.2.49 "..." I use that adjective to describe evolved morality.   For example, most modern societies have evolved a morality wherein the owning of a human being as property is considered immoral....
Jun 24 8:46pm @4.2.46 Well I am not really questioning the morality of the God character in the Bible.   I am illustrating one of the reasons why I see this merely as a character in an ancient book.   The God character...
Jun 24 4:42pm @4.2.44 "..." Then that would mean that you find the owning of another person as property where ownership involves (but is not limited to): ability to buy or capture a human being as property ability...
Jun 24 11:50am @4.2.38 Spot on.   I could understand an isolated or fringe using such an approach but this appears to be more common than I would have expected.
Jun 24 9:08am @4.2.36 "..." Amazing and disappointing.     My position is that it does not depend on anything.   Owning another human being as property is immoral.   Full stop.
Jun 24 9:05am @2.1.16 "..." Give up on what?   You answered my questions and I pretty much see that your position involves rationalizing the Bible; in particular, the owning of a human being as property.   Having...
Jun 24 12:07am @6.2 "..." Many look to the Bible as their source for moral guidance.   The Bible condones owning human beings as property. Apparently God wants modern readers of His word to hold that owning human...
Jun 23 11:42pm @2.1.13 "..." Actually, your prior answers paint a clear enough picture and, accordingly, I have nothing else to ask you.
Jun 23 11:41pm @2.1.12 "..." Well I am certainly troubled that the Bible condones the owning of another human being as property and is taken by far too many to be divine. "..." And thus, the Bible stands today...
Jun 23 11:29pm @4.2.28 "..." I wrote @4.2.24:  "owning another human being as property".   The context is the ownership of human beings in the Bible. The 'as property' was intentional;  that qualification and the...
Jun 23 11:05pm @4.2.24 "..." Woah.   Is owning another human being as property moral?   
Jun 23 11:01pm @4.2.22 "..." In actual practice, morality is a function of society.   Each society evolves a collective morality and commits much of it into the laws for civil society.   Outside of laws, the evolved...
Jun 23 10:54pm @2.1.9 The key distinction I am drawing is what ordinary ancient men thought (we agree they held slavery as normal and moral) and what God considers moral (objective morality).  If one views the Bible as...
Jun 23 10:22pm @2.1.7 "..." That question was: "..." Your answer is that it was moral (per the mores and values of the time).   I agree that the people almost certainly thought it was moral.   It was the basis of...
Jun 23 9:57pm @4.2.16 "..." What we see is God affirming that a human being may own another as property.
Jun 23 9:55pm @4.2.15 "..." That reads as though you are suggesting that morality only matters if there is an entity that will hold you accountable.     If so, I vehemently disagree.   Atheists are quite capable of...
Jun 23 9:44pm @4.1.2 "..." The guy on the phone (Ryan) was making a very typical defense in most cases.    For example, the equivocation on Exodus 21:20 ☞ "..." Ryan could not bring himself to...
Jun 23 6:58pm @4.2.7 "..." Yeah ... well ... He does not seem to be too concerned.
Jun 23 6:43pm @4.2.5 Besides, faith does not answer questions.   Faith is what enables people to actually take as truth that which is written in the Bible (or that which authorities tell them is true).   It is the...
Jun 23 6:11pm @4.2.3 The Bible (especially the OT) is likely one of the main factors as to why there is such disagreement.    Many Christians, seems to me, cherry-pick, equivocate and even insert wholly inconsistent...
Jun 23 5:50pm @4.1 Yeah that is the part I am asking everyone to ignore.   Getting angry is counterproductive. What is important is the arguments from both sides of the question.   It is the content, not the...
Jun 23 1:55pm @2.1.4 So how does one accept the moral guidance provided by the Bible as divine objective morality?   Answer:  cherry-picking, equivocation and extreme twists of interpretation.   So if one must go...
Jun 23 1:34pm @2.1.2 And then we have those who actually argue that it was moral back then to own a human being as property.    They realize (to their credit) that the God of the Bible actually did (per the words)...
Jun 23 12:47pm @2.1 The caller also used arguments that have been used on social forums (including right here on NT).   Note the immediate jump to the ridiculous:  'but slavery in the Bible is not like slavery in US...
Jun 23 12:40pm @3.3 Imagine this:  pretend you live in a world where most everyone holds that the Earth is flat.   There is profound evidence to the contrary and no real evidence that actually supports a flat Earth....
Jun 23 11:23am @1 We know we exist and we hold that it is possible that we were created by a sentient entity. Outside of that, religions appear to be based on pure speculation, whole-cloth invention and reasoning...
Please Tax Us More, 19 U.S. Billionaires Plead In Letter To Presidential Candidates

Please Tax Us More, 19 U.S. Billionaires Plead In Letter To Presidential Candidates


Via: Tessylo  •  122 comments  •  14 hours ago
Politics Please Tax Us More, 19 U.S. Billionaires Plead In Letter To Presidential Candidates   Mary Papenfuss, HuffPost   8 hours ago   Nineteen U.S. billionaires are calling for a new  wealth tax   on their holdings to battle income inequality in the nation and boost public revenue to make America a better place. “America has a moral, ethical and...
Jun 26 1:56pm @12.2.1 "..." True.   Of course the core reason is to look into why reducing the wealth gap (in moderation) is healthy for society. "..." Agreed. "..." One would expect this to be true. How does...
Jun 26 12:37pm @12 "..." And it could be wasted.    If there was a way to actually ensure these funds would be put to good use and not wasted due to corruption and incompetence,  I can see value here.   I just do...
Ex-Atheist Dr. Sarah Salviander Destroys Atheism with One Tweet

Ex-Atheist Dr. Sarah Salviander Destroys Atheism with One Tweet


Via: XXJefferson#51  •  392 comments  •  14 hours ago
If you're unfamiliar with Dr. Sarah Salviander , I encourage you to make her acquaintance. She's a Christian apologist, takes the Genesis creation account literally (although she's not a young earth creationist, she believes that God created the cosmos in six days), has a Ph.D. in astrophysics, and is an ex-atheist. Because of her background and credentials, Salviander has insight into...
Jun 26 9:50am @1.1.94 "..." Where?   Give me a quote.   I just re-read your posts and I see no place where you demonstrate how free will is possible with a knowable future. You have declared that this is simply my...
Jun 26 12:27am @1.1.92 "..." Sure I do. "..." This not difficult to understand.   If the future is knowable that means what will happen in the future is knowable before it happens.  This does not require that it be...
Jun 24 11:34am @1.1.89 "..." When you start a sentence with "And yet ..." that indicates a rebuttal.   Your 'rebuttal' was to paraphrase the point in the quote (from me) that you delivered as the context quote.  You...
Jun 24 9:25am @1.1.87 "..." You just quoted me making that very point: "..." You did not even read what you quoted??    "..." That does not answer how you know that God is the first cause.   And that is what I...
Jun 23 11:54pm @1.1.85 "..." The same Bible also illustrates an omniscient God who is surprised when His creatures behave in manners that go against his will.   Omniscience and 'surprise' or even 'disappointment' do...
Jun 23 3:22pm @3.1.24 Little doubt that it is the latter.
Jun 23 2:27pm @1.1.81 "..." I reject your posit given your post shows that you mean: 'sentience only begets sentience'. "..." There is no evidence that suggests the grandest, most complex possible entity simply...
Jun 23 1:40pm @9.5.11 "..." Yes.   I am referring to the word 'god' being defined before one can make any sense of it. "..." You cannot state that 'god' is not unfalsifiable by definition because that depends on...
Jun 23 1:06pm @3.1.21 Do more than simply declare; back up your words.  Make an argument.    Explain the belief system of an individual who is not convinced a god exists but is willing to consider evidence.  
Jun 23 1:04pm @9.5.9 "..." Define god and establish criteria for validating said god.   If evidence is uncovered that satisfies the criteria then you have your god.   It is knowable depending upon how you define...
Jun 23 12:36pm @1.1.79 "..." Because of the presupposition that I just described. "..." Not a sentient first cause.   We know existence IS (direct evidence).   We can logically infer that it has always BEEN...
Jun 23 12:28pm @9.5.7 "..." Close.  The agnostic atheist simply accepts the fact that s/he does not know everything.   Thus, the agnostic atheist accepts the possibility that a god might indeed exist.   Whether or not...
Jun 23 11:56am @8.1.14 The difference is this: atheist:  Lacks belief in a god. agnostic atheist:   I am not convinced a god exist.   Willing to evaluate forthcoming evidence. gnostic atheist:  No god exists; no way I...
Jun 23 9:10am @1.1.77 "..." That is actually funny.   Presupposing the grandest possible sentience with infinite powers who created everything and is the answer to all unanswered questions might be the best example of...
Jun 22 10:26pm @1.1.76 "..." We do; the human authors of the Bible, for example, are treated with proper skepticism.  Until evidenced as divine, the Bible is -by default- merely a book written by (many) ancient men....
Jun 22 7:28pm @8.1.11 "..." Atheists who claim with certainty that no god exists are the gnostics — this is a fringe minority.   The assertion of the gnostic atheist is unsupportable and irrational.   It is not...
Jun 22 10:32am @1.1.69 "..." How can God know what you will do before you do it and you still have the ability to do something else (making God's knowledge incorrect)?    You are merely declaring without a supporting...
Jun 22 10:14am @1.1.67 "..." By definition or do you have supporting evidence for this?   'God' might be existence itself.    "..." Again, are you providing a claim by definition or do you know this somehow?   If...
Jun 22 10:12am @1.1.66 "..." Given the context in which I have used the phrase ‘future is knowable’ you must realize that I am talking about knowing everything about the future.   Claiming that our ability to predict...
Jun 22 10:01am @1.1.64 "..." My intent at making the argument without God is to avoid unnecessary complication.   There is no need to have any entity that actually knows the future for free will to be impossible....
Jun 22 12:06am @1.1.62 I made no claim of what a ‘god’ might know.   In fact I have been making a point that does not require even the mention of a god. ‘Is the future knowable?’ is the operative question.    See...
Jun 21 10:33pm @3.1.16 "..." You insert as an answer to the order and origin of the universe the act of a sentient supernatural entity which is infinitely more complex and entirely unevidenced.   Not only do you label...
Jun 21 9:25pm @3.1.14 I can understand how an irreligious person (who technically would be an atheist) could 'find Jesus'.   But for someone to seriously consider the question of a creator of the known universe, realize...
Jun 21 9:21pm @3.1.12 "..." You are unaware that the Mesopotamia civilization is older than 10,000 years?   Or do you dismiss that as pseudo-science along with biochemical evolution?
Jun 21 8:09pm @1.1.58 "..." Yes, it does indeed appear as though you have free will.   It seems to me that I have free will too. However, if it is possible for some entity to know (as in 100% certainty; truth) that...
Jun 21 5:28pm @1.1.54 This is a new one for me. 
Jun 21 5:09pm @1.1.52 "..." No fair using logic.
Jun 21 5:06pm @1.1.50 I think that including God into this discussion confuses people because free will is supposedly granted by God so no logic will ever get past the faith barrier. In this topic there really is no...
Jun 21 5:00pm @1.1.48 "..." It does not matter if God knows the future or not.   What matters is if the future is knowable.   If God exists and is omniscient that would mean that the future is knowable.   Further, it...
Jun 21 2:50pm @1.1.42 "..." Yes.   Hopefully you read the rest of the comment too.   Do you understand that I am talking about free will being dependent upon a non-knowable future? "..." That does not mean...
Jun 21 1:30pm @1.1.35 "..." Given you continue to argue the strawman of knowledge determines action there is no point in my responding to you.   Apparently I cannot make it sufficiently clear that I have never claimed...
Jun 21 12:25pm @1.1.31 "..." Then you are changing the scenario.   It is as though we were playing a game of chess and you state that you disagree with the rule that pawns cannot move backwards.   If you are going to...
Jun 21 12:14pm @1.1.30 This, seems to me, is incredibly obvious yet no matter how many times it is explained (in various ways) some will find a way to distort the scenario.   Stated facts are ignored, unstated facts are...
Jun 21 11:33am @1.1.27 "..." Correct.   I never suggested or implied that knowledge effects actions or that knowledge is action.    Rather I spend my time correcting presumptions like this.    Note:   Knowledge (true...
Jun 21 10:07am @9.5.4 Defending the indefensible necessarily requires going outside the bounds of direct, honest discourse.   Politics and religion have that in common.
Jun 21 9:29am @3.3.97 "..." And thus you got it wrong when it comes to me.   As I noted.
Jun 21 9:27am @3.3.96 An obvious card hand metaphor taken literally to engage in more deflection.    "..." That is demonstrably false given I routinely engage on this topic with the serious, impersonal and...
Jun 21 9:03am @9.5.2 As I have oft noted, religions have evolved into masters of ensnaring minds.    They have several masterstrokes other than 'the slightest doubt is a sin / weakness / temptation by Satan'.   The...
Jun 21 12:17am @3.3.84 For one, it would be somewhat topical.  But primarily your bluff is being called.   My guess is that you do not even hold a pair in that hand.   Show your cards.
Jun 21 12:12am @3.3.83 Agreed.   But given nobody in recorded history has formally evidenced a sentient creator (resorting instead to faulty logical arguments) I expect a very weak answer if one is even provided.
Jun 20 11:55pm @3.3.79 Do you by any remote chance have any value to add to content of the discussion?   Or are you going to keep pushing the envelope to see how many times you can get away with personal derogatory...
Jun 20 11:14pm @3.3.77 "..." Psychoanalyzing another member is going personal (e.g. "That sounds more like your own insecurity talking.") Much better to make a rebuttal on content rather than use ugly tactics such as...
Jun 20 10:58pm @3.3.76 Well you clearly got it wrong with me.   I cannot speak for anyone else, but your method of analysis completely failed on this data point.
Jun 20 10:50pm @9.5 "..." The default IS we do not know.   That really is the point of the agnostic atheist. An agnostic atheist (what most every atheist is) is not convinced that there is a god. The agnostic...
Jun 20 10:41pm @1.1.23 ( This is not how IMPASSE is done.  Typing IMPASSE does not create an IMPASSE.  See COC Impasse section. ) You can practice on this post.   Just go to my avatar and click IMPASSE.
Jun 20 10:36pm @1.1.22 This topic is most interesting to me because every theist I have ever encountered does the same thing:  flat out ignore cause and effect. God is not required to understand this. SITUATION ONE:...
Jun 20 10:18pm @1.1.21 "..." Every time we discuss this you ignore the fact that my choice was known before I made it.    How is that possible John?    This is a major disconnect in logic. If I have free will this is...
Jun 20 6:59pm @3.3.66 "..." Why do you conclude that? There is a massive difference between giving no evidence other than personal claims and empirical evidence of a power that ostensibly created the known universe....
Jun 20 6:55pm @3.3.64 "..." Then what is the point of posting? "..." Yet again no thoughtful commentary, no argument, no rebuttal, nothing but derogatory personal comments.    
Jun 20 5:32pm @3.3.47 Make an actual argument then.   You are not going to convince anyone of anything by simply complaining about closed minds.   Deeming others to be flawed is no substitute for an argument.
Jun 20 5:28pm @3.3.46 Going personal is not an argument.   And presuming is usually foolish (as is true in this case). It is remarkable (not in a good way) that you do not realize that skeptics in general mean 'formal...
Jun 20 3:08pm @3.3.19 In my opinion Tacos indeed wants to dilute the meaning of the word ‘evidence’ so that personal claims serve as evidence of God.
Jun 20 2:12pm @3.3.17 "..." I stated that (and more) in my post.   Why instruct me on what I just stated?:    ↴ "..." Seems like clear language to me. "..." If someone makes an...
Jun 20 12:00pm @1.1.9 "..." What is knowable is the key factor (not what God knows).   Even if no entity is omniscient, if the future is knowable, free will is impossible.   If there is free will then the future...
Jun 20 9:57am @3.1.3 Interesting rebuttal:  'Sarah is a theist but she claims to have been an atheist'.    I found a presentation by Sarah where she engages in an elaborate contortion to try to reconcile Genesis with...
Jun 20 9:30am @1.1.5 "..." If I am missing something then explain it rather than simply make a claim.   Explain how a future can be knowable and free will actually exist. If it is possible to know that tomorrow at...
Jun 20 9:22am @1.1.3 "..." There might not be.   It depends on how God is defined.   If God is defined as omniscient then free will is impossible because omniscience cannot happen unless the future is knowable (and...
Jun 20 9:13am @3.3.7 Typically the word 'evidence' is diluted in meaning to be 'anything that I personally find to suggest the existence of God'.    If one uses that as their meaning for 'evidence' then the existence...
Jun 20 9:09am @3.3.6 "..." What definition of faith should atheists use?
Jun 20 9:07am @3.1.1 Her steps are contrived.   This is the kind of cynical twisting that a non-atheist would devise to spin atheism into a belief system.   "..." Everyone is born as a clean slate ready to learn...
Jun 20 12:00am @3 "..." Yet another individual trying to redefine atheism (lack of belief due to insufficient convincing evidence). Start with no assumptions Observe a claim that a particular god exists...
Sanders distances himself from 2011 editorial on his Senate website praising the American dream in Venezuela

Sanders distances himself from 2011 editorial on his Senate website praising the American dream in Venezuela


Via: Sparty On  •  41 comments  •  12 hours ago
As the political situation in Venezuela deteriorates, an editorial endorsed by presidential hopeful Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., that praised the socialist country as a place where the "American dream is more apt to be realized" in 2011. The piece from the Valley News editorial board , which discussed the U.S. jobs and wealth gap, was posted under the "must read" section on Sanders'...
Jun 26 12:33am @9.3.3 Explain why.   Back up your allegation with specifics.   It takes no insight to merely declare that someone routinely asks the wrong question.   
Jun 26 12:30am @2.3.1 "..." Are you able to make a comment that is not vague?   Come on 'Chris' make a specific comment.   Name the 'two' and show me where I argue that there is no 'connection' (and tell me what you...
Jun 25 10:14pm @2.2.6 Enjoy your fantasy ‘Chris’.
Jun 25 8:33pm @2.2.4 Given you think I am defending ‘socialism’ rather than pointing out the myriad misuse and confusion in the term, I will repeat my advice. Buy a vowel, you clearly are not paying attention to what...
Jun 25 4:43pm @2.2.1 Buy a vowel.    Or at least pay attention. "..." Because the word 'socialism' is demonstrably misunderstood as evidenced by the many conflicting meanings of the term and the fundamental lack of...
Jun 25 4:40pm @2.1.1 "..." Certainly.   I cannot imagine any entrepreneur (or even anyone on an executive team) who would find the concepts of Democratic Socialism to be appealing.   Given our existing...
Jun 24 10:00am @2 Thing is, the Democratic Socialists are likely disgusted that Sanders is out redefining that category of socialism as his policies.   Even the DSA organization (which ostensibly is DS but in...
The future of A.I. is in the hands of nine companies. It’s time to take it back.

The future of A.I. is in the hands of nine companies. It’s time to take it back.


Via: Perrie Halpern R.A.  •  7 comments  •  2 days ago
Jun 24 9:47am @3 This has been my concern for a while.   Because of the corporatocracy in the USA (in particular) when innovative companies make breakthroughs the cash abundant major corporations such as Amazon,...
Why Christians must support religious freedom for everyone

Why Christians must support religious freedom for everyone


Via: XXJefferson#51  •  38 comments  •  2 days ago
(RNS) — The fundamental human right of religious freedom is under attack around the globe today like never before. While this disturbing trend should concern everyone, it should be particularly alarming for Christians, because a Christian worldview requires us to care about religious freedom — including the religious freedom of others. Christians believe that God is sovereign over the...
Jun 23 6:51pm @1.1.7 "..." The day you find the ability to change your sexual orientation is the day you have actual data to offer.   Until then how could you possibly declare with such certainty that a person's...
Jun 23 12:58pm @2.1.4 "..." You avoided the question.    Try this:  is it possible to allow all religions to freely act on their religious views even if those views (e.g. honor killings) go against the laws of civil...
Jun 23 11:31am @2.1.2 "..." Other religious people disagree with you.   Different cultures, different religious beliefs.    It is not possible to please all religions.   So clearly society will necessarily intrude on...
Jun 23 9:33am @2.1 For example, those sects which believe in honor killings, female genital mutilation, death for apostates, death for homosexuals, ... , death for infidels.
Supreme Court rejects atheists' attempt to scrub 'In God We Trust' off US currency

Supreme Court rejects atheists' attempt to scrub 'In God We Trust' off US currency


Via: XXJefferson#51  •  375 comments  •  3 days ago
Video Show me the motto. The Supreme Court rejected an atheist case Monday to remove "In God We Trust," the national motto, from all coins and currency from the Department of Treasury. Michael Newdow, the same activist attorney who tried to remove "under God" from the Pledge of Allegiance, lost his case, arguing Congress' mandate to inscribe "In God We...
Jun 23 12:00am @6.1.19 "..." It was written by a man, not by a god.   Men are fallible.  That includes the possibility that the god in which they believe (or the deity they believe exists) does not actually exist.
Jun 22 6:55pm @18.1.3 "..." Amazing.   I thought buying the YEC evolution-is-pseudo-science nonsense was ridiculous enough.   But you also think progressives in the USA wish the USSR was around and dominant?   Almost...
Jun 19 11:14am @15.1.67 Many modern day individuals claim to have been abducted by aliens.   There are millions who insist the world is flat.   Some claim Elvis sightings.  And, closer to home, there are millions who...
Jun 17 8:36pm @15.1.62 This would be a good seed.   
Jun 17 8:32pm @15.1.61 "..." Because ... ?
Jun 17 4:29pm @15.1.56 All sideshow, no debate.   
Jun 17 3:46pm @15.1.54 Always the same pattern when someone cannot formulate a calm, logical rebuttal.   Deflection, unsupported  declarations, going personal, etc. I suspect most readers see through those tactics....
Jun 17 2:00pm @15.1.51 Claiming a true rebuttal is not the same as actually delivering one.  Stumped, eh? Further, epistte has recently made it clear that she was talking about Jesus as God (the normal, most common...
Jun 17 1:13pm @4.1.32 "..." I always find this funny.   Instead of engaging in a debate, some try to 'level the playing field' by bringing atheism down to the level of religious faith.   By calling atheism a...
Jun 17 1:11am @15.1.45 By pretending that I am spinning you are actually the one doing the spinning Tacos!. You gave me the link to her claim.   I read it and the context quote. Show me specifically where I am...
Jun 17 1:01am @15.1.43 "..." Given, as you note, no qualifiers how do we know that she was referring to Jesus the person rather than the Son of God? One hint is that she is talking about adult belief in Jesus....
Jun 16 10:42pm @15.1.33 I agree that the claim of Jesus (the Son hypostasis described in the Bible) has no supporting evidence.   It is, currently, merely a claim made by the Bible.
Jun 16 10:33pm @15.1.31 "..." I could not find where she made the claim, but it makes a big difference if by 'Jesus' epistte meant: 1. A charismatic human being (or beings) who was put to death for his public...
Jun 16 8:40pm @15.1.27 The existence of a real human being who was crucified because of his public statements around ~30AD and was the basis for what eventually became Christianity is certainly plausible.   I doubt that...
Jun 16 3:36pm @15.2.30 I was done responding until you made your comment.   
Jun 16 12:53am @15.2.21 Those have nothing to do with the question I asked you. Why dodge such an easy question?
Jun 15 11:49pm @15.2.18 "..." I agree.  It is quite reasonable to challenge an extraordinary claim.
Jun 15 11:48pm @15.2.17 Did you have trouble reading my post?   There was no 'prove it' stated or implied. In fact, I just asked you a generalized version of the question you had just answered. Why dodge such an easy...
Jun 15 11:39pm @15.2.14 "..." What I find curious is if someone has nothing, really, to offer better than an exasperated:  'I just believe' does that ever (maybe later on) give them pause?   Would they not ask...
Jun 15 11:37pm @15.2.13 I agree.   When someone makes an extraordinary claim in general, is it unreasonable to ask the person to back up the claim with evidence?
Jun 15 10:28pm @15.2.10 "..." Okay, let's have a debate on the claim of a flat Earth, the claim of an Earth < 10,000 years, the claim of alien abductions or the claim of Allah granting 70 virgins to martyrs in...
Jun 14 1:42pm @6.5.22 I have made no comment about which God is referenced on our currency.   My comment explained deist ‘god’ vs. theist ‘god’ in response to  your complaint that epistte did not do so. Do not presume,...
Jun 14 12:46am @6.5.20 Deists believe that there is a creator who appears to be entirely hands-off.   Deists make no pretense to know anything about said creator. The God of Abraham, in contrast, is claimed to be known...
What Truck Drivers Think About Autonomous Trucking

What Truck Drivers Think About Autonomous Trucking


Via: Bob Nelson  •  13 comments  •  6 days ago
So this week , I've been visiting (and sleeping, eating and showering in) truck stops in Nevada, Utah and Idaho, to hear what truck drivers themselves have to say about the future of their profession. Wendy MacNaughton is a graphic journalist based in San Francisco.
Jun 21 11:53am @5 Most likely nearly every career truck driver (one whose core competency is driving a truck) will find autonomous trucks to be a bad thing.  
Uncle Bernie Saws Off His Own Limb with Outlandish Socialism Defense

Uncle Bernie Saws Off His Own Limb with Outlandish Socialism Defense


Via: XXJefferson#51  •  82 comments  •  one week ago
Democratic Presidential Candidate Bernie Sanders’ attempt to promote “democratic socialism” as a political platform recalls former Vice President Walter Mondale’s 1984 convention speech promise: “Mr. Reagan will raise taxes. And so will I. He won’t tell you. I just did.” A gift which my bosses at President Reagan’s re-election campaign accepted with undisguised glee. Especially when Fritz...
Jun 19 11:37am @2.4.1 "..." Then his looseness with the term 'socialism' is worse than I thought. "..." What is that supposed to mean?   
Jun 18 11:11pm @2.3.5 "..." Extremes are usually unlikely. "..." I was thinking more in terms of the USA.   Russia has always been strikingly different than the USA is myriad dimensions.
Jun 17 10:32pm @2.3.3 "..." You consider that going down the road to authoritarian rule?   Seems more like corporatocracy or plutocracy (given cronyism).   Regardless, my point was that a politician touting economic...
Jun 17 8:29pm @2.2.37 What do you mean by 'socialism'?
Jun 17 8:14pm @2.3.1 "..." But that does not mean that an individual proposing economic freedom is pushing policies that lead into authoritarian nonsense.    Note that capitalism is oft described as economic freedom....
Jun 17 8:08pm @2.2.36 "..." Capitalism is defined that way.   Ownership and thus control of the productive resources (MoP/MoD) is the most obvious factor for distinguishing capitalism from socialism.    "..." It...
Jun 17 7:47pm @2.2.34 "..." This is an excerpt from your quote.   You reply without quoting what you are trying to rebut.   And then fail to express a point of your own but dump quotes from other people.    What...
Jun 17 7:37pm @2.2.32 "..." This is not complicated. For capitalism (or any other -ism) to work a government must be in place to establish and enforce rules. Rules are constraints. If you think capitalism (etc.)...
Jun 17 5:16pm @2.2.28 "..." I can see you are responding to my post @2.2.26 but where are you answering the questions I posed? "..." If you are trying to argue that our nation is the example of capitalism sans...
Jun 17 5:06pm @5.2.2
Jun 17 4:46pm @2.2.26 In addition, no answers from you on these: "..."
Jun 17 4:24pm @5.2 It is a category of socialism.   Theories which fall under the category of democratic socialism typically are based on a free market economy, higher degrees of political democracy, workplace...
Jun 17 4:18pm @2.2.25 I see no rebuttal to the points I made.  Going personal is not a rebuttal. "..." Show me where this ⇑ is incorrect. "..." Show me where this ⇑  is...
Jun 17 3:18pm @2.2.22 "..." When you oft claim you have studied something for 60 years and still get it wrong it sort of diminishes the credibility of anything you write.   Ever consider that? "..." Where do you...
Jun 17 2:07pm @2.2.19 Do you not understand the defining characteristics of capitalism?   Capitalism is first an economic system.  What characteristics in your world define a capitalist economy?
Jun 17 1:29pm @3.2.4 Spot on.
Jun 17 1:28pm @2.2.16 Crony capitalism is an increasing problem.   It is 'bad capitalism'.    Labeling the entirety of capitalism in the USA as crony capitalism is both extreme and naive. Ridiculous, extreme and...
Jun 17 1:25pm @2.2.15 "..." The problem I see with your position is that you go to the extremes.     I will explain by breaking this down: forced:   Any nation that imposes laws must enforce same.   Thus virtually...
Jun 17 1:05pm @3.2.2 Yes, but you were also implying that the individual finds Bernie's policies to be a solution.   Ergo an advocate of social democracy (which is what Bernie is selling).
Jun 17 12:53pm @2.2.11 "..." That is ridiculous.   I am going to let someone else respond to this.   I do not have sufficient patience at the moment.
Jun 17 12:53pm @2.2.10 "..." "I see forced statism everywhere, oh my!" Calling everything that falls under the label 'socialism' today (a mixed and confused bag) forced statism is ridiculous.   Break it up and make...
Jun 17 12:32pm @2.2.7 "..." And then proceeded to talk social democracy while calling it 'socialism'.    There is no need to perpetuate the 'this is what I mean by socialism' nonsense.    He should explain his...
Jun 17 12:26pm @3.2 "..." That would be a person who would vote for a guy like Bernie.   The individual is not a democratic socialist (a sub-category of socialism in general), he is an advocate of what democratic...
Jun 17 12:14pm @2.2.5 I see no value in raising the volume on a label when the label itself has contradictory meaning and the actual meaning is a concept that is inconsistent with the current USA culture.    I can see...
Jun 17 10:46am @2.2.3 I am confident that Trump supporters are doing what partisans always do:   accept and accentuate the positive and ignore or downplay the negative.    Individual supporters are probably not doing...
Jun 17 10:36am @2.2.1 I only rely upon what he says when it comes to his positions. You actually presume that I get my information from right wing sites?    Bernie is comical because of his insistence on self-labeling...
Jun 17 10:35am @2.1.1 "..." Those 'places' do not have Democratic Socialism in place.    You are (again, in spite of being informed numerous times) conflating Democratic Socialism with social democracy.   If you look...
Jun 17 1:37am @2 "..." Funny thing, here Bernie does actually get it right.   He properly stated a key objective of Democratic Socialism.   It is naive and unrealistic for him to run on such an objective given...
Happy Birthday Perrie!

Happy Birthday Perrie!


By: Uptownchick  •  75 comments  •  one week ago
Happy birthday to someone who is smart, gorgeous, funny and reminds me a lot of myself… from one fabulous chick to another!
Jun 18 11:07pm @31 Happy (not even a leading 6 digit) Birthday Perrie.
What does your car know about you? More than you might think.

What does your car know about you? More than you might think.


Via: Perrie Halpern R.A.  •  167 comments  •  13 hours ago
Jun 18 10:19pm @16.2.5 "..." No, they are programmatic controllers.   The have a smartphone app that allows you to install devices and control what they do.   However the devices you own and what they do certainly is...
Jun 18 12:44pm @16.2.1 You do not need Alexa (echo) for that.   You just need a smart device controller like SmartThings or Wink and the appropriate (compatible) sensors.
Jun 18 12:36am @16 It is only going to get worse.   Today, we tether our smart phones to our smart cars to gain really cool, convenient functionality like being able to talk to our steering wheel to send a text to a...
US Cyber Command has reportedly been aggressively targeting Russia’s electrical grid

US Cyber Command has reportedly been aggressively targeting Russia’s electrical grid


Via: Bob Nelson  •  11 comments  •  one week ago
The United States Cyber Command has made a number of incursions into Russia’s electrical infrastructure in recent months, according to a new report in The New York Times . Officials that the publication spoke with characterized the moves as a warning to Russia that the US is willing to operate more aggressively in this arena to deter potential cyberattacks. According to the Times...
Jun 17 1:30pm @2.1.1 Totally agree (sadly).
Jun 16 11:04am @2 There is no question that cyber attacks take place and will continue to do so indefinitely.   Deterrence is important (a potential offensive move) but of course defense is more critical.   I am...
Four in 10 Americans prefer socialism to capitalism, poll finds

Four in 10 Americans prefer socialism to capitalism, poll finds


Via: Bob Nelson  •  158 comments  •  one week ago
Forty percent of Americans would rather live in a socialist country than a capitalist one, with a majority of younger women having this preference, according to a new poll. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez at the Puerto Rican Day parade in New York on Sunday. Ocasio-Cortez is an avowed democratic socialist. Jose Alvarado Jr/Reuters That four in 10 respondents supported socialism...
Jun 15 1:39am @6.1.61 "..." Seems to me that a survey in which the participants do not even have a clue as to what they are being asked has more profound problems than the sampling methodology.
Jun 15 1:36am @5.2.12 "..." Which definition of socialism do you have in mind now?    
Jun 15 1:32am @2.1.20 "..." You can talk tough with complete safety because none of your concerns will occur within our lifetimes, if ever.    You might as well be bragging about how you will pilot your jet into the...
Jun 15 1:21am @2.1.18 "..." That is extremely unlikely.    "..." We are not 19th century Europe.   Get a grip.    If our economic system ever becomes something that qualifies as socialism (not the emotionally...
Jun 15 1:17am @1.1.11 "..." Correct.  Congratulations. ( You apparently missed JBB's rather obvious sarcasm. )
Jun 15 12:36am @12.1 "..." 99 out of 100 is more like it.
Jun 14 7:59pm @2.1.13 Too many people seem stubbornly determined to be wrong.
Jun 14 3:32pm @2.1.10 "..." Yet you insist on getting it wrong.
Jun 14 1:56pm @6.1.52 The statistical integrity of the sampling is less of a concern than the fact that the respondents seem to be largely clueless about socialism and were instead responding to the label. If anything,...
Jun 13 1:23pm @6.1.32 Spot on.
Jun 13 10:36am @6.1.27 "..." I would love to sit down with Bernie Sanders or AOC and explain to them the difference between socialism  —in particular Democratic Socialism— and social democracy.   I could show them how...
Jun 12 9:07pm @6.1.22 "..." I have lost count of the number of times people have used ambiguity to move the goalposts.    Context usually is insufficient to nail down a meaning in this topic.   Personally I am well...
Jun 12 5:17pm @6.1.18 "..." Hard to do that with people running about crying 'socialism' at every turn.   We even have some here on NT who see facists and Marxists everywhere.
Jun 12 5:13pm @6.1.17 "..." Well of course.   But if you are referring to someone else who simply used the term 'socialism' unqualified then how could you possibly know their meaning?    If they have established clear...
Jun 12 5:08pm @5.2.10 You are (curiously) insisting that economic control is the same as indirect influence.   Consumers have indirect influence over companies.   Consumer influence is arguably greater than that of...
Jun 12 4:10pm @6.1.14 "..." Indeed, my point exactly.   Although I would say 'few' rather than 'nobody'. "..." But you just acknowledged that the term is a homonym.   So how you define it when you use it in a...
Jun 12 4:01pm @2.1.8 "..." I agree.  You might have noticed that this is why I encourage people to not simply use the term 'socialism' but to qualify what they actually mean.  The word 'socialism' unqualified is...
Jun 12 3:52pm @5.2.8 "..." I am not.   It is really more about necessity and influence for civil society.     The mode of production changes over time but the necessity and influence of factors will always be in...
Jun 12 3:33pm @6.1.11 "..." It really does matter.  If one constructs a sentence using the term 'socialism' unqualified there are myriad usages that could apply.   The sentence is ambiguous. "..." That...
Jun 12 2:08pm @6.1.8 Define 'socialism' as you use the term.
Jun 12 2:07pm @5.2.5 The means of production and distribution: includes factors such as land, facilities, equipment, tools, materials, capital, infrastructure.   That which is required to provide the consumables...
Jun 12 1:35pm @2.1.6 You should read what you copy & pasted. What point do you wish to make other than Democratic Socialism is complex and includes transitional factors?
Jun 12 11:43am @5.2.3 For clarity:  socialism  = collective (all the people) control over the productive resources of the economy capitalism = minority  (aristocracy) control over the productive resources of the...
Jun 12 11:18am @2.1.4 "..." The USA is not going to 'flip' to socialism.   If the USA ever has a system wherein the people have control over the productive resources of the economy (as opposed to a minority holding...
Jun 11 11:08pm @1.1.5 This  ⇧  is what I expected.
Jun 11 10:34pm @1.1.3 I think you are being generous.
Jun 11 10:18pm @1.1.1 Name the characteristics that determine a 'socialist economy' and three nations that you consider to be running a socialist economy.
 How social media is shaping what people know — and don't know — about the Hong Kong protests

How social media is shaping what people know — and don't know — about the Hong Kong protests


Via: Perrie Halpern R.A.  •  52 comments  •  2 weeks ago
By   Arjun Kharpal, CNBC Social media has played an important role in   Hong Kong’s   anti-government   protests over the past few days   with protesters planning their moves via apps and mainland China users apparently blocked from learning about the unrest on multiple platforms. Hundreds of thousands have taken to the streets since Sunday, protesting a   proposed government law to...
Jun 15 12:19am @1.2.21    I call him 'Dig' for convenience.   I doubt Dig worries about little things like the spelling of his forum name.  
Jun 14 11:59pm @2.1.8 China is an interesting modern example of state capitalism.  ( Actually a mix of several -isms including private sector capitalism, but you really should investigate the state capitalism factor of...
Jun 14 11:56pm @1.2.19 Dignitatem Societatis
Jun 14 11:54pm @1.2.18 "..." Hardly.   A small investment in basic research (just Google 'Market Socialism') shows that it most certainly is not an oxymoron.   For a very good model of market socialism it might be...
EX-TOP IAEA OFFICIAL WARNS OF CLANDESTINE IRANIAN NUKE SITES

EX-TOP IAEA OFFICIAL WARNS OF CLANDESTINE IRANIAN NUKE SITES


Via: Buzz of the Orient  •  12 comments  •  2 weeks ago
EX-TOP IAEA OFFICIAL WARNS OF CLANDESTINE IRANIAN NUKE SITES Last week, Heinonen made waves when he warned KAN radio that Iran could make enough material for a nuclear weapon in six to eight months. BY YONAH JEREMY BOB, JERUSALEM POST, JUNE 10, 2019 IAEA cameras in Iranian uranium enrichment facility 311. (photo credit: REUTERS) Iran may be hiding as many as five...
Jun 14 7:50am @7 An Islamic theocracy armed with weapons of mass destruction is among the most dangerous scenarios;  worse than an unstable, brutal dictator like Kim Jong-un.    Of the world's religions, the...
Knox County DA 'looking into' detective's church sermon calling for execution of LGBTQ people

Knox County DA 'looking into' detective's church sermon calling for execution of LGBTQ people


Via: epistte  •  48 comments  •  2 weeks ago  •  LOCKED
In the hourlong sermon based on an Old Testament passage, Detective Grayson Fritts, also a pastor at All Scripture Baptist Church in Knoxville, told his congregation June 2 that he believes that federal, state and county governments should arrest, try, convict and "speedily" execute people within the LGBTQ community on no more grounds than a cell phone photo of a person participating in a...
Jun 13 2:17am @1.1 It is that pesky Old Testament.
LGBT+ pride marches in US interrupted by neo-Nazis and stampede

LGBT+ pride marches in US interrupted by neo-Nazis and stampede


Via: Tessylo  •  167 comments  •  2 weeks ago  •  LOCKED
U.S. LGBT+ pride marches in US interrupted by neo-Nazis and stampede   Tom Embury-Dennis, The Independent   Sun, Jun 9 5:05 AM EDT Two separate LGBT pride marches disrupted by neo-Nazis, stampede Separate   LGBT+ pride   marches in the US were disrupted on Saturday, one by a stampede triggered over fears of a shooting and another by one of America’s biggest neo-Nazi...
Jun 13 1:48am @6.1.18 Accusing someone of defending Nazis is a particularly vile thing to do.   Best to be on solid ground.   In this case, you are not. Epistte made no defense of Nazis.   She stated that the Nazis...
I Want To Thank Perrie

I Want To Thank Perrie


By: JohnRussell  •  55 comments  •  2 weeks ago
I am creating this article for the purpose of thanking Perrie for everything she does for Newstalkers , and for being a great leader of this forum for 8 years. Lord knows it has not always been easy for her. There are times when the membership, the topics and the comments and even interactions of members can "try men's souls".  I imagine there are times when she feels up against it....
Jun 12 5:51pm @5 I do not know how she does it at times.   What goes on behind the scenes (beyond the endless drama of the moderation task) to keep a forum like NT going is greatly underappreciated (because people...
‘Socialism for the rich’: the evils of bad economics

‘Socialism for the rich’: the evils of bad economics


Via: Bob Nelson  •  121 comments  •  2 weeks ago
I n most rich countries , inequality is rising, and has been rising for some time. Many people believe this is a problem, but, equally, many think there’s not much we can do about it. After all, the argument goes, globalisation and new technology have created an economy in which those with highly valued skills or talents can earn huge rewards. ‘There’s been class warfare going on...
Jun 11 11:06pm @5.3.11 Your comment was generic and vague.   No way to know unless you offer something specific to qualify your implicit sarcasm.
Jun 11 10:13pm @5.3.9 What are the defining characteristics of a 'Marxist country'?
Jun 11 9:10pm @5.2.13 "..." It is fair to interpret Marx as being more focused on supply-side but not to the point of labeling his views as supply-side economics.    Marx saw production and consumption in a natural...
Jun 11 12:43pm @5.2.9 "..." It will be entertaining to watch you and LFOD debate with your ‘interesting’ views of Marxism.    
Jun 10 7:50pm @5.3.4 "..." I think I see the problem.   You do not look at the dynamics and objectives of a system, rather you look for people who have views you like and deem them truth.  In today's world, for any...
Jun 10 7:41pm @5.2.6 "..." That is such a ridiculous claim.   What do you hope to accomplish by redefining words as you do.   The USA is solidly running a capitalist economy.   To deny that is like claiming a flat...
Jun 10 7:37pm @5.2.5 "..." Yes.   He considered himself a Marxist and was well read on Marx.    The better question is:  did Lenin implement Marxism?.  The next question is:  when did Lenin realize that he was not...
Jun 10 6:32pm @5.2.2 As I noted, you use the term 'communist' to equate to statist authoritarian rule.   Equating that with the ideas of Marx is a total disconnect. "..." I suppose that depends on what you mean by...
Jun 10 6:19pm @4.1.13 I waited for you to respond before weighing in since katrix replied to you. However, per katrix @4.1.11: "..." Family owned businesses certainly should be passed along as inheritance and even...
Jun 10 6:03pm @5.1.3 "..." Gonna let this single quote make my point for me.
Jun 10 6:02pm @5.3.2 "..." Note this from you: "..." If you label a country 'Marxist' you are stating that it has implemented what Marx offered.  If you do not think that a 'Marxist country' is following what...
Jun 10 4:11pm @4.1.10 "..." I do not know why: "..." Emphasizing your point the it is crucial that wealth be earned. "..." Offering Gates as an example of a person who earned great wealth.    To emphasize that...
Jun 10 4:02pm @5.3 "..." Illustrating the silliness of some of your comments:    Where do you find Marx advocating a class system wherein the wealthy (the aristocracy) are the preferred rulers? In your 60 years...
Jun 10 3:58pm @4.1.8 So do you think your point is different than the one I made?
Jun 10 3:40pm @5.2 There are no Marxist nations.   The social democracies, however, are real. Statism is generally bad; and so is aristocracy.
Jun 10 3:36pm @4.1.6 Not sure why the disconnect;  ‘critical mass’ refers to the level of wealth where most is used as investment capital.   So at least 40% per your comment is a result of having achieved critical mass.
Jun 10 1:47pm @3.1.57 The trick is to have marketable skills.   Unfortunately for some, skills that were valuable in the past can become obsolete in our ever-changing environment. 
Jun 10 1:15pm @4.1.4 Did you not read the balance of my original post @4.1 where I noted critical mass?
Jun 10 1:11pm @3.1.56 "..." Hardly.   There are tons of jobs where human beings are  manually completing business processes by copying and pasting info, typing info on paper into the system, etc.   Those jobs are the...
Jun 10 12:31pm @3.1.54 Agreed.   It is always best to have a clear understanding of reality ... good or bad.   Nothing good comes from wishful thinking.
Jun 10 12:24pm @4.1.2 Gates had the correct vision, executed his strategy and it worked.   To his credit.   Of course he had help, but he led the charge.   Entrepreneurial insight, tenacity and drive is a very good...
Jun 10 12:22pm @3.1.52 "..." Beliefs tend to follow desires.    
Jun 10 12:19pm @3.1.51 "..." A lot of the under-qualified candidates represent untapped human potential.   That is, their potential does not match their qualifications. Stay tuned, with robotic process automation...
Jun 10 11:45am @4.1 "..." Crucial:  "have never done anything to "earn" their inheritance".    Gates, in contrast, did quite a bit to earn great wealth (albeit much of his wealth is a result of achieving critical...
Jun 10 11:39am @3.1.48 "..." In general, the skills required of executive management justify very high compensation.   The decisions made at the top have substantial impact on the success (or failure) of the entity....
Jun 10 11:23am @3.1.47 "..." Overall, USA economic mobility is indeed waning —it is not as grand as we perceive it to be— but plenty of opportunity remains in the USA.   I was focusing on the lower quintiles (albeit...
Jun 09 10:44pm @3.1.41 The problem is not a different view, it is your apparent refusal to address the point I actually made.    As I just explained @3.1.39: I did not state a preference that people earn less. I...
Jun 09 10:07pm @3.1.39 "..." Texan, you never seem to fail to miss the point no matter how many times it is repeated.  I did not state a preference that people earn less. I stated a preference that more people earn...
Jun 09 8:16pm @3.1.37 "..." We are talking about equal opportunity, right?   I stipulated upfront that the USA offers good opportunities compared to most other nations.   So listing the opportunities available in the...
Jun 09 6:45pm @3.1.35 "..." Compared to most other nations.   In absolute terms, opportunities even within our admirable system are vastly unequal.   Your phrase "and get the right education" is a key factor.   We...
Jun 09 12:56pm @3.1.22 "..." Then you substituted your own thoughts and ignored what I expressed.   Same difference. "..." I do not support income equality.   Never made any statement that even remotely hints that...
Jun 09 12:49pm @3.1.21 "..." My comment was on emphasis.   Here we go again, this is what I wrote: "..." I am suggesting that success is better stated in terms of everyone being enabled to be successful rather than...
Jun 09 12:14pm @3.1.9 "..." You really should read a post before replying to it.    You and I agree that equal outcomes is a bad idea yet you seem to presume that I think it is a good idea.   I asked you two...
Jun 09 12:10pm @3.1.7 "..." To me, success is better expressed as the ability for all persons to pursue their ambitions.   To me it is much better to enable the potential for success for all rather than focus on...
Jun 09 12:07pm @3.1.5 "..." Where do you find people arguing for equal outcomes?   Also, if equal outcomes were desirable (and they most certainly are not) how would anyone propose to accomplish this magical feat?
New York state lawmakers introduce bill to decriminalize sex work

New York state lawmakers introduce bill to decriminalize sex work


Via: Perrie Halpern R.A.  •  79 comments  •  2 weeks ago
By   Erik Ortiz A group of Democratic lawmakers in New York state introduced a bill Monday that seeks to decriminalize sex work and make it legal to engage in the consensual sale of sex. The   bill , which follows similar legislative efforts in other states, including Massachusetts and Maine, would go further by vacating prior convictions of people engaged in activity that would no...
Jun 11 9:16pm @15.1.7 "..." Is rape a reproductive decision? I am just interested to see if you seriously are focused on reproductive decision and not just that once a woman is pregnant she should have no choice but...
Jun 11 9:17am @3.1.3 Your post confuses me.   You seem to saying that under legal prostitution there would be regulations that include drug addiction and disease.   But then you ask if under legal prostitution if we...
Jun 11 1:36am @3.1 For public health reasons, I think regulation is a necessity.
Jun 11 1:34am @1.1 Personally, I have never understood why a non-desperate man would seek a prostitute.   Maybe I am too logical, but I am not interested in someone who I know is faking it.   I prefer a real...
Gun Seller That Bet Big on Hillary Clinton Getting Elected Goes Bankrupt

Gun Seller That Bet Big on Hillary Clinton Getting Elected Goes Bankrupt


Via: Tessylo  •  34 comments  •  2 weeks ago
Gun Seller That Bet Big on Hillary Clinton Getting Elected Goes Bankrupt   Jeremy Hill, Bloomberg   15 hours ago   Gun Seller That Bet Big on Hillary Clinton Getting Elected Goes Bankrupt (Bloomberg) -- Firearms distributor United Sporting Cos. loaded up on guns ahead of the 2016 U.S. presidential election, expecting a surge in sales would follow the...
Jun 11 12:32pm @6.1.2 So you really were just expressing the obvious general principle that it is good for the free market to weed out poorly managed businesses. You did not really mean that it is good when employees...
Jun 11 11:09am @6.1 "..." It does not seem as though the owner was a Hillary supporter.   (Not likely that a retail gun establishment owner would support Hillary.)  However, he apparently was convinced that Hillary...
Ricky Gervais And Stephen Go Head-To-Head On Religion

Ricky Gervais And Stephen Go Head-To-Head On Religion


Via: TᵢG  •  135 comments  •  4 days ago
Ricky in his usual soft-delivery of brutal candor offers a clear description of agnostic atheism (i.e. the position of most every atheist) and demonstrates why he is an agnostic atheist. Here is the operative part of the short video: Stephen:         Talking about hell before, about this tweet about you going to hell.  And I know that you're an atheist, correct? Ricky:...
Jun 11 12:02am @3.2.104 You have hit on one of the critical flaws in the definition of the biblical God.   God is omniscient (knows everything) yet God is surprised and/or disappointed by the decisions of His creations....
Jun 10 12:04pm @3.2.99 This is going nowhere fast.   Cease perpetuating personal exchanges.   If you have something topical or subtopical to offer then do so.   If not, best to move on.
Jun 09 5:16pm @3.2.95 "..." Translation:   Damn, he is right, I really did mangle what he wrote.   Since he quoted his original words and quoted his prior explanation of those words as proof I have no wiggle room....
Jun 09 1:02pm @3.1.19 "..." Believing something without sufficient evidence = speculation. It is what it is.
Jun 09 12:39pm @3.2.85 "..." Yet another invention.   Read what I actually wrote: "..." Here I stipulate that engineers (at least competent engineers) do not base their designs on unevidenced, unproven principles....
Jun 09 12:30pm @3.2.84 "..." Pretending to not understand what I wrote is a dishonest tactic.   Worse given this has already been explained to you.   Here is what I wrote: "..." I establish that asking for proof is...
Jun 09 11:57am @3.1.17 "..." A gap of knowledge is never going to be legitimately filled with mere speculation (faith) no matter how deeply held the belief.
Jun 09 11:53am @3.1.16 Where do you see Sandy stating a requirement for proof?   She was talking about evidence and the lack of knowledge in unfounded belief.
Jun 09 11:46am @3.2.82 "..." I have been quite direct in my comments.   Since your reference is vague there is no way to know to what you consider an answer in a 'round about way'. "..." Where did you get that from...
Jun 09 11:33am @3.1.14 "..." I prefer this simple but accurate expression of the agnostic atheist:  'I am not convinced any god exists.'   To me, that says it all. "..." Here you are using 'know' (in its various...
Jun 09 11:15am @3.2.80 "..." No, that was an assertion.   You could challenge my assertion and I would be obliged to back it up with an argument.   But an assertion is not itself a strawman argument.    "..."...
Jun 08 10:22pm @3.2.75 Sparty On's answer is essentially 'I just believe'.   I doubt he will offer anything more than 'I just believe' since that common presupposition is expected to be taken as a given and not questioned.
Jun 08 4:53pm @3.2.68 "..." It is what I stated.   If someone claims something to be true, they should expect to be challenged to deliver evidence to back up the claim.   If they made an unfalsifiable claim (one that...
Jun 07 11:01pm @3.2.65 "..." Let me try to paraphrase what you wrote.   If this is wrong, I ask that you explain why it is wrong: When asked why you believe in God, your answer is faith.   You hold that the reason you...
Jun 07 11:12am @3.2.61 "..." Pretty sure we have all agreed on this all along.   I certainly have.   So now let's go back to where you and I were discussing the explanatory power of faith:    "..." Faith in itself...
Jun 07 10:46am @3.2.56 "..." Only with the most generous usages of the word.   Oxford, for example, has a secondary usage of "A pursuit or interest followed with great devotion" and Merriam has a usage of "a cause,...
Jun 04 4:48pm @3.2.24 "..." Just like flat-Earthers define the Earth to be a domed circle.   To them it is true because they define it as such.   But clearly defining a term is not the same as knowledge.   Defining...
Jun 04 4:26pm @3.2.21 "..." Certainly not if you are only going to repeat your claim that faith has explanatory power.    I have provided reasons for my position.   You have stated that faith explains one's belief in...
Jun 04 2:02pm @3.1.8 "..." Good point.   In addition, I think it would be hellish to be floating on clouds, listening to harp music and perpetually praising the creator.
Jun 04 2:00pm @3.2.11 "..." Works for me. "..." Faith is the means by which belief in God is sustained; it does not explain anything.   For example, Young Earth Creationists believe that the Earth (indeed the...
Jun 04 12:17pm @3.2.6 "..." Yes.   I suspect faith is more a result of needing to believe (e.g. provides comfort).
Jun 04 11:46am @3.2.4 "..." I agree.   In fact, the existence of God is not even evidenced, much less proven. "..." True.   It is not possible to prove that something does not exist unless that something is...
Jun 04 11:21am @3.1.5 Many people, it would seem, need to believe.   I can certainly understand that.   Facing the harsh realities (best we can tell) of life is not easy.   Nobody wants their existence to end at death....
Jun 04 10:48am @3.2.1 "..." Yes, faith = believing something without sufficient evidence (proof is too high of a bar).    Or, per Oxford (using the religious usage of course): "..." Everyone here (including Ricky...
Jun 04 1:55am @3.1.2 Eventually, we human beings may reach a point where we accept that our knowledge is limited by what we can evidence.   At that point we may give up the pretense that we can legitimately fill our...
Jun 04 12:17am @3.1 People should ask for evidence rather than proof.    That said, our existence is probably the single most significant question posed by human beings.   Answering that question with 'I believe the...
Jun 03 11:57pm @2.1 Given the time they had I thought they accomplished plenty — and they were civil.   Ricky nailed the concept of atheism (oft misunderstood) and made a very good point for why science is a better...
Jun 03 11:39pm @1 "..." Not likely, but point well made.
Closest-known ancestor of today’s Native Americans found in Siberia

Closest-known ancestor of today’s Native Americans found in Siberia


Via: Kavika  •  30 comments  •  2 weeks ago
Indigenous Americans, who include Alaska Natives, Canadian First Nations, and Native Americans, descend from humans who crossed an ancient land bridge connecting Siberia in Russia to Alaska tens of thousands of years ago. But scientists are unclear when and where these early migrants moved from place to place. Two new studies shed light on this mystery and uncover the most closely related...
Jun 10 11:41pm @8.1.3 Excellent point, language evolves too and thus imparts substantial knowledge including insight into their culture.
Jun 10 11:04pm @8.1.1 And then, once found, imagine all we can discover from the DNA.
Jun 10 10:37pm @8 Piecing together the bits of our history is fascinating.   It is amazing the kind of information we are capable of discerning nowadays.
Jun 10 10:33pm @6.2 You will never convince the Young Earth Creationists.    
What would you choose?

What would you choose?


By: MrFrost  •  85 comments  •  2 weeks ago
So, simple question... If you could choose to be any being, what would you choose? Fictional? Non-fictional? Fantasy? Science fiction? Over the eons of time, what would you choose to live as? Mammal, reptile, amphibian... Take your pick...
Jun 10 10:47pm @16.2 Jeannie.
Futuristic 'Flying V' airplane could change the way we fly

Futuristic 'Flying V' airplane could change the way we fly


Via: Perrie Halpern R.A.  •  31 comments  •  3 weeks ago
Jun 08 10:54pm @2.2.3 Indeed, getting new products to work properly and operate within desired cost parameters is a tough gig.   
Jun 08 7:04pm @2.2.1 "..." Yup, we have proof that the flying wing concept does indeed work.    I am confident they can design a safe jet such as this vision.   What I am not so sure of is the ability to do so in a...
Jun 08 1:59am @2 No way to know if this is practical except to wait and see.    We know that what seems impossible to one generation is commonplace to another.    Could our grandkids be flying on such a design ......
Why atheists are not as rational as some like to think -- The Conversation

Why atheists are not as rational as some like to think -- The Conversation


Via: Nerm_L  •  103 comments  •  3 weeks ago
Many atheists think that their atheism is the product of rational thinking. They use arguments such as “I don’t believe in God, I believe in science” to explain that evidence and logic, rather than supernatural belief and dogma, underpin their thinking. But just because you believe in evidence-based, scientific research – which is subject to strict checks and procedures – doesn’t mean that...
Jun 06 6:31pm @1.1.39 "..." This is too silly for me to continue.
Jun 06 5:51pm @1.1.37 "..." Seems to me you have your own meaning for the word 'divine'.   Apparently you define 'divine' to mean 'about God'.    Silly me going by the conventional meaning of the word: "..." 'Of...
Jun 06 1:06pm @1.1.35 "..." I disagree, my statement is spot on.   Just because an author was inspired by his/her belief and faith does not mean that their resulting book is divine.    Further, your 'because' does...
Jun 06 12:57pm @1.1.34 "..." Correct.   Rather obvious. "..." Correct, that is not what science does. "..." Theology, IMO, dreams up ideas.   It does not unravel mysteries, it simply invents and then declares...
Jun 06 11:42am @1.1.29 "..." Why did you pretend that by 'belief and faith' I was not speaking of 'belief and faith in God'?   That was the context; I even explicitly stated 'religious books'.   You chose to ignore the...
Jun 06 11:14am @1.1.27 "..." You do not distinguish between science and the abuse of scientific findings? Science unravels the mysteries of reality.   That knowledge can be used for productive and for...
Jun 05 11:34pm @1.1.24 "..." No.   A book whose author was inspired by belief and faith is not ipso facto divine.   With your definition we could easily find thousands of religious books that you would have to deem...
Jun 05 10:59pm @1.1.19 "..." Would you consider any book that was inspired by belief and faith in God to be divine? "..." A non answer.
Jun 05 3:43pm @1.1.15 "..." There is no getting beyond it.   We have all observed believers run out of answers, clearly in a conceptual dilemma, only to ignore the problem and deflect.  It is as though they see the...
Jun 05 3:32pm @3.1.17 "..." Deepak Chopra style answers are a waste of time.  I am not going to try to unravel this. My post was about your conflating two distinct usages of 'faith'.   What you wrote in reply is a...
Jun 05 3:28pm @5.1.8 "..." Explain. "..." Science does not attempt to refute either.   Science is a process of discovery and explanation of observations.   The fact that science provides well-founded explanations...
Jun 05 3:25pm @5.1.7 "..." A non answer.   Faith is not an explanation nor is it knowledge.   Faith is wishful thinking.
Jun 05 3:23pm @1.1.13 The question now is if either of them will be honestly and directly answered.   Certainly not with 'that is why we have faith' or equivalent.
Jun 05 11:35am @3.1.9 "..." Pick a usage of faith and stick with it.   It is vague and semantically flawed to mix both usages of faith together.   The two usages of 'faith' per Oxford: Complete trust or confidence in...
Jun 05 11:28am @1.1.8 "..." If God cannot be evidenced then how can the Bible be deemed divine?    How can anything anyone claims to be true about God be considered credible?   If one claims to believe certain things...
Jun 05 11:25am @3.1.8 "..." You are focusing on the usage of 'faith' which means rational expectation that what has been consistently found to be true will more likely than not be true.    If I drop my iPhone I am...
Jun 05 11:16am @5.1.2 "..." No, it is what I wrote.   An atheist is simply not convinced a god exists.   Since the existence of the supreme entity, creator of the known universe is a very big deal, the lack of a shred...
Jun 05 11:10am @5.1.1 "..." That is more an analogy for deism rather than theism.    One who merely holds that a creator is the most likely reason for the existence of the known universe and who does not presuppose...
Jun 05 1:12am @1.2.2 Since you are not being specific it is not possible to assess the quality of your claim.   So let's assume that you are correct and that atheists take a lot of things on faith. My question is...
Jun 05 1:00am @5 "..." Basically yet another article attempting to portray an atheist as a believer so as to claim that both atheists and theists operate on faith and thus their opposing views are equivalent....
The Independents Dilemma

The Independents Dilemma


By: Perrie Halpern R.A.  •  474 comments  •  3 weeks ago  •  LOCKED
Recently in a political discussion, I was asked why do I always take a side. I was kind of shocked since I really don't participate in political discussions much. The reality of my life is that I don't take sides in politics since I view partisanship as pointless. What I do care about are the issues, the character of the politician, and current events that will impact my life.  But the...
Jun 06 4:12pm @26.2.123 Given you cannot offer any supporting analysis for the Critique of the Gotha Programme you have chosen to change the subject to the transition from capitalism to socialism.   Okay. "..." As it...
Jun 06 3:34pm @26.2.122 Do some research Texan.
Jun 06 3:32pm @26.2.121 We react differently.   I find it funny (and sad).
Jun 06 3:13pm @26.2.115 You were not disagreeing with me.   You made a comment to Bob.    The problem is that you parroted a commonly cited Marx quote that does not mean what you imply it means.   I gave you the source...
Jun 06 3:04pm @26.2.111 "..." So to support your 'my tooth is longer than yours' claim, you quote Marx sans any analysis.     Congratulations on finding 'Critique of the Gotha Programme' and doing a copy & paste....
Jun 06 1:56pm @26.2.69 That was tongue in cheek.   I was emphasizing my disgust with politicians and their irresponsible abuse of tax revenues.   In other words, taxation would, with modern politicians, quickly degrade...
Jun 06 1:36pm @26.2.57 In principle I think you are correct.   Inheritance tax (or another measure) would not apply to small to medium family owned businesses but rather would serve as a governing agent for runaway...
Jun 06 1:27pm @26.2.55 "..." An example of why this subject is so complex.   Everywhere you turn we see that 'it depends'.   Further, it is quite difficult for people to start with our existing system and devise a...
Jun 06 1:16pm @26.2.52 "..." You clearly do not understand what Marx was saying.   That is the problem with parroting phrases without actually going to the source material and reading what the author was saying in his...
Jun 06 1:12pm @26.2.50 "..." Suffice it to say, it is much easier to describe an objective (and that is really all I did) than it is to devise a system that would achieve that objective and not introduce negative...
Jun 06 1:09pm @26.2.49 "..." I think that ultimately is what Bob was saying.   
Jun 06 12:10pm @26.2.28 History has shown that the unchecked consolidation of power is undesirable.    Strong leaders (e.g. entrepreneurs) are net good as they drive people towards productive accomplishments.   But that...
Jun 06 11:32am @26.2.22 "..." Given it has never existed in a national economy, distributed economic control is likely to never exist (at least not in our lifetimes).   But that was not my point.    My point is that...
Jun 06 10:31am @26.2.17 "..." Those are all enterprises operating in a capitalist economy.   In all cases, the enterprise owns their portion of the MoP/MoD and hires employees who are not the exclusive owners and who...
Jun 05 10:00pm @22.2.1 "..." How revealing.   Not 'my' point of view (indicating critical thinking) but 'our' point of view (suggesting group-think). "..." Because ... ?     I am aware that you also hold that...
Jun 03 5:08pm @6.2.1 Good point.
Jun 03 5:03pm @7.1.4 Hard to say what Perot might have done.   But we do know that he was 'all ears' so there you go. 
Jun 03 5:02pm @7.1.3 "..." I know.   I was using your example.
Jun 03 4:54pm @6.1.1 "..." Exactly.  You are an independent.  An independent would not vote middle-of-the-road any more than she would vote either extreme. 
Jun 03 4:51pm @7.1 "..." True.    Being an independent voter does not mean voting for a declared Independent candidate.   That is tacit partisanship.   An independent voter could have voted for Bush, Clinton or...
Jun 03 4:45pm @3.3 "..." Moderates (what you just described) are not Independents.   Moderates are similar to partisans;  the difference is that moderates try to find a happy medium between the parties.   That is...
Jun 03 4:40pm @6 Some people cannot imagine that a person would not follow the lead of a political party.   I, in contrast, find it amazing that so many seem to adopt as true almost everything their chosen party...
A wealthy televangelist explains his fleet of private jets: ‘It’s a biblical thing’

A wealthy televangelist explains his fleet of private jets: ‘It’s a biblical thing’


Via: Gordy327  •  88 comments  •  3 weeks ago
In the waning days of 2015, renowned televangelist Kenneth Copeland laid out exactly why he needs a luxury private jet to do his job: you can’t “talk to God” while riding commercial. Criticized at the time for his use of extravagant planes, Copeland argued travel for his work would be difficult, nay, impossible without them. The Texas-based preacher invoked his mentor, prosperity gospel...
Jun 05 7:16pm @8.1.22 Interesting idea, I will give it some thought Enoch.
Jun 04 5:58pm @8.1.20 "..." I agree that the intuitive analysis makes it appear as though free will is a given.   But we have found (especially in the last century) that our senses and our intuition (which is evolved...
Jun 04 2:12pm @8.1.10 "..." Yes.   The prosperity gospel televangelists are con-men who exploit the gullibility of faithful Christians.   They contradict the most common Christian teachings.   They clearly are not...
Jun 04 2:06pm @8.1.8 Well this is just another case where you are dead wrong.    Best to not invent your own truth.   This seed focuses on a minority of Christian authorities and specifically on the category of...
Jun 04 12:22pm @8.1 A ridiculous stereotype that illustrates you missed the point of the article. This article does not claim that these con-men are your typical Christian priests, preachers, ministers or pastors....
Jun 04 11:48am @4.1.1 An example of why I am such a proponent for critical thinking.
Jun 04 11:30am @4 Copeland is one of the worst.   It just amazes me that so many people support these con-men.   How gullible can one be?    Many of them are elderly and desperate (e.g. dying of cancer and looking...
YouTube star who tricked a homeless man into eating Oreos filled with toothpaste because it would 'clean his teeth' gets 15 months in prison

YouTube star who tricked a homeless man into eating Oreos filled with toothpaste because it would 'clean his teeth' gets 15 months in prison


Via: JohnRussell  •  8 comments  •  3 weeks ago
www.msn.com YouTube prankster who tricked a homeless man into eating Oreos filled with toothpaste was sentenced to 15 months in prison by a Spanish court on Friday.A Barcelona court ordered Kanghua Ren to also pay $22,300 in compensation.Since he is a first-time offender, Spanish law usually suspends prison time for those sentenced to less than two years, according to The...
Jun 03 11:39am @6 I will likely never understand why some people are capable of cruelty to others.   It is as if they do not recognize the other as a human being — that they never consider their acts from the...
Ancient star explosions could have led early humans to walk upright

Ancient star explosions could have led early humans to walk upright


Via: Perrie Halpern R.A.  •  46 comments  •  3 weeks ago
More than six million years have passed since early humans first walked upright, and it’s still unclear exactly why we made the switch from four legs to two. One popular theory holds that the change was the natural result of an evolving landscape that made it more efficient to walk upright. Now a pair of physicists have come up with an underlying cause for that shift — and it’s a wild one:...
Jun 02 11:43am @6.2 The pet dinosaur creation 'scientists' believe the Earth is less than 10,000 years old.