Let me start by saying that to say that last nights GOT was a shocker, would be an understatement. I wanted to give fans a chance to discuss the show, and give any thoughts about possible outcomes, and any other thoughts.
Perrie, I went to your article from last week, and commented there. Barristan Selmy told the same thing to Dany, to her face, after she learned he was a King's Guard for her dad and for Robert. I thought that was a cool line to include.
I think the screenwriters have made mistakes trying to rush a finish to the series. The immaculate appearance of dozens of scorpion weapons with amazing dexterity, accuracy, power and rotating blade dragon piercing arrow heads was too over the top. Then Daeny taking out all of these scorpions with a single dragon offered a reciprocal hard-to-believe scenario.
But the worst mistake is to have Daeny sitting atop her dragon with the battle won, the surrender reached ... peace at last ... and then throw it all away burning down the city for literally no logical reason. Daeny could have flown directly to the Red Keep and killed Cersei. There was no reason to burn down King's Landing and all the innocent civilians. Makes no sense. These people did not even have a chance to reject her, they never knew her. So why take it out on them?
In the past, Daeny had reasons for her brutality. This was entirely gratuitous and represented an explicable major shift in the character. One more episode left, but I doubt the screenwriters will make this work. I think they just screwed up the story. Sure, this provides the means for Jon to take the throne and a battle in the last episode, but it does so with what seems to be an artificial transformation of one of the main characters.
I wonder how George R. R. Martin will write book 7 (the final book that he has not even started)? At this point the HBO series might as well be considered an alternate reality from George R. R. Martin's world.
Like I said, it was pure rage on her part. She didn't care about the people because she didn't think they loved her anyway. I don't consider the scorpions a big deal because I'm having a hard time with time references (how many years has it been in the Game of Thrones universe?).
And BF gave a good explanation on how the dragon was able to take out the scorpions.
But I must have counted at least 4 or 5 times when I thought Arya finally had her ticket punched.
Understood. My point is that the rage against the people and the town makes no sense. It would make sense if they had rejected her - they did not even have a chance to know her. She killed those people and destroyed King's Landing for no reason.
I think what the writers were trying to say is she didn't need a reason. She was pissed off mad and exacted her revenge.
She got the best of Cersei of which I'm glad. Cersei showed nothing but arrogance and stupidity right up until the moment she tried to flee the Red Keep. It was her downfall
Revenge against Cersei makes perfect sense. Destroying King’s Landing and its civilians (who also hate Cersei) does not. I would understand if upon surrender Daeny flew to the Red Keep to kill Cersei.
I agree it was pure rage on her part, but part of that rage is that she felt the people didn't love her. In all her last conquests the people loved her, so I think it is also a bit of an ego thing, which I find disappointing.
I think that Ayra has a purpose for the ending and that is why she is still alive.
Yeah, I know. Funny how the individual of that meme is not involved in this discussion. This article would be a perfect example for how people can analyze fictional characters.
Oh, you should read up on the people that dress up in furry costumes. Not related to any particular show, as far as I know. It's all the fault of mascots, I tell you! See what this has brought us to!
But I must have counted at least 4 or 5 times when I thought Arya finally had her ticket punched.
That last scene of her pulling herself out of the wall debris and dust should have had her look at the camera and then show one eye glow red... Skynet has come now that the blue eyed Night King has fallen!
I've agreed with the sentiment all season, and perhaps longer. I allowed myself to enjoy last night's episode though.
I agree, if they are going to have Dany burn everything down, maybe a battle between the opposing ground forces first, because the super weapon prevents Dany from getting close enough, until such time that the unsullied are able to take out the scorpions. Then, crazy rides in and scorches the earth, and everyone is like...WTF. Instead...hold my beer. We get a meme, instead of a work. Only 2 episodes left, we got no time for conflict.
They had me early though, when Varys repeats Barristan Selmy's line about the coin flip. Harking back to some old foreshadowing. Same as the dwarf's dreams, and Jenny's Song, Dany's trip through the house of the undying. Apparently, Dany is the savage giant in the castle built of snow, and Sansa is coming in to take out the mad queen?
I was less disappointed last night, than I was with 3 and 4. Maybe my expectations have diminished.
I totally agree about the rushing of the story and those scorpion weapons appearing suddenly. And how could Dani have missed those weapons the first time around and lose a dragon, and then take them out the second time around without any problem?
And again, I agree that Dani could have just taken out Cersei without killing the town folk. But she said she felt unloved by those people, and I think that was a big hint. Also, now everyone she has ever trusted is gone, so I think she is lost without her compasses.
I am not sure Jon will become King. Remember Theon's sister is also an heir to the throne and she is out there somewhere. Also, I think we will be facing Tyron's death since she said that she would not take any more betrayals from him, and he did let his brother go, knowing this possible outcome. I think he might have some bigger role to play as well as Arya.
Theon's sister Yara is an heir to the Pike throne, not the Iron Throne. I think Yara is now a forgotten character like many other characters the writers and producers left alongside the King's Road
They made a point of showing Yara going back this season, so I don't think she is out of the picture. And she had more right to the throne than Cersei, although she might just come to the aid of Jon.
Now I may be wrong. but the Lannister's were not a royal family, but the Greyjoys and the Targaryens were. The Lannisters were money lenders and people of influence, but not actually ever on any throne, right?
If that is true, then a Greyjoy would be more entitled, not that I see that happening.
Ok, I see your point. You're right. The Greyjoys were the "Kings" of the Iron Islands tho that was a title they made up for themselves. At one time or another a bunch of people called themselves kings, but I don't think the Lannisters as a family did that.
House Stark Torrhen Stark, King in the North. House Arryn Ronnel Arryn, King of Mountain and Vale. House Hoare Harren Hoare, King of the Isles and the Rivers. House Lannister Loren I Lannister, King of the Rock. House Gardener Mern IX Gardener, King of the Reach. House Baratheon Argilac Durrandon, the Storm King. House Martell Meria Martell, Princess of Dorne.
So one could argue that any descendant from the above houses could assume the throne if there is no obvious rightful heir.
They did not even know her. She earned the love of people in the past. Slaughtering her people before they even knew her makes no sense. I could see this if she had saved them and then they rejected her.
While I agree with you assessment Tig, that is not what she actually said. She said that the people didn't love her and I think this is a bit of an ego thing.
The writers have Daeny rejecting oppressed people before they even know her. This is a major change for her character to target and kill innocent people - especially those who also hate Cersei, and especially when there is no tactical advantage.
No doubt they rationalized this as madness emerging from the fact that no matter what she does the people will favor Jon.
I would have had her directing her rage at Cersei and her supporters.
So are you agreeing about killing the citizens? I am confused.
The citizens did not support Cersei:
TiG @4.3.3. - This is a major change for her character to target and kill innocent people - especially those who also hate Cersei, and especially when there is no tactical advantage.
I was beginning to think it was going to take a dragon to kill the Mountain.
I am not sure he is dead (half joking, no reason for the storyline to keep him going). A dagger through the brain and he pulls it out after pulling out a sword that went through his guts and not even bleeding?? WTF?
A dagger through the brain and he pulls it out after pulling out a sword that went through his guts and not even bleeding?? WTF?He fell at least 20 stories and in a fire pit. He has to be dead. Maybe he's only mostly dead
The writers have Daeny rejecting oppressed people before they even know her.
I think this is an aspect that I liked, and what kept me watching. I have never been a Dany fan. Although, truthfully, I could not really put my finger on what about the character I disliked...save now. I found myself begging her to twist off, for nothing more than to justify my dislike.
Two times I liked Dany. Astapor and last episode. (may actually be more, but those are the instances that stand out) Astapor, to me anyway, a little early foreshadowing of what she would do to get what she wanted, and if you disrespected her. She wants the throne, and all of Westeros, in her eyes, disrespected her, when they followed the usurper. The folks of Kings Landing being the worst of the lot. I never had a doubt that she would raze the city when she got there.
The folks of Kings Landing being the worst of the lot.
That is the part I do not get. The peasants of King's Landing have always been oppressed by the leaders of King's Landing. They hate Cersei too. They never did anything against Daeny. She was operating on the conclusion that they would support Jon over her. Likely true. But, like her past experiences, she must earn the love of her people. Burning the city alive is not the way to encourage the next generation to love her.
Thus, the best explanation is that she went fully insane while watching the city surrender. Her subsequent burning of the city was a gratuitous act of madness because it works against her own interests. Her anger would have been better served flying directly to the Red Keep to eliminate Cersei.
She snapped. Quickly. That is the best I can do to make sense of this episode.
Yeah, I'm working hard not to be overly critical. I agree, bells be damned, I'm pissed, Cersei must die, off to the red keep I go, would make more sense. Even if they want her to twist off, Cersei is the target, get her first...then maybe lose it on the rest of Kings Landing. That said, she crazy. Trying to find logic in the acts of a crazy person is folly.
The exploding walls, ineffective scorpions, Greyjoy's 3 mile swim to shore, complete waste of build up for the golden company, etc. all bug me more than how she arrived at madness though. Frankly, I was a little disappointed in the much anticipated battle between the Mountain and the Hound. I thought it would have been a nice touch to have Arya leave, then come back and try to save the Hound after the battle. Also, I'm still a bit upset with Bronn's appearance the previous episode. Not what I'd expect from Bronn. I'd expect him to seek double the offer from Tyrion, but not with the attitude he displayed. Seemed out of character and forced.
Still where I was last week. Sansa fulfills the prophecy of the white dwarf dreams told to Beric and Thoros, re: slaying the savage giant in the castle built of snow. I know it's book, but why would the show producers have Pod sing Jenny's Song? That song is important to the dwarf's visions.
In the end, no fan is safe. There are no winners in the game of thrones. They are truly attempting to subvert everyones expectations. We only thought we knew what a good story was or what a satisfying ending might be.
I'm still a bit upset with Bronn's appearance the previous episode. Not what I'd expect from Bronn. I'd expect him to seek double the offer from Tyrion, but not with the attitude he displayed. Seemed out of character and forced.
I fully agree. Bronn was clearly out of character.
They are truly attempting to subvert everyones expectations.
Indeed, and have done a great job all along. My disappointment is the lack of believeability in what seems to be a rush to the finish line.
What I didn't get, was Arya gave hat sheer Valyrian steel knife to Sansa before Sansa went down into the crypt before the battle of Winterfell yet isn't that what she used to kill the ice king? I could be remembering it wrong of course. Haha Just seemed like an inconsistency.
Yes Ayra killed the Night King with her Valyrian steel dagger — the one that Bran gave her. But what she handed to Sansa looked like a normal dragonglass dagger (see 1:08:42 and the original hand-off at 19:38).
So, I was watching Ep. 5, again, and my 6 yo comes in and starts watching with me. Probably can't do that with all GOT episodes, but that one? I think so. Regardless, if you have a 6 year old child available, I'd recommend re-watching. The commentary coming from my son was priceless. I'm always impressed with what the eyes of a young child catch. Never surprised by what comes out of the mouth though. Both comically genius, and pointed. Sad when a 6 year old takes offense at the assault on his intelligence.
She has always been kind of vicious. I found a good write up about the episode. They said this about her,
Remember Dany’s first instinct when Meereen was under bombardment by the slave cities in season 6? “I will crucify the masters,” Dany declared. “I will set their fleets afire. I will kill every last one of their soldiers and return their cities to the dirt. That’s my plan.” Tyrion talked her out of it. At the time we thought, Well, Dany probably didn’t really mean it . But she did. She’s said other things like this too along the way. In season 2, Dany likewise promised, “We will lay waste to armies and burn cities to the ground.” And in season 6, she asked the Dothraki to pledge to “kill my enemies in their iron suits and tear down their stone houses.” Time and again, we dismissed such talk as bluster. It wasn’t.
In a way she has always talked about destruction. She also crucified a bunch of people.
This part I didn't remember but it was very foreshadowing...
Remember that scene in season 2 in the House of the Undying? Dany had a vision of walking through the Red Keep. The ceiling was broken open and there was this white stuff falling into the throne room. We assumed that was snow and that winter had come to the South. In this episode, at long last, Dany really is in King’s Landing and the Red Keep really is being destroyed. But there’s no snow. We see that white stuff was actually ash, the ash that’s now raining across the city. Dany’s the queen of the ashes. So this turn was foreshadowed from the show’s very early days.
But Jon is a Targaryen too ... apparently Varys decided that it was clear that Jon wasn't going mad, but considering his age (at least in the books; not sure how old his character in the show is), it could be too soon to tell ....
He was a Targaryen, but he was raised as a Stark and his life was hard. This made him a different kind of person. He also never wanted to be king, which is another factor. He is not into the power, and ultimately, that is what this show is about; desire for power. Dani with all her bend the knee business of last season showed she was very much about power.
True, but if their insanity is hereditary, that may not matter.
The one thing I hate about this show is the direwolves. Kill off all the human characters, I don't care - but don't hurt the direwolves! Ghost is probably much safer at Winterfell than he would have been at King's Landing.
The one thing I hate about this show is the direwolves.
If I remember correctly, at the beginning of the books the direwolves were pretty much mythical creatures or they had become extinct. Then the Starks find puppies.
I believe I read somewhere that George has pretty much shrugged off the HBO direction and is doing his own thing. He does not seem to have any interest in following their lead.
I think that ending is now ruined for the HBO version. Wonder what George has in mind?
Well, we don't know the ending yet. And frankly if it had a perfect ending, I would have hated it. That is not life and despite bits of magic, these are still people with human flaws. If Daeny ends up Queen and hateful, it would make sense, since that is what she came from.
I think that the final ending for a series should leave the viewers satisfied.
But I was not talking about a happy ending anyway. My complaint is an illogical ending. At this point I have serious doubt that the writers can make this sensible.
But I was not talking about a happy ending anyway. My complaint is an illogical ending. At this point I have serious doubt that the writers can make this sensible.
Ah, well that is something else. But I do think they can give it a logical one, but not a satisfying one.
I "think" Ghost is one of the six dire wolves found in the 1st book by Robb Stark. I "believe" he was the last one found and Jon was the only person who heard him as they were leaving the dead mother.
Robb named his Grey Wind, Sansa called hers Lady, Arya called hers after some witch queen, Rickon called his Shaggydog, Jon, his Ghost, and Bran didn't get a chance to name his before Jaime pushed him out the window.
Kinda curious 'bout something. In the beginning of the book, Jon and Arya were a close as bread and butter - wonder what happened?
Don't you remember the scene when Jon and Arya were reunited (when Jon noticed that Arya still had Needle)? Nothing in the storyline suggests that their affection for each other would change from that.
Why do you think Arya, who had been a stealth ninja killing machine just two episodes earlier, was so ineffectual last night? It was like she was a completely different person this episode...
It looks to me like Jon Snow and Daenerys are headed for a final show down but I guess that was the way it was going to be even before the destruction of the King's Landing.
Arya had a killing spree along her way. She just about became an assassin. It kind of marks different paths people can take. Arya decided to let it all go and help people while Dany was consumed with vengeance.
The “right” death for Cersei, narratively speaking, is that she dies due to having made one terrible leadership decision after another — which is exactly what happens and Cersei is literally crushed by the collapsing weight of the building that symbolizes her power (not entirely unlike the way she blew up her enemies at the end of season 6).
Makes me think they were going for symbolism. Cersei was crushed by the weight of the crown and the weight of the decisions she has made and her lust for power. In the end, it all came crashing down.
I have this hunch that Arya will be wearing the crown of the Seven Kingdoms when the final "curtain" drops
I have a hunch she's going to be the new 'Queen slayer' killing Dany (because she has Sansa executed for treason) who has gone mad and fearful of all around her and Jon will become King but then be forced to arrest and convict Arya of Dany's assassination.
I have a hunch she's going to be the new 'Queen slayer' killing Dany (because she has Sansa executed for treason) who has gone mad and fearful of all around her and Jon will become King but then be forced to arrest and convict Arya of Dany's assassination.
As a ruler, Danerys has always been driven by emotion first, has always behaved immaturely and has always made terrible decisions.
She's been evolving as a power-mad Targeryan for several seasons. Just last week she demanded that the man she supposedly loves keep secret his rightful destiny. What more foreshadowing did we require?
I couldn't read all the comments (I'm on my lunch break.) but I do remember the Mother of Dragons burn a building full of Dothraki leaders, a slaver and two Tarly's prior to finding the second man she ever loved betrayed her. She was already broken before this battle.
Arya is the personification of Death on a pale horse going into the last episode. Will she survive? Will John? What's going in Winterfell?
So is Dani just another Targaryen, who is like a coin flip, as warned by Varis?
Perrie, I went to your article from last week, and commented there. Barristan Selmy told the same thing to Dany, to her face, after she learned he was a King's Guard for her dad and for Robert. I thought that was a cool line to include.
I thought it was a cool line too!
I think the screenwriters have made mistakes trying to rush a finish to the series. The immaculate appearance of dozens of scorpion weapons with amazing dexterity, accuracy, power and rotating blade dragon piercing arrow heads was too over the top. Then Daeny taking out all of these scorpions with a single dragon offered a reciprocal hard-to-believe scenario.
But the worst mistake is to have Daeny sitting atop her dragon with the battle won, the surrender reached ... peace at last ... and then throw it all away burning down the city for literally no logical reason. Daeny could have flown directly to the Red Keep and killed Cersei. There was no reason to burn down King's Landing and all the innocent civilians. Makes no sense. These people did not even have a chance to reject her, they never knew her. So why take it out on them?
In the past, Daeny had reasons for her brutality. This was entirely gratuitous and represented an explicable major shift in the character. One more episode left, but I doubt the screenwriters will make this work. I think they just screwed up the story. Sure, this provides the means for Jon to take the throne and a battle in the last episode, but it does so with what seems to be an artificial transformation of one of the main characters.
I wonder how George R. R. Martin will write book 7 (the final book that he has not even started)? At this point the HBO series might as well be considered an alternate reality from George R. R. Martin's world.
The writers and producers needed one last big splash to end the show.
I wish they had created a splash that was believable.
Like I said, it was pure rage on her part. She didn't care about the people because she didn't think they loved her anyway. I don't consider the scorpions a big deal because I'm having a hard time with time references (how many years has it been in the Game of Thrones universe?).
And BF gave a good explanation on how the dragon was able to take out the scorpions.
But I must have counted at least 4 or 5 times when I thought Arya finally had her ticket punched.
Understood. My point is that the rage against the people and the town makes no sense. It would make sense if they had rejected her - they did not even have a chance to know her. She killed those people and destroyed King's Landing for no reason.
I think what the writers were trying to say is she didn't need a reason. She was pissed off mad and exacted her revenge.
She got the best of Cersei of which I'm glad. Cersei showed nothing but arrogance and stupidity right up until the moment she tried to flee the Red Keep. It was her downfall
Revenge against Cersei makes perfect sense. Destroying King’s Landing and its civilians (who also hate Cersei) does not. I would understand if upon surrender Daeny flew to the Red Keep to kill Cersei.
I agree it was pure rage on her part, but part of that rage is that she felt the people didn't love her. In all her last conquests the people loved her, so I think it is also a bit of an ego thing, which I find disappointing.
I think that Ayra has a purpose for the ending and that is why she is still alive.
That's what I was hoping she was going to do was fly to the Red Keep, torch it, kill Cersei, then go have a cup of wine.
I knew something was wrong when she executed Varys
Arya had direct view of senseless carnage. No doubt she is after Daeny.
Something Sandor Clegane said to Arya about turning into him when he was trying to get her to leave.
And she looked at him and had an epiphany, I think. She thanked him and left.
Senseless carnage...now she knows what war is.
But ... but .... if these are mythical beings, why are you talking about their motives and actions?
(I couldn't resist!)
Apparently a bunch of people are learning Dothraki and Valyrian - just like a bunch of people learned Klingon.
Yeah, I know.
Funny how the individual of that meme is not involved in this discussion. This article would be a perfect example for how people can analyze fictional characters.
I really like Sandor. So misunderstood. I was sad to see him die although I knew it was inevitable.
Well, then I guess they could have said, "Heghlu'meH QaQ DaHjaj."
True enough, Tig.
But we all did this in English classes in high school... so there's that.
Isn't it, though
( Aside: yeah, it is amazing what some people will try to pass off as logic: 'how can you analyze that which you do not believe exists?' )
Well this article should make it perfectly obvious how one can (easily) analyze characters in a fictional story.
Oh, you should read up on the people that dress up in furry costumes. Not related to any particular show, as far as I know. It's all the fault of mascots, I tell you! See what this has brought us to!
People analyze books all the time. I see no difference with this.
Agreed
Only if there are a sufficient number of stallions to mount.
That last scene of her pulling herself out of the wall debris and dust should have had her look at the camera and then show one eye glow red... Skynet has come now that the blue eyed Night King has fallen!
I've agreed with the sentiment all season, and perhaps longer. I allowed myself to enjoy last night's episode though.
I agree, if they are going to have Dany burn everything down, maybe a battle between the opposing ground forces first, because the super weapon prevents Dany from getting close enough, until such time that the unsullied are able to take out the scorpions. Then, crazy rides in and scorches the earth, and everyone is like...WTF. Instead...hold my beer. We get a meme, instead of a work. Only 2 episodes left, we got no time for conflict.
They had me early though, when Varys repeats Barristan Selmy's line about the coin flip. Harking back to some old foreshadowing. Same as the dwarf's dreams, and Jenny's Song, Dany's trip through the house of the undying. Apparently, Dany is the savage giant in the castle built of snow, and Sansa is coming in to take out the mad queen?
I was less disappointed last night, than I was with 3 and 4. Maybe my expectations have diminished.
I totally agree about the rushing of the story and those scorpion weapons appearing suddenly. And how could Dani have missed those weapons the first time around and lose a dragon, and then take them out the second time around without any problem?
And again, I agree that Dani could have just taken out Cersei without killing the town folk. But she said she felt unloved by those people, and I think that was a big hint. Also, now everyone she has ever trusted is gone, so I think she is lost without her compasses.
I am not sure Jon will become King. Remember Theon's sister is also an heir to the throne and she is out there somewhere. Also, I think we will be facing Tyron's death since she said that she would not take any more betrayals from him, and he did let his brother go, knowing this possible outcome. I think he might have some bigger role to play as well as Arya.
Theon's sister Yara is an heir to the Pike throne, not the Iron Throne. I think Yara is now a forgotten character like many other characters the writers and producers left alongside the King's Road
They made a point of showing Yara going back this season, so I don't think she is out of the picture. And she had more right to the throne than Cersei, although she might just come to the aid of Jon.
How does Yara have more right to the throne than Cersei? Yara is a Greyjoy many houses removed from Barathion, Lannister, or Targaryen.
Of course, you have as much right to the throne as Cersei. Anybody has as much right to the throne as Cersei.
Now I may be wrong. but the Lannister's were not a royal family, but the Greyjoys and the Targaryens were. The Lannisters were money lenders and people of influence, but not actually ever on any throne, right?
If that is true, then a Greyjoy would be more entitled, not that I see that happening.
Ok, I see your point. You're right. The Greyjoys were the "Kings" of the Iron Islands tho that was a title they made up for themselves. At one time or another a bunch of people called themselves kings, but I don't think the Lannisters as a family did that.
Have you forgotten about Gendry Baratheon?
I mentioned that one time and someone told me that a bastard could not be king.
Well he's no longer a bastard, he's a Lord.
Remember that there were 7 kingdoms before Aegon the Conqueror united them all:
So one could argue that any descendant from the above houses could assume the throne if there is no obvious rightful heir.
Thanks for that list. I had forgotten what and where the 7 kingdoms were and who.
I kept telling Arya to go Storm's End and marry Gendry and have beautiful blue eyed babies
They did not even know her. She earned the love of people in the past. Slaughtering her people before they even knew her makes no sense. I could see this if she had saved them and then they rejected her.
While I agree with you assessment Tig, that is not what she actually said. She said that the people didn't love her and I think this is a bit of an ego thing.
The writers have Daeny rejecting oppressed people before they even know her. This is a major change for her character to target and kill innocent people - especially those who also hate Cersei, and especially when there is no tactical advantage.
No doubt they rationalized this as madness emerging from the fact that no matter what she does the people will favor Jon.
I would have had her directing her rage at Cersei and her supporters.
So are you agreeing about killing the citizens? I am confused.
I think he means Cerseis' guard and her advisers.
I was beginning to think it was going to take a dragon to kill the Mountain.
The citizens did not support Cersei:
Her supporters are those fighting to defend her.
I am not sure he is dead (half joking, no reason for the storyline to keep him going). A dagger through the brain and he pulls it out after pulling out a sword that went through his guts and not even bleeding?? WTF?
He fell at least 20 stories and in a fire pit. He has to be dead. Maybe he's only mostly dead
He'll be the new Knight King, LOL.
Oh that's nightmarely freakish!
Don't you mean knighmarishly?
LOL!
Burning their ancestors alive is not a great way to get the next generation to love her.
I think this is an aspect that I liked, and what kept me watching. I have never been a Dany fan. Although, truthfully, I could not really put my finger on what about the character I disliked...save now. I found myself begging her to twist off, for nothing more than to justify my dislike.
Two times I liked Dany. Astapor and last episode. (may actually be more, but those are the instances that stand out) Astapor, to me anyway, a little early foreshadowing of what she would do to get what she wanted, and if you disrespected her. She wants the throne, and all of Westeros, in her eyes, disrespected her, when they followed the usurper. The folks of Kings Landing being the worst of the lot. I never had a doubt that she would raze the city when she got there.
That is the part I do not get. The peasants of King's Landing have always been oppressed by the leaders of King's Landing. They hate Cersei too. They never did anything against Daeny. She was operating on the conclusion that they would support Jon over her. Likely true. But, like her past experiences, she must earn the love of her people. Burning the city alive is not the way to encourage the next generation to love her.
Thus, the best explanation is that she went fully insane while watching the city surrender. Her subsequent burning of the city was a gratuitous act of madness because it works against her own interests. Her anger would have been better served flying directly to the Red Keep to eliminate Cersei.
She snapped. Quickly. That is the best I can do to make sense of this episode.
Yeah, I'm working hard not to be overly critical. I agree, bells be damned, I'm pissed, Cersei must die, off to the red keep I go, would make more sense. Even if they want her to twist off, Cersei is the target, get her first...then maybe lose it on the rest of Kings Landing. That said, she crazy. Trying to find logic in the acts of a crazy person is folly.
The exploding walls, ineffective scorpions, Greyjoy's 3 mile swim to shore, complete waste of build up for the golden company, etc. all bug me more than how she arrived at madness though. Frankly, I was a little disappointed in the much anticipated battle between the Mountain and the Hound. I thought it would have been a nice touch to have Arya leave, then come back and try to save the Hound after the battle. Also, I'm still a bit upset with Bronn's appearance the previous episode. Not what I'd expect from Bronn. I'd expect him to seek double the offer from Tyrion, but not with the attitude he displayed. Seemed out of character and forced.
Still where I was last week. Sansa fulfills the prophecy of the white dwarf dreams told to Beric and Thoros, re: slaying the savage giant in the castle built of snow. I know it's book, but why would the show producers have Pod sing Jenny's Song? That song is important to the dwarf's visions.
In the end, no fan is safe. There are no winners in the game of thrones. They are truly attempting to subvert everyones expectations. We only thought we knew what a good story was or what a satisfying ending might be.
I fully agree. Bronn was clearly out of character.
Indeed, and have done a great job all along. My disappointment is the lack of believeability in what seems to be a rush to the finish line.
Oh well. Here is to hoping that Seth McFarlane gets a crack at it. I'd watch the Family Guy version.
What I didn't get, was Arya gave hat sheer Valyrian steel knife to Sansa before Sansa went down into the crypt before the battle of Winterfell yet isn't that what she used to kill the ice king? I could be remembering it wrong of course. Haha Just seemed like an inconsistency.
I am surprised he hasn't yet.
I thought that was just a spare dagger. Would have to go back and look.
Yeah, I checked ... looks like a regular dagger.
Nope - look at the handle - deer horn - the color of the blade - black - the pommel - deer horn with blade fitted in center.
1:17:25 - 1:17:33
Yes Ayra killed the Night King with her Valyrian steel dagger — the one that Bran gave her. But what she handed to Sansa looked like a normal dragonglass dagger (see 1:08:42 and the original hand-off at 19:38).
So, I was watching Ep. 5, again, and my 6 yo comes in and starts watching with me. Probably can't do that with all GOT episodes, but that one? I think so. Regardless, if you have a 6 year old child available, I'd recommend re-watching. The commentary coming from my son was priceless. I'm always impressed with what the eyes of a young child catch. Never surprised by what comes out of the mouth though. Both comically genius, and pointed. Sad when a 6 year old takes offense at the assault on his intelligence.
She has always been kind of vicious. I found a good write up about the episode. They said this about her,
In a way she has always talked about destruction. She also crucified a bunch of people.
This part I didn't remember but it was very foreshadowing...
That was pure rage on Danys part and on Grey Worm's part.
I hope she has remorse over what she did
I agree, but that is why Varis' warning about her being a Targaryen and why he was willing to risk his life to have Jon on the throne.
But Jon is a Targaryen too ... apparently Varys decided that it was clear that Jon wasn't going mad, but considering his age (at least in the books; not sure how old his character in the show is), it could be too soon to tell ....
He was a Targaryen, but he was raised as a Stark and his life was hard. This made him a different kind of person. He also never wanted to be king, which is another factor. He is not into the power, and ultimately, that is what this show is about; desire for power. Dani with all her bend the knee business of last season showed she was very much about power.
Actually, I thought that was sad, and I didn't quite get why he did that. Neither did my kids.
I think that Dany and Jon should have a kid and that kid can become the ruler. They can be co-regents until the kid comes of age
And forgot that Aunt-Nephew business, the Targaryens married brothers and sisters for centuries
Because Ghost is a creature of the North. That's where he belongs.
True, but if their insanity is hereditary, that may not matter.
The one thing I hate about this show is the direwolves. Kill off all the human characters, I don't care - but don't hurt the direwolves! Ghost is probably much safer at Winterfell than he would have been at King's Landing.
I think that ending is now ruined for the HBO version. Wonder what George has in mind?
I dunno but I do hope he doesn't let the TV dictate how he's going to finish the books
If I remember correctly, at the beginning of the books the direwolves were pretty much mythical creatures or they had become extinct. Then the Starks find puppies.
Now they're extinct again.
Where's Nymeria, Arya's wolf?
I believe I read somewhere that George has pretty much shrugged off the HBO direction and is doing his own thing. He does not seem to have any interest in following their lead.
Still in the wild. Last time we saw her, she stopped her pack from tearing Arya apart as she was heading to Winterfell.
They weren't with their owners for all that long. It actually seems more natural at this point for the two surviving wolves to remain in the wild.
By that logic, Jon doesn't belong down south either.
Well, we don't know the ending yet. And frankly if it had a perfect ending, I would have hated it. That is not life and despite bits of magic, these are still people with human flaws. If Daeny ends up Queen and hateful, it would make sense, since that is what she came from.
Right here:
Here she is.... my daughter's kitten Nymeria.
I think that the final ending for a series should leave the viewers satisfied.
But I was not talking about a happy ending anyway. My complaint is an illogical ending. At this point I have serious doubt that the writers can make this sensible.
Pretty kitty
Ah, well that is something else. But I do think they can give it a logical one, but not a satisfying one.
Thanks! She has a twin brother Albus. Can't tell what my daughter is into, right?
Is that a cat carrier in the background?
Yup. It's a Yellow Submarine backpack, LOL.
I "think" Ghost is one of the six dire wolves found in the 1st book by Robb Stark. I "believe" he was the last one found and Jon was the only person who heard him as they were leaving the dead mother.
Robb named his Grey Wind, Sansa called hers Lady, Arya called hers after some witch queen, Rickon called his Shaggydog, Jon, his Ghost, and Bran didn't get a chance to name his before Jaime pushed him out the window.
Kinda curious 'bout something. In the beginning of the book, Jon and Arya were a close as bread and butter - wonder what happened?
They still are extremely close. What makes you think otherwise?
When Jon and Dany had all the "Leaders" in the Great Hall at Winterfell, Jon and Arya didn't even show brother/sister love/bonds.
Don't you remember the scene when Jon and Arya were reunited (when Jon noticed that Arya still had Needle)? Nothing in the storyline suggests that their affection for each other would change from that.
"Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned"...
Very True!
I am sort of an authority in the subject in case you were still, um, unaware.
When Jon passed on Dani's advances I knew King's Landing would burn...
Burnt a couple of bridges, have ya?
Got to say, I was surprised since she seemed to be on board when they talked about the bells.
The Horse. A Pale Horse.
Who sits the Pale Horse?
Death
Humm... interesting.... that would mean our lady of many faces will be the bringer of death, since she now sits on the horse.
She still has Green Eyes to kill
Why do you think Arya, who had been a stealth ninja killing machine just two episodes earlier, was so ineffectual last night? It was like she was a completely different person this episode...
My guess is that the screen writers wanted to establish her empathy for the King's Landing peasants and, accordingly, place Daeny on her list.
I think it had a lot to do with that short conversation she had with the Hound
Clint Eastwood
It looks to me like Jon Snow and Daenerys are headed for a final show down but I guess that was the way it was going to be even before the destruction of the King's Landing.
Arya had a killing spree along her way. She just about became an assassin. It kind of marks different paths people can take. Arya decided to let it all go and help people while Dany was consumed with vengeance.
Makes me think they were going for symbolism. Cersei was crushed by the weight of the crown and the weight of the decisions she has made and her lust for power. In the end, it all came crashing down.
I have this hunch that Arya will be wearing the crown of the Seven Kingdoms when the final "curtain" drops.
I have a hunch she's going to be the new 'Queen slayer' killing Dany (because she has Sansa executed for treason) who has gone mad and fearful of all around her and Jon will become King but then be forced to arrest and convict Arya of Dany's assassination.
Sansa's dead?????
Not yet...
OK....that's really good.
I'm not sure what was surprising.
As a ruler, Danerys has always been driven by emotion first, has always behaved immaturely and has always made terrible decisions.
She's been evolving as a power-mad Targeryan for several seasons. Just last week she demanded that the man she supposedly loves keep secret his rightful destiny. What more foreshadowing did we require?
I couldn't read all the comments (I'm on my lunch break.) but I do remember the Mother of Dragons burn a building full of Dothraki leaders, a slaver and two Tarly's prior to finding the second man she ever loved betrayed her. She was already broken before this battle.
Arya is the personification of Death on a pale horse going into the last episode. Will she survive? Will John? What's going in Winterfell?
Yeah, what IS going on in Winterfell?
I want to know what happens to Brienne of Tarth and Samwell Tarly
Everybody knows that the Pale Horse was Clint Eastwood - when's he gonna show up?
He's President right now, reeking havoc on the Big-Time Political owners of Congress.
So I don't watch GoT, but I seem to be absorbing it by osmosis from my Facebook friends.
That's funny. I can't get my kids to watch the Princess Bride. I loved that movie.
Oddly, there have been some ROUS sightings in GOT. And, Jon Snow was only mostly dead.
Same with my son. He thinks it's stupid. I still laugh when I watch it.
LOL at Jon Snow being mostly dead. He just needed Miracle Max and his chocolate-covered pill. Have fun storming the castle, boys!