Creationism vs. Flat Earth: Which belief is more irrational?

  

Category:  Religion & Ethics

By:  gordy327  •  2 years ago  •  129 comments

Creationism vs. Flat Earth: Which belief is more irrational?

Creationism and flat Earth beliefs are both irrational beliefs, usually based on nothing more than dogma, willful ignorance, or emotional dependency. Both beliefs fly in the face of scientific knowledge and understanding, and require a suspension of rational and critical thinking, not to mention quite a cognitive dissonance. As absurd as they are, which is the more irrational belief? Let's compare them in three categories and determine a "winner."

Round 1: core tenets.

Creationism is basically the belief that God created everything as is; the universe, Earth, and humans (and other species) as we are. It generally ignores sound scientific principles like evolution and adheres to an often literal interpretation of the bible. Typically, Young Earth Creationists (YEC) believe the Earth is roughly less than 10,000 years old while Old Earth Creationists (OEC) allow for an Earth to be in the millions or even billions of years old (God still created everything in OEC, but he just let things run on automatic for awhile). Creationism has been historically, and continues to be, a popular belief.

The Flat Earth belief posits that the Earth itself is not rounded like a sphere, but is actually flat (although it can also be a flat disk to give the appearance of roundness). Flat earth adherents reject any claims of a spherical Earth and shrug off any proof to the contrary as false, misleading, and even as conspiracies meant to fool people. They may even refer to the bible to reason that the earth is flat. However, while followers of either belief might strongly adhere to their belief, there is a segment of creationists (the OEC) who allow for some injection of established scientific principles with regard to the age of the earth or evolution (although God is still the root cause of everything). Therefore, Flat Earth narrowly edges out over creationism. Winner Round 1: Flat Earth.

Round 2: Adherents/popularity

While the idea of a flat earth dates back many centuries, the ancient Greeks (among other societies) developed the concept of a spherical earth. Believers of a flat earth would continue until even modern times. Today, there is even a Flat Earth Society. However, until modern times with social media, the idea of a flat earth never gained too much traction. Sure there may have been surges in the popularity or belief of a flat earth, but it always seemed more of an afterthought. Social media has been a tool for flat earthers to expose themselves and try to convince others of their views or make the idea of a flat earth more mainstream, especially among millennials. But they always seem more willing to "hide in the shadows" as it were. The current iteration of the Flat Earth Society has approximately 500 members, although there are likely more people who are flat earthers. 

Creationism, on the other hand, has likely far more numbers of adherents. A gallup poll several years ago indicated that 4 in 10 Americans (not counting other countries) subscribe to a creationist belief. That's roughly 125 million Americans. That's also a very sad commentary on our society too. Creationists win this round by sheer numbers alone. Winner round 2: Creationists.

 Round 3: Evidence/proof

I use the terms "evidence" and "proof" very loosely in this context, as there is no objective, valid evidence/proof of either creationism or a flat earth. But both sides will certainly try to propose their idea of proof, which is often based on subjective reasoning, personal beliefs (or the regurgitation of another's beliefs or teachings), or opinions. Both sides also show a profound lack of understanding of actual science when showing their proof. Creationists will often cite "proof" such as the lack of transitional fossils, the limited time available which negates evolution, or just simply referring to the bible as the be all, end all authority on the matter (and reject anything else outright). In other words, "God did it, the bible says so, I believe it. 'Nuff said!"

Flat earthers might claim the Antarctic is actually an ice wall which prevents anyone from "falling over the edge of the world. Gravity is an illusion and the concept of a spherical earth is a conspiracy by scientific organizations (such as NASA). Their "proof" is often cryptic or just a great exercise in mental gymnastics. Flat earthers might also use scripture as "proof." But we do have proof of a spherical earth: images/videos from space, horizon curvature, satellite positioning, ect.. So the idea of a flat earth is discredited outright. Creationism too for that matter. However, what puts flat earthers ahead on this one is their often humorous or face-palm inducing attempts to rationalize their position. Therefore, Winner round 3: Flat Earth.

By a score of 2-1, the winner (or loser depending on your perspective) is Flat Earth.


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Gordy327
1  author  Gordy327    2 years ago

Let's face it, both creationism and flat earth are equally absurd. But there is something just slightly more groan-inducing about flat earth beliefs. What are your thoughts? Are there any other comparisons which can be made? Which side do you think should win?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
1.1  JohnRussell  replied to  Gordy327 @1    2 years ago
But there is something just slightly more groan-inducing about flat earth beliefs.

I would say there is something A LOT more groan-inducing about flat earth beliefs.

 
 
 
Gordy327
1.1.1  author  Gordy327  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1    2 years ago
I would say there is something A LOT more groan-inducing about flat earth beliefs.

I don't know. Whenever someone from either side tries to explain or make assumptions based on either belief, I do a groan (sometimes with a face palm too). Lol

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
1.1.2  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1    2 years ago
more groan-inducing about flat earth beliefs.

I feel just about the same groan when faced with people who believe the earth is less than 10,000 years old.

Much like ancient measurement tools had to estimate the distance between cities, the measurement tools for the age of the earth we have today often can only get within a few thousand years. To a young earth creationist this presents a loophole, to anyone with any sense it's easily understood. Much like in ancient history when estimating the distance between Rome and Paris, the estimate was 1,100 kilometers. With a young earth creationist it is like claiming that because the estimate was 1,100 kilometers but wasn't exact, then maybe Paris was only 100 meters away from Rome. The earth is 4.543 billion years old +/- 50 million years, but young earthers claim because it isn't exact, maybe it's only 10,000 years old. That to me is as crazy as a flat earther.

 
 
 
epistte
1.2  epistte  replied to  Gordy327 @1    2 years ago
Let's face it, both creationism and flat earth are equally absurd. But there is something just slightly more groan-inducing about flat earth beliefs. What are your thoughts? Are there any other comparisons which can be made? Which side do you think should win?

$20.00 says that the majority of Flat-Earthers are bored reddit trolls just looking for laughs.  People can't be that stupid in 2018.

 
 
 
Skrekk
1.2.1  Skrekk  replied to  epistte @1.2    2 years ago

I'd say you and Gordy aren't giving sufficient deference to sincerely held superstitions!   After all no matter how high you go the horizon is always at eye level.   That alone should debunk the round earth theory (and note that it's just a theory anyway).    The earth is flat; any fool can see that.

 
 
 
Gordy327
1.2.2  author  Gordy327  replied to  Skrekk @1.2.1    2 years ago
After all no matter how high you go the horizon is always at eye level. That alone should debunk the round earth theory (and note that it's just a theory anyway). The earth is flat; any fool can see that.

Of course [slaps forehead]. It's all so obvious now. Why did I not see that sooner? laughing dude

 
 
 
Gordy327
1.2.3  author  Gordy327  replied to  epistte @1.2    2 years ago
People can't be that stupid in 2018.

Wanna bet? you still have people who believe in creationism in 2018. Flat earth is not so much a stretch.

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
1.2.4  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  epistte @1.2    2 years ago
People can't be that stupid in 2018.

Half of Trump voters still believe Obama was born in Kenya despite all the evidence to the contrary. 60% of them believe there were millions of illegal immigrants who voted for Hillary in the last election despite there being no proof. 80% of them refuse to accept that Russia was behind the hacked emails and release to wikileaks despite all the evidence proving they were. 31% of Trump supporters believe vaccines cause autism. 46% of Trump supporters believed Hillary was running a satanic child sex ring out of a Pizza Parlor. 37% of them believe that the number of uninsured has risen in the last 5 years despite the facts.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/rampage/wp/2016/12/28/americans-especially-but-not-exclusively-trump-voters-believe-crazy-wrong-things/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8092e1c176fd

Heck, 30% of Americans couldn't recall the year 9/11 occurred. What happened to hashtag "neverforget"? 29% of Americans couldn't find the Pacific Ocean on a map. Is it really any wonder that a majority of Republicans don't believe in global warming, believe Obama raised their taxes during his two terms (he lowered taxes for 95% of Americans), believe abstinence only education works and believe Saddam Hussein was involved in the 9/11 attack?

People are still plenty stupid in 2018 and I expect most of them, especially Trump supporters, will remain that way for decades to come since they prefer to ridicule higher education, facts and evidence than to actually try to learn something new.

 
 
 
epistte
1.2.5  epistte  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @1.2.4    2 years ago
Heck, 30% of Americans couldn't recall the year 9/11 occurred. What happened to hashtag "neverforget"? 29% of Americans couldn't find the Pacific Ocean on a map.

This is frightening indictment of the US school system. Holy sheepdip!

 
 
 
Gordy327
1.2.6  author  Gordy327  replied to  epistte @1.2.5    2 years ago
This is frightening indictment of the US school system. Holy sheepdip!

Couple that with religious indoctrination and/or irrationality, as we see with the numbers who accept creationism as valid, and you have the makings of a dumbed down population.

 
 
 
Raven Wing
1.2.7  Raven Wing  replied to  epistte @1.2    2 years ago
People can't be that stupid in 2018.

thinking  Thinking 2  who me?

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
1.3  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Gordy327 @1    4 months ago

I've said it before and I'll say it again - Here is a map of the Earth and it sure as hell looks flat to me....

newhebrides1-gif.2107

 
 
 
TᵢG
1.3.1  TᵢG  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1.3    4 months ago

What kind of strange fantasy-land is this map from?

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
1.3.2  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  TᵢG @1.3.1    4 months ago

It's as much of a fantasy as the belief that the world isn't flat.  Does it look spherical to you?  See, that's PROOF that the world is flat. 

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
2  Hal A. Lujah    2 years ago

Flat earthers might claim the Antarctic is actually an ice wall which prevents anyone from "falling over the edge of the world.

They should really consider organizing an expedition to prove this.  All of them.

 
 
 
Gordy327
2.1  author  Gordy327  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @2    2 years ago
They should really consider organizing an expedition to prove this.

According to them, the ice wall is proof. See, no effort (or thought) required.

 
 
 
Phoenyx13
2.1.1  Phoenyx13  replied to  Gordy327 @2.1    2 years ago
See, no effort (or thought) required.

that seems to be the core of both beliefs in the article, in my opinion

 
 
 
Gordy327
2.1.2  author  Gordy327  replied to  Phoenyx13 @2.1.1    2 years ago

I'd say your opinion is spot on.

 
 
 
Skrekk
2.1.3  Skrekk  replied to  Gordy327 @2.1    2 years ago

Here's some detail on the Antarctic ice wall, and note that no one to date has returned from What Lies Beyond:

File:Orlando-Ferguson-flat-earth-map edit.jpghttps://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/13/Orlando-Ferguson-flat-earth-map_edit.jpg/1199px-Orlando-Ferguson-flat-earth-map_edit.jpg 1.5x, https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/13/Orlando-Ferguson-flat-earth-map_edit.jpg/1599px-Orlando-Ferguson-flat-earth-map_edit.jpg 2x" data-file-width="3142" data-file-height="2162" height="550" width="800">

 
 
 
dave-2693993
2.1.4  dave-2693993  replied to  Skrekk @2.1.3    2 years ago

I am sure the devils at NASA make anyone crossing the ice wall vanish.

 
 
 
Gordy327
2.1.5  author  Gordy327  replied to  dave-2693993 @2.1.4    2 years ago
I am sure the devils at NASA make anyone crossing the ice wall vanish.

I've actually heard someone say that. Or that attempts to fly over the wall result in getting shot down.

 
 
 
Freefaller
2.1.6  Freefaller  replied to  Skrekk @2.1.3    2 years ago

So the earth isn't flat per se?  But is actually more shaped like a bunt cake mold....interesting.

 
 
 
Skrekk
2.1.7  Skrekk  replied to  Freefaller @2.1.6    2 years ago
But is actually more shaped like a bunt cake mold....interesting.

It helps explain what happens when the wind blows from the north......it goes all the way to the Antarctic ice wall where it gets sucked inside the edge of the earth, then pumped back to the center of the disc (what we call the north pole).

 
 
 
TᵢG
3  TᵢG    2 years ago

Flat Earth beliefs contradict one of the most fundamental, observable aspects of nature.   The level of mental confusion required for someone to actually believe the Earth flat seems impossible to achieve for a normal functioning human brain.

Creationists, on the other hand, simply believe that the universe was created by a sentient force.   At that level of abstraction, the belief is a possibility - not precluded by modern knowledge.   Creationists whose beliefs are based on the Bible, however, do run up against contradictions that require a lot of word-play, equivocation and compartmentalization.

Even so, I think the flat Earthers win hands down.

 
 
 
Skrekk
3.1  Skrekk  replied to  TᵢG @3    2 years ago

It's reasonable to ask why "spherical earth" apologists (like astronauts) would lie about it but there are many reasons :

  • To Maintain Legitimacy: During the Cold War we faked the moon landing. Shortly after they realized the reason they could not reach the moon was due to the flatness of the Earth. They were stuck in a lie, and had to continue it or lose legitimacy of our governments. Even today we would still hold onto this lie due to role Science plays in our ruling government.
  • To hide the truth of the Bible.
  • To Gain Power and Money: By siphoning off the space budgets and denying the world the resources of the Antarctic they gain a considerable amount of power and wealth.
 
 
 
Raven Wing
3.2  Raven Wing  replied to  TᵢG @3    2 years ago
The level of mental confusion required for someone to actually believe the Earth flat seems impossible to achieve for a normal functioning human brain.

I think the Flat Earthers are just flat out wrong. The only thing that is 'flat' is that which takes up space between their ears.

 
 
 
TᵢG
3.2.1  TᵢG  replied to  Raven Wing @3.2    2 years ago

I cannot even imagine what would cause someone to be convinced in 2018 that the Earth is flat.   This goes far beyond conventional belief because what they believe is demonstrably, worldwide wrong.   

 
 
 
Raven Wing
3.2.2  Raven Wing  replied to  TᵢG @3.2.1    2 years ago

Just like with many other things in this world, and it really is noting new, there are some people who will believe anything they are told to believe. The Jim Jones cult comes to mind. There are many weak minded and wear willed people who will believe whatever they are brain washed to believe. Fear also plays a big part in their willingness to believe what they are told, no matter how inane and totally unrealistic it may be. So yes, there are people who are willing to be led by the nose and loyally follow along with what they are told to believe.

Actually, we see a bit of that right here on NT.

 
 
 
Gordy327
3.2.3  author  Gordy327  replied to  TᵢG @3.2.1    2 years ago
This goes far beyond conventional belief because what they believe is demonstrably, worldwide wrong.

Which is why they edge out over creationists in irrationality.

 
 
 
TᵢG
3.2.4  TᵢG  replied to  Gordy327 @3.2.3    2 years ago

A more interesting comparison might be between Young Earth Creationists and Flat Earthers.   Unlike general creationists (those who simply believe in a creator god - many of which accept evolution as fact) the YECs believe the Earth is less than 10,000 years old.   To hold that belief they are of course denying science left and right (especially all dating methods) and backing themselves into truly absurd corners of logic requiring they make claims such as dinosaurs coexisting with human beings.

 
 
 
Gordy327
3.2.5  author  Gordy327  replied to  TᵢG @3.2.4    2 years ago
A more interesting comparison might be between Young Earth Creationists and Flat Earthers.

I included them as part of the general creationist camp. But I see your point.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
3.3  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  TᵢG @3    4 months ago

After listening to some Flat Earthers and Creationists over the years, I started to like the movie "Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy" even more. That planet creating factory at the end made about as much sense as Flat Earth and Creationist views!

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
4  sandy-2021492    2 years ago

Both are irrational, but flat Earthers have to work awfully hard to ignore that there are living human beings who were able to directly view the Earth as a sphere, and record their observations for the rest of us to observe.  Never mind the fact that we can directly observe that there is an actual horizon beyond which we are unable to see, even with a good telescope, simply because our view is occluded by the curvature of the Earth.

Flat Earthers are more irrational.

 
 
 
Freefaller
5  Freefaller    2 years ago

Hands down Flat Earthers.  While there are mental gymnastics required for both beliefs, the ones required for a belief in a flat earth are Olympic calibre.

 
 
 
Skrekk
5.1  Skrekk  replied to  Freefaller @5    2 years ago

If one assumes a spherical earth and posits that the equatorial speed of the earth is about 1000 miles per hour, this is faster than the speed of sound so someone standing east of you would never be able to hear you.

QED, the earth is flat.    Any idiot can plainly see and hear that.

 
 
 
dave-2693993
5.1.1  dave-2693993  replied to  Skrekk @5.1    2 years ago

That is hilarious.

We won't consider the relative velocity of the earths surface and the atmosphere.

 
 
 
Skrekk
5.1.2  Skrekk  replied to  dave-2693993 @5.1.1    2 years ago

Fortunately the ice wall of Antarctica holds in both the oceans and the atmosphere, otherwise they'd leak out over the edge and we'd be really screwed.

 
 
 
dave-2693993
5.1.3  dave-2693993  replied to  Skrekk @5.1.2    2 years ago

Thank goodness for the ice wall.

 
 
 
lady in black
5.1.4  lady in black  replied to  dave-2693993 @5.1.3    2 years ago

Do they live in Westeros, are there the Men of the Nights Watch who hold the Wildlings and the Others from beyond the wall at bay?

 
 
 
Split Personality
6  Split Personality    2 years ago

Norman-D found this recently - we thought it was more appropriate here.

36585144_934917853376568_2304430763837227008_n.jpg

 
 
 
Skrekk
6.1  Skrekk  replied to  Split Personality @6    2 years ago

Obviously a book-shaped earth isn't possible.    It's more like an ice cream cone.   Here's a top view and a side view:

 
 
 
Split Personality
6.1.1  Split Personality  replied to  Skrekk @6.1    2 years ago

Does the solar wind cause the ice wall as it blows by the edges of our ice cream cone world, lol?

 
 
 
Raven Wing
6.1.2  Raven Wing  replied to  Skrekk @6.1    2 years ago

Welll,....I'm sure glad that they at least left the North Pole. Otherwise, where would Santa make all his toys?  ?? $%^)@%(^

 
 
 
MrFrost
6.2  MrFrost  replied to  Split Personality @6    2 years ago
Norman-D found this recently - we thought it was more appropriate here.

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! laughing dude

 
 
 
bbl-1
7  bbl-1    2 years ago

The lead question is an easy one.  'Creationists or flat earthers?'  The answer is both.  Its in the bible somewhere ain't it?

 
 
 
Skrekk
7.1  Skrekk  replied to  bbl-1 @7    2 years ago

I agree that Cretinism is absurd, but note that esteemed rapper, musician and producer B.o.B. has recently accepted membership to the Flat Earth Society.      What more proof do you need that the earth isn't a sphere?

 
 
 
bbl-1
7.1.1  bbl-1  replied to  Skrekk @7.1    2 years ago

Well done.  Cretinism is much more apt as a description of 'creationism.

What puzzles me however is...…….Is it a noun, verb or adverb?

 
 
 
livefreeordie
7.2  livefreeordie  replied to  bbl-1 @7    2 years ago

Creationism is the only reasonable explanation for the earth and has NOTHING to do with the flat earth myth

The myth that Christianity believed in a “flat earth”

First of all the Bible says just the opposite (Isaiah 40:22 as an example)

Secondly and most critically, this myth was invented in the late 19th century by critics of Christianity in an attempt to dismiss religious belief

https://www.theologie-naturwissenschaften.de/startseite/leitartikelarchiv/flat-earth-myth.html

https://www.summit.org/resources/articles/debunking-the-flat-earth-myth/

 
 
 
epistte
7.2.1  epistte  replied to  livefreeordie @7.2    2 years ago

Logic also disproves religious belief.

 
 
 
Skrekk
7.2.2  Skrekk  replied to  livefreeordie @7.2    2 years ago

Larry, the Flat Earthers are definitely on your side.   Even their web site says that scientists and other skeptics were trying to hide the truth of the bible.

 
 
 
livefreeordie
7.2.3  livefreeordie  replied to  epistte @7.2.1    2 years ago

Nonsense. Logic has never done any such thing

christianity is based upon reason coupled with faith.

atheism on the other hand is a powerful belief system requiring tremendous faith in the unprovable

 
 
 
Skrekk
7.2.4  Skrekk  replied to  livefreeordie @7.2    2 years ago
Creationism is the only reasonable explanation for the earth and has NOTHING to do with the flat earth myth

I agree Larry, the only reasonable explanation is that the earth was created by a very large but invisible sky demon.    The only unanswered question is what the demon stood on while he was forming the plane of the earth.

 
 
 
epistte
7.2.5  epistte  replied to  livefreeordie @7.2.3    2 years ago

Nonsense. Logic has never done any such thing

Religion is a test of logic that most people fail because they are more driven by emotions than by facts. Prove that there isn't a teapot orbiting in the Kuiper belt? 

christianity is based upon reason coupled with faith.

Why do you believe in something that has no supporting evidence? A belief is what you are left with when you make an emotional decision but have no facts to support it.  Even the scientific concept of a hypothesis has more to support it than theistic religious belief. 

atheism on the other hand is a powerful belief system requiring tremendous faith in the unprovable

That is nonsense. Atheism is the statement that there is no god because there is no empirical evidence of such an entity.

 
 
 
Gordy327
7.2.6  author  Gordy327  replied to  livefreeordie @7.2    2 years ago
Creationism is the only reasonable explanation for the earth and has NOTHING to do with the flat earth myth

Uh, wrong! Creationism explains NOTHING! It's a failure to explain. And flat earthers sometimes invoke the bible to justify their beliefs.

The myth that Christianity believed in a “flat earth”

No one said Christianity itself believed in a flat earth.

Secondly and most critically, this myth was invented in the late 19th century by critics of Christianity in an attempt to dismiss religious belief

The idea of a flat earth goes back many centuries. Flat earth societies as an organization got its start in the 19th century, although they were rather small and never quite became mainstream.

christianity is based upon reason coupled with faith.

Reason and faith are polar opposites.

atheism on the other hand is a powerful belief system

Wrong again.

requiring tremendous faith in the unprovable

You mean like Christianity or any other religion? Unless you can prove there's a god?

 
 
 
MrFrost
7.2.7  MrFrost  replied to  livefreeordie @7.2.3    2 years ago
atheism on the other hand is a powerful belief system requiring tremendous faith in the unprovable

And YOUR God IS provable? By all means Larry, enlighten us.. LOL

 
 
 
MrFrost
7.2.8  MrFrost  replied to  livefreeordie @7.2    2 years ago
Creationism is the only reasonable explanation for the earth

Huh? Explain that, please... I am DYING to hear you explain how THAT is the only reasonable explanation... 

 
 
 
MrFrost
7.2.9  MrFrost  replied to  livefreeordie @7.2    2 years ago
Secondly and most critically, this myth was invented in the late 19th century by critics of Christianity in an attempt to dismiss religious belief

download.jpg

 
 
 
TᵢG
7.2.10  TᵢG  replied to  livefreeordie @7.2.3    2 years ago
atheism on the other hand is a powerful belief system requiring tremendous faith in the unprovable

What an odd thing to claim.   If you truly believe this, can you explain your reasoning?

 
 
 
Gordy327
7.2.11  author  Gordy327  replied to  MrFrost @7.2.8    2 years ago
I am DYING to hear you explain how THAT is the only reasonable explanation...

Because "god did it." Lol

 
 
 
Gordy327
7.2.12  author  Gordy327  replied to  TᵢG @7.2.10    2 years ago

Somehow, I doubt you will get any explanation. At least, nothing reasonable at any rate. But I'm curious to hear one too. Either from him or anyone else who believes in creationism. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
7.2.13  TᵢG  replied to  Gordy327 @7.2.12    2 years ago
I doubt you will get any explanation.

Never do.   Either no response or an answer to a question not asked.

 
 
 
Kavika
8  Kavika     2 years ago

Creationism vs Flat Earth. 

 th?id=OIP.y0th-SdpU1kVS3FygBn0JAAAAA&pid=15.1&P=0&w=300&h=300

 
 
 
Skrekk
8.1  Skrekk  replied to  Kavika @8    2 years ago

See # 7.2

 
 
 
Kavika
8.1.1  Kavika   replied to  Skrekk @8.1    2 years ago

Bingo

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
9  Paula Bartholomew    2 years ago

Not that I have a million dollars.  If I did, I would offer it to the first Flat Earther willing to sail until they fell off of the edge.  They money would go to their survivors.

 
 
 
Skrekk
9.1  Skrekk  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @9    2 years ago

The simplest proof that the earth is flat is that no one has yet returned from What Lies Beyond the Antarctic ice wall.

Also note that the fact that the earth is flat doesn't necessarily mean that an explorer would fall off the edge.   One theory holds that the earth is just part of an infinite flat plane with the region of the earth surrounded by the ice wall of Antarctica.

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/home/index.php/blog/infinite-flat-earth-mathematics

 
 
 
epistte
9.1.1  epistte  replied to  Skrekk @9.1    2 years ago

Surely someone has a panoramic picture of this all-encompassing ice wall. I want to see it. 

 
 
 
dave-2693993
9.1.2  dave-2693993  replied to  epistte @9.1.1    2 years ago

I wouldn't be surprised if NASA hid all information related to the ice wall.

 
 
 
epistte
9.1.3  epistte  replied to  dave-2693993 @9.1.2    2 years ago

I feel stupid for just thinking of this idea now. How do we possibly have magnetic north and south with a flat earth? Merely the existence of a compass as a tool of navigation proves that a flat earth is impossible. 

In a flat earth scenario, the Antarctic circle would be much large than the current globular equator. The equator would not and could not exist in a flat Earth.   Roald Amundsen could not have reached what does not exist.

 
 
 
Gordy327
9.1.4  author  Gordy327  replied to  epistte @9.1.3    2 years ago
I feel stupid for just thinking of this idea now. How do we possibly have magnetic north and south with a flat earth? Merely the existence of a compass as a tool of navigation proves that a flat earth is impossible.

I'll bet a flat earther would make something up to attempt to rationalize that.

 
 
 
epistte
9.1.5  epistte  replied to  Gordy327 @9.1.4    2 years ago

The lack of a molten iron core means that we would not have either gravity or magnetism as we now experience it.  The various phases of the moon would not look as they do now.  A new moon would look like a French macaron or an ellipse if we still have a 23° tilt.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
9.1.6  sandy-2021492  replied to  Gordy327 @9.1.4    2 years ago
I'll bet a flat earther would make something up to attempt to rationalize that.

They're big piles of refrigerator magnets.

Duh.

 
 
 
dave-2693993
9.1.7  dave-2693993  replied to  sandy-2021492 @9.1.6    2 years ago
They're big piles of refrigerator magnets.

See, right there.

There is always a simple solution.

 
 
 
dave-2693993
9.1.8  dave-2693993  replied to  epistte @9.1.5    2 years ago
The lack of a molten iron core means that we would not have either gravity or magnetism as we now experience it.

I think Sandy gave us the most reasonable answer about the magnetism issue.

As for gravity, that's easy. Obviously there are some centrifugal and centripetal forces creating the sense of this clearly false force labeled as "gravity".

 
 
 
Skrekk
9.1.9  Skrekk  replied to  epistte @9.1.3    2 years ago
I feel stupid for just thinking of this idea now. How do we possibly have magnetic north and south with a flat earth? Merely the existence of a compass as a tool of navigation proves that a flat earth is impossible.

It just means that the compass points to the giant magnet at the north pole no matter where you walk around the pole.    Duh.

 
 
 
epistte
9.1.10  epistte  replied to  Skrekk @9.1.9    2 years ago

Will Elon Musk convert that to an electromagnet powered by green energy? 

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
9.1.11  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Skrekk @9.1    2 years ago

Well shoot.  Go ahead.  Ruin my fun.Giggle

 
 
 
Skrekk
9.1.12  Skrekk  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @9.1.11    2 years ago

But what all the giant refrigerator magnets at the north pole require is that they all be magnetic monopoles  (I think that might be some kind of ethnic slur).

 
 
 
MrFrost
10  MrFrost    2 years ago
Creationism Vs. Flat Earth: Which Belief Is More Irrational?

Both are idiots.. So...toss up.. :)

 
 
 
MrFrost
11  MrFrost    2 years ago

Wait... So flat Earth....um....people...can see the other planets, and they can obviously determine that THOSE planets are all round....but somehow, the Earth is flat...???? WTF? 

 
 
 
Freefaller
11.1  Freefaller  replied to  MrFrost @11    2 years ago

Obviously there no other planets, it's all part of the NASA conspiracy

 
 
 
Gordy327
11.1.1  author  Gordy327  replied to  Freefaller @11.1    2 years ago
Obviously there no other planets, it's all part of the NASA conspiracy

Yeah, like man walking on the moon.

 
 
 
Freefaller
11.1.2  Freefaller  replied to  Gordy327 @11.1.1    2 years ago

Lol exactly

 
 
 
MrFrost
11.1.3  MrFrost  replied to  Freefaller @11.1    2 years ago
Obviously there no other planets, it's all part of the NASA conspiracy

Those bastards! LOL

 
 
 
Kavika
11.1.4  Kavika   replied to  MrFrost @11.1.3    2 years ago

Pluto isn't a planet it's really a dog....Oh hells bells what a disappointment 

 
 
 
cjcold
11.1.5  cjcold  replied to  Gordy327 @11.1.1    2 years ago

Filmed on a sound stage in Burbank.

 
 
 
Raven Wing
11.1.6  Raven Wing  replied to  Kavika @11.1.4    2 years ago
Pluto isn't a planet it's really a dog.

Hmmm.....I wondered where Pluto hid its ears. I guess planets don't have ears?   ??

 
 
 
Gordy327
11.1.7  author  Gordy327  replied to  cjcold @11.1.5    2 years ago
Filmed on a sound stage in Burbank.

Hollywood magic, right?

 
 
 
Gordy327
11.2  author  Gordy327  replied to  MrFrost @11    2 years ago
So flat Earth....um....people...can see the other planets, and they can obviously determine that THOSE planets are all round....but somehow, the Earth is flat...???? WTF

No, other planets are flat too. We're simply seeing them from 1 side only and planets are flat disks. So they only look round. See, perfectly reasonable. Lol

 
 
 
MrFrost
11.2.1  MrFrost  replied to  Gordy327 @11.2    2 years ago
No, other planets are flat too. We're simply seeing them from 1 side only and planets are flat disks. So they only look round. See, perfectly reasonable. Lol

Well, shit.. Guess I will go watch the documentary, "The Flintstones", and be done with it. 

 
 
 
Gordy327
11.2.2  author  Gordy327  replied to  MrFrost @11.2.1    2 years ago
Well, shit.. Guess I will go watch the documentary, "The Flintstones", and be done with it.

Good idea. It's very well done and informative. 

 
 
 
Skrekk
11.3  Skrekk  replied to  MrFrost @11    2 years ago
people...can see the other planets, and they can obviously determine that THOSE planets are all round....but somehow, the Earth is flat...???? WTF?

Here's the official explanation:

Why Would Earth Be The Only Flat Planet?

This betrays a logical fallacy. Karl Popper relates it like this; you may spend your whole life seeing only grey geese. This would lead you to assume there were only grey geese. Of course the next day you might wake up and see a white goose. Earth, in this analogy, is the white goose.

https://theflatearthsociety.org/home/index.php/about-the-society/faq#173819

 
 
 
TᵢG
12  TᵢG    2 years ago

I believe I have posted this before on NT, but this is very appropriate for Gordy's article.

In four minutes you can get a feel for the thought process ... so to speak.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
12.1  sandy-2021492  replied to  TᵢG @12    2 years ago

"Water seeks its own level", huh?

I agree.

And why do we think that is, exactly?

 
 
 
TᵢG
12.1.1  TᵢG  replied to  sandy-2021492 @12.1    2 years ago

These people seem to suffer from severe confirmation bias.  

 
 
 
Dignitatem Societatis
12.2  Dignitatem Societatis  replied to  TᵢG @12    2 years ago

Here's a longer one (20 minutes) that'll make you wish the Earth really was flat so you could go to the edge and throw yourself off.

A few people in this one emphatically use something in the Bible as evidence. I don't usually hear that one.

 
 
 
TᵢG
12.2.1  TᵢG  replied to  Dignitatem Societatis @12.2    2 years ago

Pretty much proof that the human mind is capable of believing anything.

Imagine how easy it was back in ancient times to convince people of gods and demons.

 
 
 
Gordy327
12.2.2  author  Gordy327  replied to  TᵢG @12.2.1    2 years ago
Pretty much proof that the human mind is capable of believing anything.

Delusion is a powerful thing.

 
 
 
Gordy327
12.2.3  author  Gordy327  replied to  Dignitatem Societatis @12.2    2 years ago

If that girl was a little more unzipped in the front, I would believe anything she wants me to believe. winkinglaughing dude

 
 
 
Dignitatem Societatis
12.2.4  Dignitatem Societatis  replied to  TᵢG @12.2.1    2 years ago
Imagine how easy it was back in ancient times to convince people of gods and demons.

Hell, look at how easy it is today.

 
 
 
TᵢG
12.2.5  TᵢG  replied to  Dignitatem Societatis @12.2.4    2 years ago

That was my point.

 
 
 
TᵢG
12.2.6  TᵢG  replied to  Gordy327 @12.2.3    2 years ago

Yeah but it would be difficult for her to make a  flat  argument under those conditions.    LOL

 
 
 
Dignitatem Societatis
12.2.7  Dignitatem Societatis  replied to  Gordy327 @12.2.3    2 years ago

By the way, Gordy, my answer to your article's question is the Flat Earth belief. Definitely more irrational. Maybe the most irrational belief out there. 

 
 
 
Dignitatem Societatis
12.2.8  Dignitatem Societatis  replied to  TᵢG @12.2.5    2 years ago
That was my point.

Combine how easy it is to make people believe things with the ability to make a living off of it, and presto! Organized religion.

I can see it now, the world's first entrepreneur... "Provide for me, the priest or shamen, and I will make sure that whatever god I can make you believe in will bless you and treat you favorably. Just bring your valuable offering in once a week and set it on the altar. I'll take it from there." *wink wink*

 
 
 
TᵢG
12.2.9  TᵢG  replied to  Dignitatem Societatis @12.2.8    2 years ago

Religion yields power and money for those behind the scenes.   Always has.  And nowadays this lucrative enterprise can operate tax-free.    Kenneth Copeland is the exemplar for this nowadays.  What an amazing bullshit story he and his cronies tell:  prosperity theology !    And people believe this crap and send them money.   This just kills me.

Prosperity theology (sometimes referred to as the prosperity gospel, the health and wealth gospel, the gospel of success or seed faith) is a religious belief among some Christians, who hold that financial blessing and physical well-being are always the will of God for them, and that faith, positive speech, and donations to religious causes will increase one's material wealth. Prosperity theology views the Bible as a contract between God and humans: if humans have faith in God, he will deliver security and prosperity.

 
 
 
Dignitatem Societatis
12.2.10  Dignitatem Societatis  replied to  TᵢG @12.2.9    2 years ago

I can't believe some of that stuff is legal. Do you know if any of those Copeland types have ever been sued for tricking elderly people into giving away their savings to the church? I think I've heard of that happening, but I'm not positive.

Wasn't there someone not too long ago claiming that God wanted him to have a brand new private jet or something? How do these guys have followers? Their crookery seems so obvious.

 
 
 
Freefaller
12.2.11  Freefaller  replied to  Dignitatem Societatis @12.2.10    2 years ago
Wasn't there someone not too long ago claiming that God wanted him to have a brand new private jet or something

Jesse Duplantis is who your thinking of. 

How do these guys have followers?

There are lots of desperate people out there and there are lots of people willing to take advantage of that desperation.  

 
 
 
TᵢG
12.2.12  TᵢG  replied to  Dignitatem Societatis @12.2.10    2 years ago
Do you know if any of those Copeland types have ever been sued for tricking elderly people into giving away their savings to the church? 

Most of those who got caught in a way that hurt their 'ministries' got into trouble with IRS, exposure of personal problems, exposure as frauds, etc.   Rarely (from what I have seen) are these people sued by their victims (or by others).   Seems like an obvious class-action lawsuit to bring forth.

Wasn't there someone not too long ago claiming that God wanted him to have a brand new private jet or something?

Yes, Ken Copeland's best buddy Jesse Duplantis.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
12.2.13  sandy-2021492  replied to  Freefaller @12.2.11    2 years ago

Creflo Dollar also needed a new jet, I believe.  Aptly named, isn't he?

 
 
 
Freefaller
12.2.14  Freefaller  replied to  sandy-2021492 @12.2.13    2 years ago

Lol I had to google it, too funny.  I guess he didn't think his real name (Michael Smith) had enough pizazz.

 
 
 
Jim of the Great Northwoods
13  Jim of the Great Northwoods    2 years ago

Flat earthers have nothing to fear but sphere itself.

 
 
 
Freefaller
13.1  Freefaller  replied to  Jim of the Great Northwoods @13    2 years ago

Nice

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
13.2  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Jim of the Great Northwoods @13    2 years ago

Nicely done.  thumbs up

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
13.3  sandy-2021492  replied to  Jim of the Great Northwoods @13    2 years ago

Well played, sir.

 
 
 
Gordy327
14  author  Gordy327    2 years ago

I'm waiting to see if there are going to be any defenders or proponents of creationism or a flat earth here to support either viewpoint. So far, only one has advocated creationism, and he is now conspicuously absent after being challenged or questioned regarding the fallacy of creationism. Not surprising actually.

 
 
 
Skrekk
14.1  Skrekk  replied to  Gordy327 @14    2 years ago

Larry is still very proud that the "right" side won the Scopes trial.

 
 
 
Gordy327
14.1.1  author  Gordy327  replied to  Skrekk @14.1    2 years ago
Larry is still very proud that the "right" side won the Scopes trial

I'm not surprised.

 
 
 
Gordy327
14.1.2  author  Gordy327  replied to  Skrekk @14.1    2 years ago

I'll bet his thoughts about evolution goes something like this:

 
 
 
TᵢG
15  TᵢG    4 months ago

Ridiculous things dreamed up by some and, worse, believed by others.

 
 
 
Gordy327
15.1  author  Gordy327  replied to  TᵢG @15    4 months ago

Possibly worse than that: used to scam others, ie. the Ark Encounter/Creation museum.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
15.1.1  sandy-2021492  replied to  Gordy327 @15.1    4 months ago

Ken Ham also managed to get quite the tax break for his scam.  So he scammed the county in order to be able to scam patrons.

 
 
 
Gordy327
15.1.2  author  Gordy327  replied to  sandy-2021492 @15.1.1    4 months ago

He's quite the con artist. And people are quite gullible too.

 
 
 
TᵢG
15.1.3  TᵢG  replied to  Gordy327 @15.1.2    4 months ago

No doubt about it.   The guy is a good businessperson.   He runs a solid organization — AiG — that is based on provable bullshit.   That is impressive.

 
 
 
Gordy327
15.1.4  author  Gordy327  replied to  TᵢG @15.1.3    4 months ago

It helps when there are lots of people who buy into his BS too. Especially if it conforms to their dogma.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
16  JohnRussell    4 months ago

Flat earth is more irrational because we can prove the earth is round. 

The idea that a "creator" created the earth and life on earth cannot be disproven in the broad sense. 

 
 
 
Gordy327
16.1  author  Gordy327  replied to  JohnRussell @16    4 months ago
Flat earth is more irrational because we can prove the earth is round.

But we can also prove the Earth is more than 6000 years old too. 

The idea that a "creator" created the earth and life on earth cannot be disproven in the broad sense.

It cannot be proven either. So there's no reason to assume there is a "creator." And scientific experiments have shown a "creator" is not entirely necessary either.

 
 
 
Drakkonis
16.1.1  Drakkonis  replied to  Gordy327 @16.1    4 months ago
And scientific experiments have shown a "creator" is not entirely necessary either.

For example?

 
 
 
Gordy327
16.1.2  author  Gordy327  replied to  Drakkonis @16.1.1    4 months ago

The Miller-Urey experiments demonstrated that life is capable of forming under natural circumstances and conditions without the need for outside intervention. The evolutionary process contradicts the notion of some outsidr guiding process.

 
 
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