Trump Groups Sent Forged Election Docs to National Archives: Report - Rolling Stone
By: Peter Wade (Rolling Stone)
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
The groups sent fake certificates of ascertainment declaring Trump the winner
By Peter Wade
Former President Trump speaks at the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC), on Sunday, July 11, 2021, in Dallas.
AP
Pro-Trump groups in Arizona and Michigan attempted to fool the National Archives by sending forged certificates of ascertainment declaring Trump the recipient of the state's 2020 electors. The Jan. 6 committee now has those fake certificates, thanks to the secretaries of State for both swing states, Politico reported on Monday.
The National Archives shared the forged documents with state officials, informing them it would not accept the fakes. Representatives for the officials declined to comment on the documents to Politico, but they confirmed that Michigan Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson and Arizona Secretary of State Katie Hobbs and their staff met with the Jan. 6 committee this past November.
"They mostly discussed election administration in Arizona, the 2020 elections, threats/harassment directed toward the office, and the Cyber Ninja's partisan ballot review," a spokesperson for Hobbs told Politico, while a representative for Benson said the secretary of State discussed the election as well as the days before Jan. 6.
The forged documents sent in the wake of the election, which were obtained through a public records request, purport to show all of both state's electors, 16 in Michigan and 11 in Arizona, casting their votes for Trump and Pence.
The Arizona group that sent the forgery, called "AZ Protect the Vote," is a sovereign citizen group. Because their letter included the state seal, the state sought legal action, referring the case to the attorney general and writing a cease and desist letter instructing the group to stop using the insignia. Lori Osiecki, who leads the group, told the Arizona Republic in Dec. 2020 that a meeting with Rudy Giuliani helped convince her to send the forgery. The Michigan group did not use the state seal.
Politico noted in its piece that the Jan. 6 committee is looking into state-level efforts to overturn the election. The forged certificates of ascertainment are among "thousands" of records state officials have turned over to the committee. "We want to let the public see and hear from those individuals who conducted elections in those states," Chairman Bennie Thompson (D-Miss.) told the outlet.
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Is sending forged documents to the National Archives a felony?
You'd think it would be some kind of federal crime.
I don't know, but it surely is stupidity....
trumpsters complicit in this attempt at fraud should be removed from office, prosecuted, and prohibited from voting in future elections.
I hope so.
It sounds like some kind of fraud attempt, but I suppose it depends on how the documents were represented and for what purpose. I don’t think the National Archives has anything to do with certifying elections, so I doubt they were presented for that purpose.They’re also not a crime enforcement organization, so the documents aren’t evidence.
It sounds to me like someone is trying to get a jump on writing a favorable history.
Not if involves trumpturd & company.
Since it happened during his 'presidency' nothing can be done about it - and now that he's a private citizen - I bet nothing should do nothing about it either.
Did you ever see the movie "Judge Dredd" with Rocky Stallone? He has a line where he says "I am the LAW!" I imagine trmp saying that
Butt, we still see rightwingers claiming Trump won!
And others that claim he is in the past so we should forget about him.
Dick Nixon looks like a choir boy next to trmp
He IS in the past.
We SHOULD forget about him.
But then he does something loud and stupid to insert himself in the public discussion again.
Hard to do when he never goes away.
tricky dick should have died in club fed. that might have curtailed some of the rwnj shenanigans the taxpayers have been victimized by in the past 50 years.
I agree. The whole blatant corruption that went down back in the 70's has set the tone for later administrations. Roger Stone was one of Nixon's buds wasn't he? He just used the same playbook he used for Nixon.
"Roger Stone was one of Nixon's buds wasn't he? He just used the same playbook he used for Nixon."
Was that a rhetorical question?
I'm betting he has the 'man' from Mar-A-Lardo as a tramp stamp.
LOL!
Portrait tats are the most difficult tats to pull off. As much as I view Stone as a traitorous SOB and laugh at his tramp stamp, whatever ink master he used is a true master of his craft.
18 U.S.C. § 371—CONSPIRACY TO DEFRAUD THE UNITED STATES
Although this language is very broad, cases rely heavily on the definition of "defraud" provided by the Supreme Court in two early cases, Hass v. Henkel , 216 U.S. 462 (1910), and Hammerschmidt v. United States , 265 U.S. 182 (1924). In Hass the Court stated:
923. 18 U.S.C. § 371—Conspiracy to Defraud the United States | JM | Department of Justice
Sounds like a conspiracy to commit fraud
Yeah, baby!
I am at a loss. Why did they think this was OK? Why did they think they would get away with it? Just WHY?
Because apart from a few insurrectionists getting mildly bitch-slapped for their part on Jan. 6th, everyone else has avoided any kind of punishment for any illegal activities associated with Trump's stupid 'stop the steal' bullshit. The abundantly obvious lack of consequences has made them all feel quite safe in regard to their past, present, and future illegal shenanigans.
no worries. all the info on the insurrectionists is in the public record and online. names, addresses, and mug shots.
Republican strategy has always been the same....REWRITE HISTORY to their favor.
Because they are Trumpturds.....nuff said.
Calling Judge Roy Bean ''The Hanging Judge''.
So, it might be a little disingenuous to call this a “Trump Group.” If Trump has no actual connection to these people, he might have a libel suit against Rolling Stone. The headline, at least, strongly implies a connection. I wouldn’t put it past him to file. He looooves sending his lawyers to court.
I would imagine the Archives probably receives bogus submissions all the time. I doubt they pursue criminal or civil actions over it. It’s hard to see how it would be worth the trouble and cost. They probably just reject them.
Believers of the QAnon conspiracy have begun to spread rumours that Donald Trump will become president again on 4 Match, as the theory merges with other online extremist movements.
QAnon supporters have been circulating the theory that the Republican will return to office in recent days, with many suggesting 4 March as a final day of reckoning for the former president’s opponents.
The rumours, which have been shared on TikTok, come amid reports QAnon was moving towards theories promoted by The Sovereign Citizen movement.
According to reports, the sovereign citizen theory has been shared among Trump and QAnon supporters on TikTok, who believe Mr Trump will become the 19th president of the United States on 4 March - the date inaugurations were carried out before 1933.
“There was some crossover between QAnon and the sovereign citizen movement before, but I've seen sovereign citizen ideas about the United States being a ‘corporation’ become more popular within QAnon and beyond in January,” Mr View added.
QAnon supporters, who believe Mr Trump was undermined by a cabal of satanist paedophiles while in office, allegedly viewed the storming of the Capitol on 6 January as the coming of a “storm”.
"56% of Republicans believe that QAnon, a far-right conspiracy theory, is mostly or partly true"
" One in three Republicans (33%) say they believe the QAnon theory about a conspiracy among deep-state elites is “ mostly true ,”
I think its safe to say if any of the Sovereign Citizens lean towards a political party it would be towards their fellow white conservative Christian Trump supporting Republicans.
... and everybody knows exactly where they are on sunday mornings.
And here on NT any other time.
Well the Michigan document were 'certified' by Kathy Bender, who is a member of the Republican National Committe and a couple of them are GOP elected officials and another is Chairman of a GOP 'grassroots' organization that all on the Big Lie...
I just cannot believe that so many do not see this as a big deal.
Just because it didn't work, doesn't mean those who tried to do this shouldn't be held accountable in some way.
The National Archives became suspicious when they reviewed them and they were written in crayon.
lol
I believe that they said one was done in ''sharpie''....Something about a map.
... with an inordinate amount of grammar, spelling, and punctuation errors.
They also came with pop ups.
I love pop-ups!
I just found out something that shows that Pence knew certain states were going to submit forged documents. It was in the wording he said prior to the EC votes going on the record. The statement read by every VP has been the same until 2020, where if you read between the lines, Pence was officially stating that he knew that fake documents would be submitted and we now know they were.
Could you explain in depth on this please. I read the Pence speech and I take it as more a repudiation of the Eastman memo where it was outlined the six steps for Pence to overturn the election. The phrases that really stand out to me for this are :
Snuffy, your block quote is actually of the 'Dear Colleague' letter that Pence sent Congress the morning of Jan. 6th.
Here is a comparison of the parliamentary statement change made by Pence:
This is the speech Pence actually made when re-opening the Senate AFTER the insurrection:
Today was a dark day in the history of the United States Capitol. But thanks to the swift efforts of U.S. Capitol Police, federal, state and local law enforcement, the violence was quelled. The Capitol is secured, and the people's work continues.
We condemn the violence that took place here in the strongest possible terms. We grieve the loss of life in these hallowed halls, as well as the injuries suffered by those who defended our Capitol today. And we will always be grateful to the men and women who stayed at their posts to defend this historic place.
To those who wreaked havoc in our Capitol today, you did not win. Violence never wins. Freedom wins. And this is still the people's house. And as we reconvene in this chamber, the world will again witness the resilience and strength of our democracy, for even in the wake of unprecedented violence and vandalism at this Capitol, the elected representatives of the people of the United States have assembled again on the very same day to support and defend the Constitution of the United States.
So may God bless the lost, the injured and the heroes forged on this day. May God bless all who serve here and those who protect this place. And may god bless the United States of America.
Let's get back to work.
I hope that's 'in depth' enough for you.
Thank you for the correction. I did a google search for the Mike Pence speech to Congress and that is what it returned to me identified as what Pence said before the EC vote counting.
You're welcome.
Now, what say you about the implications of Pence's change to the parliamentary statement?
A lot of lawyerize? I'll admit I didn't dig too deeply into the EC vote counting. I thought the "false" documents that some groups submitted were only sent to the National Archives and not to Congress. It does kind of read like Pence had advance knowledge of those documents and was maybe saying that Congress would only accept the forms from state officials?
Thank you for having my back on this, Respect.
Well sending them to the National Archives is defrauding the US. So, there's that.
At least one of the GOP groups that sent forged documents to the National Archives and Congress has stated that the Trump campaign requested that they do so.
So, there's that too...
I'm wondering why Michigan's AG is the only one that referred this crime to the DOJ. I also wonder if the RNC is going to DO anything about the fact that many of those who perpetrated this crime are officers in their organization.
You're welcome. My stint as a paralegal taught me to do research on the fly and has served me well.
Though as Snuffy mentioned, the 'legalize' is exasperating. I just want them to speak English and SPIT IT OUT already. Sheesh! It's like they WANT to make it unintelligible.
"I do know the position you're in," Quayle told Pence, according to the book [Peril]. "I also know what the law is. You listen to the parliamentarian. That's all you do. You have no power."
Based on the content of the change Pence made, it looks to me like he is covering his ass and hiding behind the skirts of the Parliamentarian.
According to NBC News, Rudy hands down his pants is responsible for the planning and execution of this. If an immediate arrest warrant is not issued, then I give up.