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The Havoc That War With China Could Wreak

  
Via:  John Russell  •  3 years ago  •  18 comments


The Havoc That War With China Could Wreak
A major war in the Indo-Pacific is probably more likely now than at any other time since World War II.

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A major war in the Indo-Pacific is probably more likely now than at any other time since World War II.

The most probable spark is a Chinese invasion of Taiwan. President Xi Jinping of China has said unifying Taiwan with mainland China "must be achieved." His Communist Party regime has become sufficiently strong -- militarily, economically and industrially -- to take Taiwan and directly challenge the United States for regional supremacy.

The United States has vital strategic interests at stake. A successful Chinese invasion of Taiwan would punch a hole in the U.S. and allied chain of defenses in the region, seriously undermining America's strategic position in the Western Pacific, and would probably cut off U.S. access to world-leading semiconductors and other critical components manufactured in Taiwan. As president, Joe Biden has stated repeatedly that he would defend Taiwan.

But leaders in Washington also need to avoid stumbling carelessly into a war with China because it would be unlike anything ever faced by Americans. U.S. citizens have grown accustomed to sending their military off to fight far from home. But China is a different kind of foe -- a military, economic and technological power capable of making a war felt in the American homeland.

As a career strategic analyst and defense planner, including for Australia's Defense Department, I have spent decades studying how a war could start, how it would play out and the military and nonmilitary operations that China is prepared to conduct. I am convinced that the challenges facing the United States are serious, and its citizens need to become better aware of them.

The military scenario alone is daunting: China would probably launch a lightning air, sea and cyber assault to seize control of key strategic targets on Taiwan within hours, before the United States and its allies could intervene. Taiwan is slightly bigger than the state of Maryland; if you recall how quickly Afghanistan and Kabul fell to the Taliban in 2021, you start to realize that the takeover of Taiwan could happen relatively quickly. China also has more than 1,350 ballistic and cruise missiles poised to strike U.S. and allied forces in Japan, South Korea, the Philippines and American-held territories in the Western Pacific. Then there's the sheer difficulty the United States would face waging war thousands of miles across the Pacific against an adversary that has the world's largest navy and Asia's biggest air force.

Despite this, U.S. military planners would prefer to fight a conventional war. But the Chinese are prepared to wage a much broader type of warfare that would reach deep into American society.

Over the past decade, China has increasingly viewed the United States as mired in political and social crises. Mr. Xi, who likes to say that "the East is rising while the West is declining," evidently feels that America's greatest weakness is on its home front. And I believe he is ready to exploit this with a multipronged campaign to divide Americans and undermine and exhaust their will to engage in a prolonged conflict -- what China's military calls enemy disintegration.

Over the past two decades, China has built formidable political warfare and cyber warfare capabilities designed to penetrate, manipulate and disrupt the United States and allied governments, media organizations, businesses and civil society. If war were to break out, China can be expected to use this to disrupt communications and spread fake news and other disinformation. The aim would be to foster confusion, division and distrust and hinder decision making. China might compound this with electronic and probably some physical attacks on satellites or related infrastructure.

These operations would most likely be accompanied by cyber offensives to disrupt electricity, gas, water, transport, health care and other public services. China has demonstrated its capabilities already, including in Taiwan, where it has waged disinformation campaigns, and in serious hacking incidents in the United States. Mr. Xi has championed China's political warfare capabilities as a "magic weapon."

China could also weaponize its dominance of supply chains and shipping. The impact on Americans would be profound.

The U.S. economy is heavily dependent on Chinese resources and manufactured goods, including many with military applications, and American consumers rely on moderately priced Chinese-made imports for everything from electronics to furniture to shoes. The bulk of these goods is transported aboard ships along sea lanes increasingly controlled by Chinese commercial interests that are ultimately answerable to China's party-state. A war would halt this trade (as well as American and allied shipments to China).

U.S. supplies of many products could soon run low, paralyzing a vast range of businesses. It could take months to restore trade, and emergency rationing of some items would be needed. Inflation and unemployment would surge, especially in the period in which the economy is repurposed for the war effort, which might include some automobile manufacturers switching to building aircraft or food-processing companies converting to production of priority pharmaceuticals. Stock exchanges in the United States and other countries might temporarily halt trading because of the enormous economic uncertainties.

The United States might be forced to confront the shocking realization that the industrial muscle instrumental in victories like that in World War II -- President Franklin Roosevelt's concept of America as "the arsenal of democracy" -- has withered and been surpassed by China.

China is now the dominant global industrial power by many measures. In 2004 U.S. manufacturing output was more than twice China's; in 2021, China's output was double that of the United States. China produces more ships, steel and smartphones than any other country and is a world leader in the production of chemicals, metals, heavy industrial equipment and electronics -- the basic building blocks of a military-industrial economy.

Critically, the United States is no longer able to outproduce China in advanced weapons and other supplies needed in a war, which the current one in Ukraine has made clear. Provision of military hardware to Kyiv has depleted American stocks of some key military systems. Rebuilding them could take years. Yet the war in Ukraine is relatively small-scale compared with the likely demands of a major war in the Indo-Pacific.

So what needs to be done?

On the military front, the United States should accelerate programs already underway to strengthen and disperse American forces in the Western Pacific to make them less vulnerable to attacks by China. At home, a concerted effort must be made to find ways to better protect U.S. traditional and social media against Chinese disinformation. Supply chains of some critical goods and services need to be reconfigured to shift production to the United States or allied nations, and the United States must pursue a longer-term strategic drive to restore its dominance in global manufacturing.

Building a stronger deterrence by addressing such weaknesses is the best means of averting war. But this will take time. Until then, it is important for Washington to avoid provocations and maintain a civil discourse with Beijing.

The high-altitude balloon that drifted across the United States this month was seen by many Americans as a shocking Chinese breach of U.S. sovereignty. It may turn out to be child's play compared with the havoc China could wreak on the American homeland in a war.


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JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1  seeder  JohnRussell    3 years ago

Pure insanity. There are supposedly intelligent and thoughtful people who are advocating for a major war with China. I guess such people are tired of this world. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @1    3 years ago

They are?


Tell us John what should we do to avoid upsetting the CCP?

Tell us what to do about the Fentanyl the CCP is sending into the US?

Tell us what to do it China invades Taiwan?

Tell us what to do if the Chinese navy attacks a US warship?

Finally: why are so many democrats in bed with the CCP?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.1.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1    3 years ago
Tell us what to do if the Chinese navy attacks a US warship?

Should we declare war on China if it attacks one of our ships? 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.1.2  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1    3 years ago
Finally: why are so many democrats in bed with the CCP?

Why are so many right wing fanatics so obsessed with "communism" that they would have tens if not hundreds of thousands of people die because China is a communist country? 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.3  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.1    3 years ago

Yes.

I don't think any progressive, including our dear leader, would fight back even if China launched an attack on the US.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.4  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.2    3 years ago
because China is a communist country? 

No John, China has now passed us militarily and they have Biden in the WH. They let covid go out to the world, flooded the US with Fentanyl, stolen our technology, competed against our workers with slave labor and now threaten us at every opportunity.

It's what the CCP wants more than what we want.

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
1.1.5  Ronin2  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.1    3 years ago
Should we declare war on China if it attacks one of our ships? 

Yes! What a fucking stupid question! If they attack one of our ships it is an act of war! They have already declared war on us! 

How can the same people screaming for unlimited aid to Ukraine- and be so gung ho for possible nuclear war with Russia- be so fucking afraid of China?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.1.6  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.4    3 years ago
No John, China has now passed us militarily and they have Biden in the WH. They let covid go out to the world, flooded the US with Fentanyl, stolen our technology, competed against our workers with slave labor and now threaten us at every opportunity.It's what the CCP wants more than what we want.

sounds like you want it to me. 

China has now passed us militarily

what nonense

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
1.2  Sean Treacy  replied to  JohnRussell @1    3 years ago
here are supposedly intelligent and thoughtful people who are advocating for a major war with China.

Who?  

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
2  Greg Jones    3 years ago

It would not be in China's best interests to start a war that it can't win with its best trading partner.

Have they learned nothing from Russia's failure to absorb Ukraine

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
2.1  Ronin2  replied to  Greg Jones @2    3 years ago

China can take Taiwan, and there is nothing we can do to stop them.

But it would be a pyric short lived victory for China. 

Russia is no position to help them. North Korea is worthless outside of human troop fodder. Iran isn't positioned to help out; and is on the Arab/Israel shit list. Iran might find be fighting for it's own life if Russia and China are too busy with their own military entanglements.

Even if we abandon Ukraine to the Russians to concentrate on China- Russia will be so weakened they won't be able to join China in a war against the US. Even if they do- they aren't nearly as powerful as NATO (at this point) and our alliances in the Pacific.

Yes, the world may end up a lifeless nuclear husk; but that is the reason no one with a brain in their heads on either side wants to fight this type of war!

This entire article is nothing more than a smoke screen for the Brandon administration doing jack shit of nothing about China.  Per Brandon China is our "competitor not our enemy". His family has received enough Chinese money that he probably actually believes his own BS.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Guide
3  Drinker of the Wry    3 years ago

Last January, the House voted 365-65 to create a Committee on China, they had their first full committee meeting earlier this week.  It was reported that this meeting had an increasingly rare bipartisan tone.  The ranking Dem, Rep Krishnamoorthi, said “We must recognize that the [Chinese Communist Party] wants us to be fractious, partisan and prejudiced.”  The hearing agenda included, Taiwan, Tik Tok trade disparities and risks and the lack of Chinese human rights. This committee creation is in keeping with the Presidents National Strategy which finds China as the biggest potential threat to the US.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @3    3 years ago
“We must recognize that the [Chinese Communist Party] wants us to be fractious, partisan and prejudiced.” 

Is that a reason to go into a major shooting war with one of the most powerful militarys in the world, one which also has nuclear missiles? 

Talk of the need for a war with China is insanity. 

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Guide
3.1.1  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1    3 years ago
Is that a reason to go into a major shooting war with one of the most powerful militarys in the world, one which also has nuclear missiles? 

Of course not, has someone suggested that it is?

Talk of the need for a war with China is insanity. 

Who has talked of the need for war with China?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1.2  Vic Eldred  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @3.1.1    3 years ago
Who has talked of the need for war with China?

Well done sir.  We'll wait for the response.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
3.1.3  Greg Jones  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1    3 years ago
"Talk of the need for a war with China is insanity."

But Biden seems to heading in that direction....why do you think that is?

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
4  Nerm_L    3 years ago

The pertinent question is how much would the United States escalate a conflict with China?  The seeded article is really an analysis of US escalation.

China would contain a military operation to Taiwan.  China would annex Taiwan and extend its territorial waters around Taiwan.  China would not militarily attack the United States, the Philippines, Australia, Japan, or any other US ally.  The question is whether or not the United States would also contain the military conflict to Taiwan or would the United States directly attack China?

Look at a map.  The United States can't militarily defend Taiwan.  So, as the seeded article lays out, a war with China would not be a military war.  The United States would need to directly attack China using economic means.  The pertinent question is how much the United States would escalate the conflict?

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Expert
5  Kavika     3 years ago

An all-out war between the US and China would be devastating to both countries. China is pushing to become the preeminent player in the Pacific. The US is working to offset this by strengthing our position with allies and various moves with both our navy/marines and AF. Japan is building up a military quite capable of being on the offensive as is South Korea. Vietnam is now starting to purchase US made weapons after being supplied by both Russia and China. Australia and Japan just signed a pact that is the only other one that they have beside the pact with the US. 

Now, as a matter of fact, we have fought a war with China and no it isn't just Korea in the 1950s, it was also in Vietnam in the 60s. Unknown to most Americans we fought ground battles against Chinese troops also air battles in Vietnam. It was not a proxy war it was direct confrontation between the US and China and to a lesser degree Russia. 

Shortly after the end of the Vietnam war in 1975 the Chinese and Vietnamese fought pitched battles with thousands of casualties on both sides. 

Some investigation will show some of the moves that we have made to offset China in the Pacific. Check out what we have/are doing in Guam, Alaska, Japan, the Philippines, and South Korea. 

Many countries in Asia and SE Asia are upgrading their military including Indonesia which has purchased both US F-151D and French Rafale fighters. Singapore is buying very advanced munitions from the US. 

 
 

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