This is the 21st Century folks!! Gays have the right to eat at any restaurant they choose.

2. Not a very strongly held belief if you're too weak to speak the name of your business Good point. (He may be afraid of his restaurant being burned down.......what aloser)

And so, it begins...

As the bill becomes law, an anonymous restaurant has already called in to a local radio station to promise to refuse to serve gays Not sure if this is what you are referring to....

I've seen signs in many, many businesses that state:

We reserve the right

to refuse service to

anyone

So I always thought businesses have the right to refuse service, period. It seems completely counter-productive, discouraging people from patronizing your business is pure stupidity.

Doesn't everyone has the right to dine where ever they choose ?

And everyone else can refuse to do business at his place of business because he's a worthless piss-poor excuse for fucking flesh...and he can file for bankruptcy. Which is too good for him.

The right to refuse service to anyone sign are unenforceable if they are used to discriminate against someone on the basis of their race, gender, religion or sexual ordination under federal law. Businesses up them up but the are basically legally useless, except use them to turn away drunks and assholes.

Pence is already crawfishing on this one and Hutchinson is copping out as fast as he can-- Walmart started to talk about bailing & that was all it took. Ohio is already tossing out lures to companies looking to abandon Indiana. Apparently the corporadoes have figured out that the LGBT sector has some bucks to spend...

"Out of The Closet and Into The Stores!!"

I was googling instances of this kind of discrimination and it seems the law is really vague.

True, but I worked as a hotel GM for a number of years and taught it for 2 years before that and if we refused to rent a room to a black man or a gay couple because they were black or gay, we were going to get sued and we were going to lose, sign or no sign.

Ohio is already tossing out lures to companies looking to abandon Indiana.

Illinois is openly trying to poach business from Indiana. So are we here in California. We'll be happy to take away any business Indiana doesn't want because of their bigotry. Same with any of the other states that have these laws. Most of the rest of the other states are rolling out the welcome mat for companies who don't want to do business with religious bigots in states who like to discriminate.

Besides these laws can't be just used to discriminate against Gays and Lesbians. A Christian (or other religion) may religiously object to serving a Muslim, or a Black or a Native or a Hispanic or anyone else they hate because of racism or bigotry or the ignorant way their moronic parents raised them, because they can claim to have a religious objection to serving them. It's a get out of the law card for racists and bigots.

R eligious

F anatics

R evisionism

A ttempt

Pat.... I haven't seen that sign but, Ihave seen "No shoes No shirt No Service " signs.

"No shoes No shirt No Service " signs.

Generally, those are to avoid health dept. violations.

I understand that, I was just saying that, that is the only sign I have seen in stores.

I wonderif he had a son or daughter that suddenly "came out' he would change his attitude.

Soooo stupid. How is someone going to know someone else's sexual persuasion? If I go with a male friend will I get turned away? If a highway crew (mostly all men) will they be refused service? What is the litmus test for this?

Again. Soooo stupid.

Some parents disown their children but I've seen several conservative Christian families face the reality. It becomes a sobering moment in time, they dealt with their hypocrisy and continued the relationship with the child God blessed them with. Reminds me of interracial marriage...all against it until your possibledaughter or son in lawdoesn't look like the rest of the family.

I have a Niece who's Son "came out" at the age of 13. His Step Father ridiculed him and abused him. My Niece's Son turned to "cutting," and was hospitalized many time because ofit. He has gotten psychological help, and medication and is now 23 years old, away from his Sep Father, and doing very well. It's always surprising to me how people just can't accept things that are "not the norm" It's very sad.

I"m going to go with Max and Mickey on this one.

The business owner has the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason, AND the customer has the absolute right to refuse to partake of the business's services based upon any reasoning he wishes to use.

What is fairer than that?

The business/customer relationship is an equal one

The problem comes with the application of force to the equation in any manner.

When the business is forced to serve everyone, he harbors a resentment against those he is forced to serve. The force applied whether it is force of law or the point of a gun doesn't matter. Your making the situation worse not better.

Rights are never established by force, they are established by understanding and agreement.

So yes,

This is the 21st Century folks!! Gays have the right to eat at any restaurant they choose.

is ABSOLUTELY correct, no one is saying they don't. But....

This is the 21st Century folks!! Businesses have the right to refuse to serve anyone they choose.

Is just as correct.

The operative is CHOOSE. What is being said is that certain people (in this case gays) have the right to choose and others (in this case restaurant owners) don't.

Patently unfair.

hmmm...I never thought about Hotels refusing gays or blacks......

The business owner has the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason, AND the customer has the absolute right to refuse to partake of the business's services based upon any reasoning he wishes to use.

That's a twist on my words. The business can try to refuse service to anyone, but if that person sues in Federal Court they will win the lawsuit. And you can bet that many, many organizations are going to sue states who have these laws in Federal Court, where the states don't stand a chance. Also I was advocating a complete boycott of the business, not just the one person not served.. I suggest an LGBT organization compile a list of unfriendly places of business and include them in a lawsuit and encourage their friends, families and supporters (of which their are an amazing number) to boycott and/or picket the business until it in ends up bankrupt while the case moves through the court system.

This law can also be used to allow business owners to refuse to serve people because of their race and religion also. It is a state issued shield for racists and bigots of all kinds. These laws will not have a chance in Federal Court.

I also heard that Hutchison in Arkansas says he'll veto the law because Walmart threatened him and the legislature if he didn't and he caved big time. There will be no law like this in Arkansas. Religion walks, but money talks.

Money always talks Randy, especially in politics. That being said I didn't twist your words, I just reduced then to their innate essence.

Youll learn, as you get older, that rules are made to be broken. Be bold enough to live life on your terms, and never, ever apologize for it. Go against the grain, refuse to conform, take the road less traveled instead of the well-beaten path. Laugh in the face of adversity, and leap before you look. Dance as though EVERYBODY is watching. March to the beat of your own drummer. And stubbornly refuse to fit in.
Mandy Hale

I ask, why do we need more rules that people, being who they are, are going to break anyway?

What we choose sets who we are, therefore I believe in choosing wisely. But, NEVER take away a persons right to choose cause once you do, you elevate yourself above them.

It's not taking away a person's right to choose. It's about taking away the business owners right to chose based on race or religion or sexual orientation. That is them infringing on the rights of the people they are refusing to serve. They are placing themselves above these customers and the law says they can't. I fully support the law, because we both have rights, but if you're a public establishment, you don't have the right to take mine away. If you don't want blacks or gays in your store or returant then establish it as a private club with a list of members who are the only people allowed to patronize it. Then put a sign on the door that says something like "Private Club. No Blacks, Jews or Gays allowed". Then see how long you'll stay in business. My bet would be not very damned long. As I said, the days of Jim Crow are over and if you open up a public store or restaurant you do not have the right to refuse service to someone based on their color, race, religion, or sexual orientation. You simply do not have that right. Nor should you, because you are taking their rights away. You are putting yourself above them.

And that is what it boils down to, one side wanting to elevate themselves over others.

Not only is there often a right and wrong, but what goes around does come around, Karma exists, chickens do come home to roost, and as my mother, Phyllis, liked to say, There is always a day of reckoning. The good among the great understand that every choice we make adds to the strength or weakness of our spiritsourselves, or to use an old fashioned word for the same idea, our souls. That is every humans life work: to construct an identity bit by bit, to walk a path step by step, to live a life that is worthy of something higher, lighter, more fulfilling, and maybe even everlasting.
Donald Van de Mark

It is wrong when either side does it.

But you have to have laws to protect everyone's right not to be discriminated against or you have anarchy, or worse a return to the old south with white drinking fountains and colored ones and white's only sections of restaurants and blacks only sections which is what you are advocating. Motels the service only whites and run down beat up ones where the Negros stay. What you are advocating is naked racism, except you want it nationwide. Comment removed; inappropriate.

I see, having religious convictions is racist. Tell that to Dr King why don't you. By your standard, he was the biggest racist of them all.

Admit it, You are a racist.

Thank you for admitting it for yourself.

The conversation wasn't racist, until you made it that way. It was about right and wrong. Face it you can't recognize wrong unless it conforms to your pre-judgment.

That my friend is prejudice.

I"m done with this, can't have a discussion about anything worthwhile or explore the ramifications of such without making it about race. It must feel real good taking the cheap easy way out rather than actually think.

One more thing, It was my mistake to think that an intelligent conversation can be had on the front page, So I will leave the front page to the racists, bigots and haters that make it all about them. when they have nothing intelligent left to say.

I agree, it's horribly sad. Our granddaughter has several friends who are gay or lesbian, heck she told me she thought she was bi-sexual at 13. I've known her best male friendis gay since Junior High, his parents are oblivious and still hopingthe two of them hook-up He cannot acknowledge or discuss being gay with his parents - breaks my heart. Now in college, tells his parents he's going to spend the weekend with our granddaughteras a coverto date.

When children don't meetparental expectations, the pain inflicted can last a lifetime.

When children don't meetparental expectations, the pain inflicted can last a lifetime That's for sure...sadly, it sometimes if even leads to the child's death by suicide.

Well the one that said they'd serve anyone but not cater to a wedding has been threatened with burning to the ground and on line death threats. They had to close for awhile. Fortunately we've seen that they have been given access to 350k in donations from civil minded people around America.

Actually they do have the right to dine in any public establishment they want. The only exception would be if they broke a law such as disturbing the peace or drunkenness in public, etc., where the police have to be called. I suggest that a restaurant owner call the police and tell them that they do not want a Black, Hispanic, Jewish, Gay couple to have dinner in his establishment because he has a religious objection to serving Blacks, Hispanics, Jewish or Gay couples and see what the police will say. Also the couple will sue and win everything the restaurant owner owns.

There are two parties involved and the black couple, for instance, has an equal right to dine in the restaurant, which balances out the owners equal right not to have them there. That way no one's rights are being superseded by the other's.

If they don't want Blacks, Hispanics, Jews, Gays etc to patronize their establishment then the only way then can do that is to form a private club and then forbid membership to Blacks, Hispanics, Jews, Gays, etc. Of course a member or several members of one or more of those groups will sue for membership and win. Membership and significant damages.

One should not be forced to enter a business transaction they don't want to enter.

If one should or should not be forced to is irrelevant. If they open an establishment that is open to the public then they must, by law, serve all people who want to patronize it. If you open a restaurant, bar, dry cleaners, hotel, etc., and it is open to the public, then you must serve all people who want to use your services. You don't get to decide that you don't want to service black people or Jews or Gays or whatever. The law requires that you accept them as customers.

If you do not like that, then don't open a public business. Become a Monopoly or Scrabble champion instead. I hear Legoland is always hiring. Start a porn website. Go to clown school. Their are many fascinating careers that don't force you to serve minorities. However opening a public business is not one of them.

Agreed then. A person certainly has the right to feel that he or she should be able to refuse service to any person he or she would like to.

I have a Niece who's Son "came out" at the age of 13. His Step Father ridiculed him and abused him.

My son came out at I believe 25. He had been living in a rural town in Michigan where "Fags" were still beaten regularity. When he moved in with my wife and myself (his mother had passed away the year before) in Los Angeles is when he told me he was gay. I didn't stop loving him one bit and I don't see how any father could. He's not just a gay man, first of all he is my son. Now he is happily married to a great guy who is more then welcome into our family. My wife and I have retired to the desert East of Palm Springs and I wish we had more time to see each other.

Your son is very lucky to have an understanding father like you. I'm so glad that he has found someone to love, (and loves him) and live the rest of his life with.

No, having religious convictions are not racist and I never said it was. However if you start any business, such as a store or dry cleaners or restaurant and refuse to serve someone because of your religious beliefs that you can not serve a black person or a Hispanic (and soon Gay) be it if they are against serving Blacks or Hispanics or Gays you are violating the law against discrimination because of your religious convictions, which would be legally racist in this country. If you decide because of your religious convictions, to refuse to serve them because they are black or Hispanic, that is racist in the country, regardless of your religious convictions. In that case your religious convictions do not trump anti-discrimination laws and they never should.

Many times religious convictions clash with anti-discrimination laws in public business and the anti-discrimination laws always win. And they always should.

You will be rightfully sued and you will lose your place of business. Your religious convictions will not be denied and you certainly can still have them. No one will attempt to take your freedom to believe religiously as you wish, even if it is racist in this country (and it is), as long as you don't use them to discriminate against others.