7 Forces Driving America Toward Civil War
I was interviewed by a mainstream media reporter yesterday. I thought he wanted to talk tech issues, but we actually spent almost the entire conversation discussing the feeling that many conservatives have that America has gone off the tracks and is headed toward dissolution or alternately, a civil war one day. Obviously, this would be a terrible thing and ironically, twenty years ago, it would have been laughable. Today, the joke isn’t so funny because we are a deeply unhealthy society with a dysfunctional government and for all our money, success and storied history, we seem to be on an increasingly dangerous trajectory.
1) A Post-Constitutional Era: Liberals don’t believe in the Constitution. Typically they deny this, but that’s exactly what a “living” Constitution means. You make it up as you go along. The Founders foresaw the instability and danger that would be created by this approach, which is why they wanted us to be a constitutional republic, not a democracy. Unfortunately, America has in many ways already become a post-constitutional democracy and we’re one liberal judge away from abandoning the Constitution altogether. Once we get to that point, America just becomes the representation of that old saying, “Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to have for dinner.” Of course people are not lambs and when large numbers of them believe they aren’t being treated fairly, they do have the option of getting away from the wolves.
2) Tribalism: The “you only have to listen to people you already agree with” nature of social media has dramatically ramped up the level of tribalism in the United States. The Right has gotten much more tribal since Donald Trump rose to prominence and the Left has taken tribalism into hyper-drive. Increasingly, liberals treat a range of opinion between Elizabeth Warren and Hillary Clinton as legitimate while everyone else is viewed as a white supremacist Nazi primitive that must be driven down into the gutter for society to move forward. This makes any sort of dialogue or cooperation nearly impossible. When every issue is a zero sum war where one tribe must win or lose, a lot of people quite understandably ask, “What do we gain by staying allied to this other tribe?”
3) Federal Government Too Powerful: Federalism is a safety valve on the American pressure cooker. As long as people in San Francisco can, for the most part, live the way they want to live while the people in rural North Carolina can, for the most part, live the way they want to live, it’s much easier for everyone to get along. When people are unnecessarily forced to live under rules they find abhorrent because the federal government has become an octopus that has inserted its tentacles into every minute crevice of American life, it creates discontent on a wide scale. If most Americans wanted to live like people in San Francisco, they’d live in San Francisco.
4) Moral Decline: As Samuel Adams once noted, “A general dissolution of principles and manners will more surely overthrow the liberties of America than the whole force of the common enemy. While the people are virtuous they cannot be subdued; but when once they lose their virtue then will be ready to surrender their liberties to the first external or internal invader.”
A large number of Americans HAVE LOST their principles, manners and virtue and it shows through from the sort of politicians they elect, to their rudeness online, to the sort of shallow hedonism and fame whoring they find appealing. Americans are increasingly becoming a soft and decadent people which is problematic because the challenges may change, but we can be certain that Americans will face future challenges every bit as difficult as the ones past generations had to tackle. This is frightening because if you look at the “principles, manners and virtue” of Americans today, they don’t seem capable of dealing with monumental events like the War of 1812, the Civil War, the Depression or World War II. Most people in their twenties probably couldn’t tell you why all those events were such challenges in the first place. When America faces a challenge bigger than we can handle because of ineffective politicians and our “amusing ourselves to death” population, there are no guarantees our republic will survive.
5) The Debt: America is a freight train heading toward a cliff, but because we’re not moving toward the edge at lightning speed, no one seems all that concerned. However, the fact of the matter is that a reckoning is coming. At some point, probably within the next decade or two, we will face a debt-driven economic collapse; borrowed money will stop flowing into the United States and Medicare/Social Security as we know it will fall apart because we will not have the money to pay it. If and when we get to that point, all bets are off because if regions of the country see an advantage to splitting off from the United States at that point, they will do it.
6) Lack Of A Shared Culture: There has never been a time when American culture was more fragmented than it is today. By that, I mean that there are legions of people with millions of fans or followers on the Internet that the vast majority of Americans have never heard of in their lives. We don’t have that shared love of anybody or for that matter, anything. Conservatives and liberals disagree on economics (capitalist/socialist), religion (friendly to Christianity/hostile to Christianity), the Constitution (support/believe in a living Constitution i.e. no Constitution), etc., on and on. The average conservative and the average liberal disagree on 95% of the issues and in the few limited cases where they do look at things the same, they won’t support a proposal by the other out of sheer tribalism. Over the long haul, there has be something more to hold a country together than, “We wear Nikes, like pop music and play golf.”
7) Gun Grabbing: Liberals have fallen in love with the idea of ignoring the 2nd Amendment and confiscating all firearms. The logistics of doing this in a nation with hundreds of millions of guns (many of which are off the books) when many police departments and tens of millions of Americans would not cooperate is seldom discussed. Another thing that seldom seems brought up is that large numbers of conservatives would see this as a prelude to the government’s use of force against the citizenry. When it is discussed on the Left, there seems to be an assumption that lone resisters might get into firefights with dozens of police or soldiers, as opposed to ganging up with other formerly law-abiding Americans to waylay gun confiscators, politicians and anti-gun activists at THEIR HOMES in guerrilla actions that would be silently applauded and supported by hundreds of millions of Americans concerned about their freedom. Confiscating guns is a dangerous and stupid idea that could in and of itself end our republic if a serious attempt were ever made to implement it. https://townhall.com/columnists/johnhawkins/2018/04/21/draft-n2473193
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1. A Post-Constitutional Era: Conservatism does not believe in The Constitution. In their eyes The Constitution is dead as soon as it has delivered a ruling oligarch class.
2. Tribalism: "I can shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and not lose a single vote." DJT Tariffs and taxes: "The farmers will take the hit because they're patriots." DJT
3. Federal Government Is Too Powerful: Conservatism desires to neuter the people's government, replacing it with an elite clique of oligarchs. This is why Citizens United is so important to so few.
Heartland, You have started two of these threads about starting a civil war in the past month and in both threads your claims are laughable. The only people mentioning civil war are the TEAparty conservatives if they don't get their way and are permitted to ignore the freedoms of the US Constitution.
Conservatism, especially right wing conservatism, can only flourish in chaos and disorder.
This is why conservatives wrap the cross in a flag and worship the gun.
1) A Post-Constitutional Era: Bullshit. Liberals protect the constitution because it supports and protects the minority from the tyranny of a majority.
2) Tribalism: "everyone else is viewed as a white supremacist Nazi primitive". If you don't believe in freedom and equality for all, even the Muslims and gays and minorities, then you're a piece of shit who doesn't deserve the protections afforded you by the constitution.
3) Federal Government Too Powerful: People can live the way they want from San Francisco to South Carolina, no one is stopping that. The problems arise when bigots think they can discriminate just because they want to but their rights stop where others rights begin. You can hate gays and liberals all you want at home, but if you think you can own a public business and discriminate against tax paying law abiding citizens just because you believe that's what an invisible unproven wizard in the sky wants, then you can go back to stroking your ego and white skin at home.
4) Moral Decline: When morality is only defined by prejudiced religious bigots it's no better than living in a pointless barbaric theocracy.
5) The Debt: We know who is dragging us down into financial ruin, and it's not the blue States.
6) Lack Of A Shared Culture: AKA "If you don't believe in Christ, you're not one of us!". Fuck this kind of bullshit division, we are all Americans whether we believe in God, Allah, Vishnu or no God at all. Conservatives and liberals agree on 95% of the issues that matter, safe schools, access to untainted food, health care, jobs, affordable housing. It's only conservatives who claim there isn't enough to share so they demand a right to discriminate and often do so along cultural, religious and racial lines.
7) Gun Grabbing: No one is grabbing your flaccid little guns you fucking morons. All any liberal or progressive has really suggested is sensible gun safety legislation. But conservatives fantasize about starting a 2nd civil war and they don't think they can win without their AR-15 arsenals and large capacity magazines. Sure, they'd get their asses kicked faster than mosquito flaps its wings, but they are determined to whine and complain that their 2nd amendment rights are being stepped on if they can't have their piss ant assault rifles for "protection".
The long and short of the above article is it's ridiculous, blatantly lies and fabricates erroneous opinions about liberals that have never, and will never, be true.
Bravo! Well said and 100% correct! Funny how it's really the liberals who are the real protectors of the Constitution when the right wing always claims to be. However, much like they are cafeteria like with what they pick and choose to believe in the bible and their religion, they are cafeteria like Constitution-lists also. They pick and choose the parts they like and ignore the parts that give people they don't like because of their political positions or religion (or rejection of it) or race or color, etc., the same rights as them.
Thanks for explaining it all for the alt-righties...
Liberals oppose freedom of speech by shutting down speakers they don't want to hear. They don't care at all about FISA court abuses, illegally spying on political opposition, whether private property owners can have trespassers removed, etc... The left absolutely embraces the idea of gun confiscation and it's coming from even retired liberal SCOTUS judges. The identity politics and projection of racism and obsession of skin color is all on your side. Liberals are so wrapped in their own hate they've gone into massive denial about it.
SOME liberals do that, not all and I think the ones who do need to stop being such assholes.
Show me the abuses, and BTW apparently neither do conservative republicans since they voted almost unanimously to reauthorize the current setup recently.
Who did that?
Depends on exactly what you are talking about.
Generalizations are always wrong BTW.
Give me a fucking break, both sides do it.
Applies just as equally to conservatives.
You are another person who doesn't understand what freedom of speech means. A person does not have the right not to be disagreed with. Those students have the same speech rights as the speaker does. I would rather they have a civil disagreement but his free speech rights were not in any way violated by being heckled.
Nobody on the left is trying to divide the US into factions and special interest groups. You should stop projecting.
I wouldn't say that is true. I would say no real progressives are though.
I had never heard of anyone talking about a new civil war except for conservatives. The supposed alt-left does not exist, except in the minds of conservatives as a way to legitimize their partnership with the Alt-right. Bernie never mentioned it because it would go against anti-war progressive ideas.
The Antifa is a direct response to the alt-right and they will go away as soon as their right disappears.
Aren't you the one wanting to separate part of California in to some..........jefferson....BS? Yep. So WHO is wanting to divide the USA again? Trump and GWB are/were the most divisive presidents in this nations history.
Wrong. Heckling and shouting down at private events are NOT protected speech. People can protest outside an event all they want but inside they have to follow basic rules of civility or they can and should be ejected.
good thing that applies to both sides since the conservative minded are not innocent either and have shut down speech as well - research Whittier College to start with. All of these articles blaming solely one side are dishonest at best but i expect nothing less from a deck of victim cards.
Stop the Fox News hyperbole!
The only reason why the Antifa (anti-fascism) exist to fight back against the alt-right groups such as Neo-Nazis the Klan and white supremacists. They have no agenda other than to prevent the alt-right from trampling the rights of people they oppose.
If you think that the Alt-right represent the views of most conservatives then I can only suggest that you take a hard look at your beliefs because fascism is not supported by the masses. Is white supremacy, slavery, genocide and domestic terrorism now part of the GOP and TEAparty platform?
A person has no free speech rights on private property that they do not own because the landowner decides what is acceptable. The only exception to this is rental properties where the SCOTUS has sided with the renter over the absolute views of the owner.
If you go to a private school or college you can be expelled for speech that is not supported by the Dean or Board of Regents. You can obviously be fired at work for similar speech.
Exactly what I was saying.
Heckled Rodney Dangerfield from the front row center table once. He slayed me! It was fun!
So then, what's the problem with antifa caving their heads in when the opportunity arises?
1.) There is nothing socialist about the Antifa because socialism refers to an economic policy of the workers owning the means of production. The Klan and the Nazis aren't leftists because the Antifa tend to be lefties. If the Klan and Neo-Nazis were lefties then the Antifa and the alt-right would be cooperating, which obviously isn't happening.
2.) The Antifa only exist to attack Neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and the Klan. They have adopted the Neo-Nazis own violent tactics to use against them. If the Antifa are a legitimate threat to you I can only tell you to stop being a fascist or stop supporting fascists.
BTW, Did you take my political compass quiz yet? I can't wait to see where you rate on the graph.
I'm sure thumpers will be greeted as liberators. /s A fascist regime like the one in the white house will most likely be the gun grabbers. I'll happily surrender my registered gun to them when they come to my door. They can have my unregistered guns before they reach the sidewalk. Bring it, christo-fascists, and thanks for pointing out exactly just how pointless POW camps for the teavangelical taliban will be in that civil war fantasy.
There was a saying in the sixties: What if they had a war and no one came.
I believe yours may well fall into this category.
You really seem to be the only one with a boner for a civil war HA. I don't hear anyone other than you babbling about it.
I can see It now. All the looney toonies lined up on one side carrying signs, wearing hats and screaming. On the other side the Alt right emerges with holstered guns and some drawn for battle. I wonder who would scramble like rats to the nearest sewer before the government came and retrived them? Take them to safe places and house them in FEMA trailers where they will receive psychological care all at the governments expense.
I can't keep up with all the civil war articles. Take a break and join us on katrix's sandwich article. What's your favorite ?
I did. N.O. po boy roast beef.
I tend to agree that we are probably headed toward some sort of mayhem in this country. Especially if Trump gets impeached or imprisoned over his bidness kook criminality. Things just might get real interesting.
Trump supporters have come down solidly on the side of Nazis, racists, misogynists, anti intellectuals, authoritarians and predatory capitalists. They are none too smart and basically cultists in the Cult of Dumpf. They are armed up seriously and if their fearless leader tells them it is Christian and right to shoot folks it is my guess that a number will. Hell's Bells and Peanut Shells. If Trump told them that baby bar b q's were the Christian and Patriotic thing to do there'd be Baby Bar B Q's every weekend.
These folks are not conservatives. I live in the boonies and have been involved in the shooting community pretty much since I was knee high to a goat. Been around and argued with conservatives most of my life.
Other than disagreement with them on most things I have nothing against em. They are just a bit stodgy and uncomfortable with change. My old school conservative friends are as concerned as the rest of us as to where this slide toward fascism is taking us.
These new Republicans and Trump worshipers are not the same animal at all.
It is why I tell all my Liberal friends to give up this inane and insane obsession with The Bill of Rights, an inanimate object and, basic human right as the genesis for our propensity to commit brutal acts against one another. It is intellectually superficial and might just get your ass kilt in days to come.
Remember what Stokley Carmichael said?
Me, I'm working on getting farther back, higher up and into an area where there are more critters than humans.
Even though I generally try to follow your published lunacy, I somehow managed to miss this piece of total lunacy.
Though most of the commentary is complete, I have to get my views in here. Let's start with the obvious:
a. the only ones that are calling for civil war are those on the far, far right.
b. the thought of a civil war is antiethical to American values in the 21st century
c. the entire premise of your article is designed to make people enraged.....the reality is that it enraging the other side.
Now, let's talk about your individual points:
1. A Post Constitutional Era: You discussion of the Constitution being a document that is rigid and perfect is a concept that comes from those who see the bible as the single, unerring word of their god that cannot be changed or argued with under penalty of death. It is an absurdist notion in response to the bible and it is an even more absurdist notion when you speak about the Constitution. The founders saw the Constitution as a living, amendable document. Otherwise the original document would not have been allowed to be amended. Your view is narrow and wrong. The Constitution has been changed in every generation since the founders wrote it. Maybe if you guys on the far right stayed awake in American History 1 in 9th grade, you would understand our nation's history.
2. Tribalism: Where the left embraces the notion of American diversity and the American melting pot, it is the right who wants to place people into tribes, and in many places throughout this nation forces those tribes to exist on both sides. Hatred leads to tribalism and the hatred of Blacks, Browns, Jews, Muslims, and anyone who isn't part of the White Christian tribe leads to a nation of tribes. Try accepting those who are different from you into the halls of your country clubs, your executive offices, your churches, your private schools, and you will see how quickly the tribalism ends.
3. Federal Government Being Too Powerful: There is a reason for federalism. When individual states make their own decisions, there is an increased possibility that decisions made at a state level could well be unconstitutional or act to benefit smaller interest groups versus the population at large. Federal oversight of education, infrastructure, housing, employment practices, health care availability, etc. is absolutely necessary to maintain the republic. There is almost no doubt that issues like the separation of church and state would definitely become an issue.
4. Moral Decline: To discuss the moral decline of this nation now is a joke to every individual who did not support this immoral government we have in power. We have the most unethical majority leader of the senate in history who refused to allow a legally nominated potential supreme court justice to come to floor of the senate for a vote and then changed the rules for allowing a SCOTUS nominee to more easily be nominated. That was a moral disgrace. We have a house of representatives that will investigate hangnails if they belong to democrats while serious malfeasance {e.g. Nunes} is ignored. We have a president who has 19 women accusing him of sexual malfeasance, a playboy bunny about to tell all about her longtime affair, a porn-star who is locked in a legal battle with the president, and a president himself who bragged about grabbing women by the crotch and walking into rooms with naked teen age girls because he could. Match that with the morality of candidates who preach morality and then violate it at every turn, and I would highly recommend that you eliminate "moral decline" as one of your talking points against the left.
5. Debt: Every study by every reputable and non-partisan economic group, including the CBO has indicated that every republican administration has done more to increase the debt than every democratic administration. Republicans push up the debt and don't count it in the budget. They then allow the unaccounted for debt show up later in the national debt and claim that it wasn't their fault. Massive fail.
6. Lack Of A Shared Culture: The only ones who are lacking a shared culture with other Americans are the radical right and Christian Dominionists. For the rest of us, the culture of America is united. A free country, equal opportunity, freedom of or from religion, freedom to live where we want, upward mobility, patriotism, etc. We don't all have to be Fundamentalist Christians to share a country's culture. We don't have to be white to share a county's culture. We don't have to be landowners to share a country's culture. What your vision of culture is, certainly isn't America's.
7. Gun Grabbing: Who the hell has grabbed your guns? All 90% of Americans want are sensible gun laws and regulations that aren't determined by the NRA. Should certain weapons be banned for private ownership? Absolutely! 75% of Americans agree. Should Americans be allowed to own a tank? Absolutely not! 98% of Americans agree. They also agree that all gun owners should undergo background checks for ALL purchases. They also believe that people with felony convictions for violent crimes should not own guns, nor should people with either mental health problems, or spousal or child abuse convictions. The only ones who disagree are those on the radical right and the NRA. Nobody has taken your guns away.
You people are the ones who are seeking civil war. That is sedition. To call yourselves patriots is an insult.