2 women hit by speeding Jaguar on closed Seattle freeway during protests - Chicago Tribune
Category: News & Politics
Via: drakkonis • 4 years ago • 252 commentsBy: MARTHA BELLISLE (chicagotribune. com)
Well, it was bound to happen sooner or later. Two interesting things concerning this. First, had it been a white guy driving this car, the news media would have taken a very different approach in how they reported this. As it is, they already seem to be trying to make some sort of narrative without knowing anything much at all.
Second, I watched this on several YouTube sites, not for the images, which are disturbing, but the comments. I scrolled through hundreds of them and every last one of them thought these people got what they deserved. I couldn't find even one dissenter. Not a single person who felt sorry for them.
Personally, it's hard to watch what happens to those women, but at the same time, I'm not sorry there were consequences for their actions. They had been tying up the freeway for more than an hour. Nearly two, by some accounts, but I'm not sure. There is no justification for what they were doing. No way to justify it. Just because someone believes in their cause doesn't give them the right to force everyone else to bend to their will. They don't get to screw over everyone else so that they can feel their Justice Warrior high.
I hope these women will be okay, but I don't really feel sorry for what happened to them. I hope they learn something from this. I hope others do, too.
Lastly, I hope the driver gets a fair hearing. It seems as if the media is already trying to put it's own spin on things.
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
By MARTHA BELLISLEAssociated Press| Jul 04, 2020 at 11:37 AM
SEATTLE — A 27-year-old man drove a white Jaguar onto a closed freeway in Seattle early Saturday and barreled through a panicked crowd of protesters, critically injuring two women, officials said.
A photo provided by the Washington State Patrol shows the vehicle of Dawit Kelete, who is suspected of driving into a protest on Interstate 5 in Seattle. Seattle has been the site of prolonged unrest following the May 25 police killing of George Floyd in Minneapolis. ... more (Washington State Patrol via AP)
Dawit Kelete of Seattle drove the car around vehicles that were blocking Interstate 5 and sped into the crowd at about 1:40 a.m., according to a police report released by the Washington State Patrol. Video taken at the scene by protesters showed people shouting "Car! Car!" before fleeing the roadway.
Summer Taylor, 24, of Seattle and Diaz Love, 32, of Bellingham were in critical condition with multiple injuries, according to Harborview Medical Center spokeswoman Susan Gregg.
Love was filming the protest in a nearly two-hour-long Facebook livestream captioned "Black Femme March takes I-5" when the video ended abruptly; with about 15 seconds left, shouts of "Car!" can be heard as the camera starts to shake before screeching tires and the sound of impact are heard.
Graphic video on social media showed the car striking two people.
The driver was in custody, Washington State Patrol Capt. Ron Mead said. He was booked into the King County Correctional Facility at 7:24 a.m. Saturday on two counts of vehicular assault. Bail was denied. It was not immediately clear if Kelete had an attorney who could speak on his behalf.
Officials were trying to determine the motive as well as point of entry onto the interstate. Mead said Kelete was suspected to have driven the wrong way on a ramp. Troopers did not know whether it was a targeted attack, but impairment was not considered a factor, Mead said.
Seattle has been the site of prolonged unrest following the May 25 police killing of George Floyd in Minneapolis, which sparked nationwide protests. Dozens of people were arrested this past week in connection with protests as demonstrations continue after authorities cleared the "Capitol Hill Occupied Protest" zone Wednesday morning.
Mead said at the press conference that protesters had shut down the interstate for 19 days in a row. He emphasized that the freeway is "simply not a safe place" for pedestrians, and said he hoped protesters would cease what he termed "unlawful behavior" in blocking the interstate.
"My hope is, as a result of this tragedy, protesters will reconsider their desire to be on the interstate because I cannot guarantee their safety, plain and simple," Mead said.
Protesters were on the freeway for more than an hour before the car drove around the blockade around 1:36 a.m., Mead said.
The state patrol tweeted out two pictures of the driver's car with significant damage to its bumper and windshield.
Seattle police tweeted that they were assisting with the scene, as southbound lanes of the freeway remained closed for investigation.
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I don't recommend looking at the complete footage. It's pretty awful.
I saw it.
Darwin award winners don't get the hell out of the way of a car. The idiots even saw it coming and acted like they could stop it through force of will. Of course they had their phones out recording, that didn't save them either.
Car was damaged but won easily.
Of course they had to get the color of the car front and center in the article. It was a white car, damn that racist car for forcing it's driver to do that!/
I think the two who got hit thought they were out of the way since the car was in the breakdown lane but the car swerved to avoid other protesters and hit them. It was the drivers fault he was driving much to fast and visibility was good he wasn't even slowing down he just decided to fly around the stopped cars in the breakdown lane. Sure they shouldn't have been there but there could have been a breakdown or accident and this jackass would have done the same thing and still possibly killed someone.
Probably just trying to get across town.
I’m sorry, but it takes a special kind of stupid to go demonstrating on a freeway. I’m sad for them that these people were hurt, but they are just another in a long line of humans who have brought tragedy and destruction upon themselves by doing something profoundly dumb.
“Not a single person who felt sorry for them.”
Add me to that list.
What’s the best way to sway people to your cause? It sure as hell isn’t to hassle or instill fear or damage their property or inconvenience them.
Maybe others will learn from these two idiots? Probably not.
That's it, exactly. Let's see. I want you to come to my cause so I'm going to keep you from going anywhere on the freeway, burn down your business, not let you speak your point of view, abuse you verbally and anything else I can think of to do to you. Here's your membership card : )
I love the dumb fuck on the video. Demanding the police show up right that second.
Hey dumbass, you mean the police you want disbanded, defunded, and done completely away with. Those police?
How about during the video the guy screaming at about 06:40 if the video, that the protesters were blocking the medical from getting on the freeway. Takes the level of stupidity rarely seen.
I would never make a good LEO. If I got a call like that and found out it was two BLM members that were illegally blocking a freeway that got hit; I think I would have told dispatch I spotted a speeder heading the opposite direction. Wouldn't catch the phantom speeder; but anything to keep me the hell away from potential conflict with BLM.
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The freeway was properly closed. In which case, that guy had no right or privilege to be there with his car. He will be prosecuted as he should be. He did hit those women with intent.
All of the self-righteous high-fiving and gleeful commenting above is typical of a sickness prevalent among people who refuse to listen to each other and instead reward evil done between them!
This Chief Batiste is the actual problem. What he should have done after closing down the freeway was go out there and arrest every single one of those self-absorbed idiots and put them in jail. Then, after a trial, send them to prison for a year. Instead, they catered to criminals, which always works well. It really encourages them to do it again. And again. And again.
And, as far as I can see, yours is the only self-righteous comment in here. Those freakshows are out there not to help anyone but to be the biggest stink they can be. They are out there to say they will not let us live our lives unless we kneel before their demands. They think how they feel gives them the right to subjugate the rest of us. Right now they do all they can to stop free speech. They do whatever it takes to destroy people's lives if they don't like what they say. They riot, burn, tear down, dox and get people fired for not having the approved opinion. The way these people are going I predict that within five years, some of them will have armed themselves and start killing people. And God help us if people like them get enough power in government.
Oh, and your comment about listening? I don't know if you've been paying attention, but these guys do not listen. I've watched hundreds of videos of people trying to talk to them and it just doesn't work. Just asking the question gets a violent reaction. Know why? Because they aren't interested in a "conversation". They are only interested in telling you about their fantasy and making you repeat it back, with feeling. They have absolutely no tolerance for any view outside their own. Period.
So, sorry if the rest of us gets pissed off when someone comes and takes a dump on our front porch and we shed no tears when something bad happens to them. If they want me to listen, don't take a dump on my front porch.
Rather Chief Batiste is a "problem" or not, the road was closed. The clearly outraged young man had no "business" on the road during its closure.
I will leave your blatant bias up to others to judge. You sure are easy-going with the word, "criminal" as a descriptor. People have a constitutional right to protest-especially when it is in a manner tolerated by the authorities in charge. You nor I really have a place to come from here.
Incidentally, I am no fan of people protesting on public access-ways (including streets), and I do understand it is inconveniencing. But, there are always 'work arounds' or patiently waiting as alternatives to creating a life or death situation for other motorists, protestors, WSDOT personnel, and "our troopers"
Absolutely. That is how they do it Russia, Turkey, N. Korea and China to name a few.
Free speech 'my arse, right?' Hell, Putin is guaranteed leadership until he's in his eighties. Ought to do that in the US too, right?
Yeah well. Happy Fourth of July too. Wonder if the dude in Jag would have ran over George Washington?
To you I will say this: for every one finger you point away from you at someone else, three are pointing back at you. Check your humanity. Projection fail, too. Conservatives have taken more than their fair share. If you wish to be unreasonable and ask for more yet again, then you will be told, "Enough"!
Brother "Christian" you would fare better to remember to shed the tear. Jesus wept.*
* You know the verse in the Bible. Go back "in" for a time of refreshing!
Typical leftist response.
No one is violating their right to free speech. These assholes have no right to block roads, freeways, or highways. Got it?!
More typical leftist BS.
If he was standing in the middle of the freeway blocking traffic; yeah, I am sure he would have.
I am an atheist. I spit on the stupid from all sides.
The "protesters" were the epitome of Darwin award winners. Natural selection occurred. Hopefully those that survived learned for the future. Highly doubt it.
Explain how a car is part of natural selection. Please proceed. As for learning from our past experiences, yeah -can't we all?
Typical? You've worn out the term.
Stop it. You are arguing emotion; not fact.
Some people obey vehicular traffic closure notices. The driver and his vehicle are in violation of a state police closure. And, now his butt is 'grass' under the terms of law x 2!
Thou doth protest too much. It is a Trump 'thing' I reckon. Speaking of which, your "better Trumpian half" will probably chime in by Sunday morning.
I am fixated on the knowledge that Trump is his supporters' kryptonite. He has sworn y'all to media silence. Fascinating: his reach that is.
Didn't watch the video did you? The morons saw the car coming and didn't get the hell out of the way! They were too damn busy trying to block it's path and record their mass stupidity for the world to see. Miss the part where the cell phone was doing 360's after the idiot holding it was hit?
That is Darwin's law operating at it's finest!
As for them learning. They didn't learn a damn thing!
They blamed the driver of the car. (They wouldn't have been hit if they weren't doing something illegal- like blocking a freeway!)
They blamed the police slow response time (The police had to navigate the BLM protest). This is the same police these retarded protesters want defunded, disbanded, and gone! See their stupid hypocrisy?
They blamed the medical response being blocked by their damn protest!
I am willing to be these self entitled assholes will try and do it again- and up the number people doing it! As a show of force that they can't be pushed around by anyone!
I'm pretty much clueless about what your point is. Having re-read all your posts, I'm pretty sure you're clueless as to what you are talking about as well. No one here is saying the guy who hit the women with his car was right in doing so yet you keep going on as if that were the discussion. The point everyone else is making is that we wouldn't even be talking about this if the criminals weren't on the freeway to begin with. Put another way, we are saying that the freeway isn't a proper/good/legal/intelligent/justifiable place to protest and we're not going to shed a tear for someone who got hurt doing something not simply stupid but intended to maliciously poke everyone else in the eye.
The fact that the freeway was closed isn't debatable and is only pertinent to the possible guilt of the driver. No one is arguing against you on this. So, please, if you want to contribute something useful to the conversation, stop trying to make the argument about that. If you like you can argue a case as to whether or not it should have been closed down. That's one of the reasons I posted this. In my opinion, it should not have, except for the purpose of making it safer for the police to safely arrest these criminals.
And if you think my attitude is unchristian, then please point out how specifically. Vague innuendo isn't cutting it.
The car could not hit anybody, singular or plural, had it not been on the blocked roadway. But, continue to ignore the obvious. Sadly, this dude has ongoing issues for a good portion of his life! The rest of your comment is just redundant.
What part of your point do you think is so complex that I can't understand it? Jesus wept.
@7.2
Who "dumped" on your porch specifically? One of the women hit is graveyard dead today. She is 'marking time' in another realm now. She will be celebrated for her service to a cause larger than herself in this life:
Jesus wept.
I have just about had it up to my eyeballs with unaffected Christians! If you are going to have a faith in Christ, I'd suggest you age it a grade greater than that of the Christian-Right and its politics. Our belief system is very old and it did not see its better days just because Christian fundamentalism grew up in the 1920s or any other ideology for a evangelical/political branch movement for that matter. Our country is not and will not be the be all for Christianity, if that is what is floating around somewhere in your mind.
The fact that the freeway is closed is tantamount to why the women were hit by a speeding jaguar on a closed Seattle freeway during protest . So don't you dare try to lecture me about what to "contribute" to make a discussion "palatable" for your selection! How dare you.
Rather it is you and others who are trying to make this about the other issue: the BLM protestors being there to begin with. You are using them as a pretext to make your own political statement. However, your point fails, because protestors do protest on freeways and other inconvenient locations in order to get the attention essential to their messaging, and the system (this time) allowed for that. As life is more important than any body getting where they would like to go.
It was not that young man's decision or call to make!
Don't try and patronize me again-Drakkonis.
The protesters on freeways. Who block the roads for the purpose of blocking the roads.
Not for dying on a freeway she had no business or right to be on while protesting. All you have to do to see this is look at the comments in the YouTube videos. I couldn't find even a comment that said they felt sorry for what happened to the women. And she died for an utterly stupid reason. You say they were trying to bring attention to an important cause. That isn't what they were doing. They were holding people's rights to travel freely hostage. Apparently, that was the 19th straight night in a row they held others hostage in this manner. You are not going to find many who will celebrate that except others who think it okay to hold hostage their fellow citizens.
English is obviously not your first language. Not saying that to be mean but it's often difficult to try to figure out what you mean in your sentences. Apparently, you believe my beliefs in Christ are politically motivated. If so, you're wrong. In fact, I would say your image of Jesus seems to be the Politically Correct Social Justice Warrior construct of the progressive left. You know, the one where Jesus is on their side, rather than them being in Jesus' side.
No, the freeway being closed is not "tantamount" (you probably meant "paramount") to why the women were hit. The freeway being closed is just a side note. The women were hit because they were standing on the freeway, where they had no right to be, when the car struck them.
I suspect, however, that what you are trying to communicate is that the criminals on the freeway bear no responsibility for what happened to them and that all and any responsibility lies with the driver of the car. You put forth the fact that the police had closed the freeway, thereby giving some sort of license to the criminals for what they were doing. If so, this isn't correct. Not the truth.
So, to answer your question "how dare I?" I dare because I prefer to look at the truth, rather than twist crap into the lie you are presenting. Lie number one. The status of the criminals as "protesters" gives them some sort of right to do what they were doing. Lie number two. The police closed the freeway so that the criminals could do their "protest" thing. Truth number one. They had no right to do what they were doing. There are laws against it and they don't provide exceptions for protesting. Truth number two. The police did not close the highway in order to give the criminals a platform for their "protest" but because they wanted to avoid having to remove them violently. The police didn't want them doing what they were doing but in the current environment, someone didn't have the courage to do what should have been done from the beginning and that enabled the criminals to keep doing what they were doing. Now we have a dead woman because someone didn't have the courage to do what was right.
Believe what you wish, CB, but for most of us, the issue is simply "stop holding us hostage on the freeways, roads and streets".
No one said it was. No one will, no matter how much you try to get them to.
Whatever. I doubt I will bother responding to you further. I'm not sure why I bothered this time.
“So don't you dare try to lecture me about what to "contribute" to make a discussion "palatable" for your selection! How dare you.“
You ought to take your own advice.
(pl6) is code-talking? What? When? How? Who? Those many?
You don't have a "right" to a freeway, Drakkonis. Or is that a 'white privilege' you think you have? Think about it: Government controlled access under state police control. White privilege temporarily halted.
Insults? Irrelevant. English, not my first language? I could be stricken down to my knees by that dig. On the other hand, what you think of my English means little to me one way or the other. Now getting to something else you tried to make a point:
What's wrong with this sentence construction? In fact, you are using political construction parlance to deny you have any political religious and conservative leanings. BTW, since you won't ever get to the larger point, excuse me, Jesus came long before Columbus, so there is no proper connection of this country to the faith of 'the ancients.'
Try to be forthright in your answers: Jesus is watching us. And, so consequently, is the 'outside' world.
Why do you get to label these protestors, plural, a thing the policing authorities nor the state has done? What authority do you exercise in doing this? Has the state police arrested these protestors and charged them with commission of crime/s? Please point out the charge/s. Please proceed. . . .
That makes their day. And i hear they get a gold star and a free bowl of soup from the Soros politically correct punctuation police.
The SPCPP ......
You are drawing your own conclusions. Civil disobedience is a different form of peaceful protest. The policing authorities (and their superiors) set the parameters of the interactions with protestors—not a murderous driver in violation of a blockade.
Twice you have implied the authorities were cowards paralyzed by the protestors. I will remind you the road was officially blocked-an approved method of separating people and vehicles used by state police and area police, and other authorities the world over. Calling the use of the technique, cowardly, is just you being— .
I would like to know how you viewed the Clive Bundy roadway protest:
Fox News segment on Clive Bundy's Ranch 4/12/2014 3pm PDT
Clive Bundy militia friends established "first amendment zones" that blocked roadways for how long?
Drakkonis, I would like your take on these so-called "patriots." Are they criminals to your way of looking at the world ?
All the more reason we now have GPS. Find alternative routes to a destination. Easy peasy.
Oh, please do stay in the loop. Especially let's get to the bottom of this question about God's apparent "other" children some of you find 'wanting.'
It wasn't intended as an insult. I am telling you for your information that you are often hard to understand because of your sentence structure, word usage and non-sequiturs, which means I often don't know what you are intending to communicate. I'm not trying to make fun of you. I am trying to tell you you aren't communicating effectively. Maybe you don't care about what I think of your English but you should care about whether or not what you say is understood.
U kwept during tha numeral 6 kay mostly than once. I think it was sign'ing some than' and me wanna know how that is. All y'all mighta jest told m6 it was mistaken!
More like several 'caughts' it reminds me of a stuck key (or code signaling). For the record, I don't mind typos, I have a 'bad' and repetitive habit of editing my comments on the fly. Additionally, I have the misfortune to type these comments while multi-tasking and/or tired.
Later on, during a reread I go "duh!" a lot. Oh well. I do get over it, nevertheless. (These comments are not graded, so 'whew'!)
Another funny! You're a gem.
I saw more than one here and somewhere else from you? Anyway, don't make it weird. "Don't have a cow." - Bart Simpson!
Lookit for instance - same 6 (bolded):
Keep going, you're get there soon enough.
You should talk to the mods around here. But,I digress. You will have to catch up if you care to. This is a moderated comment board and I have no intention of being taken down every other comment, simply because you and other conservatives can't cope. Sorry, to be blunt. But your comments are not so great either. But, I manage to get your gist.
Besides, I type distracted, multi-tasking, between jobs, and tired. But, who cares right? We do what we can around here. I'll keep up. Maybe you can too?
FYI, I do make many (comment) publishing mistakes, but oh well. It's a comment board, after all. I get over those world blunders and blemishes.
“The freeway was properly closed.”
Did you see in the video police officer talk about how they’ve told protestors since may 30th not to protest on a roadway because it is not safe. Closures or not, a roadway is a stupid place to protest. Even construction workers in coned off areas get hit sometimes.
“He did hit those women with intent.”
how the fuck do you know that? It looked to me he tried to avoid the largest mass of people, his brake lights were on.
“All of the self-righteous high-fiving and gleeful commenting above is typical”
what a stupid comment. I see no “high-fiving”, i see no “glee.” I do see agreement on the stupidity of those protesting on a freeway, especially at night.
Imagine the outrage if the driver was white and the two idiots were black? It just happens to be reversed in this case. Where are the raging accusations of racism? The silence is deafening.
Your bias is clearly evident. The freeway was closed to vehicular traffic. What do you have to show us (all) otherwise?
“Your bias is clearly evident.”
thank you for recognizing i am biased against people doing stupid things they shouldn’t be doing.
“The freeway was closed to vehicular traffic.”
yet somebody was able to drive down that “closed” freeway.
“What do you have to show us (all) otherwise?”
not that you’ll watch, but if you do, about the 1:30 mark a washington state patrolman talks about telling protestors since may 30th not to protest on roadways because it is not safe. He was correct. Closure or no closure it is not safe, it is stupid.
This video is sickening to watch. Here are pics of those involved?
Faces and names of those involved. Car rammer and two female victims.
Credit for images:
Then, the freeway closure MATTERS.
Stupid is not a term of law, is it? The freeway was closed to vehicle traffic by the proper authorities. What's your problem with understanding this? Calm your biases.
If the car was not on the freeway - no protestors, right or wrong, could be rammed!
Well, good! I overlook the 'noise.'
Calm my biases? Listen bud, you are nothing to me. I’ll give my opinion on any article in here. If you don’t like it that’s too damned bad for you.
You must have met a lot of those since you can recognize them so well. I guess if they were "meth ho's" or "streetwalkers" that would mean they didn't have human lives so their death by some brainless asshole means nothing. Right? /s
Would you say the same if one of them was your Daughter?
Cute. But you 'read' them how? On appearances? Or do you know them for real?
It's call "fence-straddling," Trump supporters. And it does not work more than one way. That "dude" is going to have serious problems in court! No matter the skin color hie is in, either.
Hey. didn't you read the article? It was a white jaguar that hit the two protesters. It was the white vehicle's fault. If the car had been any other color those protesters would still be alive.
But thank you for proving the point. If it were a white male driver hitting two African American protesters the media would have lost it's collective mind. Instead of them reporting it the race of the driver and the victims involved; they are making everyone dig for the information.
You forgot had the National Anthem blaring on the radio.
I get to be responsible for media, how and when? Please elaborate. . . . Otherwise, . . . .
Meh. I read what you said. And I won't waste valuable time going over it again. But feel free at your own expense.
Did anyone claim you were responsible for the media?
Again trying to claim something no one is stating.
Oh, so you can't elaborate. . . . Uh-uh. I see now. (Chuckles.)
You again like to read into everything, even when there is nothing there.
Are you sure you are not a Democratic politician somewhere?
I would call you a Republican politician; but you state none of their beliefs.
No. I am sure I am just little old CB! (Chuckles.)
Okay, 'fish! You are my friend and you like me! Because I call it as I see it.
Donald Trump is not a conservative. If so ask him to prove it: Give Trump a conservative's conservative task that he takes issue against and determine if he does it (ever). How about this one for instance:
Trump promise he would make Mexico pay for the new border wall with a door. Demand Trump recommit to getting a signed contract from Mexico for the payments-before y'all will vote for him in November.
Let's see if y'all 'win' or if Donald win over y'all.
Natural selection at work .....
Guffaw funny fail. A motor vehicle is not part of nature. So, you're wrong.
Let's take a different tack. The road/freeway is closed by authorities:
In that case; neither should that driver you are positively arguing for. He should not have ignored the closure. In doing so, he has altered the permanent course of his life and that of two women (under the law even).
You are defending his (privilege of) being on the freeway (where he was) when he called calamity. You can't have it both ways. Choose, don't 'straddle,' Trump supporter!
Your comments are simple. I read them easy.
Lol ....natural selection (NS) doesn’t magically stop because a motor vehicle is involved. In fact, it enhances the effect. Offering more ways to complete the process. NS doesn’t have a political bias nor does it care about any PC sensibilities. It’s clear that your understand of how natural selection works is pretty sophomoric.
Organisms that can’t adapt to their environment tend to get taken out to better propagate the organisms future existence with stronger, smarter organisms. NS doesn’t care about self righteous disagreement about that. A weak organism gets in a car, drives where he shouldn’t and hits two more weak organisms standing in the middle of a highway. Something we learned we shouldn’t do in kindergarten or earlier.
Its very unfortunate to be sure but natural selection doesn’t care about those sentiments either.
Your comment is demeaning and bigoted. I dismiss it as it should be. If natural selection worked as we all wished it would bigots would not exist in the United States, as they would be as departed as the weeds we 'Round-Up' and wish away.
Nope, only for those with over-developed PC sensibilities. Another word for that is Snowflake.
So delicate, so fragile. And besides, most folks who really dismiss comments don’t feel the need to respond to them.
That’s usually the narcissist coming out in cases like this ....
Proving once again, you zero idea of how NS really works.
Yes, you are correct: Donald Trump's speeches are bigoted, spiteful, and out of touch/step with today!
No
Nope
And wrong again .....
I'm afraid not! Nipple. (Just one possibility?)
What about dis one over ↔ ?
Doesn't matter. The nation is divided. The political minority has more power and is far more aggressive than the political majority.
If you read the youtube posts that power is changing. They might not have nearly the power that they, or you think, they do.
Sure. You mean like standing in line for hours to cast a ballot?
You mean like------Nowhere to go and all day to get there?" Your description is apt----in a roundabout sort of way.
BTW, topic video (for all to see):
2 Women Hit By Car on Seattle Highway Closed Amid Protests
This is not merely some academic discussion, lives have and will continue to be impacted by this one occasion.
As a CDL driver not only would I not stop , I wouldn't even slow down , all of us learned very early in life not to play on a freeway, assholes want to end up as greasy spots on the highway , that's their business, some entitled fucktard wants to try , let them, the name Reginald Denny is still very fresh in my mind , and the rule of who has the biggest lug nuts still rules true and they will lose every time and be forgotten to the annals of time.
.
Mark you will end up in jail for disregard for policing roadblocks. Now is that how you want to roll? As disobeying policing authorities signs? BTW, the sign was posted to protect more than protestors on the roadway. Would you wish anyone of them to end up a "grease spot" from your ramming them?
One of the protestors has died. —Posted as an FYI. (No other reason.)
You are making a few assumptions .
assumption #1 is that the authorities had enough time to set up road blocks of any sort to shut down the roadway. so how can one ignore something that wasn't set up? even if it is set up later in a timely manner?
Ass. #2 would be thinking that authorities , if they have acted in a timely manner to support safety for all on the roadway would be ignored., and since most highway blockages are unplanned , it will be the first few minutes that will be most dangerous until the authorities can figure out what THEY will be doing ,meaning close the road or get them off the highway as fast as possible . And it is those unplanned , spontaneous situations I mention.
Ass. #3 you are assuming that a person or groups right to protest extends to anywhere at any time and I would mostly agree with that with a certain amount of preplanning , and notification , Right up to the point where protesters rights to protest infringe on anyone elses rights, in this case the right to travel on roadways unmolested , their rights end where others begins IMO.
Ass. #4 Is you seem to think I haven't thought this out very well, when in fact I have as have many other drivers and we are left with any number of options .
Option one is if caught in said situation , do exactly what I stated , don't stop , depending on what one is hauling , it could also be illegal to do so because both the truck and load could be used for terroristic means , and how is a driver to know if those protesters are merely protesters and not some cell of terrorists mixed in? Reggie Denny made the mistake of stopping , so too did that fed Ex driver who ended up driving off with a "protester /looter" getting caught in his conversion gear between trailers and dragging said person to their deaths .
Option two for the driver would happen if they have advance warning of a road blockage and have a safe way to get off and circumnavigate around the problem point , this is the option most would take IMO . IF it can be done .
Option three, drivers simply refuse to take loads into areas , even outlaying areas where unrest is currently taking place , drivers have a wealth of information at their disposal and have the right to refuse loads if they choose too. which will affect everyone in that area with shortages and higher prices , because those that MIGHT choose to take a load in will do so at a very much higher rate of pay, call it hazard pay .
And covid showed us all what happens if the trucking and freight industry is even mildly affected .
EVERY drive I have come across in the past month have pretty much stated those are exactly the 3 options they face and would use them in reverse order from 3 to 1 if needed and none have expressed any regrets if option 1 needs employed , to them , they don't care about others safety but their own when pushed , which is human nature .
people want to play human frogger and prove darwins theory , that's on them . I wont lose any sleep over it.
#1 Protesters were on the freeway for more than an hour before the car drove around the blockade around 1:36 a.m., Mead said.
The remainder (Note: I am reading this fast so forgive me if I miss something critical):
'At the end of the day' you will be arrested and hauled off to jail and in this specific scenario serve time for your impatience with a policing 'matter.' You would not be any more inconvenienced than anybody else.
Turn on your GPS and take an alternative route. The police are in charge as officers of the state police; not Citizen "Saturdays."
I choose option 3 as many drivers are doing currently , refusing to haul loads into or out of such areas of unrest.
the biggest misassumptions is that you think I would ignore an established road closure , and another misassumption is that an alternate route is available to semi traffic . many places restrict where a semi can and cannot go , even if it is simply turning around.
You are correct in stating under the scenario that transpired , someone would be going to jail for failure to obey , and someone already has , the one that drove the jag.
Mark, I didn't assume you were a driver! So, . . . . Anyway, don't make the delivery/ies, if/since you can not do so normally, legally, or take an alternate route. The "scenario" plays itself out every time there is a freeway closure somewhere on the planet. Protest as a form of affecting changes in society is not normal, by definition. It is an outside the status quo reaction to get groups to consider change/s they otherwise never will expose themselves or their groups to, or to acquire equity treatment of a right or privilege.
BTW, I don't support some forms of civil disobedience even though I can understand its value and usage for those who do execute such tactics! That's just me, however. It works. Moreover, society know it can work having experience with it doing so often.
You didn't have to assume anything, even though I am semi retired at 58( and have been for the last decade) , I still hold a cdl and a valid medical card with no restrictions for the next 2 years , and I have made no secret that I drive a semi to stay busy even though I don't have to work , its because I want to AND I get to pick and choose what I haul where I haul it and when I haul it.
the urban society might last 3 days without trucks continuing to roll , after 3 days the shortages of just about everything would make people start to wonder , ever wonder what would happen if every truck driver got fed up with these types of conditions that they should NOT have to be facing and decided to stop rolling in protest for a week? Think the tp shortage was bad?
As a driver , im saying keep the protests off the highways and interstates because it will not change anyones mind and will likely gain greater opposition.
Ever wonder what would happen if protestors did not go back to work for their conservative bosses? It would involve more than clean butts, I'm thinking. We all need each other. More than just opinion. That's a fact.
Well Im a minimalist , have been most of my life , and there is one thing that I have found that is absolute fact , protesters wish not to go back to work that's ok , because there is always someone out there hungry enough to move into the spot they vacate , it just matters how hungry they get both figuratively and literally , the one that controls the food and the means to get it actually controls the people..
Then what is all this "liberty" and flag-waving about? If people are controlled utterly, nobody is free! For the masters need servants and the servant needs masters. It's mutually assured interdependence. The two parties forge together to become one in business. Or there is another tool: the boycott, another form of protest, to demonstrate how essential it is to work together to solve a business-related issue.
I would say now your catching on somewhat, and for me the whole point is NOT to be interdependent and held at anothers whims of the moment for any reason , and I strive and have done exactly that for myself . what I do have as for convienience , I have lived without before and can do so again . and sometimes wonder if things are not better of that way for myself.
I am not dependant on either of the parties , they are just opposite wings of the same dirty courupt bird known as politics.
I am not dependent, in the sense you likely mean it, to any party. That is, I have moved between the two major parties at will. I am not beholden or overly invested in either republican or democratic parties. One party is full of it undoubtedly, nevertheless. And I call them out for being full of it. Consequently, the other one gets my attention and my vote.
I do not view government as a necessary evil. Somebody has to lead in a country this size or chaos will result. This was borne out in the states of fifty or more years ago, where a hodge-podge of ideologies and state policies got a great many (shall we ever know how many?) citizens, in all groupings, killed under local "rules."
Your making too much sense Mark, some can't handle such...
According to the police the guy drove the wrong way on an off ramp and drove around a barricade. It was clearly premeditated murder. One of the women died since last night.
Indeed. Shutting down a freeway (much less for 19 days) goes well beyond a productive protest. Worse, it is irresponsible.
As a result of the hit-and-run by Dawit Kelete. It is difficult to imagine the thought process of one who would purposely (it seems) drive a car into a bunch of protestors with sufficient force to kill (as he has indeed done).
Note: it seems the seeded article might have changed its title. The title now showing is: "Woman killed, another injured after being hit by speeding Jaguar on closed Seattle freeway during protests"
Maybe a little local perspective is in order...
The WSP several times a day was making announcements that they were closing the freeway to prevent pedestrians from getting hurt. In no way were they supporting any protest or political position. They were acting in the best interests of public safety.
The protesters were violating laws about walking on the freeway in the first place as their act of "Civil" disobedience... More power to them... it was easier to shut down the freeway than give the protestors what they wanted which was a confrontation with cops.....
The Dude that entered the freeway violated all kinds of laws like driving down the wrong side of the freeway as well as exceeding speed limits while doing that... He also broke specific temporary orders by authorized officials to access the freeway....
And the result is exactly what the WSP was trying to prevent....
When I grew up, two wrongs do not make a right....
The two ladies that were struck were violating community rules in support of what they wanted to do....
The driver violated all kinds of rules in committing at least 2nd degree murder.... I guess he did what he was wanting to also....
The aftermath?
The WSP is now doing what they should have been doing in the first place, arresting and removing anyone who tries to take a stroll down the freeway....
Of course there is the whole chop situation as well where the mayor of seattle only decided that the violence was enough when they went to her house to commit violence... Not even 8 shootings and two murders were sufficient cause to shut it down. It took them showing up at her door for her to act.... Notwithstanding that all the violence murders, rapes and property destruction was mostly black on black crime.... (the shootings and murders were) So much for BLM.... it only matters when there is a TV camera around...
On another note, I went to olympia a few weeks ago, I was going to march in the BLM march on the capital.... up until the point where the organizer told all us white people we had to go to the back of the march cause they wanted to put a "Black Face" on the march for the cameras.... I left and went home... When I was marching in the '60's If King or any of his organizers had said anything such I would have left back then also....
WE were supposed to be fighting institutional racism, only to get slapped with their own brand of institutional racism... I left thinking what would Rosa Parks say to being ordered to the back of the bus.....
I guess BLM could care less about the sacrifices and suffering that was endured under Jim Crow and the violence we suffered getting civil rights for everyone...
BLM is a political movement never forget that, they could care less about true civil rights and institutional racism their ideals only go one way.....
Dr Martin Luther King would reject their ideals...
In my opinion, acting in the best interest of public safety would have been to get people off the freeway in the first place and keep them off. Had they done that, this calamity would never have happened.
I say fuck em (not the people for being injured - just the protestors in general). Get a permit and do it right. It's not hard.
I advocate for reform in policing and I have personally argued against racist policing. We can agree on an issue, but camping on the freeway hurts people. If you have to get to your job or the hospital and the freeway is your best - or only - bet, you can't do it because some bunch of assholes think they have a right to block the road. Fuck em. I have zero sympathy for protestors who illegally block roads - especially critical arteries like the freeway.
Yeah, he's apparently a nut. His wrongdoing doesn't excuse the wrongdoing of the cops, the mayor, or the people on the freeway, though. This was 100% avoidable.
They were getting ready to cut it off, the first day they had over 1,000 people, as you can see the day the women were hit, they were down to less than 60...
Two things were done by shutting down the freeway,
#1 if everybody followed the instructions no one would have gotten hurt,
#2 the protestors didn't get what they wanted which was a big confrontation with it's attendant media coverage...
Outside of one fool killing someone to get his day in the spotlight it was a non-issue....
I would say the WSP handled it very intelligently... Of course we could have easily had lines of armor clad officers in open warfare on the freeways splashed all over the media worldwide....
what they did was a much better controlled outcome in my opinion... they didn't get what they wanted and no one got hurt by the government doing it...
A solid win...
Did I say that? I don't think so....
Avoiding the question? there was no question, there was a declaration of what you thought about my statement posed as a question.... Then a statement of your opinion....
When was the last time you saw me avoid a question? (of course I haven't been on in over a year so you may have forgotten me)
I suppose it would have been more satisfying that we have open warfare on the freeway seeing heads getting bashed and people hauled away in chains on the evening news everynight... or maybe allow those social justice warriors to start their socialist revolution right then and there... make martyrs of them all...
Time to knock heads right? cause they were inconveniencing everyone else....
Your right, prove to the world that we are exactly what they describe us as....
Thankfully we have wiser people in charge of the WSP....
So what was lost here, a perfect opportunity to kick ass and take names in the name of law and order....
Got it..
I still call it a win...
Just because a statement is followed by a question mark doesn't make it an actual question... a classic form of projecting the course of a conversation or debate...
So as an example I threw in the part about knocking heads, no you didn't say anything of the sort....
We only have the rights we can defend and if you were not on the freeway then it didn't inconvenience you did it? none of your rights were violated were they? And we have a right to drive on the freeway? Driving is a privilege not a right, and a freeway is a controlled access highway.... Government controlled access...
No one has a right to drive on the freeway....
Yes there are public safety laws that also do not allow people to walk on the freeway. So the controlling authority, Government, has a choice to make
Safety of the walkers or the inconvenience of the drivers?
They made the better choice in my opinion.... the only other choice is to knock heads enforcing the law... which is what the walkers wanted...
And besides neither one of us was there, as a walker or inconvenienced driver, so how is it we have the right to second guess... or monday morning quarterback so to speak?
Neither of us do.... So rather than continue this expose in imputing our emotions and rationals on each other. Why don't we just be happy that it is over, the protestors didn't get what they wanted and the PTB's learned that sometimes it is better to do it right the first time rather than wait for something bad to happen...
Peace my friend....
Hmmm .... that must be the new English because it sure as hell sounded like a question to me ......
Hello Sparty how ya been....
And yeah, I'm sure it did.... {chuckle}
Nothing to do with new or old english, just a by and by between two that do know how to use it...
Good to see ya again...
I'm thinking that when you have people who think it's cool to hang out on the freeway, they probably don't care much about following instructions. It's probably not wise to bet on them doing the right thing.
You don't know that.
I'll bet you that at least a couple of times a night, somewhere in the city, somebody is being attacked - maybe raped - and someone calls the police to come save them. And the fastest way for the nearest cop to get there could well be the freeway. Except they can't go that way because a bunch of self-important a-holes didn't feel like getting a permit to demonstrate in the park.
I'll also bet you that once or twice a night, somebody gets really sick. Maybe they are having some cardiac event or they can't breathe because of Covid. Or maybe someone was in a traffic accident and is bleeding out somewhere on the side of the road. A family member or an ambulance wants to rush them to a hospital and they go to jump on the freeway but it's blocked by the above-referenced a-holes.
Guess emergency services will be taking the streets. No big deal.
So maybe a beating goes on a little longer or a rape continues, or maybe a very sick person dies who wouldn't have. All so these social justice heroes can take over the freeway and pretend they are doing something that matters.
Yeah maybe this, maybe that, you can maybe anything to justify your position... problem is maybe as you are using it is supposition.. the problem with your argument is your using supposition to justify it...
Hey maybe I agree with you, maybe I don't... What do you suppose is my position?
If you could prove your suppositions then you wouldn't need suppositions in the first place. Automatic argument fail right there...
You can argue supposition any time and the advantage of it is you need not one lick of proof.
Isn't that what you claim the libbies do all the time? pose arguments based upon supposition without one lick of proof?
Thought so...
That's the problem with the discussions on this board, most of the bitterest arguments are entirely supposition based on both sides...and neither side has the brains to stop it...
Me, my enemy wants something, I am able to deny it to him without having to waste the energy to kick his ass, the victory is even sweeter...
WSP won this one... with a show of brains not brawn, hands down....
It's you guys that automatically want to jump to muscle and breaking heads and busting people that scare me the most... That's exactly what the marxists want and you all are so ready to jump right in there and give it to them...
Bullets n beatdowns before brains is ALWAYS a losing proposition....
Been well .... you?
So, the two who know how to use it.
That would be you and who else? A mouse in your pocket?
And welcome back ....
OK. You are the person who said "no one got hurt." It's your claim. Prove it.
You clearly were only thinking of the people on the freeway when you made your claim. All I have done is to show you how limited that thinking was. There is a whole city full of people who rely on the freeway for an endless list of things - some of them life-saving. It's not supposition to say so. Do you deny it?
I never said anything about breaking heads.
Why would there be bullets and beatdowns? Is the crowd planning on attacking the cops?
It's a simple matter of enforcing the law to keep the roads open. All you have to do is start arresting people. That shouldn't really be a controversial position.
If there was a days or weeks-long occupation of the freeway by some MAGA crowd, would you let them just stay? What if it was someone really radical like the Klan, some neo-nazis, or someone like that? You still want to just let them be? Or do you really only support the people on the freeway because you sympathize with their viewpoint?
Right, move the goal posts....
I'm not going to bandy suppositions with you,
1,000 people who were already rioting with police decided to take over the freeway... I wasn't using supposition in that statement they were already in bullets and beatdown mode.....
So either start the war or take a different approach....
Using the different approach yes, inconvenienced a lot of people, but until some jackoff decided on his own volition to ignore the lawful orders of the authorities, no one got hurt....
You cannot sluff that off using supposition. My facts are already out there, it is now incumbent on you to prove your assertion...
I would try that rather then move the goal posts trying to support your factless suppositions....
That's not true. You wrote this early on:
Come clean; you have no sympathy for the injured "protestors" as they are a portion of protestors in general.
By asking you to prove your claim? I don't think that's what "moving the goal posts" means.
Yeah, they sound like great people when you put it like that. /s
Who? The police? How many people did they shoot? How many did they beat up? What exactly are you talking about?
You seem to have a very casual concept of what is "lawful" and when we should care. There is certainly nothing lawful about citizens blocking a freeway, but that doesn't seem to bother you. And if the police take action to support an illegal activity, how can that be lawful?
What facts? I have already asked you for facts supporting your claim that no one was hurt, but you haven't supplied any. You also claim all of this was somehow lawful and I think we all know that isn't a fact.
Nowhere man makes some insights points, eh? I think so. And no, I don't view Nowhere Man as a liberal (if memory serves.)
You seem to think that the scenarios I described either can't happen or never happen. I don't have specific information about this particular situation (perhaps it is too soon to know, what with medical information being private), but it does happen . Here are some examples:
Anti-Trump protesters shut down highway, delay ambulance
Officials: 2 ambulances diverted thanks to I-93 protesters
Patient Died After 23-Minute Delay For Paramedics During Berkeley Protests
Peter Cukor Killed After Police, Allegedly Busy With Occupy Protest, Failed To Respond To Call
Woman Goes Into Labor While Stuck On I-80 Freeway During ‘I Can’t Breathe’ Protests
NE Ambulance Going to Call Blocked by Protesters
Think it can't happen in Seattle? It did two years ago on the street:
This past month, it certainly was a concern of the chief.
Emergency response time more than triples due to Seattle occupy protesters
How can you justify the risk?
God that's stupid. Don't tell me what I think, and especially don't come in here with bullshit accusations. I was clear. I feel bad that someone is hurt, but there is NO justification for blocking the freeway. None. Period. End of Story. Furthermore, it shouldn't shock anyone that eventually someone got hit by a car. They put themselves in danger.
Badfish! I am RotfLOL! (You caught me off-guard-and in doing so made my day!)
Over-stimulated? A walk or some down time works for me. Civil disobedience is an allowable form of protest. Just ask Clive Bundy of 2014 Bundy Ranch/BLM/Militia' Standoff.
BLM again? (Chuckles.)
@16.1.16. Emphatically. You "protest" is noted, nevertheless.
You wrote, and I quote:
The two women are protestors behaving in civil disobedience on a freeway. You have 'not any' sympathy for such women. —Your words.
It's simple... you want facts? just look up the media reporting on it it was all over the TV news in living color... a thousand plus angry people moved on the freeway while in capitol hill the SPD were doing the barricades, rubber bullets and teargas routine while being pelted with rocks, bricks and frozen water bottles...
Like I said my facts are out there in living full color video.... instead of going the bullets barricades and teargas routine like the SPD did, the WSP (state patrol handles the freeways here) decided to do it the easy way and avoid the fight and stop people from getting hurt... besides it was also the better part of valor there were 50 officers to handle 1,000+ angry people who were climbing over fences and ignoring all orders to do anything with rocks, bricks and frozen water bottles... they were a bit outnumbered...
they made the right choice tactically and yes given what was happening on Capitol Hill, thinking about it tactically was the appropriate response...
Like I said my facts are out there you still have supposition on what they "SHOULD" have done in your glorious opinion...
Now if just one of those protestors had thrown a bottle brick or rock, then they needed their asses kicked with the full power of the law. but they didn't. So it was handled appropriately.
all your "What Iffing" notwithstanding... oh yeah, the delays in services, were happening on Capitol Hill, in the occupied zone where the Seattle Police were ordered to back off and surrender. they didn't happen during the freeway marches where the state police were in charge....
Another little fact to throw your supposition out the window with...
We are charged a gas tax to pay for highways, If roads are blocked by protesters then those who paid the tax are being cheated
Charger, are you okay with all the other expenditures we are being cheated out of in this country? C'mon now. Civil disobedience is a 'thing' in this country. We don't like it and we don't have to, but it does change hearts and minds accordingly. So what is this griping about rules. We let a great many things go by without protesting as we should.
I am pointing out one very glaring problem, These protesters should never be allowed to block roads. Their petty grips should not be allowed to bother other people.
why is some protest more important than use of the highway?
Well said ... and they are not.
In the moment, I don't agree with protestors blocking highways. However, I can be amenable to what protestors hope to accomplish. Civil disobedience gets positive results, sometimes immediately.Two examples:
1. AIDS Coalition to Unleash Power ( ACT UP ) advanced HIV-AIDS research by "acting up"
2. Bloody Sunday On March 7, 1965 around 600 people crossed the Edmund Pettus Bridge in an attempt to begin the Selma to Montgomery march. State troopers violently attacked the peaceful demonstrators in an attempt to stop the march for voting rights .
President Lyndon B. Johnson signs the Voting Rights Act in August 6, 1965.
You are shifting in your position. That's nice. No content recognition, nevertheless. I digress. Civil disobedience means you go where your protest makes it uncomfortable and observable for the maximum amount of people and those empowered to act on the display. Remember the Tea Party!
What is the left like to say again, "Different times, different times"
The Tea Party occurred when again? Refresh our memories. Why did it occur? Who was it against?
Get back to us if you think something like the Tea Party would be tolerated against the US Government, or even a corporation, business, or individual underneath our current laws.
Tea Party Influence in Congress
Scary, that so many can;t C
I'll give you senseless...................................right here. Sad................
Didn't their mothers teach them not to Play in the Street when they were kids ?
Much like elections, playing in the road has consequences
"Choice" is all that .....until it doesn't fit an agenda !
It was the "Jaguars" fault they were "Hit" when they made a "Choice" to play in a Road much traveled !
I don't get why they would even want to close a highway or any road. all that does is piss people off.
why would they not want to be on the side of a lower street letting cars pass so everyone can read the signs and get on board with the cause?
if someone could explain.... that would be great. LOL
If you bother me with your protesting you will turn me against your cause.
Two words...
Television Cameras.....
so they piss of the locals so they can get on tv and piss off millions more?
solid plan.... LOL I was looking for a good reason not a stupid one.
when the left loses in nov you will know why.
hint: protesting peacefully gets the same number of tv cameras with much fewer people being pissed off and more people joining the cause.
or..... act like animals and get run over like animals.
well, no one has claimed they were intelligent....