Vladimir Putin: Restoration of empire is the endgame for Russia's president - CNN
By: CNN
For anyone who might still have had a question about it, this finally and fully puts the lie to the false allegation that NATO or "de-Nazification" have anything to do with the Russian invasion and occupation of Ukraine.
Trolling, taunting, spamming, and off topic comments may be removed at the discretion of group mods. NT members that vote up their own comments, repeat comments, or continue to disrupt the conversation risk having all of their comments deleted. Please remember to quote the person(s) to whom you are replying to preserve continuity of this seed. Any use of the phrase "Trump Derangement Syndrome" or the TDS acronym in a comment will be deleted.
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
Reading Russian President Vladimir Putin's mind is rarely a straightforward task, but on occasion the Kremlin leader makes it easy.
Such was the case on Thursday, when Putin met with a group of young Russian entrepreneurs. Anyone looking for clues as to what Putin's endgame for Ukraine might be should read the transcript, helpfully released here in English.
Putin's words speak for themselves: What he is aiming for in Ukraine is the restoration of Russia as an imperial power.
Many observers quickly picked up on one of Putin's more provocative lines, in which he compared himself to Peter the Great, Russia's modernizing tsar and the founder of St. Petersburg -- Putin's own birthplace -- who came to power in the late 17th century.
"Peter the Great waged the Great Northern War for 21 years," a relaxed and apparently self-satisfied Putin said. "On the face of it, he was at war with Sweden taking something away from it... He was not taking away anything, he was returning. This is how it was."
It didn't matter that European countries didn't recognize Peter the Great's seizure of territory by force, Putin added.
"When he founded the new capital, none of the European countries recognized this territory as part of Russia; everyone recognized it as part of Sweden," Putin said. "However, from time immemorial, the Slavs lived there along with the Finno-Ugric peoples, and this territory was under Russia's control. The same is true of the western direction, Narva and his first campaigns. Why would he go there? He was returning and reinforcing, that is what he was doing."
Alluding directly to his own invasion of Ukraine, Putin added: "Clearly, it fell to our lot to return and reinforce as well."
Those remarks were swiftly condemned by Ukrainians, who saw them as a naked admission of Putin's imperial ambitions.
"Putin's confession of land seizures and comparing himself with Peter the Great prove: there was no 'conflict,' only the country's bloody seizure under contrived pretexts of people's genocide," Ukrainian presidential adviser Mykhailo Podolyak said on Twitter. "We should not talk about 'saving [Russia's] face,' but about its immediate de-imperialization."
There's a lot to unpack here, in terms of both history and current affairs. Podolyak was alluding to talk in international capitals about offering Putin a face-saving way to de-escalate or halt the fighting in Ukraine. French President Emmanuel Macron has led that charge, saying last weekend that the world "must not humiliate Russia" in the search for a diplomatic resolution.
Those arguments may have seemed more reasonable before February 24. In the run-up to the invasion, Putin laid out a series of grievances to make the case for war, from NATO's eastward expansion to Western delivery of military assistance to Ukraine.
But read the transcript of Putin's remarks on Thursday more closely, and the facade of rational geopolitical bargaining falls away.
"In order to claim some kind of leadership -- I am not even talking about global leadership, I mean leadership in any area -- any country, any people, any ethnic group should ensure their sovereignty," Putin said. "Because there is no in-between, no intermediate state: either a country is sovereign, or it is a colony, no matter what the colonies are called."
In other words, there are two categories of state: The sovereign and the conquered. In Putin's imperial view, Ukraine should fall into the latter category.
Putin has long argued that Ukrainians do not have a legitimate national identity and that their state is, essentially, a puppet of the West. In other words, he thinks Ukrainians have no agency and are a subject people.
By summoning the memory of Peter the Great, it also becomes clear that Putin's aims are driven by some sense of historical destiny. And Putin's project of imperial restoration could -- in theory -- extend to other territories that once belonged to the Russian Empire or the Soviet Union, something that should raise alarms in all the countries that emerged from the collapse of the USSR.
Earlier this week, a deputy from the pro-Kremlin United Russia party submitted a draft law to the State Duma, Russia's lower house of parliament, abolishing a Soviet resolution recognizing the independence of Lithuania. Lithuania may now be a NATO member and part of the European Union, but in Putin's Russia, that kind of neo-colonial posturing is the surest display of loyalty to the president.
And that does not bode well for Russia's future. If there is no reckoning with Russia's imperial past -- whether in Soviet or tsarist guise -- there is less chance that a Russia without Putin would abandon a pattern of subjugating its neighbors, or become a more democratic state.
Former US national security adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski famously asserted that Russia could only part ways with its imperial habits if it were willing to surrender its claims to Ukraine.
"It cannot be stressed strongly enough that without Ukraine, Russia ceases to be an empire, but with Ukraine suborned and then subordinated, Russia automatically becomes an empire," he wrote in 1994.
Putin, however, is counting on something of the opposite: For Russia to survive, he argues, it must remain an empire, regardless of the human cost.
Tags
Who is online
648 visitors
And for the glorification of Putin.
he's coasting down the exit ramp. I don't expect him to see the new year, one way or another...
Do you think someone will take him out? I'm not sure of that.
recent intelligence reports suggest he is extremely paranoid and that there's been at least one assassination attempt already. he's been purging gov't officials, military leaders, and there's a growing list of the russian elite that have disappeared, committed suicide, or had fatal accidents. given the past century of russian political history, my mind is open to every possibility.
It's unlikely that Putin will be removed from power any time soon. However, despite the layers of security protecting him, he is not totally immune to a palace coup.
Hedge that bet. Voted you up anyway.
Thanks, bbl-1!
He's destroying and bankrupting Russia, and especially hurting the Russian people. The human cost is becoming to great to continue much longer
That is true, which is why he is not totally immune from being overthrown.
So, who will replace Vladimir Putin? It's difficult to believe that Putin has been the only obstacle preventing Russia from becoming a western democracy.
And if Russia does become a western democracy then what will be the purpose of NATO? Who will replace Russia as the unifying threat to Europe? Seems like the United States has a vested interest in preventing Russia from becoming a western democracy.
I agree. His comment deserves that.
That is, of course, unknown at this point. It is just as likely to be another power craving dictator wannabe as it is to be democratically-inclined individual. Maybe more likely.
No credible authority has said he is.
That is a typical anti-American trope.
consider the source...
I see. So, we just wait to see what happens. And we only wait to respond instead of preparing to achieve a desired outcome. Do we even know what a desired outcome would be?
How is the possibility of Russia becoming a western democracy an anti-American trope? Hasn't Russia becoming a western democracy been the objective?
The Russian threat has been used to unify Europe. The Russian threat has allowed the United States to maintain influence in Europe. What happens if that threat is removed? What happens if everyone gets what they wish for?
Your ideas are terrible. Good thing you have no say regarding our foreign policy.
It's not and I clearly did not say it is. You are attempting to fraudulently misconstrue my comment undoubtedly because I called you out on your blatant anti-American propaganda.
I can see no further reason to engage with you. You are no longer welcome on this seed.
There is no possibility of a system that pre-determines the outcome of every
election in every "Russian Federation" could ever be a "western democracy".
And anyone who doesn't see that is blinded by some kind of bias.
You sound like Fucker Carlson.
Do you belong to the pro-Putin wing of the fucking Retrumplican Party?
They're not my ideas; they're your ideas that conform to the policy approach of the United States.
Pointing out the lack of planning and the unworkable response to the Russian invasion is not anti-American. Recognizing the incompetence of American leadership is not anti-American. The war in Ukraine has become a war of attrition. Ukraine cannot win a war of attrition so the United States has become mired in a long protracted war. The United States is not fighting in that war; the United States is using Ukraine as a proxy.
The fighting may stop but that won't end the war. Ukraine has been partitioned just as Korea was partitioned. We're looking at decades of conflict and confrontation between the United States and Russia over Ukraine.
Communist China and Soviet Russia supported North Korea and directly fought in the Korean war. But North Korea was not annexed. North Korea is an independent state that aggressively defends its own sovereignty.
Another fraudulent comment by you.
More fraudulent misdirection by you when the statement from you I commented on was:
Again, you are NOT welcome to come on to this seed and prevaricate and post fraudulent comments.
I came onto this seed with a straightforward question. Who will replace Vladimir Putin?
Isn't the purpose of what the United States has done intended to address a threat? So, what happens if that threat is removed? What happens if the United States wins?
Does the United States gain more from peace? Or does the United States gain more from war? Either the United States has a vested interest in Russia becoming a western democracy or the United States has a vested interest in Russia remaining as it is.
Your schtick is getting really old. The US did not start this war. The US is not winning or losing. Your repeated attempts at making all of this the fault of the US are just making your comments sound sad and pathetic.
Put the blame where it belongs for once, or are you even capable of doing that....
Are you a Russian bot or just a Russian asset (like Donald Trump)?
Putin compares himself to Peter the Great and his end game is to renew the Russian empire. That could of course include current NATO countries and some, at the moment neutral countries.
Russia has always been and still is a colonizer nation.
This is a link to a good article on it.
He's always had the extreme Russian colonizing mindset but now
who knows what the anti cancer drugs are doing to his mind in his last few months/years.
Everything in Russia is now illegal unless it involves kissing Putin's ass.
Excellent link, Kavika. Thank you for posting it.
Putin is the new Russian Tsar, butt he is no "Peter the Great".
"Putin the Mediocre" can't even conquer Ukraine.
Putin will die from "cancer" soon because of his incompetence.
With Putin gone maybe the Russians can break Navalny out of prison and elect him.
That would be poetic justice.
Putin's Russia is sunsetting.
The real thing that should be debated is why are there so many Americans, in government and in the private sector, preferring the Putin Regime remains in power.
Could it be that the 'new people' in charge in order to return Russia back into normalcy, may release decades of documents that will be embarrassing or criminal in nature to some politcal figures, corporations and private individuals?
I don't see it that way.
As long as Putin is conscious and cogent, he has their nuclear football
and that deserves a certain amount of respect and trepidation.
Russia will never be returned back to any sort of normalcy,
they have never been "normal".
I disagree. The quantity you are forgetting are the Russian people.
Putin's nuclear football? No way the military, Duma or Politiburo will sacrifice their pensions, families, freinds and nation for Putin. He is not worth it.
Then you are believing in the better angels who have not been in evidence
for 105 years.
I like that.
The better angels exist. The younger generations of Russians have seen and heard much. They have seen better, they know better, they want better and they deserve better..
And this is why I believe Ukraine is the key to acheive that end.
Look at the Russian succession of power line from Gorbachev; and then what will most likely follow Putin.
We fucked Gorbachev over; and have watched Russian slide ever further back into Soviet style leaders. What our government is afraid of is the person that replaces Putin might have a military brain and adopt western military tactics. No more WWI Russian ground and pound. No more incompetent supply chains; and slogging around in campaigns they should easily win.
Those getting warm fuzzies about Russia becoming a pro Western country if Putin falls haven't studied Russian history.
You are forgetting or dismissing the American 'Cold Warriors' that used Russia as a cash cow for the MIC. You are correct. America screwed Gorbachev. That error is ours.
I disagree with some of your premise. But overall, you are correct.
I will add this too. My words. My quote. "Those who can not abandon the prejudices of the past can not envision a future without them."
Word is that SPIEF 2022 will be a bust as the oligarchs won't be spending freely on lavish parties
and favors to Putin and are limiting their exposure and many are trying to avoid attending
the usual Putin closing speech.
‘Party Like a Russian’ Turns Toxic at Putin’s Flagship Forum - Bloomberg