Grand jury indicts 4 allegedly linked to white supremacy group, accused in attacks at rallies

Several members of the Rise Above Movement, or RAM, attended a "Make America Great Again" rally organized by President Donald Trump supporters in Huntington Beach in March of 2017, holding signs that read "Da Goyim Know," an anti-Semitic phrase, according to court documents. Rally attendees attacked also journalists and began fights with counter protesters.

But it's only leftists that are violent. Or so I'm told

But it's only leftists that are violent. Or so I'm told

Well, for most of us, you have to prove, as the court is now doing against these four, that they not only taped themselves beating the crap out of people and tried to use it as a recruitment tool, but that they premeditated and planned their violent acts on innocent peaceful protesters with the intention of causing a riot to be blamed for inciting violence. For most conservatives all it takes is a black legislator telling her constituents to "push back" against this administrations agenda or electing a black President to claim the left is trying to start a riot.

Note to self, remember this when asked when goppers incited riots...

Now they can join the ''Proud Boys'' as the RW terrorists...

If anyone can unite the ragtag groups of right wing extremists, it's President Trump!  Who says he's not a uniter? 

If anyone can unite the ragtag groups of right wing extremists

We really do need to unite white supremacists, Neo-Nazi's and KKK members, all together in one place, prison. Prison or maybe Antarctica where its white all year round.

Don't you dare subject the penguins to those sub-humans!

Trump's very fine people, he must be so proud.

This is quite interesting:

The four men used the internet to coordinate "combat training," travel and attendance at political rallies in Berkeley, Huntington Beach and San Bernardino last year, according to an indictment previously filed. They also allegedly planned to celebrate their violence in an effort to recruit more members.

I wonder if their recruitment efforts are in response to antifa violence?

I think they might be finding out what real violence tastes like in prison.  But yes, a lot of people on both sides seem emboldened to go past the line where right stops and wrong begins.  And people encouraging them, are worse than those doing it, as they aren't going to get their hands dirty.

But yes, a lot of people on both sides seem emboldened to go past the line where right stops and wrong begins.

The laws of physics are finally catching up with white supremacists. 

To every action there is always opposed an equal reaction. 

Some still choose to confront violence with passive resistance.

For some, the days of 'thank you sir may I have another' are over. 

I wonder if their recruitment efforts are in response to antifa violence?

?????    Antifa is responding to these guys and people exactly like them.

So are we talking chicken and egg? Who came first....the White Supremacists or Antifa?

Wait....that was a rhetorical question

And you asked for a example and there you have it, that didn't take long now did it?

Back on topic please. 

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"A federal grand jury in California returned indictments Thursday against four men allegedly linked to what has been called a white supremacy group who are accused of planning and engaging in riots at right-wing political rallies in the state, prosecutors said."

COOL ! 

Very cool. Finally, some of those who have actually been behind the violence and the intentional instigating of peaceful protesters, right wing white supremacist Trump supporters, are being brought to justice. Strange how we have these "Proud Boys" and "Rise Above" bigots, we have the right winger murdering Americans at a synagogue, a rabid Trump loyalist sending pipe bombs to those on Trumps enemies list, and yet it seems that all any conservative Republican can talk about is antifa, who hasn't actually taken any lives, the Scalise shooter, and Maxine Waters calls to "push back" against Trumps administration. The fact that many conservative Republicans place more blame on the side with the least violence is very telling.

Finally, some of those who have actually been behind the violence

When is the "Uber Left" gonna get the same treatment ?

Just wondering....since they actually do, instead of just plan that is.

Just wondering....since they actually do, instead of just plan that is.

Either you didn't read the article, or you intentionally ignored the FACT that 2 of the 4 who were indicted ACTED on their plans.

READ MORE CAREFULLY.  

BTFW, the link in the seeded article leads to the indictment in Virginia of 4 more scumbags and you'll be happy to know that they were all charged with ACTING on their conspiracy too. 

When is the "Uber Left" gonna get the same treatment ?

What was I saying earlier?

[Removed]

What was I saying earlier?

What gets me is that there are NT members here implicitly defending these violent white supremacists, and that's before they started drawing false equivalencies.

hey guess what? I wasn't replying to you!

Ya coulda just ignored my response then.

Got a rise though huh !

You luv's me ….. donthchya. 

I rest my case from here:

thenewstalkers

with this:

thenewstalkers

But Dulay asked me to get back on topic

Very revealing that not even one leftist responded to those calls for violence, but quite a few violent right wingers have responded to Trump's dog whistles and committed acts of terrorism.

Very revealing that not even one leftist responded to those calls for violence

Weird you'd think that ……. NOT ! 

So much Liberal Hate....so little space to list it all.

History is a fickle one for ideological hacks. 

No, I really don't.

[Removed]

[If one is to invoke Impasse, please do so without emoticons.]

but quite a few violent right wingers have responded to Trump's dog whistles and committed acts of terrorism.

Bullshit!  

Please provide real proof of that accusation and not simply some left wing crackpotted conjecture of who did any of that directly because of something Trump said.

You got nothing but hatred for Trump as proof.   Nothing at all.

Interesting that right after you said it was "very cool" that these white supremacists were indicted you immediately deflected the topic to leftists who either haven't actually committed any violent crimes at all or to leftists who were reacting against these violent white supremacists and the riots they deliberately incited.   

[Removed]

you immediately deflected the topic to leftists

I don't know what you are talking about now !

IMPASSE'..……………..

You called an IMPASSE with yourself? Interesting...

You called an IMPASSE with yourself? Interesting...

Sure...… 

[deleted]

I hope the authorities, both state and federal, are carefully going over as much video of these events as they can. The violence at these things needs to stop, but the people who start it think they won't get busted. Antifa wears masks to make sure it doesn't happen. All of these thugs, no matter what their political persuasion, should be locked up.

Several church groups at Charlottesville were delighted to have antifa there protecting them not just during the rally but the night before the rally when white supremacists when on a rampage and attacked elderly churchgoers.    Here's on example of several at the link:

Rev. Seth Wispelwey,  Directing minister of Restoration Village Arts and consulting organizer for Congregate C'ville

I am a pastor in Charlottesville, and antifa saved my life twice on Saturday. Indeed, they saved many lives from psychological and physical violence—I believe the body count could have been much worse, as hard as that is to believe .    [..]

A phalanx of neo-Nazis shoved right through our human wall with 3-foot-wide wooden shields, screaming and spitting homophobic slurs and obscenities at us. It was then that antifa stepped in to thwart them . They have their tools to achieve their purposes, and they are not ones I will personally use, but let me stress that our purposes were the same: block this violent tide and do not let it take the pedestal.

The white supremacists did not blink at violently plowing right through clergy, all of us dressed in full clerical garb. White supremacy is violence. I didn’t see any racial justice protesters with weapons; as for antifa, anything they brought I would only categorize as community defense tools and nothing more. Pretty much everyone I talk to agrees—including most clergy. My strong stance is that the weapon is and was white supremacy, and the white supremacists intentionally brought weapons to instigate violence.

slate

.

One thing I really love is that conservatives whine whenever the targets of violence by white supremacists and fascists fight back, even when their defensive tactics aren't physical.     In that regard nothing has changed since the era when John Lewis' skull was split open during a peaceful protest.

saved many lives from psychological and physical violence

WTF is psychological violence? That sounds like a fancy way of saying "dey hurt my widdow feewings."

A phalanx of neo-Nazis shoved right through our human wall with 3-foot-wide wooden shields

Both parties had official permission to demonstrate, but that permission does not extend to blocking others' way, much less with wooden shields. Stop pretending these people were innocent peace lovers who didn't show up armed to the teeth (including with balloons full of urine) and looking for a fight.

If you want to protest against Neo-nazis by expressing yourself, I'm right there with you, but if you seek a physical confrontation, like these people did, then what follows is on you.

WTF is psychological violence?

You mean like threats, harassment and intimidation?   That doesn't sound like it should be a very difficult concept to grasp.

.

Both parties had official permission to demonstrate

Not on Friday night when some of these attacks against church groups occurred.    Regardless, the rally permit doesn't allow neo-Nazis to attack other people.

.

If you want to protest against Neo-nazis by expressing yourself, I'm right there with you, but if you seek a physical confrontation, like these people did, then what follows is on you.

I think it's great that antifa is stepping up and trying to keep these terrorists from harming and killing more people than they did.    More power to them.

[delrted]

WTF is psychological violence? That sounds like a fancy way of saying "dey hurt my widdow feewings."

Seriously, you know better than that Tacos!. BTW, those were the Minister's words, not Skrekk's. 

Both parties had official permission to demonstrate, but that permission does not extend to blocking others' way, much less with wooden shields.

You are reading that statement incorrectly, perhaps intentionally. The Minister was part of a 'human wall' which the Unite the Right marchers 'shoved through' using wooden shields. 

Stop pretending these people were innocent peace lovers who didn't show up armed to the teeth (including with balloons full of urine) and looking for a fight.

As opposed to the Unite the Right marchers who were armed with FIREARMS and USED them. 

If you want to protest against Neo-nazis by expressing yourself, I'm right there with you, but if you seek a physical confrontation, like these people did, then what follows is on you.

So you're claiming that they should have counter protested passively and relinquished their right to self defense. WHY? 

If confronted with violence, would you run if you could? Would you defend your compatriots? Would you defend that Minister? Would you defend yourself? 

I've been there so I know what I would have done. When met with violence I fought back. 

As opposed to

No, I didn't put in opposition to anybody.

If confronted with violence

You show me someone who was peacefully minding their business being attacked. I'll be the first to run over and defend them. What I usually see in these things is two groups of angsty people itching for a fight. In that scenario, they deserve each other.

I'm not surprised though to see you defending violent neo-Nazis.

In your dreams. I defended nothing of the sort, [deleted]

You show me someone who was peacefully minding their business being attacked.

That started happening the night before the rally, you just haven't been paying attention at all.    Here's one example:

The first of these events was a prayer service on Friday night, the evening before the rally, when attendees say as many as 1,000 people packed the pews of St. Paul’s Memorial Church. Leaders such as Harvard Divinity School professor Cornel West and UCC minister Rev. Traci Blackmon stood before the gathered crowd to condemn racism in spiritual terms.

Harper delivered the final charge of the service, noting how ancient Hebrews found solace in the first pages of Genesis when exiled.

“They proclaimed to the powers that be—yes we are somebody, yes we are made in the image of God,” she said, referencing scripture. “We need to remember our ancestors, and how they struggled with the recognition of their rights.”

Harper said the worshippers—a group that included people of faith who traveled from far away to attend—were “fired up” by the end of the event. But as they filed out of the church, the evening took a dark turn.

A group of torch-bearing white supremacists unexpectedly stormed onto the University of Virginia campus directly across the street, shouting slogans such as “white lives matter” and “you will not replace us!” As the white-shirted hordes surrounded and harassed a small band of counter-protesters standing in front of a Thomas Jefferson statute, faith leaders quickly shut the doors of the church, instructing people to stay inside.

The religious leaders weren’t sure what spurred the surprise demonstration outside the church, but the message was clear: Hate had arrived.

“We got word that the church as being surrounded by white nationalists,” Harper said. “We ended up being held a lot longer because it wasn’t safe to leave.”

Another pastor, Rev. Osagyefo Sekou, lead the group in hymns as they waited out the racists. Harper said one woman who tried to exit the church was promptly maced by white supremacists , and several observers— including ThinkProgress reporters —noted an unsettling lack of police presence.

“These were hundreds of people — elderly, children — and many of the adults from the community were untrained and unprepared,” Wispelwey said. “So we held steady with them and got them out side entrances. We helped get some water to activists who were pepper sprayed.”

Despite the intimidation tactics, the group remained resolute. By the time it was deemed safe to leave, attendees say their resolve had only grown stronger—as had their faith.

“I don’t think there was deathly fear at that point,” she said. “We knew we were in God’s hands, and that God is stronger than anything that could come against us.”

thinkprogress

.

More here:

Hundreds of far-right demonstrators wielded torches as they marched on to the University of Virginia campus in Charlottesville on Friday night and reportedly attacked a much smaller group of counter-protesters who had linked arms around a statue of Thomas Jefferson.

Starting at a municipal park less than a mile away, “alt-right” protesters who have gathered for the weekend Unite the Right rally marched in a long column over the short distance to the campus, chanting slogans like “You will not replace us” and “Blood and soil”.

When the marchers reached and surrounded the counter-protesters there was a short verbal confrontation. Counter-protesters claimed they were then attacked with swung torches, pepper spray and lighter fluid.

Emily Gorcenski, who shared several live videos of the event, was among the protesters who said they were hit with the mace spray. “[They] completely surrounded us and wouldn’t let us out.”

She said police did not intervene until long after the rightwing marchers had struck out at protesters. “I saw hundreds of people chanting Nazi slogans and police do nothing.”

The Washington Post reported that at least one counter-demonstrator used a chemical spray, affecting a number of protesters.

Charlottesville police did not respond immediately to requests for comment.

Two male protesters who said they were also maced, and did not wish to be named, described far-right protesters moving from verbal abuse, to pushing and shoving protesters, to the noxious spray.

“Someone from the alt right maced me right in the face – unprovoked,” said one. “After they maced people they started punching people and hitting them with torches.” Several protesters said a woman using a wheelchair was among those sprayed.

Just up the street from the fracas, a community prayer meeting was held in St Paul’s memorial church, addressed by several preachers including prominent civil rights leader Dr Cornel West. The end of the service overlapped with the torch parade and many people waited for long periods before leaving citing safety concerns.

theguardian

You proceed as if I need convincing that Neo-nazis are ever violent. That's pretty ridiculous.

You asked to be shown someone who was peacefully minding their business when they were attacked by neo-Nazis and now that I've done so twice you're still whining about it?    How pathetic is that?

You are reading that statement incorrectly, perhaps intentionally.

It's so sad how you assume the worst in people. All I am doing is endorsing peaceful demonstration that doesn't obstruct the right of way of others or employ shields and weapons, etc. You and Skrekk want to pretend that means I have a swastika on my arm, and I can't figure out why unless you think it makes you morally superior. Why would you even want to assume that in others?

I did. 

It's so sad how you assume the worst in people.

Actually, I could have assumed much worse. As it is, my comment assumes that you are intellectually capable of cogency. 

All I am doing is endorsing peaceful demonstration that doesn't obstruct the right of way of others or employ shields and weapons, etc.

Since you recognize that BOTH had permits to 'demonstrate' one would 'assume' that you'd also recognize that NEITHER party had a 'right of way' over the other. 

You and Skrekk want to pretend that means I have a swastika on my arm, and I can't figure out why unless you think it makes you morally superior.

First of all, I am no more responsible for Skrekk's posits than you are for you fellow neo-nationalists. 

So now, please post a link to one of my comments that infers that you have any connection whatsoever with a Swastika. 

BTFW, when you can't will you disappear as usual or retract you false claim like a mensch. 

Why would you even want to assume that in others?

Why would you infer that I do without one iota of evidence? 

So now, please post a link to one of my comments that infers that you have any connection whatsoever with a Swastika.

(Grammar police timeout, no offense intended: Your statement implies. I infer its meaning)

I objected to this statement from you:

As opposed to the Unite the Right marchers who were armed with FIREARMS and USED them.

You're basically finishing my statement for me and implying that I think Neo-nazis are totally innocent, not itching for a fight, and not causing problems. I have never said so, but your statement implies that I am setting out to excuse or defend them. I am not. And I think it's unfair of you to suggest that I am apologizing for the nazis, particularly in light of the fact that I wrote this:

All of these thugs, no matter what their political persuasion, should be locked up.

So, in short, please don't add to my comments in a way that makes me look like some nazi sympathizer.

You show me someone who was peacefully minding their business being attacked.

I guess you conveniently forgot about Heather Heyer. You can go watch the video of her murder if you need a refresher...BTW, 19 others were injured by the murderer. 

You're basically finishing my statement for me and implying that I think Neo-nazis are totally innocent, not itching for a fight, and not causing problems.

Total bullshit. You're 'internalizing' comments that are in no way statements about YOU personally. 

I have never said so, but your statement implies that I am setting out to excuse or defend them. I am not. And I think it's unfair of you to suggest that I am apologizing for the nazis, particularly in light of the fact that I wrote this:

See again, you assumed the worst of me. I thought you were agin' that...

I actually give you be benefit of the doubt. Perhaps you aren't aware that there were a plethora of armed men who were part of the Unite the Right marchers. Perhaps you weren't aware that some actually USED firearms during the protest. 

At WORST, I implied that you refused to acknowledge that the Unite the Right brought and used firearms @ their 'rally'. Which doesn't 'infer' your support in ANY way. 

So, in short, please don't add to my comments in a way that makes me look like some nazi sympathizer.

I haven't ADDED a fucking thing to your comments. What you 'infer' is on you. 

I guess you conveniently forgot about Heather Heyer. You can go watch the video of her murder if you need a refresher...BTW, 19 others were injured by the murderer.

Am I not to supposed to infer from that comment that you are accusing me of not caring about people being murdered or injured? Is this way your way of proving how even-handed you are in your comments? Is this your version of giving someone the "benefit of the doubt?"

At WORST, I implied that you refused to acknowledge that the Unite the Right brought and used firearms

Well, even that would be wrong. It hadn't even come up.

I haven't ADDED a fucking thing to your comments.

You just got through admitting to that in the sentence I quoted above. Since it wasn't even in the discussion, you did add it. The problem with that is that you continue to attack me based on assumptions you make. It's all very strawmanish, if you take my meaning. Instead of trying to explain it away or blame the victim ("What you 'infer' is on you"), why don't you just stop doing it?

Am I not to supposed to infer from that comment that you are accusing me of not caring about people being murdered or injured?

As I said, what you infer is on you. You should know by now that if I want to convey that you are indifferent, I have a sufficient vocabulary to do so. 

Is this way your way of proving how even-handed you are in your comments?

What gave you the idea that I give a shit if you think that my comments are even-handed? Is this a new standard for NT that no one made me aware of? 

Is this your version of giving someone the "benefit of the doubt?"

I articulated EXACTLY what my 'version' how I gave you the benefit of the doubt. Again, you can infer whatever you want.

You just got through admitting to that in the sentence I quoted above. Since it wasn't even in the discussion, you did add it.

So let me infer something for once. I infer that the 'it' in your sentence is firearms. Yet YOU stated the following:

Stop pretending these people were innocent peace lovers who didn't show up armed to the teeth (including with balloons full of urine) and looking for a fight.

So I didn't ADD arms to the discussion, YOU did. I merely identified some of most LETHAL of the arms that people 'showed up' with. Of course, few were aware the use of a vehicle would end up being the most LETHAL of all. 

It's all very strawmanish, if you take my meaning.

Strawman light? 

Instead of trying to explain it away or blame the victim ("What you 'infer' is on you"), why don't you just stop doing it?

Am I to 'infer' that YOU are the 'victim' in this scenario? 

What gave you the idea that I give a shit if you think that my comments are even-handed?

All the work you are going to justify your comments.

Am I to 'infer' that YOU are the 'victim' in this scenario?

Yes. I thought I made that plain. You were doing something and I asked you to stop. Pretty simple.

All the work you are going to justify your comments.

Yes. I thought I made that plain.

Well you thought wrong. 

You were doing something and I asked you to stop. Pretty simple.

Well I thought that I had made it plain that what you infer is on YOU. 

BTFW, if you sincerely believe that my comments are a personal attack against you, you have recourse much more productive than pearl clutching, FLAG THEM. 

It's so sad how you assume the worst in people. All I am doing is endorsing peaceful demonstration that doesn't obstruct the right of way of others or employ shields and weapons, etc. You and Skrekk want to pretend that means I have a swastika on my arm, and I can't figure out why unless you think it makes you morally superior. Why would you even want to assume that in others?

wow tacos, just cant accept the proof you asked for was provided and either let it go or get over it. 

but nope not you....for shits sake, either you can just type that you agree or dont that these white supremacy guys have no business threatening or using violence towards peaceful people.

in following your back and forth, it has become clear that we can judge you on the words you havent said which would INFER you feel / side with / in pity or acceptance of these type of criminals choices that choose to hurt peaceful legally demonstrating citizens. 

i agree this person is doing alot of work to cover there own words that were not under any duress or personal attack to make! ooh my!!

we can judge you

Ah yes, the favorite hobby of the sanctimonious Left.

Followed by more of the same personal attacks I have been asking others to stop.

boohoo grow up sheeessh this is the internet. You typed something and requested information, that information was provided. 

And it has nothing to do with the left or the right it has to do with personal integrity. 

and clearly you feel if you bullshit long enough folks will forget about your inability to just admit the information was provided and that you should just acknowledge it vs making it some political claim. 

smh 

Hasta manana

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