House speaker mansplains what Thomas Jefferson really meant by church and state separation
By: Carl Gibson
I urge anyone that wants to learn about the media messages that ultra religious/nationalist extremists are providing to mentally defective americans, to search salem, townhall, or alliance defending freedom online. this is yet another small right wing minority group that thinks that only they know what's best for everyone and should run the US.
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
During a recent interview, House Speaker Mike Johnson (R-LA) suggested that the founders' intent to separate church and state has been widely misunderstood and that government leaders should more openly express their faith in their work.
NBC News reported Tuesday that Johnson called the separation of church and state — which Thomas Jefferson called for in a letter to church leaders — a "misnomer." He added that the phrase wasn't in the U.S. Constitution, even though the First Amendment's establishment clause is widely interpreted as the founders' belief that the government should be seen as separate from any religious institution.
"What [Jefferson] was explaining is they did not want the government to encroach upon the church — not that they didn't want principles of faith to have influence on our public life," Johnson said on CNBC's Squawk Box. "It's exactly the opposite."
"[The founders] knew that it would be important to maintain our system," Rep. Johnson continued. "And that's why I think we need more of that — not an establishment of any national religion — but we need everybody's vibrant expression of faith because it's such an important part of who we are as a nation."
In his 1802 letter to the Danbury Baptist Association, however, President Jefferson alluded specifically to the First Amendment, saying he had "sovereign reverence" for the establishment clause that effectively built "a wall of separation between Church & State."
"I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights," Jefferson wrote.
Johnson's argument also contradicts fourth US President James Madison, who once wrote a comprehensive argument against government endorsement of religion in a 1785 document dubbed "Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments." According to the Center for American Progress, Madison wrote this in response to proposed legislation in Virginia dubbed "establishing a provision for Teachers of the Christian Religion."
"Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other Religions, may establish with the same ease any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other Sects?" Madison wrote.
Prior to being elected to Congress in 2016, Johnson was an attorney for the Alliance Defense Fund (now the Alliance Defending Freedom), and frequently argued for increased religious presence in public schools.
"The Bible is and should be an appropriate course of study in our public schools," Johnson wrote in a 2007 op-ed. "Because it is the most widely read, widely published, most influential book in all of history, censoring it from the classroom is as unwise as it is unnecessary."
In 2019, Johnson posted a statement to his official Congressional website blasting Democrats for omitting the phrase "so help me God" while swearing in witnesses before a committee hearing. He suggested the omission was an intentional gambit of "cultural Marxism" and that removing references to God "traces back to communist ideology.
Trolling, taunting, spamming, and off topic comments may be removed at the discretion of group mods. NT members that vote up their own comments, repeat comments, or continue to disrupt the conversation risk having all of their comments deleted. Please remember to quote the person(s) to whom you are replying to preserve continuity of this seed. Any use of the phrase "Trump Derangement Syndrome" or the TDS acronym in a comment will be deleted. Any use of the term "Brandon", or any variation thereof, when referring to President Biden, will be deleted.
Article is LOCKED by author/seeder
Tags
Who is online
40 visitors
I don't think I need to remind thumpers that their demigod trump has previously made threats against political opponents acceptable, and that he's free from personal responsibility or accountability if someone acts upon them.
super xtian, maga mike johnson endorses trump yesterday. let that blatant xtian hypocrisy sink in.
I wonder if a sound beating would convince him otherwise. Let him, or any of his ilk, show the validity of their claim of righteousness.
How can anybody claim to be a Christian and a Trump supporter at the same time?
Trump is the epitome of evil.
These freakshows (check out some freakshow dominionist named Garlow that Johnson has a relationship with and who also has endorsed the former 'president'). This freakshow Garlow believes that God put the former 'president' in office and they want to keep him there. They also believe Biden and Harris are satan and the anti-christ. I think they are living in the world of PD&D+delusion like the majority of the cult of the former 'president'
sounds like f'n dominionists fell off each of those 7 mountains and landed on their heads...
My stomach was turning as I was reading about the association between these freaks and how these freaks want to take over the world.
[✘]
[✘]
Pretty sure that Jefferson was warning us about Trump, Johnson, MTG, Boebert, etc, etc, etc.
could be, but no worries, the constitution provides americans a permanent solution to christo-fascism.
[✘]
He is living in a parallel universe.
"God has given us a miracle in the election of Congressman Michael Johnson to this position. He's a godly man, raised up for such a time as this," [Paster Dutch] Sheets said in his Oct. 27 " Give Him 15 " daily prayer broadcast. "I do not know him, but have several friends who do, who attest to his qualifications, integrity and heart for the Lord."
Sheets is a leading figure among a faction of once-fringe Christian evangelical and Pentecostal leaders affiliated with the New Apostolic Reformation, or NAR, an ideology that has existed for decades on the fringes of the religious right.
NAR apostles and prophets, as NAR leaders often refer to themselves, ultimately want to end or weaken the separation of church and state. Many embrace a concept known as "the Seven Mountains mandate" which says Christians have a duty to God to take control of the seven pillars of society: business, education, entertainment, family, government, media and religion.
The speaker has affiliated himself with some of Sheets' ideological allies in the NAR movement, including Pastor Jim Garlow. He hosts regular World Prayer Network livestreams in which Johnson has been a frequent guest. In an Aug. 9 broadcast, Garlow said Johnson "ranks up there in the top 1 percentile" in Congress and has "worked with us very closely."
Johnson, in turn, praised Garlow. "I'm so grateful for the ministry and your faithfulness. It's a great encouragement to me and others who are serving in these sometimes rocky corners of the Lord's vineyard."
only a matter of time before a past child molestation victim of his turns up. even money on preteen genders, so far...
I was thinking a closet full of dead hookers or something but that sounds more likely. What scum.
If history is any clue, both you and Dev are both right
His stepford wife is some kind of 'christian counselor' and nuttier than a fruitcake, like him
[Deleted]
Wow, I have to say that is something I have never thought about.
It’s funny were some minds go.
Far right wingers do seem to have a whole bunch of walk-in closets in their past/present.
Fuck their hypocrisy.
anti-religion is what the AR on your rifle stands for now...
she's probably the reason he was on a religious crusade bender to close that strip club in shreveport. he probably rescued her from one when she was a college co-ed.
The AR designation stands for Armalite Rifle. The company that invented it back in the 1950s.
So glad that mine is much newer and fault free.
Hit a 10" disc at 125 yards rapid fire most every shot.
Scares the hell out of the deer and they tend to leave my fruit tree orchard alone.
Check out this freak's relationship with another freakshow, another whackjob christian dominionist named Garlow.
He would be one of the first in line to complain about the 1619 Project as being "fake history", and then he goes and creates some fake history of his own.
Christian Nationalism is not a figment of liberals imagination, it is a real movement that wants the US to be ruled entirely by religious (Christian) precepts.
... over my dead body.
Mine, too.
[Deleted]
Mine three!
[Deleted]
Perhaps two friends…
[Deleted]
Has anybody here noticed that whenever a country is run by religious leaders as a theocracy they are always shitholes"?
not for the self proclaimed self righteous...
Why, yes! I have noticed that! The theocrats don't believe in science and the only the technology they embrace is that which they can use to control the masses. Forget vaccines and real medical treatment. Those will be replaced by prayers and faith healing.
And a hefty donation to the church of their choice!
Yep, every (without exception) theocratic nation sucks shit. All they ever lead in is human rights abuses, and poverty.
No matter the religion.
Yeah, it seems like all religions consider themselves to be superior to all other religions. They're all wrong.
Can you say prayers and Bible readings in public schools?
They sure did back in my day! Didn't take.
The First Amendment has two provisions concerning religion: the Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause. The Establishment clause prohibits the government from "establishing" a religion . The precise definition of "establishment" is unclear. Historically, it meant prohibiting state-sponsored churches, such as the Church of England.
Today, what constitutes an "establishment of religion" is often governed under the three-part test set forth by the U.S. Supreme Court in Lemon v. Kurtzman, 403 U.S. 602 (1971). Under the "Lemon" test, government can assist religion only if (1) the primary purpose of the assistance is secular, (2) the assistance must neither promote nor inhibit religion, and (3) there is no excessive entanglement between church and state .
The Free Exercise Clause protects citizens' right to practice their religion as they please , so long as the practice does not run afoul of a "public morals" or a "compelling" governmental interest. For instance, in Prince v. Massachusetts, 321 U.S. 158 (1944), the Supreme Court held that a state could force the inoculation of children whose parents would not allow such action for religious reasons. The Court held that the state had an overriding interest in protecting public health and safety.
Sometimes the Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause come into conflict. The federal courts help to resolve such conflicts, with the Supreme Court being the ultimate arbiter.
[✘]
[✘]
[✘]
[Deleted]
[Deleted]
[Deleted]
Does your link refer to, specifically, what Thomas Jefferson wrote about the separation of church and state ? Cause that is the topic.
[✘]
[Deleted]
[Deleted]
[Deleted]
No, actually the topic is Mike Johnson’s interpretation and few comments (that remain un-deleted) directly address that. I mistakenly thought that the courts interpretation might be of some use to those that actually care about the topic.
The seeded article is clearly referring to the Founding Fathers interpretation.
People who want to diverge from the topic are always possibly subject to deletion. You win some you lose some.
“During a recent interview, House Speaker Mike Johnson (R-LA) suggested that the founders' intent to separate church and state has been widely misunderstood and that government leaders should more openly express their faith in their work.”
[deleted]
Why? Are they being elected to overturn the US government from a secular government into their brand of theocracy?
What would make their goals anything different from the Ayatollah in Iran?
Hey darlin, fascism is fascism no matter what direction it comes from.
[✘]
Not by me, I a lifelong atheist.
From the little bit I just read of Johnson's history, he appears to be a run of the mill religious zealot. Therefore, he likely has never bothered to acquaint himself with Jefferson's life and Jefferson's editing of the Bible which eliminated the miracles and make Jesus a human preacher/teacher.
Jefferson had to deal with condemnation by religious zealots like Johnson. Is there really any doubt what Jefferson meant by separation of church and state if a person actually reads about Jefferson's words and actions?
Who, in today's world, wants to overthrow the US secular government and turn it into a theocracy? What would they gain? What would we lose?
The care that Jefferson took in crafting his Bible is interesting.
Seems divinity has always been the question.
[✘]
The Christian God (or any god for that matter) could easily settle this eternal argument once and for all by simply showing us it exists. Don’t hold your breath. It. Does. Not. Exist.
But the con artists who created the gods did exist and unfortunately the con man who can still successfully peddle their brand of bullshit still do exist.
If the Armageddon crowd had enough power, they would be advocating to use nukes to bring back their Savior for their get out of dying card known as the "rapture".
Some religious belief systems are a threat to human existence.
Who is arguing?