Nerm_L

Witch Hunt: Blame the Unvaccinated

  
By:  Nerm_L  •  Opinion  •  2 months ago  •  75 comments

Witch Hunt: Blame the Unvaccinated
Those on the left end of the political spectrum oppose the commercial science and only accept science that aligns with their beliefs.

The political witch hunt is an American tradition.  Sometimes the witch hunt really does blame the appropriate people for the appropriate thing.  Most often the political witch hunt is used to hide the sins of those engaged in the witch hunt.

Is Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. a scion of the right wing?  Robert Kennedy has led opposition to vaccines, most notably measles vaccines, as a cause for autism.  The anti-vaccine movement is an outgrowth of crunchy granola back-to-nature activism on the left end of the political spectrum.  The back-to-nature activists oppose pesticides, genetically modified organisms, feedlot farming, adulterated foods, and big pharma medicine.  And opposition to vaccines is part of that back-to-nature activism. Those advocating an all organic vegetarian diet, natural remedies, animal rights, and pre-industrial lifestyles are more susceptible to anti-vaccine messaging.  

Those on the right end of the political spectrum oppose mandates.  Those on the left end of the political spectrum oppose the commercial science and only accept science that aligns with their beliefs.

We're also being told that this is a pandemic of the unvaccinated.  The reality is that none of the variants of concern originated in the United States.  The SARS-Cov-2 Alpha, Beta, Delta, and, now, Lambda variants did not originate in the United States.  This is a pandemic of infected people entering the United States.  And once a variant has been introduced by an infected person entering the United States, the variant spreads by infected people traveling around inside the United States. 

The reality is that this is a pandemic of uncontrolled borders and unenforced quarantines. If we'd spent more time and effort enforcing quarantines than arguing about mandates we could have brought the pandemic under control a lot faster.

So, now we are seeing a political witch hunt against the unvaccinated.  That witch hunt has all the hallmarks of CYA, shifting blame, and targeting political opponents for purely political reasons.  Blaming the unvaccinated is easy, quick, and emotionally satisfying.    But the anti-vaccine movement originated on the left end of the political spectrum; notoriously among Hollywood liberals.  And those on the left end of the political spectrum have adamantly opposed targeting infected individuals entering the country as cause for spreading the virus.  So don't assume that the political witch hunt against the unvaccinated is rational or based on facts.


(Disclosure:  The image selected for this blog is from an anti-vaccine rally that took place in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, in October, 2019 (before the pandemic started).   The anti-vaccine movement is international.

Also as disclosure, I am fully vaccinated with two doses of the Moderna vaccine.  While patriotism and community support did influence that decision, I readily confess to purely selfish motives.  The COVID disease can be very serious and I simply did not want to get sick.)

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Nerm_L
Senior Principal
1  author  Nerm_L    2 months ago

All those pointy fingers of blame may be pointing in the wrong direction to hide the sins of the accusers.

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
1.1  Sparty On  replied to  Nerm_L @1    2 months ago

Definitely for some of them

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2  Tessylo    2 months ago

I do blame the unvaccinated for their ignorance and not caring about anyone but themselves.  

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
2.1  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Tessylo @2    2 months ago
I do blame the unvaccinated for their ignorance and not caring about anyone but themselves. 

Yes, that pointy finger is quite apparent.  Blaming the unvaccinated as ignorantly selfish completely ignores that getting vaccinated is a purely selfish act.  In fact, those advocating vaccines are so selfish they blame the unvaccinated to add a righteous validation to their own exceptional selfishness.

But then, pointing out the facts (and truth) only draws a ticket.  Another ticket, another blog.  The truth will out in the end.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
2.1.1  Krishna  replied to  Nerm_L @2.1    2 months ago
Yes, that pointy finger is quite apparent.  Blaming the unvaccinated as ignorantly selfish completely ignores that getting vaccinated is a purely selfish act.  In fact, those advocating vaccines are so selfish they blame the unvaccinated to add a righteous validation to their own exceptional selfishness.

Yes-- and many wise news commentators agree with you-- 100%! jrSmiley_2_smiley_image.png

320

Right-wing radio host who called Covid a ‘scamdemic’ and Fauci a ‘lying freak’ dies of Covid

Dick Farrel, a right-wing radio host who called COVID-19 a “scamdemic” and advised his followers not to get the vaccine, has died due to complications from the coronavirus.

The controversial broadcaster, who was based in West Palm Beach, Florida, regularly campaigned against vaccination and criticised Dr. Anthony Fauci, calling the immunologist a “power tripping lying freak.” 

Prior to falling ill, however, the former Newsmax anchor wrote, “Vaccine Bogus Bull Shid!, ( READ IT ALL)

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
2.1.2  Krishna  replied to  Krishna @2.1.1    2 months ago
Yes, that pointy finger is quite apparent.  Blaming the unvaccinated as ignorantly selfish completely ignores that getting vaccinated is a purely selfish act.  In fact, those advocating vaccines are so selfish they blame the unvaccinated to add a righteous validation to their own exceptional selfishness.
Yes-- and many wise news commentators agree with you-- 100%.

Keep up the good work Nerml-- many people here on NT are grateful for all your excelent work! jrSmiley_28_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
2.1.3  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Krishna @2.1.2    2 months ago
Keep up the good work Nerml-- many people here on NT are grateful for all your excelent work!

The message is really quite simple and doesn't need explanation.  

Be selfish, get vaccinated.

You aren't getting vaccinated for anyone else.  In this case, don't feel guilty about being extraordinarily selfish.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.1.4  Tessylo  replied to  Nerm_L @2.1    2 months ago

What facts (and truth) do you/have you ever provided??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.1.5  Tessylo  replied to  Nerm_L @2.1    2 months ago

I see who votes up your ignorance.  

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
2.2  XXJefferson51  replied to  Tessylo @2    2 months ago

Which unvaccinated do you blame?  The democrat ones or the Republican ones or both?  

 
 
 
lib50
Professor Quiet
2.2.1  lib50  replied to  XXJefferson51 @2.2    2 months ago

Both

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3  TᵢG    2 months ago
Those on the right end of the political spectrum oppose mandates.  Those on the left end of the political spectrum oppose the commercial science and only accept science that aligns with their beliefs.

Sweeping generalization replete with bias.

And once a variant has been introduced by an infected person entering the United States, the variant spreads by infected people traveling around inside the United States. 

Vaccinated people are less likely to be infected and far less likely to get sick.   To wit, the known variants are more quickly curtailed in a vaccinated society.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
3.1  author  Nerm_L  replied to  TᵢG @3    2 months ago
Sweeping generalization replete with bias.

It is a generalization but that generalization is based upon observations.  Is it really necessary to provide a bibliography of opposition to GMOs, artificial additives, and vaccines?  The back-to-nature or back-to-the-land movements aren't making arguments based upon religious tenets.  Their opposition is science based but only selects science that specifically aligns with beliefs.  

Vaccinated people areless likely to be infectedand far less likely to get sick.   To wit, the known variants are more quickly curtailed in a vaccinated society.

Until a gain-of-function variant emerges that overcomes immunity provided by vaccines.  And based upon progression of this pandemic that gain-of-function variant will emerge elsewhere an be brought into the United States by an infected person entering the country.

 
 
 
Hallux
Sophomore Principal
3.1.1  Hallux  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1    2 months ago

A variant can popup anywhere, even in the US.

 
 
 
exexpatnowinTX
Freshman Participates
3.1.2  exexpatnowinTX  replied to  Hallux @3.1.1    2 months ago
A variant can popup anywhere, even in the US.

There are over 1200 variants thus far.  The ones we hear about are those the WHO deems to be "of concern".

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
3.1.3  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Hallux @3.1.1    2 months ago
A variant can popup anywhere, even in the US.

Yes, a gain-of-function variant can, hypothetically, emerge in the United States.  But the reality is that all the variants of concern originated outside the United States and were brought into the United States by infected people entering the country.  

The real cause of the pandemic and subsequent introduction of variants of concern by infected people entering the United States indicates that stringent controls on entering the country and strictly enforced quarantines would have been effective tools for controlling the spread of the virus.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.4  TᵢG  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1    2 months ago
Until a gain-of-function variant emerges that overcomes immunity provided by vaccines.  And based upon progression of this pandemic that gain-of-function variant will emerge elsewhere an be brought into the United States by an infected person entering the country.

First of all you have and continue to use use the terminology 'gain of function' several times across your articles.   A natural mutation of a virus is not 'gain of function'.   The terminology 'gain of function' refers to human bio-engineering.   To wit 'gain of function' refers to artificial, not natural changes.   Yes, a natural mutation will sometimes deliver relevant function (e.g. be more infectious).   But that is not what is meant by the term.   So unless you are concerned only of human bio-engineering of new variants, your use of 'gain of function' is misleading.

That said, your logic is bizarre.   Yes, of course it is quite possible that a variant will emerge that bypasses the antibodies produced by our vaccines.  But you are using that as an excuse to NOT address the extant variants by dismissing the importance of getting vaccinated.

The two are distinct.    We know that a vaccinated person is less likely to be infected and thus less likely to serve as a host for mutation.   Thus the more people vaccinated, the greater the chance of defeating known variants.

If a natural variant does emerge that bypasses our vaccines and is as infectious as COVID-19 we will be back to December, 2019.   Let's hope that does not occur and, in the meantime, responsibly address the problem at hand.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.5  TᵢG  replied to  exexpatnowinTX @3.1.2    2 months ago

What is your point?   There are far more than 1200 variants due to the nature of mutations and the countless trillions of extant microbes of coronavirus.   The super majority of same have no measurable impact.

The only variants that matter are those whose properties pose a new threat.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
3.1.6  Tessylo  replied to  TᵢG @3.1.4    2 months ago

They say 'stuff' and they have no idea what they're talking about.  

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
3.1.7  author  Nerm_L  replied to  TᵢG @3.1.4    2 months ago
First of all you have used the terminology 'gain of function' several times across your articles.   A natural mutation of a virus is not 'gain of function'.   The term 'gain of function' refers to human bio-engineering.   To wit 'gain of function' refers to artificial, not natural changes.

The variants of concern have gained function through natural mutation under uncontrolled conditions.  A variant that is more infectious or causes more severe symptoms has gained function; that's why it is a variant of concern.

Gain-of-function research controls conditions that favor natural mutations that may result in a gain-of-function.  Gain-of-function research does not genetically modify or directly manipulate the genome of the virus.

So, your parsing of language is based upon an incomplete understanding.

That said, your logic is bizarre.   Yes, of course it is quite possible that a variant will emerge that bypasses the antibodies produced by our vaccines.  But you are using that as an excuse to NOT address the extant variants by dismissing the importance of getting vaccinated.

That argues a fiction.  I'm not dismissing the importance of getting vaccinated.  I'm pointing out that the political witch hunt against the unvaccinated is based upon ignoring reality to hide the sins of the accusers.

Vaccines won't overcome lax controls over infected people entering the country.  Vaccines won't overcome lack of enforcement of quarantines.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.8  TᵢG  replied to  Tessylo @3.1.6    2 months ago

Sometimes it seems that way.   I do not see why people are against vaccinations other than sheer ignorance and/or a conformist mentality that simply adopts the position of the group to which they belong.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.9  TᵢG  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1.7    2 months ago
The variants of concern have gained function through natural mutation under uncontrolled conditions.  A variant that is more infectious or causes more severe symptoms has gained function; that's why it is a variant of concern.

I knew you would play this game that is why I stated this upfront (and you of course ignored it):

TiG @3.14 ☞ Yes, a natural mutation will sometimes deliver relevant function (e.g. be more infectious).   But that is not what is meant by the term.   So unless you are concerned only of human bio-engineering of new variants, your use of 'gain of function' is misleading.

Predictable!

So, your parsing of language is based upon an incomplete understanding.

Bullshit.   This is a well established term and anyone with basic skills can easily verify this without breaking a sweat.    You are misusing the term and instead of dealing with it (and this does not surprise me) you insist on redefining the term for your purposes.   Same old crap Nerm.

Vaccines won't overcome lax controls over infected people entering the country.  Vaccines won't overcome lack of enforcement of quarantines.

And here you show that you are just arguing against vaccinations.   Vaccines do not solve all the problems.   I think everyone understands that.   But vaccines absolutely do reduce infections and thus reduce potential hosts for mutations.   Why are you against encouraging people to get vaccinated?  

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
3.1.10  XXJefferson51  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1    2 months ago

The open southern border assures what you suggest.  Thanks biden!  

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
3.1.11  XXJefferson51  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1.3    2 months ago

They were controls until biden became President 

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
3.1.12  author  Nerm_L  replied to  TᵢG @3.1.9    2 months ago
Bullshit.   This is a well established term and anyone with basic skills can easily verify this without breaking a sweat.    You are misusing the term and instead of dealing with it (and this does not surprise me) you insist on redefining the term for your purposes.   Same old crap Nerm.

Yes, "gain of function" is a well established term that describes specific types of mutations.  The stated purpose of the research is to understand how gain of function occurs in the wild.  The term "gain of function" was not created to describe the research; the research was created to understand gain of function.

Ignoring reality to argue for what one wants to believe is a hallmark of a witch hunt.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Guide
3.1.13  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Hallux @3.1.1    2 months ago

Thanks to the unvaccinated, new variants will develop that are resistant to the current vaccines.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.14  TᵢG  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1.12    2 months ago
Ignoring reality to argue for what one wants to believe is a hallmark of a witch hunt.

Where, specifically, do I ignore reality?   You are simply projecting.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
3.1.15  Krishna  replied to  exexpatnowinTX @3.1.2    2 months ago
There are over 1200 variants thus far.  The ones we hear about are those the WHO deems to be "of concern".

So what would you have them do-- talk more about those that are relatively benign?

(And put less emphasis on the more dangerous ones?)

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
3.1.16  Krishna  replied to  XXJefferson51 @3.1.10    2 months ago
The open southern border assures what you suggest.  Thanks biden!

Good point. Because after all, the Southern border was tightly shut under Trump!

Yeppers-- nary even a single "Caravan" of migrants during Trump's reign (heck, he even said so himself jrSmiley_9_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
3.1.17  Krishna  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1.12    2 months ago

Ignoring reality to argue for what one wants to believe is a hallmark of a witch hunt.

Obviously you are talking of the more ardent Trump supporters

 
 
 
Hallux
Sophomore Principal
3.1.18  Hallux  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1.3    2 months ago
Yes, a gain-of-function variant can, hypothetically, emerge in the United States.  But the reality is that all the variants of concern originated outside the United States and were brought into the United States by infected people entering the country.

Whether or not that is the case, the virus will not care when or where it mutates. Believing it cannot happen in the US is toying with ignorance and crossed fingers ... hardly a duo to have faith in.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
3.1.19  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Hallux @3.1.18    2 months ago
Whether or not that is the case, the virus will not care when or where it mutates. Believing it cannot happen in the US is toying with ignorance and crossed fingers ... hardly a duo to have faith in.

Yes, as I have agreed, it is possible for a variant of concern to emerge in the United States.  But the possibility doesn't address probability.

Can you name pandemics that originated in the United States?  The history of pandemic in the United States indicates a higher probability that a variant of concern will be brought into the United States by infected people entering the country.

In this pandemic can you name any variant of concern that has emerged in the United States?  So, far all the variants of concern have been brought into the country by infected people.

We're taking extreme measures to address possibilities while ignoring effective means of addressing the probabilities.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
3.1.20  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Krishna @3.1.17    2 months ago
Obviously you are talking of the more ardent Trump supporters

Yes, obvious biases are traits of the ardent.  Passion often overwhelms reason.

 
 
 
Hallux
Sophomore Principal
3.1.21  Hallux  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1.19    2 months ago
Can you name pandemics that originated in the United States?

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
3.1.22  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Hallux @3.1.21    2 months ago

Yes, I have already agreed that there are possibilities.  The author of the research paper in your link presents a possibility among several possibilities.

But the history of pandemic in the United States (and colonial North America) precedes the 1918 influenza pandemic.  Indigenous populations were decimated by pandemics.  So, again, the probability based on history is that infectious diseases and more contagious, resilient variants will be brought into the country by infected people.

 
 
 
lib50
Professor Quiet
3.1.23  lib50  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1.3    2 months ago

You do realize Americans travel abroad and bring it back. When Trump 'stopped' flights from China he let all the infected Americans right back into the country. Blaming 'foreigners' is just a way to pretend we don't own our problems.

I can't figure out how people who are against the vaccines, and think Covid is a hoax or overblown, pivot and start blaming other people coming to this country for our mess. 

Our covid stats are all ours. And I do blame the unvaccinated Americans for making it worse.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
3.1.24  Tessylo  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1.22    2 months ago

116795987_3787793227903469_7781374973846449129_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=FAtdLf14FjsAX8NjyEH&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=2d910f65284111b6cf23f0c7a152c01b&oe=61424654

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Senior Principal
3.1.25  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Tessylo @3.1.24    2 months ago

Serious question. If indeed Dave "did everything he was supposed to", including masking up, washing frequently, and social distancing, how do you suppose he got it? Are we to believe that doing all those things is worthless as he did them and still got it?

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
3.1.26  Sparty On  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @3.1.25    2 months ago

[deleted]

I mean who's to say he didn't catch it from an already vaccinated person now that we know that appears to happen at a great rate than predicted.

Sad, just sad .......

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Guide
3.1.27  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  lib50 @3.1.23    2 months ago

Here, the unvaccinated are 95% of the recently infected, hospitalized, and the dead.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Senior Principal
3.1.28  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Sparty On @3.1.26    2 months ago

It is. As you say, how do they know? Hell, one of his own family could have given it to him all things being equal unless he masked up at home.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Senior Principal
3.1.29  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @3.1.27    2 months ago

Why is that a surprise? Or a revelation even. And what of the other 5%? Vaccine or no?

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
3.1.30  Sparty On  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @3.1.28    2 months ago

A place and time for everything but spewing nonsense like that in an Obit?

100% unconscionably white trash move .... no doubt about it.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.1.31  JohnRussell  replied to  Sparty On @3.1.30    2 months ago

Are you and Just Jim aware that the dead man's wife WROTE that obit?   Are you calling the dead man's widow "white trash" ? 

Texas resident David W. Nagy, 79, died of COVID-19 on July 22, 2020, and his wife Stacey Nagy published a fiery obituary in the local newspaper condemning politicians she said failed to take the pandemic seriously, including U.S. President Donald Trump and Texas Gov. Greg Abbott.

The obituary expresses not just grief over Nagy’s death from COVID-19, but also anger, stating his death was needless and the result of negligence by others.

A social media user took a photograph of the obituary published in the Jefferson Jimplecute, a small newspaper covering Marion County, Texas, that doesn’t appear to have a functioning website.  

We contacted Stacey Nagy by phone and confirmed with her directly that she wrote the obituary. Nagy, who lives in Jefferson, Texas, said she was glad the obituary is being seen widely because she wanted her message to get out: notably, that others’ failures to take precautions against COVID-19, like wearing face masks and social distancing, are causing people like her to experience hardship and grief.

Nagy said she has seen a lot people around her town failing to wear face masks, from drugstore employees to deputies at the Marion County Sheriff’s Department, even though Marion County is now under Abbott’s   mask mandate .

Did Obituary Blame Trump for Man's COVID-19 Death? | Snopes.com
 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
3.1.32  Tessylo  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.31    2 months ago

jrSmiley_78_smiley_image.gif I don't know why so much ignorance and hate is allowed to stand.  

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
3.1.33  Tessylo  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.31    2 months ago

I think we know who the 'white trash' is here.  

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
3.1.34  Sparty On  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.31    2 months ago

I didn't stutter John.   Family members usually write Obits.

Like i said, a place and time for everything.   She chose to do it and i chose to disagree with it.

Pretty simple really.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
3.1.35  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Sparty On @3.1.34    2 months ago
I didn't stutter John.   Family members usually write Obits.

Like i said, a place and time for everything.   She chose to do it and i chose to disagree with it.

Pretty simple really.

Well, it's not surprising that family, especially a spouse, would lash out.  After all, the guy did do what he was supposed to and died anyway.  In a time of grief, passion often overcomes reason.  

The bigger question is why the newspaper allowed it to be published.  The newspaper editorial staff should have enough experience with obituaries to know that the bereaved don't always think too clearly and often act out emotionally because of their loss.  The editors deliberately exploited a personal loss and grief to publish an editorial opinion.  That seems rather callous. 

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
3.1.36  Sparty On  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1.35    2 months ago
Well, it's not surprising that family, especially a spouse, would lash out.

Not at all but i'm guessing there were plenty of latent TDS type issues there long before her husband died.

If grief overcame reason as rule, many, many Obits would lash out and yet most choose not too.   An Obit is simply not the best place to lash out like that

The editors deliberately exploited a personal loss and grief to publish an editorial opinion.  That seems rather callous. 

I agree, it is.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4  Tessylo    2 months ago

219933178_10227024473542945_8631257905531441496_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=4kWpdsWaCu4AX8Kt_qB&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=82b56534f7097e0ca393064915105e26&oe=61405220

 
 
 
Moose Knuckle
Freshman Participates
5  Moose Knuckle    2 months ago

I was happily surprised to see the new government in Afghanistan is taking this pandemic seriously, they were all masked.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Guide
5.1  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Moose Knuckle @5    2 months ago

Then you must be thrilled that the KKK is also.

 
 
 
exexpatnowinTX
Freshman Participates
6  exexpatnowinTX    2 months ago

Of course when people speak of "science" and the experts, they support those they agree with and discard any that do not conform to their predisposed beliefs.

No one wants to accept that there are potentially millions of Americans with natural immunity due to having been previously infected.   Don't believe me, but at least consider these radicals from a prestigious institution:

No point vaccinating those who’ve had COVID-19: Cleveland Clinic study suggests

Scientists from the Cleveland Clinic, USA, have recently evaluated the effectiveness of coronavirus disease 2019 COVID-19) vaccination among individuals with or without a history of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) infection.

The study findings reveal that individuals with previous SARS-CoV-2 infection do not get additional benefits from vaccination, indicating that COVID-19 vaccines should be prioritized to individuals without prior infection. The study is currently available on the medRxiv * preprint server ( not peer-reviewed ).

 
 
 
Hallux
Sophomore Principal
6.1  Hallux  replied to  exexpatnowinTX @6    2 months ago

So, your argument is to not wait for a peer-review?

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
6.1.1  Sparty On  replied to  Hallux @6.1    2 months ago

Why not?  

You're trying to push a non FDA approved vaccine on people.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
7  devangelical    2 months ago

I think you may have confused some traditions in america. for contagious viruses in the past, you nailed the doors and windows shut and then you torched the house with the infected inside.

 
 
 
Duck Hawk
Freshman Silent
8  Duck Hawk    2 months ago

I can and do blame those people who aren't vaccinated for the current mess we are in. Get the fucking shot, get your kids (12+) the shot and wear a fucking mask! Then we may have a chance to get this under control. this bull shit of parents making threats against people who advocate for masking is going to get someone hurt. Or is that your intention? (See the events in Tenn. and FL for what I'm talking about.)

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Expert
9  Tacos!    2 months ago

You bet your ass I blame these people. They know better and they are intentionally perpetuating the worst viral pandemic in a century. We have a safe, effective vaccine, and they won’t take it. Every day that they don’t get the shot, they cause more deaths. They should be deeply ashamed of themselves, get the shot, and then beg for forgiveness.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
9.1  author  Nerm_L  replied to  Tacos! @9    2 months ago
You bet your ass I blame these people. They know better and they are intentionally perpetuating the worst viral pandemic in a century. We have a safe, effective vaccine, and they won’t take it. Every day that they don’t get the shot, they cause more deaths. They should be deeply ashamed of themselves, get the shot, and then beg for forgiveness.

Do we blame unvaccinated migrants crossing the border?  Projections are there will be 2 million this year.  That's more people entering the country than the populations of some states.

Do we blame unvaccinated Afghans trying to enter the country?

Do we blame the vaccinated who did not develop immunity?  Clinical trials provided data that 6 pct of the fully vaccinated with Pfizer or Moderna vaccines will still be susceptible and 20 pct of those receiving one dose will still be susceptible to infection.  The clinical trial data for the J&J vaccine showed that 34 pct would still be susceptible to infection.  The latest trials shows that efficacy declines over time; some trials indicating that as much as 40 pct of the fully vaccinated population will be susceptible to infection.

The vaccines were not intended to stop spread of the virus.  The purpose of the vaccines was to reduce or prevent severe symptoms requiring hospitalization and death.

The unvaccinated can be blamed for increases in hospitalization and death because the unvaccinated are susceptible to those outcomes.  But the continued spread of the virus can be blamed on the unvaccinated and the vaccinated.

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
9.1.1  Sparty On  replied to  Nerm_L @9.1    2 months ago

Post of the day so far.

Spot on!

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Senior Principal
9.1.2  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Sparty On @9.1.1    2 months ago

30 staff, fully vaccinated staff, at one of the local hospitals has Covid. 51 at another.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
9.1.3  JohnRussell  replied to  Nerm_L @9.1    2 months ago

Parents lined up to have their children given a vaccine against polio. Everyone accepted that this was a common good. No one complained or dreamt up conspiracy theories. This was in Vic's "greatest decade", the 1950's. 

Polio was virtually eradicated in the US in just a few years, and the first year the vaccine was given the infection rate dropped like a rock. 

Why can't Americans in 2021 be like the "greatest decade" ? 

 
 
 
exexpatnowinTX
Freshman Participates
9.1.4  exexpatnowinTX  replied to  JohnRussell @9.1.3    2 months ago
Parents lined up to have their children given a vaccine against polio. Everyone accepted that this was a common good. No one complained or dreamt up conspiracy theories. This was in Vic's "greatest decade", the 1950's. 

Maybe if you stop and consider that the majority of unvaccinated are black and their experience with the government and vaccines is not what anyone can call stellar.

You are aware of that other Tuskegee aren't you?  The one started in 1932 and ended in 1972?  The syphilis study by the CDC which used the blacks as test subjects?

Convince them that the vaccine is NOT a test on the blacks and maybe you'll succeed where others have failed.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
9.1.5  JohnRussell  replied to  exexpatnowinTX @9.1.4    2 months ago

People who say they will never get vaccinated are by a large plurality white, male, low to lower middle income, and without a college degree. 

KFF COVID-19 Vaccine Monitor Dashboard | KFF

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
9.1.6  author  Nerm_L  replied to  JohnRussell @9.1.3    2 months ago
Parents lined up to have their children given a vaccine against polio. Everyone accepted that this was a common good. No one complained or dreamt up conspiracy theories. This was in Vic's "greatest decade", the 1950's. 

Polio was virtually eradicated in the US in just a few years, and the first year the vaccine was given the infection rate dropped like a rock. 

Why can't Americans in 2021 be like the "greatest decade" ? 

And people are lining up for the COVID vaccines.  About 170 million, so far.  That's about 70 pct of those who are eligible.  Almost 360 million vaccine doses have been administered; more doses have been administered than the size of the population.  That happened over the last eight months; not a decade. 

And many who have not been vaccinated have already developed some level of natural immunity from previous infections; we don't know how many but it could be over 30 million (the reported number of infections). 

We don't know how many of the unvaccinated are immuno-compromised.  We don't know how many are undergoing cancer treatment.  We don't know how many are susceptible to allergic reactions to vaccines.  We don't know if that is 1 pct of the population or 10 pct of the population.  We're only told about eligibility based on age.

The United States has compressed the 'greatest decade' of the 1950s into one year.  How does that justify a witch hunt?

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
9.1.7  Sparty On  replied to  JohnRussell @9.1.3    2 months ago
Why can't Americans in 2021 be like the "greatest decade" ? 

Because that was then and this is now.  

Had people rioted and looted back during the "greatest decade" like they did in 2020, they would have been water cannoned, had dogs set upon them or shot. 

Do you suggest we go back to that as well?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
9.1.8  JohnRussell  replied to  Nerm_L @9.1.6    2 months ago

A "witch hunt" is by definition unjustified. Telling everyone to get vaccinated so that we can save lives is not unjustified by any stretch of the imagination. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
9.1.9  JohnRussell  replied to  Sparty On @9.1.7    2 months ago

I'm trying to calculate how many rules of logic you just broke. 

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
9.1.10  Sparty On  replied to  JohnRussell @9.1.9    2 months ago

Yeah, i understand John.  

Comparisons are a bitch when they shoot holes in the position you are pushing as "logic" John.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
9.1.11  JohnRussell  replied to  Sparty On @9.1.10    2 months ago

Your comment 9.1.7   makes no sense.  Not my problem. 

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Senior Principal
9.1.12  author  Nerm_L  replied to  JohnRussell @9.1.8    2 months ago
A "witch hunt" is by definition unjustified. Telling everyone to get vaccinated so that we can save lives is not unjustified by any stretch of the imagination. 

Don't try to justify a tyranny of the majority by claiming a moral imperative that the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many.

That would be logically incoherent. 

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
9.1.13  Sparty On  replied to  JohnRussell @9.1.11    2 months ago

Your comment i quoted from 9.1.3 makes no sense.   Not my problem.

 
 
 
exexpatnowinTX
Freshman Participates
9.1.14  exexpatnowinTX  replied to  JohnRussell @9.1.5    2 months ago
People who say they will never get vaccinated are by a large plurality white, male, low to lower middle income, and without a college degree. 

Per the results of a poll, but is that poll looking at the numbers of people polled or the numbers of people polled as a total percentage of the population?

The numbers really do matter.

 
 
 
lib50
Professor Quiet
9.2  lib50  replied to  Tacos! @9    2 months ago

Damn, Tacos, I go away for a while and come back in total agreement here.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Guide
9.3  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Tacos! @9    2 months ago

I would like to see all of these morons buy deserted towns, fix them up, and live in ignorant bliss.  Those towns eventually will be deserted again as the population of them will go to zero as they kill each other off.