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‘This Is Not of God’: When Anti-Trump Evangelicals Confront Their Brethren

  

Category:  Religion & Ethics

Via:  evilgenius  •  6 years ago  •  64 comments

‘This Is Not of God’: When Anti-Trump Evangelicals Confront Their Brethren

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



Please read the article at the link.

Mr. Claiborne and his group are the other evangelicals. The Red Letter Christians, a reference to the words of Jesus printed in some Bibles in red type, are not the evangelicals invited for interviews on Fox News or MSNBC. They don’t align neatly with either political party. But they have fierce moral and theological objections to those evangelicals who have latched onto Mr. Trump and the Republican Party.


As an atheist and someone further to the left than self proclaimed Alt-Right, the Red Letter Christians are religious people I can respect. 


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evilone
Professor Guide
1  seeder  evilone    6 years ago

This is not an anti-Trump or anti-Trump supporter discussion. This is about one sect of Evangelicals differing from another.

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Quiet
1.1  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  evilone @1    6 years ago

There's really nothing surprising to me that there would be anti-Trump evangelicals. The surprising thing is that there would be pro-Trump evangelicals. I was raised in what most would likely consider a Christian extremist evangelical household and those decades I spent among them Trump was literally the epitome of what they warned about, the wolf in sheep's clothing, the anti-Christ, the disgusting thing, Babylon the great, the harlot drunk on the blood of the innocent. From his mob style business tactics, serial bankruptcies, stiffing his contractors, his monumental narcissism, to the near two dozen credible accusers of sexual assault and his own disgusting words about how he views and treats women, how he doesn't "even wait" for consent and just grabs women he finds attractive by the genitals. From top to bottom he represents the worst of mankind and everything evangelicals of the past have warned their parishioners of. So how the majority of evangelicals today twist their own faith in stunning feats of mental gymnastics in order to find a way to support such filth is the real surprise, not the ones who truly see him and denounce him as the charlatan he is.

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
1.1.1  seeder  evilone  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @1.1    6 years ago

I wasn't aware of this particular group, but I knew they were out there. They just don't usually get mouse clicks because they aren't as vocal nor as organized. My great grandmother used to take me to tent revival shows as they passed through town when I was knee high. 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
2  Perrie Halpern R.A.    6 years ago

I have to agree with this article. I can understand people supporting Trump. What I can't understand is evangelical's supporting Trump. There is nothing "Christ like" about the man. I have lived in NY/ NYC my whole life, and have seen this man be the embodiment of sin, yet evangelical support him. This does not compute. That some how this political figure got intertwined with faith, is beyond me. 

 
 
 
magnoliaave
Sophomore Quiet
2.1  magnoliaave  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2    6 years ago

Question, pls.  I thought you grew up in England?

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
2.1.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  magnoliaave @2.1    6 years ago

I grew up between here (NY) and London, England until the age of 10. My dad was career Navy and worked on carriers. When he was away, (usually up to 6 mo. of the year), we would stay with my mother's family. I am an American citizen.. so I am not sure of your point, Mags. 

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
2.3  seeder  evilone  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2    6 years ago

The "prosperity gospel" isn't a new thing. Someone always finds a shiny new package for it.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
3  Trout Giggles    6 years ago

So Christians barring other Christians from speaking.....

Thirty Years War, anyone?

 
 
 
magnoliaave
Sophomore Quiet
4  magnoliaave    6 years ago

I read opinions and news and, then, I give my opinion which is worth nothing to a lot of people.  I try not to ever judge, except two people on here.

This group doesn't "like" Trump.  OK!  But, another group does.  OK!

No one has the right to judge whether Pres. Trump believes in God or not.  Not anyone.

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
4.1  seeder  evilone  replied to  magnoliaave @4    6 years ago
No one has the right to judge whether Pres. Trump believes in God or not.  Not anyone.

They are only saying (in this particular instance) that the actions of Trump have never been Christ-like. They are only trying to appeal to those religious people that they care more about the Word than the politics.

 
 
 
magnoliaave
Sophomore Quiet
4.1.1  magnoliaave  replied to  evilone @4.1    6 years ago

I don't know what being Christ like is. 

 
 
 
evilone
Professor Guide
4.1.2  seeder  evilone  replied to  magnoliaave @4.1.1    6 years ago
I don't know what being Christ like is.

Finding the difference between selfless acts of love and compassion from hate speech, division and for personal profit schemes might be a good place to start.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
4.1.3  JBB  replied to  magnoliaave @4.1.1    6 years ago

According to Christ Himself that is easy. Just do unto others as you would have them do unto you, love your others as you love yourself and refrain from judging others as judgement is God's alone for all fall short and are thus unworthy of salvation except through the grace of God...

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
4.1.4  Trout Giggles  replied to  magnoliaave @4.1.1    6 years ago
I don't know what being Christ like is.

And you call yourself a Christian?

Wasn't Christ compassionate and loved his neighbors? Wouldn't that be a good place to start to be Christ like?

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
4.1.5  epistte  replied to  magnoliaave @4.1.1    6 years ago
I don't know what being Christ like is.

How can you claim to be a Christian and yet not know what being Christ-like is?  I thought that Christians were called to live a life like that of the person who they claimed to be their savior? 

In which gospel does Jesus act like Donald Trump? 

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
4.1.6  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  epistte @4.1.5    6 years ago

Probably the one that says do unto others before they do unto you?

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.1.7  Tessylo  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @4.1.6    6 years ago
Probably the one that says do unto others before they do unto you?

Wow that's sounds like a very vengeful and vindictive and mean and petty and spiteful way to live

Is that in Satan's bible?

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
4.1.8  Trout Giggles  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @4.1.6    6 years ago

Good one, Doc

 
 
 
Skrekk
Sophomore Participates
4.1.9  Skrekk  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @4.1.6    6 years ago
Probably the one that says do unto others before they do unto you?

Also the one about building a wall to keep the strangers out.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.1.10  Tessylo  replied to  Tessylo @4.1.7    6 years ago

'Wow that's sounds like a very vengeful and vindictive and mean and petty and spiteful way to live'

P.S. But that sounds just like Donald Rump though.  

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.1.11  Tessylo  replied to  magnoliaave @4.1.1    6 years ago
'I don't know what being Christ like is.'

          'Whatever.  Most of you wouldn't know what Christ like is if it bit you in the butt.'

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
4.1.12  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Tessylo @4.1.7    6 years ago

Seems like you missed the entire point. Not much on irony and sarcasm are you?

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
4.1.13  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Skrekk @4.1.9    6 years ago

Could be.

 
 
 
DRHunk
Freshman Silent
4.3  DRHunk  replied to  magnoliaave @4    6 years ago

Don't actions speak louder than words, especially if it is the interpretation of someone's belief in, and the following of, God/Jesus/Bible?

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
4.4  epistte  replied to  magnoliaave @4    6 years ago
No one has the right to judge whether Pres. Trump believes in God or not.

His own actions speak to his belief or lack thereof in god. That and the 2 Corinthians.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
4.5  sandy-2021492  replied to  magnoliaave @4    6 years ago
No one has the right to judge whether Pres. Trump believes in God or not.  Not anyone.

Sure we do.  "By their fruits shall ye know them."  Trump's fruit is rotten.  No sense in hiding from it.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
5  Ender    6 years ago

The night before Shane Claiborne came to town to preach at a Christian revival, he received  a letter  from the chief of police at Liberty University warning that if he set foot on the property, he would be arrested for trespassing and face up to 12 months in jail and a $2,500 fine.

And people complain about universities not allowing certain speakers. This college should not get a pass from their ire.

Lynchburg sits at the heart of pro-Trump evangelical Christianity. Liberty University’s commencement speaker last year was Mr. Trump, a personal friend of Mr. Falwell’s. Fox News hosts are frequent speakers at chapel services.

Sounds like campaigning from the pulpit.

Three days before the revival, Mr. Golden met for breakfast with a leader of a local evangelical church in the dim, empty back room of a downtown cafe, so as not to be seen together.

Sounds like what people had to do centuries ago.

Mr. Falwell never responded, though in addition to banning the Red Letter Christians from campus, he forbade the Liberty University student newspaper from covering the revival. When Erin Covey, the student assigned to the story, asked Mr. Falwell to comment on the revival, she received a text from him that said: “Let’s not run any articles about the event. That’s all these folks are here for — publicity. Best to ignore them.”

They are banning and silencing any dissent.

Mr. Claiborne still wanted to lead a group onto the Liberty campus and hold a prayer vigil — or at least leave a gift for Mr. Falwell, who had just opened a new $3.2 million  gun range on campus . Mr. Claiborne had ready a hand plow that he made from a melted-down handgun, a literal following of the Bible’s instruction to “beat swords into plowshares.”

Just wow. I have to give these red letter Christians their due. At least they are trying to follow the teachings when so many seem so far removed from what Christianity was supposed to be about.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
6  Bob Nelson    6 years ago
“Everyone’s afraid,” he said, pausing. “That’s strong language. Everyone’s very mindful of how they speak and how they deliver the truth. It’s hard to tell the truth in a context like Lynchburg.”

Christ's message isn't rocket science: "Love one another." No fine print. No exceptions. His parables are often about the "second class citizens" of his epoch: Samaritans, women, ... demonstrating that our obligation is to include everyone.

So racism is proscribed for all who would follow Christ. This is a problem for the many Evangelicals who despise "those people".

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
7  epistte    6 years ago

How many of the 10 commandments has Donald Trump not broken? 

“I am the Lord thy God, thou shalt not have any strange gods before Me.”

“Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.”

“Remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.”

“Honor thy father and mother.”

“Thou shalt not kill.”

“Thou shalt not commit adultery.”

“Thou shalt not steal.”

“Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.”

“Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s wife.”

“Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s goods.”

 
 
 
Skrekk
Sophomore Participates
7.1  Skrekk  replied to  epistte @7    6 years ago

"Remember to grab some pussy."

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
7.1.1  Tessylo  replied to  Skrekk @7.1    6 years ago
"Remember to grab some pussy."

Ah so that lost 3rd tablet . . . explains a lot.  

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
7.1.2  epistte  replied to  Skrekk @7.1    6 years ago
"Remember to grab some pussy."

Is that considered to be coveting' thy neighbors wife?

 
 
 
Skrekk
Sophomore Participates
7.1.3  Skrekk  replied to  epistte @7.1.2    6 years ago

It's only a "sin" if the pussy is owned by some other man.

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
7.1.4  epistte  replied to  Skrekk @7.1.3    6 years ago
It's only a "sin" if the pussy is owned by some other man.

Does the woman also have to be married for it to be adultery?

 
 
 
Skrekk
Sophomore Participates
7.1.5  Skrekk  replied to  epistte @7.1.4    6 years ago
Does the woman also have to be married for it to be adultery?

Of course.   It means that Trump didn't ask permission from the true owner of the pussy.

 
 
 
magnoliaave
Sophomore Quiet
8  magnoliaave    6 years ago

Whatever.  Most of you wouldn't know what Christ like is if it bit you in the butt. 

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
8.1  epistte  replied to  magnoliaave @8    6 years ago
Most of you wouldn't know what Christ like

The central teachings of Jesus were compassion, love and forgiveness of others.

And the King will answer them, 'Truly, I say to you , as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers , you did it to me.'

38  “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ [ a ] 39  But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40  And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well.

1 Judge not , that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge , ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."

The Sermon on the Mount is too long to quote,

 
 
 
magnoliaave
Sophomore Quiet
8.1.1  magnoliaave  replied to  epistte @8.1    6 years ago

Sooooooooooooooooooooooooo profound!

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
8.1.3  epistte  replied to  magnoliaave @8.1.1    6 years ago
Sooooooooooooooooooooooooo profound!

Do you have a better source for what your savior believed than the bible?

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
8.2  sandy-2021492  replied to  magnoliaave @8    6 years ago

Judging a bit, are we, mags?

 
 
 
magnoliaave
Sophomore Quiet
8.2.1  magnoliaave  replied to  sandy-2021492 @8.2    6 years ago

Guess, I am......sorry!

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
8.2.2  Tessylo  replied to  magnoliaave @8.2.1    6 years ago
'Guess, I am......sorry!'

Sure you are!

 
 
 
lennylynx
Sophomore Quiet
8.3  lennylynx  replied to  magnoliaave @8    6 years ago

I think I know what it is, and I find the average atheist to be much more Christ-like than your average Christian

 
 
 
Raven Wing
Professor Guide
8.3.1  Raven Wing  replied to  lennylynx @8.3    6 years ago

"I find the average atheist to be much more Christ-like than your average Christian"

Agreed!!

 
 
 
magnoliaave
Sophomore Quiet
8.3.2  magnoliaave  replied to  lennylynx @8.3    6 years ago

Cool, Leno.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
8.3.3  Trout Giggles  replied to  Raven Wing @8.3.1    6 years ago

I find the non-Christians on NT to be more Christ-like, that's for sure

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
8.4  Tessylo  replied to  magnoliaave @8    6 years ago
' I try not to ever judge, except two people on here.'
'Whatever.  Most of you wouldn't know what Christ like is if it bit you in the butt.'
'Sooooooooooooooooooooooooo profound!'
Do unto others as you would have done to you 

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
8.4.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  Tessylo @8.4    6 years ago

Me thinks those two she judges are you and me.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
8.4.2  Tessylo  replied to  Trout Giggles @8.4.1    6 years ago

'I try not to ever judge, except two people on here.'

Makes No Sense  

 
 
 
Skrekk
Sophomore Participates
8.4.3  Skrekk  replied to  Trout Giggles @8.4.1    6 years ago
Me thinks those two she judges are you and me.

I've got to assume that I'm one of them.    I'm usually on someone's enemies list.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
8.4.4  sandy-2021492  replied to  Skrekk @8.4.3    6 years ago

I figured I was one.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
8.5  devangelical  replied to  magnoliaave @8    6 years ago

Hasn't it been 6 months yet? 

 
 
 
magnoliaave
Sophomore Quiet
8.5.1  magnoliaave  replied to  devangelical @8.5    6 years ago

Thank you. 

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
8.5.2  epistte  replied to  devangelical @8.5    6 years ago
Hasn't it been 6 months yet?

I think that even I caught that reference.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Expert
8.5.3  sandy-2021492  replied to  devangelical @8.5    6 years ago

Come on, that ain't right.

 
 
 
magnoliaave
Sophomore Quiet
8.5.4  magnoliaave  replied to  magnoliaave @8.5.1    6 years ago

Ok, I am back!

No, not six months yet.  But, since you called me a liar for saying I am in hospice, maybe, you were right and they are playing with me.  Nevertheless, update.  I am out of wheelchair, walking and life is beautiful. Comment removed for CoC violation [ph]

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
8.5.5  JohnRussell  replied to  magnoliaave @8.5.4    6 years ago

Magnolia, people who are in hospice do not receive any medical treatment other than pain alleviation and if necessary an oxygen tank and possibly a wheelchair so the person can sit out in their yard (if they are up to it). They do not receive curative treatment for any medical issue. They do not see a doctor. 

Do you go to the doctor? If you had an emergency would they take you to the hospital? If so, you are not in hospice. 

 
 
 
magnoliaave
Sophomore Quiet
8.5.6  magnoliaave  replied to  JohnRussell @8.5.5    6 years ago

The nurse comes once a week.  If I needed it she would come twice a week.  Do not go to doctor.  Take my medications, am on oxygen, breathing machine,  If I have an emergency situation, I do not call 911.  I call them.  There will be no heroic measures to revive me.  I am incurable.  The six months thing is what consensus says, but no one can predict one's demise. 

My oldest son moved in with me..  He is wonderful.  When I got back home after 5 months, I couldn't do anything.  But, you should see the difference now. 

Mr. Russell, I do believe I know what hospice is.  Look it up.....there are two type of hospice, however, they share something in common....terminal illness.  Hospice takes over all other health insurances one may have.

BTW......I am in no pain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   Any other questions?

 
 
 
Pedro
Professor Participates
8.5.7  Pedro  replied to  magnoliaave @8.5.4    6 years ago

Although you definitely initiated this line of discussion a while back, it is obviously and intentionally hurtful to keep attacking your health at this point, especially considering how far removed it is from your original comment which sparked this, and despite my own thoughts on the matter. 

I also am very disappointed in the fact that this one comment I am responding to also happens to be the only comment in this particular thread that was flagged.

My instinct is to remove this entire thread of conversation, but I think you should be given the opportunity to be the final arbiter on this matter.

As of right now, regardless of how Mags weighs in, the attacks on Mags health will stop, and suspensions will begin to be handed out if this continues.

PRF

 
 
 
magnoliaave
Sophomore Quiet
8.5.8  magnoliaave  replied to  Pedro @8.5.7    6 years ago

Thank you. 

 
 

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