Does anyone here have anything to add, what their feelings are?

Heart-breaking is exactly what I thought when we first started to see Altadena from above. The scale of devastation is just hard to accept as reality. Many thousands of people are now homeless. Where will they go? They can’t live in high school gymnasiums forever. It’s one thing to rebuild a house, but a neighborhood with thousands of homes? Where do you even begin?

I’d also like to point out that I keep hearing about forestry management and shit, but as you can see, this isn’t a forest fire. It’s a whole suburb on fire.

I guess we will see thousands of tents go up and people will live in them just as we've seen the Gazans, and in other lands when such extensive devastation of neighbourhoods happen.  However, I assume that Billy Crystal and Nikki Hilton will be able to live in hotel suites. 

Doubt you will see tents like in Gaza . likely will see any number of campers and RVs , IF they are allowed while some owners do clean up. Some might decide to to just move on if they can not afford to rebuild .

 i think we are about to hear of a great displacement of many people  in the days yet to come , with many deciding to go elsewhere . But i also think there are many factors they will consider before making those choices .

Around 180,000 people have been displaced so far, and surely a lot of them are not going to have a place to go or afford to pay for lodging.  I think it's going to be one hell of a big problem.  It would be nice to see the kind of thing that happened in the Canadian maritime provinces when airliners already heading to the USA were not allowed to enter USA when 9/11 happened, and the planes were rerouted to maritime Canada.  Many local residents invited passengers to stay in their homes, something that even led to lasting friendships.  

Some might decide to to just move on if they can not afford to rebuild .

Quite possibly .. yet a 25 million dollar home in LA is less home value than it is land value - that land is still there, needs to be cleaned up - yet should still hold its value as beach front .. etc etc...?

Why are extraordinarily wealthy people still living in homes made of wood again?  Where are the build-in rooftop sprinklers and "fountains" that spray continuously in these situations? Said another way. . . where is the (damn) moat around the property? Steel wall barriers-risers? Time to think outside the (damn) 'box,' people!

The Story of the Three Little Pigs

Three pigs came to town on a warm summer’s day, and they said to each other what a nice place to stay.

They each made their plans with remarkable speed, and they went out to look for the things they would need.

The first little pig built a house made of straw, he thatched and he thatched till he couldn’t thatch any more.

He worked every day till his trotters were sore, then early one evening came a knock on the door.

"Little pig, little pig won’t you let me come in?" "No, no, no, by the hair on my chinny, chin, chin."

"Then I’ll huff and I’ll puff and I’ll blow your house in." No, no, no, Mr. Wolf I will not let you in."

So he huffed, and he puffed, and he huffed and he puffed and he blew the house in 

The second little pig built a house made of sticks,he paid close attention to all the fiddley bits.

With curtains on the windows and carpet on the floor, then early one evening came a knock on the door.

"Little pig, little pig won’t you let me come in?" "No, no, no, by the hair on my chinny, chin, chin."

"Then I’ll huff and I’ll puff and I’ll blow your house in." No, no, no, Mr. Wolf I will not let you in."

So he huffed, and he puffed, and he huffed, and he puffed, and he huffed and he puffed and he blew the house in

The third little pig built a house made of bricks, which he felt would be stronger than straw or than sticks.

He painted the ceiling and he painted the walls, then early one evening came a knock on the door.

"Little pig, little pig won’t you let me come in?" "No, no, no, by the hair on my chinny, chin, chin."

"Then I’ll huff and I’ll puff and I’ll blow your house in." No, no, no, Mr. Wolf I will not let you in."

So he huffed, and he puffed, and he huffed, and he puffed, and he huffed, and he puffed,

and he huffed and he puffed but it did not blow in

Now the three little pigs each had a house made of bricks, so they wouldn’t have to worry bout the wolf and his tricks.

They each found a wife from that same little town, and soon there were piglets all running around.

The land value will depend on the demand following this devastation.  I was wondering as well whether this event could bankrupt some insurance companies. 

Maybe as children they were never told the story about The Three Little Pigs. 

We're thinking on the same 'plane.'

I only saw your first paragraph when I wrote and posted my comment, but you're right.  

I was typing it as an add-on. . . and then I saw your response!   Loads of fun there! 

I admire your honesty.

This could be an interesting side discussion .

 from what i understand the state ins commissioner has put a moratorium on companies cancelling policies for now , those that did so before , like months ago , i would say dodged a bullet .

as for land value , if someone wishes to build , but they can insure it , whats the land really worth? 

 I think we will see the real estate market take a hit as well as property values over all all due to whether or not it can be insured as well as what would be insured . .

Then there is always this old dictum , something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it .

So the question would be, is someone willing to spend their money to build something in a location of proven risk that cannot be insured?  

I would say so, and of course one has to account for human nature , that dictates that in this case , if i cant insure , then the property is worth much less than some think.

thats why , in conjunction with what insurance companies are doing , not just in Ca , but nation wide when it comes to coverage for things like fires , tornados , hurricanes , floods, the real estate market is in for a major re adjustment as to values , and being insured is tied into being able to get a mortgage or loan for the property . financial institutions wont give a mortgage or property loan with out insurance .

interesting vicious circle there is what i see. 

Yep.  Maybe move to another country.

I was wondering as well whether this event could bankrupt some insurance companies.

Insurance companies have spent the last year or two canceling homeowners policies for completely invented reasons. I’m sure they couldn’t be happier with themselves right about now.

They made the right predictions for themselves, but can you imagine how many people have lost their homes and/or their businesses without insurance?

no thanks.

ill take my risk here.

Insurance companies have spent the last year or two canceling homeowners policies for completely invented reasons.

State Farm, one of California’s largest insurers, made headlines in the summer of 2024 when it canceled hundreds of homeowners’ policies in Pacific Palisades. The company cited the need to avoid “financial failure” due to the increasing frequency and severity of wildfires in California. We all need insurance companies, but they are not charitable organizations. They need to make a profit and that has become impossible is California.

So insurance is fine up until the point that "too many" people need to benefit from it?    If they have a limit on how many policies they will honor they should stop selling new policies when they hit that limit.  Not profitable enough that way?  Then go out of business and let someone else sell new policies. 

John, I will agree with Vic in one regard (but NOT that it is "impossible" to make a profit in Calofornia because State Farm simply 'trimmed its potential losses). . . that is, no sustainable corporation that wants to SURVIVE (they all do) will willingly SACRIFICE itself just to do good for all. It is in that moment of being squeezed that a hard turn even to doing WRONG that a company will act according to save itself . . .and, perhaps hope to fix the wrong again when "all clear" returns. 

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My auto insurance jumped this year $100 plus dollars! And the way I see it (and told the company before they told me it is what it is), even though the determiners think it is fair relative to the pool: I did not 'trouble' them with one incident since 2015 (when someone side-swiped my car and totaled it). . .so why raise my stuff? But, I will pay the additional cost. . . much like everybody else in the pool. But, I will ALWAYS hold a grudge for being compelled to do so.

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We all need insurance companies, but they are not charitable organizations.

No one pretends they are. We pay premiums to the company and they are supposed to pay victims when they have a loss. That’s not charity. 

Rather, people pay their premiums, on time, in full, year over year, for decades, and then the insurance company takes the money, gives the executives a raise, and cancels policies. That actually does kinda sound like charity.

Can I play devil's advocate and ask this: My understanding is State Farm is not allowed to default on claims, but is not renewing specific area polices in the future tense. And, 'out' in the law.

If the insurance company is passing up 'warning signs' of future failing and continues to speed toward a 'crash/failure' how is that acting in the best interest of its clients (fiduciary responsibility). Isn't it better to let people go before renewing in this case, so they can go get connected somewhere else?

Mind you, I do see the difficulty of insuring one's home in such a circumstance. But isn't this hard choices: Where the rubber meets the road?

Then go out of business and let someone else sell new policies. 

Why would someone do that (sell new policies if they knew they would lose money)?

My understanding is State Farm is not allowed to default on claims

They shouldn’t be allowed to default on claims, but policy holders have to take insurance companies to court every day. I guess that’s a bit of a tangent, but from what I have seen, the insurance industry generally - whether it’s health or homeowners - does everything it can to get wealthy at the expense of policy holders who have no choice but to buy whatever insurance is available. So, I’m inclined to demand higher regulation of the industry and to generally cut them very little slack.

In my mind, insurance companies and state regulators should be working cooperatively to deal with financial risk, while simultaneously making sure people maintain basic coverage they can afford. I’ve been paying premiums on my house to the same company for 12 years. Never missed a payment, and never made a claim. They cancelled me this fall and I did nothing wrong. I tried to see if there was anything I could do to prevent cancellation, and they said “no.” I can’t get insurance from anyone else, so far. If my house burns down today, I’m probably screwed.

that's F'd up. I used to be a consultant for a few major insurance companies, and they are not out to pay unless they have to. i was told to give my best honest assessment as to what caused the damage to dwelling exteriors and possibly subsequential damage to the interiors. They make insane money, and when they might not, they bail on you. There oughta be a law....

I understand the dilemma you face. (We have State Farm too, and so we are on the 'knive's edge' so to speak at any point they choose too). This time it cut in the other direction. Believe me, I understand. 

All the more reason for why California has to find a solution to these wildfires. . . even it means giving life sentences to anyone caught or 'found' starting them as a consequence. Insurance companies have to 'eat' too. Just the profit margin is a problem but it is a bit of an outlier in that too many houses-too many years consecutively are burning (for the amount we pay insurance for coverage versus the output to rebuild). The industry simply was not set up to work that way. . . and have working capital. 

There has to be give/relief/understanding all around. 

But, like your situation, we could face similarly this year at renewal time. Because a few years back. . .we saw 'red-sky' at dusk and all night on the 'distant' hillside from us. . . but, thankfully due to the hard-work of others (the COMMUNITY) it did not get into URBAN/cityside proper. (We are situated firmly in the midst of city proper. . . many homes to protect and 'buffet' before us.) But, goodness, when high winds are 'afoot' and some 'slacker' is pissing sparks/flames into it. . .who knows when/where/how come.

This is why insurance company underwriters have a 'right' to protect their interests (or risk total and complete failure in a situation like P/Palisades or Santa Rosa, California several years back - torrent winds and a fire storm). . . .

Thank you for sharing your professional point of view. It helps us/me understand an insider perspective. It really does. Do keep sharing your insights-positive and negative.  You have the knowledge and experience. Respect.

What a horrible experience, Tacos. Much the same is happening here in Florida with regard to hurricanes and floods many major companies have dropped out of the market and many others have gone bankrupt, the smaller ones went bankrupt, Now the insurer of last resort is the state of Florida and the rates are out of this world (high) and they are overwhelmed with new customers and many people are simple going without any insurance at all,

CB , i will share a little knowledge i have that might help some people .

treat every Ins policy as a contract , because thats what it actually is  its going to have a start and end date even if you have the same policy for 40 years . so read the fine print. and understand it .

keep in mind that the states ins commissioners office has to approve a companies policy's in state so most likely one is seeing a generic contract that's already been approved by that office  where minor coverage payouts can be adjusted and are allowed .

ASK the agent your dealing with about cancelation clauses in the contract, where the consumer can cancel at any time , the provider in most states are regulated to only be able to do so on the anniversary date / renewal date which is usually annually in most states.

ASK about premium increases and what would cause them and when the provider can increase the premiums, those usually have to go through the ins commissioners office as well but they too have a generic list of reasons they also follow . such as with auto insurance .  you know , tickets ,accidents, dui's.

 Remember about the only equity thats built with insurance policies or companies  , is the discounts they may or may not offer for longevity .

Thank you, Mark. That is helpful, because I assure you we generally just repaid (up/down cost with minor complaints and griping) about pricing—assuming we have the same (continuing) coverages. It never crosses my mind to take the time to reread the (entire) policy clauses. Respect.

Btw, is it true in other states (if you are aware) that even when natural disasters devastate and decimate (to the foundation) homes. . .that the MORTGAGE is still due the next month? (An individual on CNN actually stated this in a real-time interview after he stated he had talked to his insurance company/Mortgage company.)

True in your parts of the country and beyond?

"ill take my risk here."

Well, it isn't just a matter of risk.  There isn't just one reason why someone makes a life-changing decision, as I did, and as it has turned out for me, it was the right decision.  

"So insurance is fine up until the point that "too many" people need to benefit from it?" 

JR, insurance companies can be bastards, otherwise John Grisham might not have written his novel 'The Rainmaker'.  Did you ever see the movie adapted from it?

yes that is true 

"Much the same is happening here in Florida with regard to hurricanes and floods..."

Perhaps now people will consider that there could be bad that goes with the good when they move to where they do.  In the movie 'The Knight's Tale', Ulrich whose name is actually William (Heath Ledger) says something like "My father told me that I must take the bad with the good".  At least now people should consider the risks along with the benefits when they make a move to another place.  Even I failed in one respect.  I should have obtained expat health insurance when I moved because now it looms as health care could become a very big expense as I grow even older than I already am.  Now, at my age, it is either more expensive than I could possibly afford if it is even available. 

"...even when natural disasters devastate and decimate (to the foundation) homes. . .that the MORTGAGE is still due the next month?"

Mortgage companies usually take percentage risk into consideration and will lend only to the extent that they would normally be covered in order to dictate the terms.  This is from my experience from when I was practising commercial law in Canada (but keep in mind that was more than 20 years ago).  For example, in Canada, a first mortgage will have the easiest and least expensive repayment terms such as lowest interest rate, etc. and the loan would be limited to perhaps half or never more than two thirds of the value of the property, which is usually what the land value is.  Second or third mortgages that don't get paid back until the 1st mortgage has been paid back, which is why usually those who make the secondary or tertiary investments demand much greater benefits such as higher interest rates, shorter amortizations, etc.  Most well known corporate lenders will only provide funds secured by first mortgages, and it is the others who share the risks with the mortgagor.  

Why would anyone want to provide fire insurance for people who not only live in high-risk areas, but lack resources to combat fires, nor have prevention policies in effect?

Why would anyone want to provide fire insurance for people who not only live in high-risk areas, but lack resources to combat fires, nor have prevention policies in effect?

Nor the desire to change anything

Yes, the 1st mortgage is required to be paid first. Currently the fire stitution in CA is the top of the conversation, but many parts of the US are undergoing a massive change in insurance coverage, these include Florida where hurricanes and flooding are the two that have devasted the state. Like CA insurance companies are dropping thousands of clients or pulling out of the state completely, a number of other states are  experiencing  this with tornados, fires, and hurricanes. 

It is only going to get worse across the US. Prepare yourself for it.

Some might decide to to just move on if they can not afford to rebuild .

True, and points made. But, people that have their houses flattened by hurricanes............always rebuild, at the governments expense. 

"It is only going to get worse across the US. Prepare yourself for it."

Move to Canada, unless you're afraid of snow and don't want to insert the "u" in your spelling.

They've had wildfires, too, though.

So did we, here in Virginia, earlier this year.  Weather-induced ones.

And that's why I'm not going to jump on the "they should have been prepared" bandwagon.  The day ours started, the wind picked up late morning, and roads were shut down by early afternoon due to downed trees, power lines, etc.  I sent my employees home.  Got home myself to a damaged roof.  And not long after that, the alerts starting coming through about fires started by downed power lines.  There was no fighting them.  High winds, forested areas, steep terrain, and dry fuel.  There's only so much you can do to prepare for that.  Some folks were lucky to get out with the clothes on their backs.

I'm sure there will be those who will say that God is punishing us, but is there going to be another Noah?

Literally none of that is true.

Oh, that's already going around social media.  California is the land of the godless heathens, so God smote them.  Never mind that there are Christians in California.  His aim, according to his fervent followers, is not very discriminating.

In fact, it's so bad that he hit North Carolina with flooding (since you mentioned Noah), and regularly gets Florida with several hurricanes per season, despite them being populated by a high percentage of Bible thumpers.

I guess that's when we resort to "God works in mysterious ways", or some other bullshit copout.

I suppose, according to some, if y'all aren't actually raking the entire forests, you don't "have prevention policies in effect."

It’s all political nonsense. They aren’t interested in facts. They just want to score political points. Even worse, they express zero empathy for people who have lost everything - including, for some, their lives. Trump and his allies spread their lies, but offer no help.

"Why would anyone want to provide fire insurance for people who not only live in high-risk areas, but lack resources to combat fires, nor have prevention policies in effect?"

Is there a legal obligation that insurance MUST be provided?

Of course.

It's the same with the social media posts I mentioned.  The people who post those things want California to be denied any aid, because you all "weren't prepared."  But of course, they resent the amount of aid NC got for flooding (not enough, in their minds), and resent the suggestion that houses in flood plains need to do mitigation.  They want California to pay for North Carolina, but they don't want to pay for California.  And they will forget/ignore/maybe not ever even hear about Mike Johnson refusing to call the House back early to discuss emergency funding, but they're sure that Biden wouldn't even talk to Brian Kemp, because Trump said so.

And by God, we all have to bail out the southeast every time a hurricane washes away a house that was built on the beach.  Cuz them's Christian folks, and Californians are all rich godless commie movie stars.  

They're mad at "the attention" LA is getting, because still-burning fires in one of our nation's largest cities apparently deserve less media attention than floods that happened months ago in NC.  They're mad that NC hasn't been rebuilt, because somehow, we can wave a wand and rebuild roads and houses in just a few months, during the winter.

In short, they're resentful that somebody else is getting help and attention to which they think they're entitled, even though they got help and attention.

"Literally none of that is true."

What IS true?

Well, most mortgage lenders would demand one carry it, at least until a home is paid off.

"...despite them being populated by a high percentage of Bible thumpers."

Maybe that's why.  And maybe that's why He put the serpents in Florida to test the Adams and Eves that are there.  After all, didn't "The bible tell me so."  

(Oh I am so blasphemous, bound to be sent to Hell.  Well, as Bilbo Baggins said, "There's always time for a new adventure.")

"In short, they're resentful that somebody else is getting help and attention to which they think they're entitled, even though they got help and attention."

Youi tell him, lady!!!

I'm going to Hell, too, but at least I'll be in good company.

"Well, most mortgage lenders would demand one carry it, at least until a home is paid off.":

Yes, I'm sure nobody disagrees that the $ rules."  

"I'm going to Hell, too, but at least I'll be in good company."

I'm looking forward to meeting you in person.

we're taking over when we get there

We'll read Jane Austen, sip tea, and debate whether the Ehle/Firth or Knightley/McFayden adaptation of P&P is superior.

Hell, yeah.

You bring the beer.  I'll bring the burgers.  And the bonfire is already lit.  It'll be a country girl's/guy's regular Saturday night.

"We'll read Jane Austen, sip tea, and debate whether the Ehle/Firth or Knightley/McFayden adaptation of P&P is superior."

LOL.  I was originally going to extend my reply to you to say: "I'm looking forward to meeting you in person and we can spend our time discussing P&P."

IMO the Firth/Ehle version more completely and faithfully presents the novel's text, but the characters in the Knightly/McFayden version are much more attractive, and, as you previously said, Brenda Blethyn is better as Mrs. Bennet.

(Oh I am so blasphemous, bound to be sent to Hell.  Well, as Bilbo Baggins said, "There's always time for a new adventure.")

Sir! Careful now! For there is a ready 'comeback' to that quote:

"Today is a good day to die!"  - Worf - STAR TREK: The Next Generation.

One should always try to make the best of their situation. 

So, with respect to the comment I replied to,

Why would anyone want to provide fire insurance for people who not only live in high-risk areas, but lack resources to combat fires, nor have prevention policies in effect?

here’s what is true:

1. Many people who have lost their insurance do not live in what anyone should consider to be a “high risk” area. They live in the middle of urban areas. Insurance companies are inventing justifications for the cancellations.

My policy was canceled for two given reasons. Both are bullshit. The first was the growth next to my house. And yes, I do have plants growing next to my house, as well as trees in my yard. They have been there for all 12 years that I have been paying premiums, and it was never an issue. The insurance company never asked me to remove anything specific. I offered, but they did not care to tell me what specifically should be removed.

The second reason was mold. I do not have mold. No mold inspection has been done, beyond the one I had done when I bought the house. There is no evidence of mold in or out of the house.

We asked if there was anything we could do to make the house insurable. There was not. The insurance company was not interested in our protests.

2. California has excellent resources for combatting fires, including the largest firefighting air force in the country. The state coordinates with the counties, other states, and even other countries, to battle wildfires. When wind events are forecasted for a certain area, firefighting resources are moved into positions in advance of where they are likely to be needed. That was done this week in advance of this event.

One of the stories from the Palisades fire the first day was how people had to abandon their cars in the road, and those cars had to be bulldozed. No one thinks to consider how the bulldozer got into position so quickly.

3. California has several firefighting policies, and more are developed all the time. Certain flammable roofing, window, and other building materials are prohibited. People who do live in high risk areas are required to clear brush 100 feet away from structures. State alert systems warn people when there is a risk of fire, or a potential evacuation. The state conducts controlled burns, and clears firebreaks with earth movers.

But when you have wind that can blow burning embers two and three miles down range, and that wind also pumps extra oxygen into the fire, it kind of doesn’t matter where you live or how you landscape. I think people imagine that wildfires just proceed along a very discreet line, but when the wind is blowing at 80, 90, even 100mph, like it was this week, dozens of little fires pop up all over town at the same time. No one in the world has resources to stop that.

LAFD sends a brush clearance notice every year.  Compliance is required or they will do it for you at the homeowner's cost.  They can be very meticulous.  Two years ago I received a notice of non-compliance after we did our brush clearance and required tree triming because of one small area on our property that I didn't realize was a problem.  They even have a website with photos showing the area that needed work. I took care of it immediately.

The hurricane force winds, combined with our severe drought (it hasn't rained since May) after two years of heavy rains which resulted in significant growth, now very dry, made this an impossible situation.  The good news is that today things quieted down.  I didn't see any smoke or hear the helicopters which have been a contant presence for the last three days.  Yesterday there were major flare-ups with huge smoke clouds only about a mile from our house when the Palisades fire reached Mulholland Dr.  The firefighters did a magnificent job and we are very thankful to them.

Firth's Darcy is swoon-worthy.  McFayden just comes across as wet.  I love him in other roles, but not as Darcy.

The state conducts controlled burns..

One of the complaints I've read is that they don't anymore.

I KNOW that 'low' feeling in one's gut when fire can be seen on the horizon and the 'zones' are being called out too! Thankfully, we never have had to evaluate, but I do remember packing a 'bag' and checking for a set of hotel rooms.

At least when i got my notice of cancelation / non renewal of catastrophic fire loss, my agent locally didnt try and BS me with some excuses that seemed unlikely .

 i plainly got told the company was simply letting policies reach their end date and choosing not to renew because they were getting out of that particular part of the market which they can do , even if some think they shouldnt be able to .

Doesnt matter now since the contract / policy is no longer in effect , i am looking at further fire mitigation on my property that i really rather wouldnt have to take , i have 17 trees at different stages of maturity on the property , this spring many will be removed. Im also considering an outbuilding for a 3k cistern , but climate factors is making me really have to think that one over .

end result is , once a company decides they are done , most likely they are done and will leave the market , its not their obligation or responsibility to make sure another company takes their place once they leave .

The good news is that today things quieted down.  I didn't see any smoke or hear the helicopters which have been a contant presence for the last three days.  Yesterday there were major flare-ups with huge smoke clouds only about a mile from our house when the Palisades fire reached Mulholland Dr.  The firefighters did a magnificent job and we are very thankful to them.

We should discuss that feeling you, me, we get in that moment when we see 'the impossible' making its way towards us. For me, there was the several years when the power kept going out for days, then the 'freak' hailstorm that nearly damaged our roof before it stopped and melted, and then the ground sewer at the end of the block that started to back up into the street (with creek water or something) but then un-dammed itself. Finally, the fires that put us one zone away from 'departure.' . . . . 

I literally had packed the car with what I could for a 'family' of us. And I can remember the. . .'joy' and reflection when I unpacked it still unused to go back. . . as I did not have to leave home. 

I remember how much RESPECT I felt for those who were serving on those fire lines. . . and how even how our highway patrol had played a role in helping make that possible. I took them (awkward) gifts over to their office and thanked them. (Close as I could get to a fire fighter at the time.)

Interesting we have 16 trees on our property too. And, something strange and interesting occurred just this fall. . . a shrubbery tree on the front lawn that has been there for nearly 30 years . . . fell over in a wind storm this season. It was ground saturation that got it - I guess. Now I worry about the 17 much taller trees because they certainly will land on (take out) something if/when they uproot!

Hmmm. One more thing to 'worry/think' about. Thanks! (Thinking.)

One of the reasons my SiL was given for his cancellation of fire coverage was trees within 100 ft of the dwelling , all mature pine well over 80 ft tall. if a fire went through the company mentioned the fire crowning over the top of the dwelling .  problem was most of the trees that this would  occur in were NOT on his property so he could not even trim them , let alone cut them down .

 as for me , i have a written and notarized agreement with an adjacent property owner whom will never build or sell the property( long story) that i can and have permission to remove free growing fire fuels as needed ( invasive weeds usually) a couple tanks of gas in my lawn tractor and a few hours riding in circles and the fire threat is mitigated  some what . another neighbor has a fallow grass/ hay field across a dirt road from me he just lets go , and has it bordered by very thick russian olive trees  he says act as a wind break , if all that goes up and the wind is right , i will not be a very happy camper .

Russian olive leaves are somewhat waxy , and the tree itself is rather oily , yet it soaks up a great deal of water , the leaves tend to stay on the tree even when dead through to spring when they fall and new ones replace them, i think one can see the concern there .

there are ways what a neighbors actions/ inactions can affect your risk assessment with the bean counters and underwriters, as well as how big an area  they include in that assessment. No assessment of risk ever just includes just your little piece of ground .    

@ Tacos1

It's unfortunate that you have to put up with that kind of bullshit. 

Despite the fear of fire zoning call-outs a few years back. . .I have already stated that our home is in city proper and surrounded on. . . well three sides by other houses and many, many blocks before us: On three sides anyway. We are 'somewhat' vulnerable on one side a ways. My big concern is not so much fire, but wind-tree damage to the house at this point. They are that close.

Though back when the fires were 'prevalent' I used to stand and just imagine seeing the tops on fire, but it was just imagining it.

This wind damage due to ground saturation is a real possibility I need to consider now, nevertheless. May be time to start taking the "windbreakers' up, because it was certainly what I enjoyed about them-mostly in the summer.

@ Sandy

Firth's Darcy was definitely the better in every way, but how would you consider him compared to Olivier?

@ CB 2.1.67

Fortunately, I've never in my life had to experience that.

@ Mark 2.1.68

Are there no insurance companies willing to insure your property?

17 trees to be exact . .16 written there is erroneous typing overlook.

@ Mark 2.1.71

It's a good thing there were no wildfires anywhere near where my log-constructed waterfront chalet was during the years I owned it - look at all those pine trees surrounding it. .

That is a great question, because many of us need to know how the heck this plays out if necessary in the future! (In California and some other states there are state policies and federal policies (very expensive they are: I heard Governor Newsome say even he has one today in a fire-site ground interview). 

Wouldn't it be a super government that would provide a "last resort" insurance policy in the event that no commercial ones are willing to take the risk?

Check out this interview: "FAIR PLAN" (is the California 'plan' mentioned by the Governor):

California Gov. Gavin Newsom joins CNN for a one-on-one interview about fire response

The California Fair Plan

cfpnet

Buzz, the trend i am seeing here is they are ALL getting out of the market of insuring for catastrophic coverage and it appears to be everywhere , not just isolated states.

One could shop around to see if other providers MIGHT offer something , problem is even that companies bean counters , risk assessors and underwriters will be using the same information as the one who decides to get out of the market . and even then , that company can say it needs to charge a certain amount in premiums which if the Ins commissioners office disagrees , the policy contract cannot go forward , its then left to the company to decide to be in the market or not , most are choosing to no longer be in that particular market and they cannot be forced to be IN the market . which is what we are seeing everywhere .

 This issue will also spill over into the rental market , if a property owner can not insure , chances of them renting drops dramatically, When i DID rent ( i quit that 2 years ago for other reasons ) , i informed prospective tenant's that my insurance only covered the dwelling , not contents , and i advised them to get their own policy as renters to cover their possessions and that was their responsibility . I still could have been sued . either way .

Sorry, CB, but I can't open youtubes and the other link is blocked. 

What is to be the solution as these catastrophic climate occurances multiply and evolve even worse than we are now seeing?  I don't want to get into politics, but I think the government is going to have to get DEEPLY involved. 

I liked Olivier's Darcy pretty well, but that version overall was pretty terrible.  The costuming, the overacting, the rehabilitation of Lady Catherine...  It was very much a commercialized Hollywood production.

Yes, Lady Catherine was entirely out of character, and rather than considering Elizabeth a pollution of the shades of Pemberley advised Darcy that she was the one for him.

Buzz , on that i have no clue .

 As for staying non political , good luck , i would say the state governments are already deeply involved with their state ins commissions  so their policies should also be discussed because they have a direct impact on the issue .

And as Kavika pointed out , as companies pull out of the market , the state might as is being shown , become the only insurer, we all saw what he said is happening in his area with that . 

Let's not go there or we'll both be contravening the rules and purpose of my "Great Non-Political Articles" group.

I may have already "tickled the fringe " but i AM trying to remain non political in the facts i see and post , unlike some of the other articles i have seen .

they express zero empathy for people who have lost everything

Like this? 

thenewstalkers

What happened? I remember that you could and all we had to do is. . .was provide you the correct 'title.' How unfortunate for us.

 About FAIR Plan

What is the FAIR Plan?

The California FAIR Plan Association was established to meet the needs of California homeowners unable to find insurance in the traditional marketplace. The FAIR Plan is not a state agency, nor is it a public entity. There is no public or taxpayer funding.

The FAIR Plan is a syndicated fire insurance pool comprised of all insurers licensed to conduct property/casualty business in California. The FAIR Plan was established by statute (California Insurance Code sections 10091 et seq.) in August, 1968 as an insurance placement facility. All licensed property/casualty insurers which write basic property insurance required by Insurance Code sections 10091(a) and 10095(a) are members of the FAIR Plan.  The FAIR Plan issues policies on behalf of its member companies. Each member company participates in the profits, losses and expenses of the Plan in direct proportion to its market share of business written in the state.

The FAIR Plan has not been rated or evaluated by A.M. Best.

The video is an interview wherein Governor Newsome is asked about loss of insurance going forward for some of the residents in this fire and in the state. His reply is that his father's home is on the "Fair Plan" and that it is expensive and 'basic,' but is appropriate coverage for insurance-holding purposes. (What is not clear in the interview (no follow-up by interviewer or interviewee) is if Governor Newsome is the owner of his father's dwelling.)

As the great Gilda Radner (deceased) in her role on Saturday Night Live:

Roseanne Roseannadanna's grandma used to say: "It's always something." 

T his reminds me of those folks some years ago that were heard to say 'keep out of my healthcare. . . now, where's my Medicare?!!'  

(I will dig no deeper on this. . . .)

"What happened? I remember that you could and all we had to do is. . .was provide you the correct 'title.'"

I'm sorry CB.  I just meant that I couldn't open the youtube or link.  I was able to open the title and had access to this:  LINK -> California FAIR Plan: Eligibility, Application, and Payment Options - LegalClarity

Having seen many wild fires in my lifetime this is beyond any scope that I can wrap my head around. Just the shear volume of destruction is unimaginable to me. I don’t know how you are going to rebuild whole towns not just neighborhoods. Everything is gone, libraries, stores, post office schools, there is nothing left.

I finally got info about one of my great nephews that is fighting the fire, I spoke to his dad who said he spoke to him and all he could say was, in over 15 years of firefighting I have never seen anything like this, it is surreal. He still on duty and has little sleep in the last 96 hours but he is safe and still doing his job helping save what they can and helping the people that are left homeless by this.

I guess what happened to Lahaina on the Hawaiian island of Maui was a harbinger of what has now followed. 

Having seen many wild fires in my lifetime this is beyond any scope that I can wrap my head around. Just the shear volume of destruction is unimaginable to me. I don’t know how you are going to rebuild whole towns not just neighborhoods. Everything is gone, libraries, stores, post office schools, there is nothing left.

True but the land is still there .. the land will recover.  I get it that people's lives are in flux.  I know the devastation of fire season.  This fire is for sure different Kavika it is not some random lighting strike or downed powerlines wildfire .. it is an Urban fire 

I watched an interview the night they hooked up to hydrants that were empty and fire personnel could do nothing but watch structures burn .. to a firefighter that goes against everything they stand for .. this fire individual was saying that in all his years he has never had to fight fires in whole neighborhoods where every structure is kindling stacked on kindling and no water.....!

This is devastating ... keep first responders in your thoughts, they are putting themselves on the frontline attempting to protect other's homes, while their own may be burning ..

Peace...

Wasn't there something in Matthew 7:24-27 about not building your house on sand?

My feelings about this are the obvious sadness and lost of memories. It just explains the nature of man's existence: One moment/morning you are flying high and. . . have no clue to how 'low' lying is by evening or new dawn. Everything is upended. Similar to those who are caught in the fierce hands of a hurricane. Or flood. Or Earthquake. Or Tornado. Or, yes. . . Mass shooting. Our. . . dynamic world is quite lovely and dangerous. . .it takes no stock of 'man' or animals when it 'flexes.'  

My feelings are explained in the story of a 66 years old man who died. . . with his water hose in his hand. . . . What exactly killed him I can't say. . . maybe the fire, the smoke, or a heart attack. But, I am sure he had no idea 'today' was his moment with fate. . . .  Ay God! What man (in his right mind) would say that God certainly knows our planned end? 

People are more resilient than we give them credit for, since they believe that living where earthquakes wildfires, gang-shoplifting, homelessness and gun violence exists to be home sweet home. 

Buzz, "we' have no choice. When whichever "paradise" we pick for ourselves comes crashing down around our necks and shoulders as an emergency situation or planned demise or even loss of value we find ourselves suspended in a 'sea' of despair and what comes next. Of course, we pick ourselves up and go on. . . because THAT is the nature of survival. Survival dictates that we do so or something surely will come along—increase despair or worse!

Not everywhere, not everyone, but California is not utopia.  

I know Buzz. We are 'pricey' as hell out here. And the state is damn big for one governor to be attentive to its every 'cry.' May be we can get these "brainiac" computers to program the next 'big' disaster so man can get started on its prevention ahead of time.

People are a big problem with all their 'campfires' dynamics. Just yesterday, I was out shopping and actually saw this women bent over trying to start a 'small" fire in a gap or (I know not what it was). . .'hollow' cut into a stanchion build onto a massive church and she was doing her damndest . . .for what seemed like. .. to use it as some type of 'pizza' stove. I alerted the plaza security.  

Damn. 

Be careful - let's not get into politics on this group.

Unfortunately, you didn't take my advice, as noted above.

Not sure where I got it wrong after you cautioned me. I do admit that sometimes these articles on similar topics can cause a slip-up. 

Both paragraphs that I deleted were VERY political.  I don't mind a passing word that has no effect but what you posted was too much.  However, you need not be concerned because not only did the deletions NOT cost you points, I don't even think they caused you to get tickets, but even if they did, they're nothing more than reminders to not do it again. 

I see the 'red' indicators now. Well, I try to do the best I can. (Sheepishly.) I am distracted throughout the day by a great many things in the real world and try to add here in-betweens. It does not help when there are two articles on the same thing. . . by different people. Still, I am trying. (I don't even remember what was written there right now. It was not intentional to flout the instructions given , nevertheless.

Don't worry about it - it's no longer a problem.  There were more than two articles about the fires, and if I've seen that there is an article about something on the Front (Home) Page I won't post mine, but what I posted wasn't an article about the fires, it was a series of photos of it and I posted it because the articles that were posted showed only one or two photos.  

Arvo... the authorities have done an absolutely outstanding job fighting fires and evacuating people..the death toll could have been a hundred times worse with the amount of destruction going on..

The last massive bushfire here was 2009 and we lost 173 souls and burnt out 450,000 hectares....so LA has done an incredible job of saving lives..

Yes more souls will probably be lost but seeing this hell on earth... it's almost a miracle...

We are only half way through summer here... February is our worst month and this could be a timely warning or foreboding for us..

We are forever grateful for the Sky Cranes that came from America during our darkest of hours...and nor have we forgotten the American air crew who perished while fighting fires in NSW on 2020...

We watch from across the Pacific heart broken and devastated knowing the total loss involved for everyone...💔

Stay strong, have courage and we are thinking of you across the miles..

Elvis the US angel from heaven in  2009 helping in Victoria's Black Saturday bushfires...❤️

Well spoken, shona1.

this just crossed my news feed

msn

I can see this being challenged in court.

In the mean time any policy/ contracts will likely be renamed from annual to bi annual or semi annual with renewal dates any where from 3 to 6 month periods . until the courts make a ruling . So instead of aslow retreat from the market giving people time to find other providers or other providers deciding to get into this market , there may be a massive dump of contract renewals if the court sides with the state when the moratorium expires , instant insurance desert.

Reading the article this only affects those affected by the PP and Eaton fires and does not cover anyones coverage that has already been cancelled , so insurance companies can continue to withdraw from the market in the rest of the state .

Buzz i dont know if you can open that or not .

  a small synopsis is the Ca ins commish placed a moratorium on companies cancelling policies until Jan 7 ,2026, it only gives slight protection to those living in the fire zones i mentioned, they cant be cancelled , a sort of forced renewal  , but not those with policies already cancelled . The rest of the state policies can be cancelled .

I think that will help to explain the rest of my comment .

I can't open MSN, but no matter, insurance is only a side topic to what I posted and it's not at all a "need-to-know" item for me. 

This is devastating.   So many lives turned upside down.   One wonders if it is humanly possible to deal with this level of powerful combinations of natural elements ... fire and wind ... that we are witnessing.   I suppose if money is no object, the Pacific ocean has unlimited water.   But how would one build a distribution network that could address this?   Maybe ocean-based water walls that could be activated to isolate fires into manageable sectors?

The cost for doing this is likely staggering, but then again fire is a key threat in California.   The cost of this devastation will be enormous and it might be the motivation to push for stronger preventative measures in the future ... even those that were seen as cost prohibitive.

Due to the problems of using salt water I would suggest that it's time to build a bunch of desalination plants.  It's either that or invade Canada, because it has 20% of the world's fresh water. 

Desalination or an infrastructure that is designed for salt water.    I see this as an emergency water wall, not as something that would be used for routine fires.    The damage to the soil by salt is a small price to pay for containing a forest fire.

Clearly it is would be ideal to desalinize the water and make it useful for many purposes.   Again, costs are a key factor.

The cost is no comparison to what it is going to cost for what's happening now. 

Arvo Tig... unfortunately it is not the first and nor will it be the last..both out countries are fire prone..

After the 2009 fires and 173 souls lost things changed here for houses in bush fire areas..

Houses made from fire proof materials, sprinklers had to be installed on roofs, closed guttering, shutters on windows and other regulations..

If people have pools they have diesel generators and water pumps plus fire fighting hoses..you are basically on your own in these catastrophic conditions and need a fire plan..

Every summer we have it pounded into us about clearing bush, rubbish etc, removing outdoor umbrellas etc anything that can and does catch fire..

People have installed under ground bunkers at their own cost as we know it will be just a matter of time here...

We have had suburban bushfires...in 2003 70% of the ACT where Canberra is went up..but no where near the scale of loss like LA...Melbourne has been lucky a couple of times wind changes have saved them..one day that luck will run out...

Every 20 odd years it comes here with massive force..1983, 2003, 2009...we are due again now and when it does, nothing will stop it...

Can only do what you can to prepare your own home and then it is in the hands of the Gods...

Underground bunkers. . . interesting. How does the bunker ward against potential explosions above ground?

It's the climate.  Wildfires in Canada only recently got as serious as they've become.  There has even recently been a wildfire in a Chongqing rural area wherein hundreds of residents pitched in to help the firefighters and it was brought under control fairly quickly.

I actually thought about this very thing during the conflagrations occurring; those with vested interest in keeping their properties 'clear' of fire should pitch in. (On tv, thousands of these properties appear to be pristine and 'substantial' properties). But this was more of a fire STORM. It would have been truly dangerous to have civilians (untrained folks and lacking fire 'discipline') roaming around on/in the 'fields of play.' It may come with legal responsibilities under U.S. law too. 

Arvo...yes everything explodes...from houses, gas bottles, cars and eucalyptus trees. The trees are renowned for it..

Bunkers are built away from structures on clear land so doesn't make any difference if there are explosions..

They are built on the same lines as your tornado bunkers.

Many houses lost here were not touched by flames but the radiant heat destroys them first... and then they burn..

So yes you can shelter in your home if you know the direction, speed the fire is coming..the fire storms here are fast running and gone within minutes... that's the safest place to be if you can't get out if it is to late or the next best in your car if you are really stuck..

Radiant heat is the biggest cause and killer of people here and basically if you are out in the open you are gone...

Not my photos...

The residents did not go onto the dangerous front lines, but they did the back-up necessities to free up the professionals to do the front line work.  The residents did the deliveries, prepared and served the food, took care of the injured, whatever they could that was not dangerous.

"How does the bunker ward against potential explosions above ground?"

If they couldn't be effective, why did people build bomb shelters back when there might have been a nuclear threat?  

That's a good question/point.

However, in this case, (and Shona clarified what she meant @7.1.7 ) I, for my part, was thinking that she meant  . . . 

@7.1.3  

People have installed under ground bunkers at their own cost as we know it will be just a matter of time here...

. . .underground bunkers as attached to the home/house.  Now where that "image" came to my mind from I can't explain. 
But, once I saw Shona's picture of the bunkers I understood perfectly what she meant.  A case of: "picture being worth a thousand words" bearing itself out .

The damage to the soil by salt is a small price to pay for containing a forest fire.

Killing the soil in and around LA would result in massive mudslides later. 

Most people dont even know the composition of their lawns , they see grass and think that is  all there is to it and its going to be the same no matter how far down they dig.

most times you will have sod , the actual grass you see , then a layer of topsoil , its thickness can vary ,  then the native soil which may or may not have supported plant growth . most home constructions in residential areas  start at native soil, a layer of topsoil is then brought in  and sod laid  or grass is planted ,

 my property has about 2 in of sod , then about 15 in of topsoil before i get down to where it changes to what would be native soil . but then again , my property use to be cropland so the topsoil layer would be thicker , in suburban and urban areas that would be different even if it use to be pastural land .

as far as soil mitigation from use of salt water in residential areas , not in the hills , it would entail stripping the sod and topsoil off down to native soil , replacing it and the sod .

 a good way to find out ones soil comp is simply dig a hole in your yard in a couple different places , first layer will be your sod/ grass, then topsoil which supports the growth of the sod, and then the native soil layer. knowing this info , if one has to ever do soil mitigation , will help a contractor in pricing , a good contractor will of course do their own tests and go off their own findings and adjust from there .

as far as soil mitigation from use of salt water in residential areas , not in the hills , it would entail stripping the sod and topsoil off down to native soil , replacing it and the sod .

That's would be quite the task for so large an area. We've already seen mudslides after wildfires in CA.

Watch: Air tankers scoop ocean water to battle Palisades Fire

ktla

With proper maintenance and safety precautions, “seawater puts out fire just as well as fresh water,”  Orange County Fire Capt. Larry Kurtz told the Orange County Register .

For example, firefighting boats already use saltwater, Kurtz added.

The biggest problem about seawater is its corrosive properties and most of the present equipment would be damaged by it.  

It also damages vegetation and the runoff will contaminate freshwater.   Lots of challenges.

I think that is why "maintenance" and safety precautions are mentioned in the company of the quote from the Orange County Fire Captain above. I could be wrong, however. As I have always heard that seawater is damaging to standard land equipment. But, what about in emergencies ('last ditch efforts' - just rebuild or get new equipment replacements)?

Yeah. And yet pushed to do it - LA County okayed it on a need basis this time. Your point is well-received, all the same.

I think it's better to adhere to the Boy Scout motto that almost every boy learns - "Be Prepared".

Absolutely and so many people in LA seem to have a swimming pool..one of the best resources available in times of fire right at their back door...

The damn wind is the biggest obstacle but even if you can wet down the house and surrounding ground it can and often saves it..

One thing I noticed the houses seem to be packed very closely together and it certainly doesn't help..and unfortunately that trend is happening here now..

Years ago you had to build a certain distance from the neighbours, now the roofs are nearly touching..it will not be a good outcome... 

If I lived in Southern California I'd build my house out of reinforced concrete with steel outer doors and window bars to guard against invaders - no earthquake is going to knock it down and not fire is going to penetrate it, and make sure it's a land level that floods would not be a problem - so many risks that you can't blame the insurance companies from fleeing. 

Concrete "cancer" and moisture (rust) problems with the steel rebar inside can cause concrete spalling issues over time . . .or in a 'hot' fire.

theconversation

Seems to me we need to live in a bomb shelter.  What is a greater danger, the elements or people?

Doubt there is one country in the world where no disasters occur...from natural to man made..

From floods, earth quakes, cyclones, fires to volcanoes..

You live where you live and just like everyone else you take a risk..you do what you can and get on with living...

Welcome to the planet Earth

One thing I noticed the houses seem to be packed very closely together and it certainly doesn't help..and unfortunately that trend is happening here now..

I drove through a neighborhood that burned about 5 years ago in Santa Rosa and noticed that once the fire is in the houses it's burning houses and leaving many of the trees standing.

Both. But fortunately for the majority of humanity 'unconscious' elements are a greater danger.  Now, from another perspective, the dynamics of people on our planet's crust are a close second.

Now then. . . about these FLAME RETARDANTS:

So, what's in it?

"It's basically a mixture of water, fertilizer, and then the red color that you see is just rust," McCurry says. In the wild, the color fades over time with exposure to sunlight.

"You might see a gum or thickening agent just to change the viscosity, how sticky this stuff is," McCurry says. Thickeners also keep the material from drifting off-target, he adds, "But the business end of it really is ammonium phosphate fertilizer."

For anyone who's heard of fertilizer being used in explosives: That's ammonium nitrate. Phos-Chek commonly contains two types of salt: diammonium phosphate ([NH4]2HPO4) and ammonium polyphosphate ((NH4PO3)n).

Along with its use as a fertilizer (providing nitrogen and phosphorous to plants), you often see ammonium phosphate in  crystal-making kits  that are popular with children.

So, how does it stop fires from spreading?

Under normal conditions, cellulose in plant matter decomposes as it's heated, producing flammable compounds. Phos-Chek's maker says the reaction between the retardant and cellulose consumes heat energy from the approaching fire and produces non-flammable carbon material.

The goal is to slow or stop the fire's spread, especially if the area includes homes or other structures.

"They don't tend to drop [retardant] directly in the center of an ongoing fire," McCurry says. "They tend to drop kind of at the barrier of it because they're trying to prevent it from spreading. And the reason that these products are kind of useful for that potentially is that the active ingredient is not water. Right? It's the fertilizer. So even after the water evaporates, you still have that red stripe there for days or weeks."

A firefighter walks a ridge covered with red fire retardant dropped by an air tanker during the Bobcat Fire at the Angeles National Forest in 2020 in Monrovia, Calif.  David McNew/Getty Images

Big air tankers can drop up to 9,400 gallons of Phos-Chek onto trees and other potential fuels. The massive quantities have spurred  McCurry  and other researchers to consider potential harms from the material. But McCurry says people in a fire zone likely have more pressing worries.

"In terms of immediate concern, the main thing I'd be worried about, regardless of whether there's fire retardant used or not, is just air pollution — like particulate matter," he says. "If you're walking around in an area that's been burned, it's probably still very smoky. So it'd be a good idea to wear a respirator."

Is it safe?

Due to environmental concerns, the Forest Service has  a mandatory ban  on aerial retardant drops in sensitive areas such as waterways and endangered species habitats ( map ). That ban is in effect "except when human life or public safety are threatened." Using retardants in restricted areas must be reported for possible remediation.

Phos-Chek doesn't include any substances flagged by California's Proposition 65 list of materials that are known to cause cancer and other harms,  according to its maker .

The Forest Service's   specifications for wildfire retardants   ban PFAS, known as " forever chemicals ," along with other unacceptable compounds.

Last year, McCurry and his colleagues  published a study  suggesting some fire suppression products, including Phos-Chek, can contain toxic heavy metals such as cadmium and chromium. The Forest Service says heavy metals aren't added to fire retardants, "But may be present as naturally occurring impurities in the retarding salts (which come from the same source as crop fertilizers),"  Boise State Public Radio reported  last November.

As for the air tankers' operations over smoldering hillsides, the most immediate danger would seem to be to the aviators.

"It's a really heroic job," McCurry says of the pilots — many of them former military, he says — who guide massive planes through low-altitude drops over challenging terrain. "You know, some of those guys die every year."

Between 2000-2013, there were 78 aviation deaths related to fighting wildfires, according to a 2015  report  by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

npr

"Now then. . . about these FLAME RETARDANTS:"

In other words, you're damned if you use them or damned if you don't - not exactly a win-win situation.

There is something about the arrival of the media at these large. . . events that is just wrong. I get that we need "Coverage," but is it 'coverage' when it takes on the tenor of asking questions of a prize-fighter between rounds?!  The fire and heat is still "cooking" and the media wants to discuss how the ingredients were 'picked,' proportioned, prepared, and 'served' up! That's just wrong!

I am sure we 'all' have seen them. You drive out in the countryside or between the escalating hills and off the side of 'any' point in the hillside you can see drop-offs that are deep. . . and a house or houses 'set-ins' through the brush, bushes, thickets, and trees. I know I can do it from my home across 'the way' into the hills. 

Some of those people probably do not bother with home insurance (I rightly don't know). But, boy. . .when what they do causes a fire. . .the rest of us get invited to its 'party' - Hello!

 "...a house or houses 'set-ins' through the brush, bushes, thickets, and trees."

This is a good solution to the problem.

HA! Well now — Al'ight! Eureka! 'The moat of the day!' 

It's quite an anomaly that this article, merely a series of photos, has earned more comments than any article I have ever posted.  My appreciation to all who have contributed towards that.  

I saw a photo a few days ago that you don’t have in your essay, it was a burned out shell of a house with a circle metal stairway going up three floors there was no roof or third floor left and it was silhouetted on a ridge. It was the end of the world, just stunning.

Something that is forgotten in all this fire misery is the amazing fire-fighter ground crews, 'fire' FLYERS, and people helping feed and house those burned out HOLDING THE LINE for days now using their wits alone at times to tell the ELEMENTS: "You shall not pass - any further!"   Days long and through long nights!

Many are the places that border the fire that can BREATHE again. . .because firefighters have given them the 'All Clear'!

Bravo! Bravo! Bravo!

Agreed, CB.  It is a highly dangerous job and those who have the courage to do it deserve recognition and thanks.

I have decided that enough is enough and we have all been able to voice our feelings and opinions about this catastrophic event, but there is a pressure towards heading the comments into the political world that I created this group to avoid, and there are enough open articles on the topic to cater to that need.  Therefore, after a record more than 150 comments I'm locking this article.  Please take a look at the others I have posted that appear on the Front (Home) Page.  My thanks to all who contributed to this article.