We went through this several years ago with the sad Terri Schiavo saga. I'm sure her parents had faith she would recover somehow, but the reality was that her brain was irreversibly damaged by oxygen deprivation with no possibility of regaining consciousnessonitsown.
The autonomic nervous system can keep various bodily functions going indefinitely if it is not damaged, but to me that is not life. If a person's relatives want to pay the bills for the patients care, that is fine, but no taxpayer funds should be used.
Actually, the Terri Schiavo was not as cut and dry as this case was. She was not brain dead, but in a vegetative state. Those cases are always hard to decide.
There is an issue over hospitals deciding brain death. For instance, the brain can look dead on an EEG, if the body is too cold or there is very low blood sugar, all of which are very common in hospital situations. Harvesting organs is big business for hospitals, too. Skin is actually a commodity.
So while I agree, keeping the truly brain dead alive is a waste of money, a family should explore all avenues before pulling the plug. Often they are hit up with this right after the hospital declares them brain dead, and no one is thinking straight then.
And for the record, although I don't have it on my license that I want to be an organ donor, my husband knows my wishes. I don't trust the hospitals, but I do want to help if I am beyond life.
Mom was involved in an auto accident in '70 that resulted in 60% of her bones being broken, and 12 weeks in a medically induced coma, which she came out of - but with the mentality of an 8 year old. She was 47 at the time of the accident.
In '85, after numerous other accidents of falling and breaking bones, she fell and broke her hip. We rushed her to the hospital and she quit breathing. The docs got her to breathing again and put her on life support - but she had no brain activity for three weeks. They kept a heating pad under her liver/kidneys so her body could perform some functions, but could do nothing to get the brain working again.
Finally, Dad called us into the private section of the floor and explained to us what was going on and asked if we agreed to keep the life support functions turned on. We all agreed that since she had had no brain activity for three weeks, it was time to let her go.
21 minutes after shutting down the life support operations, she passed.
Families have to learn to accept the reality of death. Yes, the brain and heart are inexplicably tied together. If there is no brain activity, there is no life, regardless of whether or not the heart is beating. But, if there is brain activity, there is still the possibility of life in that the heart can be kick-started or replaced or any other medical magic as long as the docs can keep the blood, with its oxygen, flowing into the brain.
I know this 'cause I had a massive cardiac arrest in '15 - heart stopped dead still. I didn't have a heartbeat for 5 minutes, 22 seconds while the EMT's/First Responders/my wife were continually pumping my chest to cause the blood to continue to flow to the brain. Got to the hospital, two stents were inserted, heart was jump started and blood started to flow. I was placed in medically induced coma for 13 days and pumped with more meds than Walgreens carries to equalize the blood flow to the heart and brain due to the extreme amount of time the brain didn't get its full allotment of oxygen during that 5/22 time frame. Then I was placed in rehab for another 21 days to continue the equalization and to retrain me on how to walk, eat, look in different directions, recognize colors and, more importantly, remember who my family was.
So, yes, if you're brain dead - IMHO - you're dead. The medical team and my family all had agreed that, if my brain had not been functioning, they would not have kept me going. Fortunately, my brain hadn't died and I had a fantastic support team and superb Cardiologist.
had a distant relative when I was a kid that was a mortician in NM. after some prodding, he used to tell me and my cousins stories of what some cadavers did and carried a yellowed B&W picture he took of one that had sat upright on the embalming table overnight. this was long before refrigeration of stiffs was a common practice. he said it had something to do with the muscles and draining all the blood out of the skinny ones, since the fat ones hardly ever moved. early 60's cheap entertainment.
Advanced medical directives take a lot of pressure off "pull the plug" decisions by those responsible.
Frank discussions by relevant parties, and papers drawn up the by family attorney go a long way to make less hard things which are not easy for one and all concerned.
Seems to me, death is when an entity ceases to meet the criteria to sustain life. If a person is breathing, and with a functioning heart (even if both are artificially supported) maintaining the primal function of the body, the person is technically alive.
That seems to be easy to answer. The difficult question is when has a meaningful life ended?
I would think that once a person's memory is gone - when they cease to be who they were and are simply existing in an irrecoverable vegetative state, the person is effectively dead. That is because to me the brain is what makes us who we are. Our bodies are simply support for the brain.
Toughs calls though. People are comforted by going to cemeteries and talking to headstones so choosing to allow a loved one's body to die is psychologically difficult.
But, emotions aside, we are our conscious brains. Without the higher brain functions it seems to me we are no longer really alive even if the body continues.
Many years ago there was a radio drama that was a kind of "Twilight Zone" predecessor, and the story was called Mr. Arcularis (although I think there are other stories with that name). It was about a man who was deemed to be dead, but he was in a catatonic state, unable to move. However, you listened to his thought processes, and the terror he underwent. It was really scary, because he was just about to undergo a autopsy when a tear was seen emanating from his eye.
"When Are We Dead?" In modern day society that question, in to many cases, depends upon the insurance at hand and the cash savings at disposal.
This too, perhaps. Maybe we are truly dead when there are none still living that can recall anyone from the past that may have known us or met our acquaintance.
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
What defines brain death and does faith have a role in that definition?
We went through this several years ago with the sad Terri Schiavo saga. I'm sure her parents had faith she would recover somehow, but the reality was that her brain was irreversibly damaged by oxygen deprivation with no possibility of regaining consciousness on its own.
The autonomic nervous system can keep various bodily functions going indefinitely if it is not damaged, but to me that is not life. If a person's relatives want to pay the bills for the patients care, that is fine, but no taxpayer funds should be used.
Actually, the Terri Schiavo was not as cut and dry as this case was. She was not brain dead, but in a vegetative state. Those cases are always hard to decide.
There is an issue over hospitals deciding brain death. For instance, the brain can look dead on an EEG, if the body is too cold or there is very low blood sugar, all of which are very common in hospital situations. Harvesting organs is big business for hospitals, too. Skin is actually a commodity.
So while I agree, keeping the truly brain dead alive is a waste of money, a family should explore all avenues before pulling the plug. Often they are hit up with this right after the hospital declares them brain dead, and no one is thinking straight then.
And for the record, although I don't have it on my license that I want to be an organ donor, my husband knows my wishes. I don't trust the hospitals, but I do want to help if I am beyond life.
Mom was involved in an auto accident in '70 that resulted in 60% of her bones being broken, and 12 weeks in a medically induced coma, which she came out of - but with the mentality of an 8 year old. She was 47 at the time of the accident.
In '85, after numerous other accidents of falling and breaking bones, she fell and broke her hip. We rushed her to the hospital and she quit breathing. The docs got her to breathing again and put her on life support - but she had no brain activity for three weeks. They kept a heating pad under her liver/kidneys so her body could perform some functions, but could do nothing to get the brain working again.
Finally, Dad called us into the private section of the floor and explained to us what was going on and asked if we agreed to keep the life support functions turned on. We all agreed that since she had had no brain activity for three weeks, it was time to let her go.
21 minutes after shutting down the life support operations, she passed.
Families have to learn to accept the reality of death. Yes, the brain and heart are inexplicably tied together. If there is no brain activity, there is no life, regardless of whether or not the heart is beating. But, if there is brain activity, there is still the possibility of life in that the heart can be kick-started or replaced or any other medical magic as long as the docs can keep the blood, with its oxygen, flowing into the brain.
I know this 'cause I had a massive cardiac arrest in '15 - heart stopped dead still. I didn't have a heartbeat for 5 minutes, 22 seconds while the EMT's/First Responders/my wife were continually pumping my chest to cause the blood to continue to flow to the brain. Got to the hospital, two stents were inserted, heart was jump started and blood started to flow. I was placed in medically induced coma for 13 days and pumped with more meds than Walgreens carries to equalize the blood flow to the heart and brain due to the extreme amount of time the brain didn't get its full allotment of oxygen during that 5/22 time frame. Then I was placed in rehab for another 21 days to continue the equalization and to retrain me on how to walk, eat, look in different directions, recognize colors and, more importantly, remember who my family was.
So, yes, if you're brain dead - IMHO - you're dead. The medical team and my family all had agreed that, if my brain had not been functioning, they would not have kept me going. Fortunately, my brain hadn't died and I had a fantastic support team and superb Cardiologist.
had a distant relative when I was a kid that was a mortician in NM. after some prodding, he used to tell me and my cousins stories of what some cadavers did and carried a yellowed B&W picture he took of one that had sat upright on the embalming table overnight. this was long before refrigeration of stiffs was a common practice. he said it had something to do with the muscles and draining all the blood out of the skinny ones, since the fat ones hardly ever moved. early 60's cheap entertainment.
This is a good question.
One being debated to this very day.
Good and thought provoking seed.
Advanced medical directives take a lot of pressure off "pull the plug" decisions by those responsible.
Frank discussions by relevant parties, and papers drawn up the by family attorney go a long way to make less hard things which are not easy for one and all concerned.
Peace and Abundant Blessings to One and All.
Enoch.
Seems to me, death is when an entity ceases to meet the criteria to sustain life. If a person is breathing, and with a functioning heart (even if both are artificially supported) maintaining the primal function of the body, the person is technically alive.
That seems to be easy to answer. The difficult question is when has a meaningful life ended?
I would think that once a person's memory is gone - when they cease to be who they were and are simply existing in an irrecoverable vegetative state, the person is effectively dead. That is because to me the brain is what makes us who we are. Our bodies are simply support for the brain.
Toughs calls though. People are comforted by going to cemeteries and talking to headstones so choosing to allow a loved one's body to die is psychologically difficult.
But, emotions aside, we are our conscious brains. Without the higher brain functions it seems to me we are no longer really alive even if the body continues.
Not fair. No text?
Many years ago there was a radio drama that was a kind of "Twilight Zone" predecessor, and the story was called Mr. Arcularis (although I think there are other stories with that name). It was about a man who was deemed to be dead, but he was in a catatonic state, unable to move. However, you listened to his thought processes, and the terror he underwent. It was really scary, because he was just about to undergo a autopsy when a tear was seen emanating from his eye.
"When Are We Dead?" In modern day society that question, in to many cases, depends upon the insurance at hand and the cash savings at disposal.
This too, perhaps. Maybe we are truly dead when there are none still living that can recall anyone from the past that may have known us or met our acquaintance.
This is a test comment to Texan
Thanks!