GUN VIOLENCE ARCHIVE 2019

  
Via:  buzz-of-the-orient  •  3 weeks ago  •  180 comments

GUN VIOLENCE ARCHIVE 2019
"Happiness is a Warm Gun" (The Beatles)

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T


GUN VIOLENCE ARCHIVE 2019

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The Gun Violence Archive is an online archive of gun violence incidents collected from over 6,500  law enforcement, media, government and commercial sources daily in an effort to provide near-real time data about the results of gun violence. GVA is an independent data collection and research group with no affiliation with any advocacy organization.

Mission Statement


Gun Violence Archive (GVA) is a not for profit corporation formed in 2013 to provide online public access to accurate information about gun-related violence in the United States. GVA will collect and check for accuracy, comprehensive information about gun-related violence in the U.S. and then post and disseminate it online, primarily if not exclusively on this website and summary ledgers at www.facebook.com/gunviolencearchive and on Twitter @gundeaths. It is hoped that this information will inform and assist those engaged in discussions and activities concerning gun violence, including analysis of proposed regulations or legislation relating to gun safety usage. All we ask is to please provide proper credit for use of Gun Violence Archive data and advise us of its use.

GVA is not, by design an advocacy group. The mission of GVA is to document incidents of gun violence and gun crime nationally to provide independent, verified data to those who need to use it in their research, advocacy or writing.


logo.png 2019



Gun violence  and crime incidents are collected/validated from 6,500 sources daily – incidents and their source data are found at the gunviolencearchive.org website.

1: Actual number of deaths and injuries
2: Number of INCIDENTS reported and verified

22,000 Annual Suicides not included on Daily Summary Ledger

Numbers on this table reflect a subset of all information
collected and will not add to 100% of incidents.

www.gunviolencearchive.org  www.facebook.com/gunviolencearchive

CHARTS AND MAPS





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Data Validated: July 28, 2019

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Buzz of the Orient
1  seeder  Buzz of the Orient    3 weeks ago

I don't need to comment. The article speaks for itself, although I did post it under "Stranger Than Fiction".

 
 
 
squiggy
1.1  squiggy  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1    3 weeks ago

Somebody’s lying. I counted 162 locations of mass shootings with a total of 241 victims.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
1.2  Greg Jones  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1    3 weeks ago

Is your point....ban guns?

Should the government require that all guns be registered so that they then can be confiscated, like the left wingers want to do?

When, not if, the next mass or school shootings occur, what preventive measures were in place....locked doors, metal detectors, qualified armed people? The answer is....probably none.

 
 
 
Tessylo
1.2.1  Tessylo  replied to  Greg Jones @1.2    3 weeks ago

All guns are required to be registered, duh.

 
 
 
Texan1211
1.2.2  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @1.2.1    3 weeks ago
All guns are required to be registered, duh.

Source please.

I find something 100% different than what YOU claim.

Most states in the U.S. do not require registration of guns and there is no Federal program to register guns. In fact under Federal law a national gun registry is illegal and eight states also have bans on any gun registry.
Gun Laws By State: The Complete and Updated Guide
www.gunstocarry.com/gun-laws-state/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_the_United_States_by_state

https://www.gunstocarry.com/gun-laws-state

Duh.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
1.2.3  XDm9mm  replied to  Tessylo @1.2.1    3 weeks ago
All guns are required to be registered, duh.

When you register to voice your opinion as in expressing your 1st Amendment rights, I'll consider registering my guns.

How's that for a compromise.

Now show me one right that you need to register to enjoy.

 
 
 
Texan1211
1.2.4  Texan1211  replied to  XDm9mm @1.2.3    3 weeks ago
Now show me one right that you need to register to enjoy.

Don't hold your breath!

I am still waiting for the source that "All guns must be registered".

Think I'll ever, ever get it?

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
1.2.5  Mark in Wyoming  replied to  Texan1211 @1.2.4    3 weeks ago

most people think that when a firearm bought through a dealer when that little federal form is filled out , is a registration of some sort , its not , its simply a record of sale by that gun dealer.

 matter of fact , by law that form cannot be used for registration.

 Some states do require registration , some do not , I happen to live in a state that does not require registration in any form  other than what is required on the federal level ( full automatics ).

 
 
 
squiggy
1.2.6  squiggy  replied to  Tessylo @1.2.1    3 weeks ago

“All guns are required to be registered, duh.”

Where?

 
 
 
Texan1211
1.2.7  Texan1211  replied to  squiggy @1.2.6    3 weeks ago
“All guns are required to be registered, duh.”
Where?

Oh, that is just something she made up.

It has no basis in reality.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
1.2.8  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Greg Jones @1.2    3 weeks ago
"Is your point....ban guns?"

Not at all. I simply posted the article for informational purposes and to elicit comments on it.  But since you asked me my point - I think the situation is so obvious it would take an idiot not to get the point.  But if you seek my OPINION on it, I think that it is much too late to make any changes to the situation in the USA, even too late to try to do what Australia did and New Zealand is now doing.  I think, to the contrary. I think America has NO CHOICE but to issue firearms to virtually every family and every person over the age of 12 in the USA. Every home needs at least one gun now.  Then it shouldn't be necessary to close the borders, because a person has to be nuts to go to live in a virtual universal shooting gallery.

 
 
 
Tessylo
1.2.9  Tessylo  replied to  Texan1211 @1.2.2    3 weeks ago

I didn't know that.  Obviously all guns SHOULD BE REQUIRED TO BE REGISTERED.  

 
 
 
Sparty On
1.2.10  Sparty On  replied to  Tessylo @1.2.9    3 weeks ago

Obviously ......  your understanding of the topic is sophomoric at best.

For ALL GUNS legally bought from FFL holders (gun shops etc) the purchaser must already go through a criminal record background check via NICS.   Felons, illegal aliens, illegal drug users, people who have PPO's against them or those who have been adjudicated mentally defective can not legally own a gun.   No matter where they buy it.

That said, registering ALL guns is clearly not required since most guns are owned legally, by law abiding citizens and will NEVER be involved in a crime.   Many of the guns that are involved in a crime are already  illegally owned and registration will do squat to stop that 

Talk about throwing the baby out with the bath water .......  

 
 
 
Texan1211
1.2.11  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @1.2.9    3 weeks ago
I didn't know that.

Yeah, THAT was pretty clear from your definitive statement that ALL GUNS ARE REQUIRED TO BE REGISTERED.

Obviously all guns SHOULD BE REQUIRED TO BE REGISTERED.

The only truly obvious thing is that is merely your opinion.

 
 
 
Dean Moriarty
2  Dean Moriarty    3 weeks ago

Good news relatively small numbers compared to the approximately 480,000 that die in the US each year from smoking. 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
2.1  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Dean Moriarty @2    3 weeks ago

How many die of old age?  You could compare those numbers.

 
 
 
Dean Moriarty
2.1.1  Dean Moriarty  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @2.1    3 weeks ago

Is old age preventable? I don’t see many pushing for a ban on high capacity cigarette cartons like they do for gun magazines here in the states. 

 
 
 
lib50
2.1.2  lib50  replied to  Dean Moriarty @2.1.1    3 weeks ago

Asinine comparison, totally unrelated. 

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
2.1.3  Freedom Warrior  replied to  lib50 @2.1.2    3 weeks ago

Unrelated in a physical sense but not in an ideological sense.  But given the hierarchal superiority of the 2nd Amendment your countering declaration just got vaporized.

 
 
 
Tessylo
2.1.4  Tessylo  replied to  Freedom Warrior @2.1.3    3 weeks ago

What nonsense.  Is that all you have?

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
2.1.5  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Tessylo @2.1.4    3 weeks ago

NOthing more is necessary.

 
 
 
r.t..b...
2.2  r.t..b...  replied to  Dean Moriarty @2    3 weeks ago
Good news relatively small numbers

Collateral damage I suppose. I'm sure the shattered families take solace in knowing your rights remained unfettered while they are left to pick up the pieces. The maps should be a sobering reminder that we have work to do in addressing a deadly serious and uniquely American problem.

 
 
 
Dean Moriarty
2.2.1  Dean Moriarty  replied to  r.t..b... @2.2    3 weeks ago

There is nothing uniquely American about it. There are thirty countries with higher rates of gun violence than the USA. 

 
 
 
r.t..b...
2.2.2  r.t..b...  replied to  Dean Moriarty @2.2.1    3 weeks ago
There are thirty countries with higher rates of gun violence than the USA. 

A list? At your trigger-finger tips no doubt...interesting to see the countries we lag behind...Percentages vs. sheer numbers is high on the list of deflections. 

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
2.2.3  Freedom Warrior  replied to  r.t..b... @2.2    3 weeks ago

Take solace?  Like when muderous illegal alien criminals are protected by cities and states here in CA.

 
 
 
r.t..b...
2.2.4  r.t..b...  replied to  Freedom Warrior @2.2.3    3 weeks ago
 Like when muderous illegal alien criminals are protected by cities and states here in CA.

Two different issues. The incredibly easy access to muderous [sic] weapons only serves to illuminate the underlying problem.

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
2.2.5  Freedom Warrior  replied to  r.t..b... @2.2.4    3 weeks ago

Access to methods of self protection from left wing extremists in my view.

Seems like a there are more than a few around that really hate that.

 
 
 
r.t..b...
2.2.6  r.t..b...  replied to  Freedom Warrior @2.2.5    3 weeks ago
Access to methods of self protection from left wing extremists in my view.

That is so perverted a view from a 'Freedom Warrior' it defies description. Living in fear and being locked and loaded is no way to live your life in this country.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
2.2.7  XDm9mm  replied to  r.t..b... @2.2.6    3 weeks ago
Living in fear and being locked and loaded is no way to live your life in this country.

Exactly who is living in fear?   I most certainly am not.  I AM living prepared for what I hope never happens again where I have to use a firearm for defensive purposes, once for myself and once for another.

But I do need to ask a question.  If you believe carrying a handgun is 'living in fear', why is the life of my loved ones and myself any less important than that of a law enforcement officer.  They don't carry to protect others, they carry to protect themselves from the very same thugs of society that I do.  Are you claiming they live in fear?

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
2.2.8  Freedom Warrior  replied to  r.t..b... @2.2.6    3 weeks ago

Freedom from extremists telling me how to live my life would be a lot easier if we didn't have people making statements like that.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
2.2.9  XDm9mm  replied to  r.t..b... @2.2.4    3 weeks ago
The incredibly easy access to muderous [sic] weapons only serves to illuminate the underlying problem.

Then maybe we should ban hammers, clubs and like instruments as they were used to kill more people (2017 statistics) than the much maligned "AR-15 and AK-47" and all other sporting rifles combined so many uninformed people fear.

 
 
 
Tessylo
2.2.10  Tessylo  replied to  Dean Moriarty @2.2.1    3 weeks ago

Please provide those 30 countries.  You can't because it is not true 

 
 
 
Texan1211
2.2.11  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @2.2.10    3 weeks ago

I can find 10 countries with higher gun death rates than the US.

www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-with-the-highest-rates-of-firearm-related-deaths.html

And to think how many folks are STILL wanting to come here.

 
 
 
Tessylo
2.2.12  Tessylo  replied to  XDm9mm @2.2.9    3 weeks ago

You can't mass murder people with hammers, clubs, and 'like instruments' whatever they are.  

 
 
 
XDm9mm
2.2.13  XDm9mm  replied to  Tessylo @2.2.12    3 weeks ago
You can't mass murder people with hammers, clubs, and 'like instruments' whatever they are.  

Other than you, who the fuck is talking about "mass murder".

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
2.2.14  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Tessylo @2.2.12    3 weeks ago

You can with automobiles. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
2.2.15  Tessylo  replied to  Freedom Warrior @2.2.14    3 weeks ago

Like the right wing extremist who killed Heather Heyer and injured 16 others?

Only cars weren't made to slaughter many people.  Guns are

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
2.2.16  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Tessylo @2.2.15    3 weeks ago

Cars weren't made to slaughter.  But guns were made to protect us from extremists with autos.

Nevertheless, autos don't fall under the purview of the Second Amendment.

 
 
 
Tessylo
2.2.17  Tessylo  replied to  Freedom Warrior @2.2.5    3 weeks ago

You need to protect yourself from right wing extremists.  The left, nope.

The right wing extremists are the #1 domestic terrorists in the US.  

 
 
 
Texan1211
2.2.18  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @2.2.15    3 weeks ago
Only cars weren't made to slaughter many people. Guns are

Well, the next time you need to defend yourself or family, just go jump in your car!

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
2.2.19  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Tessylo @2.2.17    3 weeks ago

Not accoding to what I've seem here and elsewhere from left wing extremists.

You can give up the phony charade now.  We know what anti-gun extremists are really up to.

 
 
 
Tessylo
2.2.20  Tessylo  replied to  Freedom Warrior @2.2.19    3 weeks ago

Well please do provide what you've seen here and elsewhere.  I'm just dying to hear it.

 
 
 
Tessylo
2.2.21  Tessylo  replied to  Tessylo @2.2.20    3 weeks ago

What is it exactly that the 'anti-gun extrmists' are up to?  Do tell.

 
 
 
Tessylo
2.2.22  Tessylo  replied to  Freedom Warrior @2.2.3    3 weeks ago

Who  are those 'murderous illegal alien criminals '?  

 
 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
2.2.24  Mark in Wyoming  replied to  Texan1211 @2.2.11    3 weeks ago

Hell I did a quick wiki search , USA came in at 94 with a per capita rate of 5.30 per 100k.

The majority of those with higher rates per capita ended up being in Africa, central America , and the carribean. 

The one that surprised me was Greenland , per capita rate of 5.31

 
 
 
Tessylo
2.2.25  Tessylo  replied to  Texan1211 @2.2.23    3 weeks ago
(deleted)
 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
2.2.26  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Tessylo @2.2.22    3 weeks ago

I take your ?

 
 
 
Tessylo
2.2.27  Tessylo  replied to  Freedom Warrior @2.2.26    3 weeks ago

So you have no answer.  Par for the course 

 
 
 
MUVA
2.2.28  MUVA  replied to  Tessylo @2.2.21    3 weeks ago
 
 
 
Tessylo
2.2.29  Tessylo  replied to  MUVA @2.2.28    3 weeks ago

What the fuck is wrong about banning assault weapons.  Try again

 
 
 
Texan1211
2.2.30  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @2.2.25    3 weeks ago
So you have four instances.

Had you actually bothered to READ the sources I provided, you would know how silly "four instances" is.

Just click on the FIRST source and read it. Then get back to me about "four instances".

jrSmiley_78_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
2.2.31  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Tessylo @2.2.27    3 weeks ago

You should try playing on a better course.

 
 
 
Tessylo
2.2.32  Tessylo  replied to  Freedom Warrior @2.2.31    3 weeks ago

You should

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
2.2.33  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Tessylo @2.2.32    3 weeks ago

Come on over to Russia. We play then.

Or perhaps you would prefer my home course, site of the US Open in 2021.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
2.2.34  XDm9mm  replied to  Tessylo @2.2.29    3 weeks ago
What the fuck is wrong about banning assault weapons. 

"What the fuck is wrong" is that only the MILITARY and some LAW ENFORCEMENT agencies have "assault weapons".

Are you proposing disarming the military and law enforcement?

 
 
 
Tessylo
2.2.35  Tessylo  replied to  Texan1211 @2.2.30    3 weeks ago

Right wing extremists/domestic terrorists have the highest death toll over your 'illegal aliens'

 
 
 
Tessylo
2.2.36  Tessylo  replied to  XDm9mm @2.2.34    3 weeks ago

I was responding to MUVA.  Take it up with him

 
 
 
Tessylo
2.2.37  Tessylo  replied to  Freedom Warrior @2.2.33    3 weeks ago

Russia?  Surprise surprise!

 
 
 
XDm9mm
2.2.38  XDm9mm  replied to  Tessylo @2.2.35    3 weeks ago
Right wing extremists/domestic terrorists have the highest death toll over your 'illegal aliens'

ONE death by an illegal alien invader lowlife scumbag thug is one too many.  Regardless of total numbers.

 
 
 
Texan1211
2.2.39  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @2.2.35    3 weeks ago

Why are you attempting to change the subject after I gave you exactly what you asked for?

I am still amazed that you didn't know what illegal alien murderers are!

And that you think all guns must be registered!

 
 
 
XDm9mm
2.2.40  XDm9mm  replied to  Tessylo @2.2.36    3 weeks ago
I was responding to MUVA.  Take it up with him

I was responding to you.

Answer the question or run away.  As usual.

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
2.2.41  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Tessylo @2.2.35    3 weeks ago
Right wing extremists/domestic terrorists have the highest death toll over your 'illegal aliens'

jrSmiley_86_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Tessylo
2.2.42  Tessylo  replied to  XDm9mm @2.2.40    3 weeks ago

I was talking to him, not you and killing time.  I have better things to do right now so toodles.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
2.2.43  XDm9mm  replied to  Tessylo @2.2.42    3 weeks ago
I was talking to him, not you

Run away, run away, as usual, run away.

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
2.2.44  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Tessylo @2.2.37    3 weeks ago

You'll love it there.  They have dictators, communists and secret police.  The whole nine kilometers.

 
 
 
Texan1211
2.2.45  Texan1211  replied to  XDm9mm @2.2.40    3 weeks ago

jrSmiley_9_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Texan1211
2.2.46  Texan1211  replied to  XDm9mm @2.2.43    3 weeks ago

Not everyone likes facts.

jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
MrFrost
2.2.47  MrFrost  replied to  Texan1211 @2.2.11    3 weeks ago
I can find 10 countries with higher gun death rates than the US.

Cool, so that makes it ok here? 

 
 
 
Texan1211
2.2.48  Texan1211  replied to  MrFrost @2.2.47    3 weeks ago
Cool, so that makes it ok here?

Did you read where I posted that?

Say, is it cool that Britain is exiting the EU?

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
2.2.49  Mark in Wyoming  replied to  XDm9mm @2.2.34    3 weeks ago
What the fuck is wrong" is that only the MILITARY and some LAW ENFORCEMENT agencies have "assault weapons".
here I will disagree, what the military and LEO have are classified as "Assault RIFLES" which there is a history  of the definition of, one of the important prerequisites is that it be capable of select fire capability.
 the term "assault weapon , only came into the American lexicon in about 1994 to describe weapons other than fall under the Assault rifle definition, The so called 94 ban did NOT ban any of the look alike semi auto versions because of the grandfather clause , they were still available , could still be sold and possessed, the only thing that the ban did was increase the price when it WAS sold. the same as what happens when legally owned assault RIFLES are sold , the price goes up due to availability.
Another problem with the 94 ban was it was based mainly on cosmetics and a certain number of cosmetic features that had nothing to do with how the firearm operated , to become a non banned item one simply needed to limit the cosmetic features on any particular firearm.
 
 
 
WallyW
2.2.50  WallyW  replied to  XDm9mm @2.2.43    3 weeks ago

The 'ignore' feature is very helpful.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
2.2.51  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Freedom Warrior @2.2.41    3 weeks ago

@ Freedom Warrior. 

Please describe for me what the YouTuibe you posted depicts.  I cannot open it but am required to moderate my seed.  

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
2.2.52  Mark in Wyoming  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @2.2.51    3 weeks ago

Its a video clip from the AHHHNOLD and Jamie lee movie true lies....

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
2.2.53  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @2.2.52    3 weeks ago

Hey, I enjoyed that movie.  Thanks, Mark.

 
 
 
MrFrost
2.2.54  MrFrost  replied to  Texan1211 @2.2.23    3 weeks ago

So Americans killing fellow Americans is ok, but illegals killing Americans is bad...

Got it, sound logic...

jrSmiley_88_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Texan1211
2.2.55  Texan1211  replied to  MrFrost @2.2.54    3 weeks ago
So Americans killing fellow Americans is ok, but illegals killing Americans is bad...
Got it, sound logic...

Nobody except you stated that nonsense.

Is this typical--make it like someone said something, and then argue it?

[deleted]

And if you think THAT is "sound logic", I truly feel sorry for you.

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
2.2.56  Freedom Warrior  replied to  MrFrost @2.2.54    3 weeks ago

 Yeah that’s what  Emmanuel decided in Chicago I believe BHO is all down with that too 

 
 
 
Tessylo
2.2.57  Tessylo  replied to  Freedom Warrior @2.2.41    3 weeks ago

What the fuck does a clip from an Arnold Schwarzanager movie have to do with anything?

 
 
 
Tessylo
2.2.58  Tessylo  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @2.2.53    3 weeks ago

You should have marked it off topic, since it is.  

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
2.2.59  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Tessylo @2.2.58    3 weeks ago

LOL. You're telling me how to run my seeds/articles?  jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

You got anything other than disparaging Trump?

 
 
 
Tessylo
2.2.60  Tessylo  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @2.2.59    3 weeks ago

What isn't there to disparage the 'president' about?

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
2.2.61  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Tessylo @2.2.60    3 weeks ago

Now, see?  I could flag you as "off topic" and didn't.  You're helping to keep my seed up front. 

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
2.3  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Dean Moriarty @2    3 weeks ago

The difference is that I choose to smoke.  I however would not have a choice to die by another's hand with a gun.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
2.3.1  XDm9mm  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @2.3    3 weeks ago
I however would not have a choice to die by another's hand with a gun.

Or a knife, or a vehicle, or a baseball bat, or......  but you get the picture.

The OBJECT used by a lowlife scumbag thug(ette) intent on killing you is immaterial.  It's the INDIVIDUAL responsible.  Not the 'tool' used.

 
 
 
MrFrost
2.3.2  MrFrost  replied to  XDm9mm @2.3.1    3 weeks ago
or a vehicle, or a baseball bat, or

Which of these items is designed to SPECIFICALLY designed to kill people? 

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
2.3.3  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  XDm9mm @2.3.1    3 weeks ago

As this is about gun violence, I didn't include alternative weapons into my comment.  Yes, it is the person who kills, but there is less of a chance of them killing you without a weapon, but a weapon ups the ante.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
2.3.4  XDm9mm  replied to  MrFrost @2.3.2    3 weeks ago
Which of these items is designed to SPECIFICALLY designed to kill people? 

Are you claiming that all guns are designed SPECIFICALLY to kill people?

[Deleted]

 
 
 
XDm9mm
2.3.5  XDm9mm  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @2.3.3    3 weeks ago
As this is about gun violence

YOU made the comparison to choose not to smoke.....   I made the comparison to being killed by other means.

but there is less of a chance of them killing you without a weapon, but a weapon ups the ante.

ANYTHING can be a weapon.  ANYTHING.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
2.3.6  Greg Jones  replied to  MrFrost @2.3.2    3 weeks ago

Tell us how more and 'stricter' gun laws and universal background check would prevent more shootings.

Remember, criminals and people intent on killing other people will most likely not obey any laws. Almost all the mass shooters were able to illegally get weapons. Or had no legal or police records.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
2.3.7  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  XDm9mm @2.3.5    3 weeks ago

Actually, I made the comparison to smoke, but I see where you are coming from and it is one of the nicer debates we have had.  jrSmiley_100_smiley_image.jpg

 
 
 
MrFrost
2.3.8  MrFrost  replied to  XDm9mm @2.3.4    3 weeks ago
Are you claiming that all guns are designed SPECIFICALLY to kill people?

What other specific purposes do they have? I have 8 that are designed for target shooting, but their original purpose is to shoot at other living things. 

 
 
 
MrFrost
2.3.9  MrFrost  replied to  XDm9mm @2.3.5    3 weeks ago
ANYTHING can be a weapon.  ANYTHING.

True, but how many times have you heard of someone murdering someone else with a full auto salt shaker? That asshole in Vegas....what he shooting people with Nerf rockets? No. 

 
 
 
XDm9mm
2.3.10  XDm9mm  replied to  MrFrost @2.3.8    3 weeks ago
I have 8 that are designed for target shooting, but their original purpose is to shoot at other living things.

If they were DESIGNED for target shooting, they were NOT/NOT designed for shooting living things.  See how simple that was?

 
 
 
XDm9mm
2.3.11  XDm9mm  replied to  MrFrost @2.3.9    3 weeks ago
True,

You should have stopped there.  Your response went down hill after that.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
2.3.12  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  XDm9mm @2.3.5    3 weeks ago

Yes, anything can be a weapon, and I don't think it's valid to compare a gun to a machete or a baseball bat or a pitchfork because they cannot be used at a distance enabling the user to be free of interference from carrying out their intention.  Better to compare a gun to a bow and arrow or hand grenade when speaking of a person having a chance to defend themrselves. 

 
 
 
XDm9mm
2.3.13  XDm9mm  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @2.3.12    3 weeks ago
and I don't think it's valid to compare a gun to a machete or a baseball bat or a pitchfork because they cannot be used at a distance enabling the user to be free of interference from carrying out their intention

The vast majority of shootings occur using handguns, which are generally up close and personal.   The BS people see in the movies of some guy with a revolver shooting someone between the eyes at 100 yards is just that, Hollywood BS.  In fact, more people are killed by crazies using hammers and bats than are killed by crazies using rifles.

However, if distance is the criteria, I can put a bolt (cross bow) or an arrow (traditional or compound bow) in the kill zone at a sufficient distance to not even be seen.  As an added benefit, there would be no noise to give away my position, essentially leaving me free to drop numerous targets before they even realized they were being targeted.

The point is, regardless of the TOOL used, it is the intention and responsibility of the individual involved.

Drunk drivers kill thousands of people.   Neither alcohol nor the vehicle is the responsible.

A criminal kills people with a gun, it's the gun.

 
 
 
Sparty On
2.3.14  Sparty On  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @2.3    3 weeks ago
I however would not have a choice to die by another's hand with a gun.

Get the guns out of the hands of criminals and/or anyone who plans to own/use the weapon illegally.

Leave law abiding citizens alone.   You have little to fear from them.  

 
 
 
MrFrost
2.4  MrFrost  replied to  Dean Moriarty @2    3 weeks ago
Good news relatively small numbers

Compared to other countries? It's appalling especially since the right continues with their, "more guns means less crime" bullshit. If that were true, we would have NO gun violence at all given there is literally one gun for every man, woman and child is the USA. 

FFS, a gal from Australia visiting the USA called 911 and she was shot and killed by the police. 

And please, dean, spare me the, "well mental health....blah blah blah", BS. Other countries have mentally ill people and they don't have nearly the gun violence we have. 

We have more mass shootings in a month than Australia has had in the last 25 years. 

 
 
 
XDm9mm
2.4.1  XDm9mm  replied to  MrFrost @2.4    3 weeks ago
We have more mass shootings in a month than Australia has had in the last 25 years. 

And Australia has no where near the population we do either.  Is there something else?

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
2.4.2  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  XDm9mm @2.4.1    3 weeks ago

Australia took control of the problem with their laws.  Guns are too rampant here and Australia doesn't have the NRA to butt heads with.

 
 
 
Tessylo
2.4.3  Tessylo  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @2.4.2    3 weeks ago

Thank you for the facts.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
2.4.4  XDm9mm  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @2.4.2    3 weeks ago
Guns are too rampant here and Australia doesn't have the NRA to butt heads with.

Guns are too rampant here

That's YOUR belief.

and Australia doesn't have the NRA to butt heads with.

I simply had to make the necessary correction to your misguided theory as follows 'and Australia doesn't have the US CONSTITUTION to butt heads with.'

 
 
 
MrFrost
2.4.5  MrFrost  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @2.4.2    3 weeks ago
Australia took control of the problem with their laws.

Exactly. 

Guns are too rampant here and Australia doesn't have the NRA to butt heads with.

I own many guns, and I was once an NRA member, not anymore. The gun lobby feeds on gun violence. It's a very simple concept. 

Someone goes bat shit crazy and mows down a few kids in a school. The NRA tells people that in order to be safe, you should buy more guns, which means there are more shootings, which means they sell more guns to "keep people safe", which causes more gun violence.... The NRA is broke, NRA tv is gone, it's leadership is in chaos, which is a good thing. 

I support the 2nd amendment, but the level of violence we have here in the USA with regards to guns is out of control. Two years ago, there was a murder in a duplex because one tennent adjusted the thermostat. The neighbor grabbed his .45 and blew his neighbor away. We are quickly becoming a nation where any and all issues can be cured by simply shooting someone. To me? That's incredibly sad. 

 
 
 
MrFrost
2.4.6  MrFrost  replied to  XDm9mm @2.4.4    3 weeks ago
Guns are too rampant here That's YOUR belief.

320 million guns in the hands of private citizens. But that's not rampant? Really? 

 
 
 
XDm9mm
2.4.7  XDm9mm  replied to  MrFrost @2.4.6    3 weeks ago
320 million guns in the hands of private citizens. But that's not rampant? Really? 

Nope.  If those roughly 100 million people with roughly 300 million guns were the problem, YOU WOULD KNOW IT.  But, we're not.

You're trying to infringe on the rights of roughly 100 million people for the actions of less than .0004% of those people that own guns legally and illegally.

Do that with ANY other demographic and see what the result of that action would be.  

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
2.4.8  Freedom Warrior  replied to  XDm9mm @2.4.7    3 weeks ago

So what have we learned here.

That millions of gun owners supported by the 2nd Amendment are far more responsible than many of those that choose to smoke cigarettes and drive automobiles.

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
2.4.9  Mark in Wyoming  replied to  MrFrost @2.4.6    3 weeks ago
320 million guns in the hands of private citizens.

I actually think that number is on the low side.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
2.4.10  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  XDm9mm @2.4.4    3 weeks ago

That too.

 
 
 
livefreeordie
2.4.11  livefreeordie  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @2.4.9    3 weeks ago

Yes, new estimates are closer to 400 million and that is probably low. The average gun owner has at least two amnd often an assortment including handguns, shotguns, and long guns. 

My sister who is very liberal has 3- a glock, a 12guage, and a 22 Remington long gun. All for protection on the 10 acres she lives on. Coyotes, mountain lions, rattlesnakes, and bobcats are animal predators. Thieves come in the area looking for weak properties to rob.   Law enforcement is about 30 minutes away

i wont say she likes having them, but I respect her for understanding her necessity of having them

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
2.4.12  Mark in Wyoming  replied to  livefreeordie @2.4.11    3 weeks ago

I will go one further , I think that the actual number of people that have a firearm is WAAAAY north of the estimates being mentioned , some folks tend to think what others don't know wont hurt until one has to let it be known. in other words , they don't think its anyones business but their own.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
2.4.13  XDm9mm  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @2.4.12    3 weeks ago
I think that the actual number of people that have a firearm is WAAAAY north of the estimates being mentioned ,

I would agree with that.

First, as you note there are a whole bunch of honest people that don't thinks it's the business of anyone else, including the government, knowing what they have.

And there are the criminal elements that we know don't want anyone knowing what they have.

And of course the illegal alien invaders, many of whom are essentially law biding other than breaking the law coming here in the first place that sure as hell don't want us knowing not only who they are much less what they have.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
2.4.14  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @2.4.2    3 weeks ago

I believe that New Zealand has started to follow Australia's example concerning the turning in of weapons. It just took one mass shooting there to convince them to do it. 

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
2.4.15  Mark in Wyoming  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @2.4.14    3 weeks ago

yes they have , Aus and NZ also only have 13th the population of the US , roughly 30 million together , verses 400 mill in the Us , basically  the size of a major metro city with its suburbs in the US, heck even Canada only has a population of about 37.4 million, my point being is it is easier to do with a smaller population than a larger one , unless of course , a larger population base has an authoritarian government , and a military force compliant to that government. The other drawback would be that firearm ownership is viewed as a right guaranteed in the Constitution , and not a privilege at the whims of the government here in the US.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
2.4.16  XDm9mm  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @2.4.15    3 weeks ago
a larger population base has an authoritarian government

Like Communist China?

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
2.4.17  Mark in Wyoming  replied to  XDm9mm @2.4.16    3 weeks ago

I don't think that dig was nessisary XD , but it does hold true, with a population of 1.4 BILLION, that's twice the US population, to keep the populus under control  the government has to have a compliant military that would take the governments orders and an authoritarian government  and disarmament of individuals  is possible .

 
 
 
MrFrost
2.4.18  MrFrost  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @2.4.17    3 weeks ago

Well, we are a nation of 325 million...so, China is a bit over 4x our size with regards to population... Not trying to pick at ya, just pointing it out. 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
2.4.19  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @2.4.17    3 weeks ago

Not just possible - only the miltary, police and bank cash delivery staff have guns here in China.  I feel safer from being shot here than I even did in Canada, which does have relatively srict gun controls. 

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
2.4.20  Mark in Wyoming  replied to  MrFrost @2.4.18    3 weeks ago

Ok I rounded up considerably and admit it , did make the math easier. but the points still do stand about what I have said about relative sizes of populations and what would be needed to get desired effects . and the end point is that the conditions that would be needed for the disarmament of the US populus , are no where near being optimum to do so , we have a population against it , a military that likely would not enforce  if they tried , half would likely walk away , that's not even mentioning what those in LEO would do for differing reasons., and a government , hard as they try cant legislate their desires that the people will obey or that fits to conform with the current constitution. .

 
 
 
MrFrost
2.4.21  MrFrost  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @2.4.20    3 weeks ago

Fair enough, like I said, wasn't trying to be an asshole. 

One stat I saw about Hong Kong? In 2017, not even one gun related murder. 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
3  seeder  Buzz of the Orient    3 weeks ago

Does dying from getting smashed in the head by a rifle or pistol butt count?

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
4  Mark in Wyoming    3 weeks ago

I would have to take this information with a very large grain of salt.

 It is nice to see they don't count suicides as gun violence though, that's more of a mental health issue not a gun issue.

A few things I think would be in the "don't count" catagories :

Lawful use of deadly force by a police officer

Lawful use of deadly force by a non LEO ie self defense or defense of  others

It could be debated if accidental shootings is actually gun violence or not

Other questions is what is the break down of criminal on criminal violence?

How many of these incidents are uses during illegal activities?

How many of these incidents involve lawful and legal possession of firearms in said jurisdictions?

Personally I don't think its the guns that are the problem , The US has a population of about 400 million (est) , of that about 100 million + (est) legally own  guns ,and that it is estimated that there is enough guns to arm every man woman and child in the country with about a billion rounds of ammunition( conservative guess) in the hands of those legal gun owners, If the guns and ammunition in the hands of those that legally have them were the problem , I think we all would know it by now.

Its not a gun problem , its a people problem and how they think they can use them.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
4.1  XDm9mm  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @4    3 weeks ago
I would have to take this information with a very large grain of salt.

Grain of salt?  More like a new cattle salt lick.

 It is nice to see they don't count suicides as gun violence though, that's more of a mental health issue not a gun issue.

Deleted...   I just saw the suicides not included.   Oop's my bad.

A few things I think would be in the "don't count" catagories :

Lawful use of deadly force by a police officer

Lawful use of deadly force by a non LEO ie self defense or defense of  others

To anti-gunners, many believe even the police should be disarmed.

It could be debated if accidental shootings is actually gun violence or not

I don't believe in 'accidental shootings'.  Any time a firearm is discharged without the person knowing the INTENDED target, is negligence.

Other questions is what is the break down of criminal on criminal violence? How many of these incidents are uses during illegal activities?

Also, how many are of previously convicted felons?  The recidivism rate is pretty high.  Here's a study done by ILLINOIS CRIMINAL JUSTICE INFORMATION AUTHORITY and recidivism rates are pretty astounding.  In the area of 70%.  http://www.icjia.state.il.us/articles/examining-the-recidivism-of-firearm-offenders-using-state-criminal-history-and-mortality-data

How many of these incidents involve lawful and legal possession of firearms in said jurisdictions?
Personally I don't think its the guns that are the problem , The US has a population of about 400 million (est) , of that about 100 million + (est) legally own  guns ,and that it is estimated that there is enough guns to arm every man woman and child in the country with about a billion rounds of ammunition( conservative guess) in the hands of those legal gun owners, If the guns and ammunition in the hands of those that legally have them were the problem , I think we all would know it by now.

When you look at the numbers, the gun violence totals comes out to less than .004% gun owners both legal and illegal.

Its not a gun problem , its a people problem and how they think they can use them.

It's always a people problem.  A gun is an inanimate object totally incapable of operating on it's own volition.  It ALWAYS requires the human element to operate.

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
4.1.1  Mark in Wyoming  replied to  XDm9mm @4.1    3 weeks ago

22,000 Annual Suicides not included on Daily Summary Ledger

right in the main body at the end of the print , just before the charts start, simply going off whats there.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
4.1.2  XDm9mm  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @4.1.1    3 weeks ago
right in the main body at the end of the print , just before the charts start, simply going off whats there.

Yeah I caught that after I posted.  Oop's.

Obviously I went back and made the correction!!  

THANKS!!

I need more coffee!!!

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
4.2  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @4    3 weeks ago

I used to manage a gun range so I got used to responsible shooters.

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
4.2.1  Mark in Wyoming  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @4.2    3 weeks ago

I think there is a major difference in "Gun range carry" and every day " personal carry".

 I was raised around and handled firearms from a young age( dad and grandfathers started me about 5 years old with a Crossman bb gun, and still have that worn out old thing 52 years later) , carried every day on duty for the better part of 10+ years  in the service .  I still enjoy going out to fire a few rounds , even though I do not do it competitively anymore , still think even after all these years that  it is up to the person  how they use something and not the thing itself that has the responsibility for what happens .

 
 
 
devangelical
5  devangelical    3 weeks ago

I think it's interesting that map to map shows the majority of incidents occur in the bible belt.

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
5.1  Mark in Wyoming  replied to  devangelical @5    3 weeks ago

and on the east coast east of the Mississippi.

 
 
 
Dean Moriarty
5.2  Dean Moriarty  replied to  devangelical @5    3 weeks ago

Interesting how nicely those red dots line up with the blue districts in our home state of Colorado. Look at that the liberal front range and Denver area is lit up like a Christmas tree. 

 
 
 
devangelical
5.2.1  devangelical  replied to  Dean Moriarty @5.2    3 weeks ago

look closer. Ft.Collins, Colorado Springs, and the western slope are red, and total more than the number of dots over the Denver metro area which has the largest portion of our state population. Most of the school shootings in Colorado have happened in republican held counties. bummer, huh?

 
 
 
Tessylo
5.2.2  Tessylo  replied to  devangelical @5.2.1    3 weeks ago

BINGO!  Shhhhh, they don't like the facts.

 
 
 
JBB
5.2.3  JBB  replied to  Dean Moriarty @5.2    3 weeks ago

Colorado Springs is arguably the most hardcore bastion of conservatism!

 
 
 
devangelical
5.2.4  devangelical  replied to  JBB @5.2.3    3 weeks ago

it's basically the bible belt in this state with focus on the family based there along with a few other religious based money laundering scams. Ft.Collins sits among the tea party sewage settling pond up north.

 
 
 
JBB
5.2.5  JBB  replied to  devangelical @5.2.4    3 weeks ago

I visited there and it felt like I had been transported a fictional Gilead!

 
 
 
Greg Jones
5.2.6  Greg Jones  replied to  devangelical @5.2.1    3 weeks ago

Which has absolutely nothing to do with it. The gun grabbers should really love this new law. It's got a lot of problems besides be unconstitutional.

https://www.ammoland.com/2018/05/red-flag-bill-passes-the-colorado-house-and-heads-to-the-senate/#axzz5uzXa1uPi

https://conservativefiringline.com/colorado-red-flag-law-guilty-until-proven-innocent/

 
 
 
Tessylo
5.2.7  Tessylo  replied to  Greg Jones @5.2.6    3 weeks ago

Of course it does!

 
 
 
devangelical
5.2.8  devangelical  replied to  Greg Jones @5.2.6    3 weeks ago

Dick Blister will probably go blind jerking that topic off every weekday from 5-9am on that religious cult owned 5000 watt am radio powerhouse. it's obvious that a brain destroyed by alcohol and cocaine and continuing to promote birtherism and the tea party is now the new local conservative oracle of truth. this current local paranoia replaces the secret muslim/socialist/marxist memes that morons with room temperature IQ's fall for hook, line, and sinker.... repeatedly.

I own guns. I grew up with them. people that say or do stupid things with guns deserve to lose them. stupid people are the reason I have guns. if the local conservative consensus truly believes that red flag bullshit, turn me in. 

 
 
 
devangelical
5.2.9  devangelical  replied to  JBB @5.2.5    3 weeks ago

a beautiful city, but you're surrounded on 3 sides by brain washed morons

 
 
 
WallyW
5.2.10  WallyW  replied to  devangelical @5.2.8    3 weeks ago

?

 
 
 
livefreeordie
6  livefreeordie    3 weeks ago

Most cities and counties in America have none or virtually no gun violence.  In much of the country where there are higher rates of gun ownership, the data shows there are ZERO gun murders

The Data shows that the majority of gun violence occurs in cities and counties controlled for decades (or longer) by Democrats.

“Murders in US very concentrated: 54% of US counties in 2014 had zero murders, 2% of counties have 51% of the murders

In 2014, the most recent year that a county-level breakdown is available, 54% of counties (with 11% of the population) have no murders.  69% of counties have no more than one murder, and about 20% of the population. These counties account for only 4% of all murders in the country.

The worst 1% of counties have 19% of the population and 37% of the murders. The worst 2% of counties contain 28% of the population and 51% of the murders. The worst 5% of counties contain 47% of the population and account for 68% of murders. But even within those counties the murders are very heavily concentrated in small areas.

Murders actually used to be even more concentrated.  From 1977 to 2000, on average 73 percent of counties in any given year had zero murders. Possibly, this change is a result of the opioid epidemic’s spread to more rural areas. But that question is beyond the scope of this study.  Lott’s book “More Guns, Less Crime” showed how dramatically counties within states vary dramatically with respect to murder and other violent crime rates.

Breaking down the most dangerous counties in Figure 2 shows over half the murders occur in just 2% of the counties, 37% in just the worst 1% of the counties.

When you look at individual counties with a high number of murders, you find large areas with few murders. Take Los Angeles County, with 526 murders in 2014, the most of any county in the US. The county has virtually no murders in the northwestern part of the county. There was only one murder each in Beverly Hills, Hawthorne, and Van Nuys. Clearly, different parts of the county face very different risks of murder.

Here are Chicago’s murders through the first 4.5 months of 2017 (there were 222 homicides by that point).  One small neighborhood, Austin, accounts over 25 murders.  But 23 of the 77 neighborhoods in the city have zero murders, and most of the 40 neighborhoods in orange have only one murder.  Twelve of the neighborhoods have 10 or more murders.

According to a 2013 PEW Research Center survey, the household gun ownership rate in rural areas was 2.11 times greater than in urban areas (“Why Own a Gun? Protection is Now Top Reason,” PEW Research Center, March 12, 2013).   Suburban households are 28.6% more likely to own guns than urban households. Despite lower gun ownership, urban areas experience much higher murder rates. One should not put much weight on this purely “cross-sectional” evidence over one point in time and many factors determine murder rates, but it is still interesting to note that so much of the country has both very high gun ownership rates and zero murders.”j

https://crimeresearch.org/2017/04/number-murders-county-54-us-counties-2014-zero-murders-69-1-murder/

 
 
 
JBB
6.1  JBB  replied to  livefreeordie @6    3 weeks ago

Yean, EXCEPT THAT, almost all Americans today have choosen to live in our big cities and not out in bumfuck in some godforsaken cult compound! Most of America is a deserted No Man's Land. So, of course, most crimes happen where most people live. The only reason many small remote rural hamlets even still exist anymore is as bastions for oddball fundamentalist small c christian evangelical fundie cults where just about everybody is armed to the teeth and yet there are still lots and lots and lots of incidences of gun violence, Murders, "Accidental Shootings" and especially Suisides, just not as many on most days as there are in say LA or NYC...

 
 
 
XDm9mm
6.1.1  XDm9mm  replied to  JBB @6.1    3 weeks ago
Yean EXCEPT THAT

And "except that" the vast majority of those murders/shootings happen within pretty specific geographic areas within the metropolitan areas.  Another factor often overlooked is the sheer numbers of recidivists responsible for those killings/shootings.

As you noted, there will obviously be more criminal activity in some parts of the country as opposed to others purely by reason of the numbers of people living there.  But, invariably, the vast majority of that activity is almost always concentrated in pretty specific areas.

 
 
 
livefreeordie
6.1.2  livefreeordie  replied to  JBB @6.1    3 weeks ago

[Deleted] Yes Rural Americans are only 19% of the population but only 19% of Evangelicals live in rural areas. 

you also ignore the data I posted showing that the largest percentage of gun violence occurs in just a few American cities and even then it is is a small segment of those cities

I’m currently staying  in Arizonawhere many areas you see open carry. We see virtually no gun violence except in bad areas of Phoenix and Tucson where you see gangs and drug dealing

 
 
 
JBB
6.1.3  JBB  replied to  XDm9mm @6.1.1    3 weeks ago

Yeah, except that, in Colorado and Idaho and Nevada and Utah all of those specific areas just so happen to be in hotbeds of white nationalist evangelical fundamentalism which pretty much blows all your [Deleted]

 
 
 
XDm9mm
6.1.4  XDm9mm  replied to  JBB @6.1.3    3 weeks ago
which pretty much blows all your Removed for context - s .

Please EXPLICITLY show me where I indicated ANY city.  ONE specific reference will be sufficient.  Just one, you CAN do that can't you?

And you dare call me racist.

 
 
 
JBB
6.1.5  JBB  replied to  livefreeordie @6.1.2    3 weeks ago

So What? I live in the Bronx and have never ever seen an incidence of gun violence! Of course, just about nobody goes about here carrying a goddamn gun except for law enforcement because it is not legal and our gun laws are being enforced here now resulting in the incidence of gun violence being the lowest it has been since the 1950s...

Everybody has a personal anecdote. Yours are not special and do not represent everyone everywhere any more than mine do!

 
 
 
JBB
6.1.6  JBB  replied to  XDm9mm @6.1.4    3 weeks ago

I never called you a racist butt I did say that you espoused a racist theory!

If not, then what in hell were you alluding to other than olde racist tropes?

 
 
 
XDm9mm
6.1.7  XDm9mm  replied to  JBB @6.1.5    3 weeks ago
I live in the Bronx and have never ever seen an incidence of gun violence!

Never heard of Fort Apache?  (granted likely before your time.) 

The Bronx, well at least parts of it, have gone through a renaissance of sorts.   And yes things HAVE gotten better for most of the borough.  But try this on for size:

Murder rates in New York City are up 55 percent in 2019 compared to the same time frame in 2018, according to NYPD statistics. Source:  https://www.foxnews.com/us/murder-rate-rises-55-in-new-york-city

Now, is that indicative of your specific area?  Who knows, do you?

 
 
 
livefreeordie
6.1.8  livefreeordie  replied to  JBB @6.1    3 weeks ago

Most cities and counties outside of Democrat controlled cities and counties have virtually no gun violence to ZERO 

yet we own most of the firearms in America and commit almost none of the crimes of any kind, much less gun violence

Truth about gun violence

“America is relatively safe, and the trend is toward becoming safer.

According to the National Crime Victimization Survey, violent crime has been declining steadily since the early 1990s.

The 2011 homicide rate was almost half of the rate in 1991, and according to Pew Research, the 2013 gun-related death rate was half of the rate in 1993.

The number of non-fatal firearm crimes committed in 2011 was one-sixth the number committed in 1993.

In the past few years, there have been minor increases in certain types of violent crimes, mainly in large metropolitan areas. However, these increases are nowhere near those seen in the 1990s and are largely related to gang activity.

It should be remembered that it takes at least three to five years of data to show true trend lines. It appears that the collective homicide toll for America’s 50 largest cities decreased modestly in 2017 after two consecutive years of increases.”

Most gun-related crimes are carried out with illegally owned firearms—as much as 80 percent according to some estimates.

The FBI’s Uniform Crime Reports prove that the overwhelming majority of gun-related homicides are perpetrated with handguns, with rifles of any kind accounting for less than 3 percent of gun-related homicides. In 2013, 5,782 murders were committed by killers who used a handgun, compared to 285 committed by killers who used a rifle. The same holds true for 2012 (6,404 to 298); 2011 (6,251 to 332); 2010 (6,115 to 367); and 2009 (6,501 to 351).

More people are stabbed to death every year than are murdered with rifles.

A person is more likely to be bludgeoned to death with a blunt object or beaten to death with hands and feet than to be murdered with a rifle.

The perpetration of gun-related murders is often carried out by predictable people.

According to studies, almost all mass public shooters have extensive histories of mental health issues (whether delusional/psychiatric or depression/anger), disturbing behaviors, or interpersonal violence.

Intimate partner conflict and domestic violence history are major risk factors for homicide-suicides, even for those not involving intimate partners.

Especially in urban areas, a small number of recidivist violent offendersare typically responsible for the majority of gun violence.

Legally owned firearms are used for lawful purposes much more often than they are used to commit crimes or suicide.

In 2013, President Barack Obama ordered the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) to assess existing research on gun violence. The report, compiled by the Institute of Medicine and the National Research Council, found (among other things) that firearms are used defensively hundreds of thousands of times every year.

According to the CDC, “self-defense can be an important crime deterrent.” Recent CDC reports acknowledge that studies directly assessing the effect of actual defensive uses of guns have found “consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies.”

Semi-automatic rifles (such as the AR-15) are commonly used as self-defense weapons in the homes of law-abiding citizens because they are easier to control than handguns, are more versatile than handguns, and offer the advantage of up to 30 rounds of protection. Even Vox has published stories defending the use of the AR-15.

AR-15s have been used to save lives on many occasions, including:

Oswego, Illinois (2018) — A man with an AR-15 intervened to stop a neighbor’s knife attack and cited the larger weapon’s “intimidation factor” as a reason why the attacker dropped the knife.

Catawba County, North Carolina (2018) — A 17-year-old successfully fought off three armed attackers with his AR-15.

Houston, Texas (2017) — A homeowner survived a drive-by shooting by defending himself with his AR-15.

Broken Arrow, Oklahoma (2017) — A homeowner’s son killed three would-be burglars with an AR-15 (the man was later deemed to have acted in justifiable self-defense).

Ferguson, Missouri (2014) — African-American men protected a white man’s store from rioters by standing outside armed with AR-15s.

Texas (2013) — A 15-year-old boy used an AR-15 during a home invasion to save both his life and that of his 12-year-old sister.

Rochester, New York (2013) — Home intruders fled after facing an AR-15.

https://www.heritage.org/crime-and-justice/commentary/here-are-8-stubborn-facts-gun-violence-america

 
 
 
XDm9mm
6.1.9  XDm9mm  replied to  JBB @6.1.6    3 weeks ago
I never called you a racist butt I did say that you espoused a racist theory!

"all your Removed for context - s"  Never?  Really?  Want to reread what you yourself wrote?  It's right there in the first six words of this sentence.

If not, then what in hell were you alluding to other than olde racist tropes?

It's NOT racist to use STATISTICS, and the STATISTICS indicate that the vast preponderance of crime of all kinds are invariably isolated to specific geographic areas within specific metropolitan areas.  If you don't like it, take it up with the FBI.  They gather and compile the STATISTICS from the states and cities and use those STATISTICS to generate the various STATISTICAL tables they provide for the various municipalities and general population to peruse.

 
 
 
JBB
6.1.10  JBB  replied to  XDm9mm @6.1.7    3 weeks ago

Do you believe and share all of the racist propaganda and white nationalist talking points spewn on Fox News? Despite a minor blip gun violence and murders and crime in general are on a sustained decline in NYC thanks to good policing and to getting guns off the streets and out of the hands of everyone including cranks, criminals and gangs. If I was wrong about your intentions then exactly what, other than the specific racial makeup of certain urban areas, were you alluding to? I will await your honest cogent answer...

 
 
 
JBB
6.1.11  JBB  replied to  XDm9mm @6.1.9    3 weeks ago

If you correlate crime, violence, drug and alcohol use and unstable homes to poverty or the lack of good schools or especially to a minority population having historically suffered generations of discrimination you see the same things regardless of race or culture or religion. 

Yes, crime is highest among those suffering inescalpable generational poverty. What in hell does that have to do with the origins of the oppressed? Why, unless you really are just trying, impotently again, to prove that some olde false and long disproven outdated throwback xenophobic racist tropes from the nineteenth century are true?

 
 
 
XDm9mm
6.1.12  XDm9mm  replied to  JBB @6.1.10    3 weeks ago
Do you believe and share all of the racist propaganda and white nationalist talking points spewn on Fox News?

Racist propaganda?  Seriously?  

The information I shared in my post as reported by Fox News was generated by NYPD.

Murder rates in New York City are up 55 percent in 2019 compared to the same time frame in 2018, according to NYPD statistics.

If YOU don't like the salient FACT that NYPD is comparing murder rates from 2018 and 2019 and noting a 55% INCREASE in murder rates between the two years, take it up with the NYPD.

If I was wrong about your intentions then exactly what, other than the specific racial makeup of certain urban areas, were you alluding to? I will await your honest cogent answer...

CRIME is invariably concentrated within specific geographic areas of specific metropolitan areas.  I have no idea of the racial makeup of those areas.

As you come from NY, I'm sure you know "Chinatown", and "Little Italy" and "Hells Gate", or possibly Long Island City, or maybe Astoria, how about Whitestone or Laurel Park?  They are specific areas within a specific metropolitan area.

By the way....   I'm originally from FLATBUSH....  you know where that is don't you?

 
 
 
XDm9mm
6.1.13  XDm9mm  replied to  JBB @6.1.11    3 weeks ago
Yes, crime is highest among those suffering inescalpable generational poverty.

Generational poverty?  Is poverty a genetic issue?   It's the individual that determines if he/she remains in poverty or moves up.

What in hell does that have to do with the origins of the oppressed?

The chip on your shoulder is really starting to show.

Why, unless you really are just trying, impotently again, to prove that some olde false and long disproven outdated throwback xenophobic racist tropes from the nineteenth century are true?

When all else fails, play the tried and true race card.   It's been played and abused too often.

 
 
 
WallyW
6.1.14  WallyW  replied to  JBB @6.1.3    3 weeks ago
Yeah, except that, in Colorado and Idaho and Nevada and Utah all of those specific areas just so happen to be in hotbeds of white nationalist evangelical fundamentalism
Not true. The whole state has gone sanctuary.

 
 
 
Sparty On
6.1.15  Sparty On  replied to  JBB @6.1    3 weeks ago
Yean, EXCEPT THAT, almost all Americans today have choosen to live in our big cities and not out in bumfuck in some godforsaken cult compound!

This mentality more or less defines the disconnect that exists for many in the USA Today.    That some people actually really think this way is amazing to me.

Unbelievable!

I wonder how all those fine big city folks would get along without all the food grown out in “bumfuck” USA.    I suppose they could eat their rats if they could actually catch them.

 
 
 
livefreeordie
7  livefreeordie    3 weeks ago

There is no true liberty unless the people are armed against threats from criminals and government 

"The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."

- Thomas Jefferson, letter to to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824

256

 
 
 
JBB
7.1  JBB  replied to  livefreeordie @7    3 weeks ago

NEWSFLASH! The 1950s were 65 years ago. The people in that olde propaganda poster are ready for olde folks homes if they are not already dead of olde age by now. They damn sure are not still up for starting and fighting a goddamn race war. And besides, the US military would defeat their lousy olde rebel asses in a New York Minute. They'd be wearing Depends riding HoverRounds...

 
 
 
XDm9mm
7.1.1  XDm9mm  replied to  JBB @7.1    3 weeks ago
And besides, the US military would defeat their lousy olde rebel asses in a New York Minute.

Obviously, you're unaware of that little thing called Posse Comitatus Act.  Research it and come back....   "in a New York Minute".

 
 
 
JBB
7.1.2  JBB  replied to  XDm9mm @7.1.1    3 weeks ago

A Posse? NYC is not Dodge City and this is not the 1950s, or the 1880s...

 
 
 
XDm9mm
7.1.3  XDm9mm  replied to  JBB @7.1.2    3 weeks ago

READING IS FUNDAMENTAL!!!!!

Posse Comitatus Act

Here, I'll be nice and give you a helping hand in your search:

The Posse Comitatus Act is a United States federal law signed on June 18, 1878, by President Rutherford B. Hayes. 
Wikipedia
 
 
 
Kavika
7.1.4  Kavika   replied to  XDm9mm @7.1.3    3 weeks ago

There are some exceptions to Posse Comitatus Act.

Exclusions and limitations[edit]

There are a number of situations in which the Act does not apply. These include:

A very interesting part of our history took place in Arkansas. 

I friend of mine (now a neighbor) was a member of the 101st 327th and was part of this operation. 

President Eisenhower Deploys 101st Airborne “Screaming Eagles”

On September 24, 1957, President Dwight D. Eisenhower signed Executive Order 10730. The order federalized the 10,000 member Arkansas National Guard (taking it out of the hands of Faubus) and ordered the Secretary of Defense to employ the Arkansas soldiers as well as federal troops to enforce a federal district court order in Little Rock, Arkansas. Within hours 1,000 soldiers of the 327th Airborne Battle Group of the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/101st_Airborne_Division)">101st Airborne Division deployed to Little Rock from their base in Fort Campbell, Kentucky. That evening, from the White House, the president delivered a nationally televised address in which he explained that he had taken the action to defend the rule of law and prevent “mob rule” and “anarchy.” (Operation Arkansas)

segregationists-101.jpg

As recounted in “The Fifties” by David Halberstam

With the arrival of the 101st, the nation witnessed again a stunning spectacle on TV; elite paratroopers of one of the most honored divisions in the United States Army escorting young black children where once there had been a mob. The soldiers set up their perimeter. Their faces were immobile and, unlike the Guardsmen’s, betrayed no politics, only duty. As they marched in, the clear, sharp sound of their boots clacking on the street was a reminder of their professionalism. When the segregationists in the street protested, the paratroopers turned out to be very different from the National Guard soldiers who had so recently been their pals. The men of the 101st fixed their bayonets and placed them right at the throats of the protesters, quickly moving them out of the school area.

101st-bayonets.png

101st Airborne Officer Escort

The following morning, troops from the 327th surrounded Little Rock Central High School while a small detachment went to pick up nine neatly dressed black teenagers. An Army officer came to Daisy Bate’s house, where the children had gathered, and saluted her. “Mrs. Bates,” he said, “We’re ready for the children. We will return them to your home at three-thirty.” It was, said Minniejean Brown, one of the nine, an exhilarating moment. “For the first time in my life I felt like an American citizen,” she later told Mrs. Bates. After a short drive, the soldiers and their charges reached the school. Staring straight ahead the youngsters formed a single file and, surrounded by some of America’s best soldiers carrying rifles with bayonets fixed, they marched through a jeering crowd into the school to begin the fall term after two previous failed attempts. As the nation and much of the world watched, Central High School became desegregated. The 14th amendment to the United States Constitution, which mandates that no American will be deprived of the equal protection of the laws, had been upheld.

central.jpg

S10609-lg.jpg

Don’t Mess With Us – These Kids Are Going to School!

150px-US_101st_Airborne_Division_patch.p


 

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
7.1.5  Mark in Wyoming  replied to  Kavika @7.1.4    3 weeks ago

That's better than I could have stated it.

But let us look at it as it was presented , use of government troops , to enforce , gun control or gun confiscation.

Personally I don't think those in military uniform would accept or follow orders for confiscation , they come from the very people that they would have to subject to the confiscation and likely would end up having to use deadly force on, so there in lies the grit , deciding if sufficient numbers would actually follow that order and fire on fellow citizens to effect that order if need be. 

But that is something each individual military member would decide for themselves if they ever had to choose.

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
7.2  Freedom Warrior  replied to  livefreeordie @7    3 weeks ago

Anyone that has read analyses of a potential left / right civil war knows that disarming law abiding citizens would most like swing the outcome in favor of the left.

 
 
 
livefreeordie
7.2.1  livefreeordie  replied to  Freedom Warrior @7.2    3 weeks ago

Which is why we will never disarm.  The moment that happens, the communist totalitarians have won and completed the destruction of our Republic 

256

 
 
 
MrFrost
8  MrFrost    3 weeks ago

Florida, in every single graphic has a LOT of red. I visited Florida a few years back, I couldn't get back to the USA fast enough. 

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
9  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh    3 weeks ago

It's our duty to have a Waco size gun collection. AR15s and apple pie!

Our founding fathers knew we'd have to smash a few commie revolutions and engrained the right to defend ourselves in the constitution.

jrSmiley_97_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
10  seeder  Buzz of the Orient    3 weeks ago

My thanks to Sandy for moderating this seed while I was sleeping. I guess I should have locked it, knowing that it would most likely be a controversial topic, but on the other hand I thought the NT membership was generally mature and restrained in their comments.  In that regard I thank you all. 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
11  seeder  Buzz of the Orient    3 weeks ago

There is something to take into consideration when drawing comparisons.  These figures and maps are for ONLY THE FIRST HALF OF 2019.

 
 
 
 
livefreeordie
12.1  livefreeordie  replied to  MrFrost @12    3 weeks ago

A rifle he had illegally.  He was another nutcase mixing his love of being Iranian while hating whites, Jews, and Hispanics, AND posting white anarchist material. One very sick 19 year old

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
12.1.1  Mark in Wyoming  replied to  livefreeordie @12.1    3 weeks ago

how was the rifle illegal? at 19 he could start buying them at 18 , legal age to buy long guns is still 18 on the federal level, and he doesn't even have to buy them in state , they just have to conform to state laws  when he brings them back INTO the state.

 
 
 
livefreeordie
12.1.2  livefreeordie  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @12.1.1    3 weeks ago

Not in CA

Must be 21 to purchase any firearm. An exemption is made for those 18-20 years old who possess a valid hunting license to purchase long guns.

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
12.1.3  Mark in Wyoming  replied to  livefreeordie @12.1.2    3 weeks ago

Thing is he didn't buy it in Ca as we are finding out , he bought it in Nevada  Age for purchasing long guns there is 18 not 21 So he didn't break any law in Ca about purchase age , now , was the AK he bought illegal in Ca ? yes  it was under current law .

 
 
 
XDm9mm
12.1.4  XDm9mm  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @12.1.3    3 weeks ago
Thing is he didn't buy it in Ca as we are finding out , he bought it in Nevada  Age for purchasing long guns there is 18 not 21 So he didn't break any law in Ca about purchase age , now , was the AK he bought illegal in Ca ? yes  it was under current law .

While the rifle is 'legal' in California, that he bought it in Nevada could be illegal, unless he finalized the 'transfer' through a California FFL.   Obviously I don't know if that was accomplished or not, so that's another piece of this story I'd like to know.

1/23/2018
Federal law states that all handguns must be purchased within the state you declare primary residence.  Handguns purchased in Nevada must be transferred to an FFL in your state where you will complete the required background process for that state.  

We can sell long guns, out the door, after background check, to a resident of any state except California.  California residents must ship all firearms to an FFL in CA, the firearm must be legal, on the roster & you must complete the background process in CA.
 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
12.1.5  Mark in Wyoming  replied to  XDm9mm @12.1.4    3 weeks ago

good points , what it will come down to is where he used as a place of residence , his parents in Ca , or his brothers in Nevada right across the state line. still more to be learned as you said.

 
 
 
Sparty On
12.2  Sparty On  replied to  MrFrost @12    3 weeks ago

Links not working for me.   What's it say?

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
13  seeder  Buzz of the Orient    3 weeks ago

Heading for the bedroom now, so as I said above and complimented everyone for their restraint and maturity, I will rely on that and not lock this seed for the night. If I'm proven wrong, then when I wake up I'll lock it for good. 

 
 
 
livefreeordie
14  livefreeordie    3 weeks ago

Not in CA

Must be 21 to purchase any firearm. An exemption is made for those 18-20 years old who possess a valid hunting license to purchase long guns.

 
 
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