Erdogan says Turkey will never declare ceasefire in northern Syria

  
Via:  flynavy1  •  one month ago  •  108 comments

Erdogan says Turkey will never declare ceasefire in northern Syria
President Tayyip Erdogan told U.S. President Donald Trump that Turkey will never declare a ceasefire in northeastern Syria and that it will not negotiate with Kurdish forces it is fighting in its offensive into the region.

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T


ANKARA (Reuters) - President Tayyip Erdogan told U.S. President Donald Trump that Turkey will never declare a ceasefire in northeastern Syria and that it will not negotiate with Kurdish forces it is fighting in its offensive into the region.

Turkey pressed ahead with its offensive against the Syrian Kurdish YPG militia in northern Syria on Tuesday despite U.S. sanctions and calls for it to stop, while Syria’s Russia-backed army moved on the key city of Manbij that was abandoned by U.S. forces.

The YPG, the key component of the forces who fought Islamic State, is seen by Ankara as a terrorist group linked to Kurdish separatist insurgents in Turkey.

On Monday, Trump announced sanctions on Turkey to punish it for the offensive. On Tuesday, a senior U.S. official said Washington would threaten more sanctions to persuade Turkey to reach a ceasefire and halt its offensive.

However, speaking to reporters on a flight back from Baku, Erdogan said the offensive would continue until it reaches its aims, and added that he was not worried about sanctions.

“They say ‘declare a ceasefire’. We will never declare a ceasefire,” Erdogan said. “They are pressuring us to stop the operation. They are announcing sanctions. Our goal is clear. We are not worried about any sanctions,” he said.


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FLYNAVY1
1  seeder  FLYNAVY1    one month ago

So sending Pence for an extended layover in Trump's resort in Scotland was the plan all along?

BTW.....Congratulations Trump pukes….. Putin is taking a victory lap in the Middle East!  

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
1.1  Vic Eldred  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @1    one month ago
Putin is taking a victory lap in the Middle East!  

What has he won?  Does anyone recall when Turkish Air forces shot down a Russian fighter jet?

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
1.1.1  seeder  FLYNAVY1  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1    one month ago

Think Putin gives a shit about that minor incident?  You're delusional if you think yes is the answer.

Russia is now the predominant power broker in the ME.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
1.1.2  Vic Eldred  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @1.1.1    one month ago
Think Putin gives a shit about that minor incident? 

The unanswered downing of a Russian fighter?  Exactly what kind of power is Russia today?

When nuclear weapons are in the mix, it's the less predictable regime that gains the upper hand. The Turkish Army keeps moving and it's Putin and his puppet Bashar al-Assad that need to figure out how to stop it. Don't think Iran isn't also concerned!

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
1.1.3  seeder  FLYNAVY1  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.2    one month ago

You and I agree that the pullout was foolish.  Things have now been set in motion that are out of our control to do anything about..... and that includes the B61s in Turkey.  

"Charlie stole the handle, and the train won't stop...……." JT

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
1.1.4  Vic Eldred  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @1.1.3    one month ago
You and I agree that the pullout was foolish.

We agreed. We would have listened to the Generals. Unfortunately, we don't get to make the call.

Things have now been set in motion that are out of our control to do anything about..... and that includes the B61s in Turkey.  

Correct. We are spectators - up to a point. We still have forces in the middle east.

 
 
 
Kavika
1.1.5  Kavika   replied to  FLYNAVY1 @1.1.3    one month ago

Edrogon apologized to Putin and the Russian people. Russia lifted sanctions that it had imposed on Turkey when the apology came. 

The Turks have recently purchased the Russian S 400 missile defense systems from Russian against the wishes of the US and NATO. 

Russian tanks and personal are on the Syrian/Turkish border as we speak. 

Anyone you look at it our withdrawal from Syria is a victory for the Russian/Iranians and Syrians. 

 
 
 
Ronin2
1.1.6  Ronin2  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @1.1.1    one month ago

Right, they have third world wanna be Syria, and Iran. Both might question how secure Iran is as an ally.

Step aside US, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Iran. Russia is coming through!/SjrSmiley_78_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
1.1.7  seeder  FLYNAVY1  replied to  Ronin2 @1.1.6    one month ago

I can see that some never look at maps, nor understand the concept of critical raw materials necessary for defense of the United States.

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
1.1.8  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @1.1.7    one month ago

You think we can defend our country with sand?

We have more oil here. We are a nuclear power and we can turn that sand to glass.

We are not under threat of invasion. It is not necessary to sacrifice our brave sons and daughters who volunteered at this time.

We bare the responsibility of determining when and what constitutes a national security threat. There is no threat at this time.

 
 
 
Ronin2
1.1.9  Ronin2  replied to  Kavika @1.1.5    one month ago

Who cares? Not everything requires the US presence. How many years have we been in Syria, and accomplished jack shit of nothing?

Proxy civil war still going. ISIS/ISIL still around. No longer as a military force; those moved out to Lebanon, Libya, and Africa- places we aren't fighting them. They still exist as a terrorist force in Syria- and some claim we still need to fight them. Assad is still in charge; and he isn't going anywhere unless Putin says so.

Turkey is now NATO's, and Russian/China/Syria/Kurds/Iran's, problem to deal with.  So is ISIS/ISIL. We have wasted enough time, resources, and lives in our illegal stint in Syria.

Just imagine if we never would have gone into Syria. The Kurds would have made the move a lot sooner to join the Syrian government. This damn civil war might have been over by now.

Instead some want to leave US troops there forever illegally. Syria already asked for US, French, and Turkish forces to leave. Only Russia, China, and Iran are in the country legally. If US troops came under fire from any of those factions, and responded, we would be at war. WWIII over Syria is as dumb as it gets.

Oh and Turkey doesn't seem to give a shit whose forces they fire on, including the US.

https://www.newsweek.com/us-troops-syria-turkey-1464727

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2019/10/12/us-forces-say-turkey-was-deliberately-bracketing-american-forces-with-artillery-fire-syria/

 
 
 
It Is ME
1.1.10  It Is ME  replied to  Kavika @1.1.5    one month ago
The Turks have recently purchased the Russian S 400 missile defense systems from Russian against the wishes of the US and NATO. 

Syrian state media said on Monday that units from President Bashar al-Assad’s army were moving north to “confront Turkish aggression on Syrian territory”. 

 
 
 
Ronin2
1.1.11  Ronin2  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @1.1.7    one month ago

Syria has what of value again? Outside of valuable ports, air fields, and military bases to Russia.  Thanks again for that Obama.

Turkey is far more strategically valuable than Syria is. Which is the reason that they are in NATO; and the US and Europe are talking tough and doing little. Which is also the reason that Russia is making nice and simply talking to Turkey rather than forcing them to comply. Russia is also trying to peel Turkey off of NATO.

Iran has oil. But isn't nearly producing as much as they used to due to US sanctions.  Hasn't seem to affect world oil prices at all.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-oil-iran-exports/hit-by-sanctions-and-rising-tensions-irans-oil-exports-slide-in-july-idUSKCN1UP1UD

Iranian oil exports have dropped in July to as low as 100,000 barrels per day (bpd) due to sanctions and rising tension with the United States and Britain, according to an industry source and tanker data, deepening global supply losses.

The United States reimposed sanctions on Iran in November after pulling out of a 2015 nuclear accord between Tehran and six world powers. Aiming to cut Iran’s sales to zero, Washington in May ended sanction waivers given to importers of Iranian oil.

Iran has nonetheless sent abroad about 100,000 bpd of crude in July, said the industry source, who tracks such flows. Data from Refinitiv Eikon put crude shipments at a similar rate and at 120,000 bpd if condensate, a light oil, is included.

Sara Vakhshouri, an analyst at SVB Energy International, a consulting firm based in Washington and Dubai, also said Iranian oil exports had probably fallen this month.

Vakhshouri estimated the most Iran could currently export at between 225,000 and 350,000 bpd, less than the 400,000 bpd she estimated Iran shipped in June.

“We can’t be sure that all of this capacity has been sold in July,” she said. “Also, it’s important to note that some of the deliveries mostly to China are based on IOU contracts and are not new sales.”

The drop in exports from Iran, a member of the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries, has deepened the impact of an OPEC-led supply-cutting pact. But oil prices LCOc1 have weakened to $64 a barrel from a 2019 high of $75, pressured by concern about slowing economic growth and demand.

Rising tension with the United States, which said on July 18 it had destroyed an Iranian drone, is probably keeping a lid on sales, analysts said. Tensions also spiked between Iran and Britain this month over captured oil tankers.

I am sick of the US getting involved in flipping governments, nation building, and protecting our NATO "allies" assets when they are not able to defend themselves. The "War on Terror" also ranks right up there with all time dumbest moves. It created far more terrorists than it killed.

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
1.1.12  seeder  FLYNAVY1  replied to  Ronin2 @1.1.11    one month ago

If you've been so sick of all these wars and nation building for all these years, why have you continued to support Republicans, the GOP, Neocons and the like for decades?  

 
 
 
It Is ME
1.1.13  It Is ME  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @1.1.12    one month ago
why have you continued to support Republicans, the GOP, Neocons and the like for decades?  

Democrat or Republican Presidents: Who Has Started More Wars? 

Final Score: 
Democrats: 16
Republicans: 10

Kinda Wild....ain't it ? jrSmiley_87_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
1.1.14  igknorantzrulz  replied to  It Is ME @1.1.13    one month ago

Kinda Wild....ain't it ?

Hey Domesticated Don Juan, there is NO score card for going to WAR.

If we have no other choice, as not going to war, no longer, due to circumstances, outweighs going to war, it sometimes becomes a necessary evil

They've all misjudged the Middle East debacles, but NONE as fcked up as CHENEY 

 
 
 
It Is ME
1.1.15  It Is ME  replied to  igknorantzrulz @1.1.14    one month ago
Hey Domesticated Don Juan, there is NO score card for going to WAR.

Apparently.....there is ! jrSmiley_97_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
1.1.16  igknorantzrulz  replied to  It Is ME @1.1.15    one month ago

you post don`t include wars we had no choice getting involved in. then see which party gets the U.S. involved in more wars.

interesting first comment from your link

 
 
 
It Is ME
1.1.17  It Is ME  replied to  igknorantzrulz @1.1.16    one month ago
you post don`t include wars we had no choice getting involved in.

And which would those be ?

There isn't ANYTHING that doesn't have a Choice to mull over !

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
1.1.18  igknorantzrulz  replied to  It Is ME @1.1.17    one month ago

there not my words, they're a quote from your link

 
 
 
It Is ME
1.1.19  It Is ME  replied to  igknorantzrulz @1.1.18    one month ago

Which wars didn't we have a choice in ?

 
 
 
Krishna
1.1.20  Krishna  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1    one month ago

I remember it well.

At the time I was a bit surprised that the incident didn't result in more serious repercussions. (It was obvious, IMO, that both the Russians and the Turks did not want the tensions to escalate significantly).

 
 
 
Krishna
1.1.21  Krishna  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.4    one month ago
We still have forces in the middle east.

And our nutty president, while oretending that he "wants to end the endless wars in the Middle east"  keeps sending in more troops!

What a total Maroon! 

US To Send 3,000 Additional Troops To Saudi Arabia

The new deployment means that, since May, the US has sent an additional 14,000 members of the armed forces into the region. 

 
 
 
Krishna
1.1.22  Krishna  replied to  It Is ME @1.1.19    one month ago
Which wars didn't we have a choice in ?

People are so  amazingly uninformed about our history (which is a sad commentary on our school system...but that's another topic).

During WWII the sentiment in the U.S. was very isolationist..The vast majority of citizens did not want to get involved in foreign wars.

Some Americans were worried about the advance of Naziism and Imperial japan and wanted to fight. But since our government didn't want to, many of these people crossed the Canadian border and voluntered (Unlike the U.S., Canada was at war with the Fascists)

(BTW A  reversal of this flow of people across that border occurred during the Viet-nam war when Americans also crossed the border-- but in that case it was because they were opposed to the war).

Since the vast majority of Americans were strongly isolationist,  we stayed out of WWII.

Until the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbour-- so that was one war where we really didn't have a choice.

Next question?

 
 
 
Krishna
1.1.23  Krishna  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.2    one month ago
it's Putin and his puppet Bashar al-Assad

And what about Putin's other puppet-- Donald Trump!

 
 
 
PJ
1.1.24  PJ  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @1.1.1    one month ago

I recommend letting those questions just go unanswered.  [Deleted]

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
1.1.25  Vic Eldred  replied to  Krishna @1.1.21    one month ago

In other words he can't make up his mind?  And which do you want?

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
1.1.26  Thrawn 31  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1    one month ago

Putin won Syria, and is now one of the major powers in the ME.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
1.1.27  Vic Eldred  replied to  Thrawn 31 @1.1.26    one month ago

Putin is allied with Syria. Syria is a failed state with a military all but defeated by the rebels. Syria can't even stop incursions by Turkey or infiltration by Iran.

 
 
 
It Is ME
1.1.28  It Is ME  replied to  Krishna @1.1.22    4 weeks ago
so that was one war where we really didn't have a choice.

Yes we did !

Even then....there were still (2) two choices. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
1.1.29  Tessylo  replied to  igknorantzrulz @1.1.14    4 weeks ago

Everything in the middle east has and will always be about resources, primarily oil.  

 
 
 
Kavika
2  Kavika     one month ago

Seeing Russian tanks flying both the Russian Federation flag and the flag of Syria now on the border is most interesting. 

Russian/Putin are now the power brokers in the M/E. The recently signed agreements between SA, UAE, and Russia opens a whole new front.  

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
2.1  seeder  FLYNAVY1  replied to  Kavika @2    one month ago

Trump has given away the value of every life taken, every penny of treasure expended, and every drop of sweat of Americans in that region since the Persian Gulf War. 

Thirty years of effort...…. For fucking what in return..... The safety of his towers in Turkey?

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
2.1.1  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @2.1    one month ago

If the Kurds have a way to fire one off, I hope they aim for Trump Towers.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
2.2  Vic Eldred  replied to  Kavika @2    one month ago
Seeing Russian tanks flying both the Russian Federation flag and the flag of Syria now on the border is most interesting. 

Especially if you are Erdogan. He has Russia on his northern border and Russia's partner (Syria) on the southern border. Every nation does what is in it's own best interest. 


Russian/Putin are now the power brokers in the M/E. 

So they said when Russia intervened in Afghanistan. Let's see how much Russia can afford.

 
 
 
Kavika
2.2.1  Kavika   replied to  Vic Eldred @2.2    one month ago
So they said when Russia intervened in Afghanistan. Let's see how much Russia can afford.

The major difference between that and today is that the Russians are not fighting the Syrians, they are allies. In Afghanistan, they were fighting the Afghans/Mujahideen who were supported and supplied money and weapons by the US. 

An excellent read on this is ''Charlie Wilson's War''.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
2.2.2  Vic Eldred  replied to  Kavika @2.2.1    one month ago
The major difference between that and today is that the Russians are not fighting the Syrians, they are allies.

Yes and that puts them up against the Turks. Are you saying the Turks who thumbed their noses at everyone else fear Russia?  I have a hunch that Erdogan views nuclear weapons the way westerners once viewed the Colt 45 - It makes all men equal. Last time I checked Turkish forces are moving on schedule.

Erdogan says he will not negotiate!

 
 
 
Kavika
2.2.3  Kavika   replied to  Vic Eldred @2.2.2    one month ago

I saying that I doubt that the Truks are stupid enough to start a shooting war with Russia. 

If they did as a NATO member the US by charter would have to enter and defend the Turks if I'm not mistaken.

Russian troops patrol between Turkish and Syrian forces on border

Soldiers’ presence underlines Moscow’s role as power broker after evacuation of US personnel

Bethan McKernan   in Istanbul

Tue 15 Oct 2019   10.04 EDT Last modified on Tue 15 Oct 2019   20.00 EDT

Shares
341
3016.jpg?width=300&quality=85&auto=forma
  Military vehicles fly Russian and Syrian national flags near the town of Manbij on Tuesday. Photograph: Omar Sanadiki/Reuters
 
 
 
Ronin2
2.2.4  Ronin2  replied to  Kavika @2.2.3    one month ago

You are mistaken. NATO countries have bail on operations before when they don't agree with them.

Germany in Libya

https://newrepublic.com/article/85702/germany-libya-intervention-qaddafi-merkel

It may have come as a surprise to many people that Germany—the lynchpin of the NATO alliance on the European continent and a close ally of the United States since 1949—voted to abstain from the U.N. resolution authorizing force against Muammar Qaddafi.

France and Germany Iraq War

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/jan/22/germany.france

Germany and France are to coordinate their opposition to war in Iraq, French president Jacques Chirac said today, as the two countries reaffirmed their 40-year "treaty of friendship".

Mr Chirac and German chancellor Gerhard Schröder announced a series of measures to bring the two countries closer together at the heart of Europe , including more cooperation on issues from crime to immigration, as well as foreign policy.

Their joint declaration did not mention Iraq, but at a news conference the French president said that both France and Germany believed any decision on military force should be made by the UN security council, only after UN weapons inspectors have reported on their findings.

They said they would seek "to adopt common positions" in international bodies, including the UN security council.

"For us, war is always the proof of failure and the worst of solutions, so everything must be done to avoid it," Mr Chirac said after the two nations' cabinets met together at the presidential Elysée palace in Paris.

Among other measures, the two governments said their cabinets would regularly hold joint meetings and that both sides would appoint a senior official to oversee their cooperation.

The German chancellor, Gerhard Schröder, had last night made it clear his country would use its position on the UN security council to oppose a resolution backing force against the Iraqi regime.

"Don't expect Germany to approve a resolution legitimising war," Mr Schröder told a rally of his Social Democratic party.

US have been under fire in Syria from Russian mercenaries and Syrian government forces- NATO has not come rushing in to help.

It is up to the individual country how much they participate in NATO.

https://www.history.com/news/france-nato-withdrawal-charles-de-gaulle

Frustration mounted even more when de Gaulle suggested that France, the United States and Britain be put on equal footing within NATO in terms of nuclear strategy. The proposal failed, and as a result de Gaulle began slowly reducing French participation in NATO. He withdrew France from the Mediterranean fleet and refused to store nuclear weapons from other countries on French soil.
The situation reached a boiling point by 1963, when the U.S. and France clashed over a plan to have NATO nations man a North Atlantic nuclear fleet. De Gaulle and his military had planned their own North Atlantic nuclear fleet, andwithdrew France’s participation as a result. Then, in 1966, de Gaulle struck a final blow. He announced  that he was withdrawing France from the integrated military structure and that all foreign forces had to leave France.
The US government even paid Rand to do a report on how they could deal with NATO members that refused to take military action against Russia if they attacked a NATO partner.

 
 
 
Kavika
2.2.5  Kavika   replied to  Ronin2 @2.2.4    one month ago

Actually the withdrawal of the French wasn't quite what it seemed. 

An agreement between the US and France was instituted known as the Lemnitzer-Aillert Agreement.

France never left the overarching North Atlantic Alliance, however, and within a year the practical effect of withdrawing from the integrated command was also watered down. A secret accord between U.S. and French officials, the Lemnitzer-Aillert Agreements, laid out in great detail how French forces would dovetail back into NATO's command structure should East-West hostilities break out.

US troops stationed with members of the SDF came under fire from Russian mercenaries. The US called in Arty and airstrikes and a number of proxies were killed.

https://www.vox.com/world/2018/2/13/17008446/us-troops-syria-russia-mercenaries-killed

Since it was over in a very short time and the US did not request NATO support it would seem that it didn't qualify.

Also, the US and Russia have a set of protocols in place especially to avoid conflict between the two countries. 

It's good to know that if Russia attacks Turkey we will not be obliged to come to Turkey's aid. I assume that in the reverse if Turkey attacks Russian troops we are free to not defend the Turks. 

BTW that whole thing on Iraq and NATO was a NATO country, US, attacking a non NATO member. A different set of circumstances.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
2.2.6  Vic Eldred  replied to  Kavika @2.2.3    one month ago
I saying that I doubt that the Truks are stupid enough to start a shooting war with Russia. 

Neither side wants to do that.

If they did as a NATO member the US by charter would have to enter and defend the Turks if I'm not mistaken.

Correct and that is still the case. Outside of the US, Turkey might just be the most important member of NATO.


Soldiers’ presence underlines Moscow’s role as power broker after evacuation of US personnel

Erdogan fully intends to annex a good portion of northern Syria and to re-settle the Syrian refugees living in Turkey. I don't see any change in that plan.

 
 
 
Krishna
2.2.7  Krishna  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.2    one month ago
Every nation does what is in it's own best interest. 

I used to believe that-- many years ago.

But over time I've come to realize that that is mostly true-- but it would be more accurate to say:

Every nation does what it believes is in it's own best interest.

Which is sometimes quite different....

 
 
 
Kavika
2.2.8  Kavika   replied to  Vic Eldred @2.2.6    one month ago
Erdogan fully intends to annex a good portion of northern Syria and to re-settle the Syrian refugees living in Turkey. I don't see any change in that plan.

According to Trump, he will destroy the Turkish economy. If that does happen, and he could because the Turkish economy is weak at best, Turkey would be in no condition to continue any war. 

Thus far the sanctions he has imposed are far from destroying the Turkish economy. 

If he truly wants to destroy Turkeys one simple sanction could do it. 

We'll see how this plays out but Russian will control vast swathes of northern Syria. 

The northern section is perhaps the most valuable because of the oil, farmland and water there. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
2.2.9  Vic Eldred  replied to  Kavika @2.2.8    one month ago
According to Trump, he will destroy the Turkish economy. If that does happen, and he could because the Turkish economy is weak at best, Turkey would be in no condition to continue any war. 

NO, Trump threatened sanctions if the Turks began slaughtering the Kurds. Turkey has every right to re-settle all those Syrian refugees living in Turkey. Erdogan is simply going to annex part of Syria and place those refugees back within a buffer zone under Turkish occupation. That is a separate issue!


We'll see how this plays out

Yes, we will


The northern section is perhaps the most valuable because of the oil, farmland and water there. 

Then Erdogan just gained some assets as well!

 
 
 
Kavika
2.2.11  Kavika   replied to  Vic Eldred @2.2.9    one month ago
NO, Trump threatened sanctions if the Turks began slaughtering the Kurds

NO, these are his exact words.

"As I have stated strongly before, and just to reiterate, if Turkey does anything that I, in my great and unmatched wisdom, consider to be off limits, I will totally destroy and obliterate the Economy of Turkey (I've done before!)" Trump tweeted.

Turkey committed an act of war once they invaded Syria and any annexation of Syria land is not legal..Period.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
2.2.12  Vic Eldred  replied to  Kavika @2.2.11    one month ago
NO, these are his exact words.

NO, your quote needs a link. Here is a quote:

“Starting the long overdue pullout from Syria while hitting the little remaining ISIS territorial caliphate hard, and from many directions,” Trump said on Twitter late Sunday. “Will attack again from existing nearby base if it reforms. Will devastate Turkey economically if they hit Kurds. Create 20 mile safe zone....”

″...Likewise, do not want the Kurds to provoke Turkey,” the president added in another tweet.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/14/trump-threatens-to-devastate-turkey-economically-if-it-attacks-kurds.html


How is it I knew this was all about Trump NOT Erdogan?  Tell me Kavika, were you equally outraged when Obama pulled US forces out of Iraq?  Or when ISIS resulted from that move and Obama called them "the JV team"????
 
 
 
Kavika
2.2.13  Kavika   replied to  Vic Eldred @2.2.12    one month ago
NO, your quote needs a link

And here it is.... https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-threatens-turkey-economy_n_5d9b6286e4b099389803fd7b

How is it I knew this was all about Trump NOT Erdogan?  Tell me Kavika, were you equally outraged when Obama pulled US forces out of Iraq?  Or when ISIS resulted from that move and Obama called them "the JV team"????

You don't know and your powers of mind reading suck.

And yes I was outraged by Obama moving US forces out of Iraq..And I voiced that opinion before. 

 

 

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
2.2.14  seeder  FLYNAVY1  replied to  Kavika @2.2.13    one month ago

We both did Vic....... None of the three of us like the idea of pulling out of a military job like this simply because we know the cost in blood and treasure will only be greater than if we finished it in the first place.

Regards

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
2.2.15  Vic Eldred  replied to  Kavika @2.2.13    4 weeks ago
And yes I was outraged by Obama moving US forces out of Iraq..And I voiced that opinion before.

Sorry I missed it..Good to hear

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
2.2.16  Vic Eldred  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @2.2.14    4 weeks ago
None of the three of us like the idea of pulling out of a military job like this simply because we know the cost in blood and treasure will only be greater than if we finished it in the first place.

Yes, It always helps a politician to bring troops home (except, of course for Trump). The true results always take a little time for everyone to see. We've had 50,000 killed in a Syrian civil war and the rise of ISIS. We are now onto chapter 3 - Turkish expansion.

All the best

 
 
 
JohnRussell
2.2.17  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.2.16    4 weeks ago
We've had 50,000 killed in a Syrian civil war and the rise of ISIS.

Please explain how you arrived at that figure. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
2.2.18  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @2.2.17    4 weeks ago

I didn't arrive at that figure - it should have been 1,50,000:

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/death-toll-in-syrias-civil-war-surges-over-1-50-000-555860

 
 
 
Krishna
2.3  Krishna  replied to  Kavika @2    one month ago
Russian/Putin are now the power brokers in the M/E. The recently signed agreements between SA, UAE, and Russia opens a whole new front.

Trump's actions have once again furthered Russia's interests at the expense of the U.S. and our allies (of course its not the first time :-(

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
3  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh    one month ago

Kick Turkey out of NATO and let them Duke it out with the Syrians and Russians.

Whatever happens there is a lot better than keeping US troops in harm's way.

When Neocons complain about troop withdrawals it always confirms it was the right decision.

Sorry Neocons you've killed enough young men and women.

 
 
 
It Is ME
3.1  It Is ME  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @3    one month ago
Kick Turkey out of NATO and let them Duke it out with the Syrians and Russians.

That would be interesting to see.

"But Trump" …… would be the one killing everyone then too !

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
3.1.1  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  It Is ME @3.1    one month ago

We have no business in the Middle East. We are burdened with zero culpability regardless of the well organized neocon sales pitch.

They are addicted to death and destruction. Pain and suffering.

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
3.1.2  seeder  FLYNAVY1  replied to  It Is ME @3.1    one month ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
It Is ME
3.1.3  It Is ME  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @3.1.1    one month ago

I don't see a big profit margin in "Sand" myself !

 
 
 
It Is ME
3.1.4  It Is ME  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @3.1.2    one month ago
deleted for context

?

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
3.1.5  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  It Is ME @3.1.3    one month ago

The neocon is in the business of killing and business has always been good.

Time for insults because the argument is insane.

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
3.1.6  seeder  FLYNAVY1  replied to  It Is ME @3.1.4    one month ago

Those that don't blow Trump's horn all the time are in reverse able to hear adult conversations.

 
 
 
It Is ME
3.1.7  It Is ME  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @3.1.5    one month ago
Time for insults because the argument is insane.

Looks like it. 

 
 
 
It Is ME
3.1.8  It Is ME  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @3.1.6    one month ago
Those that don't blow Trump's horn all the time are in reverse able to hear adult conversations.

I'm actually "Reading" the conversations !

 
 
 
squiggy
3.1.9  squiggy  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @3.1.2    one month ago

For all the bloviating, you warriors wouldn't fill a taxi, but you are free to go.

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
3.1.10  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @3.1.6    one month ago

Adult conversations like comment 3.1.2?

You are welcome to join the insult free adult conversation any time.

Planes, tanks and things that go boom are cool to most men however we have to be smart enough to know when to defend our country and when the fight is not ours to fight.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
3.1.11  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @3.1.2    one month ago

They would be brain damaged to begin with.

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
3.1.12  seeder  FLYNAVY1  replied to  squiggy @3.1.9    one month ago

At the same time those that can't grasp how it negatively impacts the US for Russia to be the main power broker in the region is counted in the millions.

  

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
3.1.13  seeder  FLYNAVY1  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @3.1.10    one month ago

This isn't about blowing things up Fish.  This loss of voice in what happens in the Middle East can very easily impact our way of life in the United States in the not too distant future.

Some key words for you to learn are power projection, freedom of the seas, critical materials to national defense.  I've put these terms to you in the past, and still you don't grasp what America needs to maintain our way of life that have to come from other parts of the world.

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
3.1.14  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @3.1.12    one month ago

That is good news. Let Russia make the mistake in the Hornets nest.

Why be sympathetic to the Russians? In 10 years they will be crying uncle and  sprinting out of the region.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
3.1.15  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @3.1.12    one month ago
those that can't grasp how it negatively impacts the US for Russia to be the main power broker in the region is counted in the millions.
And that brokerage (snicker) can an will be revoked BY the US if and when necessary. And it won't take ground troops to do it if done right.
 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
3.1.16  igknorantzrulz  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @3.1.10    one month ago

ah Fish, your funny.

your actuallytaking something serious, and i do not agree with your view, but i can respect it, but now you're seeing how when others take something serious, and want that adult conversation, you're not usually seriously involved in, just how frustrating the wrong bowling shoe can be, as though it still remains incredibly fashionable, for some, it is the only reason to pretend to go bowling

.

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
3.1.17  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  igknorantzrulz @3.1.16    one month ago

Be consistent, always wear shoes for every event. Never rent shoes, it makes you look like a fraud.

 
 
 
It Is ME
3.1.18  It Is ME  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @3.1.13    one month ago
This loss of voice in what happens in the Middle East can very easily impact our way of life in the United States in the not too distant future.

Isn't that what "Homeland SECURITY" is for ?

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
3.1.19  igknorantzrulz  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @3.1.17    one month ago

i am a fraud,

as you believe Trump isn't, and that is the ultimate Fraud test fail, no pass, all Russian, to nowhere advantageous for US, as every foreign affair Trump did prostitute, and paid out his prosthetic prostate for all to examine, the impatient flatulent child gas bag gas lighting the way, the way back to Russia, as all of Trumps' forein affair decisions lead back to, and benefit Putins' Russia.

but disregard the man behind the curtain pulling the strings, as he's not a fraud

he's Vladimir Putin his two nonsense into our slot machine, and pulling all of Trumps levers while waiting for the Crackpot to pay off, and he has

in Spades

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
3.1.20  seeder  FLYNAVY1  replied to  It Is ME @3.1.18    one month ago

Is Homeland Security able to guarantee to our shores deliveries of rare earth magnets, yttrium, tungsten, graphite, and the like? 

There are roughly 30 critical materials for national defense of the United States that we have to import by sea.  Anytime that we hand over a  region in the world to a country like Russia and China, we put at risk our national security right here at home.  We also risk our manufacturing base the ability to compete in the world.  

 
 
 
It Is ME
3.1.21  It Is ME  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @3.1.20    one month ago
There are roughly 30 critical materials for national defense of the United States that we have to import by sea.  Anytime that we hand over a  region in the world to a country like Russia and China

This country has dealt monetarily with Hostile countries for decades, as have countries all over the world, sanctions not withstanding either (Allies know how to get around them to still get what they want). We turned over most of our  "Steel" production to other countries, yet we still build with steel.....right ?

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
3.1.22  seeder  FLYNAVY1  replied to  It Is ME @3.1.21    one month ago

Go research steel production in the US and Import volumes.  We export around 2 million metric tons of steel alloys, while we import 16 million metric tons of unfinished steel per year.  We've all but dismantled our high volume, mild steel industry in the United States.   We could rebuild it with enough time.

So steel is something that isn't as critical to national defense as are IC chips and the ability to "dope" silicon with germanium, and yttrium in order to make them.  We don't have these sort of raw materials in the States so they would have to be imported if we had to start making transistors and IC Chips again.  Business partnerships can be interrupted.  Imagine if China decided they weren't going to ship us any rare earth magnets?  They are in every high tech gadget in your home and car.  

Don't miss the point.  Nationalism and a pullback from the world risks our ability to maintain critical imports to defend our way of life and our high tech manufacturing base. 

 
 
 
It Is ME
3.1.23  It Is ME  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @3.1.22    one month ago
So steel is something that isn't as critical to national defense

Hahahaha ! jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

Export 2 million mt steel, yet Import 16 million mt steel, as you just noted , isn't a national defense issue ?

And What do we build military pieces and parts out of ? jrSmiley_87_smiley_image.gif

Did you know that 16 million is actually more than 2 million ?

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
3.1.24  seeder  FLYNAVY1  replied to  It Is ME @3.1.23    one month ago

Guess my response was too complex for you...….

We can rebuild our steel fabrication to make our own steel in quantities given time.  We have to import that which we can't make.

I'm sorry I cant deliver a suitable message using single syllable words.

 
 
 
It Is ME
3.1.25  It Is ME  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @3.1.24    one month ago
We can rebuild our steel fabrication to make our own steel in quantities given time.

We "Had" the time, and we have the material. Politics just farmed it out to other countries.

Ever heard of the Ol' bustling "Lackawanna Steel" or "Bethlehem Steel" companies. they're shut down right now. Rusting away.

The rest of your comment is just childish "Drivel" !

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
3.1.26  seeder  FLYNAVY1  replied to  It Is ME @3.1.25    one month ago

Its hard for those that don't know what they don't know about critical raw materials.

https://www.usgs.gov/news/interior-releases-2018-s-final-list-35-minerals-deemed-critical-us-national-security-and

And yeah…… I've can quote you weight per foot of I-beams from 4" up to 12" in thickness.  Yeah I do structural steel.  Drivel my ass.    

 
 
 
It Is ME
3.1.27  It Is ME  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @3.1.26    one month ago

Oh....that "Draft" of a list ! 

I'd love to see this jrSmiley_13_smiley_image.gif :

The report will include:
a strategy to reduce the nation’s reliance on critical minerals

"I've can quote you weight per foot of I-beams from 4" up to 12" in thickness.  Yeah I do structural steel."

Weird way of saying "I can" jrSmiley_97_smiley_image.gif , but I design (calcs. and all) what your supposed to build ! jrSmiley_18_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Krishna
3.1.28  Krishna  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @3.1.24    one month ago
Guess my response was too complex for you...….

I've noticed the same thing about replying to him. You have to break down your answer into small parts, don't use big words. And explain it slowly and arefully...and I have seen people do that and then sometimes he does actaully understand.

Be persistant!

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
3.1.29  igknorantzrulz  replied to  It Is ME @3.1.27    one month ago

Drawing ain't building 

"Field Verify" that one

 
 
 
Krishna
3.1.30  Krishna  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @3.1.26    one month ago

FLYNAVY1:

Recently you requested that I post some of the lesser known facts about the background of the situation in the Middle East. 

I just seeded an article about that, so if you or anyone else is interested, check it out:

When Saddam Hussein Used His WMDs

(If anyone has any questions or would like to discuss that, please do it in the comment section of that seeded article, not here. Thanks :-)

 
 
 
Krishna
3.1.31  Krishna  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @3.1.5    one month ago
The neocon is in the business of killing and business has always been good.

I assume you are talking about Trump?

because he's one of the biggest Neo-cons of all...(Just very clever at pretending he's not).

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
3.1.32  Sean Treacy  replied to  Krishna @3.1.31    one month ago
 Neo-cons

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

 
 
 
Krishna
3.1.33  Krishna  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @3.1.14    one month ago
Why be sympathetic to the Russians?

You're asking the wrong person-- that's a question that should be addressed to Trump!

 
 
 
It Is ME
3.1.34  It Is ME  replied to  igknorantzrulz @3.1.29    4 weeks ago

No Building without the design. jrSmiley_78_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
3.1.35  igknorantzrulz  replied to  It Is ME @3.1.34    4 weeks ago

No Building without the design.

so now your a designer...

i'm gonna have to guess, an

interior one.

 
 
 
It Is ME
3.1.36  It Is ME  replied to  igknorantzrulz @3.1.35    4 weeks ago
so now your a designer...

Calcs. and all.

Go ahead….don't follow what's on the paper when "Erecting", and see what happens. jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
3.1.37  igknorantzrulz  replied to  It Is ME @3.1.36    4 weeks ago

Go ahead….don't follow what's on the paper when "Erecting", and see what happens.

how about an Erection...

look ma,  no hands ! do you need clapping for a C Alice 

in Chains , Concerted F-ort ,  with a little blue boy pillowing up

your blood flow, in

out of your little mind

 
 
 
It Is ME
3.1.38  It Is ME  replied to  igknorantzrulz @3.1.37    4 weeks ago

Clap on jrSmiley_81_smiley_image.gif ....Clap off jrSmiley_84_smiley_image.gif !

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
3.1.39  igknorantzrulz  replied to  It Is ME @3.1.38    4 weeks ago

Clap on ....Clap off !

are U sayin ME,

an erection gave you the clapp per your correspondence, 

cause i won't stand for that ovation, but i applaud your vaulted effortlessness

 
 
 
It Is ME
3.1.40  It Is ME  replied to  igknorantzrulz @3.1.39    4 weeks ago

jrSmiley_84_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
squiggy
3.1.41  squiggy  replied to  Krishna @3.1.28    4 weeks ago

“...slowly and arefully...and I have seen people do that and then sometimes he does actaully understand.

Be persistant!”

Well, if you’re trying to make a dick out of somebody you might not want to actaully be arefully persistant.

 
 
 
Tessylo
3.1.42  Tessylo  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @3.1.22    4 weeks ago

Like coal, steel seems to have gone away in many places, where it once prospered.  Coal won't come back.  Will steel?  Like Allentown, Bethlehem Steel in MD, I'm sure suffered a similar fate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHnJp0oyOxs

 
 
 
Krishna
3.2  Krishna  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @3    one month ago
Whatever happens there is a lot better than keeping US troops in harm's way.

I would have thought a strong Trump supporter and Neo-Con such as yourself would want to support Trump's actions?


US To Send 3,000 Additional Troops To Saudi Arabia

The new deployment means that, since May, the US has sent an additional 14,000 members of the armed forces into the region. 

 
 
 
zuksam
4  zuksam    one month ago

We never should have supported the overthrow of Assad in the first place. There were no refugees and religious minorities were protected and historical sites were preserved until we butted in. We turned a stable country into a hell hole that allowed ISIS to form and caused the refugee crisis. Contrary to what many would like to believe we were never going to allow the Kurds to form a Kurdish Homeland in Syria, Obama wasn't going to do it and neither was Clinton, Trump is just being portrayed as the bad guy in the media for propaganda because if they were honest they'd admit this was always going to happen eventually and Trumps just the guy who is breaking the bad news. Obama screwed this up not Trump. That being said Trump should have made a deal with Russia and Assad to withdraw US forces as long as the Kurds were given protection, Turkey should have never had an opening to attack the Kurds in Syria.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
4.1  igknorantzrulz  replied to  zuksam @4    one month ago

it's so damn easy to Monday Mourning Quarterback the ever fluid and dimensionally distorting "current" state of forever changing and in motion affairs that cheat logic, defy the projections, reverse the cowgirl riding off into the coarse sand blasting the face of reason with unreasonable developments that are driven hard and tuff into odds defying  even the odds defying odds makin them even.

Even that No One Nostradameuses the Middle East, and when added is our Dik in the middle monkeying on US, while Putin sits on his shoulder, like a battery of chips, draining what he's never been charged with, cause the GOP is a bunch of Pu$$y's Trump grabbed when he fondled the negativity his fools defended , the positivity he certainly offended, the civility he up ended like a drug addicted alcohaulin ass whole and complete, as parts are unequal to the sum of a Trump, a Trumped up norm for abnormalities sake, four saken, a fifth wasted, alcohol desensitized sensationed with an incessant infective vitur oil contaminating all Trump should need only need to be proxy to, to cause what it be, and worse off for sure is our wanna be Dictator tot grabber of the weak minded, daily, while delivered is a full term abortion of what OUR COUNTRY ONCE WAS, before

Trump maid it so sewer grate again, draining swamps to find the slimiest he could ever appoint with his tiny fingers, the weigh t  he has burdened this country with.

.

He is a treasonous fck who pisses on America, while his defenders hold up his diaper for the rash of shit he does often spew, like an erupting volcanic puff of smoke, he used to screen in his glass house while snortin windex to better smear snot

the truth, ass it's all he doesn't know

 
 
 
Krishna
4.2  Krishna  replied to  zuksam @4    one month ago
We never should have supported the overthrow of Assad in the first place. There were no refugees and religious minorities were protected and historical sites were preserved until we butted in. We turned a stable country into a hell hole

When was this? What year? (Approximately ...)

 
 
 
Krishna
4.3  Krishna  replied to  zuksam @4    one month ago

That being said Trump should have made a deal with Russia and Assad to withdraw US forces as long as the Kurds were given protection

But don't you see-- Trump spoke to Erdogan so he removed the troops so the Turks could come in unopposed amd massacre the Kurds. 

That was the whole point of that conversation!

 
 
 
Krishna
4.4  Krishna  replied to  zuksam @4    one month ago

Trump is just being portrayed as the bad guy in the media for propaganda because if they were honest they'd admit this was always going to happen eventually

Trump should have made a deal with Russia and Assad to withdraw US forces as long as the Kurds were given protection, Turkey should have never had an opening to attack the Kurds in Syria

Are you aware of the fact that you just contradicted yourself?

 
 
 
Split Personality
5  Split Personality    4 weeks ago
President Tayyip Erdogan told U.S. President Donald Trump that Turkey will never declare a ceasefire in northeastern Syria and that it will not negotiate with Kurdish forces it is fighting in its offensive into the region.

VP Pence is just now announcing a cease fire between the US & Turkey for 120 hours.

I wasn't aware that the USA was fighting Turkish forces. 

That being said, Erdogan hasn't negotiated with the "YPG" and will not after the 120 hour deadline.

What they really want is a total withdrawal from 4,000 square miles of northern Syria. (200 x 20 )

Total capitulation by the Kurds in exchange for the removal of economic sanctions against several Turkish Ministers & officials.

Pence is doing the best he possibly can spinning this as a credit to Trump and "his strong relationship" to Erdogan.

That 4,000 miles now includes Kurds and rebel Syrians with Turkish, Russian and Syrian government forces as well as ISIS prisoners and escapees.

What a "swamp".

 
 
 
Split Personality
5.1  Split Personality  replied to  Split Personality @5    4 weeks ago

The agreement only applies to Turkish "conventional forces".

Discussion on TV is asking if that means the Syrians delivered and supported by Turkey are going to continue to fight on?

 
 
 
Tessylo
6  Tessylo    4 weeks ago

Another SNAFU/FUBAR caused by this 'president'

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
7  Just Jim NC TttH    4 weeks ago

Well so much for liberal pipe dreams..................

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/pence-meets-with-erdogan-seeking-syria-border-cease-fire/ar-AAIUS1T?li=BBnb7Kz

So now what? I know, I know. Trump bad. 

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
7.1  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @7    4 weeks ago

Trump is beyond bad and your support of him is beyond pathetic 

 
 
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