'Juno' Star Elliot Page Comes Out as Transgender

I remember seeing "Juno" years ago and thinking the star of the movie was a really cute girl. 

Then she was a lesbian and is now a guy named Elliot. 

Does he/she still act in movies? 

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Lola - The Kinks

Gotta love this sentence

Elliot Page began their career as a child actor before their breakout performances in 2005's Hard Candy and 2007's Juno . They most recently starred in the Netflix series The Umbrella Academy .

All I know is I was taught that "they" meant more than one. I can't get behind calling a single person "they". It goes against my grammatical instincts

Yeah, I'm with ya on that one. 

Part of me sits here asking why is this news. So they came out as trans, so what? Their choice didn't change the type of day I had, probably didn't change your day either. Only change was to their day I would think. If it makes um happy more power to um. I just don't understand why it has to be news. Who you are and who you like is to me a rather personal decision and I'm a more private person so this sharing is sort of beyond me. Of course I am also not working in Hollywood so that might also explain why they felt they had to go public with the news. I don't think it will make much difference with discrimination,  haters are still gonna hate regardless of if it's just one, or a thousand,  or a million who go public. And as i said, I'm a more private person so I wouldn't share this type of news,  rather I would just live it if this was me.

I'll admit I don't understand the whole transgender / binary thing, but then again I don't have to understand it any more than I have to understand why someone prefers redheads over blonds,  or thin over stocky. If someone decided that's who they are, then that's who they are. 

If a "regular " person becomes open transgender, I dont think it is news.  This person is a relatively well known actor though and made the announcement theirselves and I think that does make it "news". 

This person is a relatively well known actor though and made the announcement theirselves and I think that does make it "news". 

That's my point,  it doesn't have to be news. Ellen (now Elliot) was out as gay for many years. So those who would hate or discriminate were going to anyway. Does this make the actor any more marketable? Will it make people more likely to want to see a movie they are in? I think it's looked at as news because main-stream media needs to push to fill a 24x7 cycle. But for me, the need to push this out on social media is more about filling a void in their own lives rather than news to us. Like i said, it doesn't change our lives, doesn't change what movies and entertainment I'm more likely to go see. It's more noise than news to me and I feel that we could all use a  bit more quiet in our lives these days.

Yeah, I don't get the whole big announcement thing, why do it?

I don't see straights coming out as such.

I classify pretty much all that kind f stuff as TOO MUCH INFORMATION, especially from well-known people. I just am interested in them for their performances and really don't give a shit about their sexual preferences, gender, or politics--none of my business, so please don't make it mine!

It's Elliot's "duty" not to live as though he is trying to hide an "exotic" life from a recently more judgemental society. As for "straights" they are already out all over the world. No. Big. Deal. For. Straights.

But if you think that say, Ben Affleck or Kevin Hart showing up in public with a man 'partner' is not worthy of advance notice: Good for you! Others may be pleasantly or horribly shocked.

Sorry, but I see no point in "celebrating" anyone's preferences or sexuality or gender.

Seems the best way to "inclusion" is to not single yourself out as a piece of "news".

I am not asking anyone to hide anything, but is it necessary to advertise to the whole world? To what point?

Of course, then perhaps this news is wasted on you. There is all kinds of "knowables" in the universe of things. See it, note it remarkable or meh, and move on.

What you can not do is pretend some 'mericans won't find him offensive for what he has done and is doing to himself! It is our surrounding world that Elliott is putting on notice and 'alert' so it can get its collective thoughts (fhit) together ahead of his arrival around town and beyond.

Moreover, it is the public announcement that is economical and less stressful on the heart and mind. Professionally, casting agents, producers, and even fans are on notice that Ellen "she" is no more! There is no need to cause "upset" looking for her or disappointment to anybody when she can not take a job!

And thus Texan, not everything is about how you experience it alone.

Of course, then perhaps thisnewsis wasted on you.

As I previously explained, I don't consider this to be "news".

What you can not do is pretend some 'mericans won't findhimoffensive for what he has done and is doing to himself!

Since I clearly spoke only for myself, what ARE you going on about now? If you have some sort of problem with people having their own personal opinions about this, I suggest you take your battles up with THEM.

And thus Texan, not everything is about how you experience italone.

Since I never have said or though anything remotely close to that, what ARE you going on about--again?

Also, whatever he/she chooses to do to his/her body is his/her business, and I would have preferred it personally if he/she kept it that way. I have no need to know what preferences he/she has.

Meh!

Ditto. (Burps.)

Gee, thanks for the usual productive discussion, which you managed to aptly wrap up with your one post.

Thanks ever so much once again, and you have a great life!

You're welcome. I have more of the usual, just keep coming back. (Winks.)

I bet you do, but what exactly would be the point of me wasting my time with it?

I'll admit I don't understand the whole transgender / binary thing, but then again I don't have to understand it any more than I have to understand why someone prefers redheads over blonds,  or thin over stocky. If someone decided that's who they are, then that's who they are. 

yeah, personally I am waiting for some Hollywood star to come out as a proud straight person.

Hmm, I wonder what the reaction would be?

LOL!

yeah, personally I am waiting for some Hollywood star to come out as a proud straight person.

For myself,  I'm waiting for some young hot starlet to come out and state she's looking for an old fat man to pamper and take care of.  hehe...  

Will you apply for the job? That's assuming you're fat and and old. If you're not, my apologies

hehehe...  yes on both but I don't look at it as a job,  rather an opportunity for some foolish young starlet to toss good sense away.  It would be easier for me if she was a fan of Kindergarten Cop and was suffering from a 'brain toomah'...   much easier to explain why young and hot would go for old and not,  like me. 

I think she would be lucky if she got you.

Aww, you're being sweet to say that to Snuffy! (Smile.)

Snuffy is a nice guy.

I get it now. Thank you! (Smile.)

Well thank you,  thank you very much...    

Nice to know I have one person on this board fooled. 

You have a wicked sense of humor. That means you have intelligence. And you're not mean to people

I am in line for one of those ahead of you, not sorry. 

I don't know...   I'm a fan of Teddy Roosevelt and I can carry a pretty big stick...   

Part of me sits here asking why is this news.

Not arguing anything you stated, just thought I'd point out that "news" is broken down into many sub-sections ie: National news, International news, Business news, Sports news, Fashion news, Health news, etc and something I generally don't read, Entertainment news.  IMO this article was and is a part of Entertainment news and was judged worthy of publishing within that specific sub-section. 

Part of me sits here asking why is this news.

Its not.  It has absolutely no effect or affect on anything to a normal person.

Man, woman, TG, or lesbian, I adore Ellen Page especially in the XMen movies.  You go girl.  Haters gonna hate, but the fans have your back Ellen.

Hard Candy, now that was a 'hard' movie to watch and keep down! It left an impression.

Did any one see "Hard Candy" - excellent "entertaining" movie, worthy of commentary. But again, hard to watch! If you can find the time and the movie - Check. It. Out.

As I live and breath some of the new parlance these young people are labeling themselves with are a wonder! "Non-binary" for example. I get it. But boy O boy!

I am trans, my pronouns are he/they,

People should not be referring to themselves as "they". I don't care which gender is used , but it should not be  "they". 

I agree. I am sure there is a rationale for this parlance, but it beats me. I am confident I can understand it, but that would require me to look it up. One day I just might. But for right now where I stand: it's not good grammar usage!

I always picked up on Page being tomboyish...

Me too. Although, I loosely though she was kinda scrawny and drawn. I wondered why that girl wouldn't put some meat on her bones.  (Chuckles.) Now I see better of it.

Tomboyish is not the same as identifying as a man though. I've always been tomboyish, but I don't reject being a woman.

What I want to know is, did "Elliot" get a surgery to become a man, or just identifying as one now? I get very confused at the terms now; when I had a long, deep conversation with a male to female transgender, she did go under the knife and until that happened, she still called a he. I don't understand when being transgender simply became the desire to be the opposing sex as to what one was born. If "Elliot" did not go under the knife, I would say that "Elliot" is still a lesbian woman with the desire of being a man. Then again, that's just my opinion. 

While I don't give a rat's hairy ass whether someone is gay, straight, bi, liberal, conservative, black, white, purple, etc... I don't care the status of people in the entertainment world. I also don't understand why there's such hate of anyone for any one of the aforementioned reasons / categories.

Hi MsAubrey! Excellent question! Actually, I learned something about the question when looking this up! Here is something along the lines of your question/'concern':

Do you have to be transgender to identify as nonbinary?

Nonbinary gender has to do with who someone knows themself to be. Some nonbinary people identify as transgender, while others do not.

This may sound confusing, but when laid out, it’s actually very simple. A trans nonbinary person is someone who doesn’t identify with the sex that was assigned at birth (trans) and also has a gender identity that can’t be categorized as exclusively male or female (nonbinary).

A nonbinary person who doesn’t identify as trans may partially identify with the sex assigned at birth, as well as have a gender identity that can’t be categorized as strictly male or female.

healthline

So no sex change, I presume. There is more on the subject matter (than I posted) on the link site!

That's all so damn complicated.

How far is this labeling going to go?

Honestly, when they added the "Q" on to LGBTQ I was full to my saturation point! (Chuckles.)  That said, in keeping with my open-minded conceptualization of myself, I am okay(!) with the "new kids" in the community! Come on in kids - all we need is peace, love, and soul!  Yep, that will do it!

The problem comes in when someone is offended when people don't know the "correct label" for said person / people / him / her / she / he / them / they / non-binary homo sapien ... whatever. Biologically speaking: XX = female and XY = male. Physical body: vagina, uterus, ovaries, eggs & fallopian tubes (not to say that someone who's had a complete hysterectomy is not female, because vagina) = female | and penis & testicles with sperm and semen (again, not saying that a man that's had a vasectomy isn't male, because penis, testicles and semen) = male.

Homo sapiens require egg & womb (no matter the means of womb; it could be manmade) + sperm to = another homo sapien. 

Therefore, if a homo sapien has XX chromosomes and vagina et.al., that human is female despite however she characterizes herself or whom she's attracted to, she is female biologically and physically speaking. The same in reverse; if a homo sapien has XY chromosomes and penis et.al., that human is male despite however he characterizes himself or whom he's attracted to, he is male, biologically and physically speaking.

To simply claim oneself as a male or female or nonbinary really doesn't mean diddly to me. To me, that's like me claiming I'm a unicorn that farts rainbows and people accepting it as truth. If someone wants to go by a different name, I don't care, I'll use that different name, but don't go telling me that you're a man with a vagina and that's why you decided to change your name.

MsAubrey, I hear you, Lady. In my case, being that I am homosexual-abstinent-Christian-black male and not necessarily in that order. I said that to establish a basis for why I can be open to letting people call themselves and do anything (safe, legal) they want. If it's just what is in a name and it floats their boat then I say go for it.

This reminds me of something back in my 'heydays" - the day I understood, because I saw it in stark relief two sexual fetishes:

1. Men who have rubber (latex) fetishes.
2. Men who apparently enjoy lesbian sex erotica.

Both styles left me full of questions unanswered to this day. But, I accept these people for who they say they are and for what I saw them doing.

Men who apparently enjoy lesbian sex erotica.

You mean there are men who do not like seeing two hot women in action?   

I could accept it fine if many would set aside being offended by everything. When I slip and say she rather than he or whatever the scenario, it's not purposeful. It's not intended as offensive, rude or dismissive.

The few transgenders I have known weren't offended very easily and were fine with me asking for clarification of their preferred reference, but they're not from this new generation (Gen Z or iGen); they're Gen X. The several gay men I have known / currently know aren't very easily offended either, but they're not of this new generation (Gen Z or iGen); they're Gen X. My children are Gen Z / iGen and many of them are very easily offended... by EVERYTHING. Ironically however, "Elliot" Page is a Millennial and a mere 8 years my junior.

I don't know... I just think it's silly to go so overboard and then be offended when someone slips or simply doesn't recognize that they've declared a different sex despite not ever changing anything to their physical appearance. Maybe that's why these celebrities feel the need to announce it, because unless it's been publicly declared, no one would know the difference.

HA! Alright now-Hey!

The thing that confused me (back then to now) is it came across that these hetero men wanted to be in a lesbian relationship. (It was what turned them on! No males whatsoever in the storylines.)

I may be wrong (CB can chime in), but I don't think gay men tend to desire such things. 

Er, right. Of course, to each his own!  Now then, just between "us" on NT, I will say this. This new thing of women who transition (half-way) to male up-top but not down below - are quite stunning and interesting (for me to look at—only because of my abstinence that is).

There is such a person at the local store clerking. Hot! Eye candy. Now men who transition to women I am platonic about.

I suspect we should exclude gay men from that group.   Not likely to be as interested.

And I've met some damn beautiful M to F transgenders that transition everything except below the belt so to speak. 

I had a very enlightening conversation with Michelle, a M to F transgender. She had her adam's apple shaved, her vocal chords modified, breasts installed, laser hair removal on the face, and hormone therapy; she was all female except in the pants. I asked her how that works [relationships / sex], because if I hadn't been told she's a transformed transgender, I would have NO IDEA and I suspect that most men wouldn't either and she's attracted to men. I asked her if she told men she dated prior to "surprise"! She laughed and told me that she did the "surprise" before and it went badly. She said usually she'll date them for a while and before engaging in any sexual activity, she would tell them. I asked her if men that identified as straight men freaked out. She said that most often, surprisingly no. I was simply curious how that would work out, because working in "man-land" most of my life, I couldn't picture very many being okay with it; then again, many of the men I've worked with are bordering Neanderthal.

Michelle gave me a great big hug and told me that she was glad that I asked questions, because most don't care to and assume negative things. She's a nice person; why make negative assumptions? 

My biologically female cousin is a lesbian woman, but if you didn't know her, you'd think she's a "metro sexual" man. She's got a very pretty and feminine face, but keeps her hair buzzed and works out regularly; she's got nicer muscles than any man I've known. She wears binders up top, but she's not very busty anyways. The couple girlfriends of hers that I met were gorgeous, curvy, feminine, makeup wearing, long-haired beauties... she definitely has a type. She doesn't "identify as transgender" because she's fine with being a manly woman that's into women. I think that made sense. I suppose that's why I just don't get why people feel the need to label it further.

The thing that confused me (back then to now) is it came across that these hetero men wanted to be in a lesbian relationship. (It was what turned them on! No males whatsoever in the storylines.)

I can see where that might be confusing. The thing is... straight porn usually has some ugly ass dude with a big cock. No one wants to see some excessively hairy, obese man on top of a 20 year old hot young woman.

As a straight woman that's played in the minors for the other team, I can honestly say that a mouth is a mouth. If a person knows what they're doing... it feels good. That sounds terrible, doesn't it? I'm sorry if that sounds crude. The point is, I can appreciate the female form, but definitely enjoy a man. And while I'm tomboyish (rarely wear makeup, prefer jeans and t-shirts to dresses or skirts, working on a car or home renovation is far more stimulating than a hair salon, etc.), I really love my boobs... and the ability to have multiple "Os".

She said usually she'll date them for a while and before engaging in any sexual activity, she would tell them. I asked her if men that identified as straight men freaked out. She said that most often, surprisingly no. I was simply curious how that would work out, because working in "man-land" most of my life, I couldn't picture very many being okay with it; then again, many of the men I've worked with are bordering Neanderthal.

It can go both ways with men. There are genuine straight men who are not threatened by the 'concept' of hanging out with homosexuals and sharing some intimacies—or not. On the other hand, there are genuine straight men who will take the 'top' off of a fellow's head for coming on to them that way. They simply resent the 'concept' of anybody considering them 'trade.'

Your friend is playing with fire, in this respect.

Because as any woman can share, you don't mess with 'bruisers' the wrong way. Taking their money and 'gifts' under the wrong set of circumstances is wrong. Men are not "in it" to be used, or suckered, or made an outright fool of in public.

The reason the men do not present as being upset after the "reveal" is because in their individual case it does not matter (once or twice) or they don't want (more) trouble that freaking out will engender.

Finally, all that being said, it speaks to your friends curiosity about being accepted that she tempts fate this way. In that mode, I can understand. I have strong attraction to heterosexual - "butch-homosexual" men. Definitely more so than to feminine men who I see as friends only. Back in my hey-day, as you can imagine. . . I found love where I could and yes it was fleeting. But, I always kept it real with the other guy, and vice-versa because that guy's or guys rep/s were on the line in the community.

Community is big with heterosexual males.

I can see where that might be confusing. The thing is... straight porn usually has some ugly ass dude with a big cock. No one wants to see some excessively hairy, obese man on top of a 20 year old hot young woman.

Okay! So you just out-right threw Ron Jeremy under the bus. Hot - not. But 'package delivery' he done did that for a lifetime!

Ron Jeremy will likely never get out of prison.  nbcnews

You're describing what I find to be the human condition. We all have these "abilities" pointing inward and outward sexually. I have slept with women and privately mentally compared it to sleeping with men. I am distracted that my nether-regions makes no nevermind about contact. My mind however yearns for the 'union' or 'pairing' or 'spiritual tie' of the male consciousness.

Which by the way, I find it interesting (to say the least) that I find F to M partial transference so exciting in concept. I have no practical experience, though. Years ago, it was not even a thought. But now, wow, may be a solution to a societal problem for homosexual youth? I don't know.

Albeit, I can not say that F to M 'partials' are trying to solve the homosexual paradox (of having children and finding life-long relationships).

Your friend is playing with fire, in this respect.

Oh... I agree.

My husband is one of those men that doesn't mind being friends with gay men. The ones that get angry are the ones that have questioned their own sexuality at some point or another and were taught that they should never question such things by some other "manly man" in their lives. My husband and I honeymooned at a gay and lesbian friendly resort. We were the only straight couple there... one of the women thought he and I were just friends and that I played for their team. I'm sure that with my tomboyish ways and the fact that I had a shorter hair cut at the time, it's easy to assume. Didn't bother me one bit that she thought that... her girlfriend sure was pissed that she was flirting with me though. We had SO MUCH FUN on our honeymoon. I can't wait to be able to afford to go back again. It's Sand Castle on the Beach resort in St. Croix USVI.

You're so right!

And that makes me sad. Ron, did his best in life to bring real happiness and 'an experience' to many across the planet. Why do some of these things always end poorly. Alas, the human "condition."

The ones that get angry are the ones that have questioned their own sexuality at some point or another and were taught that they should never question such things by some other "manly man" in their lives.

Well, can I say that is a standard 'stance' taken for public policy? It is. In real time, some men find the deception itself outrageous. The flip-side would be if a transwoman dated a man only to find out that 'he' has female parts below later on - would the transwoman feel vexed at the time expended on less than a 'sure thing'? The investment in emotional connecting?

Talk about mix-messaging. In the case of the man in your friends like he is being real and upfront and well, "unchargeable."

This is the message I am sharing with Greg and Texan in here. That people in Elliot's condition must always be proper to be clear in motive, intent, and in information sharing in these types of situations ahead of time. Also, Elliott, in the words of the singing group, The Animals, and singer Nina Simone: "Oh Lord, Don't Let Me Be Misunderstood" is signalling to us/others who he is, so when some guy approaches and he won't take no for an answer-his lack of finding a warm reception won't have not been advanced unknowing.

Back 'in the day' one had to go through phycological therapy, hormone therapy and live as the sex that you were identifying as for a year before you could have surgery. 

I met a 'lesbian' couple when I was bumming in California in the mid 70's. I found out right quick that one of them was transgender, identified as male and was 'going through the change'. He was living and working as a male. When I slipped up and called him 'she', I was set 'straight' and after a couple of days of dirty looks I got it. 

That was when I started using the endearment 'darlin'. It's androgynous. 

I don't know what the process is now but I would think that one would want to start living as one's true self ASAP. 

When I slipped up and called him 'she', I was set 'straight' and after a couple of days of dirty looks I got it. 

Right and it was an accident. That's the part that bothers me. If it was a slip-up, it should be forgiven... at least the first time. I get that it's a touchy subject, but damn. When I worked in auto parts stores, don't you think it irked me to no end to have dudes constantly asking me where the guys were? I had fun with that shit. I'd tell them, "Nope, they were too stupid to handle this job." Or one time when a guy on the phone asked to speak with someone that had a beard, I said, "How do you know that I don't have one"? That guy ended up not going to anyone else after I helped him that day, because I was able to help him fix his issue and because of my smart mouth.

I get that it's a touchy subject, but damn.

I came to understand that it was a sign of disrespect that he had endured for far too long. A 'weapon' used to discriminate, demean, belittle and harm. 

If I wanted to be his friend, it was up to me to care enough to adjust my mindset and get it right. I found him to be more than worthy of the effort. 

One thing that he told me was how living as a male made him recognized 'male privilege'. How he felt safer, autonomous and empowered just because he was now outwardly recognized as male. He was a deep dude. 

I came to understand that it was a sign of disrespect that he had endured for far too long. A 'weapon' used to discriminate, demean, belittle and harm.  If I wanted to be his friend, it was up to me to care enough to adjust my mindset and get it right. I found him to be more than worthy of the effort. 

I completely understand that, but if he knew you didn't mean it that way, correcting you is fine, but anything beyond politely correcting you isn't necessary.

I completely understand that, but if he knew you didn't mean it that way, correcting you is fine, but anything beyond politely correcting you isn't necessary.

As a 17 years old smart ass, I felt honored that he gave me some time to 'grow' instead of just beating my ass. 

Ah... gotcha. I didn't realize that you were that young when that happened.

She was living her true self before the "transition". Now she is living a lie and is a fraud. 

The fight against modernity always looses.  

Loses.

Yes it does...

Who are you to state what someone else's "true self" is. How arrogant...and ignorant.

Just going my biology classes. An XX chromosome combination is a female and an XY combination is a male. That is their "true self" That is science. Why do you hate science. A "tranie" whatever outward appearance is showing a fraudulent image of what they are. 

I can see that.

But what about liberty, freedom, and "big Ass 'merican flags"? Heterosexuality is so monotonous.

How about "missionary style" alone? Is that the only safe, acceptable approach to doing the 'wild thang'? Hey! Don't look at me that way; I'm just saying!

A "tranie" whatever outward appearance is showing a fraudulent image of what they are. 

I'll ask the question again: Who are you to state what someone else's "true self" is? 

Note that neither the question or the answer has anything to do with biology. 

Mr. Jenner is still "Bruce".

[deleted]

Maybe his family has a rule about only having one turkey at the table at a time.

Not to her.   She is still biologically male (no changing that) but why deny her the ability to identify as she sees herself.   She is mentally female and biologically male.

Lotsa varieties of human beings out there.   They do not all fit into nice neat little packages.

neat little packages

You said neat little packages... BWAHAHAHAHAHA

Sorry... the 12 year old part of my brain took over for a moment.

Sorry... the 12 year old part of my brain took over for a moment.

LOL... good way to put it!

LOL    Or maybe more primal lobes?

Very well could be.

Now, what would really be a story is if one of these Hollywood "elites" come out and announce they are proud straight males or females.

Let's see if they get accolades from their "peers" for that.

My guess is probably not.

And I'm usually right.

Oh great, the joy of joining an underprivileged and under-served class just because it is there or—in need of invention. Bugsy, really? Is it a glamorous life you think Elliott is signing of with? Can it be out of a need? Is any NEED in your life free of "accolades"?  Why can't Elliott just be run of the mill straight? Plenty of status quo accolades there-so much so that mostly they don't feel commonplace.

Well Bugsy, this is what Elliott wrote: ""I love that I am trans. And I love that I am queer…To all trans people who deal with harassment, self-loathing, abuse, and the threat of violence every day: I see you," actor wrote in statement."

There it is in stark relief. Along with becoming exotic, are tragedies of harassment, self-loathing, abuse, and violence -real and verbal. How privileged is that?

However, ironically transgenders are protected by law in regard to attaining a job and keeping that job. It's illegal to discriminate against sex (including transgenders), race, sexual orientation, disability, religion, or age; however, it IS legal to discriminate against those with body art or piercings and are regularly discriminated against.

See source materials: scholar.google

I don't let my tattoos be seen and I remove my piercings when interviewing for a job; if I'm hired and find out that it's not against a workplace policy, I put those piercings back in and wear shorter sleeves again... I couldn't tell you how many times a supervisor has commented on those things later. It's completely legal to discriminate against tattoos or piercings.

Along with becoming exotic, are tragedies of harassment, self-loathing, abuse, and violence -real and verbal. How privileged is that?

Becoming "exotic", as you call it, is a choice. Coming out that way publicly is a choice. With that, unfortunately, you have to endure public opinion, and sometimes that isn't so great.

How about just not making a big deal of it, and nobody else will.....because they won't know.

But let us not discount the courage this particular declaration entails

I believe the courage originates from being a member of the Hollywood elite. He knows he will get accolades and protection from any criticism. If he was not a member, and just some Joe in America, no one would care about his "announcement", so why even do it in the first place?.

I can give respect to that.

Well, I presume you have no experience being 'the Other' so what the heaven might you know and can share remotely related to the "condition"? Sometimes, when you don't know something properly or squarely, it is good learning experience to simply listen to those caught up in it or with a lifetime of misery to share about the thing! That's all I got for you on it right now.

As for making a big deal about it - it is clear you don't know what a big deal it is (already). Elsewise, you might not be implying the Other should just STFU. Maybe Elliott is tired of STFU and wants to be loud and proud about it. What's the problem? It's a free country of ideas and stuff right? Right? RIGHT?!!!

Incidentally, just how difficult have you found it to be to share "latent heterosexual tendencies" in the United States or abroad, anyway? Has anybody ever told you to go on your way discreetly?

Elliott can't help his stardom or lack thereof. Now you are questioning his motives. Why, do you care about motive at this point? What's it to you? Elliott is not a politician, nor is he needing points for being a 'boy' or 'man.' Whatever happened to learning about compassion for the condition and 'state' of another human being?

Besides there is a 'conservative (elite) Hollywood, that will bar Elliott from participation if it elects too. Life is not a bowl of enhancements simply because one is Trans. Indeed, it can be quite lonely at times in a crowd and mix of people and world. Don't believe the hype. "Gay" is not a lifestyle despite then branding!

Incidentally, just how difficult have you found it to be to share "latent heterosexual tendencies" in the United States or abroad, anyway? Has anybody ever told you to go on your way discreetly?

I think that it's quite sad that it's far more accepted by society as a whole for two women to be in a relationship and public with their sexual orientation than it is for two men. That's something that I've never understood. 

While it's not quite the same thing... I've been told to get out of the shop and go back to where I belong [referencing the kitchen / in the home]... as recently as 2015. Now that I work for an EXTREMELY diverse, global company, it's quite different; I don't get that attitude from others anymore. Although, my former boss [woman] and coworker [woman] spoke ill of the fact that my husband was a stay at home dad for over 3 years while I worked full time.

The other people that always managed to have something negative to say about my husband staying at home were my stepdad, my stepmom, my mother in law, father in law, and once... my dad. All people in families with the women staying home.

When I asked my stepdad how my husband staying at home is any different than my mother staying at home. He told me to fuck off. When I showed that to my mother... she got pissed. Let's just say that my stepdad hasn't had anything to say about it since. My mother, despite growing up in the 50s & 60s with a mother that stayed at home, and she stayed home, understood and could relate to our situation. She understood that I had the ability to make more money to support the household and with my husband's limited skillset, he'd have to work non-stop and probably kill himself doing so. My mother is the one with limited skills. She knows how difficult it is to find a steady job that pays somewhat decently.

The others that made snide remarks and had negative opinions, never had to worry about the cost of child care, having to drive 100 miles a day [round trip] for a job, paying for school because you can't get anywhere without a degree or a journeyman's card [and now... you even have to pay for the education yourself for that!], or bad credit because of the housing market crash in 2008.

My dad has never been laid off, he worked as a maintenance man at a hospital and got his journeyman's card / education through them... paid for and then went to Ford Mo. Co. and worked for 30+ years and retire with a nice pension, health care, SS, a nice 401K that FOMOCO contributed to, and a house that's been paid off for years because while he was working, he'd "work" 6 days a week and every holiday. A holiday... he was being paid $165 per HOUR to eat breakfast and take a nap.

My father in law... very similar, but he was in the USAF during peace time and got his education in machine repair there and when he got out, got a job with FoMoCo; and while he was laid off for a few months in the early 80s, he was still able to comfortably retire from there with a nice pension, etc.

My stepdad had it a bit rougher... he lost his job with the Detroit News / Free Press in 1995; he was a hub manager. However, I was 16 and my step brothers were 22 and 23 and all of us were working full time. The child support that was coming in from my dad was paying for the groceries for the entire household and I was hardly home to even eat any of it. I started paying rent at 16 so we could have heat and electricity. He ended up working at US Steel, getting his journeyman's card as a millwright and retiring from there a few years ago. Yes, he'd struggled, but never had to pay out for child care and had "kids" that were self-sufficient, paying rent, and paying for everything we needed... I was paying for the groceries with money that was supposed to be for me since I was the only child and I was paying rent to keep heat and lights... so yes, it pissed me off that he had anything at all to say about my household.

And as for the women making snide comments... my stepmom, at one time worked full time, but as soon as she got together with my dad, she didn't have to work anymore, so she didn't. My mother in law worked part time from the age of 16-19; she's currently 77. Both women making snide comments were the ones at home, but somehow that was different.

Good Lord... I didn't mean to make my reply this long. Sorry for the rant.

It's okay. (Smile.)

I think that it's quite sad that it's far more accepted by society as a whole for two women to be in a relationship and public with their sexual orientation than it is for two men. That's something that I've never understood.

I will have to be blunt: Male to male sexual relations proceeds in ways which can/may/are disturbing and confusing to heterosexual males. This is important: There is always the standing issue and possibility of some sort of penetration, which for the 'virginal' male's orifices, plural, is a serious consideration-whether imagined or real.

As it has stood for centuries, females have had the heterosexuals males undivided attention. In this "brave new world" that male bloc of attention may develop many sub-divisions.

Mostly, at this juncture of U.S. history males prefer to keep sexual positionings relatively stoic and relatively on safe ground (for themselves).

the 'virginal' male's orifices

Until they hit 40 anyways.

Sorry... I couldn't help it. 

I suppose that's the real issue though... heterosexual white males dominating for centuries and even now, middle-aged heterosexual males in general dominate several industries and societal cultures. When the dominating "force" in society has fears [even if it's completely irrational], it sets the tone for the rest of society, because let's face it, there are far more followers than there are leaders.

Until they hit 40 anyways.

Okay, huh? What do I need to know, that I might be missing? We can be plain, it is just us grown folks in here!

Prostate exam

Oh. Yes. That.

However, ironically transgenders are protected by law in regard to attaining a job and keeping that job. It's illegal to discriminate against sex (including transgenders), race, sexual orientation, disability, religion, or age; however, it IS legal to discriminate against those with body art or piercings and are regularly discriminated against.

Why do you think that's ironic? 

That it's perfectly legal to discriminated against a person if they have tattoos or piercings and everyone else [including transgenders] it is illegal to discriminate. So, how would it go for a transgender that has tattoos and piercings? Would it be illegal to discriminate against that transgender for having tattoos and piercings for having tattoos and piercings?

But why do you view transgenders and those with tattoos as equivalent? 

I'll answer your question with this one:

Could a woman or a black person be discriminated against for having a tattoo? Hint: YES. 

In short, being a member of a protected class does not preclude an employer from refusing to hire you because you have tattoos on your face. 

I doubt that ANY of my employers since I got my first in the 80's, knew or cared that I have tattoos. Of course they are covered by clothing most of the time.

There should be no such thing as a "protected" class 

Densely crowded is the forest that has only trees in it.

Says the white guy...

What does my being white have to do with this ?

But why do you view transgenders and those with tattoos as equivalent? 

I view everyone as equal. I don't care if someone has tats, piercings, is transgender, black, white, purple, gay, straight, bi, other, liberal, democrat, republican, sprouting wings, 80 years old, female, male, other, farts rainbows, is Catholic, Wiccan, Presbyterian, has exotic pets, lives in Detroit, lives in Malibu, is a CEO, or is a janitor... everyone should be treated with respect until given valid reasons not to give that person respect. We all put our pants on one leg at a time... at least that's the saying; I realize there's exceptions... just thought I would make that clear since people here seem to nit pick every little word and make it out to be something it's not.

There was a 76 year old black janitor at a place I worked for, Wally, that was the coolest dude on the planet. He retired from GM as an engineer and didn't want to just sit around the house, so he got a job as a janitor. He played on the company's softball team and he was a fantastic softball player. I wouldn't have known all of those things without respecting the man and taking the time to chat.

I've had long conversations with my [now passed on] neighbors about their lives and learned a lot from them; they became family to us. At first Bob had been a bit rude with me... I was a young woman and he had yet to see a man at the house, but I chalked it up to him being "old school" and still greeted him with respect. I loved the fact that he shared his experiences in WWII and his baseball career and his off-season jobs. 

I've mentioned many times before that I've had some deep conversations with transgender people, including those that chose to opt for operations and those that didn't. 

See, if I don't understand something, I ask, because to me, that's the respectful thing to do. I see everyone as equal. I treat everyone as human and it's quite that simple. If someone is an asshole, I simply don't associate with them.

You told us you were bi-racial, didn't you? (Something about being a "red-bone" - yes?) Please, be clear.

Are you now or have you ever been in a protected class? Why not? Do you know what a protected class (of humans) is?

Wrong again MUVA.

Privilege. 

I view everyone as equal.

I take your word for it. 

I await your answer to CB's question.

Are you implying Dulay is a "white guy," please be clear. I'm confused.

Now then on the picture, I will just vote it up. . . and leave it at that. Because I could,. . .nevermind. (Smile.) 

Are you claiming that I called someone a racist MUVA? 

THAT is a lie. 

Oh and BTFW, I'm NOT 'white' MUVA. 

BS

Obtuse. 

Well then I suggest that you keep your day job because you fail as a comic. 

I know that you don't demand that everyone that declare their heritage post a photo so why ask me for one?

My ex's Black Creole dad was 'high, bright, damn near white' so WTF do you think that a photo proves? 

You look like you'd pass the 'brown bag test', you must be proud.

My Filipino features and skin color won't let me 'pass'. 

Doing a little projection are you? My response quite short,concise, and discribes you comment quite accurately. 

Doing a little projection are you?

No.

My response quite short, concise, and describes your comment quite accurately. 

Couldn't even come up with your own response. Oh well what more should I expect. 

Couldn't even come up with your own response. Oh well what more should I expect.

I DID come up with my own correctly spelled and grammatically correct response.  

Through bias 'rose colored glasses' no one could be. 

Interesting reading for anyone interested.

health.clevelandclinic

Interesting. I saw a program showing the differences between a gay / lesbian brain compared to same-sex straight person before. 

It kinda makes me want to know what my brain says about my weird ass.

So does this 'state' in the affirmative what drives a person sexually - the MRI lit areas of our brains under a set of circumstances?!!

Don't really care how she dresses or what she calls herself she will always and forever me female. She may wear an elaborate disguise bus she is a female none the less. The same goes for male to female trannies. Just men wearing costumes. 

Well of course she will remain biologically female (in terms of her sexual organs, physical structure, etc.)   And that includes her brain which (if one is to think this through) is one that perceives themselves as male but with the body of a female.

Now you may find that repulsive, but surely you realize that she (now he) is not playing games.   The life of someone whose mind and body are at odds (in terms of sexuality) is hardly something someone would choose.   After all, would you choose to be gay or choose to identify as a female in a male body?

This is the whole ideology of the 'perfect' United States anyway: People should be free to express themselves in a legal, lawful, manner. And the laws should be founded on principles of fairness, equality, and safety. But, working toward that ambitious aim our nation indefinitely gets trapped in the mindset that they can 'might make right' their lack of diverse thinking. Thus, locking the nation to a singular philosophy. Unfortunately one that leaves many people out!

Our best 'world' as a nation will be one where everybody who wants to lawfully exist can be their best selves. Leaving out only the 'villainous' and evildoers, who are isolated under the strictest of location. A community where we people can blossom in their fullest 'flower' of creativeness and vitality and do good as they determine and see fit.

A model country on one large all em compassing accord of diversity where people have each other's backs even in remote 'villages' and outback towns. People expressing the best of what intelligence yearns to give us.

Utopia? No. Just a thousand fold better than this shit-show we lay in from one generation to the next spoon-fed generation of prejudices and biases.

Why does she think we want to know and that we care?  Live your life the way you want. 

These labels are stupid.  If my gay son comes to me and tells me he wants to be referred to as (fill in the blank) I'm going to tell him to knock the crap off and just be (his name).   Of course I don't think I raised my son to be so stupid and fall into the current how to get attention trend.

PJ, you're missing the point. "Elliot" is publicly known as Ellen to his fans. It is even more important to come out professionally. To know where you stand with the public and future talent agents. (If you will ever work/be accepted in Hollywood again.)

These labels are stupid.

Exactly.

Elliot is a unisex name anyways. So is mine actually.