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Americans Have Never Hated Being American More, New Poll Finds

  
Via:  John Russell  •  last year  •  124 comments

By:   Robert McCoy (The New Republic)

Americans Have Never Hated Being American More, New Poll Finds
A new poll finds American pride is at an all-time low ahead of Fourth of July.

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A new poll finds American pride is at an all-time low ahead of Fourth of July.


As fireworks will rocket into the sky this weekend, national pride has, under Trump, sunk to its lowest point in recent memory, per a new Gallup poll.

Since January 2001, the polling firm has asked Americans whether they are proud to be an American, and this year's results—published with the Fourth of July on the horizon and the semiquincentennial a year away—have proven to be the most dismal on record.

Only 41 percent of American adults reported being "extremely" proud to be an American, and only 17 percent were "very" proud, according to Gallup. Twenty percent find themselves on the less-proud portion of the spectrum, saying they are "moderately," "only a little," or "not at all" proud (19, 11, and nine percent, respectively).

Only 36 percent of Democrats report being very or extremely proud to be an American, a 26-point drop from last year. The only other time when less than a majority of Democrats were proud was in 2020, during a global pandemic.

Independents' pride—which has steadily declined since 2001—is also lower than ever, with just 53 percent being very or extremely proud.

Meanwhile, Republicans, 92 percent of whom are very or extremely proud, are as chipper as ever. Members of the GOP have consistently floated around that figure, only dipping below the 90 percent mark in 2016 and 2020-2024.

According to Gallup, there is a significant generational divide in national pride: The younger the generation, the less likely than the previous it is to be very or extremely proud to be an American.

From 2021 to 2025, just 41 percent of Gen-Z adults and 58 percent of millennials were very or extremely proud, Gallup reports, whereas that figure for Gen X, Baby Boomers, and the Greatest Generation is 71, 75, and 83 percent, respectively.

In his inaugural address, Trump promised that his "top priority will be to create a nation that is proud, prosperous, and free." Perhaps the best that can be said of his presidency is that he's delivered to his base on that first promise.

More in interesting polls:Trump's Budget Bill Is Most Unpopular Move Yet, New Poll ShowsMost Recent PostEdith Olmsted/June 30, 2025/4:42 p.m. ET


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JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1  seeder  JohnRussell    last year

We have a couple people here on NT who are constantly asking what the big deal is with Trump, "get over it' is what they say. Who is he hurting? 

Here is the answer. Trump has damaged American society to the degree that more people than ever hate being Americans.  That is not "nothing", it is a national tragedy. 

 
 
 
Drakkonis
Professor Participates
1.1  Drakkonis  replied to  JohnRussell @1    last year
 Trump has damaged American society to the degree that more people than ever hate being Americans.

Where does it say Americans hate being Americans? I see that the seeded article is saying there's less pride, but I don't see anything about hating being American. 

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
1.2  Trout Giggles  replied to  JohnRussell @1    last year

I still love being an American. I just want my country to be better

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.2.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.2    last year

The writer of the seed should have used some other word than "hate". It obviously triggers some people. 

What should we do now , ask people exactly what they mean by "hate" ? 

I doubt anyone could be that precise. 

 
 
 
GregTx
Professor Participates
1.2.2  GregTx  replied to  JohnRussell @1.2.1    last year

Why would HATE trigger some people?....

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.2.3  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  GregTx @1.2.2    last year

I hate when people say that. 

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
1.2.4  Bob Nelson  replied to  GregTx @1.2.2    last year

Because their peers require them to hate, but they know, intimately, that hate is wrong. Cognitive dissonance at a painful level.

 
 
 
Eat The Press Do Not Read It
Professor Participates
1.3  Eat The Press Do Not Read It  replied to  JohnRussell @1    last year

Hello, Fellow Numbskulls, this is Jonathan Livingston Pigeon-Poo, "Doctored", straight from the street and not from the police, with a word of advice.

If you still support "Dirty Diaper Donnie," you may need a Mental Health Check-Up. But, please don't ask RFK, Jr. for his advice. Like "Dirty Diaper Donnie", the former 14-year Heroin addict, is as nutty as a FRUIT CAKE.

I suspect that both are, and sucking from the same twisted font.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
1.3.1  CB  replied to  Eat The Press Do Not Read It @1.3    last year

I'm of two-minds about RFK, because he clearly needs to rein in the vaccine fearmongering doubting, but he MAY have a decent rapport about the quality of (ultra-processed) food and the cost of medications.

There is no doubt that Trump and RFK are wrong to mess with the Affordable Care Act participants. . . .people will die from that. We just have to hang on for the duration.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
2  Sparty On    last year

Not a shocker.    Not with the full court TDS press the progressive left has had on the last eight or so years.    Not with so many impressionable lemmings out there.

Main thing I’m ashamed of in this country is how many Americans have their heads up their butts.    Look how many of you voted in a babbling puppet like Biden and defended him to the bitter end.    Then you almost voted in a giggling moron who never received one primary vote.

That is sad.     Very sad.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Sparty On @2    last year

Either one of them was better than a traitor. 

The only people who dont know Trump is a traitor are the people who dont want to know. 

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
2.1.1  Greg Jones  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1    last year

Traitor? 

In whose universe?

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
2.1.2  Sparty On  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1    last year
Either one of them was better than a traitor.  The only people who dont know Trump is a traitor are the people who dont want to know. 

Opinions do vary.     Greatly in this case.     “Reason” left the progressive barn the moment Trump came down the escalator nearly ten years ago and hasn’t been seen since.

She gone …..

 
 
 
Thomas
Professor Guide
2.1.3  Thomas  replied to  Greg Jones @2.1.1    last year

In every universe

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
2.1.4  Sparty On  replied to  Thomas @2.1.3    last year

Only in the the universe of the triggered

 
 
 
Eat The Press Do Not Read It
Professor Participates
2.2  Eat The Press Do Not Read It  replied to  Sparty On @2    last year

There are many, predominantly low-income Americans, who mistakenly believe that a selfish, SUPER RICH, spoiled rich BRAT, is going to give a rat's patuta about them!

Back in the day, in the 1940s, poor folks idolized "Bonnie & Clyde", too.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
2.2.1  Sparty On  replied to  Eat The Press Do Not Read It @2.2    last year

Buddy ….. can you spare a dime? 

Of course that dime is now worth like 2 bucks …..

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
3  Greg Jones    last year

Most of that downturn came from the disastrous Biden regime, better known as Obama 2.0.....the auto-pen presidency 

I've never been more proud to be an American as the stench of progressivism is washed away.

It is taking a lot of scrubbing to get the job done

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
3.1  Tacos!  replied to  Greg Jones @3    last year
I've never been more proud to be an American as the stench of progressivism is washed away.

There are positive aspects to both conservatism and progressivism, but either can be taken to extremes. What we are seeing in government today is not a positive conservatism. It is bigotry, ignorance, and cruelty - and enabling it all: corruption. 

Todays’s example is the eagerness with Republicans rush to raise the debt ceiling by 5 Trillion dollars. There is nothing conservative about that, but going along with it will help these corrupted politicians seize or hold power and wealth.

 
 
 
Thomas
Professor Guide
3.1.1  Thomas  replied to  Tacos! @3.1    last year
There are positive aspects to both conservatism and progressivism, but either can be taken to extremes. What we are seeing in government today is not a positive conservatism. It is bigotry, ignorance, and cruelty - and enabling it all: corruption. 

Just a fine distinction here: I would say that the "bigotry, ignorance, and cruelty" were in the service of corruption. He is just plain mean person who is corrupt. Add whatever gilding to that you want.

 
 
 
Eat The Press Do Not Read It
Professor Participates
3.2  Eat The Press Do Not Read It  replied to  Greg Jones @3    last year

Greg, why don't you tell us a little about yourself so we can better understand your point of view?

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
4  Sean Treacy    last year

No, per the poll, democrats  have never hated being Americans more. They are loyal to their party.  They are proud to be Americans only when in control. Turning Americans against America is the goal of many of their educators, but it’s really only taken root among the cult members.

any objective person with even the tinniest bit of wisdom and historical knowledge understands how lucky they are to be Americans.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
4.1  Sparty On  replied to  Sean Treacy @4    last year
democrats  have never hated being Americans more.

This is understood.    Especially if you are an American straight white male.    And the coup de gras, being an American straight white Jewish male.

Bad juju according to many of our hate filled friends on the left.    Very bad ….

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.2  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Sean Treacy @4    last year

Believe it or not, many Americans dont like having their country embarrassed by their president on a constant daily basis.  Trump is a buffoon, it is evident in his actions, his thoughts and in his mental illness. 

MAGA doesnt care, and that is the tragedy. This is all written in stone and will never not be the case for the rest of our lives. 

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
4.2.1  Sparty On  replied to  JohnRussell @4.2    last year

And yet, you were fine with the buffon from the previous four years.     Radio silence on all his fuck ups.    Which tells the entire story here for you ……

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.3  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Sean Treacy @4    last year

Yes, we are very fortunate to have been born Americans.  So what?  Is that supposed to excuse this travesty? 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
4.4  Jack_TX  replied to  Sean Treacy @4    last year
No, per the poll, democrats  have never hated being Americans more. They are loyal to their party.  They are proud to be Americans only when in control.

Some of them not even then.  

There will always be the extremist contingent that can't work through their white liberal guilt.  They are committed to the idea that we should all be ashamed of everything from the natives we never fought to the slaves we never owned to the poor we never took money from to the student loans we never took out.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.4.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Jack_TX @4.4    last year

I guess you are concern free then. 

After all, you think Trump is a minor irritation not worth caring about. . 

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
4.4.2  CB  replied to  Jack_TX @4.4    last year

I guess it is a 'labor of love' to persist in living like it is 1776. . .er '79 for some conservatives.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
4.4.3  Sparty On  replied to  CB @4.4.2    last year

No one alive today has the slightest idea of what was like to live in 1776.    Unless of course you are 250 years old.

 
 
 
Igknorantzruls
Junior Quiet
4.4.4  Igknorantzruls  replied to  Jack_TX @4.4    last year

The thing most Americans should be ashamed of, imho, is the Convict 34 times convicted felon who bragged of grabbing pussy, palled around with Epstein, incited an insurrection to try and thwart our peaceful transfer of power after promoting a proven LIE that the 2020 election was stolen from him, an individual that was found in a civil case to have sexually assaulted a woman who he continued to berate and owed some $80,000,000.00 Million Dollars to, an incessant LIAR, truth manipulator and American Constitution Hater!

 This is why Americans aren’t very proud lately 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.4.5  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Igknorantzruls @4.4.4    last year
The thing most Americans should be ashamed of, imho, is the Convict 34 times convicted felon who bragged of grabbing pussy, palled around with Epstein, incited an insurrection to try and thwart our peaceful transfer of power after promoting a proven LIE that the 2020 election was stolen from him, an individual that was found in a civil case to have sexually assaulted a woman who he continued to berate and owed some $80,000,000.00 Million Dollars to, an incessant LIAR, truth manipulator and American Constitution Hater!

You're going to have to come up with more than that if you want to impress MAGA. /s

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
4.4.6  CB  replied to  Sparty On @4.4.3    last year

It's in the record-keeping.  And apparently, so-called "Orginalists" love trying to clamp down on the future.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
4.4.7  Sparty On  replied to  Igknorantzruls @4.4.4    last year

Speak for yourself.    Myself I’m more ashamed of all the Americans who looked the other way as who knows who was running the government the previous four years.    Then voted for a giggling idiot who received exactly zero primary votes.

But hey, they created a new charge category of Misdefelony.    Outstanding!

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
4.4.8  Sparty On  replied to  CB @4.4.6    last year

Folks who simply read about history and therefore think they experienced it, can be dangerous lot.    Very dangerous.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
4.4.9  CB  replied to  Sparty On @4.4.8    last year

Lite commenting leaves much to be desired and since that comment is not PITHY I am compelled to discount it.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
4.4.10  Jack_TX  replied to  JohnRussell @4.4.1    last year
I guess you are concern free then. 

I am guilt free about things I never did, absolutely.

After all, you think Trump is a minor irritation not worth caring about. . 

Still not joining your hysteria club.  Keep me posted on its achievements, though.

 
 
 
Igknorantzruls
Junior Quiet
4.4.11  Igknorantzruls  replied to  Sparty On @4.4.7    last year
Speak for yourself.    Myself I’m more ashamed of all the Americans who looked the other way as who knows who was running the government the previous four years.

I am. IMHO means just that. I'm reacting to poll numbers, stating Americans aren't very proud lately. Ive stated mo opinion as to why I think that is. I was taught not to be proud of being a criminal, or voting and,or supporting one. Biden is history, any thoughts on that great big beautiful Bozo the Clown you and so may others wish to brag about...?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.4.12  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Igknorantzruls @4.4.11    last year

We have  THE current national leader as someone who tried to overthrow his own government, and people are supposed to be proud of this ?  Its totally ridiculous and a big part of the reason why Americans are less proud to be Americans than previously. 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
4.4.13  Jack_TX  replied to  CB @4.4.2    last year
I guess it is a 'labor of love' to persist in living like it is 1776. . .er '79 for some conservatives.

What are you talking about?

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
4.4.14  Jack_TX  replied to  Igknorantzruls @4.4.4    last year
The thing most Americans should be ashamed of, imho, is the Convict 34 times convicted

You mean that our democratic system worked?  Again?  

Despite how ridiculously and irrationally emotional so many of us are?

You mean that we can disagree about what decisions should be made or who should be making them, but we still move forward?

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
4.4.15  CB  replied to  Jack_TX @4.4.13    last year

I have no time for this. 

 
 
 
Igknorantzruls
Junior Quiet
4.4.16  Igknorantzruls  replied to  Jack_TX @4.4.14    last year
but we still move forward?

might want to check on that part

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
4.4.17  Jack_TX  replied to  Igknorantzruls @4.4.16    last year
might want to check on that part

I did.  

Still moving forward.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.4.18  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Jack_TX @4.4.14    last year

Your laissez-faire attitude toward a traitor is quite something to see. 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
4.4.19  Jack_TX  replied to  JohnRussell @4.4.18    last year

He is the president.  He will be the president for another 3 1/2 years or so.  Nothing either of us can do about that now. 

It would be really unhealthy to live all that time in a constant anxiety attack.  The meds alone would ruin the kidneys.

So.... still not joining your hysteria club.  

BTW, what have they accomplished since the last update?

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
4.4.20  Sparty On  replied to  CB @4.4.9    last year

Thinking people care what you think, is often a mistake.    Especially in this place.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
4.4.21  Sparty On  replied to  Igknorantzruls @4.4.11    last year
Biden is history,

So was Trump in 2020.     And yet, the left threw a four year temper tantrum on him.    In fact, it never stopped.

you’ve got zero high ground here.     None

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
4.4.22  Trout Giggles  replied to  Igknorantzruls @4.4.11    last year
I was taught not to be proud of being a criminal, or voting and,or supporting one.

Yeah I was brought up with morals. Not the Christian morals that the MAGAs claim

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
4.4.23  Bob Nelson  replied to  Trout Giggles @4.4.22    last year

I had a very good conversation with Jack (yes, truly!), a little while ago. It made me dig into the sources of my empathy, and the social conscience that anyone with any empathy must have.

Sunday school. The stories of Christ loving the poor and weak. 

I wonder about the childhood source for adoration of cruelty...

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
4.4.24  bugsy  replied to  Jack_TX @4.4.19    last year

‘He will be the president for another 3 1/2 years or so’

And that, my friend, is a major triggering point of the left.

I am curious as to how loud the yelling at the sky will be when Vance gets elected in 2028

 
 
 
Igknorantzruls
Junior Quiet
4.4.25  Igknorantzruls  replied to  Sparty On @4.4.20    last year
Thinking people care what you think, is often a mistake.

Un fortunately, they are forced to care, otherwise they would not be 'thinking'

 
 
 
Igknorantzruls
Junior Quiet
4.4.26  Igknorantzruls  replied to  Jack_TX @4.4.17    last year
I did.   Still moving forward.

Just because there is a check mark,

doesnt mean it was checked next to the F, cause far more evidence it was checked next to the R. And it is checked at the S tart, over and overtly, again and again, as 'thinking' individuals No When is When and need not to Re Start, cause it's so not sweet, asz so many show over and over, how Re Tart

 
 
 
Igknorantzruls
Junior Quiet
4.4.27  Igknorantzruls  replied to  Sparty On @4.4.21    last year
And yet, the left threw a four year temper tantrum on him.

Yea, and of course it had NOTHING to do with Trump and Cumps' LIE about a stolen election, as people around him lost their Law Licenses and went to jail, where he would and should be, if not elected my mental defected

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
4.4.28  CB  replied to  Bob Nelson @4.4.23    last year

Please elaborate on where from empathy springs up in humans. . . because some here are desperate to pretend that they have no public or social feelings. . . that they are disaffected. Hell, even our SCOTUS demonstrates feelings for the "machines" they opine about every year.

Just this week, I asked some here (conservatives) to inform us as to how they make moral decisions using "what" authority. . . they ditched the question repeatedly and 'ran.' 

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
4.4.29  Sparty On  replied to  Igknorantzruls @4.4.25    last year

Easily forced eh

thats a personal problem

very apropos

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
4.4.30  Sparty On  replied to  Igknorantzruls @4.4.27    last year

Lawfare is their game

life will never be the same

Democrats own it

 
 
 
Eat The Press Do Not Read It
Professor Participates
4.4.31  Eat The Press Do Not Read It  replied to  CB @4.4.15    last year

Hey, CB, I am back in the Saddle again. It's good to see that you're still here.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
4.4.32  CB  replied to  Eat The Press Do Not Read It @4.4.31    last year

Hi! Hey! Howdy "Cowboy!"  That's how glad I am to see you too! :) :) :) I was. . . wondering. . . 'bout those nurses and their pill bottles and a mix up!  (Chuckles.) 

Seriously, I am so very happy you are doing alright enough to stop and come 'in'! 

Are you OKAY?!

(Now pick up you load! And get to work on it!) :)

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
4.4.33  Bob Nelson  replied to  CB @4.4.28    last year
where from empathy springs up in humans

It's a fascinating question, isn't it? Please understand that I have absolutely no education in this area; I have ideas, but they're nothing more than that.

Homo sapiens is a gregarious species - our ancestors have lived in clans since at least as long as we can find traces. Being part of a clan means collaborating. That may be enforced by the strongest member of the clan, or may be a thoughtful means for leveraging individual strengths. The strongman doesn't need empathy, but the second case is greatly simplified if there's a natural tendency to feel sympathy.

Homo sapiens also has a very long period of gestation for an animal our size, and then a ridiculously childhood / adolescence, when care is needed. (Some think menopause is a way of obtaining non-childbearing caregivers.) Empathy is an obvious plus.

"Where does the love of cruelty come from?" is an equally fascinating question.

 
 
 
Thomas
Professor Guide
4.4.34  Thomas  replied to  Trout Giggles @4.4.22    last year

I, too, was brought up with morals, and the Christian morals, without modification, are usually good enough. Most people, including MAGA, think they are moral, believe they are moral, in principle, will probably fight you if you say they are not moral. But they are moral only up to a point. When you tell them that Jesus said to love everyone as you would love yourself, it is fine if saying it is as far as you get. When you start reminding people that these rules apply in all situations that they get a bit testy. Most people, IMO, would like to observe morals from afar, rather than observe the strictures that those morals apply to their daily life.

It is far easier to talk the talk than to walk the walk.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
4.4.35  Sparty On  replied to  Thomas @4.4.34    last year
I, too, was brought up with morals

Morals are funny things.    They can be very different things to different people.     For example, let’s go to the basics.    Do unto others as you would you have them do unto you.    Problem with that is some seem to enjoy being treated like shit.     Does that mean it’s moral to treat them like shit?    Even though you don’t want to be treated like shit nor do you treat them like shit.

These days “morals” come down to stupid shit for some people.     There are few good reasons to forsake good friends and family and yet, people do it every day for stupid “moral” reasons like who they voted for.

Yeah, people toot their moral horn all the time but to share another cliche ….. actions speak louder than words.    So we agree on that.    Look inward.    Truly inward.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
4.4.36  Bob Nelson  replied to  Sparty On @4.4.35    last year

512

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
4.4.37  CB  replied to  Sparty On @4.4.35    last year
For example, let’s go to the basics.    Do unto others as you would you have them do unto you.    Problem with that is some seem to enjoy being treated like shit.     Does that mean it’s moral to treat them like shit?

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto YOU." Is not about how others WANT to be treated; it is about how YOU would like others to treat you-that do!  If one is not a person who is "shitty" to people in general (in scriptural context (it matters here) Jesus was talking to his followers who would want good for people (not "shit"), then one can not be made to BECOME "shit" to suit others wishes. At which point, all things being equal, one would simply leave the other alone to his/her "shitty" state of being.

Do not overthink it. 

Do unto others as you would have them do unto YOU. Because at the finishing end of the circle closing: Good is what this is about not "shit."

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
4.4.38  Sparty On  replied to  Bob Nelson @4.4.36    last year

Or put another way for my well rounded friends on the left:

Jesus: love one another

ppl: but what if they're conservative and/or voted for Trump?

Jesus: Did I stutter?
 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
4.4.39  Sparty On  replied to  CB @4.4.37    last year

I’m not one over thinking or trying to spin it.

SOSDD

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
4.4.40  Bob Nelson  replied to  CB @4.4.37    last year
Do unto others as you would have them do unto YOU.

              jrSmiley_81_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
4.4.41  Bob Nelson  replied to  Sparty On @4.4.38    last year

Absolutely! Jesus requires us to love everyone, even the poor, the shit-hole-country-natives, and MAGAs!

It's not easy, but that's what He requires. 

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
4.4.42  CB  replied to  Sparty On @4.4.39    last year

Yes, that is so. Either that, or immersed in the Old Testament - eye for an eye mindset. Find what is properly good and do that unto others - is the Christian context of the saying!

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
4.4.43  Sparty On  replied to  Bob Nelson @4.4.41    last year
It's not easy, but that's what He requires. 

A lot of folks here failing on that one.    Know what I mean?

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
4.4.44  Sparty On  replied to  CB @4.4.42    last year
Yes, that is so.

Nope and the accusation is pure projection on your part.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
4.4.45  CB  replied to  Sparty On @4.4.44    last year

We can have that scriptural debate, but you will have to attend to setting it up (or not).

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
4.4.46  Bob Nelson  replied to  Sparty On @4.4.43    last year

Among other specifications, He commanded His followers to welcome the immigrant. So... one may either follow Trump of follow Christ... but never both.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
4.4.47  Sparty On  replied to  Bob Nelson @4.4.46    last year

I don’t recall getting any commands from Trump.    Regardless, it would only matter to the triggered if he did.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
4.4.48  Bob Nelson  replied to  Sparty On @4.4.47    last year

I capitalize "He" for Christ, and only Him.

Do you capitalize "He" for Trump? 

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
4.4.49  Sparty On  replied to  Bob Nelson @4.4.48    last year

I’m sure “He” wouldn’t appreciate being used as a political cudgel.    Especially from people who likely don’t really believe or follow his teachings in the first place.

Next …..

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
4.4.50  CB  replied to  Sparty On @4.4.49    last year

Who follows "his' teachings? 

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
4.4.51  Sparty On  replied to  CB @4.4.50    last year

I suggest you and Hallux start a new discussion to find out.     Perhaps you’ll have an epiphany.

 
 
 
Hallux
Professor Principal
4.4.52  Hallux  replied to  Sparty On @4.4.49    last year
I’m sure “He” wouldn’t appreciate being used as a political cudgel.

... and I'm sure that after 2,000 years 'He' is quite used to it.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
4.4.53  CB  replied to  Sparty On @4.4.51    last year

So it another in a long series of 'drive-bys' (again). Got it.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
4.4.54  Bob Nelson  replied to  Hallux @4.4.52    last year

jrSmiley_81_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
4.4.55  Bob Nelson  replied to  CB @4.4.53    last year

jrSmiley_81_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
4.4.56  Sparty On  replied to  CB @4.4.53    last year

[✘]

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Quiet
4.5  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Sean Treacy @4    last year
No, per the poll, democrats have never hated being Americans more.

I get that many people have poor reading comprehension, but this is just sad. The poll doesn't show democrats hating America, it shows that fewer democrats are "extremely proud" or "very proud". To try and claim the growth of the middle section of "moderately proud", especially with the evidence showing the growth is mostly from the Gen Z'ers, is somehow proof Democrats "hate" America is just pure scum bag partisan bullshit.

The poll shows that just about all Americans are proud of our country, with just a small percent "not at all" proud. Trying to parse between "extremely" "very" "moderately" "only a little" and "not at all" is a ridiculous exercise and only serves to divide us further.

Personally, I'm extremely proud of my country, but I also recognize and accept that it's a long way from perfect and we've made a lot of mistakes, some of which I am not proud of. But recognizing and admitting our faults doesn't mean I'm not extremely proud of our nation. I think true pride can only exist when we are completely honest with ourselves and admit when we make mistakes so that we can work to fix them instead of pretending they don't exist which always ends up turning undeserved pride into a cancer that destroys one from within.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
4.5.1  CB  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @4.5    last year

It is funny that comment 4.6 mentions Michelle Obama - a likely reference to her statement in Obama's first win:

For the first time in my adult lifetime, I’m really proud of my country and not just because Barack has done well, but because I think people are hungry for change. And I have been desperate to see our country moving in that direction and just not feeling so alone in my frustration and disappointment. I’ve seen people who are hungry to be unified around some basic common issues and it’s made me proud.

Her words were reinterpreted by her critics to say that was 'not proud' of her country - instead of what she actually stated "I' m REALLY proud of my country. . . .'

Now then, for the first time in my life, as a black male, I am NOT PROUD of my country , because it is going backwards in this administration's and its MAGA base bedevilment of what our citizenry, and the world by extension, has come to respect and love about the U.S.A.: It's stability. But, let me be clear:

I do not hate my country.

We are all talking about the 'shakiness' of the foundation of the county at this point and time. As we are shocked to realize that millions of our citizens want to turn back the clock by having this country effectively become isolationist , ' ingrown ,' and turning on itself .

The beauty of our country is its diversity. We have a 'proper' mix of intellect stemming from our open door policy which allows bright minds and diversification of developing and dealing with world-class problems -solutions. And, we have a so-called leader who wants to dismantle all that we love about ourselves as a nation of many people striving to become 'one' people . . . for profit as its own reward. . . national arrogance, and caustic belligerence.

I can not recall a time in my life that I have actually felt so 'down' on the U.S.A, or afraid for her future ranking in the world order. 'Everything' about our direction and place in the world is up for review and that is truly remarkably dangerous.

 
 
 
Thomas
Professor Guide
4.5.2  Thomas  replied to  CB @4.5.1    last year

Hey, man. It'll be alright

 
 
 
CB
Professor Guide
4.5.3  CB  replied to  Thomas @4.5.2    last year

Sir, that is one of my all-time favorite songs from that era of my life. A classic!

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
4.6  bugsy  replied to  Sean Treacy @4    last year

‘They are proud to be Americans only when in control’

And they are Michael Obama

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5  seeder  JohnRussell    last year
On Being Rats
posted at 22:55:01 UTC by   Tom Sullivan   via   Digby's Hullabaloo

And on being Frank

061125-Socal-Raid-PR-03.webp?fit=1024%2C683&quality=80&ssl=1 Via   CalMatters’ Pedro Rios : Neighbors confront Immigration and Customs Enforcement’s Special Response Team officers following an immigration raid at the Italian restaurant Buono Forchetta on May 30, 2025. Photo courtesy of Pedro Rios

A friend named Frank back in high school and college days had a reputation for being really blunt.

“Tom, you look like hell today. No offense,” he might say, grinning. We called it being Frank with you.

This morning’s Frank is Paul. Krugman. Bigots are back, he says bluntly.

MAGA likes that Donald Trump is blunt. Belligerent and bigoted, too. Trump grew up knowing his family’s wealth meant he could get away with doing or saying virtually anything and incur no consequences. He could shoot someone “in the middle of Fifth Avenue” and get away with it, he said himself. For the MAGA world, that feels like a superpower akin to being able to fly or bend steel. It’s a power they feel vicariously by touching the hem of his garment. For people who never evolved beyond race hatreds passed down from their parents, Trump freed them to express their darkest impulses without social opprobrium, at least within their own social circles.

Krugman   writes :

Scott Bessent, the Treasury secretary,  declared  that New York is about to turn into “Caracas on the Hudson.”

And Sen. Tommy Tuberville of Alabama basically declared New York’s voters subhuman,  saying :

These inner-city rats, they live off the federal government. And that’s one reason we’re $37 trillion in debt. And it’s time we find these rats and we send them back home, that are living off the American taxpayers that are working very hard every week to pay taxes.

These reactions are vile, and they’re also dishonest. Whatever these men may claim, it’s all about bigotry.

While Tuberville looks like “an ignorant fool” even within a caucus filled with them, “his willingness to use dehumanizing language about millions of people shows that raw racism is rapidly becoming mainstream in American politics.”

Krugman continues:

Remember, during the campaign both Trump and JD Vance amplified the slanders about  Haitians eating pets .

And now that they’re in office, you can see the resurgence of raw racism all across Trump administration policies, large and small. You can see it, for example, in the cuts at the National Institutes of Health, which are so  tilted against racial minorities  that a federal judge — one appointed by Ronald Reagan! — declared

I’ve never seen a record where racial discrimination was so palpable. I’ve sat on this bench now for 40 years. I’ve never seen government racial discrimination like this.

You can see it in the renaming of military bases after Confederate generals — that is, traitors who fought for slavery.

You can even see it in a change in the military’s  shaving policy  that is clearly custom-designed to drive Black men — who account for around a quarter of the Army’s new recruits — out of the service.

So racism and bigotry are back, big time. Who’s safe? Nobody.

The U.S. Supreme Court just allowed Trump to violate the 14th Amendment’s guarantee of birthright citizenship until everyone stripped of theirs (it will be selective, naturally) litigates their cases in court. Legal resident status is meaningless now. Citizenship is meaningless now. I am a U.S. citizen by birth until Trump decides I am not and makes me defend it in court.

Should Trump’s bigly bill pass into law, it will massively increase funding for ICE brute squads to harrass Americans at random. Just because their focus now is on nonwhites is no consolation.

Krugman reflects:

I personally don’t have any illusions of safety. Yes, I’m a native-born white citizen. But my wife and her family are Black, and some of my friends and relatives are foreign-born U.S. citizens. Furthermore, I’m Jewish, and anyone who knows their history realizes that whenever right-wing bigotry is on the ascendant, we’re always next in line. Are there really people out there naïve enough to believe MAGA’s claims to be  against  antisemitism, who can’t see the transparent cynicism and dishonesty?

He concludes, “Everyone who cares about keeping America America needs to take a stand against the resurgence of bigotry. Because the truth is that we’re all rats now.”

Let’s be Frank. Trump and his MAGA movement feel empowered to act like exterminators. If not stopped it could be just a matter of time.

MAGA is Kryptonite to freedom. Yet, America has strong democratic traditions, a friend reminds me, and individualist ones. That’s our superpower. The crowds surrounding swarming ICE thugs who arrive to disappear neighbors aren’t just saying no, but hell no. Silence gives the bigots license. Don’t be silent. We should be Frank about who they are and what they’re doing to this country.

* * * * *

Have you fought dictatorship today?

 
 
 
Eat The Press Do Not Read It
Professor Participates
5.1  Eat The Press Do Not Read It  replied to  JohnRussell @5    last year

TRUMP wants to be a "DICTATOR"!  Beware, he is halfway there. He is a "DICK", and likes "Taters", according to my "sauces", Ghouliani and Steve Bunnions, "The Man Who NEVER BATHED"!

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
6  seeder  JohnRussell    last year

www.theatlantic.com   /newsletters/archive/2025/06/trump-insults-americaagain/683384/

Trump Insults America—Again

Tom Nichols

Oops, he did it again.

On Sunday, President Donald Trump had a rambling   conversation   with the Fox Business host Maria Bartiromo. It was a typical Trump performance: He leaned into his trademark edge-of-the-chair crouch and spooled off long strings of words that were only sometimes on topic or related to one another. (“They call it ‘magnets,’” he helpfully informed Bartimoro at one point when she asked about rare-earth minerals.) But when it came to China, Trump returned to one of his favorite themes: moral equivalence between the United States and authoritarian regimes.

Bartiromo noted that authorities recently arrested some   Chinese nationals   accused of smuggling in biological materials that could threaten the U.S. food supply. “We don’t know where that came from,” Trump said, waving away the arrests as possibly nothing more than the apprehension of a few “whackos.” Bartiromo pressed on: The Chinese have hacked “into our telecom system; they’ve been stealing intellectual property; fentanyl, COVID, I mean, you know, all of this stuff, so how do you negotiate with obviously a bad actor and trust them on economics?”

And then Trump went for it. “You don’t think we do that to them?” he said with a smirk. “You don’t think we do that to them?” he repeated as Bartiromo struggled during a few seconds of silence. “We do,” the president said. “We do a lot of things.”

“So,” Bartiromo asked, “that’s the way the world works?” Trump shrugged. “That’s the way the world works. It’s a nasty world.”

As a card-carrying expert who taught international relations for more than three decades, I can affirm the president’s assertion that we do, in fact, live in a nasty world. But as a patriotic American, I have a bit more trouble with the idea that the United States of America and the People’s Republic of China are just two bad kids on the playground.

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In my many travels to university campuses over the years, I have often heard that America is only one of many horrendous regimes in the world. Usually these pronouncements came from students trying out new intellectual clothes in the safety of an American classroom, or from radicals on the faculty for whom anti-Americanism was a central part of their academic credo. And I know, especially from studying the Cold War, that presidents in my lifetime did a lot of shady, immoral, and illegal things. But I have never heard a president of the United States sound like a graduate student who’s woozy from imbibing too much Noam Chomsky or Howard Zinn.

This isn’t the first time that Trump has resorted to this kind of embarrassing equivocation. In early 2017, then–Fox host Bill O’Reilly asked Trump about   U.S. relations with Russia   and how he might get along with Russian President Vladimir Putin. “He’s a killer,” O’Reilly said. “Putin’s a killer.”

Trump bristled—and rose to Putin’s defense. “There are a lot of killers,” Trump said, with the same kind of half-smiling smirk he deployed at Bartiromo. “We’ve got a lot of killers. What do you think? Our country’s so innocent?”

Of course, Trump’s only consistent foreign-policy principle during the past 10 years has been to   side with Russia   whenever possible. But leaving aside his obsession with Putin, the president’s smears on his own country are not the result of a deeply considered moral position, or even some kind of strategic big-think. Principles are inconvenient, and if they get in the way of winning the moment—the news cycle, a trade negotiation, an argument with a reporter—then they are of no use.

Indeed, Trump has shown, over and over, that he has no real ability to make moral distinctions about anything. Perhaps nothing illustrates this vacuousness more than Bob Woodward’s   report   that when Trump decided to run for president, an aide told him that his previous pro-choice stances and donations to Democrats would be a problem. “That can be fixed,” Trump said. “I’m—what do you call it? Pro-life.” As Groucho Marx is rumored to have said: “Those are my principles, and if you don’t like them … well, I have others.”

But there is also a laziness in Trump’s casual slanders against America. If Trump admits that the United States is a far better nation than Russia or China, with a heritage of liberty and democracy that imposes unique responsibilities on America as the leader of the free world, then he would have to   do   something. He would have to take a stand against Russia’s military aggression and China’s economic predations. He’d have to take the hard path of working with a national-security team to forge policies that are in the long-term interests of the United States rather than the short-term interests of Donald Trump.

Likewise, when Trump depicts America as an unending nightmare of crime and carnage, he’s not only trying to trigger a cortisol rush among his followers; he’s also creating a narrative of despair. It’s a clever approach. He tells Americans that because the world is nasty, all that “shining city on a hill” talk is just stupid and all that matters is   making some deals   to get them stuff they need. Meanwhile, he paints America as something out of a medieval woodcut of hell, implicitly warning that he can’t really extinguish the lava and the fires but promising to at least put on a show of punishing some of the demons.

This nihilism and helplessness is poisonous to a democracy, a system that only works when citizens take responsibility for their government. It is a narrative that encourages citizens to think of themselves as both scoundrels and victims, crabs in life’s giant bucket who must claw their way up over the backs of their fellow Americans. The modern global order itself—a system of peace, trade, and security built by the genius of American diplomacy and the sacrifices of the American armed forces—is, in Trump’s view, one big criminal struggle among countries that are no better than mob families. In his world, the United States isn’t a leader or an example; it’s just another mook throwing dice against the wall in a back alley.

Some people support Trump because they want certain policies on immigration or taxes or judges. Others enjoy his reality-TV approach to politics. Some of his critics reject his plans; others reject everything about the man and his character. But none of us, as Americans, have to accept Trump’s calumnies about the United States. We are a nation better than the dictatorships in Moscow and Beijing; we enjoy peace and prosperity that predated Trump and will remain when he is gone.

We live in an America governed by Trump. But we do not have to accept that we live in Trump’s America.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
7  Bob Nelson    last year

original

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
7.1  bugsy  replied to  Bob Nelson @7    last year

Did

you post this picture when the ‘deporter in chief’ deported a record number of illegals by using ICE to do it?

I wonder why you didn’t s/

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
7.1.1  Bob Nelson  replied to  bugsy @7.1    last year

... because MAGAs were all over the media, defending the deportees' rights... 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
7.1.2  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Bob Nelson @7.1.1    last year

Trump said yesterday he would like to deport native born citizens who are "bad people". 

He isnt even allowed to deport the next Jeffery Dahmer. 

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
7.1.3  bugsy  replied to  Bob Nelson @7.1.1    last year

They were? You have verifiable proof of this?

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
7.1.4  Bob Nelson  replied to  bugsy @7.1.3    last year

Of course.

But I certainly won't just give it away. Much too precious. 

 
 
 
Eat The Press Do Not Read It
Professor Participates
7.1.5  Eat The Press Do Not Read It  replied to  JohnRussell @7.1.2    last year

Donnie should start with his wife, Melonoma.

 
 
 
Eat The Press Do Not Read It
Professor Participates
7.1.6  Eat The Press Do Not Read It  replied to  bugsy @7.1.3    last year

Donnie and the MAGA LOONY TUNES never have proof about anything. They make SHAT UP!

 
 
 
George
PhD Expert
7.2  George  replied to  Bob Nelson @7    last year

Your emblem misspelled DNC they only got the "C" right, but in the wrong place. You know, the party the courts and embraces the antisemitic racists.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
7.2.1  Bob Nelson  replied to  George @7.2    last year

Dyslexic?

 
 
 
Eat The Press Do Not Read It
Professor Participates
8  Eat The Press Do Not Read It    last year

I dated DYSLEX. She got everything backward. It was a nightmare on Elm Street.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
9  Vic Eldred    last year

"Only 36 percent of Democrats report being very or extremely proud to be an American"

NO SURPRISE THERE!

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
9.1  Sparty On  replied to  Vic Eldred @9    last year

One helluva angry lot there.    Always pissed off about this, that or the other thing.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
9.1.1  Vic Eldred  replied to  Sparty On @9.1    last year

I'm guessing the last time they were happy was during the 2020 riots. How did Tim Walz's wife put it? She loved the smell of burning rubber?

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
9.1.2  Sparty On  replied to  Vic Eldred @9.1.1    last year

I wonder how she would like it if it were her car tires burning.

jrSmiley_9_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
9.2  Bob Nelson  replied to  Vic Eldred @9    last year

There's no reason to be proud of America at this moment. There are many reasons to be ashamed.

"Being proud" without good reason is just mindless chauvinism.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
9.2.1  Vic Eldred  replied to  Bob Nelson @9.2    last year
There's no reason to be proud of America at this moment.

What do you mean at this moment?

When were you proud of America ?????

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
9.2.2  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @9.2.1    last year

Discerning people know Trump is a malevolent clown.  Its hard to be proud of the fact that your country is led by a malevolent clown. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
9.2.3  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @9.2.2    last year
Discerning people

As is evidenced daily on this site.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
9.2.4  Bob Nelson  replied to  Vic Eldred @9.2.1    last year

I am a US Army combat veteran. You? 

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
9.2.5  Trout Giggles  replied to  Bob Nelson @9.2.4    last year

he stayed home

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
9.2.6  Sparty On  replied to  Bob Nelson @9.2    last year

[✘]

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
9.2.7  Sparty On  replied to  Bob Nelson @9.2.4    last year

[deleted][✘]

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Quiet
9.2.8  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Bob Nelson @9.2    last year
There's no reason to be proud of America at this moment.

I disagree. There are many reasons to be proud of America, even at this moment, starting with the fact that over half our nation refused to vote for the vilest convicted felon and admitted sexual predator that any party has ever put forth as a candidate for President. I'm proud of those who stood firm against a bully like Trump and his violent bully brigade who support him. Sure, there were just less than half who did vote for him, which was enough to secure the Presidency, but the majority of Americans can't stand the scum bag in the oval office, and that makes me proud.

I'm proud of what America has done to help our allies, I'm proud that we had, up until recently, been standing up to Putin and helping our ally in Ukraine fight rightwing fascism. Sure, that same less than half scum bags want exactly the opposite. They seem to want to support and defend Putin and rightwing fascism because it's apparently very close to their own rightwing conservative fascism. But I'm still proud of the majority of Americans who hate fascism with a passion.

I'm proud of those standing up for their rights over their own body, who refuse to accept the rightwing fascist crackdown on liberty that rightwing conservatives are trying to push through in their States as they try to force their religious beliefs on abortion into law.

I'm proud of those who refuse to just kneel to the knuckle-dragging religious bigots by standing proud as members of the lgtbq community who shouldn't have to hide who they are to be proud Americans. 

I'm also proud of our men and women who tirelessly defend our freedoms day and night and are not allowing themselves to be divided along party lines, they defend all Americans regardless of whether they admit they support a convicted felon and accused child rapist or not.

Of course, I'm not proud of the religious conservatives who vilify immigrants, who attack women's rights because they believe their invisible wizard in the sky doesn't like it when women take control over their own bodies, who attack and vilify those of the lgtbq community or those who aggressively push back against the suggestion that black lives might actually matter. I'm not proud of the scum bags who support the incestual-Pedophile-in-chief who said he'd probably be dating his daughter if he wasn't her father and was accused of raping a 13-year-old. No one would be proud of those scum bags or their fucking useless piece of shit for brains President, but I'm very proud of the rest of America for putting up with them for so long.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
9.2.9  Vic Eldred  replied to  Bob Nelson @9.2.4    last year

[deleted][✘]

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
9.2.10  Bob Nelson  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @9.2.8    last year

There's no reason to be proud of America at this moment.

America has done many fine things. America in now doing lots of stupid and / or evil things. 

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
9.2.11  Sparty On  replied to  Bob Nelson @9.2.10    last year

Opinions do vary.     Mine is that yours is out there.      Way out there.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
9.2.12  Sparty On  replied to  Sparty On @9.2.7    last year

[✘]

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
10  Bob Nelson    last year

It's fascinating: fascists make no effort at all to respond to a Comment they disagree with; they simply attack the person who makes the Comment.

From Trump all the way down to our local fascists, there are no ideas, nothing positive. There's just a desire to destroy. Disagreement deserves condemnation, not response.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
10.1  Sparty On  replied to  Bob Nelson @10    last year

What’s fascinating to me is how some use of the term fascist.

Fascinating as hell.

 
 
 
Hallux
Professor Principal
10.1.1  Hallux  replied to  Sparty On @10.1    last year

All sides have their over-the-top descriptives ... none are fascinating.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
10.1.2  Sparty On  replied to  Hallux @10.1.1    last year

Only to the dull minded.    It is fascinating to see how many folks these days don’t have the slightest idea what a fascist really is.     Likely a simple failure of public school systems ….

 
 
 
Hallux
Professor Principal
10.1.3  Hallux  replied to  Sparty On @10.1.2    last year

Then educate us, or are those who 'know' too dull minded to do so and prefer to just troll?

 
 

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