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An Atheist Proposed a $4,000 “Good Without God” Scholarship; The School Said No.

  

Category:  Religion & Ethics

Via:  hal-a-lujah  •  6 years ago  •  103 comments

An Atheist Proposed a $4,000 “Good Without God” Scholarship; The School Said No.

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



When I was a senior in high school, we had an evening near the end of the year when my classmates and I were honored for our accomplishments. District officials celebrated those who graduated with certain GPAs and were named the best students in various departments. They also awarded scholarships that we had applied for earlier in the year. Those scholarships were sponsored by local companies, families, and organizations within the district. They ranged from a few hundred dollars to several thousands of dollars.

Winters High School in California, just west of Sacramento, does something similar, and atheist Robert Nickelson wanted to be a part of it.

He didn’t just want to sponsor a scholarship. He wanted to sponsor the largest scholarship. So he told the school last December that he would be offering a $2,500 “Good Without God Scholarship” to the student who wrote the best essay about being non-religious or promoting a secular worldview. For example, they could write about the “benefits of keeping religion out of public policy.” As an added bonus, he said, the winning entry would be published in the Winters Express, a local newspaper.

To his shock, no one applied.

The money was just sitting there, waiting to be taken, and no students seemed to want it. It’s not like they were all conservative Christians, so Nickelson was puzzled. Was the amount too low? Maybe. So he went even bigger, promising $4,000 to the winner.

By April, he still heard nothing.

Then he found out why.

The school was refusing to publicize his scholarship. No students even knew it existed.

The Winters Express just published a piece describing what happened:

On March 22, he contacted the high school principal, Nicole Reyherme, who told him that the high school could not announce or advertise the scholarship because she was “concerned that the application has language that can be controversial and may violate the expectation of separation of church and state.”

Ironically, an essay contest in which students could advocate for church/state separation was being called a violation of church/state separation…

The actual concern appeared to be that, since students could also write about why they were secular humanists, the administrators feared that they’d be seen as advocating non-theism. But that shouldn’t have been a problem. As long as the door was open to everyone offering scholarships, including religious groups, there was no legal issue. And religious groups like the Knights of Columbus were allowed to promote scholarship opportunities through the school, Nickelson said. It wasn’t just him.

Furthermore, religious students were welcome to apply for Nickelson’s money, since they could make an argument for why religion and government shouldn’t be mixed, a view that plenty of them hold.

So Nickelson, who used to sit on the Winters School Board, went directly to Superintendent Todd Cutler to make his case. He heard a different excuse this time around.

According to Nickelson, Cutler was uncomfortable with the piece of the scholarship involving publication in the Express and after some discussion, invited Cutler to make changes to the application. However, after reviewing the suggested changes, Nickelson and his family didn’t approve of them.

Nickelson told me that having the winning essay published in the paper was non-negotiable. One of his main goals in offering the scholarship was to “make people more aware that there are non-Christians in the community,” and publishing the winning entry was central to that goal. He also joked that, “He who has the gold makes the rules.” If he was the one giving away $4,000, the district had no business telling him to eliminate part of the prize.

He threatened to take this matter up with the board of trustees, and eventually, Cutler relented. The school would finally advertise the scholarship. After months of receiving no essays at all, Nickelson received several.

One of them, from a student named Sarah Hagy, stood out. She wrote about the struggles of becoming non-religious in a religious family, and this was the opening line:

The day I told my father I didn’t want to go to church anymore, I may as well have turned into Satan himself.

Sarah also spoke about the stigma against mental health care she found in many churches:

Having a God that can take away depression and lack of motivation at the snap of his fingers sounds awesome, but there’s also Prozac and Zoloft that can do the job.

“It was an outstanding essay,” Nickelson told me. His family was proud to declare her the winner, and he added that her story was “worth every dime to me.”

A couple of weeks ago, Nickelson got on stage during the scholarship ceremony and announced Sarah as the winner. In his speech, he also made sure to explicitly thank Principal Reyherme and Superintendent Cutler for supporting the scholarship. (I’m sure they were thrilled.)

In another twist, though, the Winters Express hasn’t published the essay yet. (Nickelson was told it was just a matter of space and there was an “85% chance” it’ll appear in this week’s issue.) They made a promise to publish the winning essay several months ago, and Nickelson expects them to honor their commitment. If they don’t, however, he’s considering buying an ad with the winning essay.

Despite the pushback he received from administrators, Nickelson said he’s received no backlash from the public. It’s been positive support all around.

He emphasizes that the Good Without God Scholarship promotes the concept of non-discrimination, and that his ultimate motivation was that his family “had the funds to help somebody out.” As for those who recoil at the idea of promoting secular non-Christian values or ideals, Nickelson says, “If you think it’s in bad taste — there are a lot of things that are in bad taste.” Which seems to be another way of saying, “Just deal with it.”

All in all, says Nickelson, “It really shouldn’t have been a big deal at all.”

He plans to continue offering the scholarship in the future, though he’s not sure what the amount will be. And if anyone gives him trouble, he’s not worried. His daughter Keeley is a lawyer. She graduated from Winters High School.


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Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
1  seeder  Hal A. Lujah    6 years ago

Nasty, good-fer-nuthin atheists!

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
1.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @1    6 years ago

Yeah...we're always causing trouble

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
2  epistte    6 years ago

Good for him.

I'd like to hear the principal argument about how notifying students of the possibility of a secular scholarship would violate the separation of church and state?

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
2.1  seeder  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  epistte @2    6 years ago

The document had the words “church” and “state” on them, and they weren’t sufficiently separated from one another.

 
 
 
Skrekk
Sophomore Participates
2.2  Skrekk  replied to  epistte @2    6 years ago
I'd like to hear the principal argument about how notifying students of the possibility of a secular scholarship would violate the separation of church and state?

Ir's an an Establishment violation for a school to advocate or oppose religion, so this essay contest treads very close to the latter.    It would matter a lot on how the contest is worded.

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
2.2.1  epistte  replied to  Skrekk @2.2    6 years ago
Ir's an an Establishment violation for a school to advocate or oppose religion, so this essay contest treads very close to the latter.

The state isn't endorsing this belief or suggesting that students write this essay. They are only telling them that it exists and that they can write an essay to get the money. 

This could be done as simply as posting a message on the high school internal internet page under possible scholarships that are available.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
2.2.2  Bob Nelson  replied to  epistte @2.2.1    6 years ago

It isn't "the state" that's making this decision. It's one guy. The Superintendent.

IMHO, that's worse...

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
2.2.3  epistte  replied to  Bob Nelson @2.2.2    6 years ago
It isn't "the state" that's making this decision. It's one guy. The Superintendent.

If the superintendent is blocking this secular scholarship from being widely known and taken advantage by students then he is endorsing his religious views. That bias is a serious problem in public schools. 

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
2.2.4  Bob Nelson  replied to  epistte @2.2.3    6 years ago

Exactly.

It's an abuse of power... of the small-mind-small-deed variety that plagues the whole nation in so many, many ways...

 
 
 
SteevieGee
Professor Silent
2.2.5  SteevieGee  replied to  epistte @2.2.3    6 years ago

Any superintendent who denies a student access to a scholarship based on his religious views should be fired.

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
2.2.6  epistte  replied to  Bob Nelson @2.2.4    6 years ago
It's an abuse of power... of the small-mind-small-deed variety that plagues the whole nation in so many, many ways...

In his mind and among the rest of the school board they tell themselves that they are preventing impressionable students minds from being corrupted by Satan via atheists.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
2.2.7  Bob Nelson  replied to  epistte @2.2.6    6 years ago
In his mind...

I really, really do not care what is going on in his mind. I try very hard not to second guess people's motives. That way lies madness...

I only care what people do. In this case... abused his authority. I don't care why he did it, only that he did.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
2.2.8  seeder  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Bob Nelson @2.2.7    6 years ago

What irritates me are all those Christians who have made the claim that it’s not atheists who are out there volunteering, and donating, and being the philanthropists that make the world a better place.  The fact is that we do, much of the time even doing so under their auspices.  Here we have a case where an attempt is made to do so in an overt secular way, and some Christian is attempting to stop it from happening.  And then along comes mags below to further disparage atheists just for pointing it out.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
2.2.9  Bob Nelson  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @2.2.8    6 years ago

Agreed.

I very much doubt that he would have blocked a scholarship with a religious basis. Well... ... he might do the same with anything non-Christian...  confused

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
2.2.10  epistte  replied to  Bob Nelson @2.2.7    6 years ago
I really, really do not care what is going on in his mind. I try very hard not to second guess people's motives. That way lies madness...

I am just explaining how he rationalizes his behavior in his mind. I am related to people like this and I interact with this mindset on a daily basis. Their life is spent on an eternal struggle fighting Satan anywhere they claim that he exists.

These people are nuts!

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
2.2.11  Bob Nelson  replied to  epistte @2.2.10    6 years ago
These people are nuts!

Certainly.

All the more reason to not try to understand "why"...

I realized a long time ago that when I guessed at another person's motives, I soon began to act in relation to those motives. If I had guessed right, all was well. If I had guessed wrong... big mess!

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
2.2.12  epistte  replied to  Bob Nelson @2.2.11    6 years ago

I stay away from them as much as socially possible. I understand them so I can try to guess where they will go next and be prepared to limit the damage of their idiocy. There is no point in having any  sort of relationship with them if you aren't a member of their church. 

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
2.2.13  Bob Nelson  replied to  epistte @2.2.12    6 years ago

I have a cousin who lives nearby... Eye Roll

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
2.2.14  epistte  replied to  Bob Nelson @2.2.13    6 years ago

I have a neighbor, 2 cousins and a wackjob sister.

 
 
 
Skrekk
Sophomore Participates
2.2.15  Skrekk  replied to  epistte @2.2.14    6 years ago

I went to a family reunion a while back which included a branch we didn't know existed, and I learned that I'm closely related to 200 bible-babbling wack jobs.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
2.2.16  Bob Nelson  replied to  Skrekk @2.2.15    6 years ago
... 200 bible-babbling wack jobs.

May the good Lord protect you...     praying dude

 
 
 
mocowgirl
Professor Quiet
2.2.17  mocowgirl  replied to  Bob Nelson @2.2.11    6 years ago
All the more reason to not try to understand "why"..

The "why" revolves around being indoctrinated into any sect of any religion and then basing their entire existence on the words written by members of that ancient religion.

This becomes a problem when the religious minded try to force their religion on others.

If for some strange reason the Amish became the religious authority in the US and had enough political power to "cleanse" our nation of the sins of advanced education and modern conveniences  (which their version of Yahweh dislikes), would we be having discussions about "understanding why"?

The Amish believe that  James 1:27  "...and to keep oneself unspotted from the world" means to stay away from things the "world" does—like driving autos, having a TV, going to movies, wearing make-up, and the enjoying the conveniences of electricity and phones. They often use generators to create power to run their equipment and use horses, instead of tractors, to do farm work. The bishop (leader) of an Amish community (district) sets up the rules of conduct allowed for his district. Some bishops are more lenient than others. The Amish have church services in their own homes, taking turns hosting on Sundays, and do not have church buildings. They usually only go to a formal school until age 15.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
2.2.19  seeder  Hal A. Lujah  replied to    6 years ago

What is so offensive about "good without god"?  Is god the only reason you are ever good?

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
2.2.20  Gordy327  replied to    6 years ago
The problem is, is that the Atheist wants is called a "GOOD WITHOUT GOD SCHOLARSHIP".

So? how is that a problem exactly?

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
2.2.21  Gordy327  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @2.2.19    6 years ago
Is god the only reason you are ever good?

I've actually had some people tell me god is the only reason they are good or capable of being good. Those are the kind of people one needs to be wary of.

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
2.2.22  epistte  replied to    6 years ago
Nothing wrong with a secular scholarship and there are many.

Your beliefs are threatened by this scholarship.

Good without a God is the tagline of the American Humanists. 

  It is a logical statement that morality is not inherent in religious belief. He is trying to get people to think about their religious beliefs when they write the essay. It is also an acknowledgment that there are high school students who are not believers.  Nobody is being forced to apply for the scholarship and it is not an endorsement by the school of either atheism or Humanism. 

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
3  Bob Nelson    6 years ago

Faith that doesn't have enough confidence in itself to confront all doubts... is an embarrassment for its object.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
4  Bob Nelson    6 years ago

What other elements of Winters schools is the Superintendent manipulating according to his own personal standards?

In this case, it's atheism. But... what else?

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
4.1  epistte  replied to  Bob Nelson @4    6 years ago
In this case, it's atheism. But... what else?

I'd start by looking into what is being taugh in both biology and health classes because the teaching of evolution and fact-based sex education seem to be hot-button topics among religious conservatives.  American history and civics would be the next classes that I would investigate.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
4.1.1  Bob Nelson  replied to  epistte @4.1    6 years ago

It's exhausting....

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
4.1.2  epistte  replied to  Bob Nelson @4.1.1    6 years ago
It's exhausting....

Religious conservatives see that their grip on the American people is slipping away so they seek to teach their illogical religious beliefs in public school as a way of prolonging their power onto the next generation. 

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
4.1.3  Trout Giggles  replied to  epistte @4.1    6 years ago

I'd be checking their math, too

 
 
 
Skrekk
Sophomore Participates
4.1.4  Skrekk  replied to  Trout Giggles @4.1.3    6 years ago

Numerology is perhaps the one thing that Christian extremists are good at.    Harold Camping was quite skilled....but then each time after his predicted apocalypse didn't happen he'd admit to a slight miscalculation.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
4.1.5  Trout Giggles  replied to  Skrekk @4.1.4    6 years ago

But that's not math...that's religion wrapped in pseudoscience

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
4.2  seeder  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Bob Nelson @4    6 years ago

In this case, it's atheism. But... what else?

I get the feeling that it wasn’t so much about hyper-evangelical sentiments (they did relent after all), but more about trying to avoid a perceived uncomfortable situation with the community.  Of course the reality is that there was nothing uncomfortable about it at all, but public education officials are increasingly sensitive to all things PC.  At my wife’s elementary school, they aren’t even allowed to hang pictures of Santa Claus, for fear of offending those who don’t celebrate Christmas.  It’s gotten out of hand.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
4.2.1  Bob Nelson  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @4.2    6 years ago

I hope your version is true.

As for Santa... isn't he better off at home? At school there are kids who aren't Christian... assuming that Santa has anything to do with Jesus's birthday...

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
4.2.2  seeder  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Bob Nelson @4.2.1    6 years ago

If I were to relocate my family to India, I would have no desire, much less an expectation, that their school systems retool their secular traditions to accommodate my foreign sensibilities.

Santa Claus is arguably a secular figure.  Just because Christianity usurped a pagan holiday to instill their own, doesn’t mean they get to lay claim to every secular figure associated with Dec. 25.  As an atheist, I have celebrated Christmas every year of my life, though as the years roll on it has become a tiresome event for me.  With the advent of gift cards, the event has lost its secular romance.  Why trade gift cards (which seems to be the only thing people ask for anymore), when you can just spend that money on yourself and skip the whole awkward trading of money formality?

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
4.2.3  Bob Nelson  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @4.2.2    6 years ago

Jeez, Hal...

I thought I was cynical...   thinking

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
4.2.4  seeder  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Bob Nelson @4.2.3    6 years ago

I am admittedly cynical.  I went on a grumpy cat binge a few months ago, with my NT avatar and a prolonged series of grumpy cat memes.  This led to my wife nicknaming me cynicat.  

7043BD8958DB49EF9FD8D6BE95D4A937.jpeg

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
4.2.5  Bob Nelson  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @4.2.4    6 years ago

cat.jpg

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
4.2.6  epistte  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @4.2.4    6 years ago

I love the Grinch. I want to build a 6' tall version for my front yard and alternate it with a lighted FSM as a reply to my uptight conservative Christian neighborhood.

The Grinch song is my phone's ringtone in December. 

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
4.2.7  Trout Giggles  replied to  Bob Nelson @4.2.3    6 years ago

I don't like Christmas. If it weren't for having friends and family around to get drunk with and fatten them up with my good cooking, I just wouldn't make any effort at all.

I haven't decorated a tree in probably 3 years or so.....

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
4.2.8  Bob Nelson  replied to  Trout Giggles @4.2.7    6 years ago

Yes, it's a good moment for a family meal. No religious significance at all.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
4.2.9  Trout Giggles  replied to  Bob Nelson @4.2.8    6 years ago

Exactly!

Until the religious ones in the group insist on saying a prayer....in my house!

 
 
 
Freefaller
Professor Quiet
4.2.10  Freefaller  replied to  Trout Giggles @4.2.9    6 years ago
Until the religious ones in the group insist on saying a prayer....in my house!

Out to the backyard with em, they can come sit down when they're done.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
4.2.12  Bob Nelson  replied to  Trout Giggles @4.2.9    6 years ago
Until the religious ones in the group insist on saying a prayer....in my house!

We're too polite.

We should interrupt immediately, "Excuse me... but we don't say grace in this house, since we can't be sure that everyone is on the same page, where religion is concerned. If you wish to say your grace, please do it inaudibly; please don't try to impose it on the rest of us..."

But we are too polite. We allow them to be profoundly rude...  praying dude

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
4.2.13  Trout Giggles  replied to  Freefaller @4.2.10    6 years ago

laughing dude

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
4.2.14  Trout Giggles  replied to  Bob Nelson @4.2.12    6 years ago

Mr Giggles doesn't like to offend anybody even tho he knows how I feel

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
4.2.15  Bob Nelson  replied to  Trout Giggles @4.2.14    6 years ago

Does he actually answer to "Mr Giggles"?    Giggle

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
4.2.16  Trout Giggles  replied to  Bob Nelson @4.2.15    6 years ago

Giggle

No of course not. He doesn't know that's what I call him on here

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
4.2.17  Bob Nelson  replied to  Trout Giggles @4.2.16    6 years ago

          Giggle

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
5  Bob Nelson    6 years ago

Religious conservatives see that their grip on the American people is slipping away...

I wish that was the case. I see pretty much the opposite. The right is so confident of its authority already, that they feel enabled to act as this guy did.

They see everyone at the highest echelons of the nation doing whatever they like, ignoring the law when it hampers them...

 
 
 
mocowgirl
Professor Quiet
5.1  mocowgirl  replied to  Bob Nelson @5    6 years ago
I wish that was the case.

It is the case.  

According to the study, 68% Americans aged 65 and over said they had no doubt God existed compared to 45% of young adults, aged 18-30. 41% of people 70 and older said they attend church services at least once a month, compared to 18% of people 60 and below.

Professor Mark Chaves (Duke University), the study’s other author, said: “The US decline has been so gradual that until recently scientists haven’t had enough data to be sure the trend was real. The US has long been considered an exception to the modern claim that religion is declining, but if you look at the trajectory, and the generational dynamic that is producing the trajectory, we may not be an exception after all.”

And because fewer people attend church services, churches have been closing for decades because there isn't enough money to pay the utilities.

Perhaps, in order to drive more people back into church or to keep churches open or ?????, GW Bush enacted the Faith Based Initiative through Executive Order.  Obama continued the program.

President Bush punched a dangerous hole in the wall between church and state earlier this month by signing an executive order that eases the way for religious groups to receive federal funds to run social services programs. The president's unilateral order, which wrongly cut Congress out of the loop, lets faith-based organizations use tax dollars to win converts and gives them a green light to discriminate in employment. It should be struck down by the courts.

The Bush administration's faith-based initiative has long been high on the wish list of religious conservatives. It allows churches, synagogues, mosques and other religious entities to qualify for tax dollars to finance programs for the poor and emergency relief, and it lets them provide those services in an expressly, even coercively, religious setting. While the initiative in theory bars federal subsidies for religious activities themselves, it clearly permits praying, proselytizing, religious counseling and other sectarian activities to be part of a program receiving federal funds.

and more info...  Please note that I cannot find figures for yearly expenditures for this program.  If anyone else has the numbers, please share.

Bush's so-called  faith-based initiative  green-lighted taxpayer dollars to local churches and other religious organizations to help them expand their social services in local communities. It's an arrangement   President Obama  supports as well.

Faith-based organizations received more than $2.1 billion in federal social service grants in 2005, according to the most recent data published by the Government Accountability Office.

and more...

The stimulus bought Castleton United Methodist Church in Indianapolis a new heating and cooling system. In Laramie, Wyo., it bought the Church of St. Laurence O'Toole new windows for the Roman Catholic school it runs. And in Harrisburg, Pa., Christian Churches United of the Tri-County Area spent its $120,000 in stimulus funding on food and shelter for local homeless people.

"It kind of fell from the sky, and it was unbelievable that we had this much extra money," said Jackie Rucker, executive director of the church-sponsored nonprofit in Pennsylvania’s capital.

The story of the Obama administration's large-scale spending on faith-based groups has been largely untold, perhaps because it cuts so sharply across the moment's intensely partisan narrative. And in fact, when the stimulus was being debated in February 2009, conservatives attacked the bill as "anti-religious" in its spending guidelines. (See: Mixed W.H. signals on stimulus )

But an analysis by POLITICO found that at least $140 million in stimulus money has gone to faith-based groups, the result of an unpublicized White House decision to spend government money, where legal, supporting religiously inspired nonprofit groups. And that decision was just the beginning.

In an aggressive attempt at outreach, federal agencies, in conference calls and online seminars, instructed faith-based groups on how to apply for the grants, and federal officials sometimes stepped in when the state officials who distribute the money were reluctant to spend it on groups associated with churches and other religious establishments.

Currently, laws are being enacted to funnel taxpayer money to churches with fewer restrictions.  Where is the ACLU?

Less than four months after President Donald Trump suggested churches should be able to receive federal disaster relief funds, officials have changed federal policies to make it easier for religious institutions to qualify for such aid.

With lawsuits pending in Texas and Florida from churches and synagogues challenging the limits, the Federal Emergency Management Agency announced Tuesday that it is removing language in its rules that has often disqualified religious groups from aid available to other nonprofits.

"Private nonprofit houses of worship will not be singled out for disfavored treatment within the community centers subcategory of [Public Assistance] nonprofit applicants," FEMA Recovery Directorate Assistant Administrator Alex Amparo wrote in   a new manual   released Tuesday.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
5.1.1  Bob Nelson  replied to  mocowgirl @5.1    6 years ago

Churches stump for politicians... and it ain't for free!

 
 
 
Skrekk
Sophomore Participates
5.2  Skrekk  replied to  Bob Nelson @5    6 years ago
I wish that was the case. I see pretty much the opposite. The right is so confident of its authority already, that they feel enabled to act as this guy did.

They're just going through a reactionary phase right now, but progress is the reason for that.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
5.2.1  Bob Nelson  replied to  Skrekk @5.2    6 years ago
progress is the reason for that

Progress?

Cops shooting whomever they please?

Citizens United?

Donald Trump?

 
 
 
Skrekk
Sophomore Participates
5.2.2  Skrekk  replied to  Bob Nelson @5.2.1    6 years ago

I think you misunderstood my comment.   What do you think Trump voters are reacting against?

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
5.2.3  Bob Nelson  replied to  Skrekk @5.2.2    6 years ago
What do you think Trump voters are reacting against?

"Those people..."

 
 
 
magnoliaave
Sophomore Quiet
6  magnoliaave    6 years ago

I don't know how so many of you can live a good life in your cynical world.   Why do you spend so much time hating on religion when it could be spent enjoying those things and people who mean so much to us?  Choose that part of the world you love and leave the rest alone. 

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
6.1  seeder  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  magnoliaave @6    6 years ago

Conversely, why do you spend so much time hating on atheists?

 
 
 
magnoliaave
Sophomore Quiet
6.1.1  magnoliaave  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @6.1    6 years ago

I don't.  What makes you think so?  I am wondering why you all spend so much time devoted to hating the religious?

 
 
 
lennylynx
Sophomore Quiet
6.1.2  lennylynx  replied to  magnoliaave @6.1.1    6 years ago

We love the religious but hate the religion Mango!  Happy

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
6.1.3  Trout Giggles  replied to  magnoliaave @6.1.1    6 years ago

I see you avoided the question....again....

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
6.2  devangelical  replied to  magnoliaave @6    6 years ago

Speaking for myself, if I wanted to hear thumper bullshit, I'd go to church. Hopefully someday they will realize that negative push back usually happens when their nonsensical bible babble takes place off the religious reservation.

 
 
 
Phoenyx13
Sophomore Silent
6.3  Phoenyx13  replied to  magnoliaave @6    6 years ago
I don't know how so many of you can live a good life in your cynical world.

what an odd comment considering the article - it's almost as if you are stating "Atheists should have just sit down, shut up and dealt with it instead of fighting to be heard etc" - is this correct ? (honest question, nothing more)

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
6.3.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  Phoenyx13 @6.3    6 years ago

That;s what it sounded like to me....

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
6.4  epistte  replied to  magnoliaave @6    6 years ago
Choose that part of the world you love and leave the rest alone.

If religious conservatives would stop trying to legislate their fairy tales then my life would be much better.   I refuse to obey it so keep the separation of church and state absolute and impenetrable.  I refuse to pay for it and its negative effects on society so don't try to teach it and stop giving relgious institutions tax exemptions. Your religious beliefs do not determine the secular rights of other people. 

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
6.4.1  Gordy327  replied to  epistte @6.4    6 years ago
so keep the separation of church and state absolute and impenetrable.

As it should be!

 
 
 
magnoliaave
Sophomore Quiet
7  magnoliaave    6 years ago

Do whatever makes your world churn.  You keep on and on and no one listens,,,,,,you talk to yourselves and makes you feel better.  Hello wall!

 
 
 
GregTx
PhD Guide
7.1  GregTx  replied to  magnoliaave @7    6 years ago

 
 
 
MonsterMash
Sophomore Quiet
7.2  MonsterMash  replied to  magnoliaave @7    6 years ago

You're a dreaded Christian you MUST be silenced. To the lions you go, Dilly Dilly

 
 
 
lennylynx
Sophomore Quiet
7.2.1  lennylynx  replied to  MonsterMash @7.2    6 years ago

Yes, yes, what a great idea, MM, let's start feeding Christians to lions again!!  We can throw it in at halftime during football games!

 
 
 
GregTx
PhD Guide
7.2.2  GregTx  replied to  lennylynx @7.2.1    6 years ago

Absolutely and if you throw in a few beheadings by Islamist then you probably could have the highest rated Superbowl ever.

 
 
 
Galen Marvin Ross
Sophomore Participates
7.2.3  Galen Marvin Ross  replied to  GregTx @7.2.2    6 years ago

Nah, beheadings are so last year, let's do a little Mayan ritual, remove the hearts from sacrificial virgins while they're still kicking.

 
 
 
Skrekk
Sophomore Participates
7.2.4  Skrekk  replied to  MonsterMash @7.2    6 years ago
You're a dreaded Christian you MUST be silenced. To the lions you go, Dilly Dilly

What would Christianity be without its persecution complex?

Comment removed TOS [ph]

 
 
 
GregTx
PhD Guide
7.2.5  GregTx  replied to  Galen Marvin Ross @7.2.3    6 years ago

I think you're right, that sounds more exciting as well as.being more diverse.

 
 
 
lennylynx
Sophomore Quiet
7.2.6  lennylynx  replied to  GregTx @7.2.2    6 years ago

Equal opportunity for other religions too, I like it Gregger! thumbs up

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
7.2.7  epistte  replied to  MonsterMash @7.2    6 years ago
You're a dreaded Christian you MUST be silenced. To the lions you go, Dilly Dilly

Nobody is infringing on your free speech rights, so stop with the Christian persecution complex. 

 
 
 
mocowgirl
Professor Quiet
7.2.8  mocowgirl  replied to  MonsterMash @7.2    6 years ago
To the lions you go, Dilly Dilly

Christians were NOT fed to lions.

The Reality:

There are   zero authentic accounts   of Christian martyrdom in the Colosseum until over a century after Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire. In fact, not a single legitimate record exists of the Romans executing any Christians in the Colosseum.   Zip . Zilch.   Nada .

But how do we know not one lion picked his teeth with the bones of a faithful believer in the Colosseum? Because back when Emperor Nero was busily persecuting early Christians as   arsonists , the Colosseum   hadn't even been built yet . And by the time construction was completed decades later, Imperial Rome had reverted back to its standard policy of "Jesus, Yahweh, Zeus -- whatever, just pay your taxes, K?"

  Continue Reading Below

But there's an entire tradition of martyrs, saints, and apostles who were eaten by lions, burned at the stake, or murdered to appease the crowds of the Colosseum! So where did all those pleasant bedtime stories come from? Brace yourself for a touch of deja vu, because the short answer is: early Christian writers.

In the second century A.D., a whole new genre of fiction cropped up. The " Martyr Acts " were stories about the church's beginnings, when heroic men and women professed their faith in spite of terrible torture and suffering. This "sacred pornography of cruelty" was hugely popular -- if you were a literate Christian living in Imperial Rome, the Martyr Acts were your   Harry Potter . With symbolism even less subtle than Dan Brown's novels, the Martyr Acts told stories of good and pure Christians being trampled to death or decapitated by violent Roman officials. The Martyr Acts satisfied the desire of early Christians to: 1) read faith-affirming literature filled with heroes exemplifying pacifism, love, and forgiveness and 2) read faith-affirming literature overflowing with the violence, death, and destruction that made a story readable to Romans.

Instead of blaming the Christian writers for creating a millennium's worth of misconceptions, though, we should really be thanking those guys for helping to preserve a historic landmark. That's because, starting in the 18th century, various popes used this spurious history to declare the Colosseum a site sanctified with the blood of martyrs in order to   stave off its destruction .

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
7.2.9  Bob Nelson  replied to  GregTx @7.2.2    6 years ago
Absolutely and if you throw in a few beheadings by Islamist then you probably could have the highest rated Superbowl ever.

Indeed!

Lethal injections just do not have the same charm...

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
7.2.10  Gordy327  replied to  Galen Marvin Ross @7.2.3    6 years ago
Nah, beheadings are so last year, let's do a little Mayan ritual, remove the hearts from sacrificial virgins while they're still kicking.

Getting a little retro, aren't we? LOL

 
 
 
lennylynx
Sophomore Quiet
7.2.11  lennylynx  replied to  mocowgirl @7.2.8    6 years ago

You mean...Christians were NOT fed to lions??!??!  Sad

I haven't felt this way since I found out there was no Santa Claus!

 
 
 
MonsterMash
Sophomore Quiet
7.2.12  MonsterMash  replied to  epistte @7.2.7    6 years ago
Nobody is infringing on your free speech rights, so stop with the Christian persecution complex.

My post was sarcasm some people weren't bright enough to recognize it.

 
 
 
GregTx
PhD Guide
7.2.13  GregTx  replied to  MonsterMash @7.2.12    6 years ago

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
7.2.14  Bob Nelson  replied to  GregTx @7.2.13    6 years ago

Sympathy has always been a bit "off" for me. I remember hearing it on the radio for the first time, not having heard the announcer's intro. My immediate reaction - within the first few bars - was, "Oh, cool!! The Stones have a new single!" They were that identifiable, that much better than anyone else. Still are, IMHO...

The lyrics are stilted - the Stones' Politically Correct contribution to the moment. But the music is... Stones!

The Motörhead cover is pretty good... but I am an unequivocal Stones fan.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
7.2.15  Trout Giggles  replied to  MonsterMash @7.2.12    6 years ago

Methinks you need to go to dictionary.com and look up the meaning of sarcasm....because you totally missed it. Your comment came off as whiny and persecuted

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
7.3  seeder  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  magnoliaave @7    6 years ago

Do whatever makes your world churn.  You keep on and on and no one listens,,,,,,you talk to yourselves and makes you feel better.  Hello wall!

What an odd statement to make to nobody in general.  Practicing what you preach?

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
7.3.1  devangelical  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @7.3    6 years ago

" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener"> !!!!!!!!!!

 
 
 
Galen Marvin Ross
Sophomore Participates
7.3.2  Galen Marvin Ross  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @7.3    6 years ago

Or, Mags is referencing this,

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
7.3.3  Trout Giggles  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @7.3    6 years ago

not exactly.....

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
7.4  Trout Giggles  replied to  magnoliaave @7    6 years ago

Why do you bother commenting on these seeds if it just makes you unhappy? Shouldn't you stick to those Feel Good stories one of yinz is always going on about?

 
 
 
sixpick
Professor Quiet
8  sixpick    6 years ago

Like I said, it's the 'Religion of Hate'.  

http://i1.wp.com/www.bookwormroom.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Stupid-liberals-Religion-atheists-deny-and-hate-God.jpg?resize=600%2C480

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Guide
8.1  epistte  replied to  sixpick @8    6 years ago

Your religious strawman is understood.

You cannot hate what does exist. Atheists despise ignorance, usually performed in the name of religious belief. 

This school administration was blocking the students access to a humanist scholarship, because of his own religious belief.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
8.2  Gordy327  replied to  sixpick @8    6 years ago

Please explain: how can atheists hate something that doesn't exist?

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
8.2.1  seeder  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Gordy327 @8.2    6 years ago

And more importantly, wouldn't challenging an omnipotent entity that you believe to be real, be like suicide by cop?  Why aren't atheists out there threatening police with airsoft guns?

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
8.2.2  Gordy327  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @8.2.1    6 years ago
And more importantly, wouldn't challenging an omnipotent entity that you believe to be real, be like suicide by cop?

That's an interesting way of putting it.

 
 
 
Phoenyx13
Sophomore Silent
8.3  Phoenyx13  replied to  sixpick @8    6 years ago

that meme is a direct contradiction of itself - if it doesn't exist, then how can anyone hate it ?

it's akin to stating that unicorns don't exist - yet i hate them anyway, same thing with flying green elephants.

It's amazing the mental gymnastics many of the religious will indulge in just find a negative in "the other side" and claim they are "hating".

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
8.3.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  Phoenyx13 @8.3    6 years ago

It's the whole "I'm a Christian and the atheists are persecuting me again!"

crying

 
 
 
Skrekk
Sophomore Participates
8.3.2  Skrekk  replied to  Phoenyx13 @8.3    6 years ago

My only problem with the invisible pink unicorns in the room is that they don't clean up their poop and you can't see it when you step in it.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
8.3.3  Trout Giggles  replied to  Skrekk @8.3.2    6 years ago

But it smells like bubblegum!

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
8.3.5  Trout Giggles  replied to  Release The Kraken @8.3.4    6 years ago

Unicorn poop??

 
 

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