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Opinion: America's shameful obsession with guns

  
Via:  Buzz of the Orient  •  last year  •  67 comments

By:   Scott Simon

Opinion: America's shameful obsession with guns
 

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BUZZ NOTE:  This is an npr story, and there is a two-minute radio broadcast which is word-for-word with the text below, that can be opened by clicking on the SEEDED CONTENT link just below this message that will take you to the original npr article.


S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



Opinion: America's shameful obsession with guns

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Pictures of the victims killed in a mass shooting on Monday at the Covenant School in Nashville, Tenn., are fixed to a memorial by Noah Reich (left) and David Maldonado, from the nonprofit Classroom of Compassion, near the school on Wednesday.  Seth Herald/Getty Images

There are nearly 400 million civilian-owned guns in the U.S., according to an estimate by the Small Arms Survey.

Americans often lament how everyone seems to be looking down at the screen of a smartphone, reading, texting, or watching videos. But in fact, we have more guns than smartphone users. We gripe about the time we spend in cars, backed up along highways and roadways, going to work, running errands, eating takeout between obligations, and lined up for gas. But there are more guns in America than registered motor vehicles.

Is that how we see ourselves? A country with more guns than cars or smartphones?

There have already been 131 mass shootings across America this year, according to  The Gun Violence Archive , a nonprofit group that tracks these incidents.

This week began, of course, with news of the  shooting  at the Covenant School in Nashville. Three adults were killed: Katherine Koonce, Cynthia Peak, and Mike Hill. And three students, nine-year olds: Evelyn Dieckhaus, Hallie Scruggs, and William Kinney.  Police killed  the shooter.

The Gun Violence Archive counted 646 mass shootings last year in the United States. This means that on average, four or more people, not including the shooter, were shot or killed in a single incident more than 12 times each week of 2022.

646 mass shootings. That's more than the number of movies released in American theaters last year, or triples hit in Major League Baseball games.

I spoke this week with Pam Simon. She is a former teacher who was shot in the arm and chest, near her heart, at an event for Rep. Gabrielle Giffords in 2011. 19 people were shot  that sunny morning  — including the Congresswoman. Six died, one of them a little girl. Pam Simon is no relation, but we met in Tucson after she was shot. We call each other "Cousin" now.

Pam says when she hears of some new mass shooting, "Each and every time it sucks the air out of me. ... I let myself be numb to avoid the full impact of the new horror unfolding. Yet I also feel duty bound to honor each life. After all, someone prayed for me or spent time thinking about me, an injured person they did not know ...

"All we know," Pam Simon told us, "is that there are new members of the 'club that no one wants to belong to' beginning the agonizing journey of grief."




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Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
1  seeder  Buzz of the Orient    last year

Comments are subject to the Confucius group RED BOX RULES which can be accessed by clicking on this link -> or by clicking on the Confucius group avatar at the top right of the article page above, either of which will take you to the Confucius group home page.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
2  seeder  Buzz of the Orient    last year

This is the opinion of an American, although I certainly agree with him.  But it is a lament only, because I'm sure the author knows, and I agree with it, that nothing can be done about it and it is just going to get worse and worse.  INO when a new POTUS is inaugurated, and other occasions when appropriate, instead of ending by saying God Bless America, what should be said is God Help America.  Is it a coincidence that the memorial in the image above looks very much like a target shooting range?

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
3  seeder  Buzz of the Orient    last year

I guess I can't blame you Americans for wishing this article to be wiped off the Front (Home) Page as soon as possible, because it is quite embarrassing, isn't it.   

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
4  Snuffy    last year

Why comment on another story about guns when the denizens of NT cannot have a discussion about the subject.  All you get are the two sides shouting their side without any discussion because any point brought up by one side is shot down (pun intended) by the other.  The discussion is very similar to that old beer commercial,  "Tastes Great, Less Filling".  

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
4.1  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Snuffy @4    last year

You're right, Snuffy, there is no use trying to find a solution to a problem that is simply going to get worse no matter what ANYBODY says, or whatever discussion there is.  All I can do is wish everyone good luck, luck that they don't become a victim.  I fear for my son and his young family in Wisconsin - wish he could find as good a job in his home country of Canada. 

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
4.1.1  Snuffy  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @4.1    last year

There are solutions that could be had, we need both a short-term (fast) solution and a longer-term solution.  Where we run into problems is that people don't want to discuss their ideas, if someone's ideas is not in agreement with the second person the second person will just point out how stupid the first person's idea is.  

As for  your son, the US is a fairly large country and he's not in any specific danger all the time.  I live in the fifth largest city in the US and I don't fear for my life daily.  You need to be aware of your surroundings (as everybody needs to) and pay attention to what is happening rather than being engrossed in something like your cell phone, but it's not all that bad all the time.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
4.1.2  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Snuffy @4.1.1    last year

I'm sure, Snuffy, that the people in a parade, those praying in their houses of worship, the ones shopping in a grocery store, the children and staff in the schools, etc etc etc didn't feel in any specific danger at the time.  I have three young grandchildren who are going to school in Wisconsin.   It's a very sad time indeed when anyone thinks that the increasing gun violence is something that just has to be tolerated.

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
4.1.3  Snuffy  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @4.1.2    last year

I'm not saying it should be tolerated.  We need both a short term (defined as fast) and a long-term solutions for this.  The short-term solution would be to put two armed guards in every school.  We have armed guards at government institutions, at CNN headquarters, etc.  Why not put them into schools as well?  The latest shooting, it was reported that she did not go to another school on her list as they did have armed guards.

The long-term solution would IMO be multi-pronged.  We need to get a better handle on mental health in this country, too many people are out on their own without the help they need.  We also have made it very difficult for them to go get help due to the stigma around mental health issues, we need better education for children and adults in this regard.  We need to better define HIPPA laws so that mental health providers can provide information to the NICS system as currently they do not citing HIPPA laws.  We need to better enforce the reporting requirements to HIPPA,  still too many states are lax in getting this information in.  There should be among other things a gun safety class taught in every grade from kindergarten thru 12th, every year to help get the knowledge in,  as well as outreach and informational commercials for the adults.  We should strengthen the laws around gun storage so that children cannot just find & pick up guns.  We need prosecutors to stop plea bargaining away gun charges and we need to stop reducing sentencing for ANY gun crime.

Bad things can happen at any time in any place.  You can slip and fall in the bathroom and break your neck,  I can drive to the grocery store and be hit & taken out by a drunk driver.  There's no way to fully prevent bad things from happening.  As I said, I live in the fifth largest city in the US and I do not worry about gun violence around me any more than I worry about any other thing that can happen.  I feel that to elevate the gun violence above any other issue is too entrenched in politics rather than the reality of life around us.  Gun violence is not even the leading cause of death in the US (for all ages here), that is poisoning.  

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
4.1.4  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Snuffy @4.1.3    last year

I just read that being shot had just become the biggest reason for children's deaths in the USA.  I think the NRA should be sued into oblivion for glorification of gun use.  I blame the "good" gun owners who don't back greater gun restrictions, because, after all, they don't commit gun violence and they lock up their guns and do all the right things themselfes - that is so selfish.  How do stricter gun laws prevent them from being responsible, but they won't agree with them.  The mental health issue isn't going to go away because parents and family members hide the problems they see in their "loved ones" so red flag laws are a joke.  Anyone involved in gun sales isn't going to agree with stricter laws - after all, the more guns they sell the more money they can make - it's the American dream.  IMO it's the American nightmare.  

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
4.1.5  Snuffy  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @4.1.4    last year

Yes, gun violence has overtaken car accidents as the number 1 cause of death in children, at a rate of 6 per 100,000 children.  

But rather than get  yourself worked up and get your blood pressure high, what "laws" would you like to see enacted?  How about some constructive conversation?  You say the NRA should be sued, but they are an organization that works to support the 2nd Amendment.  Seems to me if they can be sued then there are a lot of other groups that can also be sued for their "support/assistance" in single mother families, obesity, drug addiction, etc.  There are not enough courts to handle all of that, and it's counter-productive IMO.

Next you want to blame the responsible gun owners because they don't support greater gun restrictions.  Yet most of them are not the problem.  That's like blaming everybody age 16 and up for the people who speed.  What new gun laws would prevent this from happening again?  Because it wasn't all that long ago that the 2015 Paris attacks happened and I believe the gun laws in France are quite a bit more restrictive than here in the US.    And let's not forget the biggest massacre at a school in US history and it didn't involve any guns at all.  People want to try to blame the gun but the gun is not going to do anything unless a person behind it takes action.

So we can either work on the person behind it,  or we can revoke the 2nd Amendment and ban ALL guns AND send the police & military door to door to confiscate ALL guns as well as 3-D printers.  Then we better build an even bigger wall all around the country to stop ALL  smuggling because that's the only way that gun violence can be stopped.

 
 
 
shona1
PhD Quiet
4.1.6  shona1  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @4.1.2    last year

Morning Buzz..one of my rellies has just landed in Dallas the other day..he has no qualms about going to the States and neither would I.

More likely to get splattered on the road because they drive on the wrong side..

You would have about as much chance of being shot there as being grabbed by a croc here...

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
4.1.7  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  shona1 @4.1.6    last year

Thanks for my first laugh of the morning with your comment about driving on the wrong side.  In the USA there are on average a fraction MORE than one mass shooting per day, and that doesn't count all the ones that AREN'T mass shootings.  I used to love travelling the USA - over the decades I have been to more places there than a lot of Americans and even owned a golf condo in Florida, and now I won't step one foot in that country.  Even when I owned the golf condo the next door neighbour proudly brought his pistol in to show me, asked if I wanted to hold it and I wouldn't touch it.  And that's after my being my high school rifle marksman champion.  The only guns I've ever owned were a water pistol and a cap gun when I was a kid. 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
4.1.8  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Snuffy @4.1.5    last year

I see that Shona1 has commented.  Why not ask her?  Australia and New Zealand took big steps and it helped.  

 
 
 
shona1
PhD Quiet
4.1.9  shona1  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @4.1.8    last year

Arvo buzz..what works here won't work there..

We have a completely different mentality when it comes to guns...yes we have guns and we are very well armed..but within reason...

That does not include AK what evers which seem to be the weapon of choice in the States.

We have no need for these types of weapons and hope we never do..

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
4.1.10  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  shona1 @4.1.9    last year

Of course, Australia is a CIVILIZED country.

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
4.1.11  Snuffy  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @4.1.10    last year
Of course, Australia is a CIVILIZED country.

So by inference the US is not a civilized country.  Nice insult...   sigh    

Here are some facts on mass shootings.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
4.1.12  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Snuffy @4.1.11    last year

I'm denied access to open that link.  Maybe I'm too uncivilized to read what it says. 

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
4.1.13  Snuffy  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @4.1.12    last year

Too bad that is blocked for you.  I'll search to see if I can find the info anywhere else as it has a lot of statistics and information.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
4.1.14  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Snuffy @4.1.13    last year

If it isn't too long you could copy and post it, if not here then on a PN to me. 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
5  seeder  Buzz of the Orient    last year

642a1c35a31057c4b4b86d02.jpeg

 
 
 
MonsterMash
Sophomore Quiet
6  MonsterMash    last year

Domestic violence and criminal activity make up 80 to 88 percent of mass shooting incidents in the U.S. with four or more fatally injured victims.

In the U.S., mass public shootings account for less than 0.5% of all gun deaths every year. 

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
7  charger 383    last year

easier to load up serfs that have nothing to defend themselves with 

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
8  Nerm_L    last year

NPR cites 400 million guns in the United States; not 400 million assault rifles.  And private citizens do not own all those 400 million guns.  That number includes guns owned and used by government.  Government, at all levels, in the United States is also acquiring more guns.

When government apparently believes more guns  is the solution then how do we address guns as a problem?  Joe Biden blames civilian private access and ownership of guns while he is surrounded by men with guns who have been trained to kill.  Why doesn't Biden disarm?

If we are going to ban guns of one type or another then the ban must apply to government, as well.  Limiting bans to private ownership of guns only becomes a political power play.  Allowing only the government to own and access guns is unacceptable.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
8.1  Tessylo  replied to  Nerm_L @8    last year

But those assault rifles must be a very large number in the US. in that 400 million.  Where are your stats/citation regarding the 400 million including guns 'owned and used by government'?  Sounds like bullshit to me.  That number sounds way off and made up.

So why doesn't the former 'president' give up his SS detail?  He's an alleged billionaire, let him pay for it.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
8.1.1  Nerm_L  replied to  Tessylo @8.1    last year
But those assault rifles must be a very large number in the US. in that 400 million.  Where are your stats/citation regarding the 400 million including guns 'owned and used by government'?  Sounds like bullshit to me.  That number sounds way off and made up.

NPR doesn't provide stats.  Why should I?

So why doesn't the former 'president' give up his SS detail?  He's an alleged billionaire, let him pay for it.

So, the problem of guns is really about money?  Would the former President be more controllable if government guns weren't protecting him?

Perhaps the source of the 'gun culture' in the United States is the government.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
8.1.2  Tessylo  replied to  Nerm_L @8.1.1    last year

So you just make it up as you go along then.

Thanks for the admission.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Junior Guide
8.1.3  Right Down the Center  replied to  Tessylo @8.1.2    last year
Thanks for the admission.

You seem to be making up an admission that was never there.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
8.1.4  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Nerm_L @8.1.1    last year
"Perhaps the source of the 'gun culture' in the United States is the government."

Let's pursue that concept.  Nobody can deny that America is a warring nation, has how many (800?) military bases around the world, recently increased by 4 in Philippines,  But to maintain such a broad number of bases, and be prepared to take part in wars (how many in the past couple hundred years - only 16 years WITHOUT being involved in wars) America requires the manpower.  How could it maintain its bases, if not be prepared for an all-out war, if America were a nation of pacifists?  So America REQUIRES that its people be gun lovers and gun-ready.  They can't be afraid to use guns.  They can't be anti-gun, so the American government NEEDS people who support massive gun use.  Think of Arlo Guthrie's song Alice's Restaurant...

"I looked and felt my best when I went in that morning. 'Cause I wanted to
Look like the all-American kid from New York City, man I wanted, I wanted
To feel like the all-, I wanted to be the all American kid from New York,
And I walked in, sat down, I was hung down, brung down, hung up, and all
Kinds o' mean nasty ugly things. And I walked in and sat down and they gave
Me a piece of paper, said, "Kid, see the psychiatrist, room 604."

And I went up there, I said, "Shrink, I want to kill. I mean, I wanna, I
Wanna kill. Kill. I wanna, I wanna see, I wanna see blood and gore and
Guts and veins in my teeth. Eat dead burnt bodies. I mean kill, Kill,
Kill, kill. " And I started jumpin up and down yelling, "kill, kill, " and
He started jumpin up and down with me and we was both jumping up and down
Yelling, "KILL, KILL." And the sergeant came over, pinned a medal on me,
Sent me down the hall, said, "You're our boy.""
 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
8.1.5  Texan1211  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @8.1.4    last year
Nobody can deny that America is a warring nation

When we are attacked or provoked, we respond.

I am betting that much of the free world is kind of glad America exists. You know, saving the world from Nazism and stuff.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
8.1.6  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Texan1211 @8.1.5    last year

America was attacked in 1812 and 1941 (and the Spanish American War?  I never studied American History.)  It was provoked in the Cuban missile crisis, but that needed no war.  Was America provoked by Iraq? by Korea? by Vietnam?  It helped other nations end the European WW2 because Hitler wasn't going to stop with Europe.  He was already listing American Jews.

wp4286911.jpg

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
8.1.7  Texan1211  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @8.1.6    last year

I do believe that both World Wars were won with enormous help, leadership, men, women, blood, sweat and tears of America and Americans.

I don't think there is any question the outcome of both wars would have been vastly different without American intervention.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
8.1.8  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Texan1211 @8.1.7    last year

I make no argument about that.  What I did was point out that for America to have the power and wherewithall to fight and win those wars required a certain mindset, preparation and capability to do so, and perhaps America's "gun love" is a necessity for that to occur.  I also will not argue with the fact that Canada relies on America for its defence.  All I have done is that America's prowess and existence as the "Policeman of the World" may have necessitated the gun situation that exists in America.  That is why I do not believe that the gun violence that is happening will ever alleviate.  I think it's going to worsen.  In a way it's your raison d'etre.

 
 
 
Hallux
Masters Principal
8.2  Hallux  replied to  Nerm_L @8    last year
And private citizens do not own all those 400 million guns.  That number includes guns owned and used by government.

From the text: "There are nearly 400 million civilian-owned guns in the U.S., according to an estimate by the Small Arms Survey.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
8.2.1  Tessylo  replied to  Hallux @8.2    last year

Thanks for the truth instead of whatever Nerm decided to make up/bullshit.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
8.2.2  Nerm_L  replied to  Hallux @8.2    last year
From the text: "There are nearly 400 million civilian-owned guns in the U.S., according to an estimate by the Small Arms Survey.

The FBI is a civilian agency.  The Secret Service is a civilian agency.  Police officers are civilian government employees.

The context of the NPR claim is non-military owned guns.  NPR is excluding the military gun culture.

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
8.2.3  Snuffy  replied to  Nerm_L @8.2.2    last year
The FBI is a civilian agency.  The Secret Service is a civilian agency.  Police officers are civilian government employees. The context of the NPR claim is non-military owned guns.  NPR is excluding the military gun culture.

I'm not sure that is correct.  Please see post 8.3.  I believe that the FBI and Secret Service would also fall under law enforcement as does police officers.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
8.2.4  Nerm_L  replied to  Snuffy @8.2.3    last year
I'm not sure that is correct.  Please see post 8.3.  I believe that the FBI and Secret Service would also fall under law enforcement as does police officers.

If law enforcement is excluded from the cited stat, then the number of civilian guns in the United States is much higher than NPR is reporting.  Law enforcement is civilian and not part of the military.

Also keep in mind that the cited stat includes gun stores.  How many unsold guns are included in that 400 million figure?

How many guns do colleges and universities own?  Are ROTC guns civilian or military?  Starter pistols are guns; are they excluded?  There's even Olympic events that include shooting.

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
8.2.5  Snuffy  replied to  Nerm_L @8.2.4    last year

I said I wasn't sure that your post was correct and I provided the evidence with stats to support what I was saying.  I have no further knowledge on what you are saying.  You stated that NPR does not provide stats so it seems to me that you are attempting to pull stats from nothing with your statements.  At this point I have to ask that you either provide some evidence to back up your statements or move on as all you are doing right now is beating the horse by continuing the ask questions like you are.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
8.2.6  Nerm_L  replied to  Snuffy @8.2.5    last year
I said I wasn't sure that your post was correct and I provided the evidence with stats to support what I was saying.  I have no further knowledge on what you are saying.  You stated that NPR does not provide stats so it seems to me that you are attempting to pull stats from nothing with your statements.  At this point I have to ask that you either provide some evidence to back up your statements or move on as all you are doing right now is beating the horse by continuing the ask questions like you are.

NPR didn't provide evidence.  Why should I?

NPR explicitly stated that there are 400 million civilian-owned guns in the United States.  That means guns that are not owned by the military.  If it's not military then it's civilian.  Guns privately owned by members of the military are civilian guns.

So, if civilian guns are to be banned, doesn't that include all civilian guns?  Doesn't that mean only the military would be allowed to have guns?  If civilian assault weapons are banned doesn't that mean only the military would be allowed to have assault weapons?  If assault weapons are weapons of war, as Joe Biden claims, then only the military should be allowed to have assault weapons.   A civilian ban would apply to all civilian activities.

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
8.2.7  charger 383  replied to  Nerm_L @8.2.4    last year
     "Are ROTC guns civilian or military?"
ROTC and JROTC drill rifles are on government property books and are covered by security regulations, and will not fire.  Some schools have their own drill and target rifles   (many years ago I was Quartermaster at a JROTC School and that job included being Property Book Officer)

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
8.3  Snuffy  replied to  Nerm_L @8    last year

Hallux is correct, that number is the guns in civilian hands.

According to this site, in the US there are 393.3 million firearms in civilian hands, 4,535,380 firearms in military hands and 1,160,000 in law enforcement.

I also found this site to be informative, it shows the number of guns by country.  Has an interesting interactive map.  I didn't realize that China has almost 50 million firearms in civilian hands.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
9  Jeremy Retired in NC    last year

I heard something the other day that makes perfect sense.  "A rock in bad hands killed Abel.  A rock in good hands killed Goliath".  (hint - it's not about the rock)

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
9.1  charger 383  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @9    last year

I will remember and use that

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
9.2  Snuffy  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @9    last year

But the left doesn't want to talk about the rock, they want to ban the rock.

For those without a sense of humor, I substituted rock for gun.

They also don't want to talk about after effects if they do somehow ban the so-called "assault rifle" and it makes little difference down the road.  What ever will they do then?

And suggestions like putting armed guards in schools, why do they continue to shout down an immediate solution that can save lives? 

If they re-enact the assault rifle ban from 1994 and stop sales of new rifles, what will that really do?  There are somewhere around 25 million AR-15's in public hands and how many similar weapons?  And why do they also conveniently forget about the worst school massacre in the US (Bath, MI) that used no gun at all?

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
9.2.1  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Snuffy @9.2    last year
But the left doesn't want to talk about the rock, they want to ban the rock.

Because they don't want to deal with the real problem.  

They also don't want to talk about after effects if they do somehow ban the so-called "assault rifle" and it makes little difference down the road.

Their problem is they can't define what an "assault rifle" is.  Maybe if they could do that then they might have a point.  This is what happens when the ignorant are given a microphone.  

And suggestions like putting armed guards in schools, why do they continue to shout down an immediate solution that can save lives? 

Because it goes against their anti-gun rants.  Somehow they still believe these moronic "gun free zone" signs are enough.  Reality is, they don't care about the kids.  They want control.

If they re-enact the assault rifle ban from 1994 and stop sales of new rifles, what will that really do?

When they see it's not about the "rock" they will find something else to blame.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
9.2.2  Jack_TX  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @9.2.1    last year
Because they don't want to deal with the real problem.  

The real problem is:

  1. Not singular (problems, not problem)
  2. Complicated.
  3. Damned near impossible to solve even if everybody agrees.
  4. The subject of vast variance of opinion.

So no.  Nobody wants to get anywhere near that.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
9.2.3  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Jack_TX @9.2.2    last year

Instead they want to go after the easy item instead of putting in the work and 

  1. Acknowledge the problem(s)
  2. Develop a plan to work through the problem(s)
 
 
 
afrayedknot
Junior Quiet
9.3  afrayedknot  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @9    last year

Trite, given that too many children have been murdered, too many families are left to suffer, all while too many apologists attempt to justify. 

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
9.3.1  Snuffy  replied to  afrayedknot @9.3    last year

Any more trite than the "weapons of war" line that has been spouted so many times?

As far as I can find, the AR-15 that is in civilian hands in the US has never been used or issued by any military around the globe.  There were AR-15 prototypes tested in Vietnam but they were select fire and built to military specs and by no means were they what the civilian version is.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
9.3.2  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  afrayedknot @9.3    last year
Trite

Maybe to somebody who still thinks the "rock" is the problem.  

given that too many children have been murdered, too many families are left to suffer, all while too many apologists attempt to justify. 

And how much has been done to improve mental health access?  It would be nice if the same energy put into banning an inanimate object was actually done to help people.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
9.3.3  Tessylo  replied to  afrayedknot @9.3    last year

They're always defending the indefensible.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
9.4  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @9    last year

Rocks are used to build everything from buildings to bridges and highways.  What are you going to do with a military grade gun other than kill people?

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
9.4.1  Snuffy  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @9.4    last year

I do hope you are not trying to lump the AR-15 in as a military grade weapon.  If  you are then all I can do is laugh at you because the AR-15 is nowhere close to meeting military specs.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
9.4.2  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @9.4    last year
Rocks are used to build everything from buildings to bridges and highways.

You missed the whole point of the analogy.  

What are you going to do with a military grade gun other than kill people?

Are you actually trying to tell me an AR-15 is a "military grade" weapon?   

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
9.4.3  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @9.4.2    last year

I think you missed my counter point, and I am allowed to have one.  Guns are useless for any purpose beyond ending lives.  Rocks have numerous purposes.

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
9.4.4  Snuffy  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @9.4.3    last year
Guns are useless for any purpose beyond ending lives.

Harvesting food, protecting livestock from wild predators, entertainment.  How about a simple equalizer for a woman who is being targeted by a (generally larger and stronger) man?

Hard to believe the past several years have just been useless for me while I plink away at those little metal targets.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
9.4.5  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Snuffy @9.4.4    last year

That’s all about either ending life or threatening to end life.  Try again.  Maybe you can replace a broken table leg with an old rifle?

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
9.4.6  Snuffy  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @9.4.5    last year
That’s all about either ending life or threatening to end life.  Try again.  Maybe you can replace a broken table leg with an old rifle?

Ignoring the part where I said "entertainment"  Since when is plinking at little metal targets life ending?  But I see you've moved away from the "military grade gun" now, guess you just don't want to get laughed at.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
9.4.7  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @9.4.3    last year

I'll run with your premise.  Firearms are useless if there is NOBODY HOLDING IT. There is more to it that you seem to not understand.

In the analogy in 9, change "rock" to "weapon" (because that's what the rock is - a weapon).  By doing that the analogy reads:

"A WEAPON in bad hands killed Abel.  A WEAPON in good hands killed Goliath".  

Now I'm going to go way out on a limb and assume you understand this change and are familiar with two stories.  The first is of Cain and Abel.  In this story Cain killed his brother out of rage.  The second story is of David and Goliath.  David killed Goliath to protect his family, faithe and homeland.  

The weapon, had nothing to do with the outcome.  It was a simple object that without human interaction would have done nothing; just sat there (just like a firearm).  It is the intent of the person that picks up that weapon that determines how the weapon will be used.  Hence my hint - It's not about the rock (weapon).

Now there is the matter of you actually trying to tell me an AR-15 is a "military grade" weapon.  This is a misconception by the anti-gun fanatics that think because the AR-15 looks like an M-4 it is a "military grade" weapon.  Not by a long shot.  The appearance is where any comparison ends.  It's no more "military grade" than a Toyota Prius.  

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
9.4.8  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @9.4.5    last year

Why just one.......................

256

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
9.4.9  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @9.4.7    last year

(because that's what the rock is - a weapon)

24

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
9.4.10  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @9.4.8    last year

There you go!  Now you’re getting it.  Just look at all the useful things you can do with guns that don’t involve killing, threatening to kill, or “plinking at targets”.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
9.4.11  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @9.4.9    last year

I'll give you credit.  At least you admit you don't get it.  

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
9.4.12  Texan1211  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @9.4.3    last year
Guns are useless for any purpose beyond ending lives.  

False claim.

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
9.4.13  Snuffy  replied to  Texan1211 @9.4.12    last year

Except for those with zero knowledge on the subject.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
9.5  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @9    last year

The UK didn't try to deflect the problem to "mental illness".  When an extreme event happened they took extreme measures{

How the 1996 Dunblane Massacre Pushed the U.K. to Enact Stricter Gun Laws

A devastating attack at a Scottish primary school sparked national outcry—and a successful campaign for gun reform

“Laws were changed, handguns were banned and the level of gun violence in Britain is now one of the lowest in the world.” Since the 1996  Dunblane massacre , they pointed out, “[t]here have been no more school shootings” in the United Kingdom.

LINK ->

Appears to me that the result of the controls there indicated a very CIVILIZED behaviour,   Unfortunately I've noted that gun violence in the UK has been increasing recently.  I wonder why.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
9.5.1  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @9.5    last year

(DELETED)

(Deemed offensive by group administrator)

 
 

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