Moderate and balanced: open or not?
That's the question. I joined it and read some of the topics and comments from a number of liberal and conservative members. I seeded a 2 part article I found on Real Clear Politics from the center left German publication Der Speigel. It was a very reasonable article. This evening I returned found the group size reduced by one, my articles gone and membership stripped away. It now as an "open" group says membership pending. What happened? How can a group be open if it isn't joinable by clicking on the join group button? Or if it can be reconsidered for no apparent reason? Is it a glitch or something else?
Article is LOCKED by author/seeder
Who is online
116 visitors
Seems suspicious.
"While the article's titles above, posted by XX, were not against the rules, the dialogue in the articles were, so they have been deleted and XX has been booted.
We're not having any articles denigrating about 1/2 the US population."
From Dowser. You were booted, XX. Not very moderate or balanced, eh?
First of all no where near half of the population is PC and the two part article was written by a center left foreign publication and picked up by Real Clear Politics which is a mainstream clearinghouse for political articles.
Not at all and not surprising considering who runs the group.
Pretty hateful there XX.
You sure you wanna go down this road?
I don't understand the basis for you being booted either.
But responding in hate is not the answer.
I don't hate anyone. Not sure what road I'm going down as I withdrew my request to join. This will be the end of it. Venting over. There was no legitimate or objective basis for what happened. Most likely enough progressive left moderates threatened to leave the group if I was permitted to stay so the one was sacrificed to satisfy the many. That's my guess.
Well no worries, the allies are gathering to your defense as I'm sure you are well aware.
The real issue is going to be just how much are they going to reveal they are exactly what they hate so much on the site themselves.
So it is good that one reevaluate where one lies on the public scale of moderate and hated. it is usually not the same and is much lower than the esteem we, and our friends hold us.
Hard thing to accept at times my friend, but one we must if we intend to get along in the world.
And the ones that don't give a flying fuck or publicly claim they don't are the ones fooling themselves.
Seems to me you go on, and when someone conflicts with your beliefs you are content to let the army come to your defense.
Signs of a weak character my friend, something to consider.
"Signs of a weak character my friend, something to consider."
Seems pretty baseless, friend.
Indeed. Well said Cerenkov.
If you truly believe that, delete this thread and stop whining.
XX, did you bother to contact the group owner before you posted this article and try to find out what the situation was?
I suspect that you didn't, It seems that it's far better to for you to whine about it on the FP...It must be the persecution thing again.
Your not the first person to be bounced out of a group, and you won't be the last. Deal with it.
It would not be his job to find out. He should have been notified. Obviously.
In fact by your own comment above, he was notified why, Cerenkov.
A heneral post made to a group you were ejected from does not constitute notification.
LOL, in your opinion, Cerenkov...
Do you know that XX wasn't notified by the group owner in an email?
In my opinion, yes. That's what this site is about. If opinions offend you, you should flee. Wrt notification, did you even read his statement above? Geez.
I voice my opinion quite often. I have no problem with a person opinion as long as they don't try to pass it off as fact...
Yes, I read the statement. My question to you is how do you know for a fact that XX wasn't contacted by the group owner.
That's ridiculous. I should assume he's lying? Why bother? What is the motivation?
I sent an email to XX. Maybe he didn't check it.
Lady Dowser - because you are who you are I felt confident that there was some misunderstanding. You would not be unfair. I don't know if X remembers this but he did say you were his favorite Liberal. :0)
Maybe since we are trying to reset the site you would be willing to give X another go at it. It would be an interesting experiment to see whether X can post articles without inflammatory language.
If XX contacts me and signs a contract, stating he will abide by the rules of the group, he is welcome to join. However, he has not done so.
He has rejoined and left 4 times this morning.
READ THE RULES, folks. This is not a group for hate or snark. It amazes me that people can't read the rules and follow them.
There was nothing objectively wrong with those seeds. They broke no rules and were from a very moderate centrist site examining the causes of the results of the election. There were no attacks on anyone. There was nothing hurtful or derogatory about anyone in the two part Der Speigel article carried by Real Clear Politics. Those articles broke none of the above rules.
Why don't you publish them on the FP, and let all of us see them?
First, you WERE notified by email. Second, No armchair moderating. Third, If you have a question or complaint, you are to contact me, the group owner. Fourth, IF you are banned from the group, don't try to rejoin. I've received 4 notices this morning that you have left the group-- so you had to have rejoined at least twice. Fifth, attacking other members of the group is not acceptable. I mean, Gee whiz, XX, what is this article, other than an attack?
If you don't want to follow the rules of the group, don't join. I think that you saw a "golden opportunity" to spread the word on your own agenda, and are just frustrated that your agenda was blocked. Lashing out at me isn't going to make me want to allow you back in. And there is clearly a way to rejoin, as stated in the rules of the group.
READ THE RULES
I did read the rules. The seeds broke none of them in any objective way to any objective mind. I did seed a different non objective right of center version of it from a different writer and source to the news and politics forum that you would had reasonable grounds to object to in "moderate and balanced".
The owner of the group said that he was notified by email.
"That's ridiculous. I should assume he's lying? Why bother? What is the motivation?"
Lol - Cerenkov accused me of lying in this very article. He has no problems with assuming that people are lying, so long as they aren't his people.
This cracks me up. Jeff has a religious group that he wouldn't let me into, and it's filled with articles about atheism and how science justifies the existence of God. I can only assume he's set this up so he can create his own little echo chamber to bash people like me.
Jeff, I need to inform you of something. I am God's favorite atheist. He told me that this is his way of punishing you for disrespecting me. He's got worse plans for you in the afterlife - better shape up while you still can!
Hal, that is not even close to being a fair comparison. Why would someone want an atheist sitting in church every Sunday who jumps up and down criticizing the preacher throughout the entire sermon?
God. God would want him there. God would want the preacher and parishioners to never give up and never turn anyone away.
I think your argument would have been better just to say that X wants to have religious discussions with like minded individuals without having non believers derail their discussions. It's his right to have the type of group and members he's seeking for his group but once someone is a member then they should be given the courtesy of knowing why their membership is revoked.
God may have wanted hm there PJ, but my point is the people in the church who were there to worship would not want him there. It may be right or wrong, but it is a fact. Besides, God isn't running Jefferson's group, Jefferson is and he didn't want him there because he is smart enough to realize Hal would do nothing but aggravate the people in the group, just as Dowser probably saw the same thing in Jefferson being in her group. Be it true or false, that is how she saw it.
As far as discussing articles, Jefferson has one of the best records in not getting COC violations of anyone on this site. Dowser and probably some of the most active COC violators on this site and in that group decided they didn't want him there because they can't discuss articles moderate and balanced even in a moderate and balanced if they don't like the articles.
Jefferson may have acted a immature in skipping a conversation with Dowser, but he does have a right to vent, like everyone else has. He has vented, he has moved on and realizes the way it is.
Maybe someone should start a "The Real Moderate and Balanced" group, but I would venture to say it would become an echo chamber just like the one we have now.
This article is all the evidence anyone needs to conclude that groups are a stupid concept. They are just another word for nations.
I somewhat agree. Groups can be good, but political groups will be hard to maintain civility. I don't know anything much about nations, since I was banned from that site for trying to promote positive ideas into the minds over there. They didn't like it when I said the best thing a person could do for their financial future was manage their money no matter how little they had to manage. According to them people were so poor they couldn't do that.
Cartoon the News, whoever that was, I suspect it was Tyler and two other ganged up on me and told everyone to put spam on all my comments. I don't think they liked hearing what I had to say. LOL And I never said anything bad, nor did I ever break any of the COCs. Tyler didn't like it when I told a member he was arguing with Tyler using an alias. LOL
I hear Tyler and the lady moderator there have moved on from Newsvine. Maybe it's worth a try to go back. Probably not.
Lol - six, it's obvious that Jeff wanted to do exactly what he is complaining about here. I doubt anyone in a "fair and balanced" news group would want Jeff in it either! He is the least fair and balanced member of this site.
Btw, I just noticed that his religious group is now open, so I joined. That was not the case when he created it though.
It was never anything other than open. It's never changed.
Sounds like you may have lied, Hal.
You like to throw the word liar out a lot.
That's what liars do.
Speaking from personal experience? All you had to do to join was hit the join group space and you would have been in a long time ago. I'm not a control freak.
You are such a liar. I tried to join when you opened it, and I got a message that said membership pending. That message stayed there for months until I finally withdrew my request. I even confronted you about it publicly.
How about that - a diehard Christian who lies. Pathetic.
I suppose it's the company I keep here, PJ.
Well I try and respect you by not keeping company with you since you consider me a liar among other claims. I'm simply pointing out that it will only be down to you and X and a few other extremists once you're done labeling everyone liars who don't completely agree with you but I will still wish you good luck.
There is a lot of premature accusations going on here. While I agree that members should be contacted prior to having their membership revoked let's not forget that Perrie has been working on the site and it could very well have been a glitch.
If it wasn't a glitch then I hope the moderators will consider reaching out to offenders in the future so they aren't blindsided. It will give the offender and moderator an opportunity to discuss why the article/post was deemed a violation.
I'm pretty sure there was a glitch, but it was in allowing Jefferson to join in the fire place. Jefferson is known. for putting articles up that drive the Liberals crazy and they don't want the same thing to happen in the so-called "Moderate and Balanced" group.
Face it folks, Liberals are B&MINOs.
There was no glitch with that. Groups are either open or private. Not open with preconditions.
'' Groups are either open or private. Not open with preconditions.''
Groups have rules and those rules are preconditions to joining the group. If you can't abide by the rules, you'll get bounced.
Simple enough.
`
Why can't we just all get along.........
XX, you received an email from me about why your articles were deleted and why you were booted. First, did you read the rules of the group?
The Moderates and Balanced Group is a place where we can discuss issues without insulting each other. If you can’t do that, do not join the group! A brief rundown of the rules:
As a member of this group you are expected to discuss the issues with civility and respect.
If you are banned from the group, do not try to rejoin. If you wish to appeal the banning you must contact me personally and agree to abide by the rules by contract. If you are subsequently banned again, there is no appeal.
Pay attention to moderation directives. Moderators can give directives in a thread (e.g., stop posting off-topic, stop bad behavior, etc.). Everyone is expected to abide by such directives. Directives may be general ("stop being so hostile") to specific ("no more talk about chili”), and are intended to keep a thread from completely derailing. If you feel that your article is being derailed, please contact me and I will delete as necessary, or issue a moderation directive.
No trolling. Don't make posts that are inflammatory. Attacking other members of our group is not acceptable. Substance with a dash of personal attacks is considered skirting the rules of the group and will be treated as a violation. Emojis used alone as a comment, will not be tolerated. If you disagree, you must state why.
Ad hominem and personal attacks are not permitted. Again: criticize the ideas, not the people. An ad hominem attack is a logical fallacy describing the attempt to discredit an argument by merely attacking the credibility of the arguer. Excessive flaming will not be tolerated. Users who verbally assault the character or person of other posters on a regular basis will be banned. Moderator's judgment applies here. "You are wrong" is not a personal attack; "You wrong because you are an idiot" is. Persistent name-calling is a violation.
No Armchair Moderating. If you’re not an assigned moderator, do not add your moderation. All concerns about moderation should be sent to the group owner.
In all ways, we will abide by the Code of Conduct, as a minimum standard of behavior.
To file a complaint, ask a question, etc., please contact the group owner, Dowser. You can contact me via Private Message or Chat.
Do not publish articles whose titles are designed to be hurtful to others. There will be no acceptance of articles that denigrate other groups of people, including religion, party affiliation, race, etc. Articles that are newsworthy about a group i.e. “Muslim men are raping German Women" is acceptable as news story. An article entitled, “All Muslims Rape”, is a hate piece and will be removed. Please make sure your articles are factual, and do not publish “click bait” articles, unless they are of innocuous subjects, like cute dogs and cats, (as an example).
The use of foul language is prohibited and will be deleted.
Other rules may be added as needed, as will be other moderators, etc. Until then, I expect all of us to behave as adults! Comments will not be archived, and therefore, cannot be restored. We will discuss rule changes as necessary.
The Moderate and Balanced Group is like a neighborhood-- we all have to 'get along' to make any progress.
Thank you,
Dowser
As I said in my note to you, the titles of the articles weren't against the rules, BUT the narrative was. Predominantly the use of the term "Progressive Lefties" in a disparaging way. The purpose of the group is to have a pleasant place to discuss the issues of the day, and to enjoy the site. I don't know that you can. IF you note the rules above, moderating questions are to be referred to me, not the Front Page.
You can't just demand to be a member of a group, and you must abide by the rules of the group. To our new members-- Cerenkov and Badfish, Welcome! I sincerely hope we can have some productive conversations, without snark and denigration of others.
This article should be closed immediately.
XX, if the moderator is not here it is up to you to remove this abomination.
Content controlling much?
Haven't the depths of this 'fascinating' topic been thoroughly plumbed?
Many wastes of time like this on this forum have been closed for comments and this one certainly deserves such a fate.
XX,
Kavika was booted from a group for no reason at all and without notice. I do believe that an email was sent to him, but I am not sure about that.
Just like you want to control the content of your group, Dowser would like to control hers. I looked at the article and it was not from a moderate perspective, which is what the group is named. You can't complain, when the rules are spelled out and you have done the same with your group. That is the purpose of these groups. They are to achieve a level of comfort that you don't have on the front page.
Der Speigel isn't moderate? I seeded a truly conservative similar article on news and politics that I wouldn't have put in M&B. I don't believe the authors of the article wrote it with the intent to mock, belittle, make fun of, or attack any group of Americans. That said, this has gone on enough so please close comments here.
You shouldn't close comments, you should delete the article.
Wasn't the source, wasn't the title, it was the CONTENT!
You post it, your responsible for the content also.
Seems pretty plain and straightforward to me.
What was the objectionable hate content of the Der Speigel articles? Please supply examples of what the article said that was intended to cause harm or hate toward anyone.
Isn't the point what I think of the articles, it wasn't the point of what you think of the articles.
It IS the point on where your posting them and what the owner of the house thinks.
In this situation it doesn't matter what I think.
Your whining cause it really doesn't matter what you think either.
But then we all should be able to go into anyone's house and say anything at all that comes into your mind and not expect consequences for said behavior?
You are claiming a right not to respect the owner of the house.
And that never flies in any situation with me.
I have been told I'd get a three day suspension if I deleted an article others have posted on without prior approval. I said she could close comments and stand by that.
Now that is a bunch of horseshit, I've deleted articles of my own creation that had dozens of responses.
Ask BF, he's deleted a few I know for sure. As well as I have. (and I know you have also)
This one has NO redeeming qualities, it SHOULD go.
Take up your horseshit comment with Perrie. Liberals whined that I was supposedly deleting seeds they commented on that I didn't like. They squeaked and their wheel got the grease.
Oh, now whose the hurt little snowflake?
The poor sad puppy that has been abused....
Your no better than those you complain about.
The hate is palpable isn't it.....
From some angles I would never have expected.
Even the Founders understood that everything said is not free speech.
XX, both of your articles have been temporarily restored, and the parts highlighted where they were not in keeping with the group.
I also had to change the settings of the group to keep you out of it. Thanks for forcing me to make all membership additions approved, but there is always someone who can't play fairly. Right? In this case, it is YOU.
Also, thanks, too, for spamming the group with about 30 comments about how your Der Spiegal articles weren't hateful to anyone. All 30 of those messages have been deleted from the comment wall.
STOP with the passive aggressive behavior. No one agrees with your dirty tricks, other than your friends. Also, here is a copy of the email that I sent you:
Dear XX--
The titles of your articles were fine, but the narratives were insulting to about 1/2 the members of the moderate and balanced group. For example: "Progressive Lefties". We don't do that, in the group.
I had to boot you, as you broke the rules. Sorry!
So you were flat-out lying.
Wow - what did I miss?!!! So much fighting going on and even between member that are generally on the same team. This is like Christmas all over!! Now, if we could just fire up the oil and have a fish fry I'd be happy.
This article is now closed for comments.