In court case, Giuliani shed new light on the Big Lie's origins

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  tig  •  4 weeks ago  •  32 comments

By:   Steve Benen (MSNBC. com)

In court case, Giuliani shed new light on the Big Lie's origins
It's not my job in a fast-moving case to go out and investigate every piece of evidence that's given to me. Otherwise, you're never going to write a story.

Giuliani relinquished all credibility in order to support Trump.    America's mayor turned himself into Trump's lying water-boy.   What is this magical power Trump has that causes so many people to destroy their own credibility (and careers) simply to satisfy his whims?


S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



Sept. 29, 2021, 12:00 PM UTC By Steve Benen

The New York Times published a striking front-page report last week with a headline that read, "Trump Campaign Knew Lawyers' Voting Machine Claims Were Baseless, Memo Shows." As the article detailed, Donald Trump's political operation carefully examined key election conspiracy theories, found them to be baseless, and prepared an internal memo on the findings.

Trump's lawyers, of course, pushed the falsehoods anyway.

We learned of this, not through a whistleblower or investigative reporting, but because of a defamation lawsuit filed by Dominion Voting Systems employee, who was targeted by the former president's team.

As we've discussed, however, there's no reason to believe this memo will be the only relevant revelation. On the contrary, the Coomer vs Trump Campaign case has also produced depositions from a variety of political players who were also involved in propagating nonsensical claims about the 2020 election. They've already answered questions, under oath, about their role in spreading conspiratorial falsehoods.

Take Rudy Giuliani, for example.

In this same defamation case, attorneys sat down with Donald Trump's infamous lawyer last month and asked about the origins of the Republican conspiracy theories, specifically related to voting machines — a core element of the GOP's anti-election push. As part of the deposition process, Giuliani, among others, was required to answer questions under oath, which in turn offers the public a window into how the nonsense became an animating principle for the former president and his allies.

The core question for the former New York City mayor was simple: Where did all this weird stuff come from? Giuliani was asked, for example, about media reports in which he said he'd relied on some media accounts and social media posts in order to go after a Dominion Voting Systems executive. Giuliani responded that he couldn't remember if it was Facebook or some other platform. "Those social media posts get all one to me," he said.

Giuliani added that he couldn't think of anything else "that I laid eyes on." This was itself amazing: Before going public with anti-election conspiracy theories, Giuliani's due diligence involved reading some stuff via social media — though he's not sure which platform.

The former president's lawyer also told the public he knew of a witness who could bolster the allegations against Dominion. In the deposition, Giuliani conceded that he didn't actually speak to the alleged witness, but he thinks someone else on Team Trump probably did.

Giuliani also said he didn't have any information about the alleged witness' credibility, and didn't make an effort to check. From the transcript:

"It's not my job in a fast-moving case to go out and investigate every piece of evidence that's given to me. Otherwise, you're never going to write a story."

He added that he didn't have the time to check whether the alleged witness' claims were reliable before sharing them with the public.

Rachel summarized Giuliani's message this way: "I read some stuff — I think it was maybe on Facebook — I laid it out to the public as what we knew to be the facts, and no, I had no idea if it was true or not. I didn't even try to check. Why would I try to check? You wouldn't have a story then."

At face value, it's tempting to laugh at the absurdity of Giuliani's deposition. Similarly, it's hard not to wonder how much longer he'll be permitted to have a law license.

But let's not forget that the bonkers conspiracy theories Giuliani and his associates pushed weren't just lies, they were toxins that entered the political world's bloodstream. The political system's resulting sickness isn't going away.


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TᵢG
Professor Principal
1  seeder  TᵢG    4 weeks ago

Dedicated to those who still (inexplicably) doubt that the 2020 presidential election was a legitimate, legal win for Biden.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
1.1  Dulay  replied to  TᵢG @1    4 weeks ago

I just struggled my way through Giuliani's deposition. HE still believes that Biden's win was illegitimate. Despite every and all of the reports, many from Republican election investigations, he STILL believes that Pennsylvania, Michigan, Arizona and Wisconsin were ridden with voter fraud AND that Dominion rigged the election.

It's astounding just how deluded he is. I can't tell if he was infected by Trump or if Trump was infected by him but there is no doubt that they share a malady.

Every one of the people that Giuliani named in his deposition should be viewed as conspirators and as pariah from this point forward. The law licenses of every one of them should be on the line. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.1.1  seeder  TᵢG  replied to  Dulay @1.1    4 weeks ago
HE still believes that Biden's win was illegitimate.

Does he genuinely believe it or is he just saying that because that is his best defense?  

Seems to me that if he admitted that he does not believe what he said that he is more likely to be found guilty.    But if a jury were to find that he really did believe what he was saying they might conclude that he was grossly incompetent (and incredibly stupid) but not malicious.

Bottom line, I think his 'belief' is more likely part of a defense strategy than a genuine belief.    But, he may indeed be deluded ... I do not know.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
1.1.2  Dulay  replied to  TᵢG @1.1.1    4 weeks ago

Just reading his deposition, it's hard to tell. He was rambling about the 'scenario' and was finally interrupted to try and get him back on track to answer the actual question. His rambling goes on for pages though and sounds 'practiced' since he was so equivocal on so much. He actually cites the same legal supports for the scenario as the memo does so either Eastman convinced Giuliani or it was a consensus in Trump world. 

Ironically, there are quite a few RW legal minds that have opined on the memo and call it critically flawed on multiple counts.  

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.1.3  seeder  TᵢG  replied to  Dulay @1.1.2    4 weeks ago

I am sure his defense is indeed critically flawed.   His pseudo-insanity ploy, however, might be the best he has got.   After all, what he did was outrageous and the evidence is overwhelming against him.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
1.1.4  Dulay  replied to  TᵢG @1.1.3    4 weeks ago

What was funny to me is that Giuliani's only defense against the defamation case is that he only defamed Coomer ONCE. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.1.5  seeder  TᵢG  replied to  Dulay @1.1.4    4 weeks ago

He is grasping at straws.   I would be surprised (shocked actually) if he had a real defense for his actions.  

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
2  Trout Giggles    4 weeks ago

What happened to the brilliant attorney who brought down the New York City Five Families? What happened to that mayor who governed NYC well for so many years?

His evidence is stuff he read on social media?????

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.1  seeder  TᵢG  replied to  Trout Giggles @2    4 weeks ago

I just have no words TG.   This fall-on-sword behavior for Trump continues to baffle me.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
2.1.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  TᵢG @2.1    4 weeks ago

I honestly believe Mr Guliani's warranty has expired

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.1.2  seeder  TᵢG  replied to  Trout Giggles @2.1.1    4 weeks ago

At the end of one's career most people think of their legacy.   Giuliani has instead put his lifetime accomplishments and credibility on the line to support the most outrageous con-job ever perpetrated by a PotUS.

I have no sympathy for Giuliani.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
2.1.3  Trout Giggles  replied to  TᵢG @2.1.2    4 weeks ago

This probably won't sound like me, but I do and that's because I don't think he realizes what he's doing. I really do think he's ill

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.1.4  seeder  TᵢG  replied to  Trout Giggles @2.1.3    4 weeks ago

Mentally ill?

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
2.1.5  Trout Giggles  replied to  TᵢG @2.1.4    4 weeks ago

Yeah. That's my not-so-informed opinion.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Guide
2.2  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Trout Giggles @2    4 weeks ago

This ahole even forgot that 9-11 happened on his watch.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
2.3  Dulay  replied to  Trout Giggles @2    4 weeks ago

The irony is that Giuliani states that he personally reviewed the investigations about Smartmatic, Sequoia and Coomer's Congressional testimony but didn't have the time to listen to the audio tape or investigate the veracity of the person who made the allegations against Coomer. 

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
3  Kavika     4 weeks ago

Rudy Four Seasons sold his soul to the devil for a couple of month's notoriety and is now brushed aside and unable to get paid from the delusional one. 

Quite the ending for 30 pieces of silver that he can't collect.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
3.1  devangelical  replied to  Kavika @3    4 weeks ago

that old man is about to get the media beating of a lifetime in case after case.

 
 
 
Veronica
Junior Guide
4  Veronica    4 weeks ago

Rudy, Rudy, Rudy.... how far your head is up Trump's ass......

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Guide
4.1  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Veronica @4    4 weeks ago

Far enough to know what he had for dinner.

 
 
 
Veronica
Junior Guide
4.1.1  Veronica  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @4.1    4 weeks ago

Oh god - what a picture....now along with the song "Electric Avenue" running around in my head now that image is there.  Gonna give me nightmares......

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Guide
4.1.2  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Veronica @4.1.1    4 weeks ago

jrSmiley_9_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
4.1.3  Kavika   replied to  Veronica @4.1.1    4 weeks ago

LOL, I know the feeling.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
5  Ender    4 weeks ago

I kinda agree with Trout. I think he is going nuts.

 
 
 
Veronica
Junior Guide
5.1  Veronica  replied to  Ender @5    4 weeks ago

Senility? 

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
5.1.1  Ender  replied to  Veronica @5.1    4 weeks ago

When he was talking (or spitting) at reporters and he had hair dye running down his face, all I could think was he is going insane.

 
 
 
Veronica
Junior Guide
5.1.2  Veronica  replied to  Ender @5.1.1    4 weeks ago

My hubby's stepfather had dementia and acted pretty much the same way.  Yelling so much that spit came out, sweating bullets as he raged - I don't know, but when I saw all that Rudy has put on display in the past few years all I see is my hubby's stepfather in his waning years.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
5.2  seeder  TᵢG  replied to  Ender @5    4 weeks ago

One can make that case that he is nuts;  after all, he is a Trump sycophant and actually trusted Trump.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
5.2.1  Dulay  replied to  TᵢG @5.2    4 weeks ago

I came away with judging him as lucid during his deposition. He understood questions and followed the counsel of his lawyers. Of course, that doesn't prove that he's not bat shit crazy...

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
5.2.2  seeder  TᵢG  replied to  Dulay @5.2.1    4 weeks ago

I do not think he is crazy at all;   I think he is perfectly sane.   His judgment seems to be entirely out of whack but tens of millions of Americans seem to have that same problem.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
5.2.3  Trout Giggles  replied to  Dulay @5.2.1    4 weeks ago

One can be suffering dementia but have a good day.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
5.2.4  Dulay  replied to  TᵢG @5.2.2    4 weeks ago
His judgment seems to be entirely out of whack but tens of millions of Americans seem to have that same problem.

Perhaps that's because he is utterly without a moral compass. 

 
 
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