The "Trump Is Just A Symptom" Plague On Our Nation
The more we spiral down, the more apologists for MAGA extremism try to tell us that is not Trumps FAULT. By this nonsensical view he is just a mirror held up to reveal the dastardly effect of "leftism". If only liberals had stopped bitching about racism, misogyny, xenophobia, corporate greed, Christian nationalism, and environmental destruction , Donald Trump would have never came to be. Its all the lefts fault. Yes Trump is a liar, thief , sexual molester, dumbass, and visibly mentally ill, but its all the liberals fault. Its not the Trump voters fault, THEY HAD NO CHOICE.
In the early part of 2024 they could have chosen Nikki Haley, a run of the mill traditional conservative , but someone who would have espoused many of the values MAGA claims to hold. But that wasnt good enough. They need Trump in charge, because he tries to punish the other side and Haley probably wouldnt look at it that way.
Trump is a symptom alright, he is a symptom of the emergence of extremism on the political right. Trumps key White House adviser Stephen Miller has, from day one , been compared to a Nazi, because he reminds people of one. One doesnt have to imagine why that is, you just have to watch him speak. The Secretary Of Defense is a member of a Christian nationalist church with a pastor that likes tweets saying women should not be allowed to vote. ( Women voting goes against the "biblical" principle of the man dominating the relationship , dontcha know?) . There are GOP congressman who openly say Trump should be allowed to do whatever he wants (see Andy Ogles).
How pathetic do you have to be to say that you support a piece of trash like Donald Trump because you had no choice?
I saw Trump on tv today, during an oval office get together where he was supposed to be talking about peace in Ukraine, but the slavish right wing media hacks in the room gave him the room to talk about things like his military intervention into Washington DC, and Trump bragged that he had ended the crime spree there and made the city safe for ..... who exactly? News reports say that the National Guard is patrolling the tourist areas and thats it. These are areas that were already considered safe. They havent been seen in the high crime areas away from the governmental center. Trump said restaurant attendance is booming though.
www.salon.com /2025/08/15/trumps-american-hell-is-everywhere/
Trump's "American Hell" is everywhere
Brian Karem 16-20 minutes 8/15/2025
commentary
His declining reality show mentality is destroying the fabric of our nation — and the press is complicit
White House columnist
Published August 15, 2025 9:00AM (EDT)
President Donald Trump, flanked by Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth and Attorney General Pam Bondi, announces his takeover of Washington, D.C. on Aug. 11, 2025. (ANDREW CABALLERO-REYNOLDS/AFP via Getty Images)
There is shocking entertainment news out of Hollywood today.
The reality show powerhouse American Hell is now the highest-rated network across every platform. In a press conference from the White House Brady Briefing Room, producers attributed the network’s rising popularity to its virtues of fear, anger, greed, consumption, corruption and dysentery, which are favorably preached at “thousands of the right kind of churches across the country.”
While widely divisive, American Hell is popular because the ratings prove that its three reality shows have something for everybody. Laugh or cry, the programs are both highly addictive and self-destructive. The ratings winner, of course, is “King POTUS (White) Power Hour,” a moving feast of strange oddities featuring an aging actor as the president whose catchphrase is “You’re Fired” and whose cold open is “ Rest in Peace ,” the Undertaker’s theme song from World Wrestling Entertainment.
POTUS is the ultimate front man — a convicted felon who still looks like a star but is really out on parole. He dictates his demands and desires to the world via Truth Social, ending each edition of his personal newsletter with “Thank you for your attention to this matter,” as if he’s a bill collector or a repo man. Well, he was allegedly a slumlord.
POTUS loves to dance to that theme. He shakes his fists and jerks his legs in a manner suggesting a rare uncontrollable muscle spasm induced by a live electric wire arbitrarily applied to the spinal column. As he dances, he sings in his best Kid Rock voice, “mandate,” “landslide,” and “this war never would have begun if I had been here,” almost as often as he tells us how much he knows about real estate, while explaining things that have never been heard or “seen before.” POTUS is the ultimate front man — a convicted felon who still looks like a star but is really out on parole. He dictates his demands and desires to the world via Truth Social , ending each edition of his personal newsletter with “Thank you for your attention to this matter,” as if he’s a bill collector or a repo man. Well, he was allegedly a slumlord . Any fact he doesn’t agree with is “wrong” and anybody who doesn’t agree with him is his enemy until they agree to work for him.
If this show gets boring, then just tune into the “Dysfunctional Congressional Circus” comedy variety show. True, it’s often in reruns while the cast routinely takes long breaks to ingest more public money — and it has lost most of its audience . Poor casting and writing has plagued this television show for years. Currently it is run, in part, by Michael “My Smirk Defines Me” Johnson and John “Mr. Green Jeans” Thune. Each week the erstwhile pair square off in a high-budget, but low-brow and low-production-value drama against Chuck “Nasty Letter” Schumer, whose pastimes include writing angry letters in cursive to his neighbor kids who keep playing on his massive, rolling lawn. His partner in good intentions is Hakeem “I’m Ready” Jeffries, who doesn’t want to drift away. He anticipates he’ll be the next ringmaster. He’s ready for primetime.
It’s been less than four years since the Democrats and Republicans reached a consensus on a major piece of legislation: The Bipartisan Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, which was signed into law on November 15, 2021 . That was the last time we saw the bare minimum the government could do when people work together. Today, this act of good government stewardship is disparaged, forgotten or ignored so Congress can stage low-brow comedy. The entire GOP has relegated itself to a walk-on role in their own show, and they are too busy trying to pick their own voters to actually care. After all, they got to make their nut. They need a sizable guaranteed income, great health care and a comfortable living until they freeze in a blank stare and drool from a podium in the Dirksen Senate Office Building.
The final offering in American Hell’s reality show lineup is “Jeopardy,” that old family-friendly and favorite game show. Today it’s hosted by the nine members of the Supreme Court . In this version, it costs you money to play for better rights, and the questions constantly change as do the answers — all with little regard to established law while paying as much attention to the Constitution as POTUS does to his daily briefings. On occasion those offering a majority opinion screech like howler monkeys . Ooooh. What a scorcher. It’s natural selection on a whole new level.
The main cast members on all three reality shows are clowns, morons, failed jocks, lawyers, doctors, perverts, criminals, pimps and thieves. It’s no wonder “ South Park ” was able to skewer the government so easily. The people representing us are walking cartoons.
Now, let’s divorce ourselves from fiction. President Donald Trump is trying to avoid reality — and no matter how long he tries to put it off, he — and more importantly we — cannot avoid the inevitable. Outlandish claims and actions have real consequences. But neither this administration, nor the press pool covering Trump, are dealing with reality.
This week the president seized power in the District of Columbia by activating the D.C. National Guard and deploying 800 troops to help police the city’s streets. He also assumed control of the Metropolitan Police Department, which he is allowed to do for 30 days without congressional approval under the Home Rule Act of 1973 . Trump claimed in front of reporters this week he doesn’t need congressional approval if he declares a national emergency, and while he hasn’t done so yet, that’s still on the table. The FBI and DEA have also dispatched agents to patrol the streets at night. (I wonder who’s paying that overtime?) On Thursday night, Attorney General Pam Bondi rescinded the police department’s restrictions in aiding Immigration and Customs Enforcement officers and ordered D.C. Mayor Muriel Bowser to recognize Terrance C. Cole, the head of the Drug Enforcement Administration, as the city’s “emergency police commissioner.” D.C. Attorney General Brian Schwalb responded today by suing the Trump administration for what he called its “unlawful actions.”
Reports say Trump is also threatening to assemble a squad of 600 National Guard troops to be ready at a moment’s notice to put down civil unrest elsewhere in the country.
We have not seen this type of autocratic behavior since a king ruled our country and colonists staged a revolt against high tea tariffs.
When he announced his takeover of D.C. on Monday in the Brady Briefing Room, Trump claimed that Democrats love high crime while he loves safety. Apparently Trump has never heard of, or doesn’t understand, Benjamin Franklin’s words about sacrificing liberty for safety. You end up with neither. Even if he understood, he wouldn’t care. He then told everyone that the U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia Jeanine Pirro had been a great district attorney. According to Trump she was so great “she went into show business.” He said it as if it were a compliment.
Everything Trump does is filtered through the lens of a self-congratulatory camera.
The United States in which I was born would never settle for this. Republicans , led by party elder GOP Sen. Barry Goldwater of Arizona, ran Richard Nixon out of office after he lied to cover up the Watergate break-in. You know, when Republicans tried to bug Democratic National Committee Headquarters. How quaint such a notion seems today. Donald Trump is a convicted felon whose list of criminal accomplishments would make your average Mafia Don blush in envy. But Republicans in Congress worship him. There is no Goldwater among them. The best they can muster is a catatonic Kentucky Sen. Mitch McConnell.
Before lunch on Wednesday, Trump appeared at the John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts to announce his personal picks for the memorial’s annual performing arts honorees. “They all passed through me,” he told us. He sounded like a roofing contractor introducing his favorite Hollywood acts. For some reason he even felt the need to discuss the quality of the asphalt and paving near the center. That was before he said he’d be hosting the televised broadcast of the awards show. Because, you know, he’s got nothing better to do — and since he never got a Kennedy Center Honor, he plans on giving himself one.
“He is off the rails,” a member of the press pool in attendance at the Kennedy Center told me. “Half of what he said didn’t even make sense.”
Trump talked about asphalt, painting and refurbishing the seats at the center, along with real estate, and often in the same sentence. He conceded Russia might have hacked into some of our government databases. But guess what? He said we also do it, and do it better than Russia. Which countries? When? No one asked, and Trump was on to something else. He said people should stop calling him a dictator and should “join him.” He finished off one question by talking about how more people watched his show “The Apprentice” than watched the Academy Awards telecast.
This is just the latest oversized, well-lit and highlighted warning that Trump’s bridge is out. His mental decline is precipitous, undeniable and dangerous. But if you’re expecting the press to hold him accountable, forget it. We’re lost.
A lot of the responsibility for the continued lack of coverage belongs to the White House PR department. They are prevalent in the Brady Briefing Room these days, masquerading as reporters, but their sole function is to produce and distribute low grade, repetitious Trump-friendly drivel to be consumed by the masses. You can easily identify them when Trump says “good question” to whatever it is they ask. They offer few facts, but they present Trump’s opinion and deliver it with little imagination. It is the journalistic equivalent of processed cheese without the appeal of Velveeta — somewhere between cardboard and cat vomit.
There are armed conflicts across the planet where innocent people are dying. Genocide is a real concern, as is starvation, disease and torture. And Donald Trump is talking about asphalt while prepping to host the Kennedy Center Honors. Gosh. I hope his makeup looks good.
The danger of ignoring reality is becoming increasingly menacing and serious. There are armed conflicts across the planet where innocent people are dying. Genocide is a real concern, as is starvation , disease and torture. And Donald Trump is talking about asphalt while prepping to host the Kennedy Center Honors. Gosh. I hope his makeup looks good.
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There are democracies, like Ukraine, struggling to survive. We face existential threats from the environment, our technology, asteroids in space, Russia, China, Ukraine, Israel, Gaza and pollution, and we have to make choices every day that can and do have real consequences on all of those very serious issues. Trump is not a serious person. He has other concerns, like wanting to review exhibits at the Smithsonian to make sure they align with his oddly unique interpretation of American History.
Those who deny reality often pay for it — but others always pay first.
This week, a reporting crew from Al Jazeera died in a tent outside of a hospital in Gaza City after the Israeli military fired on them because it was claimed, with no facts to support the accusation, that one of the reporters was actually an embedded terrorist . The accusation is laughable. Terrorist leaders don’t hide in plain sight on television, where they do their side gig. They hide in tunnels and underneath schools, using innocent civilians as human shields.
The Committee to Protect Journalists denounced the accusations and accused the Israeli military of murder with the intention of silencing one of the few remaining independent voices documenting the ongoing horror in Gaza. The only difference between what Israel did and what Trump does to the press is one of degree. The goal is the same: Limiting access to facts in order to hide reality. Trump apparently just prefers entertainment to torture and murder. But he also probably wouldn’t say “no” to torture and murder if he had to — and his followers would nod in agreement if he did.
On Tuesday in the Brady Briefing Room, while his faithful lieutenants looked on, the president of the United States told us Washington D.C. resembled something out of what I’ve been told is one of his favorite movies: “Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome.” Just kidding. I always took him for a “Porky’s” kind of guy. “Our capital city has been overcome by violent gangs and blood thirsty criminals, roving mobs of wild youths, drugged out maniacs and homeless people…that rampage through city streets,” he said of the situation in D.C.
Talk about laying it on thick. I’ve been to high school football games that are more dangerous than what you see in most of D.C. — even late at night when the political vampires roam the dark alleys of Georgetown.
But, according to Trump, D.C. rivals a war zone. “My father always used to tell me…’Son, when you walk into a restaurant & you see a dirty front door, don’t go in. Because if the front door is dirty, the kitchen is dirty also.’…If our capital is dirty, our whole country is dirty.”
Trump is the source of that dirt, and no matter how he tries to spin it, or to pretend he’s in a reality television show, he cannot run away from the fact that he’s responsible for this — and because of his encroaching mental erosion, it’s doubtful he’ll ever understand that fact.
But the minions who hold his leash do. Ultimately they will be the ones to pay the price for Trump’s American Hell.
Ten years from now after the dust settles, if it does, there will be Republicans who will deny Don ever existed — or they will claim to have been secretly fighting him the entire time they worked for him. The reality show reporters will be at different gigs, never once understanding how they made all of Trump’s mayhem possible.
And Jake Tapper will be promoting his new book “American Hell,” which will be available in the fiction department on Amazon.
It’s amazing to me how democrats can spend the last twenty do everything they accuse trump of, call every milquetoast republican a Nazi and not expect their own tactics would be used against them. I know they struggle with the concept of second order effects, but causing a trump like reaction with those tactics is the most predictable thing ever, Republicans weren’t going to just keep being punching bags foreve and be the only ones playing by the rules.
You have become a one trick pony.
No point in changing the play if you can't stop it.
Um... Is this satire???
Nope, just a Pavlovian response to triggered stimuli.
You are just a Pavlovian response by far-right wing fascists like Hitler had.
Keep up that “fresh” original work!
You're not a fan of racism, misogyny, xenophobia, corporate greed, Christian nationalism, and environmental destruction, are you?
Wow!!! You've illustrated how the Left operates perfectly. By not adopting your narrative as truth, I'm automatically those things. Nothing to do with actual facts. That's why you guys just go with the labels. Because nobody wants to be labeled as those things, you hope to get us to adopt your narrative out of self-preservation. Nice.
Why would you call this article "satire"? It is quite straightforward.
Are you going to deny that you excuse Donald Trump by saying (fill in the blank about "the left") ?
Straightforward. Right. Explains why telling you why this seed seems like satire would be fruitless.
Another reason why trying to answer this question would be fruitless. I haven't "excused" Trump of anything, let alone by (fill in the blank by "the left"). What? Are you suggesting that, because of your view of Trump, the left cannot be wrong? Or, asked a different way, because "Trump!", anything the left does is righteous? Trump is some sort of blank check for the left?
John, exactly what has Trump done to make us an authoritarian state.
Here are some facts that blow away your little article
1. We still have a free media, as biased as it is. If Trump were a true authoritarian, he would have banished left wing media and stated his own media was the only media
2. You would not be able to post negative things, true or not, about him on any site as those sites would be banned. (Ask Buzz about that).
3. We would no longer have a Congress as he would have abolished it on the day he took office.
Leftists need to take a good deep breath and be thankful we made it past the last 4 years with a make believe president and a DEI VP.
A good question for those who are not paying attention.
I worked with ChatGPT to assemble a list of authoritarian actions. This list is limited to 2025, but ChatGPT has provided an extensive summary (not included since it is lengthy), including Trump's first term.
Per ChatGPT, based on my detailed prompt asking for authoritarian-style actions and providing examples of same for precision:
MAGA's response to such list is almost always "was it illegal"? Trump has spent his entire life avoiding legal responsibility for unethical behavior, and I think some of his fans admire that about him.
And when it is illegal they demand proof (a guilty verdict from a trial). It is partisan denial in its most pure form.
Lol. where did they hear that from I wonder?
Well, since YOU brought it up, what exactly has he done that was illegal.
Since your question is not sincere, I will just quote ChatGPT given you will likely not even read the response:
Because he's nicer than he should be.
You guys.
Why does it always have to be "you guys"?
This 'the Left' stereotype is silly. Do you really think that everyone to your left operates the same way? And do you really think you personally were being accused of being all those things?
Labeling, when actually done, is not a 'the Left' thing. It is one of the unfortunate natural behaviors of human beings.
Further, this use of 'the Left' is a language clue that indicates the author is operating from a stereotype rather than dealing with the facts themselves. The notion that all of this imagined group operate the same way almost proves stereotype-based thinking.
No more than stereotypes being relentlessly pushed by liberals here like MAGA.
Ridiculous.
MAGA is an accurate synonym for Trump supporters. It is, after all, the name of the Trump movement.
Why would a Trump supporter not accept the fact that they are by definition part of MAGA?
If one is embarrassed to be MAGA then maybe one should reevaluate their support for Trump.
[deleted][✘]
And so is TDS for Trump haters and yet TDS gets removed.
You see anything wrong with that?
Embarrassingly hypocritical to most casual of readers imo.
TDS applies to those who support Trump as PotUS. Rational thought applies to those who find Trump unfit for the office as evidenced by his words and deeds.
No it doesn’t. TDS applies to those with a deranged view of Trump. Now some are trying to apply NDS in the same manner with Newsom. If one is unacceptable here. Both should be unacceptable here.
Period.
It certainly is not 'deranged' or 'irrational' to criticize Trump since he continually acts and speaks in ways that demand criticism (by anyone who can think objectively).
The derangement, if any, would by supporting Trump no matter what he does.
The TDS moniker fits many of the left like a glove.
From day one and exasperated later by people like Hillary pushing a “resist” movement immediately after she got her ass beat. It was a mass embarrassment for the folks who gave Trump no chance to win. And there was a lot of them. And not only on the “liberal” side. Some of the worst were the never Trumpers on the right.
So yeah, TDS fits them like a glove and it never stopped.
Trying to rationalize that NDS is somehow okay and TDS isn’t, is possibly the worst case of attempted gaslighting in recent memory.
IMO, anyone who supports Trump as PotUS still, after all he has done and continues to do, has zero foundation to even imply anyone else is deranged.
No surprise there.
Interestingly, that opinion simply adds to empirical data which proves the existence of TDS.
It's more like some sick comedy that never ends.... like one of those dreams where you can't find what you're looking for nor figure ot where you're going
LOL
Far right wing fascism only leads to insanity.
I'm curious to see how you are going to defend this
Let me quote Trump
"We are now the only country in the world that uses mail-in voting".
-
copilot
🌍 Countries That Allow All Voters to Vote by Mail
These nations offer universal access to mail-in ballots:
Canada
Germany
South Korea
Switzerland
New Zealand
Australia
Finland
Estonia
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Netherlands
United Kingdom
Why doesnt it bother the decent MAGA that Trump can lie so easily and constantly ?
✉️ Countries That Allow Some Voters to Vote by Mail
These countries restrict mail-in voting to certain groups (e.g., overseas citizens, military personnel, disabled voters, or those in remote areas):
India
Indonesia
Sri Lanka
France
Italy
Spain
Japan
Russia
Mexico
Brazil
South Africa
Philippines
Thailand
Argentina
Chile
Norway
Denmark
Belgium
Austria
Czech Republic
Poland
They don't care what Trump does. They don't care what a massive dumpster fire he's making of our nation, these conservative simps are content to just sit back in their lawn chairs and watch it all burn. Pointing out Trumps lies to his faithful is like pointing out the grains of sand at the beach, they're just too numerous to even be able to focus on one which is why none of them carry any weight with his sycophants.
I'm curious to see how you explain my needing to.
Truly and seriously John, ask the same question but insert Obama and Biden where you have placed Trump's name.
How can/could have any decent opposing members in the political world allow those two to lie so much that their lies placed our country in such jeopardy?
And they did it so flagrantly with immunity.
Neither of them lie like Trump. End of story.
Today Trump said with a straight face that no other country allows mail in ballots. That is a lie. How can you defend this crap? By the way, he lies like that every day of his life.
We now have a lot of people in this country who believe we are the only country on earth that allows mail in ballots, because they are in a cult that believes everything Trump says.
Because you are a Trump defender, but if you feel it is indefensible, then fine.
Well, you are right, but people like Drakkonis downplay it out of one side of their mouth and out the other side of their mouth they say it doesnt matter.
Nothing matters to these people unless it is something anti-woke or whatever.
I approve of the steps Trump is attempting to do to make things better for the majority of Americans of every color and creed. It's just common sense. You never come and say what he does that is misguided or wrong, focusing only on what he says, day after day, like a broken record. Millions of Americans agree with my assessment.
At the rate the leftists are committing political suicide, they may never regain any kind of power again. The patriotic progressives should be channeling their efforts towards reforming their philosophy and cleaning up their image and message. They are on the wrong side of just about every issue. If all the states adopted a mail in ballot system like we have here in Colorado. it would work just out fine...it's pretty much foolproof.
This whole seed sounds like a continuance of my conversation earlier today on another one of your seeds. They somehow believe that Trump is allowed to do anything, as long as it harms Dems and the left.
They claim it is the Lefts policies that have brought forward and enabled Trump to do whatever the fck he wants, which is complete bullshit. Trump has been given more passes than Randy Moss and they claim it is because of the 'Left'. Pathetic is this, as the GOP owns this major FCK UP, and the 'right' who feel TRump should be excused of everything, are a very poor excuse, for decent human beings. The ignorance of so many is disturbing. This country has truly lost its way, and those who have enabled this POS POTUS can't look in the mirror, and not see the Left as the actual cause, this should make everyone take pause....
Do you understand Trump wants to take that system away from you ?
Mistake one is believing that Trump is trying to do anything other than that which pleases him personally.
Mistake two is not recognizing the damage Trump is doing to this nation.
And what have I said that defends Trump???
The voting machines are more accurate than hand ballots and quicker to tabulate the results. For one, all of those ballots have to be counted by hand. Remember the Bush vs Gore fiasco? Hanging chads ring a bell? And how long does it take to count those ballots?
He does not have the authority to ride rough shod over the states and take over the voting process. If he tries that with his EO, he should be impeached
The time comes when they not only have to defend Trump, but they feel for their own self-regard they have to defend their defense of Trump. I think we are in that phase.
A ridiculously slow creeping reality that they, sooner or later, must open their eyes to the fact that THEY, their allowing Trump to do ANYTHING and still retain their support is the reason there has been no abort, as they and their elected GOP scum, have allowed our Democracy to slowly come undone, for the guilty sheep, ewe and eye are a pun, for they need US to maintain their FUn, of how it is not they who have let this country down hard, it is those that actually critically think for themselves, the dreaded Libtards, who have ruined this country tis of thee, the former land of Liberty, and Justice for ALL, except Hands so Small, as he has proven to be above, and to he they give unfettering support and of course, young pedophile love.....
a pass,
fck that and them, Trump is the biggest threat to this country since the civil war,
a pussy grabbin, playmate datein Democracy and Rule of Law Hatin scumbag, who they have let get away with the worst violations of this nations principles and the guide rails set forth by our founders, and asz our country flounders, all their sounders, a tempt to blame the Left while, all whilst they bee the ones "left" behind, the big one in the White Power House of shame, and it's all the fault of the Left, for not running a better candidate, because when it comes to Trump, they can't admit as to who's to blame for where our country is currently headed, they created the Monster and continually Fed it, more power than was ever intended, and it appears it will be a while before this joke is ever ended, so when one has something to say, just send it, and blame it on everyone and thing except ones self, because they can't accept why our health, is degrading fast, and the reason ain't exactly stealth, it has more to do with the manipulation of reality to gather all of our Wealth, and ain't that rich, they've enabled one hell of a son of a bitch, who makes Putin twitch, asz he knows how to scratch Trumps itch, but it is of course, all the Lefts Fault, as the earthquake Trump opened up the void, that couldn't be avoided, so they appointed a new king, and now their blaming the other side for who was anointed.....
One example that illustrates this defend-Trump-no-matter-what phenomenon is prices. Trump's tariffs are, in effect, a consumption tax — a tax paid (ultimately) by consumers. This (obviously and inevitably, right?) increases the price for tariffed items (those with direct tariffs and those items produced here that rely upon tariffed components and raw materials).
In spite of that we hear the (prices are okay where I live) and (where are these big price increases?) from Trump defenders. It is as if they do not understand (or reject the fact) that tariffs increase consumer prices. Some companies will absorb the tariff tax for a while but that is temporary. And tariffs are not immediately reflected in consumer prices until pre-tariff inventory is depleted. Further, companies will engage in moves like 'right-sizing' and reduced quality to give the illusion that prices are not rising (they are very practiced in this).
The billions collected thus far from tariffs were paid by domestic companies and passed on to domestic consumers! Tariffs are never paid by trade partners and never represent money coming into the USA.
But Trump supporters keep tossing out anecdotal nuh-uhs as if the tariff-higher-prices cause-and-effect is not real.
Citation?
it's gas lighting
How is all this benefitting him personally? Your statement makes no sense
What damage are you talking about? Please be specific and detailed
Did you not see that I wrote "pleases him personally"? But this also benefits him since he can use the power of the office to engage in vindictive acts against his opponents, surround himself with opulence at the taxpayer's expense, can leverage his celebrity as PotUS to sell his crypto, shoes, bibles, etc. for personal financial gain, etc. Have you noticed any of this?
Predictably, you ask this same question and ignore my answers. Go look at your comment history and read what I have written in response to this question from you.
Trump has always lied about EVERYTHING.
Well, it’s from Salon, so, probably it is satire
Sadly no. Just the daily announcement that the sky is falling.
Only about 1300 days to go. Brace yourself.
I'm curious.... How many days will need to go by before you're willing to entertain the idea that the world isn't actually ending?
I would imagine about 1300....
Maybe....
I'm guessing at some point we'll be hearing about how the world DID, in fact, actually end and we didn't somehow didn't notice.
No doubt,...
although I'm pretty sure that's already been posted in the last couple of months by somebody...
Is it the End Of The World? No! The actual Holocaust was not the end of the world. It was the end of a lot of people's lives...
After it is over we will know the damage.
No doubt the world will go on, seriously.
The world went on after Chicxulub . The dinosaurs did not.
The world will undoubtedly go on after homo sapiens goes extinct, too...
I would imagine about 1300....
Maybe’
Yea but if Vance or another Republican is elected then the screaming at the sky will continue and the calls that that person is the next coming of Hitler, etc , etc.
Wash…..rinse…..repeat
I never said the world was ending, you are the one always using that terminology.
See this all the time ... instead of honestly engaging in rebuttal we see rebuttals of exaggerations. Basically this is a strawman tactic.
Sky is falling.... world is ending.... Whatever.
It's ridiculous hysteria, either way.
There is no "honest engagement" on a seed where moderate views are described as "a plague on our nation".
Its your words, its your opinion. Dont act like it is an accepted conclusion. It is your hyperbole.
Trump has already done great damage to the social fabric of America, and given he has only served roughly one eighth of his term, we can expect it to get worse. Whether you consider that the end of the world is up to you.
You probably need to be careful here. You seem perilously close to admitting that the Holocaust was actually worse than the Trump presidency.
You don't want to be "a plague on our nation".
Yes. I thought that's what we were doing. You know... since we're talking about "plagues" and all.
Plagues have never ended the world or caused the sky to fall. I suppose one could say it is a term a little out of the ordinary, as are "the world is ending" and "the sky is falling".
Still struggling with the concept of metaphor, I see.
Yes. Exactly. Do you see what I did there? I responded to your wildly ridiculous metaphor with another metaphor describing the ridiculousness of your metaphor.
It seemed more polite than saying "absolutely fucking insane", but since as liberal extremists seem to be a very literal bunch sometimes maybe I should have been more direct.
LOL. Whatever.
Jack we all know that you like to pen posts that connote: '"calm down children, extreme possibilities are not likely to happen".
While such posts are valid (of course extreme possibilities are unlikely), they are an obnoxious tactic when the extreme possibility is created by your exaggeration.
Don't try to bring me into another one of those dialogues.
Do we “all” know that? Really?
The last thing anyone is doing here is forcing you to respond to anything. You, like anyone else here, respond when you want to. Attempting to characterize it any other way is simply sophomoric.
He does have a history of as much.
So you've never seen anyone goaded into a response around here...?
That's rich, but the poor first responders, rushing in with blinders on their not held horses, cause off courses, are where some are sent, and for others no relent from watt heard pent can be an interesting vent, that ducts out the exhaustion of watching the biggest embarrassment to this country that the world has ever seen, but, you saw this B 4 U responded, cause your vision is keen, and hammered home is the obscene from a ball peened pen, that wrote the note that incentivised the goat to go parasailing, with a passing Eagle , cause Snoopy's Beagle plain was shot down by those in Red, ask Baron, about the wasteland land Barons' have plowed ahead for those fallen behind to be inclined to offer up another version of reality, like Kelly Ann plurality where asz she deems that there are more than one actual reality to delve in two separate directions that point to one side being led astray, and the other side not thinkng this is okay, yet it has continued since Trump entered the fray, just like his moral fabric is a frayed, so be he, as he be a child, cause like January 6th, it will be wild, when he picks peep holes that can't see despite whatt they don't nose, because they can't face, even despite their cutoof of what they nose, cause it causes one to snort, then toot out another port, as the wanna be Captain is the antithesis of Capn America, as our economy will lead to a Captain Crunch moment, and you know Trump ain't going down with the ship, he's running rough shod over what the 'right' can'tseem to see as odd, the raping and pillaging of a country being sold to the highest bidders, but Trump is just a big kidder, that shared with Epstein a whole litter, cause i guy who grabs em buy the pussy, needs a bigger box, to wrestle with his consciousness that he as of late seems to be bothering him a tad, but Putin told him, it's not the young females dirt I have, It's that damn early male in voting thing, so do away with that, and I'll show you how I got elected everytime without worrying a dime, just change the system, to what real dick tater twots grab, sheeple who can't sea how far and deep Trumps disgusting depths have US taken,
but hey, at least you weren't goaded inn to the point eye saw know sum one making...
Yes. When someone does the same thing, over and over, the pattern is noticed.
[✘]
I see the intolerant are out in force today.
That's what I thought........carry on
lol …. As usual, a modest piece of creative writing but that’s about it.
What we ALL really know is people convince themselves of things they know are wrong, every day. Especially when it supports the latest partisan narrative they are trying to shove down others throats.
THAT is some weak sauce, very weak indeed.
Just as you have so amply demonstrate!
Opinions do vary
Of course. Unless one makes an effort, confirmation bias will always prevail.
So each of us must decide WHAT we want: reality or gratification.
Wondering why you separate the two.....they aren't mutually exclusive..........by a long shot
I may borrow that quote in future.
Thank you.
Are complaining because I'm infringing on your patent somehow?
That makes no sense.
Your posts are up to you. Reply to whomever you want, or don't.
Your consistent attempts to control other people's conversations are strange.
Here is an example of exaggeration to serve as a foundation for a strawman argument: Interpreting a claim that Trump is taking actions to expand his power and mitigate democracy as 'oh no, it is the end of democracy'.
More like each of us must decide what “reality” is. Because some interpretations and misrepresentations of “reality” here are about as far away from reality as one can get.
This place just seems to get loonier by the day.
That still does not explain "the extreme possibility is created by your exaggeration.".
And regardless, pretending those exaggerations come in response to comments like "Trump is taking actions to expand his power" is idiotically disingenuous.
We're on a seed where moderate views are labeled "a plague". We have another seed today talking about "cult", which is hilariously ironic in it's own right.
Step by step:
that is part and parcel for this place. Hyperbolic speech and gaslighting are the order of most days.
Even Trump knows he'll be long dead by then.
Seems he's predicting his own mortality these days.
Can't happen too soon.
This might possibly be the most indefensible thing you've ever written. How many years has JR and others on the Left here tried to present Trump as the greatest threat to democracy ever. And now, not only that, to the world? JR presents everything Trump does in the most extreme light he possibly can. And somehow, Jack saying calm down is the actual problem??? He's not creating the exaggeration, he's exposing it.
Trump may not be the worst person on the planet, but he is definitely the worst president America has ever suffered under.
Your "side" either denies Trump's pathological lying exists, or downplays it. Today in a radio interview he claimed to have ended ten "wars". Fact checkers put that number at more like two or three.
As long as you allow Trump to lie and behave like a sack of shit, that is how long you will have to suffer through him being attacked.
As far as US government officials go, yes, hell yes.
Tig has a lot more interest in engaging you and Jack in long "debates" than I have. I think it is a waste of time.
Andrew Jackson says hello. He can't stay long because he needs to get back to that genocide project he's working on.
LBJ says he'll come by later when he finishes up the still lingering effects on veterans of the war he promised we'd never get into.
Nixon can't make it. Something about needing to hire more burglars. I dunno.
Andrew Johnson says he's still working on reinstating slavery, and if he gets that done, he'll pop over.
what nonsense
which one of them created chaos on a daily basis, or attacked hundreds of people, by name , in public forums, or personally sent a message out riling up tens of thousands of people to riot at the capitol building, or sent troops into American cities on false pretenses, or accepted a 400 million dollar gift from a foreign country, or talked about maybe not leaving after his final term ends (according to the constitution). ? or said he doesnt know whether he is required to follow the constitution?
I guess you're right. Trump does run everything he wants to say by me and I do allow him to lie a lot but you never get to see the doozies I don't let him say. Not going to take credit for how he acts, though. Someone else here on NT is in charge of that.
My fault. He wanted to say five but I told him ten would sound better.
Allow??? Do you actually hear yourself??
Oh FFS that's hilarious.
Yeah Drakk. If Trump gets out of line again, you need to ground him. No TV for a week and he has to mow the putting green on the South Lawn.
What's inaccurate, John? Do tell?
Let me make this perfectly clear, on this forum you let him be a liar. How would I know what you do anywhere else? I couldnt give a shit about your word games.
see
[deleted][✘]
So you believe that moving from 'Trump is the greatest threat to democracy from a government official that we have had as a nation' to 'This is the end of democracy!!!' is not an exaggeration?
You're really going to try to compare any of that to the Trail of Tears??? Do you understand how completely unhinged that is?
Because saying mean things about people is definitely worse than killing 15,000 of them? FFS, get some perspective. And get your facts straight for a change, while you're at it.
You can't demand everybody else be hysterical all the time and still hope to have anybody take you seriously.
The "plague" upon this country is those who demand everyone else validate their batshit emotional tirades and the "cult" is the people who do so.
The point of comparison was not brutality but rather a threat to democracy and this is underlying the claim that Trump is arguably the worst PotUS in our history.
Another exaggeration ... claiming JR is "hysterical" ... worse "hysterical all the time" (by implication) and literally claiming JR "demand"s that "everyone else be hysterical all the time".
Further, nobody has (to my knowledge) claimed that Trump is committing genocide, but they certainly have noted that Trump's policies towards illegals is brutal, illegal, inhumane, and irrational. It is one thing to deport criminals illegals. Going after those who are long-time domiciled, working, and raising families (usually with children who are US citizens jus soli) was never in the cards. Do you approve of Trump's mass deportation actions and the funding thereof? Especially when this is done by denying due process and sending people to nations other than their homeland (in some cases, sending them to torture and possible death).
I suspect JR is referring to the fact that people who defend Trump's lies or downplay same are enabling more lies. The idea is obvious: if the electorate would not buy his lies and would object to them, we would see a change in the backbone of Congress and in media reporting. And we would Trump back off more from his idiotic moves.
In short, this draws on the obvious principle that Trump's power is a function of public opinion. If the electorate (in particular, those who make excuses for him, downplay his faults, etc.) were to hold Trump accountable, he would back off on his more extreme acts. For example, if the public were to get a grip and understand the implications of Trump's tariffs and make their objections known, Trump would not continue with his idiotic notion that tariffs are paid by foreign nations and bring money into the USA. Right now, Trump believes that enough people buy his bullshit to continue.
That kind of stuff.
When you describe people who refuse to validate your extreme views with words like "plague" or "cult", and when you claim what Trump is doing is worse than an actual genocide... yeah... hysterical fits.
When you describe anyone who refuses to validate your extreme views as "MAGA", even though they refuse to vote for Trump... yeah... hysterical pretty much applies.
No, he's just worse than the guy who did. (I hope you hear my eyes rolling as you read that.) Let's go ahead and compare him to Hitler again, while we're at it.
But we're not having a discussion on issues, now are we? That might be sane. Nah. We're talking about plagues and cults and "threats to democracy". We're now into what people on this forum "allow" Trump to say. What the actual fuck?
Absolutely not. It's asinine.
That's the larger issue. A LOT of what he does is asinine. We've already discussed his yo-yo tariffs ad nauseum. It's not like JR or anybody else should ever run out of material sticking to actual issues.
But they don't stick to actual issues. They go into orbit over tweets or off the cuff comments and then blast anybody who doesn't go into orbit with them.
You realize that's not any better, right? Nobody on this tiny little forum is "enabling" the President of the United States?
An alternate idea is also obvious. Trump is in office because the electorate looked at him and thought he was less crazy than the Democrats. Unhinged nonsense about plagues, cults, and threats to democracy doesn't help that. Neither does a consistent utter and complete lack of objectivity.
I have found a new hobby that is even more fun than trashing political folk.
Magnet fishing is the most fun that I have had in a month of Sundays!
Bought a 2000 lb magnet and repurposed some ski rope and am having the time of my life on local bridges and boat docks.
Still hoping to pull up a Rolex or a Glock.
If Trumps' constant defenders, also recognized by many,
as MAGA, Morons Against Good Americans , or, a Cult chore'd with the in enviable task of defending a convicted felon with close to 30 women accusing him of sexual assault, has been found guilty of sexually assaulting/raping a woman and defamation of character and owes $84,000,000.00 MILLION or so to said woman. All as he on a daily basis down talks to women in general, as well as people with more pigment than he, or other women that are just pigs, meant for him, cause goin out on a limb, that would break from tubbo's immense wait that he is too impatient to lift, so uber quick his phat Orange asz out of our highest and most prestigious office in the land, cause President Little Hand, with the beer belly cankles, has this country bent over and grabbin its' own ankles, all as he spanks and banks, his teeny weeny peni and OUR $ monies making unethical and morally bankrupt decisions getting ridiculously wealthy as his incisions cut deep into the poor, as his 1% class less take more, as his LIES are now Super Size to demonize our once great country, but asz he's readily been heard to quote, he can just grab em' buy the Counttry of pussy's too proudly ignorant to admit that their tolerance and head nod has not enabled the known convicted sexually assaultin little girl guy's 'wing man' ,as he campaigned on spreadin sunshine about those rich and elite like he, who would be brought out inn the open where they wood be forced to face justice for their crimes against the weakest and most innocent of our society, all as he has cut the public off, like Lorraina Bobbit, as the DICK tater twot grabbin back slappin while stabbin, mental misaligned only one of his unkind a tempts to find no solutions to ourproblems while takin them to the extreme as the classless POS appears dipped in molasses and covered with it(shit that is) as he makes America Sewer Grate Again, yet ewe sea know blind following, just like the others who see know schools of phish swimming in sink, and sinc e oui due, with each passing day, as the won who lost yet somehow got a way out of prison due to quart jesters and defenders of molesters who invited to incite it, asz in insurrectionists gone wild flashin their brazen a salt that should sting, unless, moored on that Kult Thing, that ewe and sew many a tempt like Christ, to X plain a weigh, wear as most thinkin individuals sea its' depths asz plane as a day, say Nine Eleven sized, ore, un circumscized, is the DICK tater tot swabbin whilst goo goblin the ghouls and boyz whilst treatin them to some Trix, and he and Epstein, thought they were only for KIDS, silly rabid see foamin at the mouth that whitch spews from our hoghest post another unadulterated pre post not mature driven coast to coast, as his forgivers and silent head nodders need heads banged against some ROCK N ROLL, cause this Kult Liter has been takin it and his toll out on US, but watts all the fuss, iF u haven't herd, could it , would it, be so absurd, to suggest that your chore has gone unnotticed, and , if eye saw me, doing the gloatest, I'd wish to know, that what i couldn't see, shielded others from seeing me, as well, just like he, and oh yes, time will te;;ll, as will the potential and likely HE'll we'll all need face, because so many can't face the Kult leading disgrace of this country tis of he, former sweet land of liberty, of he we sing, cause silence and silent nods, have given US a King who bobs for slobs, and then asks "how do ewe like them apples"...?
In the real world they often are. For example, AGW is real, but millions of Americans choose the gratification of conspiracy-theory denialism over reality.
Amen.
Do we have any flat-earthers, yet??
True. The problem is that there is a great deal of disagreement over what is hyperbolic. I say "Trump and the Republican Party are fascists", a reality that we see in the press every day, with US Armed Forces deploying into American cities... but some here say my use of "fascist" is over the top.
Meanwhile, some here call for imprisonment of Trump's / Republicans' political adversaries, without evidence.
Those two "some here" groups overlap a lot!
What are those??
No, not at all. JR pushes the sorts of stories that say the exact same thing. The end of democracy. That Trump is currently engaging in activities that will end it. Do you recall how unhinged he was after Trump won his second term? Do you not recall all the times that, unless I or anyone else doesn't fall in line with his views we get plastered with derogatory labels? That's extremism, TiG, not exaggeration.
Really? Do you not recall all the articles from him concerning how the media, even on the left, are not sufficiently condemning Trump? How everyone not in line with his particular views are part of the problem and, subsequently are often labeled with the usual derogatory labels?
[✘] The president that committed genocide through The Trail Of Tears? That is Trump's favorite president (other than himself of course) One of the first things Trump did with the oval office in 2017 was put a portrait of Andrew Jackson in a prominent place on the wall. I think that was at the same time period Trump was telling reporters that Frederick Douglas is doing a good job.
[✘] Why they are drawn to defend Donald Trump is for them to explain.
In any case it has clearly become a waste of time to "debate" these two guys.
'Hysterical' is an exaggerated label. Basically just taunting. The word 'cult' (actually 'cultish' is more the norm) is very descriptive of the 'Trump can do no wrong' positions of many, if not most, Trump supporters.
Intellectual dishonesty. The comparison, again, was not on the dimension of brutality but rather on the dimension of harm to democracy.
Pretending to not understand the point. The point here, Jack, as you know, is that Trump's power comes from his supporters. That if his supporters would stop defending him and turn to being objectively critical of his moves (e.g. taking over the DC police dept. and considering similar illegal acts in other cities) then those who can stop him will grow a pair.
Indeed. Yet you have a problem with those of us who criticize Trump's actions.
'They' do not 'go into orbit' (exaggeration), they use these as examples of their greater points.
I think I'll start calling Jack and Drak nefarious. It makes as much sense as them calling me hysterical. I am sure I have posted more links to Trumps misconduct than anyone on this forum. This is not a "shot in the dark".
Okay, if you do not recognize the exaggeration there is no point in discussing this with you.
BTW, this cannot be about an individual member. Speak in generalities (if at all).
There are a lot of people who are disgusted that the electorate actually elected such an abysmal human being as Trump, after all that he had done at that point. It illustrated a fundamental failing of the current electorate. The rest of the planet seems to see the failure (what are the Americans thinking?) yet so many right here cannot see it.
It is not extremism to criticize Trump as arguably the worst PotUS in our history. And I do not blame anyone for daily criticism of Trump because the guy is, on a weekly basis, finding new ways to abuse his power for his own personal gratification and often in a way that is pointless (e.g. the gilding of the white house) or bad for the nation (e.g. tariffs, mass funding used for mass deportations of domiciled family members, taking over PDs, firing watchdogs, and anyone who might oppose him, hiring incompetent sycophants for top positions, ... on and on).
What will happen if everyone just goes along with Trump, accepts him, and "gives him a chance"? Will he change for the better? He is mentally ill, so that is extremely unlikely. He will think he has won the final battle and is now the Supreme Leader. And he has a long enemies list.
This is Donald Trump , this morning, wearing a hat that reads "Trump Was Right About Everything", as he doubletalks about his possible involvement in the raid on John Bolton's home.
Some people think this is "funny" on his part, other people see it as him being nuts. If the president is nuts shouldnt we care ?
Beginning to feel this way about those defending 47,
Wawa'n when not open from 7-11,
closed are ones mind,
as can't do they, ever find
the proper gravity,
unto he to assign,
the proper amount of weight,
to give to the quite insufficient reasons
as to continue to debate,
with those who only see from sanity
nothing that could ever allow for the acceptance of such a fate,
for every day he is allowed to continue at his current rate and coarse,
the harder it becomes, of course, to reverse,
what sooner or later will involve the already, misuse of force,
it is just an inevitable ending to this off coarse fine example of discourse
that they have chosen not to see, as they cannot accept voters' remorse,
even as they witness the crime, they enable
by downplaying the card, Trump brought, then slipped to himself, under the table, while making Billions and Decisions, they'd never accept,
if it were any other,
that either their vote or silence,
did help to elect
and create a Kult, with their contribution, to and for US, a strange sect,
the deniers sure as sure as shit, did help select
Trump tweeted this out at 2 o clock in the morning today
[✘]
Trump said this morning that this past week was the first week in memory that there were no murders in DC. Turns out his memory doesnt even extend back five months.
Trump makes these sort of irresponsible, dishonest comments EVERY DAY , every fucking day, and people like you want to sweep this behavior under the rug.
Read the definition.
You are defending the use of the word "cult" to describe people who refuse to join yours, and you have the temerity to accuse anyone else ever of intellectual dishonesty.
Nice try.
No, that would be you. Again. The point here is the idiocy of even imagining that what gets said on this little forum has any impact on the POTUS whatsoever. It's completely moronic.
More intellectual dishonesty.
The pattern seems to be emerging where you and a few others attempt to disguise your own guilt by accusing others of the very things you do routinely.
So because this is a small forum anyone who attacks Trump is hysterical, because their opposition will have no effect.
No honest person is going to agree with that.
Supports my point; criticism of arguably the worst PotUS in our history who continues to seek and exercise power and exploits his office for personal benefits, is not necessarily 'deriving from or affected by uncontrolled extreme emotion'. The adjective 'hysterical' is itself emotive and clearly meant to taunt rather than engage one thoughtfully.
Who is claiming that this forum, in itself, has any impact on ... anything ... ? Again, you exaggerate to produce a strawman argument.
And you end with blatant projection. Likely because your protests are pitiful.
Shocking!!!!!
Before his summit with Russian President Vladimir Putin last week, President Donald Trump made his goal clear: “I won’t be happy if I walk away without some form of a ceasefire,” he told Fox News . The president also warned Putin of “very severe consequences” if one wasn’t reached.
With the summit past and no ceasefire in sight, that objective doesn’t seem so important to Trump anymore.
“I don’t think you need a ceasefire,” he told reporters Monday, sitting beside Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy. “You know, if you look at the six deals that I settled this year, they were all at war. I didn’t do any ceasefires.”
This is a curious argument. For one, it relies on a dubious talking point about the president having ended “six wars in six months.” It’s also misleading, in part, because it includes temporary ceasefires—which Trump has indeed described , explicitly, as “ceasefires,” confusing them with lasting settlements.
When more European leaders came to the White House Monday, German Chancellor Friedrich Merz pushed back against Trump’s newfound dismissiveness toward a Russia-Ukraine ceasefire.
“I can’t imagine that the next meeting would take place without a ceasefire,” Merz said , adding that peace efforts depend on “at least a ceasefire from the beginning of the serious negotiations, from next step on, so I would like to emphasize this aspect and would like to see a ceasefire [by] the next meeting.”
Trump refused to budge, repeating his earlier argument.
“In the six wars that I’ve settled, I haven’t had a ceasefire. We just got into negotiations,” the president said. “If we can do the ceasefire, great,” he continued, before beginning a sentence that trailed off in quintessential Trump fashion: “And if we don’t do a ceasefire—because many other points were given to us. Many, many points were given to us. Great points.”
It's his party. He can change whatever the hell he wants. I remember one Barrack Hussein Obama getting into office with the words "We didn't realize how bad it was." when he was to wave his magic wand. Thank God that didn't work out.
AI says:
"
Trump is Putin's bitch and always has been.
Russia now says there will be no meeting between Putin and Zelensky. Thats why Trump said we have to wait "two weeks" and see what happens. Everything is just "two weeks" away with this guy. Perfect con man response.
This is not complicated. Fascism has always been tightly bound to capitalism. Trump and his minions are riding both of these, plus MAGA's Christian Nationalism, to shut down democracy in America.
Simple.
This is gaslighting. Fascism requires government control of the economy and is rabidly anti capitalist, hence Mussolini’s definition of “everything within the state, nothing without,” Your post is the perfect example of the Orwellian use of fascism as “anything i don’t like”
Mussolini maintained private industry but imposed strict rules on compliance with the state. Same with Hitler.
A correction to your claim is that Fascism is anti-free-market, but can (as with Mussolini and Hitler) coexist with private businesses making and holding a profit.
Fascism cannot, by the way, coexist with Marxism.
I said fascism is anti-capitalist. Words matter. And, of course it is.
But fascism is also anti-free market. You can't possibly imagine fascist corporatism and free markets are consistent..
Fascism and marxism are variant forms of socialism, much like lutherans and baptists are Christians.
And I noted that historically you are incorrect. Words do matter, so do facts.
But you are correct that Fascism is anti-free-market ... as I noted.
That has got to be one of the most confused statements on this subject I have seen on this site.
For fun, I asked ChatGPT to critique the claim "Fascism and marxism are variant forms of socialism, much like lutherans and baptists are Christians.". It offered this:
Look you can repeat false claims all you want, but they are still false. Either you don't understand the basics of fascism or capitalism. But you cannot be more wrong if you think a totalitarian corporatist state is consistent with capitalism. It's like calling Hitler a zionist.
That's a historical nonsense. But when you rely on a Reddit aggregator for knowledge, mistakes like that will happen. Mussolini was, of course, a socialist. His worldview was formed by socialist thought. He split with italian socialists, because like German and French socialists he saw war as bringing the socialist revolution closer to exist. Your reddit aggregator seems to think that Marxism is the only form of socialism. It is not.
As usual, when wrong you just double down with mere claims.
Even with summary analysis by ChatGPT you just double down.
Mere claims are irrelevant.
Now, let's address your new claims:
A totalitarian state most definitely can have a capitalist economic structure. As noted, both Mussolini and Hitler had private sectors making profit. What does not exist typically in a totalitarian state is a free market. Now, if you cannot distinguish free-market from capitalism, that might be the problem.
And here you show your fundamental, gross misunderstanding of how ChatGPT works (how naive to think ChatGPT is merely reflecting Reddit). I wrote my post from my own knowledge and then included ChatGPT for fun. Interesting that it supported my position and not yours.
Mussolini believed to be a socialist (a Marxist even) but that is irrelevant. What matters is what he did. What he did was fail to build a system where the people had democratic control over the means of production and distribution; where the class system broke down leaving the proletariat in control? It does not matter what Mussolini thought he was, he did not implement Marxist socialism (quite the opposite in fact).
Again you show a profound misunderstanding of ChatGPT. It is up to you to learn about this so that your posts have a chance at being correct. The word 'socialism' is almost meaningless. To speak sensibly we need to qualify. I am talking about Marxist socialism. You want to use the socialism to mean 'the system of the former USSR, et. al.' and then try to force the definition onto Marxist Socialism. It is intellectual dishonesty.
Lol. Let's ask Chatgpt:
Is free market capitalism consistent with fascism?
Great question — and the short answer is no, free-market capitalism is not consistent with fascism. They differ in their basic assumptions about how economies should function, even though both allow private property.
Mussolini believed to be a socialist (a Marxist even) but that is irrelevant.
That is the most pertinent possible fact in this debate. You can't just handwave it away.
My longer answer got deleted when the page froze and I don't want to type it all out again. Here's the short and sweet. Pre the triumph of Marx's disciples in Russia, socialism was much more diverse than it became after the socialist revolution. Mussolini was immersed in an atmosphere of all sorts of socialist theory. He was particularly influenced by Sorel, another Marxist who became the father of syndicalism. Mussolini picked and chose from numerous influences to create a unique socialist melanage. It's socialist to its core. It's just not Marxist. Much like Methodists aren't lutherans but start from the same place.
And yet again you pen an intellectually dishonest post.
My first post noted that facism is not compatible with a free-market:
See?
Now let's read the entire sentence from ChatGPT:
Free market capitalism is inconsistent, but state-controlled capitalism is entirely consistent with fascism. And, yet again, my original post pointed out the fact that both Mussolini and Hitler had private sectors making a profit. That, Sean, is capitalism but not free-market capitalism. In fact, Mussolini had a combination of private-sector capitalism and State Capitalism (state-owned profit-making entities). And this sure as hell was not socialism (the people having democratic control over the means of production and distribution).
It does not matter what Mussolini considered himself. What matters is what he did. Focus on reality.
Does not matter what Mussolini believed. He could have believed he was a god. Does not matter. The fact is that Mussolini (and Stalin) absolutely did NOT implement Marxist socialism (a system where the people had true democratic control over the means of production and distribution). Now if you think otherwise, cite history. Show us all where the people of Italy and the former USSR in those times had control over their economy and had economic freedom.
I am not holding my breath.
I asked ChatGPT to fact check this above quote from me. Here is what it wrote:
[✘] I [✘] try to avoid imputing motives that aren't blatant, but in your case, I assume two motives; you want to "own a lib", and you know that even the stupidest MAGA might turn on Trump if they really understand where fascism always leads. Is already headed, with four-year-old US-citizen cancer patients being expelled.
For anyone else who may read this, though, I'll correct this particular bullshit. The great great German capitalist cartels, from Mercedes to Thyssen to BASF to... all of them... did brilliantly well, collaborating with the Nazis. The Nazis supplied slave labor. The chemical giants supplied Zyklon B to the Nazis.
You know this, Sean. You are whitewashing fascists. Could you explain why?
The "free market", as most Americans understand it, is a myth.
One of Capitalism's greatest victories in America has been to brainwash the public into believing that Capitalism and free markets go together... despite all historical data and all economic theory going right back to dear old Adam Smith!
No corporation ever accepts willingly to play in a free market. A free market limits profits, because any high-profit sector automatically attracts new capacity, thus driving down margins.
So... no true Capitalist will ever submit to a free market. The automatic reflex is to collude on prices, to organize oligopolies, to fix "standards", to bribe the buyer, ...
A "free market" is the corporation's worst nightmare. "Capitalism and free markets go together" is nonsense, both logically and historically.
Good post.
Here's a conversation with ChatGPT:
That is the best comparison of fascism to socialism I've ever seen. Thanks, TiG, for getting that information
This is really the dumbest of all possible arguments. Based on it, I'll assume you've never a managed large scale enterprise. Because if you have you realize what you want to do is constrained by the reality what you can do. That is multiplied by 1000 when managing a country, with other actors trying to literally destroy you. This is not an academic exercise. The real world is incredibly messy and requires compromise, delay and a recognition of what simply can't be done given the reality of other factors.
And that's your whole argument. X isn't this ideology because he deviated from what you believe is the"perfect ideology" without any regard to external factors that led down that path. Or even more laughably, failed to accomplish the impossible utopia he was working for. It's just the no true scotsman fallacy on steroids, endlessly repeated.
It's a simplistic approach that takes away the need for critical thinking or any actual understanding of events beyond a quick wikipedia summary. You just block out all evidence that complicates things and doesn't fit in the neat little ideological box that any person familiar with the topic would find incredibly simplistic.
Those companies were extensions of the state . Capitalism requires property rights. Those companies had no independent rights of action or ability to exist without Nazi approval. They did what they were told and the directors were rewarded for following orders.
That is horseshit.
Those corporations did what the Nazis wanted because they were very well paid to do so.
ChatGPT:
Now we have America's President forcing corporations to share profits with the government. Isn't that kinda fascist??
Ummmm no. We have America's President doing what he has to do to "level the playing field" on trade with others as they have done to us. The word reciprocal comes to mind as most liberals feel everything is SOOOOO unfair.
And there I thought the left wanted to increase taxes on companies, thereby taking more money from those "rich" companies to fund their progressive agenda.
So now you resort to going personal while making up a fantasy that I have argued that reality does not constrain our ideals.
You make up some grand excuse for Mussolini and Stalin, claiming) that both really truly wanted to ensure democratic control over the economy by the people but instead were 'forced' to implement a brutal authoritarian regime where wages were stagnant, democracy was nonexistent, and the ruling class ruled over the working class.
You argue that they did the polar opposite of what they really, truly wanted to do because of reality. Using your analogy, a CEO of a large enterprise who deeply wants to be the largest producer of green energy will, due to reality, invest instead in coal production.
Your argument is pathetic.
The reality, Sean, is that both Mussolini and Stalin deliberately suppressed democracy and built extensive mechanisms for authoritarian rule. They did not even try to build the classless, democratic society where the people heavily influenced their economy envisioned by Marx nor did they even establish the interim mechanisms that Marx believed would lead to his ideal. They were not forced into authoritarian rule, that is what they both intentionally built.
That is simply repeating Trump propaganda. Trump thinks that a trade relationship is bad if we import more than we export from a nation. That is incredibly naive. Downright stupid, actually. Trade relationships are a function of what the trading partner offers us. If we have a trading partner that provides us with inexpensive consumer goods (e.g. Vietnam) but cannot buy enough from us to balance the trade relationship, do you actually believe that this means Vietnam is ripping us off?
Do you?
Do you recognize that it is advantageous to USA consumers to buy electronics, clothing, etc. from nations who can deliver the desired quality at a lower price? Do you recognize that as long as these are consumer goods and not strategic, that this would be good for the USA?
It is bad if there was a need to produce these items domestically. For example, a strategic good like steel, AI infrastructure, etc. should be produced here so that we have control. Not because of an imbalance, but rather to ensure we are not dependent on others for critical items.
Overall, we want to export more than we import. In aggregate, that is true. But nation by nation trade relationships will vary based on the circumstances. Trying to balance each nation is just stupid.
Lol. I think they are both monsters, Stalin one of the worst in history. Any "excuse making" you think I'm making is purely your imagination. I'm just describing reality.
Instead, its you who is making bizarres excuses instead of admitting the most basic of facts like "stalin was a marxist."
Your excuse is your ridiculous fantasy that both Stalin and Mussolini were trying to implement Marxism but reality FORCED them to implement the polar opposite. So instead of building a collectivist society where the people had substantial democratic influence over their economy they were, per your absurd claim, forced to implement a brutal authoritarian regime where the people had no democratic voice, were subjected to low wages, and suffered brutal conditions.
Your argument is pathetic.
Another strawman. Just pitiful. Both Stalin and Mussolini were originally Marxists. Mussolini more than Stalin. Both abandoned their Marxist principles early on when they seized power. So even if both of them had the delusion that they were Marxists, what they did was the polar opposite of Marxism.
I have always argued that what they implemented was NOT Marxism; it was the opposite of Marxism. I have never suggested that these two did not have roots in Marxism.
All you seem to have are strawman arguments and ridiculous claims.
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Interesting how every local government in America is socialist in nature. Only far right wing fascists with sub 80 IQs deny it.
It's simultaneously sad and hilarious that "liberals" have managed to convince themselves this is all they were doing.
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It was you who destroyed what conversation that there almost was.
Don't pretend you attempted a conversation.
from someone who knows, u 2 have weird a temptedconversations
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Why do MAGA worship Trump anyway?
Best I can tell is an irrational hatred of whatever they think the D party, outcast Republicans, and Independents who oppose Trump stand for.
Seems it does not matter what Trump does as long as 'the left' (typically meaning: 'those to my left') does not like it. If Trump is upsetting 'the left' then he can even violate fundamentals of the former GoP (e.g. the rule of law, the CotUS, family values, fiscal responsibility,...) and this will be supported.
Ah, so anything to "Own The Libs" huh?
Rules are out the door if it is antiliberal.
Seems that way, JBB. The 'arguments' are typically unsound (and often logically invalid). Mostly exaggerated claims and almost always framed in a 'Trump vs. Ds' structure.
Just a perfect response to that meme. Did it even occur to you that meme is the epitome of irrational hatred ?
I was not commenting on the meme, but rather on JBB's point of the cult-like support of Trump. However I am sure you interpret the meme as you state, for all that matters.
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Let me inject a little levity into this heated debate.
Trump took credit for ending a war this evening , and one of the two countries he named was not even involved.
Good thing they didnt ask him to point any of them out on a map.
Pretty sure that hatred of Trump is justified.
He has done everything to be hated for.
He has now decided to destroy the planet.
He cares nothing about science.
He only cares about anti-science fascism.
At what point does some sniper get away with shooting Trump claiming "It was for America"?
Considering that Trump is, actually, doing his best to trash American democracy?
Can anyone imagine Trump praying? To whom?
Trump sees himself as ruler of the universe.
No, I can't imagine him praying no matter what MAGA-ites say
As an atheist I don't pray. Don't even hope mostly.
As a world-renowned cynic, I'm never disappointed.
It's all about having sub 80 IQs. Fox taught them that even though they had low IQs, that they should rule. Funny how folk that couldn't even graduate high school think that they should rule the planet. The tea party and MAGA folk are all stupid, ignorant fascist fools.