What divides us: The wall isn't about "security." It's about competing visions of America
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi has been roundly criticized on the right for saying that Trump's wall is immoral as a reason for refusing to capitulate to his demands.She's been saying it for some time, but was taken to task most recently when she said , "a wall is an immorality. It’s not who we are as a nation."
President Trump issued the most puerile response, naturally:
If Nancy Pelosi thinks that Walls are “immoral,” why isn’t she requesting that we take down all of the existing Walls between the U.S. and Mexico, even the new ones just built in San Diego at their very strong urging. Let millions of unchecked “strangers” just flow into the U.S.
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) January 21, 2019
Setting aside the nonsense about tearing down the existing fencing, the last part of his comment about "strangers" flowing into the country is actually important. These two comments from the Democratic and Republican leaders are an excellent illustration of the underlying dynamics of this border wall fight. When Senator Lindsey Graham R-SC said the other day that the wall had become a metaphor for border security he was half right. It's become a metaphor for the political divide.
Polling from the Public Religion Research Institute (PRRI) reveals that the wall represents something very different to those who support it and those who don't, and what it means goes right to the heart of how these different Americans see themselves, their future and their country.
According to the polling, among all Americans, 58 percent oppose building a wall between the U.S. and Mexico, compared to 41 percent who favor the policy. White Americans without a four-year college degree favor this policy 55 percent vs. 35 percent. And 55 percent of white men favor the wall, compared to 42 percent of white women. (These numbers closely align with other polls from CNN , the Pew Research Center , Quinnipiac and ABC/Washington Post ) That breaks down to 80 percent of Republicans in favor of building a wall along the border, 80 percent of Democrats oppose and 62 percent of Independents oppose.
But the wall is a symbol for something much more fundamental. CNN's Ron Brownstein wrote a comprehensive analysis of these findings which back up his central thesis of a nation divided between what he calls the Republican "coalition of restoration" vs the Democratic "coalition of transformation." He writes:
In this sharply divided political alignment, the wall looms as a concrete (literally, in earlier versions of Trump's plan) manifestation of deeper views about whether these changes are rejuvenating the country or threatening its traditions.
You won't be surprised to learn that the PRRI poll shows that wall supporters are just as hostile to legal immigration as they are to undocumented immigrants who cross the border illegally. Or that they are upset when they are exposed to people who don't speak English and believe they are threatening our traditional values. So all this folderol about "border security" isn't really about crime. It's just about keeping foreigners out of the country.
These folks have similar attitudes about race and gender too. Wall supporters see no problems with systemic racism or police violence, and in fact believe that whites are more discriminated against than African-Americans. They don't believe feminism reflects what most women believe, and a majority of them think men are just as discriminated against as women.Wall opponents believe the opposite on all those issues. Indeed, it appears that one can fairly well determine what a person's values and beliefs about what America stands for simply by asking their position on the wall.
Starting to feel the heat over the government shutdown from Republicans, President Trump gave a desultory speech over the weekend in which he pretended to offer a compromise on the government shutdown. This would allow DACA recipients as well as immigrants with Temporary Protected Status, or TPS, a three-year reprieve in exchange for a bunch of money to put even more equipment, people and other resources on the border -- as well as, of course, the $5.7 billion Trump is demanding for his wall. Considering that he's the one who withdrew the protections for the DACA and TPS immigrants in the first place, it took some nerve for him to "offer" to allow them to stay in the country temporarily. No one has ever accused Donald Trump of not having chutzpah.When the White House finally released its full plan on Monday, of course, it turned out to be yet another bait and switch.As Spencer Ackerman and Scott Bixby of the Daily Beast explain it , this proposal would balloon the ICE budget, with at least $1 billion more than previously allotted, along with an additional 2,000 agents. But that's not the worst of it. The proposal severely limits legal immigration while increasing detention and deportation. Worst of all, it eviscerates the asylum protections for refugees, taking particular aim at Central American children, pretty much making it impossible for them to seek safety in the United States. According to Ackerman and Bixby:
The bill’s stipulations include the “Central American Minors Protection Act of 2019,” which would create a “new system” for seeking asylum promised by President Donald Trump in a 20-minute speech outlining the proposal. That act would legally bar minors hailing from El Salvador, Guatemala or Honduras from applying for asylum inside the United States, and instead require them to apply at “a Designated Application Processing Center in Central America.”
Remember, the young people in question are fleeing their home countries because they are in mortal danger. As Jonathan Ryan, executive director of the Refugee and Immigrant Center for Education and Legal Services (RAICES) told the Daily Beast, “The first and most critical step in not dying in a house that’s on fire is to get out of the house.”
The proposal is contradictory and logically absurd, filled with Catch-22s that would leave a bunch of kids stranded at the border for months. It also eliminates judicial review, leaving all decisions in the hands of the Director of Homeland Security, whose job under the Trump administration seems to be completely focused on punishing children who cross the Mexican border.The Democrats have rejected this proposal for obvious reasons. The "deal" to reopen the government is getting more unacceptable to them by the day. It didn't take a genius to see that if they believe the wall is an immorality, doubling down on the cruelty toward Central American children seeking protection and refuge in was not an effective way sweeten the deal.As we can see in those PRRI poll results, this isn't really about a wall for anybody. Since the supporters only represent 40 percent of the population, if they want to prevail they have to force their worldview on the majority against its will. Holding the government hostage to the point of pain for millions of Americans -- in order to inflict pain on vulnerable refugees and immigrants -- is an exercise of power to prove just whose country this is. That too is an immorality.
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Maybe since our leaders cant lead, we should have binding referendums about these "major" national issues.
It seems the majority of Americans don't want this. So why is the fool in the White House trying to destroy the country over it?
That is because 58%of the people are sheep and believe what they are told to say by the main stream media. The rest are conservatives and can think for themselves.
That is because 58%of the people are sheep and believe what they are told to say by the main stream media. The rest are conservatives and can think for themselves.
In the era of Trump, msm has little sway on the public. Anyone with a thinking brain can judge Trump on his own actions and statements. Anyone without a thinking brain is a ..., well, you know. I can’t say it here because NT is all about politeness. If we use sweeping generalizations here then the internet police will break down the doors, shut the site down, and haul Perrie off to internet jail.
Should politicians only pass legislation that is preapproved by a majority of Americans now?
For two years now we have had Trump and his supporters pretend they are a majority of Americans.
They are not.
If he doesnt want to work with the majority viewpoint he will take the blame.
Oh, like Democrats did for passing the PPACA when the majority of Americans were opposed to it?
You are leaving out that Polls are bullshit; and have been proven to be so repeatedly. Which is the reason we don't decide anything involving laws, elections, or trials using polls. They are meant to be a tool to to gauge which way the public leans on issues; not a very good tool at that.
It's like he said in his book, Surviving at the Top, "For me, you see, the important thing is the getting... not the having."
well he certainly seems quite used to getting pretty well anything his little heart desires.
One way or another no matter what the cost, to others. Somehow though he himself, trump always seems to land clear of the debris field. Go figure.
The Dems offered 5.7 bil today. James Clybourn called it the equivalent of a wall, giving Trump a way to save face, but Trump has not accepted.
That is all you need to know about their "offer". The same promise was made to Reagan; and the Dems reneged on it.
If the Dems have all of these "grand ideas" on border security put them in the budget and send it to the Senate. None of this BS about open the government first; and then we will negotiate maybe somewhere at a future date, down the the road, now that we have what we want.
Just because some old man CLAIMED it was the equivalent of a wall doesn't MAKE it an equivalent of a wall.
I remember when Democrats put their constituents before illegal aliens.
now the minorities are being backed by democrats many of whom are non white males themselves and its affecting everyone.
But watch the white males still in power try to ignore their desires and needs even longer as the white males lose power over to the people they would like to control.
It's all in the numbers and we are losing. We'll lose even more the more we ignore them and they are forced and embolden to gain more of that power for themselves.
I don't personally know anyone who thinks like that.
I think you are making too big of an issue of this white power thing. And WHAT "control" do whites have over others that they don't also have over other whites?
Well You dont really know me, But evidently I thought like that or I wouldn't have said it. lol
WHAT "control" do whites have over others that they don't also have over other whites?
Not sayin we do, I'm saying as the population becomes more diverse we the white male is losing power and others are replacing our roles in that power base quickly, The more we do not take into consideration their wants and needs the quicker they will want to and will replace us and control the country themselves.
If they win elections, more power to them!
I don't consider govt. as controlling us.
They will and are. and I see the government in having a hand in most everything that we need, from breathable air and drinkable water to safe foods and medicines to what kind of jobs are allowed to be legal to how much it costs my to own a home and pay property taxes. The laws I need to abide by and the streets I need to travel on.
That may not be control, but is sure affects a lot of the world I live in.
As a member of this society, you sign on to accept laws.
Control is something different. No one tells you where to go, when to go there,
True but the government does try to have some control over stuff like what's in the food we eat and the water we drink, We have laws pertaining to how much alcohol one can consume in public and what and where what one can smoke in public, That is IMO: Some forms of control our government has directly over us as individuals.
Freedom is only as free as others say so. Try running naked down the street see how free we are as the government agents are controlling you into their paddywagon.
lol
PS: Freedom without control is chaos
I remember that was about a wall separating East Berlin from West Berlin; and there was an East Germany and West Germany. A country that was divided after WWII because it was considered too dangerous to be left whole.
If you can't see the difference between that and trying to keep illegal immigrants out of our country; then you really don't understand the argument.
By the way, Reagan is the fool that gave the left the amnesty they wanted for illegal immigrants living within the US at that time in exchange for a border fence, and increased border security. The Dems got what they wanted and then reneged on funding for the border fence and security. History looks to be repeating itself. The left want DACA, and in exchange they will "negotiate" on border security; but only after the government reopens removing all pressure on them to do anything.