Developments in Rittenhouse case are highly unusual, experts say

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  tessylo  •  3 weeks ago  •  70 comments

By:   Ben Kesslen, NBC News

Developments in Rittenhouse case are highly unusual, experts say

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



Developments in Rittenhouse case are highly unusual, experts say










Ben Kesslen
Thu, February 4, 2021, 6:28 PM





Law enforcement experts are puzzled by a Wisconsin prosecutor's request Wednesday for an arrest warrant and bond increase for murder suspect Kyle Rittenhouse, drawing additional scrutiny to his high-profile case.  In a bizarre turn Wednesday, it appeared that  prosecutors didn't know the whereabouts of Rittenhouse, 18, after attorneys failed to notify the court of the address of a "safe house" where he is alleged to be residing, raising questions about why Rittenhouse wasn't being more closely monitored in the first place.  "I don't understand why you wouldn't tell the district attorney and the police the location of a murder defendant charged with first-degree murders," said NBC News terrorism analyst Jim Cavanaugh, a retired special agent of the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.




Rittenhouse was charged   with killing two people during protests   of the police shooting of   Jacob Blake in Kenosha   last summer.


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IMAGE: Protests in Wisconsin after Kenosha shooting (Tayfun Coskun / Anadolu Agency via Getty Images)



The Kenosha County District Attorney's Office alleged Wednesday that Rittenhouse violated the conditions of his bond by failing to notify the court of his changed address and asked the court to issue a warrant for his arrest and to increase his bond by $200,000. It also asked the court to order Rittenhouse to update his address immediately.  Rittenhouse was released from the Kenosha County Jail   on a $2 million bond in November with donations   made to his legal defense fund, largely from right-wing activists and conservative celebrities.

Rittenhouse's attorney, Mark Richards, alleged that police advised his previous attorney, John Pierce, not to provide the updated address.  "While completing paperwork related to Kyle's release, Attorney Pierce was directly informed by a high-ranking member of the Kenosha Police Department not to provide the address of the Rittenhouse Safe House because of the numerous threats made against Kyle and his family," Richards said in a response to the motion.  Counsel for Rittenhouse did not immediately respond to a request for comment by phone or email Thursday.

Kenosha police rebutted the claim Thursday, saying that while a police captain did speak with Pierce "regarding security concerns raised by Mr. Pierce, surrounding the Kyle Rittenhouse release from custody," the captain didn't provide "instructions about how to fill out paperwork."

NBC News legal analyst Glenn Kirschner, a former federal prosecutor, said: "It's beyond unusual to lie to a court about where a client is residing. It is no excuse to say that somebody else told me to lie about that. That adds insult to ethical injury."

Rittenhouse's attorney said Wednesday that attorneys contacted an assistant district attorney in November to discuss providing a new address if the prosecutors agreed to a sealed filing but that the district attorney's office refused.  Cavanaugh said that "it's unusual to deal with a defendant in a safe house" and that he could understand why Rittenhouse's defense wouldn't want the address made public, saying it's a reasonable request to ensure that Rittenhouse gets his day in court. Still, he said, authorities and prosecutors "have to know" where a murder defendant is, especially if he is receiving the threats alleged by Rittenhouse's defense.  Kirschner said that when he was a prosecutor, his department kept the court apprised about where a defendant was, no matter what. A simple rule, he said, is: "Don't lie to the court."  "There are so many appropriate ways to take care of the circumstances in the Rittenhouse case that don't involve telling the judge lies," he said.  









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Tessylo
PhD Principal
1  seeder  Tessylo    3 weeks ago

Rittenhouse's attorney, Mark Richards, alleged that police advised his previous attorney, John Pierce, not to provide the updated address.  "While completing paperwork related to Kyle's release, Attorney Pierce was directly informed by a high-ranking member of the Kenosha Police Department not to provide the address of the Rittenhouse Safe House because of the numerous threats made against Kyle and his family," Richards said in a response to the motion.  Counsel for Rittenhouse did not immediately respond to a request for comment by phone or email Thursday.

Kenosha police rebutted the claim Thursday, saying that while a police captain did speak with Pierce "regarding security concerns raised by Mr. Pierce, surrounding the Kyle Rittenhouse release from custody," the captain didn't provide "instructions about how to fill out paperwork."

NBC News legal analyst Glenn Kirschner, a former federal prosecutor, said: "It's beyond unusual to lie to a court about where a client is residing. It is no excuse to say that somebody else told me to lie about that. That adds insult to ethical injury."

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Principal
1.1  Bob Nelson  replied to  Tessylo @1    3 weeks ago

Gee! D'ya mean that the cops broke the law to help a murderer?

I'm shocked!

Shocked, I tell you...

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
2  Trout Giggles    3 weeks ago

Why wasn't he remanded to a cell? He's charged with first degree murder

 
 
 
JBB
PhD Principal
2.1  JBB  replied to  Trout Giggles @2    3 weeks ago

384

 
 
 
Tessylo
PhD Principal
2.1.1  seeder  Tessylo  replied to  JBB @2.1    3 weeks ago

You beat me to it. 

 
 
 
zuksam
Sophomore Silent
2.2  zuksam  replied to  Trout Giggles @2    3 weeks ago
Why wasn't he remanded to a cell? He's charged with first degree murder

Because it was self defense and there's a video to prove it. The only reason he was charged was because officials were afraid of more Leftwing violence.  If being a Dumbass ever becomes illegal then Kyle Rittenhouse would be guilty just for walking around alone through a mob of thieves with a gun that's worth a thousand bucks on the black market but he's not a murderer. What kind of fool attacks a guy with a gun, I think they're guilty of being Dumbasses but they're also guilty of assault which is a crime.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Senior Guide
2.2.1  Thrawn 31  replied to  zuksam @2.2    3 weeks ago

What video? 

 
 
 
zuksam
Sophomore Silent
2.2.2  zuksam  replied to  Thrawn 31 @2.2.1    3 weeks ago
What video?

You mean you've never seen the video? You need to see it, You'll see how Rittenhouse tried to run away from those people and obviously didn't want to shoot anyone. He was attacked repeatedly and only fired his weapon in self defense.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
2.2.3  Trout Giggles  replied to  zuksam @2.2    3 weeks ago

I'm not a lawyer, but one does not get a first degree murder indictment if it's in self defence

 
 
 
zuksam
Sophomore Silent
2.2.4  zuksam  replied to  Trout Giggles @2.2.3    3 weeks ago

Do you really think they're going to get a conviction? The video shows that Rittenhouse was not the aggressor, he wasn't yelling at them or threatening them, he was running away from them they were the aggressors. They assaulted him.

 
 
 
zuksam
Sophomore Silent
2.2.5  zuksam  replied to  Trout Giggles @2.2.3    3 weeks ago
but one does not get a first degree murder indictment if it's in self defence

They could indict a tomato if they wanted. If indictments were that rock solid they wouldn't have Trials.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
2.2.6  Trout Giggles  replied to  zuksam @2.2.4    3 weeks ago

I saw it. One guy was hitting him with a plastic sack...an empty plastic sack.

Look...the little punk had no business being there, it wasn't even his hometown. And a 17 year old kid walking around with a rifle is a story about to turn bad

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
2.2.7  Trout Giggles  replied to  zuksam @2.2.5    3 weeks ago
They could indict a tomato if they wanted.

As long as they indict the lettuce and bacon at the same time.

If indictments were that rock solid they wouldn't have Trials.

Evidence is brought before a grand jury to determine if there is enough evidence for a trial. If thre isn't then the prosecutor is handed a "no bill".

Don't you ever watch Law and Order?

 
 
 
zuksam
Sophomore Silent
2.2.8  zuksam  replied to  Trout Giggles @2.2.6    3 weeks ago
the little punk had no business being there, it wasn't even his hometown. And a 17 year old kid walking around with a rifle is a story about to turn bad

I don't know if he's a punk but he is a Dumbass and anyone with any sense wouldn't have put themselves in that situation but he was still attacked and it was self defense. As for what he was hit with he was also kicked, punched, and hit with a skateboard by multiple assailants and the video shows he was just trying to run away.

 
 
 
Ender
PhD Principal
2.2.9  Ender  replied to  zuksam @2.2.4    3 weeks ago

Where is the vid. I would like to see it.

The only vid I saw was him being treated with kid gloves by the cops.

 
 
 
Ender
PhD Principal
2.2.10  Ender  replied to  zuksam @2.2.8    3 weeks ago

I have been in bar fights and never pulled a gun.

It is the resort of a coward.

 
 
 
gooseisgone
Senior Quiet
2.2.11  gooseisgone  replied to  Ender @2.2.9    3 weeks ago
Where is the vid. I would like to see it.

Here you can see the video and his defense of the charges.

Kyle Rittenhouse attorney releases video in self-defense claim (nypost.com)

 
 
 
gooseisgone
Senior Quiet
2.2.12  gooseisgone  replied to  Ender @2.2.10    3 weeks ago
I have been in bar fights and never pulled a gun.

This wasn't a bar fight. 

 
 
 
zuksam
Sophomore Silent
2.2.13  zuksam  replied to  Ender @2.2.10    3 weeks ago
I have been in bar fights and never pulled a gun.

I've never taken a gun to a Bar. When I was young and went to Bars I did so to get drunk with my friends and carrying a gun would have been stupid. I think if I had a gun and multiple people jumped me and tried to take the gun I would shoot them since there's a good chance if they got the gun from me they'd use it on me. People don't fight fair anymore and if multiple people come after you you can expect the worst. If Rittenhouse hadn't fired his weapon we'd likely still know his name but as the kid who was killed by his assailants when they stole his gun.

 
 
 
Ender
PhD Principal
2.2.14  Ender  replied to  gooseisgone @2.2.12    3 weeks ago

Was an example. I have been in a fight at a concert before...

 
 
 
Ender
PhD Principal
2.2.15  Ender  replied to  zuksam @2.2.13    3 weeks ago

That is just making up a scenario.

You realize what you are advocating for...That anytime anyone fells a little bit threatened, to open fire.

His life was not in danger, any more than anyone else out there.

And they all managed to survive.

 
 
 
Ender
PhD Principal
2.2.16  Ender  replied to  gooseisgone @2.2.11    3 weeks ago

Got anything that is not an 11 minute propaganda video?

 
 
 
Tessylo
PhD Principal
2.2.17  seeder  Tessylo  replied to  zuksam @2.2    3 weeks ago

It was not self defense.  He walked right by cops after killing someone - people shouted as he walked by the cops 'he just shot and killed someone' and they let him walk.

There was no assault on Rittenhouse.  

 
 
 
gooseisgone
Senior Quiet
2.2.18  gooseisgone  replied to  Ender @2.2.15    3 weeks ago
That is just making up a scenario.

Bullshit, that's how the first guy was shot, trying to take his firearm. I don't know what you think people should do, I wouldn't in a million years chase somebody that had a gun.......why would you do that.  

His life was not in danger,

You have no idea of what you speak!!!!  The second person is on video clear as day hitting him with a skate board and trying to kick and punch him, he was already in danger when he shot.  The third guy was pulling a gun.  

 
 
 
gooseisgone
Senior Quiet
2.2.19  gooseisgone  replied to  Ender @2.2.16    3 weeks ago
Got anything that is not an 11 minute propaganda video?

If you don't know how to fast forward through a video, I can't help you. Open a You Tube account and watch it. 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Guide
2.2.20  Sean Treacy  replied to  Trout Giggles @2.2.6    3 weeks ago
One guy was hitting him with a plastic sack...an empty plastic sack.

Just ignore that he was being shot at and a lunatic sex offender was trying to take his gun.

Is your plan to just ignore inconvenient facts and hope they go away?

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Junior Guide
2.2.21  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Ender @2.2.16    3 weeks ago
Got anything that is not an 11 minute propaganda video?

Will a written timeline work for you? It only lasts as long as it takes you to read it.

Reading this, it seems as though there was a hell of a lot more people shooting than him.

 
 
 
Ender
PhD Principal
2.2.22  Ender  replied to  gooseisgone @2.2.18    3 weeks ago

I watched your propaganda video. Do you honestly think people wouldn't try to stop and apprehend someone that just shot someone?

Of course they would. Try to subdue the shooter.

 
 
 
Ender
PhD Principal
2.2.23  Ender  replied to  Sean Treacy @2.2.20    3 weeks ago

Are you saying that the kid knew of his criminal history and took that into account?

 
 
 
gooseisgone
Senior Quiet
2.2.24  gooseisgone  replied to  Ender @2.2.14    3 weeks ago
I have been in a fight at a concert before

Did you see the gun on the person you had the fight with. 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Guide
2.2.25  Sean Treacy  replied to  Ender @2.2.23    3 weeks ago

I'm saying the kid new he was crazy, there's video of the guy calling Rittenhouse a "nigga" and telling Rittenhouse to shoot him, , and Rittenhouse tried to run away from him.  Rittenhouse tried to avoid the confrontation which made the sex offender the aggressor. . 

 
 
 
Ender
PhD Principal
2.2.26  Ender  replied to  gooseisgone @2.2.24    3 weeks ago

My point, people use to get into fights and still do. Only cowards feel the need to brandish a weapon every time they feel uneasy.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Guide
2.2.27  Sean Treacy  replied to  Ender @2.2.16    3 weeks ago
ot anything that is not an 11 minute propaganda video

What a juror you'd make. Just call evidence propaganda and stick with your prejudices. 

 
 
 
gooseisgone
Senior Quiet
2.2.28  gooseisgone  replied to  Ender @2.2.22    3 weeks ago
Try to subdue the shooter.

If he had a gun, "fuck no", how stupid do you have to be, he just shot someone.  What do you think you're in a movie.   

 
 
 
Ender
PhD Principal
2.2.29  Ender  replied to  Sean Treacy @2.2.25    3 weeks ago

Stop using the 'sex offender' thing as some sort of justification. No one knew of his past and even if they did that would be more along the lines of premeditated.

 
 
 
Ender
PhD Principal
2.2.30  Ender  replied to  Sean Treacy @2.2.27    3 weeks ago

Watch the eleven minute long video and tell me it is not propaganda.

 
 
 
Ender
PhD Principal
2.2.31  Ender  replied to  gooseisgone @2.2.28    3 weeks ago

It happens in the heat of the moment.

I have seen vid of civilians helping law enforcement in apprehension.

Do you think the people on the plane from 911 would have not tried because of choice of weapon...

My whole thing is, the kid should never have been there to begin with and from what I have read, his mother was filling his head with right wing bullshit. May not be true but from what I gather, not the most stellar parenting around.

 
 
 
gooseisgone
Senior Quiet
2.2.32  gooseisgone  replied to  Ender @2.2.31    3 weeks ago
My whole thing is, the kid should never have been there to begin with

I can't say I totally disagree with you but, if BLM and Antifa weren't vandalizing business owners he wouldn't have been there in the first place.

If the police do something wrong there is a legal course of action to take.  Why anyone would defend the burning, breaking and theft of someone's property who has absolutely nothing to do with what happened baffles me.  

 
 
 
Ender
PhD Principal
2.2.33  Ender  replied to  gooseisgone @2.2.32    3 weeks ago

Still not his business to have to be there.

People filling the kids head with some kind of rhetoric and getting him worked up and thinking he is out on some cause.

I don't know of anyone that is happy about burning or theft.

Things like that only take away from the true cause.

 
 
 
gooseisgone
Senior Quiet
2.2.34  gooseisgone  replied to  Ender @2.2.33    3 weeks ago
Still not his business to have to be there.

Why are you ignoring the elephant in the room and want to blame someone else?

He was there because of BLM and Antifa destroying peoples properties and livelihoods  

I don't know of anyone that is happy about burning or theft. Things like that only take away from the true cause.

Maybe you should have a heart to heart with some of the posters here on NT. 

 
 
 
Ender
PhD Principal
2.2.35  Ender  replied to  gooseisgone @2.2.34    3 weeks ago

I don't blame anyone but him for his actions.

He had his head filled with rhetoric and decided to join some kind of vigilante group. This teenager decided to cross state lines and had another adult proceed to hand him a loaded weapon.

Even though I think his head was filled will a bunch of right wing talk, he himself made all of his choices. He chose to be there. He chose to brandish a loaded weapon. Every choice he made led up to everything that happened.

He does not or should not get absolved of all of his actions.

He made his choices. One does not get absolved because it was a bad choice.

 
 
 
gooseisgone
Senior Quiet
2.2.36  gooseisgone  replied to  Ender @2.2.26    3 weeks ago
Only cowards feel the need to brandish a weapon every time they feel uneasy.

Have no idea if he was a coward, I do know I would "never" attack someone that has a AR hung on their shoulder. 

 
 
 
gooseisgone
Senior Quiet
2.2.37  gooseisgone  replied to  Ender @2.2.35    3 weeks ago
He had his head filled with rhetoric and decided to join some kind of vigilante group. 

You don't know that! You have no idea of what was in his mind that night, stop acting like you do. 

Every choice he made led up to everything that happened.

Explain how it was "HIS" choice to be chased by Joseph Rosenbaum, which is what started the entire chain of events.. 

 
 
 
Ender
PhD Principal
2.2.38  Ender  replied to  gooseisgone @2.2.37    3 weeks ago

So what was on his mind...oh yeah, I am going to 'protect' from the evil left wing rioters....

Every choice he made led to what happened.

Why was he not with his group and seemed to be alone.

 
 
 
gooseisgone
Senior Quiet
2.2.39  gooseisgone  replied to  Ender @2.2.38    3 weeks ago
I am going to 'protect' from the evil left wing rioters.

YES.

Why was he not with his group and seemed to be alone

I believe he was in the beginning but, was being pursued by Rosenbaum.

You have stop to ask yourself why Rosenbaum elected to pursue him, what justification did he have to chase a 17 year old, what left wing thoughts were in his head. Rittenhouse didn't start this. 

  

 
 
 
Ender
PhD Principal
2.2.40  Ender  replied to  gooseisgone @2.2.39    3 weeks ago

Still, if I was in what I thought was a violent crowd, I wouldn't leave my group.

Rittenhouse didn't start this

No matter what, he was a part of it.

 
 
 
gooseisgone
Senior Quiet
2.2.41  gooseisgone  replied to  Ender @2.2.40    3 weeks ago
Still, if I was in what I thought was a violent crowd, I wouldn't leave my group

You act like he had a choice, he was being chased!

 
 
 
Ender
PhD Principal
2.2.42  Ender  replied to  gooseisgone @2.2.41    3 weeks ago

So they chased him out of his group?

 
 
 
SteevieGee
Junior Silent
3  SteevieGee    3 weeks ago

His bail should be forfeit.

 
 
 
Tessylo
PhD Principal
3.1  seeder  Tessylo  replied to  SteevieGee @3    3 weeks ago

EXACTLY.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Senior Guide
4  Thrawn 31    3 weeks ago

I am not even sure why he is out on bail to begin with. He killed two people, almost 3.

 
 
 
gooseisgone
Senior Quiet
4.1  gooseisgone  replied to  Thrawn 31 @4    3 weeks ago
I am not even sure why he is out on bail to begin with. He killed two people, almost 3

Here's a tip, don't case and attack someone that has a gun, things may not work out for you. 

 
 
 
Ender
PhD Principal
4.1.1  Ender  replied to  gooseisgone @4.1    3 weeks ago

Here is another hint. Don't cross state lines with weapons looking for trouble.

No matter how you try to justify it, he intentionally killed two people.

The fact that you all think it was justified, if not even cheer for him, shows just how out of whack priorities are.

 
 
 
gooseisgone
Senior Quiet
4.1.2  gooseisgone  replied to  Ender @4.1.1    3 weeks ago
Don't cross state lines with weapons looking for trouble.

I believe he got the weapon form a Wisconsin resident, show me any proof he was "looking" for trouble. 

he intentionally killed two people

VS What.......lie down and take your beating even though you may die.  

The fact that you all think it was justified

There were two outcomes, Rittenhouse assaulted and maybe killed or he defend himself, its not rocket science. 

 
 
 
Ender
PhD Principal
4.1.3  Ender  replied to  gooseisgone @4.1.2    3 weeks ago

What hyperbole. He was not beaten and he was not going to be killed.

Keep on though. If a right winger ever gets murdered, the accused can use the same defence.

If someone gave a 17 year old a weapon to walk around the street with, isn't that illegal? I cannot just hand any kid, that is not my own, a gun and let them walk around.

 
 
 
gooseisgone
Senior Quiet
4.1.4  gooseisgone  replied to  Ender @4.1.3    3 weeks ago
What hyperbole. He was not beaten and he was not going to be killed.

How on earth do you know that? All those nice BLM and Antifa boys would never do that.....right. 

If a right winger ever gets murdered, the accused can use the same defense

I don't care who you are if you are chasing someone "YOU ARE THE AGREESOR" they can shoot you. 

If someone gave a 17 year old a weapon to walk around the street with, isn't that illegal?

It's a felony in Wisconsin, and that person has a problem, I believe he has been charged. 

 
 
 
Ender
PhD Principal
4.1.5  Ender  replied to  gooseisgone @4.1.4    3 weeks ago

So he shot someone and people went after him. What do you think would happen, people want to stop and take selfies?

No matter what you all say, he is not some innocent bystander that was only there administering first aid.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
4.1.6  Trout Giggles  replied to  Ender @4.1.5    3 weeks ago

He shot libbies, Ender! It's all good!

 
 
 
gooseisgone
Senior Quiet
4.1.7  gooseisgone  replied to  Ender @4.1.5    3 weeks ago
he is not some innocent bystander

Never said he was, but he was NOT the aggressor,  he was fleeing. That is the key to the entire situation.  

that was only there administering first aid.

From what I have read he was there to help the business owner protect their property from rioters or do you think rioters should be left alone to burn, break and steal shit from people. 

 
 
 
gooseisgone
Senior Quiet
4.1.8  gooseisgone  replied to  Trout Giggles @4.1.6    3 weeks ago
He shot libbies

I don't think they had on a pink pu$$y hat, so not sure if he thought they were libbies.  

 
 
 
Ender
PhD Principal
4.1.9  Ender  replied to  gooseisgone @4.1.7    3 weeks ago

Not his job.

If it was so scary and bad I would have never let my 17 yr old go.

 
 
 
Texan1211
PhD Principal
4.1.10  Texan1211  replied to  Ender @4.1.5    3 weeks ago

is it their job to go after him?

 
 
 
gooseisgone
Senior Quiet
4.1.11  gooseisgone  replied to  Ender @4.1.9    3 weeks ago
If it was so scary and bad I would have never let my 17 yr old go

I agree, it was a bad situation from the start to finish.

 
 
 
Ender
PhD Principal
4.1.12  Ender  replied to  Texan1211 @4.1.10    3 weeks ago

I would have just tried to record on my phone while backing away.  Haha

 
 
 
gooseisgone
Senior Quiet
4.1.13  gooseisgone  replied to  Ender @4.1.12    3 weeks ago
record on my phone while backing away

If that happened one guy would still be alive and the other would still have two biceps. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
PhD Principal
4.1.14  Texan1211  replied to  Ender @4.1.12    3 weeks ago

right.

 
 
 
Ender
PhD Principal
4.1.15  Ender  replied to  gooseisgone @4.1.13    3 weeks ago

What he should have done, when the first guy was there just smack him in the face with the butt of the rifle, fire a warning shot and tell him to back the fuck off. But like I said, he is a kid.

I also wondered where the kids buddies were. It seems they left him to his own devices.

 
 
 
gooseisgone
Senior Quiet
4.1.16  gooseisgone  replied to  Ender @4.1.15    3 weeks ago
What he should have done, when the first guy was there just smack him in the face with the butt of the rifle,

Again, this is not a movie.

fire a warning shot and tell him to back the fuck off. But like I said, he is a kid.

You know there were shots fired before he shot Rosenbaum

 
 
 
Ender
PhD Principal
4.1.17  Ender  replied to  gooseisgone @4.1.16    3 weeks ago

So because a shot was fired before, that gives him a green light?

 
 
 
Ender
PhD Principal
5  Ender    3 weeks ago

So now they are going to let him get away with lying about the cops.

Either he is lying or the cops are lying. Reason enough for me to haul him in.

If he is fearing for his safety, he would be better off in custody.

Fuck the running around and hiding bullshit.

 
 
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