Mormons plan to quit over church's new policy banning baptism in gay families
Advocates for LGBT Mormons say they’re seeing an unprecedented uproar in the past week about a new church policy banning the baptism of same-sex couples’ children and declaring married gay couples apostates. Some longtime advocates say they know dozens of Mormons quitting over the new policy. A public group resignation is planned for Saturday and reports are surfacing that church leadership may already be preparing to tweak the controversial edict.
“I’ve seen lots of painful things, but nothing so widespread, in terms of the devastation and heartbreak. I personally talked to dozens of people who are walking away. And these aren’t people with LGBT ties. These are ardent, faithful, in-the-box believing Mormons who can’t abide this,” said Wendy Montgomery, an Arizona Mormon who has a 17-year-old gay son and who co-founded Mama Dragons, a group for church mothers with gay children.
When the group was founded four years ago it had six members. It now has more than 500. She worked to create groups like Sit With Me Sunday, a program that helps LGBT people who want to come to church but are afraid to connect with someone to take them. The volunteer running it shut it down last week after news broke of the new policy, Montgomery said. “She said, ‘It’s no longer safe to invite them. It’s better if we tell them to run.'”
The new policy, which was put quietly in a handbook but leaked last week, says children living in a same-sex household may not be blessed as babies or baptized until they are 18. At that time children may disavow the practice of same-sex cohabitation or marriage and stop living within the household and request to join the church, the new policy said.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, also known as the Mormon Church, teaches that marriage is between a man and a woman.
Before the change, the church’s policy was that same-sex marriage might require discipline and it was usually left up to local leaders. Now that same-sex marriage is legal throughout the country, the church decided to identify those in a same-sex marriage as apostates, or people who renounce their faith.
Rumors began this week that the church’s 15-man leadership — three in a body called The First Presidency and 12 in a lower-level unit called the Quorum of the Apostles — might change the document following the uproar.
The Salt Lake Tribute on Wednesday cited excommunicated activist John Dehlin as saying a major church governing group “sent out a memo to regional leaders, saying that ‘there will be additional clarification on these changes from the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve [Apostles] in the coming days,'” the Tribune quoted Dehlin as saying.
“Many Mormons are calling on their church leaders to modify this new policy on same-sex couples — particularly the limitations affecting the children — and soon,” the Tribune reported.
The piece, by plugged-in Salt Lake City religion reporter Peggy Fletcher Stack, focused on experts who see a huge difference between a “policy” — which is how leaders described the change last week — and “doctrine.”
“LDS Church guidelines that exclude gay couples and their children from some Mormon rituals may be official, but these new rules are not necessarily divinely endorsed — and could easily change,” she wrote Wednesday.
Former Mormons and others announced Wednesday that there will be a “mass resignation” from Mormonism Saturday at a Salt Lake City park. Critics of the church have in recent years occasionally held public “resignations,” emphasizing LDS bureaucracy that keeps people on the books until they formally quit and hoping to further their cause.
The Facebook page for the event has about 1,000 saying they are coming, though some may be people who long ago left the church, and not new refugees.
A Utah lawyer told local station KIVI that he personally is helping more than 1,000 leave the church. You don’t need a lawyer but because the church is known for its record-keeping and for keeping members on their books, some apparently enlist lawyers.
News of the policy came after several years in which the church has made deliberate, public efforts to show compromise with LGBT advocates, and seek to tamp down internal culture wars.
The church worked with gay advocates in Salt Lake City to come up with an anti-discrimination law compromise that included a new affirmation of religious freedom rights. A few weeks ago, a top Mormon leader gave a talk to lawyers about the tensions between gay rights and conservative religious Americans and said both sides really need to give. Many saw the Mormon church as working to be a leader on the conservative side in encouraging Americans to accept differences as equals.
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Those magic-underpants-wearing cultists who believe God lives on a planet near the star 'Kolob', must be actively trying to thin their herd. Or maybe they think that this will convince LGBTs to snap out of it and start making babies for their cause.
For more information on how batshit crazy LDS is, click below:
They come banging on my door frequently. I don't answer the door.
I get them and the Seventh Day Adventists. I mean stay the hell away from my house! If I wanted to join your church don't you think I would come to you? Even if I was a Christian I wouldn't join any church that has door to door salesmen! I would love to go around the neighborhood knocking on people's door and wave a copy of "The God Delusion" and say "Have you heard the good news that there is no God?"
You should do that . Take pictures . I want to see you with a black eye ...
Dear Friend Hal: There is some good news in all this.
For a long time the Mormon Church would not ordinate those of darker color skin.
Internally, they saw that enough Mormons saw the policy as racist. The Church changed its doctrine,
Now people of color can serve in pastoral capacity.
Perhaps with enough internal support for the LGBT community within their religion more acceptance of those who are moved to be members can find acceptance.
This post is not an anti - Mormon rant. Rather it is showing how over time things can improve. Credit earned is credit due. Positively reinforcing things that are good can support those who can bring about internal change that is sustainable.
As a Chaplin many from other religions, and no religions at all have sought my help and support because they were treated as second class citizens by the very people in their community and society who should have been there to support, not judge or exclude them.
People like me will always be there for those in need whether like or unlike us. People such as me also look forward to the day when everyone, whatever they do or do not believe can be fully accepted as equals, and supported by their own, whatever that term means.
Chaplains see what happens when people fall through, or are pushed through the cracks in society. It isn't pretty, just or morally acceptable. A lot of pain and damage is done. It is all perfectly preventable.
What ever people do or do not believe, living life morally is an option open to anyone and everyone.
Folks like me who serve anyone who wants it keep hoping that all in the human family will choose the higher path in life. To serve and protect. To understand and support. To see people in terms of their being people, not in terms of terms and labels.
I probably will not live to see this. But I hope my off spring and grandchildren do.
Onward and upward
E.
"Rather it is showing how over time things can improve."
Enoch, my problem is that they only do the right thing when they've exhausted all the wrong thing options, as this article illustrates.
As a non-religionist, it baffles me to no end how homosexuality continues to be target of religion. I get the opposition to abortion on religious grounds, but you can't even concieve of a more effective measure to prevent unwanted pregnancy than to be gay - it's 100% effective in this respect, and harms absolutely nobody.
My fiancé is four years older than me, and has three kids from her prior marriage. I have two kids from my prior marriage. She has zero grandkids from her kids, and I have FIVE grandkids from my two daughters, none of them planned. The difference - two of the three of her kids are gay. They're all equally wonderful people, and the grandkids couldn't be more loved, but it jut goes to show how the discrimination towards gays is a regressive and nonsensical policy. My kids are struggling hard with being parents before they were ready, and 2/3 of hers will never even have to worry about that, ever - but will face a lifetime of second class citizenry from certain factions of their communities.
Dear Friend Hal: I voted your post way up high.
As a pro-religionist, and pro-humanitarian I too am deeply troubled, and fail to understand how anyone can claim to be religious, worship an all loving G-d, and hate any of the children of G-d just because they are different than the one with hatred in their heart.
In my tradition, there is a distinction between sin (chet) and abomination (toe-eyvah). Chet is a salvation preventer. Toe-eyvah is simply something which is not what one would expect.
Making anyone a second class citizen is sin. LGBT activity is an abomination. By the bye, abomination don't the pajeoritive to the Biblical mind that it is in modern society. It is simply a practice that isn't what people expect. Like eating shellfish or combining meat with milk (treif), or wool with linen (shotnis).
I see the struggle of people of alternative life styles as one of the last frontiers of the civil and human rights movement. I also do see an important theme for believers, what ever they believe. There is a growing body of scientific evidence that gender orientation is established prior to birth. In other words, G-d Himself made them this way. So hating, discriminating, and marginalizing those of different ways of approaching loving sustainable and long term relationships is directly rejecting the diversity G-d built into the human range of experiences.
No one should change what they believe or disbelieve because of what I do. Everyone should hold themselves accountable for any harm and hurt they cause others due to their private and societal shared prejudices.
It is not enough to say groups which are private get a pass on how they affect others. We do not allow this in cases of child abuse. We should also not allow this in cases of causing others needless pain and limitations in how they live.
Consenting adults is a great standard. Interestingly, if one studies any developed ideology or methodology for approaching life,. religious or secular, that is in there somewhere. So probably is its negate. Its all about free will.
How we choose to engage our powers to do good or evil to others is perhaps our greatest Akedah (Biding of Issac - test of character and values).
Hal, you and I are peas in a pod on this one.
As I mentioned in my prior post to your fine article, as a Chaplain I see the damage done by the smug self-righteous. It is unnecessary, unwise, immoral and he pain caused perfectly preventable.
We best serve good by being open to serving all others, including those with whom we are unalike in some ways.
Peace and Blessings to One and All.
E.
Great post, Enoch. The world could use about a billion more of you.
Making anyone a second class citizen is sin. LGBT activity is an abomination. By the bye, abomination don't the pajeoritive to the Biblical mind that it is in modern society. It is simply a practice that isn't what people expect. Like eating shellfish or combining meat with milk (treif), or wool with linen (shotnis). I see the struggle of people of alternative life styles as one of the last frontiers of the civil and human rights movement. I also do see an important theme for believers, what ever they believe. There is a growing body of scientific evidence that gender orientation is established prior to birth. In other words, G-d Himself made them this way. So hating, discriminating, and marginalizing those of different ways of approaching loving sustainable and long term relationships is directly rejecting the diversity G-d built into the human range of experiences.
Although I understand and respect your obvious compassion, I disagree with your view. Being Black is not a behavior at all and has nothing in common with engaging in homsoexuality. Homsexuality is not treated in the Bible as something prohibited (like eating shellfish) but rather as an abominable practice that warrants death. For instance, under civil law, both jaywalking and murder are illegal but one warrants a far more severe penalty than the other. Same sex marriage takes homosexuality to another level and extends a sacrament (marriage) to an abomination. As such, any church can resist it as contrary to its basic teachings. It used to be that one could love the sinner but hate the sin. Now it's perverted into, you must accept the sin if you love the sinner. If God made homosexuals and we must love them, behavior and all, then the same is true of every other perversion and morality as we know it would collapse. As Cerenkov states, if you want to have a same sex marriage, then Mormonism is not for you.
Dear Friend 1ofMany: Thank you for sharing your views and perspective.
Peace and Abundant Blessings,.
E.
Enoch-- It is I who thank you for recognising that sharing different perspectives is the key to understanding and that we can disagree without being disagreeable.
1 of M, has it occurred to you that your version of "morality" is just that - YOUR version?
A gay couple's version of morality might involve the desire to not contribute to the abortion rate, or flood our planet with children who are unplanned and destined to become a problem in the future. Compare that to what two consenting adults do in the privacy of their own same sex relationship, and tell me that you are on the right side of this.
1 of M, has it occurred to you that your version of "morality" is just that - YOUR version? A gay couple's version of morality might involve the desire to not contribute to the abortion rate, or flood our planet with children who are unplanned and destined to become a problem in the future. Compare that to what two consenting adults do in the privacy of their own same sex relationship, and tell me that you are on the right side of this.
My comment was that the Mormon church has a right to a view of morality consistent with its religious beliefs. As for my personal beliefs, I am fully aware that ALL opinions (including yours) are just opinions. Your justification for same sex marriage is completely irrelevant to me. I don't actually care what two people do in the privacy of their own homes and over-population can be avoided without engaging in homosexuality. Tolerance is one thing; acceptance is another. Same-sex marriage takes tolerance of deviant behavior to another level and effectively says that the behavior is acceptable as normal. That's a bridge too far for me because it's contrary to the natural order of things. Our society (including child rearing) should be based on a natural order. And you need not bother telling me that gays are born that way. That's just an opinion unsupported by any real proof. Even if there were proof, two-headed snakes are natural but they certainly aren't normal. And no I don't accept the existence of "gay" animals. And no I don't think being gay is a genetic characteristic like race or gender. If being gay were genetic, twins would either both be gay or straight because they have identical genes -- except some identical twins do not have identical sexual orientation (yes I'm aware of an unproven theory to explain it). To me, deviant sexual behavior is a choice. Take Bruce Jenner for example. Do you seriously think that man was born to be a lesbian? So yes, in answer to your question, I have absolutely no problem whatsoever telling you that I'm on the right side of this.
I got about halfway through your post. It's too familiar and depressing to finish.
Well done @1ofmany !
Any group or religion is allowed to define it's beliefs. If you are a practicing homosexual, Mormonism is probably not for you. Create your own cult, and leave them be.
Create your own cult, and leave them be.
Well, at least you were right in calling them what they are, a cult. Just like every other religion.
I'm just surprised there wasn't more outrage when they baptized Adolf Hitler.
a cult. Just like every other religion.
You are refusing to recognize the major leagues of religion ?