Rules of Engagement -- What is Good Netiquette?
In life, there are two sets of rules. One is legal, which keeps us from killing each other, and the other is manners/customs, which prevents us from driving each other crazy.
The internet represents certain freedoms from conventions. We don't have to be dressed up-- we can come in our jammies. We don't have to wait until someone is awake, we can communicate at 3 am.
It is human nature to test the bounds of freedom. Freedom, without some sort of manners or rules just doesn't work. Internet communities, such as NewsTalkers, won't work, either, unless they are regulated by netiquette.
It took about three minutes for those on the internet to discover that there are more ways to be obnoxious in cyberspace, and fewer ways to regulate them, than in real life. In real life, one may get one's head bashed in-- but the nature of the internet is such that one is insulated from many of the consequences of our actions.
What is netiquette? Netiquette is a voluntary bargain we make to live peaceably with one another. It isn't something that one can figure out solely from common sense-- although common sense plays a large part of it. One must learn netiquette, just as surely as one must learn the protocols of a particular company where one works.
Every site is different, and NewsTalkers is no exception. Yet, every site has a set of "rules" that enable the site to function, and attract/retain members. Here are some "netiquette" suggestions, (some are policies), that we here on NT voluntarily practice:
1. Spamming -- Spamming is unwanted content. It may be flooding the front page with articles that represent only one point of view-- using up the slots available for all other viewpoints. There is actually a policy here on NT for that-- no one should write/seed more than five, (5) articles per day for the front page. But, in general, it is good manners to allow all viewpoints to be represented on the main forum, (front page).
2. Advertising -- This isn't a policy, but it is just good manners to refrain from going on to other's articles and advertising your own-- unless you have the permission of the author to do so. If you have written/seeded an article that is related to the discussion, you may politely ask if you can place a link on your comment, but don't do so, unless the author is amenable. To advertise your own article on another's article, is the equivalent to putting your bookbag into someone else's backpack, so they can carry it for you.
3. Remember the Human -- Behind every avatar lies a real human being. Talk to them as you would speak to them in real life. Insults, incivility, name calling, rudeness-- produces the same negative feelings in others in cyberspace as it does in real face-to-face encounters. Ask yourself-- would I say this to the person's face?
4. Ethics -- Be ethical. Chances are, if you tell big lies on the internet, you will get caught. The reactions to those around you will mirror those in real life. You will be ostracized, distrusted, and ridiculed. Behave as you would in real life, and refrain from mis-representation.
5. The Center of Cyberspace -- You are not the center of the cyberspace. It is sometimes easy to forget that other people have concerns that don't include you. Don't expect instant replies. Don't forget that others may not agree with-- or care about-- your point of view.
6. Flame-baiting -- Don't be controversial for the sake of being controversial. Don't make comments that are cutting and unkind to another person, (remember the human). And don't post articles that flame another person, needle another person, or are directed at another person in a derogatory manner.
7. Flame Wars -- Don't perpetuate a flame war. Comments shooting back and fort about a particular topic are the enjoyable part of the debate. Comments shooting back and forth that are personal in nature are not. They can ruin the tone of a discussion, and are actually a waste of bandwidth. How do you stop a flame war? Refuse to participate.
8. Forgiveness -- Be forgiving of other's mistakes. All of us mistype occasionally, or misspell particular words. It's no fun to be set upon by a grammar Nazi, and it defeats the purpose of the conversation. Stick to the topic, not the grammar.
None of us are perfect on the internet-- because we are not perfect in real life. But, if we work together, we can make NT a more enjoyable place to be, for everyone!
Thanks for coming by!
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I'm sure that all of you can come up with better ones than these-- but this is a start! Remember that this is a voluntary action to make internet life more pleasant for all of us.
Hope all of you have a great day!
Ahhhhh - such easy rules to follow Dowser, yet many totally ignore even the most basic premise - "Treat others as you wish to be treated yourself."
Thanks for the posting.
Good article Dower,
What would be better, is if people followed the common sense rules.
Yes, it would be.
If all of us behaved as if the person they are addressing is standing in front of them, we would probably all be better off!
Common sense-- I agree!! Some of the stuff I read here is utterly unbelievable! I wonder if people REALLY believe it, or are just spouting off to get a reaction out of others...
My pleasure, dear 1st.
You are so very right!
Dowser
Excellent advice and a model for civil debate
Will it gain a stronger foothold here.....that is the question.
Here's hoping it does
Thanks for posting
Likely not, as there are those here who would defend their right to be nasty, no matter what. All under the guise of Freedom of Speech, etc.
But, I can hope, right? Hope is that wonderful little thing with feathers that sometimes takes flight!
What do you think is good netiquette?
Great article Dowser. I love the part about remember the humans.
Thanks, very much!
Kudos and a tip of the Swami's turban, Dowser!!
Likely to be another case of 'pearls before swine', but worth saying nonetheless. One can only hope...
We can hope, you are not alone in this!
Thanks, Swamijim-- to me, this is just good manners...
Robert, thanks. I know I'm not. Thankfully!!!
I know you are! This wasn't directed toward you!!
Take care, Robert!
Don't we all?
Just keep swimming, just keep swimming...
Great article. Sad we're in the adult world discussing good manners and ethical treatment of our fellow man. Over the last ten to fifteen years I've wondered how/why humanity became so nasty. Perhapsthe bullying we see in ourschool system is a direct result of what's happening in the home, bullying adults!Seemingly "freedom of speech"provides justification for rude behaviors.
I'm sure most of us had that youthful soap in the mouth experience, we should all remember why we had it
I surely did. I don't remember what I said, exactly, but Dove soap tastes awful!
I wonder if it's not because of the examples set in our media... The art of civil discourse seems to be lost on many reputable, (and disreputable), news sites.
I perceive an unreasonable , unclear and ill defined use of red book rules is also a nono
Two things, first of all I believe that one aspect of netiquette is not to type in all capital letters as it is considered to be tantamount to shouting.
The other, though, troubles me. If I am commenting on a seed and an issue comes up that perhaps I had previously posted an article or opinion, positive or negative, that is relevant, I see nothing wrong with posting a link to it without having to go through the process of asking permission to do it. On Newsvine I questioned staff about that and apparently a link to refer to an article or comment within Newsvine without permission was acceptable, but linking to one's own website was not. For example, if someone posts an article about movie stars and mentions Humphrey Bogart, and I had previously posted an article about him on Classic Cinema, I would certainly post a comment with a link to it suggesting that more information was available there. Nobody I have ever done that with has complained that it was the wrong thing to do.
Thanks for your viewpoint, Petey!
This "list" was researched from several sites that discussed Netiquette-- but the rule about posting links without the author's permission is one that I happen to agree with. I mean, it doesn't take much time to send and message and ask... Or chat message and ask...
Your links are usually of the sort that are like, "For more information, click here". Innocuous and interesting!
To me, it's just a courtesy-- not a rule, just nice to ask first. I can't see anyone ever objecting to your links, Buzz.
This is an ordinary sentence.
This is an ORDINARY sentence.
This is NOT an ordinary sentence.
THIS IS NOT AN ORDINARY SENTENCE.
Capitalization is for emphasis. What interpretation is logical for a sentence where everything is emphasized?
Communication depends on conventions. "All caps is shouting" is a convention, and a very logical one. If you choose to violate it, then you must not be surprised that other people interpret your posts as shouting.
-- Communication 101
The cap lock thing is usually a symptom of "internet swollen head syndrome" a condition where the writer uses cap locks the same as a gorilla beats his chest.
We have one moderator that specializes in the practice.
LOL having just discussed the cap lock issue with my 77 year-old Mom. She's like "I'm not shouting or trying to make any kind of point, it's just easier for me to type in caps"! I've asked her to refrain lest she be mistaken for shouting.
I'm all for emphasis, annoying to read paragraphs in caps.
No, I wasn't thinking of you but it makes me think how each of us can interpret the cap lock thing differently. When I see the cap locks the first thing I think of is shouting but that could be an error on my part.
Quotations marks and bold type on words or groups of words for emphasis is more effective than "all caps" in my view
I have to increase my screen size to read it... Otherwise, I misread things. I have a tendency to do that anyway, but when the print is small, it becomes much worse.
I'm afraid that I've been guilty of using All caps only on specific words for emphasis-- but will try underlining or italics, as well.
We all can learn!
Often when I want to type a reply or comment the option bar does not turn up on my window, which is yellow instead of white. Then I have no choice but to use caps to emphasize a word.
Buzz, you have many technical difficulties, likely from where you live. I think that all of us can and will understand. You're always doing your best!
No problem. I don't think anyone has a problem with "all caps" for a word or two, for emphasis. That is what caps are for: emphasis.
But if an entire post is capitalized, then the whole thing is emphasized. That is "shouting".
If you speak in a normal voice, but shout one word in the midst of the others, then that word is emphasized. If you shout the entire text, then nothing is emphasized... and everyone near you is angry!
Well, my glasses are glued to my face 24/7, but sometimes, I have to increase the screen size, too!
I have to agree with everyone here who feel that they are being yelled at when the see all caps. I do, too! In fact, when I am typing on the net and I am yelling that is what I do... seldom as it may be.
I did very well, on spelling, (as in "i" before "e"), and capitalization, until I took German. They capitalize everything, and reverse the "i" before "e". It messed me up permanently!
Oh well, all I can do is try!
Here's another netiquette topic:
your, you're
they're, their, there
its, it's
Maybe my schooling (Baltimore public schools, and US Army dependent schools) was unusually Puritan... but I was taught that respect for what I write is a form of respect for the people who will read it... And conversely, indifference to proper English is a form of disrespect for one's readers. So I re-read before posting, and try to catch the inevitable typos.
When I see misuse of your/you're, I have a hard time imagining that the writer really doesn't know the difference. Seriously?? So I presume they don't care. Then I have great difficulty taking their ideas seriously.
Who is screwing up? Me? Or the person who doesn't make the difference between "your" and "you're"?
That's rather egotistical! You don't have the time to re-read and correct... but your reader has the time to struggle with your errors? That's precisely the "disrespect for the reader" that my teachers taught me to avoid...
Also... I'm 67... so I have even less time to correct your errors...
That doesn't explain why you don't re-read and correct, after you have finished your text and before you hit the "Add Reply" button.
Finally... I'm kinda stiff-necked, sometimes...
)
That's nonsense. I see this kind of error because I am paying attention. If I were just skimming, I might not notice.
Well... 'nuff said on this subject...
Not quite. Some people are dyslexic and although they are usually highly intelligent they have quite a few problems with reading and writing. Often people may not understand them and probably need to learn a little about dyslexia.
I'm not saying Mike is dyslexic, but I am saying you are prejudging people who don't write the way you expect them to without any obvious knowledge of the problems some people suffer who are usually highly intelligent.
Nothing personal, but maybe this will learn you some . LOL
Maybe you haven't seen some of the carpentry Mike has done. He doesn't leave the commas or apostrophes out when he produces such beauty from a pile of wood.
The mistake I make the most is "their and there" plus usually too many commas. And I probably make many I'm not aware I'm making. I wouldn't take it as criticism for someone to correct me in a kind manner, because I know I make mistakes all the time.
That's right MIG. From time to time I do unintentionally type "it's" instead of "its" when the possessive is required, so I'm forgiving when I see people type "loose" (which means "not tight") when they mean "lose" (which somewhat means "not being able to find"), and type "to" when they mean "too". Ain't English grand?
A dyslexic may confound "rouy" and "your"... but not "you're".
... but that wasn't really your subject, was it? Dyslexia as a pretext. That's kinda low...
As I can see you understand the basics. I used dyslexic, but there are other problems people have as well and "your" and "ruoy" are certainly a problem for some, but sometimes "your" looks like "oury". I guess my point was what is important to some may not be as important to others.
I'm not saying your teacher was wrong. In fact I think that was something that stuck with you which was a good lesson.
Each of us have our good qualities and "there" and "their" are way down the line when it comes to importance to me. Obviously they mean much more to you.
You're welcome to help me with my writing skills any time. I told Buzz the same thing and he has helped me at times. I guess it is all in the manner it is delivered.
I here you!!!
Especially Twitter and texting. I thing texting is the worst.
"That's precisely the "disrespect for the reader" that my teachers taught me to avoid..."
and just what did your teachers teach you about spamming meme's on other peoples articles when you threw a tantrum a while back.....(this is where 4 emoticons ((ROFLMAO, ROFLMAO, ROFLMAO, ROFLMAO))are suppose to be but are not allowed, so just imagine them when saying Punctuation cop.....)
I was just demonstrating a concentrated version of the behavior of a bunch of other folks around here.
You know, like recalling a totally irrelevant event -- stirring the pot uselessly.
Your rite. Its know problem wen people cant reed watt you right.
I make mistakes, all the time-- I try not to, but sometimes, it happens... I think if we try, that's all anyone can ask of us!
Eye no.
That's right. Typos happen to all of us and it's really a cheap shot for someone to grab one to one and use it against the poster. This is not school English class and most of the time when there is a misspelling or typo the person reading it knows damn well what you meant and should leave the typos alone. It's petty and childish.
Perhaps your right!
(Or should I say "perhaps your write"?).
I could be wrong, but I think they really don't know the difference. Standards in the pubic schools in this country have plummeted in recent years.
Well, if you see nothing wrong with it, and no-one has ever complained about it-- why bring it up? Why does it trouble you? Or should I say "WHY DOES IT TROUBLE YOU"?
Many sites have a rule against "self-promotion". And apparenty few people understand it.
I've often linked to something I posted on the same site-- and have been attacked as violating the ruLe against "self-promotion. But its not a violation to link to something you wrote on the same site.
Also, its obviously not a violation to link to something someone else wrote on an external site (in fact, that's what "seeding" is).
The rule only applies to linking to your own external site (if you have one).
Why is this a rule? Because site owners want more traffic, more time each person spends on the site, more page views, etc.If you keep linking to an external site you own, it drives traffic away fro the original site-- owners don't want that.
However, if you link to something you wrote on the same site its OK-- because that doesn't drive traffic off-site.
But actually links to related info are great-- in fact the invention of these "hyperlinks" is one of the factors causing to web to grow so fast, and be so useful.
The rules of proper usage have relaxed on the 'net. Perhaps too much so-- as I am sure your aware of. Heh
At this point I think almost anything goes-- as long as the site owner/admins and other users don't mind.
People often use all caps for emphasis. Or underlining. Or boldface for emphasis. Or even colour. But, if you really want to be correct, none of those four methods should be used in the body (headlines are another story-- bold and/or all caps are OK. Also subheadings-- if you want to use a "headline" at the beginning of each section. Some people wuld allow underlining for this-- but its really not proper.).
Whoa-- wait a minute! if we can't use all caps, bold, colour or underlining for emphasis, what can we use? Well, "proper usage" allows one thing, and only one thing to be used for emphasis-- italics.
Some people feel italics aren't strong enough. But if you start using all caps or bod in the body, inevitably you will tend to use it more and more. And then it actually starts to loose impact.
Underlining: On a computer (or for that matter in printed material)its incorrect. I believe its a throw back to the days of typewriters. Typewriters were mechanical, not electronic, so they didn't allow for the flexibility of electronic devices such as computers-- however , if memory serves--nyou could underline.
So that's part of "proper usage". But on the Internet, anything goes-- as long as the people your (heh) interacting with don't mind. (And in addition to formatting, that also goes for spelling errors, grammatical errors, etc.) In some ways the Internet is very democrartic--there are no longer any standard rules-- the only rues are those created by consensus of users on that site.(or the site owners if they're dictatorial).
And perhaps some make these horrific mistakes because English is their second or third language. Or, they didn't have to opportunity to attend a decent school, but want to be a part of NT, or any site.
Does their spelling and punctuation really mean that much to the members here? If so, why?
Don't bitch about it until you've walked a mile in their shoes.
I don't think so. It's easy to spot a non-English-speaker, because of misuse of general vocabulary -- not just homonyms. And I like to think that people are a lot more understanding of such cases. In fact, when I spot a non-English-speaker, I make an extra effort to think about their posts, because I know that their ideas may not be expressed ideally.
Already explained this...
Been there, done that. I did not learn French as a child, but as an adult -- long after the age when learning languages is more or less automatic. I spent quite a few years as "the guy who talks funny". I still have an accent, and always will, but my vocabulary and grammar are better than most native-born.
So, yes... I have walked that mile.
I disagree Bob, I grew up speaking three languages. English was not spoken at home. So it wasn't my first language.
I too have an accent, but it's with English.
This whole thing about worrying or complaining about a persons spelling or punctuation is IMO, nonsense.
I would much rather have a conversation where the idea is the focus, not the spelling.
Marcee Bob, and yes it's spelled correctly, since it's in the Michif/Cree language.
The thing is, Kavika... Your written English is excellent. So you are yourself the proof that "second language" is not a hindrance. I wonder if those of use who have made an effort are not more aware than those who have learned by osmosis and happenstance...
Did you know that "mersi" means "thank you" in Farsi, too?
Yeah, the Grammar Nazi's can really ruin a good thought pattern... It's distracting.
Some of us are just not as adept as others. Live and let live...
When reading this, I was reminded of what Ross said to Rachel on Friends. Rachel had written an 18 page letter to Ross, asking him to take responsibility for their breakup... That didn't work! As he was leaving, Ross said, "Y-o-u-r is your . Y-o-u apostrophe r-e is you are !" (Rachel's comeback was also classic, "Just you so know, it doesn't happen to everybody, it's not that common, and it is a big deal!")
Perhaps I am Bob, but I never forget where I came from, and how many struggled with the language, and still do. Lack of decent schools was a major contributor.
With that, I have an appreciation of what they have/are going through. Yetthey, in many ways, have conquered otherobstacles in their lives. They also want to be able to communicate in both the real world, and the internet world.
I choose to let them, and encourage them, to the best of my ability.
I did not know that mersi means thank you in Farsi. I learned something today.
Are you aware of the Mitchif/Cree language. It is a combination of Cree, Ojibwe and French. It also known as ''Metis''
"Mtis" is a word that has different meanings in Quebec and France. In Quebec, it is a person of mixed European / Native American blood. In France (where there aren't many Native Americans
) ), it means a person of mixed European / Caribbean blood... with Caribbean being already pretty mixed!
The word brings to mind a song by Julien Clerc (himself a mtis) extolling the beauty of a mtisse.
Let's not misunderstand. There is a huge difference between mistakes made by someone who doesn't know any better, and mistakes made by someone who doesn't give a damn. The first must be accepted, and the person encouraged. The second... not so much...
Metis means the same through out Canada and the northern US, mixed blood. Either Cree, Ojibwe and French, or in some instances British. At one point in time we were called Bois-Brules, which is considered very offensive.
The song ''Red River Valley'' was written by a Mitchif women to her British lover, just as the Michif/Metis war was to start in Manitoba.
Many people believe that the song is about the Red River in Texas, not so. The original words of the song has some Michif words in it.
''Let's not misunderstand. There is a huge difference between mistakes made by someone who doesn't know any better, and mistakes made by someone who doesn't give a damn. The first must be accepted, and the person encouraged. The second... not so much...'' Agreed.
I had trouble finding the etymology of "Bois-brl". The French version of Wikipedia says that it refers to the mtis' skin color. The term seems to have endured into the early 20th century.
Interesting history...
The history of the Metis people is well worth the time to read.
Louis Riel, considered the father/founder of Manitoba and led various wars against Canada was hung by the British. He is either a hero or a traitor in Canada, depending on who you talk to.
I've never read anything directly, but I like historical fiction, and have read quite a few books that touched on the second half of the 18th century. Very complicated times! Alliances were... flexible...