Fact checking Giuliani and the Trump legal team's wild, fact-free press conference

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  john-russell  •  one week ago  •  28 comments

By:   Tara Subramaniam, Holmes Lybrand (MSN)

Fact checking Giuliani and the Trump legal team's wild, fact-free press conference
In a wild, tangent-filled and often contentious press briefing led by President Donald Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani, the Trump campaign's legal team laid out its case for widespread voter fraud in the election. The roughly 90-minute briefing was overflowing with falsehoods and conspiracy theories.

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



AAxY5AI.img?h=24&w=24&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f&f=png Fact checking Giuliani and the Trump legal team's wild, fact-free press conference

In a wild, tangent-filled and often contentious press briefing led by President Donald Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani, the Trump campaign's legal team laid out its case for widespread voter fraud in the election. The roughly 90-minute briefing was overflowing with falsehoods and conspiracy theories.

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At no point did Trump's legal team offer any proof for their allegations of widespread fraud. Jenna Ellis, a legal adviser for the campaign, said the group was laying out an "introductory statement" with more to come, and called the team an "elite strike force." Also working for the campaign, attorney Sidney Powell made extreme, baseless claims about communist Venezuela and George Soros supposedly interfering in the US election. Giuliani on multiple occasions made allegations citing individuals he said couldn't be revealed for their own safety and wellbeing.

Many of their specific claims have already been refuted by federal election security experts and a wide, bipartisan array of election administrators across the country.

Here's a look at some of the top claims made during the briefing and the facts around them.

Certification in Wayne County


Giuliani said the Trump campaign withdrew one case in Michigan because its goal was to get the Wayne County board to decertify and they did.

Facts First: This is false. The county's results were certified on Tuesday night.

Two Republican members of the Board initially deadlocked the vote but then reversed their decision and voted to certify Tuesday night. They have since sent in affidavits to rescind their vote but have not filed any lawsuits to try to force the county to call a new meeting. Since the deadline has passed, the certification still stands.

Democratic Vice Chair Jonathan Kinloch said Thursday that board members' votes cannot be changed after the fact.

-- Tara Subramaniam and Annie Grayer

'Overvotes' in Michigan


"One of the reasons why the Republicans did not certify in Wayne County, Michigan, was because the over-vote was so high," Giuliani claimed. He added, "what I'm describing to you is a massive fraud."

Facts First: This is false.

What Giuliani called an over-vote is often referred to as an imbalance where the number of ballots tabulated does not equal the number of people signed in to vote at a specific polling location.

Past elections in Michigan with larger imbalances have been certified without issue, including in 2016 when Trump won the state, according the Michigan Secretary of State.

"They certified the vote in 2016 with 80% of Detroit precincts out of balance. And yet today, 42% were out of balance and yet it didn't get certified, so clearly there is no valid point here," Michigan Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson said.

Benson told CNN it's "quite common" for precincts to be out of balance but "it doesn't indicate there's any malfeasance," adding "it's more of a bookkeeping, clerical issue."

There are many reasons a precinct could be out of balance and have a discrepancy between the number of ballots cast and the number of people registered into the poll book, according to Chris Thomas who served as a senior adviser to the Detroit City Clerk. Thomas, who has built a decades-long career serving both Republican and Democratic Secretaries of State, told CNN that in general, through his many years of experience, an imbalance should be viewed as clerical mistakes and not fraud.

-- Tara Subramaniam and Annie Grayer

Poll Watchers


Giuliani claimed that more than 600,000 ballots in Pennsylvania "weren't inspected which renders them ballots that are null and void."

Facts First: This is false. Nothing is illegitimate about those ballots.

A Pennsylvania Supreme Court justice decided that the Philadelphia County board of elections complied with the law in how it allowed observers access to the canvassing process.

The law allows the observers to be present, the judge wrote, but they do not have the right to inspect or look over the shoulders of the workers counting the ballots. The judge ruled canvas watchers in Philadelphia cannot challenge ballots and don't need to inspect each individual signature.

-- Tara Subramaniam

Mail-in ballots


Giuliani falsely claimed that mail-in ballots are "prone to fraud."

Facts First: Election experts have told CNN time and time again that mail-in ballots are a safe form of voting and not subject to widespread fraud.

-- Holmes Lybrand

Justice Alito and Pennsylvania


At one point Giuliani suggested that US Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito intervened in Pennsylvania and told the state that, "any ballot that comes in after 8 o'clock on November 3, 2020 had to be put aside and not opened."

Facts First: It's false for Giuliani to claim Alito ordered counties not to open ballots received after 8 p.m. on Election Day. Instead, Alito directed the county boards of election to follow the guidance issued by Pennsylvania's Secretary of State, which called for segregating ballots arriving November 4-6, and to keep them separate even if they were counted.

On November 6, the Republican Party of Pennsylvania asked the US Supreme Court to order Secretary of State Kathy Boockvar to "log, to segregate, and otherwise not to take any action related to any ballots that arrive" after Election Day.

Alito said he would refer the application to the court. The justices have yet to rule on the Republicans' petition that "no action" be taken on the ballots.

Alito, who has jurisdiction over the Pennsylvania region, issued an order November 6 that directed that "all county boards of election" are ordered to "comply with" the guidelines put forward by the Secretary of the Commonwealth, essentially maintaining the status quo.

-- Ariane deVogue and Tara Subramaniam

71% inconsistent data


Jenna Ellis, a senior legal adviser for the Trump campaign, claimed that Wayne County, Michigan, was not going to certify its results "because 71% of counties have inconsistent data."

Facts First: This is misleading.

While Ellis did not specify what she meant by inconsistent data, it's likely she was referring to precincts that are out of balance, where the number of voters recorded in the poll book doesn't match the number of ballots cast.

According to the Michigan Secretary of State's office, 71% of the absentee ballot-counting locations in Detroit, which is part of Wayne County, didn't balance. However, the total number of precincts that did not balance in the city overall was much lower. Including in-person ballots, 42% of the total precincts in Detroit did not balance.

Imbalances were part of the reason two Republican members of the Wayne County Board of Canvassers temporarily blocked certification of the county's results. The results were ultimately certified after an agreement which stipulated in part that Michigan's Secretary of State would be called on to do a comprehensive audit on the specific precincts in Detroit that did not balance.

Clerical errors resulting in these imbalances have not stopped past certifications in the county. In the August primary, Wayne County certified its results when 72% of absentee counting boards in Detroit and 46% of the total precincts in the county did not reconcile.

For this election the Wayne County Board of Canvassers has not officially released their final report that will include which precincts in the county did not balance.

-- Tara Subramaniam and Annie Grayer

This story is being updated.

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JohnRussell
1  seeder  JohnRussell    one week ago

BB1bb8bq.img?h=450&w=799&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f&x=695&y=266

Hair dye drips down the side of the madman's face as the world watches. 

 
 
 
Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom
1.1  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom  replied to  JohnRussell @1    one week ago

I was just about to ask what that was on his face.  That happened today and not a single person bothered to tell him about it?  That makes me think he is about to become Trump's next idiot fall-guy.

 
 
 
Kavika
1.1.1  Kavika   replied to  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom @1.1    one week ago

LOL, I thought it was what was left of any brain matter he may have had.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
1.1.2  Trout Giggles  replied to  Kavika @1.1.1    one week ago

A trmp campaign staffer was caught on a hot mic talking about his "fucking hair dye dripping down his face"

 
 
 
Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom
1.1.3  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.1.2    one week ago

I think it was a huge mistake for Rudy to return to the public eye so soon after the hands down the pants thing.  He's making a doof of himself all over the place. 

 
 
 
devangelical
1.1.4  devangelical  replied to  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom @1.1.3    one week ago

I think the bus is quickly coming up behind him and it's not slowing down.

 
 
 
Raven Wing
1.1.5  Raven Wing  replied to  Kavika @1.1.1    one week ago
I thought it was what was left of any brain matter he may have had.

I thought so too. The color looks as if what brain matter he had was rotted and wa oozing out down his face. Looks like it could be a DIY job.

 
 
 
Raven Wing
1.1.6  Raven Wing  replied to  devangelical @1.1.4    one week ago
I think the bus is quickly coming up behind him and it's not slowing down.

Is that the short bus? I think it is the one the saner GOP folks ordered for Trump on the sly. Although, it could be one they ordered for Rudy.

They're a guaranteed free ride to......to.....shhhh... 

 
 
 
Kavika
1.2  Kavika   replied to  JohnRussell @1    one week ago

Critics roast Giuliani for apparent hair dye mishap: 'Hire union hair and makeup professionals'

 
 
 
Gsquared
2  Gsquared    one week ago

800

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
3  Trout Giggles    one week ago

I'll take Paul Lynde in the center, please

 
 
 
evilgenius
4  evilgenius    one week ago

When you can't win in the court of law, try the court of public opinion. I think Crazy Uncle Rudy here lost both.

 
 
 
Kavika
5  Kavika     one week ago

That had to be the most bizarre press conferences that I've seen in quite some time. 

126135278_1509363552593221_7093413249702634917_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=ri9AiHGSuOoAX-_FFcY&_nc_ht=scontent-mia3-2.xx&oh=6279f4d8cf98b2ebaa43cd95a4517a50&oe=5FDAA169

 
 
 
Gsquared
5.1  Gsquared  replied to  Kavika @5    one week ago

800

 
 
 
Kavika
6  Kavika     one week ago

512

 
 
 
Raven Wing
6.1  Raven Wing  replied to  Kavika @6    one week ago

Totally fitting....and describes Rudy to a T. The idiot does not seem to know just how big of an idiot he is making out of himself. In the end his reputation as a lawyer will be/is completely down the drain at this point. He will never be able to make a living as a lawyer that will give him the big bucks he is used to. 

I would not hire him to represent the stupid fly hanging on the screen on my front window. However, Rudy's reputation was flawed before he took up with Trump, but, it took his butt kissing with Trump that finally ruined his name for good.

 
 
 
lady in black
7  lady in black    one week ago

Giuliani is arbitrary and capricious:

ARBITRARY AND CAPRICIOUS

Absence of a rational connection between the facts found and the choice made. Natural Resources. v. U.S., 966 F.2d 1292, 97, (9th Cir.'92). A clear error of judgment; an action not based upon consideration of relevant factors and so is arbitrary, capricious, an abuse of discretion or otherwise not in accordance with law or if it was taken without observance of procedure required by law. 5 USC. 706(2)(A) (1988).

 
 
 
Split Personality
8  Split Personality    one week ago

I guess the only question left, is WHY?

WHY does a sitting POTUS have a senile old cow for a lawyer

and not sack this sonofabitch?

Good people are being sacked right and left,

why does the POTUS allow Rudy G to humiliate Rudy, Donald and office of The President of The United States?

WHY?

 
 
 
Raven Wing
8.1  Raven Wing  replied to  Split Personality @8    one week ago
WHY?

Because not many other lawyers are so easily manipulated and willing to have their name in their profession tainted or ruined by representing Trump. Especially, since most of them won't be paid in the end. And more and more are seeing that happen.

So...Rudy is one of the biggest legal schmeggles around is willing to risk it all for a chance to represent the biggest liar and rip-offs on the planet. And indeed, Trump will likely throw him under the bus as well when he is no longer President, and will need a real lawyer to represent him in his dealings with the Feds and other LEO organizations. 

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
8.1.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  Raven Wing @8.1    one week ago

Rudy might be the only one he get can to represent him after he leaves office, so maybe that's why he's hanging on to him.

 
 
 
Ender
8.1.2  Ender  replied to  Trout Giggles @8.1.1    one week ago

Rudy is starting to remind me of the typical sleeezbag mobster lawyer.

Weird watching his descent into madness.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
8.1.3  Trout Giggles  replied to  Ender @8.1.2    one week ago

I think it's sad. I, like Sister, admired him at one time

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
8.2  sandy-2021492  replied to  Split Personality @8    one week ago
WHY does a sitting POTUS have a senile old cow for a lawyer

Because he's too stupid to recognize that Rudy is a senile old cow, so long as Rudy is on his side.

 
 
 
Kavika
9  Kavika     one week ago
so long as Rudy is on his side.

That is all that matters and when it finally gets too much for even Trump the next thing that Rudy will see is the bus tire that flattens him.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
10  seeder  JohnRussell    one week ago

giuliani-1605823153.jpg?crop=1.00xw:1.00xh;0,0&resize=640:*

 
 
 
JohnRussell
10.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  JohnRussell @10    one week ago
Anyone who watched this torrential storm of arrant bullshit will know a lawyer named Sydney Powell was even further into Dimension X than Giuliani was, attributing the plot to "Communist money" and a nefarious gathering of hosts that included Venezuela, Cuba, China, various voting-machine companies, George Soros, Antifa, Black Lives Matter, and Hugo Chavez, who managed to fix the 2020 presidential election seven years after he died. There is nowhere to go with these people. They are promulgating suspicion and ignorance that can't help but bleed over into the crisis of the pandemic. Thuycidides worried that the plague made people crazy. He didn't have to deal with a country that was already febrile and half-insane before anyone had run an actual fever.
 
 
 
Trout Giggles
10.1.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  JohnRussell @10.1    one week ago

Someone should do an investigation of the last restaurants they ate in

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
11  sandy-2021492    one week ago

Headline from Andy Borowitz - Appearance in Borat No Longer Giuliani's Most Embarrassing Performance.

 
 
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