US should lead, not lecture, on China's crackdown in Hong Kong (Opinion)

  

Category:  Op/Ed

Via:  buzz-of-the-orient  •  one month ago  •  67 comments

By:   Tai-Heng Cheng

US should lead, not lecture, on China's crackdown in Hong Kong (Opinion)
To command authority globally, the US must, at the very least, abide by the standards it seeks to apply to other countries.

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



US should lead, not lecture, on China's crackdown in Hong Kong (Opinion)

The United States government has attacked  China's new security law for Hong Kong  as undermining political freedoms. Anyone who cares about democratic values should see that there is merit to that criticism. But on an issue that directly targets China's core sovereign interests, it is all too easy for Beijing to dismiss Washington because police forces across the US have been caught in photographs and videos violating the rights of American citizens.

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© APU GOMES/AFP via Getty Images  A demonstrator holds her hands up while she kneels in front of the Police at the Anaheim City Hall on June 1, 2020 in Anaheim, California, during a peaceful protest over the death of George Floyd. - Major US cities -- convulsed by protests, clashes with police and looting since the death in Minneapolis police custody of George Floyd a week ago -- braced Monday for another night of unrest. More than 40 cities have imposed curfews after consecutive nights of tension that included looting and the trashing of parked cars. (Photo by Apu GOMES / AFP) (Photo by APU GOMES/AFP via Getty Images)

Let me be clear that I do not mean that other countries should be excused from human rights violations because of social injustices in the US. But the endemic problems with America's criminal justice system, which have persisted across both  Democratic  and  Republican  administrations, undermine Washington's credibility to take other countries to task for their abuses. To command authority globally, the US must, at the very least, abide by the standards it seeks to apply to other countries.

ast Wednesday, on the 23rd anniversary of the restoration of Hong Kong to China,  Beijing enacted a new national security law  without disclosing the draft to Hong Kong in advance. This law carries maximum sentences of life imprisonment for secession, subversion of state power, terrorist activities and collusion with foreign and external forces to endanger national security. Under the law, Chinese courts have jurisdiction over "very serious" cases and cases where national security faces "serious and realistic threats," overriding the authority of Hong Kong's courts. While  similar laws exist in many countries , including in  the US , there are concerns that these laws will be implemented by China in a way that stifles dissent and undermines the autonomy of Hong Kong.

In response to the new law, US Secretary of State  Michael Pompeo issued a press statement  criticizing "Beijing's attacks on freedoms of speech, the press, and assembly, as well as the rule of law, all of which have, until now, allowed the territory to flourish." Pompeo further stated at a  press briefing , "Security forces are already rounding up Hong Kongers for daring to speak and think freely. The rule of law has been eviscerated."

The demonstrators who have protested all across America for weeks  in response to the killings of George Floyd and Breonna Taylor  might find the State Department's position hypocritical. News reports abound of  peaceful protesters getting arrested by the police  in multiple US cities.

New York Assemblywoman Yuh-Line Niou told me about heart-wrenching incidents of her constituents not knowing where the police had taken their loved ones detained while protesting. When demonstrators were finally released, they recounted the horrific conditions under which they were held, including being denied water to wash tear gas from their eyes.

In the same week that the State Department criticized China's new law, a civil rights subcommittee of the  House Oversight Committee held a public briefing  on First Amendment violations by police at Black Lives Matter protests. The rebuking language they used — "Unjustified, unnecessary and disproportionate government violence against the people is an attack on democracy itself" — opened the briefing about the actions of the police in the US against its own citizens. Rep. Jamie Raskin, the subcommittee's chairman, noted " serious violations of the First Amendment at the hands of government authorities  ... from local police chiefs all the way up to the Attorney General and the President of the United States."

I attended that briefing because I represent, pro bono,  Linda Tirado , a journalist who spoke at the briefing about how police officers shot her with a foam bullet that blinded her in one eye while she covered the civil rights protests in Minneapolis. I listened to the Rev. Gini Gerbasi recount her horror at peaceful protesters being cleared from Lafayette Square with tear gas, without any prior warning and before curfew, so that  President Donald Trump could take a photograph holding a Bible  in front of St. John's Episcopal Church.

Admittedly, while it is easy to demand that the US government reform police practices, criminal law and policing are generally matters for states, not the federal government. Nonetheless, Congress can enact laws that set parameters around police conduct, weapons and training when police forces rely on federal funding.

Various bills are being debated now. The House of Representatives has voted for the  Justice in Policing Act , which has been named after George Floyd. Among other measures, the bill intends to ban choke holds and to end "no knock warrants," the same type of warrant used when  police fatally shooting Breonna Taylor  eight times while she slept in her home in Louisville, Kentucky.

Another bill introduced by Democratic Rep. Mark Takano of California would  deny federal funding to police agencies that use tear gas . This bill accords with an unanimously adopted Senate bill, signed into law by Trump in November 2019,  banning the export of tear gas to the Hong Kong police .

It remains to be seen what police reform laws are actually enacted in the end. However, at a minimum, it would be difficult to explain why it is unconscionable to tear gas Hong Kong protesters but acceptable to tear gas American demonstrators.

Police reform is not only important to promote criminal justice within America. It is an opportunity for the country to lead by example in foreign affairs. The diplomatic exchanges over China's new security law have shown in concrete terms how police violence within America has undermined the State Department's credibility and ability to promote America's interests and values overseas.

On May 30, US State Department spokeswoman Morgan Ortagus  tweeted criticism  of how Beijing has treated Hong Kong protesters: "Freedom loving people around the world must stand with the rule of law and hold to account the Chinese Communist Party, which has flagrantly broken its promises to the people of Hong Kong."

Hua Chunying, a spokeswoman for China's foreign ministry,  tweeted in reply : "I can't breathe."


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Buzz of the Orient
1  seeder  Buzz of the Orient    one month ago
On May 30, US State Department spokeswoman Morgan Ortagus tweeted criticism  of how Beijing has treated Hong Kong protesters: "Freedom loving people around the world must stand with the rule of law and hold to account the Chinese Communist Party, which has flagrantly broken its promises to the people of Hong Kong."
Hua Chunying, a spokeswoman for China's foreign ministry,  tweeted in reply : "I can't breathe."

Just as Trump leads by setting the example of not wearing a mask, so America also leads, requiring the rest of the world to follow its example. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
1.1  Texan1211  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1    one month ago
Just as Trump leads by setting the example of not wearing a mask, so America also leads, requiring the rest of the world to follow its example. 

Where does America require the rest of the world to do anything like that?

Gee, that sounds like you want to blame the US for what China did.

Shouldn't a country as old as China is be the one to set an example? Why would China need the US to lead them?

 
 
 
Raven Wing
1.2  Raven Wing  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1    4 weeks ago
Just as Trump leads

Nope........Trump has already said he will not lead the Covid-19, nor or anything else other than his re-election efforts. 

Trump refuses to lead a country in crisis

Trump says he won't extend social distancing guidelines 

 
 
 
Texan1211
2  Texan1211    one month ago

Well, we have been told that American exceptionalism will no longer be tolerated, so why would we even bother to say anything about what China does?

Let the rest of the world take the reins and play policeman for a while.

If they are concerned in the least, of course.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
2.1  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Texan1211 @2    one month ago

Yes, as you said....

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Texan1211
2.1.1  Texan1211  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @2.1    one month ago

yep, let Europe block Americans during the pandemic. Makes sense, and I have no problems with it.

But this other stuff--FUCK EUROPE and the rest of the world. They will happily take aid we freely offer and any donations coming from America, and we DID bail out their collective asses twice in world wars, so let THEM deal with some real-world problems now and see how well they do it.

Let some noble country like China take over as the world's policeman for a while if the fucking Europeans can't or, more accurately--won't.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
2.1.2  XDm9mm  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.1    one month ago
Let some noble country like China

That's akin to asking the old Soviet Union to protect freedom around the world.  It's a true oxymoron.

 
 
 
Texan1211
2.1.3  Texan1211  replied to  XDm9mm @2.1.2    one month ago

I know, but the people who always complain how the US does things should be perfectly fine with it, right?

 
 
 
dennis smith
2.2  dennis smith  replied to  Texan1211 @2    one month ago

Spot on Texan

 
 
 
Nerm_L
3  Nerm_L    one month ago

Don't blame what China is doing to Hong Kong on the United States.  Chinese leadership is cracking down on Hong Kong.  The Chinese government is setting its own example.  And history will judge China for what China does; not for what the United States failed do.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
3.1  XDm9mm  replied to  Nerm_L @3    one month ago
And history will judge China for what China does; not for what the United States failed do.

And history will judge China for not abiding to yet another agreement that they made.  This time with Great Britain when they agreed to relinquish control of Hong Kong to China in return for some 'guarantees' for the people of Hong Kong.   Yet more validation that China cannot be trusted for anything other than lying and betrayal.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
3.1.1  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  XDm9mm @3.1    one month ago

Hong Kong may be such a huge concern to the USA that it can't keep its fingers out of the pie, but Hong Kong will no longer be the site of rioting and destruction, and the peace-loving people of Hong Kong will now be able to rebuild what the rioters have destroyed and continue their lives and businesses in peace.  No matter whether America or the UK may wish otherwise, Hong Kong is bound to be a part of mainland China 27 years from now, with Beijing as the capital.  

Was anyone so concerned when America passed its Homeland Securty law?

 
 
 
XDm9mm
3.1.2  XDm9mm  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3.1.1    one month ago
Hong Kong may be such a huge concern to the USA that it can't keep its fingers out of the pie, but Hong Kong will no longer be the site of rioting and destruction, and the peace-loving people of Hong Kong will now be able to rebuild what the rioters have destroyed and continue their lives and businesses in peace. 

Of course the "peace loving" people of Hong Kong will surrender and capitulate to the brutal dictatorship of the dictator Xi Jinping or suffer life imprisonment in a forced labor camp as the better option, the worse option is death.  Not much choice when you're essentially captives in your own country.

No matter whether America or the UK may wish otherwise, Hong Kong is bound to be a part of mainland China 27 years from now, with Beijing as the capital.  

TWENTY SEVEN years from now per the AGREEMENT the Communist Chinese government signed and has now decided to ignore.  So, once again, FUCK COMMUNIST CHINA.  The world sees them for what they are and are rethinking their prior relationships.

Was anyone so concerned when America passed its Homeland Securty law?

What law are you specifically referring to?  The Homeland Security Act of 2002?   Or is there something else the Communist masters of China are suing as propaganda to make their pathetic asses look civilized and the United States of America look bad?

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
3.1.3  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  XDm9mm @3.1.2    one month ago

Speaking as a person who has lived in China for the past 14 years, and I know the vast majority of Chinese people feel no different, your comment is laughable, and would be considered such by anyone who lives here.  The propaganda you believe is SO effective, even on supposedly intelligent people. 

As for my comment, time will tell.  Voltaire's Candide concluded by saying "We must tend to our garden" and maybe that's what America and Americans should be doing - focusing on solving its OWN problems these days, because as I see it, they seem to be a lot worse than those of the Chinese people. 

 
 
 
XDm9mm
3.1.4  XDm9mm  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3.1.3    one month ago
[deleted]

So, I'll say what you can't.

FUCK THE PEOPLES REPUBLIC OF CHINA

AND IT'S MURDEROUS DICTATOR XI JINPING

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
3.1.5  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3.1.3    one month ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
gooseisgone
3.1.6  gooseisgone  replied to  XDm9mm @3.1.4    one month ago

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Buzz of the Orient
3.1.7  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  gooseisgone @3.1.6    one month ago

Trumpsters are disdainful of China's cultural revolution?  And now thay are facing their own. 

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
3.1.8  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Freedom Warrior @3.1.5    one month ago

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
3.1.9  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  XDm9mm @3.1.4    one month ago

Never in my life have I said, nor would I ever say, fuck America.  I have spent a lot of time in America, travelled through and enjoyed a lot of it, even shared ownership with my brother of a Florida golf condo, have had and still have many American friends.  But I damn well WILL say FUCK TRUMP for the many reasons already stated, for all the damage he has done intentionally and negligently.  But then he's just a temporary aberration in your country - and will soon be gone. 

 
 
 
dennis smith
3.1.10  dennis smith  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3.1.9    one month ago

The temporary aberration left office in Jan 2017. As far as China, let them do what they do best. Enforce total control over its citizenry. The world sees it and knows it so trying to deflect from that is useless.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
3.1.11  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  dennis smith @3.1.10    one month ago

Only a person who has never experienced modern China personally would make a statement like that.  I've never been to Alaska, but at least I have the intelligence not to say that the people there kow-tow to their governor.

 
 
 
Ronin2
3.1.12  Ronin2  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3.1.9    one month ago

He didn't say "fuck China"

Reread closely what was written, you will figure it out.

Attacking the brutal Chinese leader and the government underneath him that carries out his orders; is not the same thing as attacking the Chinese people. You seem to think they are interchangeable.

As for Trump, he hurt your wallet. You have blasted him ever since. It has been very well documented.  He called out the Chinese government for failing to disclose how bad Covid 19 was; and failing to contain it. The world is in the situation it is in now thanks to those failures in leadership from the Chinese government; sorry if you are upset the will be repercussions that affect you and the Chinese people further. Maybe taking the Chinese government to task would be the correct response to ensure this doesn't happen again.

But then he's just a temporary aberration in your country - and will soon be gone. 

I am sure the Chinese government is pumping all of the money and resources they can to aide Biden. They have much to gain by him winning. I am sure they will even welcome his unwanted touches, as Biden tries to undo 4 years of tariff/trade wars. No new trade deal that will be more fair to the US. No holding the Chinese government accountable for their deceit and negligence in the spread of Covid 19. Status Quo Joe will gladly sell out the US in exchange from campaign money and backing; and a few hugs that will last too long, and allowing him to caress their shoulders and legs at public events.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
3.1.13  XDm9mm  replied to  Ronin2 @3.1.12    one month ago
Attacking the brutal Chinese leader and the government underneath him that carries out his orders; is not the same thing as attacking the Chinese people. You seem to think they are interchangeable.

Buzz has a problem distinguishing between the two.  Plus, he always takes things personally.   

What's amazing is that he never (and to a point understandable as he lives there and his life would be in great jeopardy) says about Xi Jinping what he so freely says about Donald Trump.  One must surmise that one learns what to say and not say to stay alive.

I would like to ask him, but I know it would never be answered, how many people has President Trump put to death or sentenced to life in prison for disrespecting him like Xi has?

Hell, how many hundred of thousands are currently imprisoned and being 'reeducated' for simply having a religious belief contrary to what is accepted and expected?

What's that I hear?  CRICKETS?????

 
 
 
gooseisgone
3.1.14  gooseisgone  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3.1.7    one month ago

As XDm9mm said, Fuck China. If you think we are going through a revolution, it shows me how little you know. 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
3.1.15  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Ronin2 @3.1.12    one month ago

1.   What he said was "The People's Republic of China"  The People's Republic of China is NOT the government of China, it is NOT the CCP, it is not Xi Zinping, it is the correct name of China just as The United States of America is the correct name for America.  Maybe you should learn your geography.  The People's Republic of China is the name of China, and is synonymous with the word "China", the home of 1.4 billion Chinese people, the country in which I am presently a guest.  Look it up yourself.

2.   I really don't give a shit what you call Xi Jinping. I'm free to call Donald Trump what I think he is as well. 

3.   Even when he hurt my wallet, I still did not leave the right wing side of NT, even posting articles on the right wing groups, but when he started his xenophobic hate rhetoric which not only endangered Chinese Americans but has infected the other people around the world, causing Chinese people being harrassed, even attacked (you can read - the stories are there) and even the right wing members of NT have adopted his "Wuhan virus", "Chinese virus", "Kung flu", and now even "Chinese plague" nomenclature, THAT was the straw that broke this camel's back..  All my life I have been respected and treated well by the Chinese people whether in Canada or in China, AND I AM MARRIED TO A CHINESE WOMAN.  THAT was when I changed sides, not before.  Don't forget, that I have also said that I voted for and supported the Conservative parties of Ontario and Canada for the past 40 years and that has NOT changed.

4.   If you have been so closely following what I've been writing as you indicate, you will also know that I have been critical of the delays and cover-ups that have happened here.  At least I have admitted it.  But I shake my head at those who are Trump supporters who  are living the lie of refusing to admit that Trump's lack of response and negligence was the cause for America to have now more than 3 million cases of the virus and 130,000 deaths,  I have just read that he will withhold funding from schools if they do not open in September - UNBELIEVABLE.  As for the numbers in America, I've said before and I'll say again "You ain't seen nothin' yet."  And you say that China failed to contain the virus?

5.   The Chinese government supporting Biden?  You mean now that Biden is dueling with Trump to see which of them could be tougher on China?  Right now the Chinese government is too astute to waste its money on American politics even if it wanted to.  Economic recovery is needed in China too - and the government will continue to eradicate poverty in China.  A very smart move on its part.  When everyone has a full stomach, a roof over their head, education for their kids and health care, and not only that the opportunity to become wealthy as so many Chinese already have, you are not going to see another Tianenmen Square in mainland China.

You know you're not my enemy, Ronin2.  I just wish you could allow common sense to outrank party loyalty. 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
3.1.16  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  XDm9mm @3.1.13    one month ago

CRICKETS???  If you know I live in China you should be smart enough to know I just woke up, and spent some time replying to Ronin2, but now I'm going to eat my breakfast and will reply to you soon. 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
3.1.17  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  gooseisgone @3.1.14    one month ago

@ gooeisgone

As I said, I would never in my lifetime say "Fuck America" but then I'm an educated and intelligent person. 

From what is happening on the streets of America these days, since the murder of George Floyd, the change of attitude towards America's history, appears to me to be very much a "cultural revolution". 

I really have to stop wasting my time replying to ignorant comments.

 
 
 
Tessylo
3.1.18  Tessylo  replied to  XDm9mm @3.1.4    one month ago

FUCK tRUMP THIS 'PRESIDENT'

AND HIS CRIMINAL ENTERPRISE OF AN ADMINISTRATION

HE HAS HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DEATHS ON HIS HANDS WITH HIS INCOMPETENCE AND IGNORANCE

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
3.1.19  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  XDm9mm @3.1.13    one month ago

Okay, now finished breakfast.

"Attacking the brutal Chinese leader and the government underneath him that carries out his orders; is not the same thing as attacking the Chinese people. You seem to think they are interchangeable."
Buzz has a problem distinguishing between the two.  Plus, he always takes things personally. 

No, as I explained to Ronin2, and I suggest that you read his comments and my reply first, the People's Republic of China is NOT its government, it is the full name of China, just as The United States of America, or America, is not ITS government.  As for taking it personally, if I do so it is because I have all my life been treated with respect by the Chinese people (in Canada as well as here), and comments that insult them insult me as well - I am happily married to a Chinese woman so I'll admit that I'm being defensive, and sorry that these days it seems to have become necessary.

What's amazing is that he never (and to a point understandable as he lives there and his life would be in great jeopardy) says about Xi Jinping what he so freely says about Donald Trump.  One must surmise that one learns what to say and not say to stay alive.

You have not read all my comments then, I certainly HAVE posted comments on NT that were critical of the CCP, especially on its handling of the virus at the beginning, and as for Xi Jinping, he IS the CCP so why isolate him from his government.  Besides, Ieave it to people who don't give a shit about their life or safety to go to foreign countries and refuse to obey their laws.  Now, please show me where you and the rest of your right wing friends have been critical of Trump or do you all believe he can do no wrong? 

I would like to ask him, but I know it would never be answered, how many people has President Trump put to death or sentenced to life in prison for disrespecting him like Xi has?

How could I possibly know the answer to that?  America can be proud, since it does report that it incarcerates the biggest percentage of its population in the world and unbelievably, for a civilized nation, LEGALLY murders its citizens.  

Hell, how many hundred of thousands are currently imprisoned and being 'reeducated' for simply having a religious belief contrary to what is accepted and expected?

No, not for "simply having a religious belief contrary to what is accepted and expected" because then the many Muslims who live peacefully throughout China who attend mosques and practise their religion would also be imprisoned and 'reeducated'. It is because of the Uyghurs specific separatist and terrorist tactics. But now there hasn't been a terrorist attack from them for three years and I have seen the videos of them learning trades and self-sufficiency - quite a change from before (Such videos would never be shown in America, they don't follow the present agenda, unless you are allowed to watch CGTN).  So how many mass shootings and domestic terrorist attacks have there been in the USA during the past 3 years?

What's that I hear?  CRICKETS?????

What a stupid fucking thing to say, especially saying it before you actually posted your comment.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
3.1.20  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Tessylo @3.1.18    one month ago

And as of now, THREE MILLION INFECTIONS, and 130,000 DEATHS, about a quarter in both cases in the whole world of 7 billion people (and you ain't seen nothin' yet).  Well, America always tried to lead the world, to be the best at everything - so there you go, America is succeeding in that at least.

Had the proper measures been taken in January, when it became known to have started in the USA, when Trump was first advised about it, the picture would have been very different.  Did it disappear like magic, Mr. Trump?  Was it a hoax as so many said?  Was the advice from your experts not like a traffic light - green, yellow, red, green, yellow, red, green, yellow, red.....etc etc etc.?

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
3.1.21  Sean Treacy  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3.1.20    one month ago

, , about a quarter in both cases in the whole world of 7 billion people 

How many infections does China have Buzz? 

 
 
 
Tessylo
3.1.22  Tessylo  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3.1.9    one month ago

tRUMP is an abomination.  

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
3.1.23  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Sean Treacy @3.1.21    one month ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
3.1.24  Sean Treacy  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3.1.23    one month ago

I'm asking you.  So how many does China have?  It's a simple question. No need for personal attacks or deflections. Just let us know how many cases China had so we can evaluate your argument. 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
3.1.25  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Tessylo @3.1.22    one month ago

Only a few more months, Tess, only a few more months thank God.  I have faith that the majority of the American people, and the Electoral College, have common sense. 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
3.1.26  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Sean Treacy @3.1.24    one month ago

And I'm telling you to make the same kind of search I did to make the comment I did about America having a quarter of the world's cases and deaths.  If I can do that research, so can you, and if you keep demanding that I do it I will flag you for bullying or taunting and you can revel in the points you get.  You don't need my reply to evaluate my comment.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
3.1.27  Sean Treacy  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3.1.26    one month ago

 You don't need my reply to evaluate my comment.

Sure I do Buzz.  Let's work this out!

You claim to know how many infections there are in the world, while no informed person I know of claims to have that knowledge.  One of the many reasons no one claims to have that knowledge is because no one knows how many infections  China actually has.  You seem to be the only person in the world who believes China's reported numbers, since you are telling me to look it up on those sites that catalog whatever numbers governments' announce. 

[deleted]

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
3.1.28  Sean Treacy  replied to  Sean Treacy @3.1.27    one month ago

Well I see pointing  out the weakness of an argument is now “taunting.”   If you can’t debate, censor. 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
3.1.29  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Sean Treacy @3.1.27    one month ago

As I said, you can get the information exactly the same way I did.  I used the internet. I got the world numbers. That's how I "claimed" to post the numbers I did. China's numbers are easily obtained on the internet, so you can damn well do that yourself and get whatever information you are looking for.  I don't need to bend to your demands in order to give you what you probably seek for ammunition to attack me.   As I said before, your continuing with this would be flagged as taunting or bullying, and as you can see that is exactly what you did so enjoy the consequences.  Note that I will flag your comments again if you keep taunting me.

Oh, and by the way, I have posted at least 3 or 4 times on NT why I think the China numbers are not so far off, and I don't intend to waste my time posting that again to satisfy someone who has probably already seen it, has already taunted me and I'm sure is trying to find ways to continue doing so. 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
3.1.30  Sean Treacy  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3.1.29    one month ago

[deleted]

I can’t believe I have to say this in July, after the virus has  been circulating for months, but the numbers reported by governments do not reflect the actual number of infections.  Some countries like Mexico don’t test, they have no idea how many cases there are.  And some countries, like Iran, China and Russia, simply lie. 

no one knows how many infections there are, so to claim that any country has   X percent is either dishonest or ignorant.

 
 
 
dennis smith
3.1.31  dennis smith  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3.1.11    one month ago

It is you Buzz who has said you have media restrictions imposed by the government of where you choose to live and have to seek outside news sources because of government censorship there. 

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
3.1.32  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  dennis smith @3.1.31    one month ago

Not THAT restricted, dennis.  I watch and read the news on MAJOR  mainstream web sites from all over the world, from America, Canada, England, Australia and Israel - and for a laugh, I can even watch/read Fox News.  So tell me, can you watch the CGTN (China Global Television Network) or is it censored in America?  I know it is broadcast around the world and has offices in Washington, D.C.  If it is censored in America, it would be because Americans should not be permitted to see the OTHER side of the story.  (I really do miss the late Paul Harvey and The Rest of the Story.)  Although I don't have Facebook, Twitter and Instagram - who really needs it?  Instead of Google, there is no problem doing my research on Bing, Ecosia, Baidu and other Chinese English language sites.  Alternatives are just as good, dennis.  I really don't like hominy grits anyway - so "Chacun a son gout."

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
3.1.33  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3.1.3    one month ago

Yep, and we'll take back the funding in aid we provide to many countries in Europe and other parts of the world. Then we'll see how them apples are liked and how long it lasts. That's a lot of U.S. dollars that are better spent at home!

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
3.1.34  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @3.1.33    one month ago

Yeah, it's a drag when you have to BUY respect, isn't it. 

 
 
 
dennis smith
3.1.35  dennis smith  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3.1.32    one month ago

Do you have the freedoms that we have in America?

 
 
 
dennis smith
3.1.36  dennis smith  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3.1.32    one month ago

Do you have the freedoms that we have in America?

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
3.1.37  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  dennis smith @3.1.35    one month ago

Which question do you want me to answer?

 
 
 
dennis smith
3.1.38  dennis smith  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3.1.37    one month ago

Do you always answer a question with a question?

Mistakenly posted twice. Answer either one.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
3.1.39  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  dennis smith @3.1.38    one month ago

It's a cultural thing to answer a question with a question.  

That is an impossible question for me to answer with the kind of answer you are seeking, because I don't know what all the freedoms in America are, and all of what are not freedoms there, nor do I know the extent of both of those things here, but what I can tell you is that I have all the freedoms I need and want to live a comfortable and happy life here, save only that it would be convenient to have access to YouTube, since I love to watch movies and music videos.  There are alternatives here, such as Tudou, Youku, Bilibili, but they don't have the huge variety that YouTube has.  I do get to see a lot of movies though on cable TV because we have about eight 24/7 movie channels that show foreign movies (mostly English language ones) on our 4.5 foot flat screen.  Actually, there are so many other advantages that I have here that I would not have in America or Canada that I can put up with not having access to YouTube.

I know that is probably not the answer you wanted, but it is all I have the knowledge to give.  

 
 
 
dennis smith
3.1.40  dennis smith  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3.1.39    4 weeks ago

Thank you Buzz

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
3.1.41  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  dennis smith @3.1.40    4 weeks ago

And thank you for being courteous. 

 
 
 
gooseisgone
3.1.42  gooseisgone  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3.1.20    4 weeks ago
Had the proper measures been taken in January, when it became known to have started in the USA, when Trump was first advised about it

Please provide the link to the person "IN JANUARY" that was giving the proper measures regarding the coronavirus. 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
3.1.43  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  gooseisgone @3.1.42    4 weeks ago

I never said "a person" was giving the proper measures.  Where the hell did you get that idea?

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
3.1.44  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  gooseisgone @3.1.42    4 weeks ago

I never said "a person" was giving the proper measures.  Where the hell did you get that idea?

 
 
 
gooseisgone
3.1.45  gooseisgone  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3.1.20    4 weeks ago

Still waiting Buzz for the person with the proper measures, what's wrong can't seem to find this imaginary person.  . 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
3.1.46  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  gooseisgone @3.1.45    4 weeks ago

I'll NOT BOTHER waiting for you to comprehend what I told you. 

 
 
 
Raven Wing
3.1.47  Raven Wing  replied to  Sean Treacy @3.1.28    4 weeks ago
Well I see pointing  out the weakness of an argument is now “taunting.”   If you can’t debate, censor

Why try to blame Buzz for the moderation of your own words. YOU wrote them, Perrie moderated them. Why blame Buzz. And if you don't like being moderated, don't write words that will cause that to happen.

Your words, your fault. No one to blame here but yourself. 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
3.1.48  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Raven Wing @3.1.47    4 weeks ago

Thanks, but not to worry RW.  It's their goal to taunt me and in reply it's my pleasure to cause them to earn CoC points.  It's a benefit for NT to have a rest from them for a couple of days now and then.

 
 
 
Raven Wing
3.1.49  Raven Wing  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3.1.48    4 weeks ago

I understand your feelings, Buzz.  However, it's one thing for Trump to pay people to be his scapegoats, but. no one gets paid here on NT to be anyone else's scapegoat because they can't stand to be wrong and must use someone else to be their scapegoat.

This is not the WH. And no one here at NT has to be made a scapegoat for anyone else. 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
3.1.50  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Raven Wing @3.1.49    4 weeks ago

Well, their credibility is already shot, because not one of them is willing to admit that their dear leader has made even one little mistake, even when asked to do so.  Although they continually goad me to do so as if I endanger my life if I am critical of Xi Jinping, even though I have already posted criticisms of him and his CCP government over and over on NT, which they continually ignore, and which really is none of my business anyway because I'm not a Chinese citizen - Justin Trudeau is my leader, my Prime Minister, and I have SOUNDLY criticized him for a few things, not the least of which was voting with the Arab countries at the UN to damn Israel - no other Canadian leader has ever done that.  

 
 
 
Raven Wing
3.1.51  Raven Wing  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3.1.50    4 weeks ago

Stand your ground. They may find the ground under their own feet will prove how wrong they are. (grin)

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
3.1.52  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Raven Wing @3.1.51    4 weeks ago

They think they're standing their ground, but they're standing on quicksand - slowly sinking, refusing to recognize it. 

 
 
 
gooseisgone
3.1.53  gooseisgone  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3.1.43    4 weeks ago
I never said "a person" was giving the proper measures.  Where the hell did you get that idea?

I got that from YOU (3.1.20)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Had the proper measures been taken in January, when it became known to have started in the USA, when Trump was first advised about it, the picture would have been very different.

If you are claiming the President didn't take the proper measures, then obviously you being the intelligent person you claim know of the proper measures, so please tell me.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
3.1.54  seeder  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  gooseisgone @3.1.53    4 weeks ago

LOL. AGAIN!!!  AND FULL CAPS SO IT'S EASIER FOR YOU TO READ, AND IF THAT MEANS I'M SHOUTING, OBVIOUSLY SHOUTING IS NECESSARY.

I NEVER REFERRED TO "A PERSON", I SAID IF PROPER MEASURES HAD BEEN TAKEN BY YOUR LORD AND MASTER, THINGS WOULD HAVE BEEN VERY DIFFERENT.  IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT "PROPER MEASURES' FOR DEALING WITH THE VIRUS COULD BE, I SUGGEST YOU LEARN WHAT THEY ARE IN ORDER TO PRESERVE YOUR OWN HEALTH AND LIFE. 

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
6  Paula Bartholomew    one month ago

How is the US supposed to lead when its leader is a pos?

 
 
 
Raven Wing
6.1  Raven Wing  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @6    4 weeks ago
How is the US supposed to lead when its leader is a pos?

Totally agree. The only thing he is fit to lead is unloading the garbage trucks at the dump. And that is only if they are running short of help.

 
 
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