Here's what happened when Rudolph Giuliani made his first appearance in federal court in nearly three decades

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  sister-mary-agnes-ample-bottom  •  one week ago  •  34 comments

By:   Jon Swaine, Aaron Schaffer (MSN)

Here's what happened when Rudolph Giuliani made his first appearance in federal court in nearly three decades
The former U.S. attorney came under heavy criticism from opposing counsel and appeared unable to answer several questions from the judge about legal technicalities.

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



It was Rudolph W. Giuliani's first appearance in federal court since the early 1990s, and by late afternoon Tuesday, it was clear that U.S. District Judge Matthew W. Brann was losing patience with President Trump's personal attorney.

Trump is seeking to stop the certification of Pennsylvania's vote in the Nov. 3 election, alleging that Republican voters in the state were illegally disadvantaged because some Democratic-leaning counties allowed voters to fix errors on their mail ballots. Two voters named as co-plaintiffs with Trump's campaign in the long-shot lawsuit had their ballots voided and allege that they were not given a chance to correct their mistakes.

"You're alleging that the two individual plaintiffs were denied the right to vote," Brann said. "But at bottom, you're asking this court to invalidate more than 6.8 million votes, thereby disenfranchising every single voter in the commonwealth. Can you tell me how this result can possibly be justified?"

In response, Giuliani said that Trump's campaign was seeking only to throw out about 680,000 ballots cast in Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, because, he said, Republican observers were not allowed to watch them being counted.

But Trump's attorneys had removed legal claims relating to that issue in an amended version of the lawsuit they filed over the weekend, the judge reminded him.

"The poll-watching claims were deleted," Brann told Giuliani. "They're now not before this court, so why should I consider them now?"

Giuliani — who in the days before the hearing had falsely denied that the claims were deleted — was forced to acknowledge that they had been. He said that the campaign would file a third version of its lawsuit restoring the allegations.

Throughout the five-hour hearing in federal court in Williamsport, Pa., Giuliani — a former U.S. attorney and mayor of New York — came under heavy criticism from opposing counsel and appeared unable to answer several questions from Brann about legal technicalities.

Brann asked what standard of review he should apply in the case. "I think the normal one," Giuliani replied.

"Maybe I don't understand what you mean by strict scrutiny," Giuliani said at another point.

At a different moment, Giuliani said: "I'm not quite sure what 'opacity' means. It probably means you can see."

The judge responded: "It means you can't."

In a heated 45-minute speech delivered over a patchy telephone link, Mark Aronchick, an attorney representing several Pennsylvania counties, said that Giuliani was ignorant of the law, living in "some fantasy world" and pushing wild allegations that were "disgraceful in an American courtroom."

Aronchick concluded by urging Brann: "Dismiss this case. Please, dismiss this case. So we can move on."

[In reversal, GOP officials in key Michigan county certify ballot count after striking a compromise with Democrats]

Brann declined to do so, setting a deadline of 5 p.m. Wednesday for the president's team to file a motion opposing the election officials' attempt to dismiss the lawsuit.

This, too, appeared to confuse Giuliani, who asked if the judge was inviting him to file the retooled third version of the lawsuit that he'd promised earlier.

"This is a brief in opposition to their motion to dismiss," Brann replied.

"Oh!" Giuliani said. "Oh, sure, absolutely."

Giuliani did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

The president's attorney opened his appearance in court with a broad claim: that the Trump campaign was alleging "widespread nationwide voter fraud."

But he was unable to provide evidence of any fraud, and he said later under questioning from Brann that the lawsuit did not allege fraud as a matter of law and that "this is not a fraud case."

Without citing any evidence, Giuliani painted a sinister picture of Democratic Party machines conspiring to fix the election against Trump. He alleged without proof that mail ballots counted after Election Day in cities such as Philadelphia and Pittsburgh were somehow faked to help Democrat Joe Biden make up a lead that Trump held among in-person voters on Election Day, whose ballots were counted first.

Addressing the one formal claim that remained in Trump's lawsuit, Giuliani argued that Trump's campaign and Republican voters had their constitutional rights violated when the Democratic-leaning counties invited voters to "cure," or fix, defective ballots.

"The Trump campaign has been treated totally differently than the Bush campaign," Giuliani said, misstating the name of President-elect Biden.

Attorneys for state and county authorities denied that charge, saying that Pennsylvania law allowed officials to contact voters with defective ballots, and arguing at length that Trump's campaign had no standing to bring its lawsuit in federal court.

The defense attorneys repeatedly criticized Giuliani for basing his arguments on the discarded allegations that Republican observers were not allowed to watch ballots being counted, noting that three formal counts and a request for action over the issue had been erased in the revised version of the lawsuit.

[Trump campaign jettisons major parts of its legal challenge against Pennsylvania's election results]

"Mr. Giuliani is talking about another case, not the case before your honor," Aronchick said. Daniel Donovan, an attorney for Pennsylvania Secretary of State Kathy Boockvar (D), said Giuliani was focusing on allegations that had been "deleted, deleted, deleted, deleted."

While the hearing was taking place, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court ruled against Trump in a separate case on the count observers, holding that Philadelphia authorities had given reasonable access to representatives from Trump's campaign.

In his own remarks, Donovan said that with its allegation about ballot-curing, the Trump campaign was ultimately arguing that "certain ballots should not have been counted." He noted that there was "no claim of voter fraud" in Trump's complaint.

"There is no claim in the complaint that any qualified Pennsylvania voter cast more than one ballot that was counted," Donovan said. "There is no claim that any qualified voter who cast a mail-in ballot had their vote wrongly rejected. There is no claim that anyone not eligible to vote in fact voted."

Biden has been projected the winner of Pennsylvania and leads Trump in the state by more than 74,000 votes. Officials in the state are continuing to count outstanding ballots. Counties are due to file their final tallies to state authorities by Nov. 23.

Trump's campaign sued Boockvar and six counties where Biden defeated Trump. Lawyers for counties involved have said that the dispute about ballot-curing was unlikely to affect enough votes to change the outcome. Montgomery County, which Biden won by more than 130,000 votes, has said that fewer than 100 ballots are implicated.

But Linda Kerns, an attorney for Trump, claimed otherwise in court on Tuesday. "If everyone had had a chance to cure, it's very likely that the results would have been very, very different," said Kerns, who did not provide evidence.

© Bonnie Jo Mount/The Washington Post Election employees extract mail-in ballots in a secure room at the Pennsylvania Convention Center in Philadelphia on Nov. 3.

Cliff Levine, an attorney representing the Democratic Party in the case, told The Washington Post on Sunday that Trump's team was "suing the wrong counties" and ought to redirect its legal challenge. "They should be suing the counties that didn't allow their voters to cure the defects," he said.

Giuliani's appearance in the case came after Trump's team cycled through multiple other attorneys. The president was initially represented in the case by two attorneys from the firm Porter Wright Morris & Arthur, who withdrew last week. Tim Murtaugh, the Trump campaign's communications director, said that the firm had "buckled" under pressure from opponents of the president's effort to challenge the election results. Two more attorneys representing Trump's campaign in the case withdrew on Monday.

Kerns also sought to pull out, but Brann declined to let her, saying at Tuesday's hearing that he needed a lawyer involved in the case from the start to be present to answer his questions.

Marc Scaringi, a lawyer based in Harrisburg, Pa., who is a conservative talk-radio host, also joined Trump's team on Monday. Earlier this month, Scaringi voiced skepticism about whether Trump's legal campaign could change the outcome of the election.

"At the end of the day, in my view, the litigation will not work," Scaringi said Nov. 7 on iHeartRadio. "It will not reverse this election." A blog post on the website of Scaringi's firm, which described Biden as the president-elect, was removed after Scaringi's appointment to Trump's legal team was announced.


Tags

jrDiscussion - desc
smarty_function_ntUser_is_admin: user_id parameter required
[]
 
Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom
1  seeder  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom    one week ago

I was a huge fan of Rudy Giuliani back when he actually cared about the people of this nation.  Now he seems to be as inept and foolish as the outgoing president.  The idiocy he displayed in court was unbelievable.

"The poll-watching claims were deleted," Brann told Giuliani. "They're now not before this court, so why should I consider them now?"

"The Trump campaign has been treated totally differently than the Bush campaign," Giuliani said, misstating the name of President-elect Biden.

At a different moment, Giuliani said: "I'm not quite sure what 'opacity' means. It probably means you can see."  The judge responded: "It means you can't."

"Mr. Giuliani is talking about another case, not the case before your honor," Aronchick said. Daniel Donovan, an attorney for Pennsylvania Secretary of State Kathy Boockvar (D), said Giuliani was focusing on allegations that had been "deleted, deleted, deleted, deleted."

Why would Trump allow Rudy's participation to continue?  My take:  So Trump can add one more name to his blame list for the incompetence and complete failure of his administration. 

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
1.1  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom @1    one week ago
At a different moment, Giuliani said: "I'm not quite sure what 'opacity' means. It probably means you can see."  The judge responded: "It means you can't."

Wow,and that about sums up Trump, Giuliani, Barr, and his entire Administration of FOOLS, cause when the "ruler" sets the standards as to which we are to be measured, it must happen in a "dark room", cause as the measurement is nothing plus some, as in extremely NEGATIVE , as polarity is reversed, as if US were cursed, and the Ratchet Nursed, cause until i hear the 'Chief' muttering juicy fruit, while Trump LIES with the pillows in bed, the fragile fraudulent faux FUX, are gonna keep spinnin on there heads, obviously need  A LOT MORE MEDS, cause our system has been exploited buy the won brought forth as the anointed, proven by practically all he ever did have appointed. Cause Up is down, wrong is right, and defenders of Trumpp, just AIN"T

 
 
 
Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom
1.1.1  seeder  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom  replied to  igknorantzrulz @1.1    one week ago
cause our system has been exploited buy the won brought forth as the anointed, proven by practically all he ever did have appointed. Cause Up is down, wrong is right, and defenders of Trumpp, just AIN"T

I wish I could up that 100 times.  100.

 
 
 
devangelical
1.2  devangelical  replied to  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom @1    one week ago

any positive thing giuliani had ever accomplished in the past has now been erased by his devotion to the petulant man-child that until now has never been denied whatever he wanted. another willing victim headed for the trash heap of history.

 
 
 
Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom
1.2.1  seeder  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom  replied to  devangelical @1.2    one week ago
another willing victim headed for the trash heap of history.

Every victim has bus tracks up and down their backs.

256

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
1.3  FLYNAVY1  replied to  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom @1    one week ago

It's all about maintaining the conspiracy theory for the rabid and equally delusional Trump base.  It's not about winning... It's about maintaining the image.

 
 
 
Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom
1.3.1  seeder  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @1.3    one week ago
It's about maintaining the image.

ORLEUBRZCII6RF3ACFYYET343Q.jpg

Ding-dong, and

Rudy-Giuliani.png

...ding-dongier.

Not to mention...

34756874-8872697-image-m-6_1603466027353.jpg

...ding-dongiest.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
1.4  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom @1    one week ago

It is too bad that the ABA does not have its own version of the 25th.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
1.5  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom @1    one week ago

I believe Guliani is suffering from some form of dementia.

He was a brilliant lawyer at one time and brought justice to the mob. A brilliant lawyer with all his faculties would know what opacity means.

It's time for Rudy to hang it up and go play with the grandkids while he can still remember their names

 
 
 
Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom
1.5.1  seeder  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.5    one week ago
It's time for Rudy to hang it up and go play with the grandkids while he can still remember their names

I agree, but in the meantime he is out there hurting innocent people on purpose at Trump's bidding.  That is difficult to overlook.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
1.5.2  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom @1.5.1    one week ago
but in the meantime he is out there hurting innocent people on purpose at Trump's bidding.

On our dime, too

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
1.5.3  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.5    one week ago

brought justice to the mob.

Now he is just a flunkie and a diseased tool of a mob family...The Trumpbinos.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
1.5.4  Trout Giggles  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @1.5.3    one week ago
Politically a Democrat, then an Independent in the 1970s, and a Republican since the 1980s, Giuliani was the United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York during the 1980s. Giuliani prosecuted pivotal cases against the American Mafia, and against corrupt corporate financiers. 

It was the Five Families he prosecuted under RICO

 
 
 
Kavika
2  Kavika     one week ago

What an embarrassment. 

 
 
 
Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom
2.1  seeder  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom  replied to  Kavika @2    one week ago
What an embarrassment. 

The new MAGA hats...

OIP.KmnoVDxdIVO0SvaHNNGSZAHaLE?pid=Api&rs=1

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
3  Hal A. Lujah    one week ago

A lawyer* who doesn’t know the definition of opacity.  How fitting.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
3.1  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @3    one week ago

not sure, as it is unclear to me...but clear as day to Rudy USA , the mayor left in the un-stable

 
 
 
evilgenius
4  evilgenius    one week ago

Why is the Emperor using the Fool as his lead litigator? Have all his Knights abandoned him? 

 
 
 
Kavika
4.1  Kavika   replied to  evilgenius @4    one week ago

The last to go is always the ''Court Jester''....jrSmiley_2_smiley_image.png

 
 
 
evilgenius
4.1.1  evilgenius  replied to  Kavika @4.1    one week ago

Can one embarrass themselves if they don't feel shame?

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
4.1.2  igknorantzrulz  replied to  evilgenius @4.1.1    one week ago

they should be embarrassed for being NUMB, to shame our country, is all they've done.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
4.2  igknorantzrulz  replied to  evilgenius @4    one week ago
Why is the Emperor using the Fool as his lead litigator? Have all his Knights abandoned him?

Cause he has a clothesed mind that doesn't, is addicted to pyrite from Russian prostitutes that dew, and who else wood a Golden Fool float to be the head, made of lead, who thinks he will get a ticket for discarding his trash, as the "lead litigator", stupid instigator shedding crocodile skin fore Trumppy and him, cause Knights abandon the daze we are all subject s too, every mourning, looks less opacity, as long as Trump n cump R hangin round here, unless the rope is afraid, a long two months will need be shaved off all of his thin skin, cause , Trumpp IS the IGNORANCE KING, and the Jester, said "the music wouldn't play".

 
 
 
Kavika
5  Kavika     one week ago

126135278_1509363552593221_7093413249702634917_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=ri9AiHGSuOoAX-_FFcY&_nc_ht=scontent-mia3-2.xx&oh=6279f4d8cf98b2ebaa43cd95a4517a50&oe=5FDAA169

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
5.1  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Kavika @5    one week ago

nicely done

 
 
 
Kavika
6  Kavika     one week ago

512

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
6.1  Bob Nelson  replied to  Kavika @6    one week ago

Either you are a creative genius, or you know some really good sources for memes.... 

      jrSmiley_79_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
6.1.1  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Bob Nelson @6.1    one week ago

I vote both.

 
 
 
Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom
6.2  seeder  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom  replied to  Kavika @6    one week ago

That looks completely real.  And if it's not, it should be.

 
 
 
Gsquared
7  Gsquared    one week ago

Happy Thanksgiving

256

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
7.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  Gsquared @7    one week ago

I bet that turkey is rancid

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
7.1.1  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Trout Giggles @7.1    one week ago

What that turkey is full of you don't need to ever serve it.

 
 
 
Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom
7.2  seeder  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom  replied to  Gsquared @7    one week ago

That image is way too flattering.

 
 
 
Tessylo
8  Tessylo    one week ago

125556516_3542095995829665_4440411283275862544_o.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=HdX6h8K3uFwAX9sRH1a&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=cd30aa624a728a1cb46eced457ccb4fc&oe=5FDB3529

 
 
 
Gsquared
9  Gsquared    one week ago

800

 
 
Loading...
Loading...

Who is online

Greg Jones


42 visitors