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Robert Mueller Did Not Merely Reject the Trump-Russia Conspiracy Theories. He Obliterated Them.

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  badfish-hd-h-u  •  5 years ago  •  49 comments

Robert Mueller Did Not Merely Reject the Trump-Russia Conspiracy Theories. He Obliterated Them.

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



THE TWO-PRONGED CONSPIRACY THEORY   that has dominated U.S. political discourse   for almost three years   – that (1) Trump, his family and his campaign conspired or coordinated with Russia to interfere in the 2016 election, and (2) Trump is beholden to Russian President Vladimir Putin — was not merely rejected today by   the final report   of Special Counsel Robert Mueller. It was obliterated: in an undeniable and definitive manner.

The key fact is this: Mueller – contrary to weeks of false media claims – did not merely issue a narrow, cramped, legalistic finding that there was insufficient evidence to indict Trump associates for conspiring with Russia and then proving their guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. That would have been devastating enough to those who spent the last two years or more   misleading people to believe   that conspiracy convictions of Trump’s closest aides and family members were inevitable. But his mandate was much broader than that: to state what did or did not happen.

That’s precisely what he did: Mueller, in addition to concluding that evidence was insufficient to charge any American with crimes relating to Russian election interference, also stated emphatically in numerous instances that there was no evidence – not merely that there was insufficient evidence to obtain a criminal conviction – that key prongs of this three-year-old conspiracy theory actually happened. As Mueller himself put it: “in some instances, the report points out the absence of evidence or conflicts in the evidence about a particular fact or event.”

With regard to Facebook ads and Twitter posts from the Russia-based Internet Research Agency, for example, Mueller could not have been more blunt: “The investigation   did not identify evidence   that any U.S. persons knowingly or intentionally coordinated with the IRA’s interference operation” (emphasis added). Note that this exoneration includes not only Trump campaign officials but all Americans:


To get a further sense for how definitive the Report’s rejection is of the key elements of the alleged conspiracy theory, consider Mueller’s discussion of efforts by George Papadopoulos, Joseph Misfud and and “two Russian nationals” whereby they tried “to arrange a meeting between the Campaign and Russian officials” to talk about how the two sides could work together to disseminate information about Hillary Clinton. As Mueller puts it: “No meeting took place.”

Several of the media’s most breathless and hyped “bombshells” were dismissed completely by Mueller. Regarding   various Trump officials’ 2016 meetings   with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak, Mueller said they were “brief, public and nonsubstantive.” Concerning the much-hyped change to GOP platform regarding Ukraine, Mueller wrote that the “evidence does not establish that one campaign official’s efforts to dilute a portion of the Republican platform was undertaken at the behest of candidate Trump or Russia,” and further noted that such a change was consistent with Trump’s publicly stated foreign policy view ( one shared by Obama ) to avoid provoking gratuitous conflict with the Kremlin over arming Ukrainians. Mueller also characterized a   widely hyped “meeting”   between   then-Senator Jeff Sessions and Kislyak  as one that did not “include any more than a passing mention of the presidential campaign.”

Regarding one of the most-cited pieces of evidence by Trump/Russia conspiracists – that Russia tried once Trump was nominated to shape his foreign policy posture toward Russia – Mueller concluded that there is simply no evidence to support it:


In other crucial areas, Mueller did not go so far as to say that his investigation “did not identify evidence” but nonetheless concluded that his 22-month investigation “did not establish” that the key claims of the conspiracy theory were true. Regarding alleged involvement by Trump officials or family members in the Russian hacks, for instance, Mueller explained: “the investigation did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.”


As for the overarching maximalist conspiracy – that Trump and/or members of his family and campaign were controlled by or working for the Russian government – Mueller concluded that this belief simply lacked the evidence necessary to prosecute anyone for it:


 

And Mueller’s examination of all the so-called “links” between Trump campaign officials and Russia that the U.S. media has spent almost three years   depicting as “bombshell” evidence   of criminality met the same fate: the evidence could not, and did not, establish that any such links constituted “coordination” or “conspiracy” between Trump and Russia:


Perhaps most amazingly, even low-level, ancillary, hangers-on to the Trump campaign that even many Russiagate skeptics thought might end up being charged as Russian agents were not.

All the way back in March, 2017,   in reporting that even anti-Trump intelligence officials were warning Democrats   that there was no solid evidence of a Trump/Russia conspiracy, I predicted that the appointment of a Special Counsel (which I vehemently favored) would likely end up finding evidence of financial impropriety by Paul Manafort unrelated to the 2016 election, as well as a possible indictment of someone like Carter Page for acting in concert with the Russian government:


But so vacant is the Mueller investigation when it comes to supporting any of the prevailing conspiracy theories that it did not find even a single American whom it could indict or charge with illegally working for Russia, secretly acting as a Russian agent, or conspiring with the Russians over the election –   not even Carter Page . That means that even long-time Russiagate skeptics such as myself  over-estimated   the level of criminality and conspiracy evidence that Robert Mueller would find:


In sum, Democrats and their supporters had the exact prosecutor they all agreed was the embodiment of competence and integrity in Robert Mueller. He assembled a team of prosecutors and investigators that countless media accounts heralded as the   most aggressive and adept   in the nation. They had subpoena power, the vast surveillance apparatus of the U.S. government at their disposal, a demonstrated willingness to imprison anyone who lied to them, and unlimited time and resources to dig up everything they could.

The result of all of that was that   not a single American   – whether with the Trump campaign or otherwise – was charged or indicted on the core question of whether there was any conspiracy or coordination with Russia over the election. No Americans were charged or even accused of being controlled by or working at the behest of the Russian government. None of the key White House aides at the center of the controversy who  testified for hours and hours   – including Donald Trump, Jr. or Jared Kushner – were charged with any crimes of any kind, not even perjury, obstruction of justice or lying to Congress.

These facts are fatal to the conspiracy theorists who have drowned U.S. discourse for almost three years with a dangerous and distracting fixation on a fictitious espionage thriller involved unhinged claims of sexual and financial blackmail, nefarious infiltration of the U.S. Government by familiar foreign villains, and election cheating that empowered an illegitimate President. They got the exact prosecutor and investigation that they wanted, yet he could not establish that any of this happened and, in many cases, established that it did not.

THE ANTI-CLIMACTIC ENDING   of the Mueller investigation is particularly stunning given how broad Mueller’s investigative scope ended up being, extending far beyond the 2016 election into years worth of Trump’s alleged financial dealings with Russia (and, obviously, Manafort’s with Ukraine and Russia). There can simply be no credible claim that Mueller was, in any meaningful way, impeded by scope, resources or topic limitation from finding anything for which he searched.

Despite efforts today by long-time conspiracist theorists to drastically move goalposts so as to claim vindication, the historical record could not be clearer that Mueller’s central mandate was to determine whether crimes were committed by Trump officials in connection with alleged Russian interference in the election. The first paragraph of   the New York Times article   from May, 2017, announcing Mueller’s appointment, leaves no doubt about that:

The Justice Department appointed Robert S. Mueller III, a former F.B.I. director, as special counsel on Wednesday   to oversee the investigation into ties between President Trump’s campaign and Russian officials , dramatically raising the legal and political stakes in an affair that has threatened to engulf Mr. Trump’s four-month-old presidency.

As recently as one month ago, former CIA Director and current NBC News analyst John Brennan was confidently predicting that Mueller could not possibly close his investigation without first indicting a slew of Americans for criminally conspiring with Russia over the election, and specifically predicted that Trump’s family members would be included among those so charged:




Obviously, none of that happened. Nor were any of the original accusations that launched this three-year-long mania — from an accusatory August, 2016 online commercial from the Clinton campaign — corroborated by the Mueller Report

:Indeed, so many of the most touted media “bombshells” claiming to establish Trump/Russia crimes have been proven false by this report. Despite an extensive discussion of Paul Manafort’s activities, nothing in the Report even hints, let alone states, that he ever visited Julian Assange in the Ecuadorian Embassy, let alone visited him three times, including during the 2016 election. How the Guardian could justify still not retracting  that false story  is mystifying.

Faring even worse is the   Buzzfeed bombshell   from January claiming that “President Donald Trump directed his longtime attorney Michael Cohen to lie to Congress about negotiations to build a Trump Tower in Moscow” and that “Cohen also told the special counsel that after the election, the president personally instructed him to lie — by claiming that negotiations ended months earlier than they actually did — in order to obscure Trump’s involvement.” Mueller himself responded to the story by insisting it was false, and his Report directly contradicts it, as it makes clear that Cohen told Mueller the exact opposite:


Equally debunked is   CNN’s major blockbuster   by Jim Sciutto, Carl Bernstein, and Marshall Cohen from last July that “Michael Cohen, President Donald Trump’s former personal attorney, claims that then-candidate Trump knew in advance about the June 2016 meeting in Trump Tower.” The Mueller Report says the exact opposite: that Cohen had no knowledge of Trump’s advanced knowledge.

And the less said about the Steele Dossier, pee-pee tapes,   secret meetings in Prague , and indescribably unhinged claims like this one, the better:


But beyond the gutting of these core conspiracy claims is that Mueller’s investigation probed areas far beyond the initial scope of Trump/Russia election-conspiring, and came up empty. Among other things, Mueller specifically examined Trump’s financial dealings with Russia to determine whether that constituted incriminating evidence of corrupt links:

Because Trump’s status as a public figure at the time was attributable in large part to his prior business and entertainment dealings, this Office investigated whether a business contact with Russia-linked individuals and entities during the campaign period—the Trump Tower Moscow project, see Volume I, Section IV.A.1, infra—led to or involved coordination.

Indeed, Mueller’s examination of Trump’s financial dealings with Russia long pre-dates the start of the Trump campaign, going back several years before the election:


Mueller additionally made clear that he received authorization to investigate numerous Americans for ties to Russia despite their not being formally associated with the Trump campaign, including Michael Cohen and Roger Stone. And regarding Cohen, Mueller specifically was authorized to investigate any attempts by Cohen to “receive funds from Russia-backed entities.” None of this deep diving to other individuals or years of alleged financial dealings with Russian resulted in any finding that Trump or any of his associates were controlled by, or corruptly involved with, the Russian government.

Then there is the issue of Manafort’s relationship with the Ukrainians, and specifically his providing of polling data to Konstantin Kilimnik, an episode which Trump/Putin conspiracist Marcy Wheeler, along with   many others particularly hyped over and over . To begin with, Mueller said his office “did not identify evidence of a connection” between that act and “Russian interference in the election,” nor did he “establish that Manafort otherwise coordinated with the Russian government on its election-inteference efforts”:


Also endlessly hyped by Wheeler and other conspiracists were the post-election contacts between Trump and Russia: as though it’s unusual that a major power would seek to build new, constructive relationships with a newly elected administration. Indeed, Wheeler went so far as to   cite these post-election contacts   to  turn her own source into the FBI on the ground that it constituted smoking gun evidence , an act for which she was  praised   by the Washington Post  (nothing Wheeler claimed about the evidence “related to the Mueller investigation” that she claimed to possess appears to be in the Mueller Report). Here again, the Mueller Report could not substantiate any of these claims:


The centerpiece of the Trump/Russia conspiracy – the Trump Tower meeting – was such a dud that Jared Kushner, halfway through the meeting, texted Manafort to declare the meeting “a waste of time,” and then instructed his assistant to call him so that he could concoct a reason to leave. Not only could Mueller not find any criminality in this meeting relating to election conspiring, but he could not even use election law to claim it was an illegal gift of something of value from a foreigner, because, among other things, the information offered was of so little value that it could not even pass the $2,000 threshold required to charge someone for a misdemeanor, let alone the $25,000 required to make it a felony.

Neither the Trump Tower meeting itself nor its participants – for so long held up as proof of the Trump/Russia conspiracy – could serve as the basis for any finding of criminality. Indeed, the key Trumpworld participants who testified about what happened at that meeting and its aftermath (Trump Jr. and Kushner) were not even accused by Mueller of lying about any of it.

NONE OF THIS IS TO SAY   that the Mueller Report exonerates Trump of wrongdoing. Mueller makes clear, for instance, that the Trump campaign not only knew that Russia was interested in helping it win the election but was happy to have that help. There’s clearly nothing criminal about that. One can debate whether it’s unethical for a presidential campaign to have dirt about its opponent released by a foreign government, though anyone who wants to argue that has to reconcile that with the fact that the DNC had a   contractor working with the Ukrainian government   to help Hillary Clinton win by feeding them dirt on Trump and Manafort, as well as a paid operative named Christopher Steele (remember him?) working with Russian officials to get dirt on Trump.


As is true of all investigations, Mueller’s team could not access all relevant information. Some was rendered inaccessible through encryption. Other information was deleted, perhaps with corrupt motives. And some witnesses lied or otherwise tried to obstruct the investigation. As a result, it’s of course possible that incriminating evidence existed that Mueller – armed with subpoena power, unlimited resources, 22 months of investigative work, and a huge team of top-flight prosecutors, FBI agents, intelligence analysts and forensic accountants – did not find.

But anything is   possible . It’s inherently possible that anyone is guilty of any crime but that the evidence just cannot be found to prove it. One cannot prove a negative. But the only way to rationally assess what happened is by looking at the evidence that is available, and that’s what Mueller did. And there’s simply no persuasive way – after heralding Mueller and his team as the top-notch investigators that they are and building up expectations about what this would produce – for any honest person to deny that the end of the Mueller investigation was a huge failure from the perspective of those who pushed these conspiracies.

Mueller certainly provides substantial evidence that Russians attempted to meddle in various ways in the U.S. election, including by hacking the DNC and Podesta and through Facebook posts and tweets. There is, however, no real evidence that Putin himself ordered this, as was claimed since mid-2016. But that Russia had done such things has been   unsurprising from the start , given how common it is for the U.S. and Russia to meddle in everyone’s affairs, including one another’s, but the scope and size of it continues to be minute in the context of overall election spending:

To reach larger U.S. audiences, the IRA purchased advertisements from Facebook that promoted the IRA groups on the newsfeeds of U.S. audience members. According to Facebook, the IRA purchased over 3,500 advertisements, and the   expenditures totaled approximately $100,000 .

The section of Mueller’s report on whether Trump criminally attempted to obstruct the investigation is full of evidence and episodes that show Trump being dishonest, misleading, and willing to invoke potentially corrupt tactics to put an end to it. But ultimately, the most extreme of those tactics were not invoked (at times because Trump’s aides refused), and the actions in which Trump engaged were simply not enough for Mueller to conclude that he was guilty of criminal obstruction.

As Mueller himself concluded, a reasonable debate can be conducted on whether Trump tried to obstruct his investigation with corrupt intent. But even on the case of obstruction, the central point looms large over all of it: there was no underlying crime established for Trump to cover-up.

All criminal investigations require a determination of a person’s   intent , what they are thinking and what their goal is. When the question is whether a President sought to kill an Executive Branch investigation – as Trump clearly wanted to do here – the determinative issue is whether he did so because he genuinely believed the investigation to be an unfair persecution and scam, or whether he did it to corruptly conceal evidence of criminality.

That Mueller could not and did not establish any underlying crimes strongly suggests that Trump acted with the former rather than the latter motive, making it virtually impossible to find that he criminally obstructed the investigation.

THE NATURE OF OUR POLITICAL DISCOURSE   is that nobody ever needs to admit error because it is easy to confine oneself to strictly partisan precincts where people are far more interested in hearing what advances their agenda or affirms their beliefs than they are hearing the truth. For that reason, I doubt that anyone who spent the last three years pushing utterly concocted conspiracy theories will own up to it, let alone confront any accountability or consequences for it.

But certain facts will never go away no matter how much denial they embrace. The sweeping Mueller investigation ended with  zero indictments of zero Americans   for conspiring with Russia over the 2016 election. Both Donald Trump, Jr. and Jared Kushner – the key participants in the Trump Tower meeting – testified for hours and hours yet were never charged for perjury, lying or obstruction, even though Mueller proved how easily he would indict anyone who lied as part of the investigation. And this massive investigation simply did not establish any of the conspiracy theories that huge parts of the Democratic Party, the intelligence community and the U.S. media spent years encouraging the public to believe.

Those responsible for this can refuse to acknowledge wrongdoing. They can even claim vindication if they want and will likely be cheered for doing so.

But the contempt in which the media and political class is held by so much of the U.S. population – undoubtedly a leading factor that led to Trump’s election in the first place – will only continue to grow as a result, and deservedly so. People know they were scammed, that their politics was drowned for years by a hoax. And none of that will go away no matter how insulated media and political elites in Washington, northern Virginia, Brooklyn, and large West Coast cities keep themselves, and thus hear only in-group affirmation while blocking out all of that well-earned scorn.

Correction : A paragraph was originally included that misread   a tweet  from earlier today by the New York Times’ Kenneth Vogel, in which he asserted that the Mueller Report confirmed, not negated, the New York Times’ original, now-retracted report about Paul Manafort. In that tweet, Vogel was suggesting that the NYT’s retraction was wrong (as Marcy Wheeler argued), not that the original story was wrong. That paragraph, which also critiqued Wheeler’s analysis of the New York Times’ retraction, was in error and was deleted almost immediately after publication of this article.


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It Is ME
Masters Guide
4  It Is ME    5 years ago

Mark Penn has been saying the same thing for awhile, so he says !

But he's not really on Hill's Staff anymore, so, guess he's free to tell the truth now too.jrSmiley_13_smiley_image.gif

Weird, the conversations that come out when the Clintons are diminished in power !

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
5  Ender    5 years ago

The report basically said they used each other.

The trump campaign was still using the Russian help.

And yes, Russia was meddling in the election.

It was also said that he couldn't get any info from trump as the questions he did answer he either said he didn't remember or the answers were so muddled that no conclusion could come of them.

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
5.1  It Is ME  replied to  Ender @5    5 years ago
The trump campaign was still using the Russian help.

They/He Did ?

I swear the report said "No-One" ! Did I miss something ?

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
5.1.2  It Is ME  replied to  Release The Kraken @5.1.1    5 years ago

This is a glossy part for some. They just see "At Times"....and the name "TRUMP". Nothing more....nothing less ! jrSmiley_15_smiley_image.gif

"But ultimately, the most extreme of those tactics were not invoked (at times because Trump’s aides refused), and the actions in which Trump engaged were simply not enough for Mueller to conclude that he was guilty of criminal obstruction.

It's like those "Pure-at-hearts" still screaming, never got mad before. jrSmiley_80_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
5.1.3  Ender  replied to  It Is ME @5.1    5 years ago
WASHINGTON — The Russian government undertook a "sweeping and systematic" campaign to help Donald Trump win the White House in 2016, believing it would benefit from his presidency, and found campaign aides eager to benefit from their help, special counsel Robert Mueller  concluded in a report  released Thursday.

"The investigation established multiple links between Trump campaign officials and individuals tied to the Russian government," the more than 400-page  report  says.

In perhaps the best-known example, Trump aides including his eldest son, Donald Trump Jr., met with a Russian lawyer who had promised damaging information about Trump's Democratic rival, Hillary Clinton. Trump Jr. enthusiastically accepted the meeting, after he was told the session was the idea of the "crown prosecutor of Russia," the report says.

Mueller's team looked into whether that meeting violated federal election laws barring contributions from foreign nations. But prosecutors ultimately decided they could not meet the high burden of proof because of questions about whether Trump's associates acted "willfully." Prosecutors also concluded that it would be difficult to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the value of the promised information about Clinton exceeded the threshold for a criminal violation.

Russians posed as Americans, using stolen identities as they attempted to coordinate with members of the Trump campaign. They staged dozens of rallies that supported Trump and disparaged Clinton at several key states. They created thousands of fake social media accounts and groups that targeted divisive issues, supported Trump and disparaged Clinton. The accounts attracted hundreds of thousands of followers — and were cited or retweeted by several Trump campaign officials and surrogates, including Trump Jr., Eric Trump, Kellyanne Conway and Flynn, who peddled voter fraud allegations and accusations that Clinton mishandled classified information as secretary of State.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
5.1.4  XXJefferson51  replied to  It Is ME @5.1.2    5 years ago

Let them howl at the moon! jrSmiley_13_smiley_image.gifjrSmiley_13_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Don Overton
Sophomore Quiet
5.1.5  Don Overton  replied to  XXJefferson51 @5.1.4    5 years ago

[delete]

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
5.1.6  Ender  replied to  Release The Kraken @5.1.1    5 years ago
Shortly before he released the special counsel’s redacted report on Thursday, Atty. Gen. William Barr announced the document said President Trump’s campaign had not “conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.”
But Barr omitted the first part of that sentence from Robert S. Mueller III’s report. The special counsel wrote that Trump’s campaign “expected it would benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian efforts.”

It also was a pointed reminder of Trump’s willingness to seek any advantage against Hillary Clinton, even if help came from a hostile foreign government conducting an illegal intelligence operation on American soil.

Indeed, the first page of the report described Moscow’s efforts to help Trump and undermine Clinton as “sweeping and systemic,” undermining Trump’s repeated claims that Russia had nothing to do with his unexpected White House victory.

At one point, Russian operatives helped organize a political rally with unwitting voters in Florida. After it was over, Trump’s Facebook page shared photos from the event with the message, “THANK YOU for your support Miami!” The Russians then forwarded Trump’s praise to other conservative activists.

In written answers to questions from the special counsel’s office, Trump denied that he had urged Moscow to hack U.S. computers. The statement, he said, was made “in jest and sarcastically, as was apparent to any objective observer.”

Mueller made clear that the Kremlin-backed team didn’t catch the supposed joke.

“Within approximately five hours of Trump’s statement,” the report said, Russian military intelligence tried to hack Clinton’s personal office for the first time.

Strange that some will deny things that are in the report.

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
5.1.7  It Is ME  replied to  XXJefferson51 @5.1.4    5 years ago
Let them howl at the moon!

I wish they'd stop ……. for a real "Change" !

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
5.1.8  It Is ME  replied to  Ender @5.1.3    5 years ago

The "30 million dollar Investigation"....not the freebie USA Today Investigation....SAID:

NO COLLUSION BY ANY AMERICANS !

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
5.1.9  Ender  replied to  It Is ME @5.1.8    5 years ago

I said nothing about collusion. I am saying a symbiotic relationship.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
5.1.10  Sean Treacy  replied to  Ender @5.1.3    5 years ago
, met with a Russian lawyer who had promised damaging information about Trump's Democratic rival, Hillary Clinton. Trump Jr. enthusiastically accepted the meet

I wonder how this Russian lawyer, and Fusion GPS client, was in the country. 

I wonder how Mueller managed to overlook who this Russian lawyer met with before and after the Trump tower meeting. 

At the end of the day the allegation is Trump wanted to benefit from dirt Russia had on Clinton. Like Clinton did to him. 

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
5.1.11  It Is ME  replied to  Ender @5.1.9    5 years ago
I am saying a symbiotic relationship.

Oh.....now we're into using the word symbiosis ?

Just another word for "Colluding" ?

Or is that like Beto's "Collaboration" as a go-to now ?

It's fun seeing what "Word" becomes popular now !

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
5.1.12  Ender  replied to  Sean Treacy @5.1.10    5 years ago
was in the country

A visa.

She was at a dinner with lawyers about a case she was involved in. One which she was later charged with obstruction.

Tying Hillary to that is a stretch.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
5.1.13  Ender  replied to  It Is ME @5.1.11    5 years ago

So my words are popular now? Who knew.

So instead of debating what I have been saying you attack words used.

I am surprised you are not copying and pasting trump's own tweets as they seem to be all you are saying.

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
5.1.14  Ronin2  replied to  Ender @5.1.12    5 years ago

Mueller was supposed to go after anyone involved with the Russians on either side- he didn't, period. Of course he also didn't question how the FISA warrants were obtained, or if what he was doing was even legal or not; but that would have derailed him from his get Trump at all costs agenda.

Two questions that need to be asked before all others.

Carter Page, all of that investigation, and jack shit of nothing on him. He was the main reason for the FISA warrants to begin with. Were they legal? If they weren't, then none of the evidence gained from them is legal.  Which leads to the illegal spying of an administration on an opponent, and outing of Trump campaign officials.  Too bad Obama still isn't in office to face his Nixonian music. He and those in his administration can still be prosecuted.  Time for a full investigation by the DOJ.

What role did the Fusion Steele Dossier play in the FISA warrants, since Carter Page is a dead end. Too bad the Steele Dossier named Page as a Russian spy as well. That should be strike two; but knowing the left they will scream, "well it had to be investigated to prove it wasn't true"; or "it hasn't be disproven".  Of course it can't be disproven if it never happened, you can't disprove a negative.  No amount of evidence provided it didn't happen will ever convince the anti Trumpers.

It will be fun watching competing investigations in the House and Senate. The House will investigate Trump for breathing, while the Senate investigates the legality of the FISA warrants, the outing of Trump officials by the Obama Administration, and the connection of the Hillary Campaign, Steele Dossier, Fusion, and the Russians/Ukrainians to what amounts to a political witch hunt.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
5.1.15  Greg Jones  replied to  Ender @5.1.9    5 years ago

Trump did not profit in any way from his various relationships with Putin or the Rooskies. There was no symbiotic relationship and none can be proven.

  All this alleged collusion crap do not change a single official vote. Whether it changed a few minds is irrelevant.

 
 
 
The Magic 8 Ball
Masters Quiet
5.1.16  The Magic 8 Ball  replied to  Greg Jones @5.1.15    5 years ago

the left might have found some meat to chew on, if only trump had exerted executive privilege over something in that report... 

the left got snookered again :)

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
5.1.17  It Is ME  replied to  Ender @5.1.13    5 years ago
So instead of debating what I have been saying you attack words used.

It's YOUR "New and Improved" word !

That's what the Liberals do ! If the first word used to trash some one or some thing is debunked and/or found to be a total LIE, they find a new way to word it. jrSmiley_76_smiley_image.gif

Like Climate Change/Warming/disruption, etc.....jrSmiley_88_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.2  Vic Eldred  replied to  Ender @5    5 years ago
It was also said that he couldn't get any info from trump as the questions he did answer he either said he didn't remember

Do you remember mundane events from 2016?

Did Mueller's team need Trump to answer questions they already had the answers to?

If the reports says they couldn't establish any evidence that any US citizen collaborated with Russia, then the motive for wanting to question the President becomes obvious - entrapment!

 
 
 
Don Overton
Sophomore Quiet
6  Don Overton    5 years ago
(deleted)
 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
6.1  It Is ME  replied to  Don Overton @6    5 years ago

deleted for context, by charger 383

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
6.1.1  Greg Jones  replied to  It Is ME @6.1    5 years ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
7  JBB    5 years ago

Here in reality Mueller's Report is a damning indictment of Trump and Co...

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
7.2  XXJefferson51  replied to  JBB @7    5 years ago

Democrats lied 🤥 , Obama spied.  

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
7.3  Vic Eldred  replied to  JBB @7    5 years ago
Here in reality Mueller's Report is a damning indictment of Trump and Co...

Where? What is the substance behind that statement?

Would it be the current progressive talking points that WH Counsel Don McGhan threatened to quit rather than fire Mueller. First of all, we have the facts of that incident because the President voluntarily shared all private notes with his attorney with Mueller. Second, although the President had that thought, he was convinced by McGhan and others not to go down that road and to the President's credit, he didn't. He avoided a legitimate charge of obstruction.

The President got no credit whatsoever for his unprecedented cooperation:

"WASHINGTON — The White House counsel, Donald F. McGahn II, has cooperated extensively in the special counsel investigation, sharing detailed accounts about the episodes at the heart of the inquiry into whether President Trump obstructed justice, including some that investigators would not have learned of otherwise, according to a dozen current and former White House officials and others briefed on the matter.

In at least three voluntary interviews with investigators that totaled 30 hours over the past nine months, Mr. McGahn described the president’s fury toward the Russia investigation and the ways in which he urged Mr. McGahn to respond to it. He provided the investigators examining whether Mr. Trump obstructed justice a clear view of the president’s most intimate moments with his lawyer.

Among them were Mr. Trump’s comments and actions during   the firing of the F.B.I. director , James B. Comey, and Mr. Trump’s   obsession with putting a loyalist in charge   of the inquiry, including his repeated urging of Attorney General Jeff Sessions   to claim oversight of it . Mr. McGahn was also   centrally involved   in Mr. Trump’s   attempts to fire the special counsel , Robert S. Mueller III, which investigators might not have discovered without him.

For a lawyer to share so much with investigators scrutinizing his client is unusual. Lawyers are rarely so open with investigators, not only because they are advocating on behalf of their clients but also because their conversations with clients are potentially shielded by attorney-client privilege, and in the case of presidents, executive privilege."




No, the Mueller report wasn't "damning" (notice the tightly controlled language of the left), it fell short of what one might expect of such an extensive and intensely executed investigation. "Part Two" is chock full of public statements the President made. Hardly what we expect from seasoned investigators.  Nope, "damning" is not the word that describes it!

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
7.4  Greg Jones  replied to  JBB @7    5 years ago

No, it is NOT!

 
 
 
Colour Me Free
Senior Quiet
8  Colour Me Free    5 years ago
But anything is possible. It’s inherently possible that anyone is guilty of any crime but that the evidence just cannot be found to prove it. One cannot prove a negative. But the only way to rationally assess what happened is by looking at the evidence that is available, and that’s what Mueller did. And there’s simply no persuasive way – after heralding Mueller and his team as the top-notch investigators that they are and building up expectations about what this would produce – for any honest person to deny that the end of the Mueller investigation was a huge failure from the perspective of those who pushed these conspiracies.

There certainly was a great deal of build up to the Mueller findings .. I am one that waited for the report to come out - this was a 2 year investigation deemed necessary because of the 'smoke' … ?  No smoking gun, nor fire was necessary to launch a full scale counterintelligence investigation into whether the Trump Campaign colluded / conspired with Russia to 'rig' the 2016 election ...

Comey himself in an interview with Lester Holt said he felt there was enough smoke to warrant a Special Council Counterintelligence Investigation (not a direct quote).. said investigation basically ended up yielding nothing, yet will keep the House busy for the next couple years with investigations....  

To reach larger U.S. audiences, the IRA purchased advertisements from Facebook that promoted the IRA groups on the newsfeeds of U.S. audience members. According to Facebook, the IRA purchased over 3,500 advertisements, and the expenditures totaled approximately $100,000.

Okay, here is a place I have an issue, and the more I read it repeated, the more strangely humorous it becomes … Russia purchased 100k worth of ads … Clinton and Trump paid out roughly 81 Million on Facebook ads .. but it is Russia's misinformation that swayed the election?

I thought the Mueller report would yield answers, not pages to be 'interpreted' .. 

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
8.1  Ender  replied to  Colour Me Free @8    5 years ago
roughly 81 Million on Facebook ads

Makes me wonder where they spend all this money. I could run television adds for six months, a year, and not even come close to that.

It makes me think they spend the bulk of the money on themselves, staffers etc.

IMO one of the main problems is loopholes and lack of election laws that allow unscrupulous behavior, from both sides. It has been able to continue for far to long. Of course hidden, dark money doesn't help either.

 
 
 
Colour Me Free
Senior Quiet
8.1.1  Colour Me Free  replied to  Ender @8.1    5 years ago
It makes me think they spend the bulk of the money on themselves, staffers etc.

Interesting thought process Ender .. I have always marveled at how much advertising money was supposedly spent .. not all ads play nation wide etc … I never thought about the scam that 'advertising' cost could be - but when I think about it, the 'Super pacs' seem to foot a big part of the bill..

Dark money is dangerous … Montanans voted against 'Citizens United' in our state .. we cannot enforce it, but the law is on the books .. at some point campaign finance needs to be gotten back under control ….

 
 
 
The Magic 8 Ball
Masters Quiet
8.2  The Magic 8 Ball  replied to  Colour Me Free @8    5 years ago
Russia purchased 100k worth of ads … Clinton and Trump paid out roughly 81 Million on Facebook ads .. but it is Russia's misinformation that swayed the election?

the obvious is kind of hard to ignore like that.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
9  bugsy    5 years ago

If Mueller and his gang of 19 angry Democrats, who had unlimited resources and could barge in on just about anyone's home or offices, without repercussion, could not find collusion or obstruction, what makes the mental midget arm of the democratic Congress think they can find anything?

Thankfully, this will be a disaster for them in 2020.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Guide
9.1  Thrawn 31  replied to  bugsy @9    5 years ago
[delete]

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
9.1.1  bugsy  replied to  Thrawn 31 @9.1    5 years ago

DELETED FOR CONTEXT, BY CHARGER 383

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
9.1.2  Greg Jones  replied to  bugsy @9.1.1    5 years ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
The Magic 8 Ball
Masters Quiet
9.2  The Magic 8 Ball  replied to  bugsy @9    5 years ago
what makes the mental midget arm of the democratic Congress think they can find anything?

you answered your own question... they are mental midgets.

I say, let them dig their own hole deeper, it will be easier to bury them that way.

cheers :)

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
10  Nerm_L    5 years ago

The most telling result of the Mueller investigation has been lack of indictments against Americans concerning the core issue of the investigation.  The indictments concerning the core focus of the investigation have all been against Russians.  While some have raised questions about the possibility of indicting a sitting President, that debate only concerns Donald Trump.  No one other than Donald Trump could make such an argument to avoid indictment. 

The investigations were not limited to the special counsel; the separate investigations conducted by Congress and intelligence agencies certainly extended the reach of the Mueller investigation.  Mueller had far more than his own team digging for evidence.  The lack of indictments resulting from the many concurrent investigations confirms that coordination, collusion, or conspiracy between the Trump campaign and Russian operatives simply did not happen.

The idea that Russian operatives were confident that Donald Trump would win the election is highly implausible.  Trump becoming President surprised everyone who had much better information concerning the election than did the Russians.  The media had reporters (operatives?) embedded in both campaigns and certainly had access to more information than the Russians could obtain.  IMO if the intent of the Russian misinformation campaign was to create discord then it would seem likely that Russians were targeting both campaigns.  To me it seems that the Mueller investigation only uncovered half the story.

 
 

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