What about the Victims?

Very well said, Randy!

Thanks Dowser.

As many here know I am an atheist, so I don't pray. That said, instead of thinking about the blame and motive which will be determined by the FBI, I grieve for the victims, their families their friends and for America. Right now that is the most important thing to do.

I disagree. Stopping the slaughter is the most important thing to do - THEN grieve for those who are lost because stopping the slaughter took second place in importance.

I am afraid we will have to agree to disagree on this one, Buzz.

Okay Randy, we disagree. While you're grieving thousands more around the world are being killed because of what your hero Obama refuses to call Radical Islam, but then, of course, he stands with the Muslims.

IDENTIFY WHAT IS CAUSING THE SLAUGHTER, AND THEN STOP IT.

We have agencies and the military to work on that and they are. US backed troops are having very good success in Syria. But all of that is off topic.

The question posed by this article, the topic, is how do you feel about the victims. Do you have any grief for them?

Honestly Randy I have grief and anger. I think that both are normal and appropriate. 

I feel anger too. That is a very human reaction. However for myself I am keeping my anger in check as best I can until the investigation tells me who I really should be angry at.

I think that has been pretty clear at this point. I was holding out this morn, but not anymore. Even if this guy had an anger management issue, his hate and this terrible act was brought on by radical Islam. I do not fear Muslims, but I do hate radical Islam and the people who buy into this ideology. I saw too many people die on 9/11 to ever wash that out of my brain. I smelled a terrible mixture of chemicals, jet fuel and bodies for weeks. I coughed up black way too long to forget. 

What I find sad about this, is that everyone is a loser. All those poor young people who went out for a night of fun cut down. The families who will grieve and never forget. The descent Muslims who will bear the mark of this act on them. When something like this happens, everyone loses a part of them that they will never get back.

When something like this happens, everyone loses a part of them that they will never get back.

I couldn't agree more.

I also don't think that it was just a coincidence that he picked a gay bar. He was also Bipolar according to his ex-wife that he used to beat on and his own father said this was an attack on gays more then anything religious or Islamic. I hope the investigation is moving fast to nail down what is motive really was. I am still not sure.

Not dance on their bodies to try to score political or hateful points.

And yet what did Obama just do :

whitehouse

The shooter targeted a nightclub where people came together to be with friends, to dance and to sing, and to live. The place where they were attacked is more than a nightclub -- it is a place of solidarity and empowerment where people have come together to raise awareness, to speak their minds, and to advocate for their civil rights.

Obama decided to refer to a gay hookup nightclub as a political meeting place . Sick politicking ...

No. It is not politicking. The President is expect to address the nation after something like this, but  also talked about grief and prayers for the victims. The quote you posted is not politicking in any manner, except in a mentally twisted view.

The quote you posted is not politicking in any manner

I can't help it if your liberal agenda gets in the way when Lord Obama speaks . A gay hookup nightclub is in no way a political meeting site .

You are off topic, Peety. Please don't do that again. This is an article about how do you feel about the victims. There this time enough for pointing fingers after the investigation. Do you feel any grief for them?

A gay hookup nightclub

It was a gay nightclub. The hookup part is in your head. Nice way to make the victims dirty. 

Nice way to make the victims dirty.

I agree. The are innocent Americans. Being gay does not diminish their deaths in any manner. The are still innocent American human beings.

Being gay does not diminish their deaths in any manner.

I agree . Nor does it over emphasize their deaths by calling what they did political action .

it is a place of solidarity and empowerment where people have come together to raise awareness, to speak their minds, and to advocate for their civil rights.

That is merely stating the truth. Many gay clubs are also political gathering places for the local gay community, so the President was correct.

However this is still off topic. So no more political issues.

The question of this article is about are you grieving for the victims or not?

However this is still off topic. So no more political issues.

Guess what . In order to change topics to non-political ones it is necessary for YOU to follow your own rules . If you think you are above the rules you set up I'm telling you to stop being a hypocrite .

I admit that I have wandered a tiny bit off topic when responding to some political questions and have apologized for it, so I am not a hypocrite. It will not happen again and this article will stay ON TOPIC.

No I try to limit my grieving as much as possible even when a family member dies. I know people die everyday and I need to stay balanced if I grieved every time someone was shot in Detroit, Chicago or Iraq I would spend all my time grieving. I'm not as affected  by media sensationalism as some people. Yes it's sad for the victims and the families but It's just as sad for all the victims that never make national news headlines or the bicycle riders that were killed in Michigan the other day. Coming from the Detroit area where the news was filled murder everyday you learn how to stay positive and not spend all your time grieving.

I know the Dalai Lama hears of horrible acts of violence against his people from the oppressive Chinese and still he maintains a happy positive outlook. He understands to spend all his time grieving would be counterproductive. We learn from him happiness is the purpose of life. 

Here are some words of wisdom regrading grief from the Dalai Lama.

  First, they could reflect that if they worried too much, allowing themselves to be too overwhelmed by the sense of loss and sorrow, and if they carried on with that feeling of being overwhelmed, not only would it be very destructive and harming to themselves, ruining their health, but also it would not have any benefit to the person who has passed away

"For example, in my own case, I have lost my most respected tutor, my mother, and also one of my brothers. When they passed away, of course, I felt very, very sad. Then I constantly kept thinking that it's no use to worry too much, and if I really loved these people, then I must try to fulfill their wishes with a calm mind. So I try my best to do that. So I think if you've lost someone who is very dear to you, that's the proper way to approach it. You see, the best way to keep a memory of that person, the best remembrance, is to see if you can carry on the wishes of that person.

"Initially, of course, feelings of grief and anxiety are a natural human response to a loss. But if you allow these feelings of loss and worry to persist, there's a danger; if these feelings are left unchecked, they can lead to a kind of self- absorption.  

A situation where the focus becomes your own self. And when that happens you become overwhelmed by the sense of loss, and you get a feeling that it's only you who is going through this. Depression sets in. But in reality, there are others who will be going through the same kind of experience. So, if you find yourself worrying too much, it may help to think of the other people who have similar or even worse tragedies. Once you realize that, then you no longer feel isolated, as if you have been singlepointedly picked out. That can offer you some kind of condolence.

In my opinion the premise of this article is insufficient.

We only truly mourn the deaths of people we have a personal connection with. When a plane crashes with 250 people on board we don't say "let's not discuss why it happened, let's just remember the victims."   When a large building fire takes 20 lives we don't just mourn the victims, we talk about what the caused the fire.  A few months ago a family of 7 was murdered in their house, and strangers didn't just mourn their deaths , they asked "who did it?"

This incident has unique components , it has elements of great interest to opposing ends of the political spectrum, and occurred in the heat of a already vicious presidential election.

I agree with John's assessment. We might be horrified by the event, but unless someone close to us has perished, the question of grief doesn't really come into the picture. Randy is obviously extremely altruistic.  (That's not an insult, Randy, it's a compliment.)

If I were an American, I would be grieving for my country.

If I were an American, I would be grieving for my country.

I am and have said so.

Try not to lose track of the positive direction we are heading with declining crime and murder rates over the last forty years.

I have noticed that crime nationally, especially violent crime, has been steady going down over the past few decades and am very pleased about that. I would like to say however that here are many young men in prison who shouldn't be there for minor drug offenses and wish we would come up with a fair solution to that. I know I am off topic with this reply and apologize.

So, while I do grieve for America (and especially for the victims) because the attack in Orlando was an attack on all of us. An attack on all of what we stand for as a nation, I never have and will never lose my faith in our nation to preserver in our ideals.

In my opinion the premise of this article is insufficient.

We have professional agencies to o that and they have not completed their investigation yet. That is the time to talk about what happened and what we can do abut it. To talk about it now is to discuss the issue with incomplete information and rumors. Now is not the time talk about the crime when we still are not certain what the motive was.

As for the premise of the article being insufficient? Well I wrote it to cover only one area of this tragic attack because that's the only area I want covered in it until we are certain of the outcome of the investigation. Any who feels this article should be political or go beyond grieving for the victims is certainly free to write their own article and ignore this one. Thank you and please stay on the topic of the article or do not post.

When a plane crashes with 250 people on board we don't say "let's not discuss why it happened, let's just remember the victims."

Of course not. We morn the dead and injured WHILE the professionals figure out what went wrong. Then we discuss how it happened and how it can be prevented from happening again. How can we discuss it if we don't have the facts and just speculation and rumors? When it comes to this shooter, who is proving to be a very complex person with more then one possible motive, I'd like to hear more before I decide why it happened.