Donald Trump Has At Least $1 Billion In Debt, More Than Twice The Amount He Suggested

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  jbb  •  5 days ago  •  74 comments

By:   Dan Alexander (Forbes)

Donald Trump Has At Least $1 Billion In Debt, More Than Twice The Amount He Suggested
The president's liabilities are spelled out in dozens of documents, published here.

This is the story motivating Trump's Hunter Biden hail mary collaboration with Russian Intelligence...


S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



President Trump departs the White House en route to North Carolina.

Sarah Silbiger/Getty Images

The president's liabilities are spelled out in dozens of documents, published here.


No aspect of Donald Trump's business has been the subject of more speculation than his debt load. Lots of people believe the president owes $400 million, especially after Trump seemed to agree with that figure on national television Thursday night. In reality, however, he owes more than $1 billion.

The loans are spread out over more than a dozen different assets—hotels, buildings, mansions and golf courses. Most are listed on the financial disclosure report Trump files annually with the federal government. Two, which add up to an estimated $447 million, are not.

It is important to note, as Trump did Thursday night, that he also has significant assets. Forbes values them at $3.66 billion, enough to make his net worth an estimated $2.5 billion. He is not broke, despite what many critics claim.

Some people also like to suggest that Deutsche Bank is the only institution willing to lend to Trump. That's not true. The president's creditors include at least six other institutions, two of which began or reworked deals while the president was in office.

One reason for all the confusion: Trump's loans are not fully transparent. It's still unclear to whom he owes an estimated $162 million against his skyscraper in San Francisco, for example. The loan against 1290 Avenue of the Americas is also something of a mystery. And it's difficult to pin down the amount the president owes on a loan tied to his Bedford, New York, mansion. When asked about all of this, the Trump Organization did not respond.

Here's what we know—and don't know—about the president's debt.

1290 Avenue of the Americas



What Trump owes: $285 million



Who is the creditor: Unclear (see below)



When it's due: November 2022



Interest rate: 3.34%


The documents:


Donald Trump owns a 30% interest in 1290 Avenue of the Americas, which might explain why he does not list its debt on the financial disclosure report he files annually with federal ethics officials. Trump's share of the debt on the building appears to be the largest liability in his entire portfolio. In 2012, he and his business partner, Vornado Realty Trust, got a $950 million loan from four financial institutions: Deutsche Bank, UBS, Goldman Sachs and the state-owned Bank of China. It is not clear exactly who holds the debt today. The Bank of China told Politico that it had sold off its portion of the loan.

Trump International Hotel Washington, D.C.



What Trump owes: Est. $170 million



Who is the creditor: Deutsche Bank



When it's due: Sometime in 2024



Interest rate: Variable


The documents:


Trump funded his redevelopment of the Old Post Office building in Washington, D.C., which now serves as the Trump International Hotel, with a $170 million mortgage from Deutsche Bank. It's possible that Trump does not still owe all of that money today—the New York Times, which has access to Trump's tax-return data, recently reported that the loan has a balance of $160 million. Regardless of the exact amount of principal outstanding, it doesn't appear that the hotel is doing well enough to cover the interest expenses with profits from the business.

555 California Street



What Trump owes: Est. $162 million



Who is the creditor: Unclear (see below)



When it's due: September 2021



Interest rate: 5.1%


The document:


Trump also owns a 30% stake alongside Vornado in 555 California Street, a skyscraper in downtown San Francisco. The partners have been paying down the loan, but they might make changes to it soon. In June, Vornado announced that it was considering whether to recapitalize 555 California Street and 1290 Avenue of the Americas. Any transaction involving those two buildings could have a huge effect on Trump's business, given that his stakes in the two properties are his most valuable assets.

40 Wall Street



What Trump owes: $138 million



Who is the creditor: Ladder Capital



When it's due: July 6, 2025



Interest rate: 3.665%


The documents:


Weeks after announcing his initial presidential run, Trump refinanced his skyscraper in downtown Manhattan, borrowing $160 million. He has been paying down the debt ever since, but he still owes $138 million, according to documents filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

Trump National Doral



What Trump owes: Est. $125 million



Who is the creditor: Deutsche Bank



When it's due: Sometime in 2023



Interest rate: Variable


The documents:


Trump got a $106 million mortgage against his Miami golf resort from Deutsche Bank in 2012, at the time that he purchased the property. In August 2015, shortly after Trump launched his presidential bid, he got a second loan against Doral, this time for $19 million. It's possible that his debt on the property is now more than the $125 million combined value of the mortgages. The New York Times reported last month that Trump's balance totals $148 million.

Trump Tower



What Trump owes: $100 million



Who is the creditor: Ladder Capital



When it's due: September 6, 2022



Interest rate: 4.2%


The documents:


Trump took out a $100 million, interest-only loan against his signature Fifth Avenue tower in 2012. The property kicked off $13.3 million of net operating income in 2019, more than enough to cover the roughly $4.2 million Trump owes in annual interest expenses. Paying back the $100 million principal, due in two years, could be more complicated.

Trump International Hotel & Tower (Chicago)



What Trump owes: More than $75 million



Who are the creditors: Deutsche Bank, Chicago Unit Acquisition LLC



When it's due: 2024 for part of it, unclear for the rest



Interest rate: Variable


The document:


The debt against Trump's Chicago tower includes the most confounding liability in his portfolio. In addition to a Deutsche Bank loan for what seems to be $45 million, there's a loan of more than $50 million, from a creditor named Chicago Unit Acquisition LLC. Here's where things gets confusing: Donald Trump owns Chicago Unit Acquisition LLC, so he's lending money to himself. If one of his companies owes more than $50 million to another one of his companies, then the company lending the money should theoretically be worth more than $50 million. But Trump does not list any value for Chicago Unit Acquisition LLC on his financial disclosure report. All of this has befuddled investigative reporters from Mother Jones, the Washington Post and, yes, Forbes for years.

Trump Plaza



What Trump owes: $13 million



Who is the creditor: Ladder Capital



When it's due: July 6, 2024



Interest rate: 3.85%


The documents:


Through a company called Trump Plaza LLC, the president controls two brownstone apartment buildings, a garage and a strip of retail shops on Third Avenue in New York City. From 2017 to 2019, one of the tenants paying rent to Trump Plaza LLC was Trump's 2020 reelection campaign.

Palm Beach, Fla. home



What Trump owes: Est. $11 million



Who is the creditor: Professional Bank



When it's due: June 1, 2048



Interest rate: 4.5%


The documents:


Trump took out a 30-year, $11.2 million mortgage from Professional Bank on May 16, 2018, the day he purchased an $18.5 million home near Mar-a-Lago from his sister Maryanne Trump Barry.

Trump National Golf Club, Colts Neck



What Trump owes: Est. $11 million



Who is the creditor: Amboy Bank



When it's due: Sometime in 2028



Interest rate: 5.25%


The documents:


Trump purchased a golf club in Colts Neck, New Jersey, for $28 million in 2008, borrowing $18 million from a local institution called Amboy Bank. In 2019, the club produced just $7.6 million of revenue, suggesting it's now worth about half of what Trump paid for it. Forbes estimates he still owes roughly $11 million on the property.

Trump Park Avenue



What Trump owes: Est. $10 million



Who is the creditor: Investors Savings Bank



When it's due: Sometime in 2020



Interest rate: 3.25%


The documents:


The president's financial disclosure report, which discloses assets and liabilities in broad ranges, lists the loan against Trump Park Avenue at $5 million to $25 million. Patrick Birney, who works in financial operations at the Trump Organization, said in February 2019 that the balance was just under $10 million. It's possible that the principal is lower today.

Trump National Golf Club, Washington, D.C.



What Trump owes: Est. $7 million



Who is the creditor: Chevy Chase Trust Holdings



When it's due: Sometime in 2029



Interest rate: 5.5%


The documents:


Trump took out a $10 million loan in 2009, when he bought a golf course near his future home for $13 million. Forbes estimates its principal outstanding is now more like $7 million. With a 5.5% interest rate, it's one of Trump's priciest loans.

Trump International Hotel & Tower (NYC)



What Trump owes: $6 million



Who is the creditor: Ladder Capital



When it's due: August 6, 2026



Interest rate: 4.05%


The documents:


Five months before he was elected president, Donald Trump refinanced the debt against this tower on the corner of New York City's Central Park.

Seven Springs



What Trump owes: $5-25 million



Who is the creditor: The Bryn Mawr Trust Company



When it's due: Sometime in 2029



Interest rate: 4.5%


The document:


At some point last year, while the president was in office, the Trump Organization reworked the loan against his New York estate. The maturity date moved from 2019 to 2029, and the interest rate jumped from 4% to 4.5%. It's unclear exactly how much the president still owes on the loan.

Follow me on Twitter or LinkedIn. Check out some of my other work here. Send me a secure tip.Dan Alexander

I am a senior editor at Forbes, as well as the author of White House, Inc.: How Donald Trump Turned the Presidency into a Business, released Sept. 22, 2020. I write about

…Read More

I am a senior editor at Forbes, as well as the author of White House, Inc.: How Donald Trump Turned the Presidency into a Business, released Sept. 22, 2020. I write about money in politics, with an emphasis on the businesses of Donald Trump and the people around him.

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JBB
1  seeder  JBB    5 days ago

No wonder Trump is desperately trying to distract us!

 
 
 
Tacos!
1.1  Tacos!  replied to  JBB @1    5 days ago
Too bad there aren't debtor's prisons any more.

Why would he need to distract us from knowledge of perfectly ordinary and legal debt? 

 
 
 
JBB
1.1.1  seeder  JBB  replied to  Tacos! @1.1    5 days ago

There is nothing ordinary about a billion in debt!

 
 
 
Tacos!
1.1.2  Tacos!  replied to  JBB @1.1.1    5 days ago
There is nothing ordinary about a billion in debt!

For someone like him, it probably is.

You understand that he owns skyscrapers, hotels, and golf courses, right? The Trump Organization is said to own some 500 businesses. Think about the mortgage on a home. Now extrapolate that to several tall buildings and some resorts. It would probably be weird if he didn't have several hundred million dollars in debt.

 
 
 
Tacos!
1.1.3  Tacos!  replied to  JBB @1.1.1    5 days ago

People and companies that make a lot of money also spend a lot of money. So they have a lot of debt.

Apple has over $109 Billion in total debt.

Walmart has over $58 Billion in total debt.

Amazon's debt is over $24 Billion.

Tesla has $13 Billion in debt. (And they get massive government subsidies)

So regular people might gape in horror at Trump's debt, but the rest of the corporate world is like "Hold my beer!"

 
 
 
SteevieGee
1.1.4  SteevieGee  replied to  Tacos! @1.1.3    4 days ago

Those companies don't control America's foreign policy.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
1.1.5  Bob Nelson  replied to  Tacos! @1.1.3    4 days ago

All the corporations you cite have (very) healthy balance sheets. Trump is at best on a razor's edge and perhaps in virtual bankruptcy.

Yeeeesh! 

 
 
 
Tacos!
1.1.6  Tacos!  replied to  SteevieGee @1.1.4    4 days ago
Those companies don't control America's foreign policy.

Don't they, though?

 
 
 
Tacos!
1.1.7  Tacos!  replied to  Bob Nelson @1.1.5    4 days ago
All the corporations you cite have (very) healthy balance sheets.

So what I hear you saying is that context matters. I agree.

Trump is at best on a razor's edge and perhaps in virtual bankruptcy.

That sounds invented. "at best?" "perhaps?" "virtual?" That's a lot of vague qualifiers, without backing evidence, to justify alarm.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
1.1.8  Bob Nelson  replied to  Tacos! @1.1.7    4 days ago

I would be glad to be more precise, but Trump has done everything possible to make his finances opaque. Refused to publish his tax returns, for example... jrSmiley_82_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
JohnRussell
2  JohnRussell    5 days ago

He's a crook. 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
3  Buzz of the Orient    5 days ago

Too bad there aren't debtor's prisons any more.

 
 
 
Raven Wing
3.1  Raven Wing  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3    5 days ago

That's likely why Trump said that he would likely have to leave the country if Biden wins, as he knows he would be facing a lot of jail time if he is no longer the President. And that is why he is so desperate to win the election that he has a legion of lawyers on hand to try and prove the election is a fraud.

And BTW, who is going to pay for all those thousands of lawyers Trump says he has waiting to void the election, which means he will not accept the results of the election and will not leave the WH unless he wins.

 
 
 
Tacos!
3.2  Tacos!  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3    5 days ago
Too bad there aren't debtor's prisons any more.

Why is that too bad? 

Do you have some information that he isn't paying his debts?

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
3.2.1  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Tacos! @3.2    5 days ago

Actually you DON'T have debtor's prisons, you have Sec.11 and other bankruptcy proceedings instead.  However, if the debts are secured against his hotels, buildings, and other assets I can understand why he would have to maintain payment on the debts, or lose what he owns. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
3.2.2  Tacos!  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3.2.1    5 days ago
Actually you DON'T have debtor's prisons

Yes I know. You said that was too bad, which I still don't understand. Were you being ironic?

he would have to maintain payment on the debts, or lose what he owns. 

Exactly. He keeps his properties, which means he is managing his debt - i.e. paying it. Strangely, some people are bothered by it. Frankly, I don't think they know why. I hate to use the cliché, but it seems like another mindless "orange man bad" story.

 
 
 
Tacos!
3.2.4  Tacos!  replied to  Ozzwald @3.2.3    3 days ago

Sure, businesses declare bankruptcy all the time. My point is Trump still owns his buildings, golf courses, and so on, so he seems to be doing ok for himself vis a vis his debts.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
3.2.5  Bob Nelson  replied to  Tacos! @3.2.4    3 days ago

A person whose debts are greater than their assets is not "doing ok". 

 
 
 
Tacos!
3.2.6  Tacos!  replied to  Bob Nelson @3.2.5    3 days ago

You might want to think about that. Many many many many people owe more on their house, car or business than those things are worth at the moment. That is true of anyone who gets a loan.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
3.2.7  Bob Nelson  replied to  Tacos! @3.2.6    3 days ago

They can manage the situation because they have a stable revenue stream.

 
 
 
Tessylo
3.2.8  Tessylo  replied to  Tacos! @3.2.6    3 days ago

What's to think about that?  The 'president' isn't a billionaire, he never was, he's in debt to the tune of 1 billion dollars.  He's indebted to the Russians and god only knows who else.  He's worthless in more ways than one.  

His debts are coming due . . . no wonder the 'president' is becoming increasingly unhinged about the thought of losing the election and no wonder he's putting up all the road blocks to everyone voting.  

 
 
 
Tacos!
3.2.9  Tacos!  replied to  Bob Nelson @3.2.7    3 days ago

Clearly Trump's businesses generate some kind of revenue - enough that he keeps getting loans.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
3.2.10  Bob Nelson  replied to  Tacos! @3.2.9    3 days ago

That's one explanation. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
3.2.11  Tessylo  replied to  Tacos! @3.2.9    3 days ago

"enough that he keeps getting loans"

Not anymore.  No one else will loan the 'president' any more money.  

 
 
 
Ozzwald
3.2.12  Ozzwald  replied to  Tacos! @3.2.9    3 days ago
Clearly Trump's businesses generate some kind of revenue - enough that he keeps getting loans.

He is down to 1 single bank to get loans from.  If he loses the election, Putin will cut off that bank.

BANKS REFUSE TO LEND TO TRUMP, CITING “THE DONALD RISK”

American banks don't support Trump — voters soon won't either

Trump Deutsche Bank Loans Underwritten By Russian State-Owned Bank, Whistleblower Told FBI

 
 
 
Tacos!
3.2.13  Tacos!  replied to  Ozzwald @3.2.12    3 days ago

Donald Trump has had no trouble getting big loans at competitive rates

The idea that banks won’t lend to Trump because of his bankruptcy history is the equivalent of fake news: MarketWatch analysis

Contrary to countless reports portraying President Donald Trump’s relationship with banks as toxic, a new MarketWatch analysis shows Trump has virtually no trouble getting loans on good terms these days. Big banks like Barclays BCS, also welcome Trump’s money in brokerage accounts and one of the biggest, J.P. Morgan Chase JPM,  , oversees his family trusts, according to a recent presidential disclosure.

Also, check this out:

Trump signed  his first financial-disclosure form   as president on Flag Day, June 14 — also Trump’s birthday. The 98-page document shows assets of at least $1.4 billion and income of almost $600 million for the 2016 calendar year and into the early stages of 2017. Trump reported that he owes at least $310 million to banks and financial-services firms, including at least $130 million to Deutsche Bank.

So the fact that Trump has hundreds of millions of dollars in debt is not only old news, he wasn't even keeping it a secret.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
3.2.14  Ozzwald  replied to  Tacos! @3.2.13    3 days ago
he wasn't even keeping it a secret.

jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

Then where are his tax returns?

 
 
 
Tacos!
3.2.15  Tacos!  replied to  Ozzwald @3.2.14    3 days ago

If you read and understood my previous post, you would know that this information is well known via the financial disclosure forms he filed. You don't need his tax returns for that information.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
3.2.16  Ozzwald  replied to  Tacos! @3.2.15    3 days ago
You don't need his tax returns for that information.

s3-news-tmp-123315-bullshit--default--820.jpg

 
 
 
Tacos!
3.2.17  Tacos!  replied to  Ozzwald @3.2.16    3 days ago

Then maybe you can explain how we came by all this information four years ago without them, hmmm?

 
 
 
cjcold
3.3  cjcold  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3    5 days ago

Be careful what you wish for.

 
 
 
Tacos!
4  Tacos!    5 days ago

This is shocking! Who would have guessed that Trump was in the real estate business?

 
 
 
JBB
4.1  seeder  JBB  replied to  Tacos! @4    5 days ago

Shocking is everything he owns is worth half that...

 
 
 
cjcold
4.2  cjcold  replied to  Tacos! @4    4 days ago

Considering that Trump has run every business he's ever owned into the ground, why is he president?

 
 
 
Tacos!
4.2.1  Tacos!  replied to  cjcold @4.2    4 days ago
Considering that Trump has run every business he's ever owned into the ground

That's obviously not true.

why is he president?

Enough people in the right places thought he was better than the alternative. Presidents are not elected after comparing them to all of humanity. They are compared to one person. It's really not a very high bar when you think about it.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
4.2.2  Ozzwald  replied to  Tacos! @4.2.1    4 days ago
Enough people in the right places thought he was better than the alternative.

215,000 of those people's relatives are regretting their choice.

 
 
 
Tacos!
4.2.3  Tacos!  replied to  Ozzwald @4.2.2    4 days ago
215,000 of those people's relatives are regretting their choice.

Are they? I don't think I heard anyone saying Hillary should run again.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
4.2.4  Ozzwald  replied to  Tacos! @4.2.3    3 days ago
Are they? I don't think I heard anyone saying Hillary should run again.

Your comment is nonsensical.

 
 
 
Tacos!
4.2.5  Tacos!  replied to  Ozzwald @4.2.4    3 days ago

Which part was unclear? I have been talking about the 2016 election if that helps.

 
 
 
Tessylo
4.2.6  Tessylo  replied to  Tacos! @4.2.5    3 days ago

But we're talking about the 2020 election, if that helps.  

 
 
 
JBB
4.2.7  seeder  JBB  replied to  Tacos! @4.2.1    3 days ago

Is it obvious? Clear as mud? Prove it!

 
 
 
Tacos!
4.2.8  Tacos!  replied to  Tessylo @4.2.6    3 days ago
But we're talking about the 2020 election, if that helps. 

I don't know who the "we" is that has been talking about the 2020 election. I responded to the question "why is he president?" in @4.2. The answer is that we had an election in 2016. That election was a choice between Trump and Hillary Clinton. Trump won the election. 

Then it was suggested that people might regret that choice. Logically, that says to me they would want Hillary to be president now. Clearly they don't, so they don't really regret the choice. Biden is clearly seen as being a better choice than either one of them.

I wonder if Hillary will accuse voters of misogyny for that.

 
 
 
Tessylo
4.2.9  Tessylo  replied to  Tacos! @4.2.8    3 days ago

Whatever . . . 

 
 
 
Tessylo
4.2.10  Tessylo  replied to  Tacos! @4.2.1    3 days ago

No, it's obviously true.  

 
 
 
JBB
4.2.11  seeder  JBB  replied to  Tacos! @4.2.8    3 days ago

Mrs Clinton hasn't held public office for 8 years. 

What she thinks is not irrelevant to this election, to Trump versus Biden...

 
 
 
Tacos!
4.2.12  Tacos!  replied to  JBB @4.2.7    3 days ago

You're right. I was mistaken. He actually lives under the freeway overpass, owns nothing, and just pretends to be rich. Incredibly, millions of people, along with real businesses, banks, and governments buy into his charade. It's amazing, isn't it. Totally broke guy somehow masquerading as a rich businessman. Whodathunkit?

/s

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
4.2.13  Trout Giggles  replied to  Tacos! @4.2.12    3 days ago

that was funny

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
4.2.14  Trout Giggles  replied to  Tacos! @4.2.1    3 days ago

You said a mouthful. Our choices in 2016 were pathetic

 
 
 
Tacos!
4.2.15  Tacos!  replied to  Trout Giggles @4.2.14    3 days ago
Our choices in 2016 were pathetic

It seems to me that there are people in the world who would be genuinely good at the job but choose not to submit themselves to the horror of it all. So many people who actually seek the job are the kind of person you'd never want to turn your back on or don't have the first clue how to do the job well.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
4.2.16  Trout Giggles  replied to  Tacos! @4.2.15    3 days ago

Yup. We need a national lottery and force people to run for POTUS

I'm only slightly kidding

 
 
 
Tessylo
4.2.17  Tessylo  replied to  Trout Giggles @4.2.16    3 days ago

Hey TG, weren't you speaking of Henry VIII before you went on vacay?

117296351_10217343681559806_2457630481737705857_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=DLxVjkivId0AX94tAE2&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=be5b1462352546b7994d8d0e99ad02a0&oe=5FB4505D

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
4.2.18  Trout Giggles  replied to  Tessylo @4.2.17    3 days ago

I believe I was. And this does describe trmp. Except for the second son part (he's the oldest son, isn't he?)

 
 
 
JBB
4.2.19  seeder  JBB  replied to  Trout Giggles @4.2.18    3 days ago

Fred Jr was the oldest son, butt Fred is...dead.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Trump_Jr.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
4.2.20  Trout Giggles  replied to  JBB @4.2.19    3 days ago

I stand corrected. For some dumb reason I was thinking Donald Trmp, Sr, was the Jr....never mind!

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
5  Bob Nelson    5 days ago

Obviously, no creditor is going to foreclose on a sitting President. What happens after the election? 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
5.1  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Bob Nelson @5    5 days ago

I'm worried about what revengeful things he's going to do during his lame duck period, but I'm looking forward to the lawfuits and criminal charges waiting for him.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
5.1.1  Bob Nelson  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @5.1    4 days ago

It could be a hell of a roller-coaster ride. 

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
6  Paula Bartholomew    4 days ago

Chevy Chase Trust Holdings

He should stick to comedy.  Loaning a con man money is not working out.😎

 
 
 
cjcold
6.1  cjcold  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @6    4 days ago

Knock...Knock...Knock... 

Who is it?

Candy Gram.

Damn land sharks!

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
6.1.1  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  cjcold @6.1    4 days ago

Those were my favorite bits.

 
 
 
bbl-1
7  bbl-1    4 days ago

Trump is broke arse.  Been living on 'the float' for at least two decades.  Most if not all of 'the float' from foreign sources.  Trump has taken Bernie Madoff Ponzi schemes to levels never before seen in finance----with the exception of what Vladimir Putin has been able to pull off against the Russian people.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
7.1  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  bbl-1 @7    3 days ago

I am betting that he has been laying away stolen tax payer dollars in untraceable off shore accounts.

 
 
 
bbl-1
7.1.1  bbl-1  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @7.1    3 days ago

No.  I think he's 'broke arse'.  What ever he allegedly 'squirrelled' away has had liens on them for decades by the Russian oligarchs.  And these guys get their pound of flesh one way or another.  They don't care.  Trump has played dangerous games with dangerous people.  He is a fool.

 
 
 
Texan1211
7.1.2  Texan1211  replied to  bbl-1 @7.1.1    3 days ago
What ever he allegedly 'squirrelled' away has had liens on them for decades by the Russian oligarchs. 

Okay, which oligarchs, and which properties?

 
 
 
Texan1211
7.1.3  Texan1211  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @7.1    3 days ago

You are willing to lose money on something you have ZERO proof of?

 
 
 
bbl-1
7.1.4  bbl-1  replied to  Texan1211 @7.1.2    3 days ago

I need another victory.  SCREW YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 
 
 
Texan1211
7.1.5  Texan1211  replied to  bbl-1 @7.1.4    3 days ago
I need another victory.  SCREW YOU!

I guess that is as good an answer as any when you just can't prove what you claim.

Which oligarchs, which properties again?

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
7.1.6  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  bbl-1 @7.1.1    3 days ago

He is hiding the money from anyone he owes.

 
 
 
MrFrost
8  MrFrost    4 days ago

512

 
 
 
JBB
8.1  seeder  JBB  replied to  MrFrost @8    3 days ago

256

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
9  Hal A. Lujah    3 days ago

I just saw a clip of Trump speaking at one of his super spreaders, and he was opining about what to do if he loses to the worst politician on the planet (gag), and he suggested that he might have to leave the country.  I believe Jim Carey actually predicted that Trump will schedule a good will trip to Russia during the last weeks of his presidency, and not come back.  I see this as a very real possibility.  Trump is pretty infamous for telling us his intentions in plain English.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
9.1  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @9    3 days ago

It is not leaving the country.  It is fleeing prosecution.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
10  Thrawn 31    3 days ago

So he is twice as bad at business than I thought? lol

 
 
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