Iranian Americans express fear, call for caution amid mounting U.S. tensions

  
Via:  perrie-halpern  •  4 weeks ago  •  50 comments

 Iranian Americans express fear, call for caution amid mounting U.S. tensions
"I think it's especially terrifying how things can change overnight, literally," said one Iranian American.

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T


By Daniel Arkin


Escalating tensions between Tehran and Washington have rattled Sarah Sakha, 23, an Iranian American who recently graduated from college in the U.S. and got a job at a nonprofit in New York.

She fears for the safety of relatives and friends in Iran. She worries that few Americans recognize the perils of another military conflict in the Mideast, or what she describes as "Iraq 2.0."

Alarmed by the flurry of news alerts, she has broken down crying at work.

"The constant emotional stress and terror I feel as a first-generation Iranian American is undeniable," Sakha said. "I think it's especially terrifying how things can change overnight, literally."

190621-sarah-sakha-columbia-ac-421p_ed01Sarah Sakha, a first-generation Iranian American, said escalating tensions between the U.S. and Iran are causing her worry and fear for her relatives in Iran.Courtesy Sarah Sakha

Sakha is among nearly 500,000 people in the U.S. of Iranian ancestry, many of whom are closely following developments as the U.S. and Iran head toward a possible clash.

President Donald Trump on Friday said the U.S. was "cocked and loaded" to retaliate against Iran for downing a U.S. surveillance drone. But he said he called off the strike minutes before it was set to launch when he heard 150 civilians could die, he said.

In an interview with NBC News' Chuck Todd on Friday, Trump said a plan was "ready to go subject my approval."

As the crisis mounts, several Iranian American civic organizations and advocacy groups are on high alert, with some calling for the U.S. and Iranian governments to exercise caution before the situation spirals into violence.

The National Iranian American Council, a Washington-based group that advocates for improved relations between the two countries, pleaded for "restraint."

"Both Trump and his inner circle and Iran’s leadership should recognize that the U.S. and Iran have entered an escalation spiral. Adding fuel to the fire risks stoking this crisis to the point of no return," Jamal Abdi, the group's president, said in a statement.

"The night is always darkest before the dawn. We urge all leaders to put their countries’ best interests in mind and firmly step away from the path to war," Abdi added.

The American Iranian Council, a public policy group that focuses on diplomacy surrounding Iran, released a similar statement this week, faulting both the U.S. and Iran for stoking tensions.

"AIC calls on both countries to immediately cease their aggressive and escalating rhetoric," the group said in a statement.

It was not immediately clear whether any major Iranian American advocacy groups planned to organize aid to families in Iran, many of whom have been separated from loved ones in the U.S. by the Trump administration's travel ban or struggled under tough economic sanctions on their country.

Dealing with the icy relationship between the U.S. and Iran is nothing new for many Iranian Americans. They saw the nuclear accords under President Barack Obama give way to more openly hostile rhetoric from Trump, who has accused the Iranian regime of doing "bad, bad things.*

Ali Ghambari, founder of the Iranian American Community Alliance, a Seattle-based nonprofit, said he would not be surprised if American groups provided financial assistance to Iranian nationals during a hypothetical conflict.

Ghambari, 60, who has lived in the U.S. since 1979, said he was grateful that Trump was "not moving fast" on a standoff with Iran. He added that he would prefer a diplomatic resolution.

But not all Iranian Americans were averse to the U.S. taking a hard line against Iran.

At a gathering in front of the White House on Friday, dozens of Iranian Americans rallied for regime change in Tehran, with some calling for the overthrow of the ruling government.

Ahmad, an Iranian-American man who did not want to provide his full name because of concerns about his family's safety, said he blamed the Iranian regime for the deaths of his brothers, including one he says was tortured in state prison.

He said he did not expect that will be a war. But the U.S., he added, will "have to take firm action."

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Perrie Halpern R.A.
1  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.    4 weeks ago

What many Americans seem to think Iranians are, is a misconception. Iranian Americans are both Muslim and Jewish. They have family both here and there. They get along with each other very well. Even in Iran, most want to be free of the theocracy there. Iranians are not Arabs either. 

My real estate agent is an Iranian American and Jewish. She says that even during the days before the  Shia, most people got along and all they wanted was to say they had a professional in the family. 

I think that most Americans are unaware of this and that we can dislike the Iranian gov and not it's people. 

 
 
 
MUVA
1.1  MUVA  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1    4 weeks ago

My father lived in Iran for 18 months he was the military attache at the Embassy my dad loved the Iranian people.My father helped his housekeeper and her family to  come to the US in 1978 knowing they would probably executed if they stayed.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.1.1  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  MUVA @1.1    4 weeks ago

Thanks for that real life insight MUVA. The people are suffering. They want out from under the ayatollahs. They want democracy. Why would we want to turn these people into our enemies?

 
 
 
Krishna
1.1.2  Krishna  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1.1    4 weeks ago
Why would we want to turn these people into our enemies?

And by the same token-- why would Trump do any of the other crazy stuff he does? Praising some of the world's worst dictators....and constantly bashing our best allies?

Why would he want to do that?

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
1.1.3  Bob Nelson  replied to  Krishna @1.1.2    4 weeks ago
Why would he want to do that?

There are about seven billion people asking the same question...

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
2  Buzz of the Orient    4 weeks ago

I have liked the Iranians I knew in Canada, and it is not the ordinary Iranian civilians who are the problem, and I hope they come out of this conflict unhurt and unaffected.  It is the ruling Mullahs, the Ayatollahs, the Revolutionary Guard, and the Islamists (NOT the common peaceful Muslims) that must be stopped - they are the problem and I do not believe there is a diplomatic solution to be had.  It is the common peaceful Muslims who wish a normal life, the women who remove in public the symbol of their submission, the hijab, and get thrown in jail for NOT WISHING TO BE SUBMISSIVE TO THE ISLAMISTS who must be helped.  They must fight for their freedom from those who throw innocent LGBT people off roofs and hang them from cranes, who burn American and Israeli flags, shouting "Death to Israel", "Death to America" and it is those who are fighting for freedom from them who must be helped.  Obama did everything he could to help the Mullahs, so righteous people around the world must do whatever they can to help bring freedom to the good people of Iran.

 
 
 
Krishna
2.1  Krishna  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @2    4 weeks ago
I have liked the Iranians I knew in Canada,

I have known quite a few number of Iranian-Americans when I was in Los Angeles. (I believe that's the largest Iranian-American community). Actually when I first met them I was surprised because they mostly defied the stereotype that uninformed Americans (like myself!) had. Most were from Muslim backgrounds, but they were non-religious. (Many I met several openly mocked religion).

They also tend to be very "upwardly-mobile'-- hard working people, often successful business people.

And BTW, for several years the mayor of Beverly Hills was Jimmy Delshad-- an Iranian immigrant! 

 
 
 
r.t..b...
2.1.1  r.t..b...  replied to  Krishna @2.1    4 weeks ago
They also tend to be very "upwardly-mobile'-- hard working people

I recommend revisiting the Anthony Bourdain segment on Iran. Always an expose of the geopolitical and historical aspects of the societies he visits as much as a foodie travelogue, this one was particularly illuminating. Bottom line, and to no ones' surprise...it's complicated.

 
 
 
dave-2693993
2.1.2  dave-2693993  replied to  Krishna @2.1    4 weeks ago
I have known quite a few number of Iranian-Americans when I was in Los Angeles

Unless I am mistaken, the LA area also has one of the largest Zoroastrian followers. Also, if I am not mistaken, Zoroaster came from the region we now call Iran.

...waiting to hear back from my long time friend who should have returned from visit to Iran during Ramadan. Not that he is a strict follower of any religion, however, it is a time that lends itself to meting family and old friends.

 
 
 
lib50
2.1.3  lib50  replied to  dave-2693993 @2.1.2    4 weeks ago
LA area also has one of the largest Zoroastrian followers.

It does, and the area goes by the nickname Tehrangeles.  I remember when I was in college there were a lot of Iranians that had fled after the revolution.

 
 
 
Krishna
2.1.4  Krishna  replied to  dave-2693993 @2.1.2    4 weeks ago
Unless I am mistaken, the LA area also has one of the largest Zoroastrian followers. Also, if I am not mistaken, Zoroaster came from the region we now call Iran.

The country with the modern name of "Iran" consists mainly of descendents of the ancient Persians. In fact, all the "Iranian-Americans" I know insist on referring to themselves as "Persians"-- they are very proud of their heritage. (And very proud that they are not Arabs...)

Most Americans mistakenly believe Iran is an Arab country. After all they are predominantly Muslim, are in the Middle East... and both Arab Iraq and Iran even have a name starting with the letter I and a name that is four letters long!  Iraq-- Iran. Sounds very similar...

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
2.1.5  Bob Nelson  replied to  Krishna @2.1.4    4 weeks ago

The language of Iran is Persian.

It uses tbe Arabic alphabet, but has nothing to with Arabic, linguistically. The sounds are not at all the same. Arabic is guttural, with glottal stops - sounds that originate deep in the throat.

Persian is spoken from the front of the mouth, with lots of sibilants.

Oh, and.... the Persian word for "thank you" is merci.

 
 
 
Krishna
2.1.6  Krishna  replied to  Krishna @2.1.4    4 weeks ago

Unless I am mistaken, the LA area also has one of the largest Zoroastrian followers. Also, if I am not mistaken, Zoroaster came from the region we now call Iran.

Recently I met a woman in a class I am taking-- we had nametags, her's said "Mahernaz". I thought it sounded Persian or Indian, I asked her family's background and she said that indeed they originated in Persia.

Therefore I assumed her family background was Muslim, but as I got to know her it was obvious she wasn't Muslim. When I asked her, she said her family background was Zoroastrian! (This is indeed a very ancient religion, predating more recent religions such as Islam-- even predating Judaism and Buddhism .She is the first person I ever met who was from a Zoroastrian background).

She is an immigrant to the U.S. from India (like many Indian immigrants her English is flawless)-- her parents still live in India. Zoroastrianism originated in the area that is now Iran or at least nearby.. I do remember reading that when the Muslims conquered Iran, they treated the people living there horribly. So many Zoroastrian's moved to India where many of them still live. 

 
 
 
Krishna
2.1.7  Krishna  replied to  Bob Nelson @2.1.5    4 weeks ago
Oh, and.... the Persian word for "thank you" is merci.

I was going to ask why, but googled it instead.

 
 
 
Krishna
2.1.8  Krishna  replied to  r.t..b... @2.1.1    4 weeks ago
I recommend revisiting the Anthony Bourdain segment on Iran. Always an expose of the geopolitical and historical aspects of the societies he visits as much as a foodie travelogue, this one was particularly illuminating

There's something from him that was posted on the "Israel Loves Iran" fb page.

 
 
 
dave-2693993
2.1.9  dave-2693993  replied to  Krishna @2.1.4    4 weeks ago
Iraq-- Iran. Sounds very similar...

Oh yes, yet as you pointed out significant differences exist between the two.

Maybe some do not recognize how significant the differences are.

"Oh they are just Arabs", yet they are not as you pointed out.

Outside of the islamic suppression the inherent culture is very different.

A very rich, very ancient history, which, for the most part was stolen and not recognized by modern history re-writes.

My friend was born in an ancient Persian city in the dessert. A beautiful city emerged there at a large dessert oasis. It is a city of beautiful tile works that exist to this day.

When he was young his family moved to a town on the edge of the Persian Gulf where his family set up a thriving gourmet confectionery shop. It remains in business.

I am still wondering if he and his wife were allowed to return home? Home to here, that is.

 
 
 
dave-2693993
2.1.10  dave-2693993  replied to  Krishna @2.1.6    4 weeks ago
She is an immigrant to the U.S. from India (like many Indian immigrants her English is flawless)-- her parents still live in India. Zoroastrianism originated in the area that is now Iran or at least nearby.. I do remember reading that when the Muslims conquered Iran, they treated the people living there horribly. So many Zoroastrian's moved to India where many of them still live. 

This makes complete sense.

I guess that would have been a returning to home, as it were. As we (or some of us) know the true Aryans (as opposed to the mid 20th century nonsense) emerged from India.

To be honest I am fascinated by Zoroastrianism. I have seen a ritual performed at night by the fireside. It seemed to be all about nature and our oneness with it. Even somewhat similar to Native Americans oneness with the Creator and nature.

One day I hope to visit that oasis city in the dessert.

All very interesting and thoughtful.

 
 
 
dave-2693993
2.1.11  dave-2693993  replied to  lib50 @2.1.3    4 weeks ago
I remember when I was in college there were a lot of Iranians that had fled after the revolution.

I don't blame them.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
2.1.12  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Krishna @2.1.6    4 weeks ago

Very interesting information, Krishna - it's always good to learn something new.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
3  Bob Nelson    4 weeks ago

Americans, regardless of religion or origin, have watched the destruction wrought on the Middle East by America's overwhelming military power.

Television has shown us that destruction - but no mangled bodies please!! Some things must never be shown....   jrSmiley_32_smiley_image.gif

Anyone who does not fear for the future of the Iranian people, under the menace of an unstable man with the authority to call all that military power down whenever he pleases... has no conscience...

 
 
 
Ronin2
3.1  Ronin2  replied to  Bob Nelson @3    4 weeks ago
Anyone who does not fear for the future of the Iranian people, under the menace of an unstable man with the authority to call all that military power down whenever he pleases... has no conscience...

I don't. The Iranian people have the choice to rebel against their government, They are not going to get a much better chance than this. The Iranian government and military is completely focused on the US forces surrounding it. Of course they will have to take it much farther than their halfhearted attempt during the Arab Spring.  Remind us all who was President then and did nothing to support them?

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/03/iranian-protesters-need-trump-to-keep-tweeting-commentary.html

So far, President Trump and Vice President Mike Pence have done just that with multiple tweets, backed up by anofficial State Department statement.

That may not seem substantial, but the recent track record on these kinds of issues says otherwise. Widespread protests against the Iranian government that erupted in 2009 eventually died when the government responded harshly. Just when public support from the Obama administration was needed most, none came.

Even former chairman of the Joint Chiefs under President Obama Mike Mullen said in aTV interview this weekend that, "I think we chose to not be as supportive as we could have been then. And I hope we can be right now so that Iran can continue to evolve."

That was in sharp contrast to President Obama'sstrong vocal support for pro-democracy protesters in Egypt in 2011 during the so-called Arab Spring.Obama's encouraging words for those protesters bolstered them as they eventually succeeded in carrying out a more democratic election. Two years later, Obama switched to the silent treatment. He backed away from that new Egyptian government, led by the Muslim Brotherhood,and signaled with his silence that the U.S. would not move to block a military coup d'etat.

When it comes to U.S. presidents, words and the lack of words really do matter.

As for Trump. Zero military engagements started under his watch.  If only the left and media had been this vocal during the Obama administration Libya, Syria, and reentry into Iraq could have been completely avoided.

I am still against US military conflict with Iran. I think it is hilarious that those that remained silent for Obama's excessive military over reaches are now complaining about Trump before even a single shot is fired by US forces.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
3.1.1  Bob Nelson  replied to  Ronin2 @3.1    4 weeks ago
Anyone who does not fear for the future of the Iranian people, under the menace of an unstable man with the authority to call all that military power down whenever he pleases... has no conscience...
 
 
 
Krishna
3.1.2  Krishna  replied to  Ronin2 @3.1    4 weeks ago

I don't. The Iranian people have the choice to rebel against their government,Your lack of knowlege on the subject is not surprising.

While this may come as a total surprise to you...they already have. Most iranian hate their barbaric theocracy and the government restrictions on their freedom.

However when they rebelled it was brutally surpressed

The Iranian Green Movement (Persian: جنبش سبز ایران‎), also known as the Persian Awakening or Persian Spring by the western media,[1] refers to a political movement that arose after the 2009 Iranian presidential election, in which protesters demanded the removal of Mahmoud Ahmadinejadfrom office. Green was initially used as the symbol of Mir Hossein Mousavi's campaign, but after the election it became the symbol of unity and hope for those asking for annulment of what they regarded as a fraudulent election. Mir Hossein Mousavi and Mehdi Karroubi are recognized as political leaders of the Green Movement.[2] Hossein-Ali Montazeri was also mentioned as spiritual leader of the movement.[3]
Some have claimed that Green Movement protests were a major event in Iran's modern political history and observers claimed that protests were the largest since the Iranian Revolution of 1978–79.[4][5][6]
Clashes broke out between police and groups protesting the election results from early morning on Saturday onward. Initially, the protests were largely peaceful. However, as time passed, they became increasingly violent. In a stand-off that later took place in north Tehran between supporters of Ahmadinejad and Mousavi, an angry throng of people broke into shops, started fires, and tore down signs.[17] Civil unrest took place as riot police on motorbikes used batons to disperse Mousavi supporters who staged a sit-in near the interior ministry, where the results were announced. Up to 2,000 Mousavi supporters erected barricades of burning tyres and chanted "Mousavi take back our vote!".[18]
The demonstrations grew bigger and more heated than the 1999 student protests.[19] Al Jazeera English described the 13 June situation as the "biggest unrest since the 1979 revolution." It also reported that protests seemed spontaneous without any formal organization
 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
3.1.3  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Ronin2 @3.1    4 weeks ago
I am still against US military conflict with Iran. I think it is hilarious that those that remained silent for Obama's excessive military over reaches are now complaining about Trump before even a single shot is fired by US forces.

I didn't agree with Obama's policy in the ME. But that was then, and this is now and things have never been so intense in recent years.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
3.1.4  Sean Treacy  replied to  Krishna @3.1.2    4 weeks ago

Obama turning his back on the green movement was the work of someone with no conscious.

 
 
 
MUVA
3.1.5  MUVA  replied to  Sean Treacy @3.1.4    4 weeks ago

You beat me to it. I would like to see where Obama investments are located it would be telling.He went out of his way to give them 150 billion I would say some has come back to him.

 
 
 
dave-2693993
3.1.6  dave-2693993  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @3.1.3    4 weeks ago
I didn't agree with Obama's policy in the ME. But that was then, and this is now and things have never been so intense in recent years.

JMO, we have had one disaster after another when it comes to foreign policy. Also, IMO, most of the recent disasters have been driven by vanity in order to have a mark on history. Oh, they have made a mark on history alright.

This most recent one, who campaigned on a platform to get us out of the ME and now wants a fight with Iran? I keep getting the impression "our" policies are determined in internet chat rooms.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
3.1.7  Greg Jones  replied to  Sean Treacy @3.1.4    4 weeks ago

I agree...why was it soooo important to send that money as a bribe. And now the Iranian "government" has probably spent most of that money spreading terrorism. Trump doesn't want a "fight" with the Iranians, but he is not causing the unrest or the aggression Iran is currently showing.

Our beef is not with the Iranian people, who are some of the most educated citizens in that whole region, it's with the crazy fanatical mullahs and their foot soldiers.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
3.1.8  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Greg Jones @3.1.7    4 weeks ago

I get it, Obama's policy was bad. Bush's policies were bad. We make tons of bad choices when it comes to the ME. Even Reagans policies were bad. He supported the Mujahideen and Bin Laden directly which became Al Qaeda. Clinton should have taken it more seriously when the Cole got bombed and the first go at the WTC... I get it...

But you guys seem to ignore that we have a chance to get it right. Getting it right is not destabilizing the region right now.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
3.1.9  Bob Nelson  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @3.1.8    4 weeks ago
Getting it right is not destabilizing the region right now.

Exactly!

 
 
 
dave-2693993
3.1.10  dave-2693993  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @3.1.8    4 weeks ago
But you guys seem to ignore that we have a chance to get it right. Getting it right is not destabilizing the region right now.

Not exactly true.

Recognizing fallacies of the past does not equate to not wanting it done right.

For all I can tell right now we have too many policies influenced by internet chats room discussion and twitter and what ever kind of mind numbing social media crap is out there.

I don't see "our" current path headed anywhere near any right direction.

It is a mess and we keep digging a deeper hole.

I have been right smack in the middle political failures and all I see happening now is more nonsense, creating more nonsense creating more situations for more people to be caught smack in the middle of political failures.

So, yes, I agree there is nothing wrong wanting it done right.

What are your thoughts Perrie? What might you think would be a suggestion to get out of the ever tightening cycle we are in?

 
 
 
Krishna
3.1.11  Krishna  replied to  dave-2693993 @3.1.6    4 weeks ago
Also, IMO, most of the recent disasters have been driven by vanity in order to have a mark on history.

The most recent ones. 

But much of what we did previously was also due to the need for oil. (For example, the wars on Iraq).

Some were due to the fear that Communism would take over the world (especially the war on Viet-Nam-- the "Domino Theory"):

The domino theory was a Cold War policy that suggested a communist government in one nation would quickly lead to communist takeovers in neighboring states, each falling like a perfectly aligned row of dominos. In Southeast Asia, the U.S. government used the now-discredited domino theory to justify its involvement in the Vietnam War and its support for a non-communist dictator in South Vietnam.

Also crazy American policies proping up horrendous dictators in Latin America...as long as they were "anti-Communist" we supported them

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
3.1.12  Bob Nelson  replied to  Krishna @3.1.11    4 weeks ago

George Marshall, Secretary of State after WWII, defined a long-term strategy against the Soviet Union, called "Containment". The idea was to not make war against the Soviets directly, but to counter their every attempt at expansion... and simply outlast them.

Containment was followed by all American governments regardless of party, right up to the collapse of the Soviet Union. Obviously... the policy was, overall, a success.

There were some mistakes - the excess of Vietnam being among the most egregious. But we won the Cold War, without it ever getting hot.

America has had no overarching foreign policy since... notably in the ME.

 
 
 
Krishna
3.1.13  Krishna  replied to  dave-2693993 @3.1.10    4 weeks ago
What might you think would be a suggestion to get out of the ever tightening cycle we are in?

There have been some efforts by some groups to tone down the rhetoric-- all the shrill hate-mongering by politicians in various countries...with various agendas.

Here's one such effort-- in itself it probably won't solve the problems-- but it might be a small step in the right direction: A Facebook page:

Israel Loves Iran

12507242_1210594442301612_66019928508758
 · NO war with IRAN!

A few years ago we started this page because of the sound of war coming between Israel and Iran. 
today the same sounds are coming again. 
this time USA and Iran
since we started we ve made thousand and thousands of friends, Iranian, Israelis, Americans....People from all over the region, the world.
stand with us and say NO to a war with Iran.
-------------
Just type "no war + your country " in the comment section and we ll make you a poster "no war with Iran" with your profile picture

we 2764.png<3 you

 
 
 
WallyW
3.1.14  WallyW  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @3.1.8    4 weeks ago

So what do we do to get it right?

Simply ignore them??

 
 
 
Krishna
3.1.15  Krishna  replied to  Krishna @3.1.13    4 weeks ago

I mwhen that was started-- it was way back in 2012!

About
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Founded on March 14, 2012
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Mission
A LINE OF COMMUNICATION BETWEEN THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL AND IRAN, 
A bridge in the Middle East between the people
MORE INFO
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About
A bridge in the Middle East between the people.We are not enemies. We love each other. www.thepeacefactory.org
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We are showing a new image of the middle east.
it is my conviction that this is the way to achieve peace.
To break the wall of fear. ... See More
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Founding date
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dave-2693993
3.1.16  dave-2693993  replied to  Krishna @3.1.11    4 weeks ago
But much of what we did previously was also due to the need for oil. (For example, the wars on Iraq).

Some were due to the fear that Communism would take over the world (especially the war on Viet-Nam-- the "Domino Theory"):

The domino theory was a Cold War policy that suggested a communist government in one nation would quickly lead to communist takeovers in neighboring states, each falling like a perfectly aligned row of dominos. In Southeast Asia, the U.S. government used the now-discredited domino theory to justify its involvement in the Vietnam War and its support for a non-communist dictator in South Vietnam.

Also crazy American policies proping up horrendous dictators in Latin America...as long as they were "anti-Communist" we supported them

You said a lot there Krishna.

I think this statement is the most key of allbut goes beyond Latin America and the Commie threat:

Also crazy American policies proping up horrendous dictators in Latin America...as long as they were "anti-Communist" we supported them

In particular:

crazy American policies proping up horrendous dictators

When will we stop that nonsense? Was there a time it never failed to bite us in the ass?

One last thought on this response, whether it was oil or not for many deciding factors, I can't help but think the selfish need for a mark or mention in history was the primary deciding factor in all cases.

Oh yeah, they all have rightly earned their place in history.

 
 
 
dave-2693993
3.1.17  dave-2693993  replied to  Krishna @3.1.13    4 weeks ago
There have been some efforts by some groups to tone down the rhetoric-- all the shrill hate-mongering by politicians in various countries...with various agendas.

We never know which grass roots movement will gain traction.

It seems ideologies are usually the problem, not the people.

 
 
 
dave-2693993
3.1.18  dave-2693993  replied to  Krishna @3.1.15    4 weeks ago

Interesting. Thank you.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
3.1.19  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  dave-2693993 @3.1.10    4 weeks ago
What are your thoughts Perrie? What might you think would be a suggestion to get out of the ever tightening cycle we are in?

Well, not intensifying the situation with Iran is one. 

Stabilizing the countries where ISIS was by training the locals and leaving. 

Helping the Saudis so that they can handle the situation, and not us. 

Obviously, this is just me rattling off some ideas, but it's better than what we have going on.

And helping the Iranian people covertly, to let them gain power again.

 
 
 
dave-2693993
3.1.20  dave-2693993  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @3.1.19    4 weeks ago

Those are some good ideas Perrie and I will agree everything except this:

And helping the Iranian people covertly, to let them gain power again.

Every time, or pretty close to it, we stick our noses in the middle of another countries business, it seems to backfire.

I deal with our meddling in the Ukraine situation every day of my life. We caused all that. We we the tipping point. "Good intentions" paving the highway to hell.

Then again there are those Russians and their meddling ways. We started that game first with them. Yes we did, lest anyone forgot.

Then there is that "Arab Spring" thing.

Hmmm, funny, unless I am mistaken, same Secretary of State in all instances.

Anyhow, those are just recent examples.

That is a dangerous game. I don't think we have a good track record in that game.

All in all, thank you for some good ideas.

 
 
 
Ender
4  Ender    4 weeks ago

Supposedly we did level some kind of cyber attack.

I actually don't see any smooth way forward. We cannot attack and try to overthrow the government and their government isn't going anywhere.

Funny though, the one thing I do see maybe happening is some kind of accord or agreement being made that will only resemble the one Obama had but somehow will be touted as better.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
4.1  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Ender @4    4 weeks ago

That might be the end result. It would be better than going to war with them. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
5  JohnRussell    4 weeks ago

The Iranians who live in the large cities are somewhat modernized and are not too happy with the theocracy. 

But I think most of the Iranian population lives in rural areas that very much support the mullahs and religious government. 

That is their dilemma as a society. 

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
5.1  Bob Nelson  replied to  JohnRussell @5    4 weeks ago

I think you're right about the differing urban / rural attitudes, but not about the split between the two.

Iran is 75% urban.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
5.1.1  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Bob Nelson @5.1    4 weeks ago

Bob,

You got that right! 

 
 
 
Krishna
5.1.2  Krishna  replied to  Bob Nelson @5.1    4 weeks ago
I think you're right about the differing urban / rural attitudes, but not about the split between the two. Iran is 75% urban.

In many ways Iran is a very evolved civilization. Uninformed Americans tend to think its a lot like the Arab countries-- the majority of people in Iran are not. (The clkltures in Iran and the Arab world are very very different)

I remember when the Internet started being used by"the masses". Most users at first were American, followed by other English speaking countries (IIRC, the UK was second, than 3rd and 4th place keep flipping between Canada and Australia).

But there was a surprise-- after that one of the top countries  in Internet usage was-- Iran! And that was despite government attempts at preventing it.

(Also amongst countries with disproportionately high usage in the early days were Finland and Israel).

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
5.2  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  JohnRussell @5    4 weeks ago

John.

Most Iranians do not support the mullahs. That is why the uprising was so large. It's jut that they have an army protecting the mullahs and the gov. Unless they decided to change sides, the people live in a police state. 

 
 
 
Krishna
6  Krishna    4 weeks ago

Both Iran and Saudi Arabia are Theocracies-- religious police states. And both have religious police that go around enforcing Islamic law. (I believe there are a few other Islamic countries that also have them-- also NorthernNigeria which is Muslim). But up until recently, there wasn't much protest in most of these places-- except for Iran!

In Iran Protests, Women Stand Up, Lift Their Hijab, For Their Rights

Tension is rising between Iran and the United States these days. But Iran's leaders are facing pressure from various sides at home, too.

Ordinary Iranians are mounting protests that refuse to go away, despite a sharp response from the authorities.

The demonstrations began to make news late last year, focusing largely on economic hardship. As those protests continued in cities around the country, another movement re-emerged: young women standing up against the enforcement of conservative Muslim strictures on their dress and behavior.

Similar protests have gone on for years, sometimes unnoticed outside Iran.

In late 2017, police said they would stop arresting people for dress code violations. But harassment of women by the "morality police" continued.

(READ IT ALL)

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
6.1  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Krishna @6    4 weeks ago

Excellent comment Krish. 

 
 
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