Republicans are trying to defund public libraries in addition to book bans - Vox
By: Fabiola Cineas (Vox)
"Libraries bolster democracy. Republicans want to get rid of them."
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S E E D E D C O N T E N T
When Missouri's House voted in late March to approve a state budget that would eliminate $4.5 million in funding for public libraries, local and national free speech advocates went into panic mode.
The Missouri Senate later restored the funding to the budget proposal in April. But full funding for the state's libraries is still not guaranteed and librarians and patrons are concerned that libraries across the state are still under attack and subject to the whims of Republican lawmakers.
Nor is the threat unique to Missouri. While threats to defund or eliminate public libraries are still relatively uncommon, they're on the rise. Lawmakers in Llano County, Texas, weighed closing public libraries this spring instead of following a court order to return banned books to the shelves. They finally backed down after community members protested. Last fall, voters in Michigan rejected funding for the Patmos Library in Jamestown Charter Township after librarians refused to ban the book Gender Queer: A Memoir, a graphic novel about the author's journey with gender identity. Other states, including Louisiana, Iowa, Indiana, and Tennessee, have seen similar challenges to libraries.
In Missouri, the state's spending proposals are now before the legislature's joint committee, where negotiations have reached an impasse ahead of Friday's budget deadline.
"Having free access to information is important in a democracy, so it has frightened a lot of people that our state would want to make that more difficult," said Otter Bowman, the president of the Missouri Library Association and a staffer at the Daniel Boone Regional Library in Columbia, Missouri. "It's disturbing that the House's decision to defund our libraries has become this political message. It discounts the needs of library patrons all over the state. It's a real concern that they took so lightly."
And as fights over banning books or removing them from shelves continue, libraries could be an increasing target of lawmakers' displeasure. Experts monitoring Republican efforts to shut down public libraries told Vox that the threat is often the last step in a series of escalations. Usually, lawmakers start with book bans. If the bans aren't as effective as they'd hope, they escalate to threatening to defund local libraries. The threats tend to occur in states where lawmakers want to restrict health care for trans people, limit drag performances and curb how teachers discuss gender, sexuality, race, and history at school.
"This is part of a larger campaign that we call the 'ed scare,' which is a broad effort to heighten intimidation and anxiety around what can and cannot be taught and discussed in public spaces," said Kasey Meehan, the director of the Freedom to Read project at PEN America. "These growing campaigns want to suppress certain ideas and content areas, so the defunding of libraries, book bans, the educational gag orders that affect higher education and K-12, and even anti-drag show legislation are all connected. They're mechanisms in a larger campaign to control what is and isn't allowed in public spaces."
What's behind the push to defund libraries
All eyes were on Missouri last month when the Republican-controlled House voted to withhold $4.5 million in funding from the state's nearly $50 billion budget.
The decision was in response to a lawsuit filed by the American Civil Liberties Union, on behalf of the Missouri Association of School Librarians and the Missouri Library Association, which challenges a state law passed last year that bans "explicit sexual material" from schools. According to the lawsuit, the law violates students' First Amendment rights. Under the law, images in school materials that could be considered sexually explicit, like depictions of genitals, are prohibited. Librarians and other school officials who violate the law by allowing students to have access to the material would be charged with a misdemeanor and risk a $2,000 fine or up to a year in jail.
After the law took effect in August 2022, district officials ordered librarians and other school employees to remove hundreds of books from school libraries, including Kurt Vonnegut's Slaughterhouse-Five and Margaret Atwood's The Handmaid's Tale, many of which were authored by or had content related to people of color and/or the LGBTQ community.
In what is seen as retaliation to the ACLU's lawsuit, House Republicans voted to strip library funding. At a budget meeting in March, Missouri state Rep. Cody Smith, the House budget committee chair who proposed cutting the funding, singled out the ACLU lawsuit, stating, "I don't think we should subsidize the attempts to overturn laws that we also created," according to PBS.
According to the ACLU, the lawsuit filed in March is not paid for with library funding from the state. "The house budget committee's choice to retaliate against two private, volunteer-led organizations by punishing the patrons of Missouri's public libraries is abhorrent," the organization said in a statement. "As with every case when the ACLU represents someone, we are not charging our clients to challenge the unconstitutional book ban the legislature passed last year."
Librarians and patrons in Missouri were quick to point out how harmful even the threat of defunding libraries is. "At first I was in disbelief and then my blood ran cold because I thought of the terrible impact this would have, particularly on smaller libraries, but for everyone across the board. It would have a chilling effect," Bowman told Vox.
Missouri has 160 library districts, which split the state's library funding. "The percentage of state funding in each district's overall budget is much greater for rural libraries because they have smaller tax bases and don't have as much coming in from other sources, when compared to urban districts in Missouri," said Bowman. "Plus, they get matching funds from the federal government. If there is no state aid to match, then they don't get federal funds. So they'd be penalized twice." Any decrease in funding could also increase the already high turnover rate for library employees due to lower wages and force some locations to close on some days or run on limited capacity.
Advocates are using the moment to argue for the purpose of libraries.
"I think a lot of people who don't understand the value of libraries haven't been in one for a long time. It's a lot more than just a place to check out books," Bowman said. Libraries are a community hub where people can get assistance with a variety of services, including help with taxes during tax season, and computer and internet services.
Libraries host job fairs and provide job application assistance. The library also provides meeting rooms, study rooms, and in many cases serves as a heating and cooling center, and offers restrooms, for people who are unhoused. Traditional library services that the state could lose include literacy services for kids like summer reading programs and story time events. "We are a real lifeline for a lot of people," Bowman said.
According to data from the Missouri Secretary of State, at least 4.4 million Missourians have access to public library services, including wireless hotspots for checkout, notary services, faxing and printing, early literacy programs, homework assistance, and access to services designed for veterans and job seekers. To support all of these services, the state has consistently allocated more than $3.5 million each fiscal year since 2020.
Last month wasn't the first time Missouri Republicans sought to restrict public libraries. Last fall, the House introduced a rule requiring public libraries to certify that they have policies to restrict "obscene" materials or face funding cuts. The lawmakers continue to insist that the purpose of the legislation is to give parents the power to control what their children access at libraries.
Librarians say that Republican concerns are unfounded. According to Bowman, most libraries already have policies in place to prevent sexually explicit materials from being a part of their collections, particularly when it comes to children's sections. There are also already systems in place that allow the public to challenge books.
"It's like there's some sort of disconnect somewhere along the political spectrum, where people don't understand the effect that they're having on people's lives," said Bowman. "They're pandering to a particular base that may or may not understand how libraries work. They're making these sweeping decisions that make it difficult for people to live their lives."
Ultimately, any measure to defund libraries could be deemed unlawful since Missouri's constitution says the state must see to "the establishment and development of free public libraries and to accept the obligation of their support by the state and its subdivisions and municipalities in such manner as may be provided by law."
Where does the fight against libraries end?
Attacks on libraries and their employees have only grown in the past few years and aren't slowing down. Last month, county commissioners in Llano County, Texas, decided to eliminate a proposal to defund the county's three libraries in response to a ruling from a federal judge who ordered banned books be returned to the shelves.
In St. Tammany Parish, Louisiana, the St. Tammany Library Control Board recently voted to keep five challenged books on the shelves of the town's libraries after months of disputes over titles including, I Am Jazz, a picture book about a transgender child, and Toni Morrison's classic The Bluest Eye.
US Rep. Clay Higgins of Louisiana recently advocated for libraries to be replaced with "church-owned" alternatives. "Over time, American communities will build beautiful, church owned public-access libraries. I'm going to help these churches get funding," he tweeted. "We will change the whole public library paradigm. The libraries regular Americans recall are gone. They've become liberal grooming centers."
In Jamestown, Michigan, last year, residents voted against passing a millage which would have raised property taxes to fund the Patmos Public Library. The library had refused to remove titles with LGBTQ themes and without a new millage, the library is set to close sometime in mid-2024.
Last year, a library in Vinton, Iowa, temporarily closed its doors after most staff quit due to threats against LGBTQ employees. Residents in the town complained that the library didn't have "quality" material on former President Donald Trump and that LGBTQ books were on display. Similarly, controversy erupted in Flathead County, Montana, at the ImagineIf library over two books with LGBTQ themes.
In Indiana, the Hamilton East Public Library's board of trustees recently ordered a $300,000 review of the library's books, forcing the library to almost empty its "Teen Zone" section as librarians reviewed hundreds of titles to make sure they were "age appropriate" according to the board's definition.
Residents in Ada County, Idaho, recently tried to dissolve the local library system, though commissioners ultimately decided to not put the question of dissolving the library on the ballot.
In March, the Sumner County Library Board in Tennessee voted to fire a library director after accusations of "unkind treatment" toward evangelist Kirk Cameron at a conservative library event.
All of these incidents involve disputes over what Republicans deem inappropriate for children, though libraries usually have safeguards in place, according to Meehan. "The books being removed do not match any colloquial or legal definition of obscenity or porn or pornography," Meehan said. "The rhetoric these lawmakers are using to describe these books is being deployed to alarm constituents and suggest that there is material in schools and libraries that is objectionable. These efforts undercut our democratic ideals."
And in most of these cases, it was a local and international outpouring of support for libraries that pressured lawmakers to change course. "We're seeing more 'ed scare' legislation at the state level and new ways that districts are changing book policies locally. But, at the same time, there's a collective voice that's growing and pushing back against the idea that these books are bad, harmful, pornographic, and obscene," said Meehan. "The more we challenge those ideas, eventually, I hope it grows stronger than the campaign to suppress."
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"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."
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I'm proud of you. You got through a totally meaningless rant and you didn't say "Brownshirts" once... /s
"Churh-owned libraries"????
Most churches have a library already. Keep your religion out of my public library.
This smacks of Christian Dominionism
It is full-on Christian Dominionism.
WWJD?
I think he would probably slap these right wing idiots silly.
... a waste of trees.
checking off one more box for their nazi merit badges...
A sad commentary on the state of our union.
It is a very sad commentary. There is a local school board election in Texas today where conservatives and liberals are uniting to attempt to defeat Christian nationalist who are trying to take over and subvert the educational system.
christo-fascists had better have a stockpile of buckets and mops ...
No need. They have guns. Lots of guns.
meh, those are just hard tickets for their future geezus meet and greet...
Hypocrites. They say they believe in free speech. They say they care about the freedom to make individual choices. They say they care about American traditions. Then they turn around and try to control what other people read, who they love, and how they live.
The hypocrisy is what we expect from them, and they never disappoint.
they've obviously hit their heads too many times while performing the mental acrobatics that defy logic.
You can't force people to vote against their own self interests no matter how fucking hard you try.
Democrats want to turn public libraries into their own personal indoctrination centers; just like public schools. They can do it w/o conservative tax payer money.
Start up go fund me accounts like they did to keep the Patmos Library open. Just don't expect voters to change their minds.
How is a book you aren’t interested in reading - but others might be - related to your self-interest?
How can it be indoctrination when no one is forced to read the book?
It's not.
It's not.
You responded, appropriately, to reactionary propaganda. It's nothing more than that.
I’ve read books and watched movies about lots of deranged people. Shockingly, I did not end up wanting to be like any of them. Good thing I didn’t read a gender memoir or I would have ended up running straight to the doctor to have him cut off my penis. Your logic is beyond stupid.
Promoting public libraries is a way of promoting the cultural level of the ordinary American. The wealthy have their own libraries, so they see no use for public libraries. Perhaps worse - the wealthy prefer that we proletarians be unaware of the existence of culture.
I'm fascinated by the psychology of the censor. They have a sense of self-importance that bears no relation to any recognizable competence. Jane Doe deciding that she knows better than others... for no demonstrable reason.
Such monstrous egomania.
A dozen books by one author and twenty more by another author have been removed from high school library in FL because one women said they were pornographic...
sigh
Hope they removed the bible as well. That book has tons of sex, violence, pedophilia, slavery, and other nasty things in it.
their entire religion is based upon a family of incestuous pedophiles...
An ignorant uneducated populace is an easily controlled populace. Thomas Jefferson
Exactly, there is a correlation between our civic decline and our educational decline.
So... let's get rid of public libraries...
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Your empathy is staggering.
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Ding ding ding - bullseye.
I fought this fight before and here we are doing it again. All they end up doing is highlighting the perfect reading list to create more free thinkers - I didn't particularly care for Catcher in the Rye, but it did have an impact. Then again I did enjoy Slaughter House Five.
I don't normally give money for political issues, but I have and will donate to any group looking to directly purchase books for young adults.
Sherman Alexie's book ''The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian''
was banned in Neb along with The Kite Runner, The Undefeated, The Color Purple to name a few others.
We had a problem kid in our class and somewhere around middle school age (we didn't have an actual middle school) the kid got worse and was expelled. The school had to retrieve a few library books from his home and the principle, guidance councilor and one of the art teachers decided in their infinite wisdom that these books on witchcraft they got back should be banned from the library. But of course they didn't want to limit it to those few books, but tried to jump on the Christian Banning List of Horrible No Good Awful Books.
That didn't turn out so well for them. First it turns out this kid was the only person to ever check those particular books out in something like 15 years. Second, the librarian said if they so much as removed one book through censorship she'd quit. Third, when the student body found out 3/4 of the school threatened to walk out until every book was returned. Win one for the students! Our guidance councilor ended up quitting and started selling property casualty insurance.
EDIT: Years later I was dating an 18 year old in her last year of HS (I was 21) and her school was going through the whole book banning process too. I had my wisdom teeth pulled one morning and in the evening attended the local meeting with my gf where the school presented their case and the outcry from the public (mostly the students) drowned them out so thoroughly they had to abandon that plan too.
I would much rather see all public libraries defined and see the money that is allocated to them to be used for law enforcement and public safety.
Great idea. We're really gonna need lots more cops when a whole generation of kids are denied the resources to get into college and have to turn to drug gangs to make money.
Maybe they will attack the college administrators that have jacked up tuition so high.
The right wingers have no good ideas.
I would much rather see all public libraries defined and see the money that is allocated to them to be used for law enforcement and public safety.
Congratulations on the most unintelligent and ironic comment in NT history.
More stupid people...more prisoners for the Prison Industrial Complex
I mean seriously, what the fuck???????????????????????/
There’s a good plan. An illiterate and ignorant populace reigned in like the animals they will become by an ever-growing and violent police force. There you are, America!: The wacko-conservative vision of the future.
lovely
Did you actually engage your brain when you said that? Defund public libraries?????
What the hell?
Whining about defunding libraries is sort of like whining about removing hitching posts in the town square or cutting the number of lamplighters on government payrolls.
Undoubtedly, you feel the same way about child labor laws.
Welcome to the new reactionary reality.
The irony here is astronomical.
Comment 10.1.1 is so devoid of meaning it's creating negative space.
You do realize that public libraries is not just about the books, right? Many libraries offer other services. Of course it's all there in the article....
No, I don't believe Jack knows about this...
He should. I think he's a math teacher or was
I admit something probably has to be up for a Texas H.S. coach to be the world's leading expert on LGTBQ issues, and drag queens! Though, I'd be surprised if he ever attended one Drag Queen Story Hour...
Because he knows nothing about them!
What?
Do you seriously expect our Usual Suspects to READ the seed? They read the headline... and not very carefully.
Yes, I do. They all consider themselves very intelligent and vastly superior to the likes of you and me, Bob
They're so intelligent that they don't need to be informed.
I wouldnt worry about the accuracy of that belief.
Oh...but I'm reminded every day of what a low life piece of shit I am and how dumb because I'm a Democrat!
They certainly believe it!
They also believe that any woman that enjoys sexual intercourse and does not want to be pregnant are sluts and deserve the "punishment" of an unwanted pregnancy and an unwanted child.
this is true...until it's their own daughter
That's a perfect example.
So basically you have a list of things that are all done online or would be better done online, and "a place to study".
I didn't go to "stripper study hall" either, but I'm not crazy enough to think it's appropriate.
There is absolutely no defense of "Sexual Fetish Hour with Kids" that any sane person would defend. The only people who do attempt to defend it have political tribalism problems on a mental illness level.
Libraries are the secular social and intellectual hubs of communities across America bringing continuing education to everyone from kids to senior citizens. We might as well defund public schools too! Right? Who needs classrooms and studyhalls when kids can be homeschooled online? It is not like kids today need socialization!
This sick one are antisocial throwbacks who are so far gone they do not know jack!
Because of that, I can't take you seriously.
At the same time most of those same people fetishize young women as sexual objects.
Yes, they do.
Oy!
Are you serious? I dont know about small town libraries, but big city libraries provide information and sources online on a vast scale.
I have a Chicago Public Library card. With it I can access, online -
the content of hundreds of newspapers, magazines, trade journals, and videos, including those that have paywalls otherwise. I can look at the New York Times and Washington Post etc every day, for free.
i have free access to the huge GALE REFERENCE LIBRARY, which contains encyclopedias, dozens of reference books not otherwise available for free on the internet, an entire subsection on literary sources, and a biography section that also gives daily access to dozens of newspapers, magazines and journals
i can "check out" e books and audio books, including best sellers, for free. there is also a separate service , Hoopla, that not only provides e books and audio books , for free , but also television shows and movies.
the library offers both the world book encyclopedia and the funk and wagnalis encyclopedia for free
also, access to issues of local papers such as the tribune and sun times going back over 100 years
i'm sure there is more that is not coming to mind at the moment, but having a library card these days means a lot more than just going to the brick and mortar and checking out books.
And they need money to provide all that
I forgot to mention Facts On File, a huge resource for information that is also available for free with a library card
You’re against public libraries now?
I'm recognizing and acknowledging their obsolescence as brick and mortar establishments in the mobile digital age.
Kinda like oil street lamps.
They used to be everywhere. And if you had predicted in 1900 that no major city in America would have a single dollar allocated to lamplighters, some people would have wailed and moaned about the importance of lighting streets and night, because they were unable to imagine how much better the new methods would be. In their minds, the only choices were lamplighters or darkness.
Public library use has been plummeting for years. It's time to reconsider the mission and bring methods into the mobile age.
Call me old fashioned but I love going to the library, searching the stacks for that one book I won't be able to put down. I spent a lot of time in high school library. It was the one place I could go and I would be at peace.
I go every three weeks and take out 3 to 4 books. I love books.
I have a Kindle but I use it for playing Candy Crush. I like the feel of a real book in my hands
The only time I use my Kindle is when I play games, watch videos or read at night while hubby is sleeping (don't have to turn on the light). I prefer to have a "real" book in my hands, turning real pages and the smell of the book itself.
I wouldn't call you old fashioned, but you are definitely in a dwindling minority.
And you guys that like that sort of thing still have used book shops you can go to.
Public libraries have always been about getting information into the widest swathe of people possible. The best way to do that is no longer with stacks of books.
I live in a small town we don't have a used book store.
"Libraries were full of ideas – perhaps the most dangerous and powerful of all weapons." ~Sarah J. Moss
Perhaps the impetus for the imbecilic, self-defeating, short-sighted rhetoric.
the louder they are, the longer it's been since they've been inside one...
Your needs are not everyone else’s needs. You may not have a reason to go to a library, but many people do. My family still gets use out of our local library. They are not obsolete.
Less and less all the time. There are far fewer used book shops now than there were a few years ago.
Here is an interesting study that shows a very different view of our public libraries.
Our local public library (a branch of the main library) is quite busy with numerous group meeting, wi fi access digital books etc.
Even though I read books on my phone, I still prefer turning pages.
That's why I go to the library. My hubby and I have come to an agreement. I have so many bookshelves full I can only buy certain authors. All others I go to the library to borrow.
My ancient Mom attends functions for seniors and reads to kids at her rural library every week. It is especially busy on weekends, during thr Summer and during other school breaks. Libraries provide important social activities for all ages...
When I retire I want to volunteer at the library. I would like to be assigned to shelving books but that probably won't last long...I will be reading those books I'm supposed to shelve
Our community just built a brand new library that also houses the senior center and children's community center. The library is a hub of activity. Nice to know how some people want to close them because they don't use them.
Very cool.
Going digital in a big way
The report from 1992 to 2019 also found that library collections are bigger and more digital than ever before — with over 58 percent of book selections now being available online. Overall, library collections are now bigger and more diverse than ever, growing by 113 percent since 2009.
A decade ago, physical books , magazines, newspapers, and video or audio tapes accounted for 98 percent of the material you would find in a library. By 2019, however, that number stands at just 45 percent as libraries convert more and more items to a digital format. Ebooks now make up a third of the typical library’s collection, with paper books falling to about 40 percent of what’s on the shelf.
What do they do there that could not be done digitally for less money?
Ah. So we're confirming falling demand for stacks of paper.
So naturally, the best course of action is for local municipalities already strapped for cash to spend more money on inefficient things that fewer people want.
Odd that people who claim to read so many books should be so completely devoid of imagination.
Or... the senior center is a hub of activity and the library just happens to be in the same building.
No, it has to do with the economics of small independent book stores vs. Amazon and Covid.
"Amazon purchases now account for more than half of all book sales"
.
*facepalm*
So wait... you mean people would rather order a book than go to a physical location and stand around among stacks of paper?
Amazon is convenient and not pricey. But nothing beats wandering the stacks and enjoying the ambience. The only sense that is not used in a library is taste. But hearing, touching, seeing, and smelling are all engaged
Lend out paper books for free? You know, the simple basic thing libraries have always done. If you prefer reading books digitally, you go right ahead. You don’t speak for everyone.
By the way, not everything that’s been printed is available on Amazon. They might have you convinced that they’re the ultimate source, but they are truthfully far from it.
Libraries are fantastic venues for research projects. In my experience, they can be a lot more efficient than just Googling stuff. I’ve gotten a lot of work done in libraries.
They’re also places of community. They host group reading, story telling, gaming, art, tutoring, and on and on.
They can be very useful for legal, medical, housing, and government information.
If you’re mystified by the utility of libraries, but hermit-like googling and internet chat isn’t illuminating you, maybe try actually visiting one and find out some of the things they do there.
Since you don't live there I guess you would have no clue, right???
I did a lot of research when I was in high school and college. Well...back in them days there was no internet but I always found what I was looking for. It was hard work but all worth it
The internet is a useful tool - no question. But there is still a lot of stuff that just isn’t available that way. Not everything gets digitized. Even if basic information (records, history, etc.) is all someone is after, the internet is the beginning of research, not the end.
Purchasing books has nothing to do with the benefits of free access to books provided by public libraries. Therefore, the premise for your entire argument is irrelevant.
There are a number of older sci-fi books I've been looking for that are no longer in print. Even the two local used book stores have closed. My only avenue is hunting through local libraries.
very true
A service for which demand has been steadily dropping for years.
Not at all. They used to house scrolls that you could not remove.
Yet you are demanding we spend everyone's money.
Please cite me making such a claim.
How long ago was that? And do you imagine that will still be the case as we move toward Ai cataloging of information? At what point do we start to think about modernization and efficiency?
For whom, exactly? The data would seem to indicate that most libraries are failing to connect with the majority of people in their communities.
At what point do we acknowledge that a different type of thinking is required?
Well, Jack, I do use our local library, and the link posted above shows a much different result than what you are supporting and that link is a review of over 17,000 libraries.
As far as the local book store, they have been devasted by Amazon but I would direct you to the one big chain that has survived and is prospering and that is Barnes and Noble and we have one right here in Ocala, FL.
I buy from them and of course, my favorite is another privately owned bookstore that has many specialty books and hosts forums/discussions etc. Birchbark Books in Minneapolis and I pay a bit more but it's well worth it to me since the owner is a best-selling author along with being a Pulitzer Prize winner for fiction with her blockbuster book, ''The Night Watchman''. Whenever I'm in Minneapolis I stop by just to browse and chat with Louise Erdrich. IMO, there is so much more to books/libraries than a bunch of paper. One has to appreciate the feel of the book and the atmosphere and conversations that can take place in either a bookstore or a public library.
She has written a complete series of childrens books but they will probably be banned by the right wing zelots because they may have mentioned race.
Two of my favorites that she has written in addition to The Night Watchman are The Round House and The Last Report on the Miracles at Little No Horse.
They still do.
This is a dumb argument. Not everybody drives on the freeway, but we spend everyone’s money on it. We do that for a million things. That’s how civilization works.
Even if you never go to a library, you benefit from it by living in a society where others go to the library. There, they get excited about reading and learning. They expand their minds, whether young or old. They gain knowledge and ideas they wouldn’t have elsewhere. They then channel this personal growth into all of society.
So, if you find yourself dealing with someone who isn’t an illiterate, unimaginative imbecile, consider thanking a library.
I was responding to this from you:
If you don’t like the way I respond to it, you are free to clarify your intent. But don’t play pedantic, trolling games with me like “please cite . . . Blah blah blah.”
That’s ongoing. Not everything is available online.
It’s worth repeating. Not everything is available online.
We already are. Libraries have many digital resources. They have for a long time. But sometimes the old ways are still the best. You’d think a conservative would appreciate that.
I often walk into a library and discuss my current project with the librarian, who points me toward multiple avenues of research via sources available in the library. I find it far more efficient than the internet in many cases.
Interesting statistics. What about the other statistics? Increasing crime? Declining test scores? The general feeling that the younger generation is too isolated, and doesn’t know shit about shit? Maybe instead of just cataloging the declining use of libraries, we should be encouraging their use. Hmm?
hang out closer to the bonfire at the next trump rally...
Speaking of "dumb arguments".....
Not everybody drives on freeways, but everybody buys something that was transported on one. For EVERY service that EVERY entity provides, public or private, we adjust based on demand and need. Libraries should not be exempt just because a handful of bookworms like the nostalgia.
Except they're not going. That's the problem. What we're doing there isn't working.
I'm not sure how the term "digitally" is confusing to somebody on an internet forum. I'm also not sure how we came to a place where "digital" = "Amazon".
We're already seeing public libraries offer digital content, we have university libraries offering online access, we have state law libraries online, as well as thousands of other research and informational content.
That doesn't even mention the information revolution we're beginning to experience with ai.
Maybe you should endeavor to respond to what I actually write, and ask for clarification if you don't understand.
What is in a standard local branch library that isn't already available online or could not be easily put online?
Maybe if our libraries were relevant places to be we'd have less of that.
You do hit on a larger point here, which is that libraries are not the only places struggling with obsolescence. Our public schools still operate like it's 1970.
The fascinating thing we're ignoring here is that you don't need to encourage people to do things they actually find helpful in a modern, relevant sense.
It's not like we needed a campaign to get people to go to YouTube to find a video series on how to grow roses or whatever else it is they need to learn to do. Duolingo has over half a billion users.
I'm trying to think of anything else where we would see a 30% or more decline in use of something and not think it needed an overhaul.
Church?
Anyway, “overhaul” is a different conversation. I’m all for improving libraries. But this whole thread has been based on your advocacy for defunding libraries. If that’s a shift, then I’m glad you begin to see the value of libraries.
Exactly. Some churches have rebuilt themselves and are thriving. Others have not and will expire. But we're not spending ever increasing amounts of public money to prolong the death spiral.
We may be differing over vocabulary or semantics or whatever.
I look at brick-and-mortar libraries kinda like I looked at the typing pool in 1995. WTF are we still doing with these outdated, expensive things that only a handful of outdated people use?
I see public libraries as entities that have failed in their mission, although not nearly as badly as public schools have failed in theirs. (The two are obviously related.) Moreover, they cannot hope to achieve that mission while still shackled to 1930.
So when we talk about funding public libraries, that's like mulling over whether or not we want to put $50k more into repairs of our fleet of 1983 K-Cars or spend that money on a new, different kind of vehicle that meets current needs. No, I don't want to increase funding for the current thing. I want to actively start the process of getting rid of the current things and transitioning to a new, better, cheaper, more efficient, more powerful thing.
I beg to differ. the tax exempt status some of those right wing madrasas enjoy is a treasury shortfall shared by all tax payers.
and arguing for the goddamned fucking sake of arguing and lastworditis, it's a common condition among the TDS afflicted
As usual -
I realize it is difficult for leftists to understand, but "money you allow the citizens to keep" is not the same thing as "expenditures".
I realize it is difficult for rwnj's to understand, but radical religion is a business.
The principle reason for having libraries is two-fold. The first reason is to be repositories and access points to knowledge. The second and often forgotten falls in the curation of this knowledge also known as library science or the purveyors of such: librarians.
The internet or worldwide web or whatever else one wishes to call this dominion has no expressed filters. People obviously have differing levels of critical skills, and as such some have difficulty parsing out truth from fiction, factual from specious argumentation, and the just strange from the outright untrue.
As well as these, there are other functions that the libraries provide that are mentioned elsewhere in this seed. To throw away the funding for libraries and thus libraries in general is, IMO, short sighted and patently reactionary.
At best. It is also profoundly anti-democratic.
which is why it's so popular with the radical right...
the indefensible defending the indefensible who are defending the indefensible into infinity FFS
Apparently anything liberal/progressive/Democratic is frowned upon by certain people and should be abolished.
You use lots and lots and lots of words to say absolutely nothing worthwhile.
it's like asking somebody for the time and them telling you how to build a clock instead ...
I've been going to the local library's used book shops for years, great books in good condition for one or two dollars.
I buy books at the library book sale and then turn them back in for resale.
There's simply no more space on the shelves in my home library.
Same.
my great aunt was a librarian at CU and she left her entire estate to the college for the purchase of rare books.
A good friend of my parents was a librarian at an elementary school. She took me to work with her one day when she was prepping for the start of school. I had a great time that day (I was only 6, I think)
One of my favorite people at our high school was Mrs. Keatinge, the librarian. She was a true asset for our school. All of these decades later, my friends and I still remember how great she was.
My wife's aunt was a librarian at the University of Minnesota Duluth. She's retired now and for a long time both her aunt and uncle were volunteers at the local public library.
Mine was Peggy Lipinsky (I think that was her name). I adored her. I joined Library Club when I was a senior and couldn't wait to do my duty. There were 3 of us that worked the library at that time and we were supposed to "help" people and shelve books. I wasn't a social sort so I "shelved" books. I was really bad at it because I never got them all shelved because I wanted to read what I was putting away and then I would get distracted at what was on the shelves. Mrs P would scold me about how slow I was and that I was supposed to put them on the shelves not take them off. It was always a gentle scold because she knew how much I liked to read and that was precious to her.
I was a library rat in High School. I took a number of Independent Studies and did most of that work in the library. If I wasn't in a classroom during school hours I was in the library. I even instructed the librarian on how to use the new copy machine. I pretty much volunteered to work in the library as often as I could. Checking books in/out and putting them away. For a long time she would suggest books for me to read until somewhere in my sophomore year she started asking me for suggestion on new books to stock.
“…that was precious to her.”
I think we all have similarly fond memories. To take that away is beyond reason…try to name a single school; elementary, middle school, high school, college; rural, urban, small or large that does not have a library as the cultural, educational, and social center of their campus. It is actually the best city, state or federal money spent. A bargain by any metric.
Absolutely. Very well said.
no doubt.
I practically grew up in the library - spent a lot of my summers there
when I was a kid the local library screened free movies on saturday afternoons.
a full length cartoon, a serial cliff hanger, and a kid focused movie. the local theater would also credit 1 admission for every $5 mom spent on the grocery store receipt. they were all old hollywood movies, but nobody cared. the concession stand would end up absorbing everybody's allowance and chore money for the week.
There is nothing more American than a public lending library.
Lending Library – Benjamin Franklin Historical Society (benjamin-franklin-history.org)
I suppose that the Republicans also want to defund and close the Library of Congress.
there is nothing more unamerican than the oppression against any form of a higher education.
... which explains why trumpsters want to defund them.
look at the morons they vote for...
There was an article in our local paper this morning about a church group attempting to have books they consider "smutty" banned from their library.
Meddling old biddies. If they think it's smutty, they can either not read it, or read it and hide it under their beds. Stop trying to keep everyone else from reading it.
that church is a wood structure isn't it? 'nuff said...