O’Rourke on haunting photo: ‘Trump is responsible for these deaths’
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O’Rourke on haunting photo: ‘Trump is responsible for these deaths’
By David Siders, Politico 8 hours ago
O'Rourke responded to an Associated Press image of a drowned man and girl that was ricocheting around the internet.Beto O’Rourke on Tuesday blamed President Donald Trump directly for the deaths of a father and daughter who were found earlier this week along a bank of the Rio Grande.
“Trump is responsible for these deaths,” O’Rourke wrote on social media , sharing an Associated Press story and the image of drowned man and girl that was ricocheting around the internet.
“As his administration refuses to follow our laws — preventing refugees from presenting themselves for asylum at our ports of entry — they cause families to cross between ports, ensuring greater suffering and death,” O’Rourke wrote. “At the expense of our humanity, not to the benefit of our safety.”
O’Rourke, a former congressman from the border city of El Paso in West Texas, has long criticized Trump for immigration policies he has said are inhumane. The presidential candidate said on ABC’s “The View“ in May that existing barriers “contribute to death and suffering” by forcing immigrants to cross in more remote areas of the U.S.-Mexico border.
But O’Rourke’s rebuke of Trump on Tuesday was especially stark — as was the brutality of the incident he was addressing.
The man found with his daughter face down in the Rio Grande was from El Salvador and had become frustrated that his family could not request asylum at the United States border, according to the Associated Press , which was citing journalist Julia Le Duc’s reporting for La Jornada, a Mexican newspaper.
The two were caught in the current of the river instead.
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Trump forced them both to try and cross the border illegally violating our laws.
TDDS is an epidemic that has no cure. Those inflicted wouldn't take treatment even if there was one.
so do you blame obama for the migrant deaths along the border when he was President?
Which where a lot higher count than Trump's have been.
Similar to how they don't care about the black kids killed in inner city warfare. But when a black criminal gets killed attacking a cop, it's a national crises to be used against Republicans.
They exploit whoever is politically handy
Try looking at your own seed.
Do your own work, but of course you never do.
Are you not capable of following your own sources, dear? Guess not.
This tragedy wouldn't have happened if the man had gone directly to the US Embassy in San Salvador and legally requested asylum. Blaming Trump for the deaths of illegal aliens who make stupid choices and who deliberately put their children's lives in danger is ridiculous.
True, but it was also legal - according to our own laws - to apply at our borders. The problem is that there are so many people seeking asylum that we just can't handle them all. And desperate people will do desperate things.
They weren't at a legal point of entry. According to the AP article ...
Mr. Ramirez traveled with his family thousands of miles when he could have gone to the US Embassy in San Salvador to legally request asylum. If he didn't want to do that, he could have done the same in Guatemala at our embassy there.
I wasn't aware about the embassy option. I'd probably think I'd have a better shot at the border than at an embassy if I were in that situation. Because once they touch American soil, legal or not, don't we have to consider their asylum request at least? Isn't that what all the Cubans did? Not that most of these people understand our immigration and asylum laws in detail anyway.
Every US Embassy is considered US soil
He tried to do things legally but our Fracked up immigration policy screwed his hope of saving his young family.
He risked death for a chance at the American dream and lost. We turned our backs on he and his families plight.
Don't wast money on a stupid vanity wall project for Trump, spend money on facilities & judges to help speed up processing the massive backlog of asylum clams. Spend money on trying to lower the deadly violence and crippling poverty that the asylum seekers are risking life and limb to flee from.
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A grim border drownin....
Rescue.org
El Salvador
Exactly, Vic. That's why the US State Dept advises US citizens to register with our embassies in foreign countries when we travel abroad.
Castro shut down our US embassy in Havana for many years.
Yes Sir
While your lengthy missive addresses several irrelevant issues, it doesn't address the fact that foreign nationals who seek asylum in the USA can register for said asylum at the US embassies in their own countries.
As they flee their native country they can stop the people pursuing them long enough to swing by the local embassy, expect to be seen immediately, and to receive a decision immediately? Is that what you're saying?
Most asylum seekers are fleeing for their lives, you really think they will pause to apply at the embassy then hang around until the decision is made???
No one coming here from Central America is being pursued across nations by gangs or anyone else
The inconvenient truth that has been documented for decades is that illegal aliens of all races and ethnicities from many countries throughout the world pay thousands of dollars to nefarious people to transport them to the US southern border instead of choosing to legally entering our country through legal ports of entry as tens of millions of legal immigrants have done.
Who is pursuing them?
We've seen migrant caravans making their way through the entirety of Mexico without ever being chased.
The point is that most of these people don't actually meet the criteria necessary to qualify for asylum. Their home country may be dangerous, but that's not enough. Frankly most of their home countries are less dangerous than South Chicago on a Saturday night.
Now...as I've said....I think we should be letting far more of these folks in than we do. But that's going to require a change in the law.
How should I know? Ask them.
Then you haven't been paying attention. Even Trump claims that the caravans have been attacked, robbed, and the women raped enroute. Or did you forget he stated that?
No, that is a meaningless point. You don't know they don't qualify until they make the claim and see a judge.
In your opinion. Asylum laws say otherwise.
Frankly, your use of a strawman argument is embarrassing.
You should reread what you wrote because that is NOT what you just said.
I just think the discussion is headed away from facts and in the direction of drama.
The likelihood of people without 2 nickels to rub together are being "chased" from their home country in the absence of religious or ethnic cleansing is remote at best.
Further, we seem to have already established that stopping by an embassy would not enable them to apply for asylum, so the idea that "they would have applied for asylum but they were being chased across 2000 miles of wilderness" is just emotional drama.
Hmmm.... So you are attempting to tell us that unknown persons are pursuing these penniless migrants across 2000 miles. I'm not sure that's plausible enough to be a Jean Claude Van Damme movie
Oh...so we're going with Donald Trump as the arbiter of truth now? When did that happen? Did I miss a meeting?
I'm sure it seems meaningless if you've never actually met refugees.
Do cite that law for us.
Maybe you could throttle your emotions a bit and read more carefully.
We cannot continue to allow vast numbers of people into the country with no plan. We need a plan. That plan would include spreading these people out so they don't all settle in Texas, Arizona and California. It would include documenting them, helping them with temporary housing, relocation, employment, and generally all the things one needs to do to get up and running in a new place. It would NOT include giving them lots of free shit because our feelings have run amok and awww don't they look sad.
The problem we have, and the problem we see every day of our lives in Texas, is that the US Govt does not have any sort of adequate systems for ingesting large numbers of impoverished immigrants.
Many liberals (especially young ones) are outraged by the conditions at the border, simply because they're awareness is new and they don't realize how bad it's been for decades. But this is not a new problem. It's not even a Trump problem, particularly. Trump is just following his normal M.O. of being a large dickhead about a problem until something gets done.
The fight over asylum exists because there the US Govt has ignored anything to do with illegal immigration since Reagan addressed it in the 1980s.
So you are making the claim that there is no violence in South American countries? Dude, you've crossed the line so far in trying to justify your claims that you've fallen off the adjoining cliff.
If you truly believe it, please provide links showing a lack of violence against civilians from all South American countries.
Apparently you missed a meeting and several years worth of news.
It has already been posted multiple times, don't be lazy look up the law for yourself if you want to prove me wrong. The fact that you never offer ANY EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER, shows that you argue trying to pass your opinion as fact.
WHAT??!!!!????!!??!!!
Too bad Republicans refuse to make a plan. Remember when Obama asked them for one? Then when they refused to, he put forth an executive order to try and make a plan? Then because Republicans didn't want an immigration plan, they sued him to remove his plan and still refuse to put one of their own up?
You are now trying to compare to entirely different things. People are outraged because children have been taken from their family, tortured and locked in cages. This is unique to Trump's policy.
Trump is not simply being a dickhead HE IS THE ONE WHO CAN STOP THIS OUTRAGE WITH A SINGLE PHONE CALL AND YET REFUSES TO! His administration created this policy of child kidnapping and torture.
Not my problem and not anyone else's fault but the person themselves
Do you not remember what you posted? You said "pursued".
Do you know what "arbiter" means? Are you actually allowing Donald Trump to be the arbiter of truth? I would caution you against this, but JohnRussell will do a much better job. I believe he may have every one of Trump's lies cataloged and cross-referenced.
Oh dear. Well, you do make this easy.
As for careful reading...you've misread my original post, you forgot what was in your own post, you've misread my follow up post, and apparently you've misread the requirements for asylum....if in fact you had read them at all.
Here's a question... remember when GWB begged Harry Reid to reintroduce immigration reform in 2007, only to have Democrats filibuster it? Remember when John McCain and Ted Kennedy introduced legislation in 2003? How about Cornyn and Kyl in 2005? Or Arlen Specter in 2006? Orrin Hatch co-authoring the DREAM Act in 2001? Remember Reagan granting amnesty as part of the last major reform back in 1986?
Or do your memories sort of begin with the Obama Administration?
Do you remember John Pertwee, or do you imagine Chris Ecclestone was "the first Doctor"?
We've struggled with this problem for decades, because nobody on either side of the aisle wants to face angry constituents back home.
Tortured. Citation on that? Or is that kinda like "pursued"....existing primarily in left wing imagination?
Duh...
Deeeeflection........................
Thank you for proving my point with your links.
Wow, excellent sentence to refute something I DIDN'T SAY.
Deeeeflection........................
I thought his Venutian judo was a little over the top. Favored Patrick Troughton of the originals myself, though I thought that Peter Cushing did an interesting version. But Rowan Atkinson was the funniest.
The treatment that the children are receiving violates the Geneva Convention rules for POW's. Are you claiming it only counts as torture if done to adults?
No soap - violation
No toothbrushes - violation
Preventing them from sleeping by leaving all the lights on - violation
Riiiight.
You have declared Donald Trump....you know...the NY real estate developer turned president....as the final authority of truth... And you think my noticing that is a "deflection".
Oh dear. You didn't read those carefully, either. There is a theme developing here....
Do you understand what a "citation" is?
You will certainly understand my reticence at trusting the statements of a person who has misread at least 5 things in this conversation alone.
Let me get this right.... are you actually claiming.... that "failure to provide a toothbrush".... constitutes ....."torture"?
I want to make very sure that's what you're saying here. I really hope it's not. Because that much batshit lunacy may very well break the entire internet. You are aware that the Geneva Convention defines torture as "the infliction of severe pain or suffering", yes? BTW, that means the migrants' pain and suffering, not the suffering of melodramatic Americans.
Out of curiosity, what happened to the toothbrushes the migrants brought with them?
The Geneva Convention states it is. All I am claiming is that the children are being treated worse than we are allowed to treat POW's.
I am guessing that the reason you paraphrased instead of quoted is that the actual article of the Geneva Convention does not support your claim.
Article 5 states, "No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment." ... The most notable treaties relating to torture are the United Nations Convention Against Torture and the Geneva Conventions of 1949 and their Additional Protocols I and II of 8 June 1977.
I'd suggest you read it for yourself instead of making it up as you go.
Except .... it doesn't.
The idea that "failure to supply a toothbrush" constitutes the "intentional infliction of severe pain or suffering" is a massive great steaming pile of melodramatic horseshit which totally eclipses any sane points you may be attempting to make.
If this was the main thrust of your point, you might have lead with that. By itself, that's not a ridiculous statement. I'm not sure I agree with it, but it's at least close enough to reality that it's worthy of consideration.
It is very likely that if the "torture" melodrama subsides we will agree on intellectual, non-bullshit assessments of the situation. Ideas like "the arrival of these people is not a surprise and these facilities should be better equipped"...or..."we have a moral obligation to take good care of children while they are in our country, regardless of the circumstances of their arrival"...or.... "this is an excellent opportunity for humanitarian groups to step in and meet a need" are reasonable, mature assessments of the situation that bypass damaging, indefensible nonsense.
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removed for context
Darn it! I didn't see what you posted. :0(
Feel free to PM me with the comment Sean. We can battle on chat!!!
Regardless of whom we wish to point the finger of blame at, all of us will be remembered for this and we are all to blame.
The only one to blame for these tragic deaths is the father and mother. They chose to illegally invade this country instead of complying with our laws.
escaping gang violence or seeking economic opportunity are not legitimate reasons to be considered for asylum or refugee status under both International and US law
Who are refugees and displaced persons?
They are men, women and children fleeing war, persecution and political upheaval. They are uprooted with little warning, enduring great hardship during their flight. They become refugees when they cross borders and seek safety in another country. They are displaced when they are forced to flee their homes, but remain within the borders of their native country.
The 1951 United Nations Convention relating to the Status of Refugees, as amended by its 1967 protocol defines a refugee as a person who "owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group, or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality, and is unable to or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country..."
What is the difference between a refugee and a migrant?
Refugees are forced to flee their homes and seek safety in another country, often times without warning. Migrants are people who make a conscious decision to leave their countries to seek a better life elsewhere.
There is no right to be granted asylum nor do you have the right to choose your country of asylum
8 U.S.C. 1158 - ASYLUM
The burden of proof is on the applicant to establish that the applicant is a refugee, within the meaning of section 1101(a)(42)(A) of this title. To establish that the applicant is a refugee within the meaning of such section, the applicant must establish that race, religion, nation- ality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion was or will be at least one central reason for persecuting the applicant.
The Attorney General may by regulation establish additional limitations and condi- tions, consistent with this section, under which an alien shall be ineligible for asylum under paragraph (1).