Should the office of the President Of The United States be a position of dignity?
Is this now nostalgia, or should we continue to automatically expect a level of behavior by the person elected to be the leader of our people?
Should the president conduct himself with dignity?
Or is that an outmoded expectation?
George Bush I recently passed, and there was a great deal of reminiscence about how he conducted himself with decency and decorum. Is this now nostalgia, or should we continue to automatically expect a level of behavior by the person elected to be the leader of our people?
Is there any example in history of a nation being successfully and happily led by a fool and a buffoon?
Tags
Who is online
61 visitors
We are teaching the children to accept a level of anarchic behavior by national politicians (Trump, mainly). Can this be good?
Probably not as bad as some of the disgusting stuff LBJ was known for doing while in office. He used to play with his junk in front of people.
So, because LBJ did it, it is suddenly all right for every leader of our country to act a fool, the king of which right now it Donald Trump?
I have seen too many here using past bad behaviors of former POTUS's as justification for Trump's bad behavior. How are we to grow as a country when far too many refuse to say enough is enough.
I agree, but I also think the focus on Trump has been so intense that it ends up being at the exclusion of well-deserved scrutiny of other politicians. There are many who say and do absurd things. Trump didn't invent the bad behavior, he's just better at it than many others. If it were really such an anomaly, if it were really so offensive to everyone's sensibilities, he wouldn't have been elected. Unfortunately, no one wants to look in the mirror, so to speak, at the people they voted for.
So, do we just accept it and, watch our values sink into the abys with our country or, do we try to find someone better to represent us in the next election?
If you can find someone that is better than HRC, the Democrats might have a chance. But right now, the outlook is bleak for them....they seemed to be obsessed with Trump and are mired down in trivia and conspiracy theories.
I suppose that explains the 40 house seats and 7 govenrnships that the dems picked up in the mid terms...LOL
It's not finding someone better than Hillary, it's finding someone who is better than Trump and, right now, that's pretty fucking easy.
I referring to credible presidential candidates. Who's on your short list?
There is no Democrat that I would ever want to see in the presidency. Their ideology is against the values of our Constitutional Republic
As stated I was speaking about house seats and govenrorships not presidential candidates. Since you asked I don't have a short list and probably won't for another year or so.
Okaaaayyy, let's take a look at this. Most Democrats ideals are the same as the Founders were so, how are they against the Constitutional Republic? Also, there are a lot of the newly elected ones that are veterans. Are you saying that they don't want to serve our Constitutional Republic after swearing an oath to defend it against all enemies foreign and, domestic?
You question is laughable, considering you support Trump. Trump is a credible as a POTUS as would be a wart hog.
No, I didn't say that. Concern for this problem is laudable, but if your focus is only on Trump, then you won't solve the problem.
The current president, and his ideology, are against the values of all decent human beings.
Wart hogs did not deserve to be compared to Trump like that.
Wrong.
the founders not only opposed centralized power in Washington, they feared the power the Federal could take over the states
the founders opposed taxing income which they viewed as tyranny
Many of the founders said that our nation would fall without morality and religion
The more Trump and, people in his administration talk the more it reveals who they really are inside and, it seems as of today that many Republicans are starting to see through his phony clothing, they can see that the Emperor has no clothes.
Only in the form of a tyrannical leader, such as a president who thinks he knows more than his generals or, advisers and, is a narcissist and, a megalomaniac.
Once again you are mixing things up. You have stated that the DEMOCRATS don't want our Constitutional Republic to stand and, then you start spouting about religion when the fact remains in effect that according to our CONSTITUTION which has nothing to do with your religion plainly states that there will be a separation between the church and, the state. As far as morality is concerned, what makes you think that one religion is more moral than another and, what makes you think that someone who is not religious is also not a moral person, seems to me there are a lot of supposedly religious people over the past decades that claimed Christianity who have been proven to be immoral in their lives, many of them men of the cloth.
Dignity went out the window with the arrival of the Clintons. The behavior of the Democrats during the Kavanaugh confirmation hearings was very undignified and lacked any trace of decency. I really can't really find fault with Trump, being he's non political and a New Yorker gives him a style of expressing himself that some find offensive.
Perrie's a New Yorker and she's not a pathological liar. I don't think you can blame Trump's mountainous pile of shortcomings on geography. It's very silly. You think only New York can have narcissistic braggarts and blowhards? rofl.
No, where he comes from does not excuse trump. Actually, nothing does.
Many NY'ers find him offensive. How do you explain that...LOL
And leaving classified emails hanging our in the open for the Russians to hack was not very dignified of HRC.
Do you have any proof of successful hacking by Putin's associates
Good example. This isn't just a Trump issue. There is plenty of indefensible behavior to go around in Washington.
Trump was not just given the nickname, "The Original Short Fingered Vulgarian", by the citizens of NY for nothing. He earned it. Trump could not get himself elected Dog Catcher of New York City. Besides, there is hardly a family in New York State that Trump has not shafted at one time or another. Trump may be popular down in Biloxi or out in Fargo but he is universalky hated by those who know him most no matter his any "NY Style". You can take a boy out of Vulgaria but you cannot take the Vulgarian out of a Trump. That whole family gives lazy brokeass trash a bad name. What did poor no good lousy trash ever do to deserve any comparisons with The King of Vulgaria?
The last I heard getting a blowjob from an intern who was willing and, of the age of consent wasn't illegal, however, making a deal with a foreign power to get help in getting elected to office was illegal and, accepting money from a foreign power for favors from our government was against the law as well.
Absolutely. The PotUS is the figurehead for our nation both domestically and internationally. The optics are of critical importance with long-lasting effects. In the past children would admire the PotUS and were told by adults that maybe one day you might be President.
The office, unfortunately, has degraded considerably since it was held by George H. W. Bush. Apparently putting a person of good character, morality, experience and dignity is no longer important. The last election, where we had the frustratingly poor choice of either Trump or Clinton has set the bar so low I shudder to think of what will follow.
Bush simply lied to people politely and many didn’t realize the wool was being pulled over their eyes because he was polite.
“Read my lips no new taxes.”
To lie, Bush would have had to believe that he was going to raise taxes. Do you think he was purposely speaking a falsehood? Do you not accept the likelihood that political conditions effectively forced him to break a campaign promise later in his term? Seems to me Bush had every intention to not raise taxes during the campaign. His record of service suggests he was a man of character - not one who would likely cavalierly lie to the American people.
I do not fault presidents for being human beings and making mistakes - especially when it comes to seeing the future. Every PoTUS that I have experienced in my lifetime has made mistakes. The question here is not infallibility but rather character.
Thus, are you arguing that George H.W. Bush was a man of low moral character based on his biggest political failure with his campaign promise of 'read my lips ...'?
I think he should not have made such an absolute promise. That way led to Grover Norquist and total inflexibility on the Right. On the other hand, I don't think it was fair that he was treated like this nefarious betrayer of the American people. Situations change and smart leaders adapt.
I remember Bush the Younger wanted to be a compassionate conservative, and he wanted to end the nation-building he thought America had been engaged in. In other words, he wanted to focus a little more on America and a little less on the whole world (sounds familiar).
And then 9/11 happened and suddenly America was extending its reach all over the world in the name of national security. Because of exigent circumstances, the presidencies that both Bushes envisioned was very different from the ones they ended up with.
That's better than a president who says, "I did not conspire with Russia to win the election." when all the evidence points toward the fact that he did.
In his defense, he said no new taxes. He simply raised the ones we were already paying
Ok, here ya go,
And, this is only what the State of New York has on Trump, thanks to Cohen.
I've never said anything different but, she is light years ahead of Trump in ethics and, intelligence.
It amounts to nothing. Trump used his own money to pay off a whore prior to the election. This was not a crime. It was not campaign funds, and.......
it had NOTHING to do with "conspiring with the Russians to win the election"
Ethics and Hillary cannot be used in the same sentence, unless to say she lacked them.
This has proven to be the biggest political farce in US history. It had only one goal; subvert the electoral process and restore Democrats to power
Comey appearance before House 2018
“Mr. Gowdy. Some of our friends in the media use the word "collusion" from time to time. What is the crime of collusion? Mr. Comey. What is the crime of collusion? I do not know. I've never heard the term "collusion" used in the way it's been used in our world over the last couple years before that. I don't know of a crime that involves collusion. I think in terms of conspiracy or aiding and abetting.
Mr. Gowdy. With counterintelligence investigations, is there always a criminal component or sometimes a criminal component?
Mr. Comey. Counterintelligence investigations involve an effort to understand the plans and intentions and activities of a foreign adversary. Sometimes that leads to the use of criminal tools to disrupt. Sometimes it involves other tools to disrupt. So criminal is an element of counterintelligence investigations always because it's a potential tool to disrupt.”
Your biased source is laughable,
This is a relatively current list of Mueller's convictions and indictments,
It doesn't matter if he used his own money or, someone else's money, it was used to silence two women who would have told the public that they had an affair with Trump, near the end of the election and, that would have effect the election so, it is considered a campaign finance violation and, since it was a conspiracy it is a felony and, as such makes it an impeachable offense. The question is, will Congress do anything about it once Mueller's investigation is concluded.
Not laughable at all.
No American has been indicted for conspiring with Russia.
manafort and Gates are for crimes having nothing to do with Trump or the 2016 election.
papadopolous got 14 days for getting the date wrong in a CIA frameup meeting and is appealing
Flynn has been found innocent of wrongdoing with Russia and was pressured to admit to lying to the FBI (even though proven to have no intention of lying
Comey appearance re Flynn lying
Pages 105-109 NO EVIDENCE Flynn was trying or had any intent to deceive the FBI agents who interviewed him
“Mr. Comey. Correct. All I was doing was answering your question, which I understood to be your question, about whether I had previously testified that he -- the agents did not believe he was lying. I was trying to clarify. I think that reporting that you've seen is the product of a garble. What I recall telling the House Intelligence Committee is that the agents observed none of the common indicia of lying -- physical manifestations, changes in tone, changes in pace -- that would indicate the person I'm interviewing knows they're telling me stuff that ain't true. They didn't see that here. It was a natural conversation, answered fully their questions, didn't avoid. That notwithstanding, they concluded he was lying.”
“Recent reporting raised questions about the circumstances surrounding Michael Flynn’s guilty plea for making “false statements.”
Apparently, Peter Strzok, the FBI agent who conducted Flynn’s January 2017 interview, believed Flynn had been truthful. Reportedly, the FBI decided to take no action. On March 2, then-FBI director James Comey confirmed this to the House Intelligence Committee.”
As a former FBI agent, I believe the answers lie in an examination of the FBI’s disciplinary system under Mueller. In fact, this obscure Mueller process may well hold the key to understanding why Flynn’s guilty plea may be less a reflection of Flynn’s level of candor than a product of Mueller’s aggressive tactics — particularly, the tactic of using disingenuous allegations of lying to decide judicial matters.”
13 Russians who will never face trial were laughingly indicted for posting fake news on social media. A FARCE
I don't mind the American Conservative, even if it does lean heavily to the Right but, they are making the same strawman that every other conservative has been making since Trump came out with his tweets about collusion, it isn't about collusion, it is about conspiracy. If you will notice when I talk about the Trump Campaign and, Russia or, Trump and, Cohen together I say conspiracy, not collusion because, that is the crime.
The part that is enlarged and, is blue is called a conspiracy.
Nearly five months after the special counsel officially began his work, Mueller filed his first charge, accusing the foreign policy advisor to Trump's campaign of lying to the FBI. According to Mueller, Papadopolous told an Australian diplomat in 2016 that Russia had "dirt" on Hillary Clinton months before the Democratic candidate's internal campaign emails started leaking online.
As part of his plea deal with Mueller, Papadopoulos admitted that he discussed his Russia contacts with top campaign officials, including a possible meeting between candidate Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin. The White House sought to distance itself from Papadopoulos before he was eventually sentenced to 14 days in prison. Papadopoulos's indictment and plea deal was kept under seal until Oct. 30, 2017. Read the full indictment here .
With the Manafort indictment , Mueller ensnared one of the Trump campaign’s top aides and exposed a web of allegedly illicit business dealings between the former campaign chairman and pro-Russian Ukrainian officials that stretched back years. Mueller also indicted Rick Gates, Manafort’s longtime business partner. Manafort was eventually convicted on eight counts of tax and bank fraud, and later pleaded guilty to committing a conspiracy against the United States and a conspiracy to obstruct justice.
As part of his plea deal, Manafort agreed to cooperate with Mueller. But the special counsel eventually ripped up the agreement, accusing Manafort of lying repeatedly to investigators and requesting that the court move quickly to sentence the longtime GOP lobbyist. Read the full indictment here .
Mueller searches for the Trump-Kremlin connection.
Flynn's guilty plea signaled that the special counsel was looking into communications at the highest levels of the Trump transition team and the Kremlin.
Flynn, who served a brief 24 days as Trump's national security adviser, admitted that he lied to federal investigators about conversations he had with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak during the transition about sanctions President Obama had just imposed on Russia for its interference in the 2016 elections and entered a plea deal with Mueller. After Flynn's guilty plea, the retired military officer met 19 times with investigators, offering "substantial assistance," according to a Mueller court filing. The special counsel recommended little to no jail time for Flynn. Read the full indictment here .
I don't know whether to laugh or cry at this point.
It boggles the mind that people still think Papadapoulos or Flynn illegally conspired with Russia. It's worse than the birther stuff ever was. Claiming they conspired with Russia after the indictments were published is like claiming the Hawaii birth certificate proves Obama was born in Kenya.
.
[deleted] Comey testified last week that they believed Flynn had no intent to lie and was forthright with all his answers. I’ve read the indictment and it’s farcical. I’d rather see Mueller, Comey, McCabe, Yates, Strozek and others indicted for trampling on the liberties of Americans
furthermore he had every obligation to talk to Russia during the transition as has been the case with preceding administrations including Obama’s
Flynn is an American hero that has been railroaded by Mueller. I look forward to the day when an official apology is issued to him
That's tricky........I like it!
Actually it does. A candidate can spend as much of his own money as he wants on his own campaign. There's no limit. How he spends it doesn't matter either. Trump actually spent several million dollars of his own money on the campaign. He's allowed to do that.
That's not a crime. People engage in legal exchanges for non-disclosure every day. It's perfectly legal.
Yes, that's right. But that's also not a crime. Everything a candidate does or says is with the intent of having an effect on the election. It's not against the law to do a legal thing that has an effect on an election, particularly when you're one of the candidates.
Nope. It can't be. It's his money. Some like to compare this to the John Edwards situation, but he took over a million dollars in donations from other people (and he was still acquitted!). Trump spent his own money. That's never going to be a crime.
A conspiracy is an agreement between two people to commit a crime (not just something you find distasteful) coupled with a substantial step in furtherance of that objective. Paying off your mistress is not a crime.
But it turned out that raising taxes became necessary, so President Bush raised them because it was the right thing to do, knowing full well that he would pay a heavy political price for it.
You have absolutely no idea of what you contend! As a member of the transition team, Flynn and all the others were private citizens and as such, could not legally negotiate quid pro who nor any “government” business! Trump was not yet inaugurated and there is only one POTUS administration at any one point in time!
I realize I’m pissing in the wind trying to get you Trumpians to deal with reality ... but some of the things you believe with conviction are completely false!
No, Trump paid off a porn star and, a Playboy model with campaign funds, he never paid that money back and, the payoff happened two months or, less before the election with the sole purpose of effecting the election in Trumps favor, this is part of the testimony given by Cohen and, is evident in the tapes he provided to corroborate his story.
It is a felony to conspire to alter the outcome of an election which is what Cohen, Trump and, Pecker did.
Trump paying off Daniels and, McDougall no but, there is still the Trump tower meeting the Wikileaks information provided by Corsi and, Stone and, the Moscow tower deal.
Not according to Judge Sullivan.
Paying off your mistress to keep her mouth shut and, to hide the story of your affair to win an election is a crime, according the FEC and, it was committed by Trump, Cohen and, Pecker.
I love it when people present this situation, Edwards wasn't charged or, convicted for campaign violations as a felony because, the payoff happened well before the election and, it could be proven that it wasn't to hide the affair from the public but, keep his wife from finding out about it. In Trumps case that can't be said, there are tapes that prove that it was to effect the election and, since the payoff was to effect the election, it was considered a campaign contribution, that made it illegal and, a felony.
Absolutely! Voters no longer get to choose from candidates dedicated to serving this Nation and ALL of the People. Instead, we must choose from highly partisan, power seeking politicians. Trump wasn't a politician - which many obviously found appealing. Add to that a decline in true unbiased journalism. We are left with MSM that prefers biased opines and entertainment. Yellow journalism.
There are many bars that have been lowered in this Nation.
It certainly should be, but that's not something that's mattered to people for decades. There used to be an unspoken agreement to keep this stuff out of the public eye to protect the office. Kennedy could have naked white house swimming parties with girls, sometimes underage ones. Johnson embodied vulgarity and corruption it never became common knowledge. Thus "shock" when Nixon was heard on his tapes swearing like a sailor.
But by the 90s it became clear that Americans don't really care if the President perjures himself, or harasses women while in office. Both parties nominated inveterate money grubbing liars in 2016. That's the new standard and it doesn't look like we are moving away from it any time soon.
Nothing compares to the way Trump has debased and degraded the office.
People who claim so and so was or would have been just as bad are lying to either themselves or everyone else.
Nothing compares to the way Trump has debased and degraded the office
You obviously aren't familiar with JFK. Trump lies, more than most. But I don't think Trump's pressured a teenage girl to use drugs or service his friend while he watched in the White House swimming pool. Or have sex with Prostitutes in the White House. Or Communist Spies. Or Mob molls. Nor does he have secretaries named Fiddle and Faddle whose "job" consists of swimming naked with him in the White House swimming pool. One can only imagine what would happen if Trump attempted to do anything like Clinton, let alone Kennedy did, routinely.
Trump just doesn't have the press to deify him like Kennedy did.
Trump not only lies many times every day, TO THE PUBLIC, he
insults everyone who disagrees with him
calls his own aides and cabinet members names,
is an ignoramus who probably couldn't pass a fifth grade US history or civics test.
shoves leaders of other countries out of his way at international meetings
disparages US allies
fantasizes nonsense like suggesting a wall be built across northern Africa to keep "migrants" from reaching the Mediterranean
cheats on his taxes
asks US enemies to spy on his political opponents
etc etc
You sure didn't have much to say in that comment sir.
Perhaps you should quit posting for the day.
Gentle hint.
Times are different, the press would go after Kennedy today just like every other president. And Trump proudly grabs pussies, how the hell do you what else he's done? He has probably done everything you listed as well. Trump has debased the office to such a low that nothing compares. Why is Trump such a wuss? After all of the crap he personally put Obama through, Trump deserves all of his karma, sooner rather than later.
So your argument is: Kennedy did a lot of bad things, but Trump said something dumb and probably did the things Kennedy actually did, therefore Trump is the worst.
Okay.
And it always will be if supporters refuse to hold their leaders accountable. The problem is not Donald Trump. The problem is his base and his supporters. They embrace vulgarity and celebrate acts against the American election system.
Sure. But not the people who supported the President who perjured himself and harassed women, including while in the White House. A President lying under oath and those who cheered him for it sure didn't debase the White House! Your hands are as pure as the driven snow!
The Clintons turned our political system into the Jerry Springer show. Don't blame Republicans for following the precedent Democrats embraced. Democrats argued that character doesn't matter in the 1990's. You got your wish.
So.......they are using the, "But mommy, that kid did it too!!!" argument? Jesus, here I thought most republicans were adults and were supposed to be leaders....Oh well.
Sean - You do realize that Clinton was impeached, correct?
AND - you know that I have never supported Clinton. I've always criticized him....ALWAYS.
My principals cannot be purchased and your attempt to put me in the same hemisphere as a trump supporter falls flat. You're damn right I'm the better person on this issue.
Yes, and kept in office by Democrats who believed a President can commit perjury.
. I've always criticized him....ALWAYS.
If you supported the impeachment and removal from office of Clinton for perjury, than you have every right to demand Trump be removed for the same. But we aren't there yet. Mueller hasn't made that case.
But it's a joke for those who supported Clinton and opposed his impeachment and removal to turn around and claim Trump should be impeached based on has been made public.
Precedents matter. And Democrats lowered the bar in the 1990s. You can't expect the other side to play by different rules than the Clintons do.
Sorry Sean but I don't think a blow job and treason are in the same category.
We are beginning to see a new stage of Trump defense by his followers, which I will call "floundering".
Trump's behavior for the past 3 1/2 years is completely indefensible. Now, the wheels are starting to come off the trump train , and with no logical based ability to defend him, all his fans can do is flounder and lash out.
None of it is going to matter. The majority of Americans have decided he is unfit to be president of the United States and we are now witnessing the long (hopefully not too long) expiration of the Trump presidency. The next two years (if it all lasts that long) are going to be both scary(for the country) and hilarious (seeing the blowhard Trump get his just comeuppance).
Fasten your seatbelts.
Here's the thing. You don't get to make up imaginary crimes and then accuse Trump of them. If that's the game, then Clinton was impeached because he, not John Wayne Gacy, killed all those kids.
Doesn't it bother you that you have to make up crimes to charge Trump with to justify your hatred?
Why? I think I have a tremendously fabulous imagination. I'm pretty confident that I've even made you smile a time or two, though I doubt grumpy Sean will admit it.
Trump colluded with Russia. He encouraged them to attack US citizens for emails that could have contained confidential US information. He encouraged them in collaboration with Julia Assange to release information they had stolen to try and manipulate the US Election. He knew about the Trump tower meeting, he knew about Michael Flynn contacting the Russian's to discuss Sanctions, he knew about Jared Kushner trying to negotiate using a Russian secure line to do back door deals.
You can continue to deny it but I'm quite clear that Mr. Trump has committed acts against this country. Maybe they didn't rise to the level of treason but his actions are still a betrayal to this country.
Clinton was censured and lost his law license. I don't think he ever got his license back.
That's quite a punishment for a blow job....and just for you.....lying about it
Of course I would, you are one of the funnier posters on this site. Low bar that it is.
t I'm quite clear that Mr. Trump has committed acts against this country
I think Mr. Mueller will disagree with you.
His "crime" appears to have been not filling out the proper form while trying to keep his sexual escapades quiet. Clinton perjured himself, Trump, depending on your interpretaton of the law, got tripped up by the bureaucracy.
Sure and Trump is being punished for having sex too. (Not sure about the blow job aspect).
How is he being punished?
Thanks Sean!
Thanks Sean (deadpan)
Wrong - he's a criminal.... C.R.I.M....I.N.....A.L .
Well, Trump tweeted today about the findings on Friday saying, "There was no smocking gun", by the way I didn't misspell it, that is what the tweet said so, what is a "smocking gun"?
Donald Trump is 72 years old, and appears to not know how to spell the word "smoking".
Does that sound even remotely normal to you?
John by now you should know Nothing about this man trump is quite normal.
what's kinda funny is it still seems to shock you our president is what he is.
abnormal
Might as well accept it cause, I doubt it changes. As you said "Donald Trump is 72 years old."
Nothing shocks me. I am merely tired of Trumpsters bending over backwards to defend this fool, and making themselves look foolish in the process.
Half the comments made on this forum are not only pointless, they border on....... , well I guess I am not allowed to say.
No matter what you say it isn't going to change the content of this or any chatroom much. People will see and believe what they chose.
The people defending trump think they are doing good, trump thinks he is doing good, you and about half of America disagree.
And I seriously doubt trump spelling Smocking gun verse smoking gun is going to change any trump supporters mind of him one little bit considering all the crap this man has displayed to date for all to see and judge him by.
Its annoying I agree and shows he has some serious flaws as a person with as much responsibility as he currently has but as far as being surprised or seeing anything new here I think this is just one more little idocities of this president, which we see on a daily bases.
Some kinda do the reverse.
LOL
Out of one of my favorite scenes !!
Priceless, Thanks
Should The Office Of The President Of The United States Be A Position Of Dignity?
LOL Why is this question even a question ?
Of Course our leader should be dignified. However as we see it is evidently NOT a requirement.