Orbán declares at CPAC "a Christian politician cannot be racist"
Orbán declares at CPAC "a Christian politician cannot be racist"
H ungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán called on conservatives in Europe and the U.S. to take back power from liberals, declaring a "clash of civilizations" is underway.
The far-right leader, who addressed the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) in Texas on Thursday, recently faced an international backlash over controversial remarks he made in late July, in which he said Hungarians "do not want to become peoples of mixed race." One former adviser, who has since resigned, referred to those comments as "a pure Nazi speech worthy of Goebbels."
Orbán, who came to power in 2010, has increasingly clamped down on political opposition and press freedom, consolidating his power further over the last two elections.
At CPAC, Orbán tried to preempt criticism, claiming "a Christian politician cannot be racist" and that those who consider him a racist or anti-Semite are "simply idiots."
"I can already see tomorrow's headlines," Orbán said. "Far-right European racist and anti-Semite strongman, Trojan Horse of Putin, holds speech at conservative conference. But I don't want to give them any ideas, they know best how to write fake news."
During his speech, Orbán also attacked Jewish billionaire George Soros, former President Barack Obama, "globalists," and the Democratic Party: "They hate me and slander me and my country, as they hate you."
He also touted Hungary's aggressive illegal migration and anti-"gender ideology" policies. At one point, Orbán read the Hungarian constitution's definition of marriage being between one man and one woman, prompting applause from the CPAC audience. "Less drag queens and more Chuck Norris," he said.
A day before his appearance at CPAC, Orbán and his delegation met with former President Donald Trump at his golf club in Bedminster, New Jersey. Taylor Budowich, a spokesman for Mr. Trump's leadership PAC Save America, tweeted pictures of the meeting.
Hungarian Foreign Affairs Minister Péter Szijjártó also commented in a tweet that Hungarian-U.S. relations were "at their peak when Donald Trump was President" and expressed the hope that he'll be president again. .
With an eye toward the 2024 U.S. presidential race, Orbán called on conservatives to mobilize on both sides of the Atlantic to take back political power.
"We must take back the institutions in Washington and in Brussels. We must coordinate the movement of our troops, because we face the same challenge," he said. "You have two years to get ready."
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Orban has turned Hungary into an authoritarian, bigoted state. He has rigged elections, virtually ended a free press, and has condemned immigration, race mixing, same sex marriage. He told CPAC we are in a war of "civilizations", meaning I guess traditional viewpoints against societal progress. By his words, racism and bigotry represent humanity's most precious "tradition". And he got a standing ovation from the conservative Republicans at CPAC.
As far as Christians not able to be racist, he must not be a student of America. In the antebellum days slaveowners , white supremacists, and Christian preachers in the south used the Bible as justification for declaring black inferiority.
Hungary, has long been a racist state. Since the Enlightenment, that 17th-18th Century intellectual movement, race became one of the factors that scientists used to explain the natural world. Social Darwinists and other European intellectuals then developed conceptions of their physical attributes from race as species or subspecies, to a concept that embodied the features of a specific religious or ethnic group as critical to national identity.
In the early 20th Century, anthropometric, serological and anthropological debates on the ‘racial origin’ of various ethnic groups in Hungary occurred. Mathematical formulae, statistics and analyses of blood groups formed were used to build arguments that aimed to identify certain ethnic groups as ‘inferior and others as biologically verified ‘members’ of the ethnic majority.
Hungarian fascists, like other central European fascists and the Nazi's used this along with other modernist cultural rebellions that denounced the materialistic and individualistic view of the liberal bourgeois culture of the time.
Race and national identity became politically important again following the collapse of communism over 30 years ago. Orban didn't create this, he tapped into it.
seems to be a lot of 'leaders' tapping in
Yes, and it's ironic it traces back through eugenics and social Darwinism to original science during the so-called Enlightenment.
I always though that being a christian politician is a prerequisite to being a racist politician. But this helps explain why right wingers seem to like the guy so much.
It's laughable that you don't realize that there are racist politicians of other faiths and even atheist, racist politicians.
It's laughable that you are trolling me for something I never said.
Please show where I said that being a christian politician is THE ONLY prerequisite to being a racist politician.
No, you said a prerequisite, what other prerequisites do you see?
Correct, A prerequisite.
Quite a few. But see no reason to take the time to list them for someone that is just trolling me.
Find that hard to believe. To most leftists, to be racist, the only prerequisite is to be white. An added kicker for them is being a Christian.
So maybe you have learned that isn't true by now?
Or still clinging to weird theories?
Actually just the opposite. Religion makes a handy venue to try and justify your racism.
I suppose it is possible for someone to actually believe that a prerequisite for being a racist politician is being a Christian politician.
Fortunately for me, the people I tend to deal with are much too intelligent to ever fall for that silly line of 'reasoning'.
Historically, science was used.
[Deleted]
Religion has been used almost exclusively throughout history, however you are correct in that there have been a few examples of science being used as such. Of course there are more instances of science being used to encourage the move away from racism and toward equality.
Are there many references to races and racism in the Bible? Here are some science ones:
Do you remember the complete title of Darwin’s most famous work: On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life.
In his subsequent book The Descent of Man, he theorized that man, having evolved from apes, had continued evolving as various races, with some races more developed than others. Darwin classified the white race as more advanced than those “lower organisms” such as pygmies, and he other groups “savage,” “low,” and “degraded.”
Darwin wasn’t the first to propose biological arguments for racism, but his works fueled some of the most ugly racism.
The Bible, right or wrong, says that God created mankind in His image. We are all descendants of Adam and Eve, one race, the human race.
Take your pseudo religious racism theories elsewhere or respond to the laundry list of references that I sent you.
Do you understand the difference between science and pseudo science? Everything you posted has been disproven by actual science. I notice that you started in 1759, with religion is starts with the bible, and even before with non-christian religions.
They needed a way to justify slavery especially after black and native people started converting to Christianity, and then further to justify things like segregation. So they just made up “scientific” reasons, even though no actual science ever supported them.
Of course even smart people can buy into bullshit like racism when they grow up with it all their lives. People will go to great lengths to protect the reality of their lives no matter how baseless it is. Must be a comfort thing.
Again, people will go to great lengths to protect their worldviews, even smart people will come up with bullshit reasons to justify the bigotry they have grown up with and has helped shape their reality. Everything you listed is now considered to be bullshit pseudoscience, which it is.
There was never anything scientific about it, even when "scientific studies" were conducted that ended up supporting ideas of race or racial superiority the data, such as it was, was always cherry picked and the entire thing is always a clear example of forcing the evidence to support a preordained conclusion. We now know, thanks to actual science being done, that race is a purely social construct and the only impact the MC1R gene has is on the color of your skin. Literally nothing else.
You listed examples of otherwise smart people only willing to go so far in questioning the world around them.
A handy venue to justify a lot of hate and fear and ignorance
Yes, bad science.
2I'm still waiting to see Ozzwald's list of religious examples.
Let's see your list of examples.
Victims of our public school education?
The usual dog whistles
Those were mostly European examples.
Huh?
If you would like to learn something about this continuing problem, check out "Superior: The Return of Race Science" Hardcover – May 21, 2019 by Angela Saini (Author)
She provides clear explanations of racist concepts while exploring the history of race science, from archaeology and anthropology to biology and genetics. She goes through technical papers, reports and books, and interviewing numerous scientists across various fields, sometimes asking uncomfortable questions about their research.
“Mainstream scientists, geneticists and medical researchers still invoke race and use these categories in their work, even though we have been told for 70 years that they have no biological meaning, that they have only social meaning,” Saini says.
Did you know that James Watson, co-discoverer of DNA’s double helix structure, frequently voiced racist beliefs, including that differences on tests of intelligence have a racial component, and that Indians are servile and that Chinese people have somehow become genetically conformist?
We always need to remain alert to racial stereotypes, and it looks like you need to also be alert to religious stereotypes.
The RCC as the provider of religious doctrine via their interpretation of the bible used the ''Doctrine of Discovery'' in the 14th century to allow ''Christians'' to right to subjugate, kill or enslave the indigenous people of the Americas. In1452, Pope Nicholas V issued the papal bull. Dum Diversas, which initiated the first set of documents that would compose the Doctrine of Discovery. The Papal Bull “Inter Caetera,” issued by Pope Alexander VI on May 4, 1493, played a central role in the Spanish conquest of the New World.
The Marshall Trilogy of SCOTUS decisions (Johnson v McIntosh) took it and ran with it using it to disposes the indigenous people of the US title/right to our land.
The Doctrine of Discovery was never rescinded by the RCC although being requested by indigenous people on numerous occasions the latest being his recent visit to Canada.
The latest use of this was in 2006 in a case in NY, I believe.
Those leaving their shithole countries in Europe sought among other things freedom of religion and being the fair minded bigots that they were they outlawed Native American religions. In wasn't until 1978 that the American Indian Religious Act gave us that freedom again.
So the same old crap about Christianity and the bible is just that, IMO.
Good example, you comment from the basis of knowledge while others here from a basis of bias, Of course this example is more a reflection of the RCC than the Bible.
It's knowledge and facts.
The RCC lives by their interpretation of the bible so it's directly related. Over the decades the RCC and many other Christian religions followed the RCC lead case in point the ''Indian Boarding Schools'' of the US and the Residential Schools of Canada taught using the bible and Christianity while using abuse both physical and sexual among many other devastating methods of indoctrination. Remember the message was ''kill the Indian save the man''.
Yes, their interpretation.
When I provided my long list of science references, several were quick to point out that that was scientists cherry picking information or pseudo science. Ok, the same can be said about this example.
It was my original contention, and I’m not a Christian, so my interpretation may be wrong, but the Bible doesn’t assert the superiority of one race over others. In Genesis, it says the we all come from the original creation, made in God’s image. I think that Adam means humankind.
To find information about racial categories, characteristics and superiority, you can go to history of European science starting in the Enlightenment.
Maybe Ozzwald will prove me wrong and cite more examples from religious books than I have of science. I’ll wait.
I don't believe the Bible sights any specific examples but the interpretation by the RCC and many other Christian sects to validate their position is what is important.
The ''Doctrine of Discovery'' and the following papal bulls were 200 years before the Enlightenment in Europe.
This thread started with the assertion that"
The ozz commented that he
Later he claimed that
I disagree and think that European science is as much, probably more responsible and I provided a history of examples. That doesn't mean that I don't recognize that some peoples religious interpretations seriously distorted and twisted the meaning of Christianity to the decrement of others.
The Bible begins with the creation of humankind, it doesn't start off with the creation of a special or privileged race of people. Moses has inter-ethnic marriage, later he marries a Cushite woman, a Black African woman. The Bible claims that God approves of this marriage, and rebukes those thjat opposed it.
In the Book of Jeremiah, the prophet is imprisoned and he is left to die in the cistern. A Black African saves the prophet’s life. Ebed-Melech, this Black African, stands as a representative for those being incorporated into the people of God by faith.
The NT is even clearer, in the good Samaritan Jesus teaches that loving your neighbor as yourself means loving those in particular who are different than you ethnically.
Paul’s theology is that we all come before God based on what Christ has done for us, we are all equal before him. “There is no Jew or Greek, slave or free, male or female; you are all one in Christ Jesus.” No notion of ethnic superiority as it would be a denial of the theological reality of justification. And not just equality, but unity. “Here there is not Greek and Jew, circumcision and uncircumcision, barbarian, Scythian, slave and free; but Christ is all and in all.”
Again, scientists gave us information on the superiority of the white race over others, not the Bible.
Yes, I'm aware of all of that and I stated in the opening sentence of my last response that I don't believe that the Bible has any specific examples of it.
I also pointed out that the Doctrine of Discovery and the papal bulls were two hundred years before the Enlightenment in Europe.
Again, I'm pointing out that the RCC who at that time was the power in Europe practiced white/Christian superiority long before science in Europe did. As I stated earlier I don't believe that the bible expresses racism/superiority in its text but the followers/RCC of the bible certainly did.
Yes you've given Oz one example of a flawed interpretation, Let's see what he comes up with to back up his bias.
The English didn't need the Pope to tell them that they could trade with Africans and conquer or colonize vast areas of the world.
At the time period, it was the Italians, Spanish, Dutch, and Portuguese that were doing the deeds.
Africa is part of the Doctrine of Discovery and the papal bulls.
This is a perfect example of the ''missionary effect'' on native peoples. This was published on the Lakota reservation in South Dakota just a few months ago. Not only insulting to the Lakota people and their culture but IMO damn racist in its content.
The term “race,” used infrequently before the 1500s, then it was was used to identify groups of people with a kinship or group connection, not skin color, or hair or facial features. The word “white” also had a different meaning, that has transformed over time. Before the mid-1600s, there is no historical evidence that Europeans referred to themselves as being “white people”. From about the 1550s to 1600, “white” was used to describe elite English women, because they did not go outside to labor. In 1600's when the English first encountered and contrasted themselves against people of color European colonists’ use of the word “white” to refer to people who looked like themselves.
It was during the Enlightenment that science began categorizing humans by “race,” and a new hierarchy was invented based on the science, not religion, of the day.
Interesting since the RCC often spoke in unflattering terms of NA's in the 15th and 16th centuries. They ignored and considered our culture, language, religion, and all aspects of our existence, not legitimate. Their only mission was to transform us into what they considered ''good Christians''. They considered themselves superior to all others that were not ''white''.
The history of Christians and Native peoples is fraught with racism and ignorance towards us.
Actually, the colonizers and later the US government didn't recognize us as people. Standing Bear in 1877 gave his famous speech, ''I am a Man''....
His words convinced Judge Elmer Scipio Dundy in federal court in Omaha, Nebraska to declare for the first time in the nation's history that Native Americans are "persons" under federal law.
Remember that all of this is based on the ''Doctrine of Discovery'' and the papal bulls.
The 15th Century was 1401-1500. Columbus made three trips in the last decade of the century and never made the mainland.
I thought that most Catholic missions here started in the 1600’s or the 17th Century with only a few prior to that.
The natives that Columbus met, slaughtered, and enslaved were Indians the Arawak, Carib, and the Taino. Franciscan missionaries accompanied Columbus on his second voyage 1493.
The Spanish had missions/missionaries in what is now the US in the 1500s. In La Florida in 1565 and Nuevo Mexico in 1598 and other spots on the Eastern seaboard in the 1570s. More were added in the 1600s and the final was the California missions in the 1700s.
Welcome back, hope you had a good weekend. Have you found that list of racist example in the Bible yet?
All small c faux christians. [deleted] Makes me think of #45.
[deleted]
"During his speech, Orbán also attacked Jewish billionaire George Soros ..."
And like the good little clock he is, Tucker Carlson jumped onto his perch last night and cuckooed the same shyte with an extra constipated grimace for consumption.
Their scapegoat for all things - Soros and any one who advocates for all and not just the 'right' or should I say alt-rigjt
LOL, high comedy.
His own adviser resigned because of his racism, but at a U.S. conservative Republican meeting he is given a standing ovation.
At this point Adolf Hitler would receive a standing ovation. Hell, they would probably move to condemn the US military for its unjustified aggression against Nazi Germany in the 1940s.
American conservatism has gone completely off the deep end, it is now flat out a form of sadistic authoritarianism.
Gay people should be second class citizens.....Yea! standing ovation.
Immigration should not be allowed to keep the country pure....Yea! Standing ovation.
republicans are becoming some sick puppies.