Alabama considers bill that makes doctors' treatment of transgender youth a felony

The bill also argues that studies have shown that "pre-pubescent children who claim a gender identity different from their biological sex will ultimately identify with their biological sex by young adulthood or sooner when supported through their natural puberty."

Sounds logical

I've witnessed this in kids my daughter has gone to school with, one of those that changed their mind later ended in a suicide.

It is tragic. Do you happen to know if the idea was the child's own, or was it a progressive teacher who planted the seed? I suppose they all do that without parents knowing.

one of those that changed their mind later ended in a suicide.

Kids don't know what they're doing that's why we don't allow them to make important decisions without oversite and some parents are crazy so we need laws to limit the damage they can do.. When I was a kid (pre-pubescent) there were boys who felt more comfortable with the girls and they played the games girls play and there were girls who played with the boys, we used to call them Tomboys. Once Puberty hit most of these girls and boys started acting more like their biological sex, some didn't but most didn't become gay. Most of the Butch girls I've ever known are not Lesbian and most of the effeminate guys are not gay. Looking back at the people I grew up with and who became gay/lesbian there's only one who seemed that way as a kid but you can't assign gayness because they seem that way because there were many others who seemed that way who aren't. Most of the people who turned out gay/lesbian showed no indication including my sister. We shouldn't make or allow kids to make irreversible decisions early in life because they are still changing, kids are experimental and easily influenced so they need to be protected. Imagine if we forced every child to permanently chose their sexuality at age ten, how many gay/lesbian people would be stuck as straight ? My sister didn't become Lesbian till she was 30 after she got divorced from her husband. We need to let kids be who they want to be but we need to hold off on the surgical and chemical alterations till they are adults. We make them wait to drive a car or drink alcohol why would we allow them or their parents to make an irreversible decision at such a young age.

It's a strange phenomenon we've encountered over the past few years. Unlike anything we've known in human history. Suddenly, young children want to change their sex and buried in the details is a progressive teacher.

buried in the details is a progressive teacher.

Or a Virtue Signaling Parent who imagines raising a trans child as a Progressive Badge of Honor. 

I can't imagine anything more disgusting.

I don't think it was a teacher's influence. I've watched kids just do things because they think it's the cool thing to do at the time and somehow convince their parents that it's something they want... I realize that it's always kind of been that way, but this isn't like smoking a cigarette or a joint or wearing a specific pair of jeans or shoes. 

I've watched kids just do things because they think it's the cool thing to do at the time

And this is the time when this terrible nonsense may seem cool!

Kids don't know what they're doing that's why we don't allow them to make important decisions without oversite and some parents are crazy so we need laws to limit the damage they can do.. When I was a kid (pre-pubescent) there were boys who felt more comfortable with the girls and they played the games girls play and there were girls who played with the boys, we used to call them Tomboys.

I am still a Tomboy. Rarely wear makeup, in jeans when I go out, prefer dress slacks to skirts, work on cars, work on home improvements, etc. I only had a handful of female friends throughout my life [a couple since middle / high school] and they're all still my friends, because we're a lot alike. I don't do "drama" because it's silly and I really don't overthink situations, which is [IMO] pretty common for the "girly girls".

My sister didn't become Lesbian till she was 30 after she got divorced from her husband.

She was likely always a lesbian, but didn't come out until she was 30. There was a lot of negativity and terrible things that happened to people that came out as gay or lesbian... for a very long time. Bad things still happen occasionally, but it's far rarer than ever before. 

Exactly.

She was likely always a lesbian, but didn't come out until she was 30.

I don't think so, I asked her back when she started to see her girlfriend and she said it just happened. She's only ever been with one woman but she's been with her over 20 years, I think it's the person more than the sex for her. Our high school in the early 80's had a few openly gay and lesbian students and they didn't have any trouble. We had a lesbian art teacher and a gay heath teacher and one of the vice principles was gay. I had a couple high school friends Dave and Paul who had a band and one day Dave told me he was quitting the band because Paul and the keyboard player Chris were gay. He was afraid people would think he was gay too, I told him fuck that you've been friends with Paul since first grade besides everyone knows you're not gay. That was in tenth grade and he stayed in the band till Paul went away to College and nobody ever accused Dave of being gay and Paul never lost any friends for being gay. Chris on the other hand was a jerk and I never liked him and not many people did and he ended up going to jail when he was 28 for having a sexual relationship with a 15 year old boy, so fuck him.

I think it's the person more than the sex for her.

That's possible. Most people are physically attracted to one more than the other though. That's why I asked my daughter about how she felt kissing the first two people she kissed. Hell, I've "played in the minor leagues" but found out by doing so that I am physically attracted to men more than women... however, boobs are kind of fantastic. I love having my own boobs.

Hmm... having a penis and boobs... I can see the potential desire to possess both.

Opponents of the bill have argued the decision should be between the child, parents and doctors.

But there are idiot parents that will do whatever their "little angel" wants at the moment they say they want it and then force others to do the same.

Those who support the bill believe a person should have to be a legal adult in order to make the decision to undergo gender-changing medical procedures.

The bill does have an exception for cases where children are shown to have "medically verifiable disorder of sex development" and need these treatments.

If the bill is passed, it would also make it a Class C felony for school employees or administrators to tell a child not to tell their parents if they don't believe their gender matches their biological sex.

Good. It bothers me, because pre-puberty, I wanted to be a boy... I'm glad that this insanity wasn't a topic in the early 80s... or the 90s.

It bothers me, because pre-puberty, I wanted to be a boy..

I assume nobody influenced you to think that way?

Nope. I remember being livid that I couldn't pee standing up without making a mess. I remember being livid that I started my menses 3 months after my 10th birthday. I remember being frustrated when trying to find jeans that fit me well when I had a tiny waist and big hips (NOW I MISS THAT TINY WAIST and those struggles!). I remember thinking it not being fair having to wear a bra, or covering my top half at all. I was aggravated that I couldn't play BASEBALL on the HS team [the excuse from the HS was that there's girls SOFTBALL... NOT the same]. It aggravated me that people were cruel, because I hung out with guys and worked on cars. It pissed me off when I was constantly overlooked as being knowledgeable on certain subjects simply because I have a pair of boobs. It was very degrading when called a whore [even without doing anything with anyone] simply because I WOULDN'T sleep with a guy that I was in vocational school with... And I got really bothered by how people [including my parents] told me how girls should act, like somehow the way I act / acted was wrong. BUT... I kept pushing though and now all of those things are acceptable in most instances. 

I would NEVER tell my kids that they should act a certain way because of their biological sex, but I would NEVER allow them to take hormones or other things that would hinder their growth... that's up to them when they're ADULTS. I would NEVER tell my kids that they have to follow "societal norms" to appease the masses, but I also would carefully question certain claims. Example: in the 7th grade, my daughter claimed she was a lesbian. I don't care if that's the case, I really don't. Her first "relationship" was with a girl [a very cute one at that]; that girl was my daughter's first kiss. I asked my daughter how it made her feel. She simply said, "It didn't really make me feel anything." A year or so later, she started dating a boy. I asked her if she'd kissed him yet. At first, she was embarrassed, but then told me she had. So... I asked her the same question, "How did it make you feel"? She told me that she got tingly all over. So... that's what I mean by carefully questioning certain claims. The girl she "dated" has only liked girls and was disgusted by kissing a boy. But sometimes, that's what you have to let them do... figure it out. I'm just glad that my kids understand that they can talk to me about ANYTHING.

I would NEVER tell my kids that they have to follow "societal norms"

That's a tough call for me. I think most of the boomers agree with you.


 So... that's what I mean by carefully questioning certain claims. The girl she "dated" has only liked girls and was disgusted by kissing a boy. But sometimes, that's what you have to let them do... figure it out. 

I see what you mean. I do believe in live and let live.


I'm just glad that my kids understand that they can talk to me about ANYTHING.

Then you shouldn't have many problems with them.

Then you shouldn't have many problems with them.

I don't. My kids are awesome.

My mother actually wanted me to be a "little princess."

My mother actually wanted me to be a "little princess."

Sometimes that works. I had an old girlfriend who was a Tomboy. I kind of thought our relationship ended badly, however I met her outside the registry about a year ago. She was dressed to the 9's. She said to me "I want to thank you for something - believe it or not you're the one who taught me how to dress." She reminded me that I still had a friend.

It sometimes happens!

I know how to dress for certain occasions; I still prefer to dress in jeans if acceptable.

I think that has become the norm. There is no problem with that.

It bothers me, because pre-puberty, I wanted to be a boy

I think that is pretty common with Tomboys. They want to play with the boys because they like doing the things boys do more than they like girly things. However a Tomboy wanting to be a boy has nothing to do with sexuality it has more to do with the desire to be accepted among the boys as one of the boys because they often face exclusion as a "Girl". 

No. I actually wanted a penis before the age of 15.

What the hell did you want one for? Hell, being a woman with all the right "stuff", you can have as many of those as you want.

Sometimes it becomes a man's worst enemy.

It makes taking a piss easy though. I remember the girls always going home to pee but us guys would just go in an alley or behind a bush.

I wanted to be able to write my name in the snow damnit!

It is my opinion that prior to the age of consent, children should not have the absolute authority to make such an unalterable decision. However, it is also my opinion that the state should not have authority to criminalize these procedures.  

A number of studies have shown that individuals have an increased risk of attempted suicide

are 4-fold higher in gay and bisexual men, and twice as high in lesbian and bisexual women, compared with heterosexuals. ( King M, Semlyen J, Tai SS, et al. A systematic review of mental disorder, suicide, and deliberate self harm in lesbian, gay and bisexual people.  BMC Psychiatry . 2008;8:70.  

and

Surveys of transgender adults likewise suggest high rates of suicidal behavior in gender minorities: lifetime suicide attempts have been reported by 25% to 43% of respondents. ¹¹  While the self-identified samples may not be representative of transgender populations as a whole, the consistency of survey findings suggests lifetime suicide attempts are likely more prevalent in transgender individuals than in the US general population, in which suicide attempts are reported by fewer than 5% of adults. ¹²

You really should read the article. It is quite eye opening

The motivations for this bill I fear are strictly political and used as a wedge issue to impose bright lines where there are really gray areas that need to be considered on a case by case basis. This should not be a culture war issue. It is an issue because of people wanting to control other peoples actions when those actions have absolutely no societal or personal impact on those imposing the rule. The imposition of this rule I think would only make more children than already do attempt to and actually commit suicide because of the negative stereotype that it casts on them personally and societally.

The motivations for this bill I fear are strictly political and used as a wedge issue to impose bright lines where there are really gray areas that need to be considered on a case by case basis. This should not be a culture war issue. It is an issue because of people wanting to control other peoples actions when those actions have absolutely no societal or personal impact on those imposing the rule.

Well said. It's a cultural fear issue.

I don't love when government starts telling people what treatment they can or cannot seek, even though I concur somewhat with this proposal. Strong and unconditional support from family is probably the most important thing a kid going through this needs.

There is so much going on with the body and brain of a developing person, I really believe it's best to wait. Studies have shown that a strong majority of kids living with some kind of sexual dysphoria, grow out of it eventually. And then if, upon reaching adulthood, they decide they want to go through a surgical transition, then God bless them and the family should continue to support them.

An old and dear friend of mine transitioned from female to male in his 30s. It has been a handful of years now, and he seems pretty content. I hope it sticks.