Many years ago I thought of Berkeley as a certre for free thinkers - what a huge change since then.

Tempest in a tea pot. 

Just a way for the right to distract away from their disaster foisted upon the world, Donald J Trump. 

This is your opportunity to call Maher a "hustler" like you called Coulter earlier today ... Get to it !

I posted this article with absolutely no thought about Trump. It was a topic about free-thinking, free speech and respect for others' views.  You are so f...king obsessed with Trump that you have absolutely no control over your brain and your fingers when it comes to any opportunity at all to dsparage Trump. I wouldn't be surprised if you went out in the middle of the night and spray-painted on the side of buildings your hatred of him.

 I wouldn't be surprised if you went out in the middle of the night and spray-painted on the side of buildings your hatred of him.

Buzz-- don't give him any ideas! 

OMG. You're probably right. LOL

Just a way for the right to distract away from their disaster foisted upon the world, Donald J Trump.

Since when is Bill Maher part of "the right"?   You can't even admit it when one of your own has the balls to actually tell the truth.   I am sure he will not hear the end of that comment soon.

The new Berkeley moto: The only speech that is free is the speech with which I agree. Berkeley is a threat to democracy. 

In all seriousness, who gives a fuck? We have so many bigger problems than "Berkeley" it's not even funny. 

Here's a big problem :

Californians deserve safety: Mob of 60 Teens Rob and Beat Passengers on Train

Comment removed for skirting the Coc. [ph]

I expect they were all black . This was a classic flash mob that the prevalence of Obama-phones has provided ... BTW , if you had been on that train you'd have gotten robbed too !

Your prejudices precede your comments Petey. 

You come across like someone who is immune to getting attacked by blacks . But you're not . Wake the fuck up !

Comment removed for CoC violation [ph]

I had a comment to you deleted because I alluded to that fact. Consider yourself lucky. 

Comment removed for Context [ph] Stop lying about me ...

Comment removed for CoC violation [ph] You have a 2 day suspension ending Thursday 27th at 1am.   Blacks forced you to become racist when they robbed you. You told the whole story one time.

Your Comment removed for CoC violation [ph] interpretation of my history is the problem here ... that & the fact you believe you are immune from black on white crime ...

Are there no police on the trains to shoot this scum or must the passengers do it themselves? 

its California , with all those EXELLENT gun control laws .......

Oakland does not represent California.

Oakland does not represent California.

Not even close. I would not live in any other state!

I don't need a gun. I can get by with my favorite makeshift weapon -- a padlock on a metal choke chain. 

In California (and in many states I believe) if you don't have a dog with to go with that and you are carrying it in a pocket, it is still a concealed weapon. Do what I used to do. Roll of quarters in a a short sock. Not a weapon in any state that I know of, because you just came from the bank or are just using the sock to carry your money in until you get to or back from the bank. Even if the roll breaks while, "in use" it's still a sock full of larger coins and still hurts like shit (I know, it was a favorite at my high school, though I didn't use that in school. I sharpened the point of the hook on my western style belt buckle and wrapped the belt around my hand. Took a few extra seconds to get to (that's what you have friends to hit the other guy for LOL!), but cops never even look there.)

Randy must be a member of one of those California Mexican gangs we've been hearing so much about...!!! (Or worse yet--  MI5)!

My bad-- I've never really been good at the Maths. 

Actually what I meant to say was:

one of those California Mexican gangs we've been hearing so much about...!!! (Or worse yet-- the dreaded  MS-13  ( Mara Salvatrucha)!!!

Which is actually not Mexicans anyway-- they're mostly from Central America:

MS-13  ( Mara Salvatrucha ; also known as simply  MS  or  Mara ) is an international  criminal gang  that originated in  Los Angeles, California . The majority of the gang is ethnically composed of  Central Americans  (mostly  Salvadorans ) and active in urban and suburban areas. In existence since the 1980s, it has since spread to many parts of continental United States, Canada, Mexico, and Central America.

Members of MS distinguish themselves by tattoos covering the body and also often the face, as well as the use of their own  sign language . They are notorious for their use of violence and a  subcultural moral code  that predominantly consists of merciless revenge and cruel retributions. This cruelty of the distinguished members of the " Maras " or "Mareros" earned them a path to be recruited by the  Sinaloa Cartel  battling against  Los Zetas  i n  an ongoing drug war  south of the United States border. ^{[5] [6] [7]}

( Optional: Get Smarter Here )

Yeah, I've tried the roll of quarters too. It's certainly better than being unarmed but it's too clumsy for me (although, as you say, not a concealed weapon). The lock on a chain gives me enough control to stand against a man armed with a knife or multiple attackers. I have other things that I can carry on my person but I store the lock and chain on my scooter (that I use to commute) just in case. It's basically a modern ball on chain battle mace and very few people could get past it.

Last thanksgiving, a man broke into my house and I took him down with a 5' bamboo pole even though he had my combat knife and my sword. The pole gave me an advantage in striking range and the weapons he had stolen we're still sheathed. So different things can work in different circumstances.

actually john , I give a fuck , because the idea of free speech being stifled , leads to no conversation , no exchange or understanding of ideas ,  and personally I find your attempts to derail or to bait a derailment Comment removed for skirting [ph] time to learn  that YOU don't always get things your way and no one actually gives a fuck as you say about your opinion because your not feeding them, not fucking them , and your not signing their pay checks, so all you have is your opinion , which frankly I don't think very many "give a fuck about" Comment removed for skirting [ph] 

Buzz I apologize for the off topic comment , feel free to have it removed  if you feel it is warrented , oh and I flagged johns comment for you for being off topic , just so people know it wasn't you .

and personally I find your attempts to derail or to bait a derailment rather like my 4 year old grand daughter throwing a hissy fit because she got the green sippy cup instead of the pink one

Well now that is just offensive! I mean everyone KNOWS that green sippy cups always make the juice and milk taste better then the pink ones! Give her back the green one! Damn! Hell, I'd throw a hissy fit too! I mean...I would......if I wasn't a guy...and...you know...a grown up....and.......you know.....a grandfather too...and...never mind....(bet my grand daughter is cuter (LOL!)) To me at least!

(oh shit...i posted that before I saw perrie deleted those....i wonder if she'll notice....maybe if i just quietly hide over here in the corner near the window....then i can sneak out or something...might work.....) DAMN IT! WHO NAILED THE DAMNED WINDOWS SHUT! SHIT!

 DAMN IT! WHO NAILED THE DAMNED WINDOWS SHUT! SHIT!

Don't worry-- you can always come in through the bathroom window!!!

I couldn't open your YouTube Krishna,  but I will assume it was the Beatles singing "She Came In Through the Bathroom Window", which really brings back a bad memory of someone I had to have had as a guest in my home at one time for a little leisurely smoke, and he knew where my stash was, and he broke in through the main floor powder room window when I wasn't home, stole my stash, and of course I couldn't report THAT to the B&E squad.

I couldn't open your YouTube Krishna,  but I will assume it was the Beatles singing "She Came In Through the Bathroom Window", which really brings back a bad memory of someone I had to have had as a guest in my home at one time for a little leisurely smoke, and he knew where my stash was, and he broke in through the main floor powder room window when I wasn't home, stole my stash, and of course I couldn't report THAT to the B&E squad.

Damn!!!! Sometimes trying to post a comment is so frustrating.

randy , we grandpa's are allowed to be biased towards our own grand daughters , there is no foul , so no harm , I think all grand daughters when around grampa's are cute , they have us wrapped around their pinkies and they know it , which is worse.

Damn do they know it!

Mark, 

time to learn  that YOU don't always get things your way and no one actually gives a fuck as you say about your opinion because your not feeding them, not fucking them , and your not signing their pay checks, so all you have is your opinion , which frankly I don't think very many "give a fuck about". 

John , I have always said things are my own opinion , not gospel from the all high and mighty progressive socialist mount of manooder or any place in general. as far as my opinion , at least I can converse about stated topics , with a minimum of side tracks ( derailment ) and if I do ,acknowledge and apologize, and have those conversations in a civil manner ( for the most part) where some agreement can be reached with the person I am having the discussion with, and factor in I am a rare presence but seem to be somewhat likable to a wide variety of members , I don't think I would want to venture a guess on whom the members in general would like to see here commenting more , me or you. if it were a popularity contest , based on civility and the willingness to at least consider others points , it could be interesting.

Everything people say on a discussion forum, unless they are quoting someone or some source, is an opinion. That is a given. 

Everything people say on a discussion forum, unless they are quoting someone or some source, is an opinion. That is a given. 

The Earth is round--no. its not flat!. It travels around the Sun (no-- the Sun does not revolves around the Earth!).Why don't we fall off? Because of gravity!

(Just my opinions, of course

"Everything people say on a discussion forum, unless they are quoting someone or some source, is an opinion. That is a given."

Jane Austen wrote the novel Pride and Prejudice.

Alan Dershowitz was the Felix Frankfurter Law Professor at Harvard University

Steven Speilberg directed the movie "Shindler's List".

All opinions, of course.

John , I have always said things are my own opinion , not gospel from the all high

Oh I can testify to that. He's wrong a lot of the time! (Hmmm...another scotch? Yes or no? Um.....sure...why not?)

LOL randy , I find being right or wrong , is much like being smart or stupid , it depends entirely on both where you are standing and where you are from. Example , city boy goes and visits his country cousin , and is told if he wants milk with his cereal he has to go milk the cow , he does as told  and comes back in pours what he collected over his cereal and proceeds to eat , all the while making faces ,  while eating he comments on how the cow he milked only had one teat, and the milk tasted strange..... and I will leave that example right there.

LOL! I was raised both in the city (very young) and then in the country. As far as the meaning of that joke goes I am glad it was that way around.

Well Mark we used to disagree a lot more strongly then we do now. Which means that we are getting older, wiser or more mellow. I choose wiser and more mellow. Of course you are still just as wrong as you always have been, but I have become a lot more tolerant. Still, even when you are wrong, you and I agree that you are wrong (from my POV) a lot more cordially then we used to. Think I'll have another scotch to toast that. LOL!

BTW, have you noticed that we seemed to have found more things that we DO agree on? Weird, huh? Probably shocking the hell out of the site's parishioners from the far extremes of both sides of the church. Hell, we might set a trend! Next thing you know, even XX and I might start gett..........nah.......oh well...never mind....LOL!

randy I think we came to the understanding , and acceptance , that we have different points of view , fostered by different life experiences , which lead us to form the beliefs we each have , and it is the acceptance  we show that I think matters , old saying is there are many ways to skin a cat , I think we have come to realize that even though we each may think the other is wrong from our point of view , that  there is often more than one way to get to a stated objective if we actually listen for the commonalities of our positions , it is from those commonalities that we can attempt to work towards even more agreement and hopefully to a "Common goal" but for it all to happen , what does have to happen is to stop being confrontational  for its own sake, and actually do 2 other things , we actually have to listen to one another , and we have to understand what we are hearing , what is really meant by what is being said .

 I think another thing that you and I do  without thinking about it , we don't exactly put too much of our egos into the discussions we have , we have nothing to prove to each other , because there is a mutual respect I think.

hopefully I said that in a way that makes sense , because I think most arguments( and problems) on this site start with a lack of common curtesy and mutual respect .

hopefully I said that in a way that makes sense

It does make sense to me Mark (and not just because I have been drinking...lol). I think it really is that we don't have a lot to prove to each other, mostly because we are both (shudder) older then some of the young bulls here on the site and we have both lived longer lives and so have collected many experiences. Granted the experiences we have collected and which have contributed to us and how they have helped form our opinions are completely different. Then again that is to be expected. America is a very large country and we, in effect, come really from two different different countries in some ways as far as our experiences are. Yes, we are held together by the same Constitution, which even though I am an atheist is my bible. It sounds silly but I worship my country as my religion and the government that I think as it was and is meant to be.

Of course, because of our two different life experience, from as I said basically two different countries as far as local values and beliefs, etc., are concerned and what we were taught and figured out on our own, we both look at that document and interpret it differently, but I would like to think that people like you and I can agree to disagree that, just because our interpretations are different and what we think this or that part of it means, that we still can have the same love and respect for it and find common ground in at least most of it and not have to hate each other over the parts that we do see differently.

I think that it really does come with age (that sound you just heard was my father and both of my grandfathers yelling "YES!, even though I know there is no after life (we can argue about that another time)). I think it really does come with an accumulation of life experiences and realizing that just because these people have had different life experiences that make them look at America or the world or the Constitution or the Bill of Rights or the Declaration of Independence differently does not really mean that I am right and they are wrong. It just means that I am right according to how I was raised and how I was molded by my life experiences and that they are right to themselves for the same reasons.

Of course when you do come right down to it, the real truth is that you are wrong and I am always right Mark. LOL.

there is often more than one way to get to a stated objective if we actually listen for the commonalities of our positions , it is from those commonalities that we can attempt to work towards even more agreement and hopefully to a "Common goal

Whoa-- wait a second! I though you weren't allowed to do that on the Internet...???

BTW, you do realize that that joke is as old as the invention of Corn Flakes, don't you? Which was invented accidentally in 1894 by John H. Kellogg with his brother William W. Kellogg and was partially produced to prevent masturbation. I kid you not. I lived in Battle Creek (Creek, not Crick. They are really, really, really sensitive about that there!) for a few years in the late 1960's and early 1970's before in joined the Air Force and you could actually take a for credit course on Kellogg's at Battle Creek Central High School as an English Dept. elective.

"Dr. Kellogg introduced Kellogg Corn Flakes in hopes that it would reduce masturbation . In fact, Kellogg devoted much of his energy to discouraging sexual activity of any kind, and was an especially ardent critic of masturbation, which he believed could cause "cancer of the womb, urinary diseases, nocturnal emissions, impotence, epilepsy, insanity, and mental and physical debility" as well as "dimness of vision" and moral corruption."

There is a fantastic movie about the very odd John H. Kellogg called "The Road to Wellville" staring Anthony Hopkins as Kellogg and a supporting cast that includes Matthew Broderick, Katherine Bates and Eric Idle. It was a a sleeper film that slipped under the critic's radar, but is becoming a real cult classic. I have a copy and have watched it at least 40 times and it is more funny and odd every time.

en.wikipedia

saw the movie, and as for old jokes , there are no old jokes if you have a young audience.....

time to learn  that YOU don't always get things your way and no one actually gives a fuck as you say about your opinion because your not feeding them, not fucking them , and your not signing their pay checks, so all you have is your opinion , which frankly I don't think very many "give a fuck about". 

No need to hold back, John. Don't be shy-- why don't you tell him how you really feel? 

LOL krish , he simply repeated what I said to him thinking the old I'm rubber your glue what you say bounces off me and sticks to you  meme.

@ Mark

No apology necessary, your comment appears to have been edited already.

Free speech is the cornerstone of democracy. It cannot be abridged if we are to remain free. 

"Progressives" are a threat to democracy.

"Progressives" are a threat to democracy.

96 I cant really get behind that , its actually a little too confining for me, though I do not adhere to the progressive lefts political ideologies or policies , I feel any person or group be they social or political, that attempts to diminish and degrade anothers ability to speak freely about their beliefs and positions  through threats of violence or some form of punishment under the color of law, are the threats to any form of government be it a collective , democracy or republic.

I saw that episode (like I see nearly every one) and he was right. I agree with him completely.

The Founding Fathers were Liberals and one of the most Liberal ideas of the time that they lived in was unfettered Free Speech. I am a Liberal and they got that one right.

one of the most Liberal ideas of the time that they lived in was unfettered Free Speech.

That was the old style of liberals , not the rank anarchists on the UC Berkely campus ...

That was the old style of liberals , not the rank anarchists on the UC Berkely campus ...

Petey, there are plenty of liberals in the CUNY school system, and they don't behave like that. You are painting with a broad brush. 

You are painting with a broad brush.

Nah . I'm painting with a very narrow brush . The only group I mentioned was the UC Berkely bunch . Completing my thoughts in response to Randy : The early US govt was not all liberal . The main motivation of the rebellion against Britain was financial : "No taxation w/o representation" . Remember that ?

as they say randy , age before beauty , respect your elders ( you are older than me)  and we can agree to disagree......

My apologies buzz for the slight derailment here with randy , but I think it can be used as an example of what free speech and the exchange of differing points of view and the free exchange and understanding  is suppose to be like .

To the contrary, I've been enjoying the diversity of comment on this seed. It's a pleasure to have seeded an article that has more than 50 comments, otherwise I would be really discouraged from seeding photo essays that took me hours to put together that only a few members bother to look at and comment on.

The Shadowy Extremist Group Behind the Anti-Trump Riots

Antifa flies under the radar despite escalating acts of violence against president's supporters

On April 15, a pro-Trump, pro-free-speech rally at University of California, Berkeley, descended into violent mayhem after radical far-leftists — members of the organization Antifa — began to attack the peacefully assembled crowd.

Antifa, which stands for “anti-fascist action,” is a network of loosely affiliated far-left anarchist and communist groups that orchestrate violent protests and attacks on populists, conservatives, and anyone else its members deem to be “fascists” or “Nazis.”

“Anyone who tries to hold any sort of right-wing event literally gets beat up by militant communists in the street.”

Antifa was formed originally in Germany in the 1980s, its members taking the name of the communist paramilitary groups that engaged the Nazis in street-fighting in the 1930s. It now has active cells across the world, including in Germany, the U.S., Canada, the Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Czechia, and France.

“Anyone who tries to hold any sort of right-wing event literally gets beat up by militant communists in the street,” said independent journalist Lauren Southern, who was present at one of the pro-Trump Berkeley rallies, in a video taken immediately following the violence.

Harrowing video footage taken by Southern’s crew showed Antifa street fighters throwing bricks and M-80 explosives into the crowd, as well as assaulting Trump supporters. Other footage released by someone present at the event showed one Antifa thug hit a Trump supporter over the head with a bicycle chain and lock.

But the Trump supporters and free speech activists — acting fully in self-defense — were able to hold their ground and drive back their Antifa attackers. In response Antifa members have only vowed to intensify their violence.

"Not getting disarmed is a big part of the problem, yes, but we need more than flags and bats," wrote one in the r/anarchism subreddit community page.

"We need to take notes from the John Brown Gun Club and get firearms and training. I know getting firearms in states and cities we have a presence in is usually a hassle, but even handguns would help," the would-be revolutionary wrote.

"It would certainly put a psychological element in while holding fash [fascists] back. Who do you think a fascist is more afraid of? People with only flags and bats, or people with flags, bats, and guns?" he wrote.

But some Antifa members have clearly had the same thought — that "flags and bats" simply aren’t enough. Indeed the Antifa United webstore temporarily sold an Antifa-branded concealed credit-card knife.

The Department of State, through U.S. Code Title 22, Chapter 38, defines terrorism as "premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents."

Antifa increasingly could plausibly fit that definition.

The U.S. Code of Federal Regulations defines terrorism as "the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives."

Antifa could also reasonably meet those conditions.

The U.S. Department of Defense defines terrorism as "the unlawful use of violence or threat of violence to instill fear and coerce governments or societies" and notes that terrorism "is often motivated by religious, political, or other ideological beliefs and committed in the pursuit of goals that are usually political."

Yes, Antifa fits that definition, too.

~Link~

Antifa is a group of anti-democracy thugs who think it's perfectly OK to hit unarmed people in the face with bricks and bottles to stop the exercise of free speech. Which is why I think the antifa chick got what she deserved when one of her potential victims punched her in the face. He should have knocked her ass out! These people need to be stopped. 

well the only question I would have for antifa , is so which is worse left wing fascism or right wing ? because to me both are ahborrant. As for the girl that got knocked on her ass? generally I am against men hitting women, I came from that age group where it was taught it is just not done.  but I also have served in police work long enough to realize that a female can be a threat to safety and does have to be dealt with accordingly.

 the female in question was acting in a manner not condusive to civil conduct or counter protesting peacefully from what I have seen , in fact by law she became a terrorist by definition of law and was employing IED's as her manner to disrupt and attempt to show displeasure and promote both kaos and confrontation , factor in that she made certain social media posts about collecting scalps ( 100 to be exact, and I wish I had saved where I saw that) that shows premeditation in my eyes of a predisposition to commit violence of some kind, but her actions proved the suspicion. 

 personally I think she is lucky all that happened is she got knocked on her ass.......