Lawsuit Arguing Pence Can Choose Trump Electors Tossed Out By Judge : NPR

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  sandy-2021492  •  4 weeks ago  •  30 comments

By:   NPR. org

Lawsuit Arguing Pence Can Choose Trump Electors Tossed Out By Judge : NPR
Rep. Louie Gohmert and other Republicans argue that the Constitution lets Vice President Pence reject Biden electors and count those for Trump. The judge says the plaintiffs have no standing to sue.

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



January 1, 20215:41 PM ET11121381_10101049977144195_4213464694167027996_o_sq-d069fb629c7ed8bd665a2edb295820d39ca0af55-s100-c85.jpeg

Matthew S. Schwartz

Updated at 9:11 p.m. ET

A federal judge has thrown out a lawsuit that challenges President-elect Joe Biden's victory, as Congress moves toward finalizing the results of the 2020 election.

The January certification of states' electoral votes, overseen by the vice president, is usually considered a formality. But a lawsuit filed last week by Rep. Louie Gohmert, R-Texas, seeks to upend the process.

In some key battleground states, groups of Republicans have baselessly declared themselves to be "alternate electors," claiming to represent the true wishes of the voters. Gohmert and the other plaintiffs — including a group of self-proclaimed electors from Arizona — argue that when confronted with competing slates of electors, the Constitution gives Vice President Mike Pence the power to choose which electors to certify.

The legal challenge, which reflected the longstanding refusal of certain Republicans to acknowledge Biden's victory, was widely seen as a long shot. Now, Judge Jeremy Kernodle in Texas has ruled that the plaintiffs don't have standing to sue. He says they haven't met the requirement that they show they've been injured by the defendant and that the relief they ask for would redress that injury.

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Politics


Congress' Role In Election Results: Here's What Happens Jan. 6


In their suit, which names the vice president as the defendant, the Republican plaintiffs argue that a 19th century law spelling out how Congress should handle the count is unconstitutional, because it directs Pence to tally the electoral votes as they've been reported by the states.

These Republicans argue that the 12th Amendment gives Pence, not the states, sole discretion to determine which among competing slates of electors may be counted.

Gohmert "alleges at most an institutional injury to the House of Representatives," the judge wrote. The other plaintiffs — the wannabe Arizona electors — "allege an injury that is not fairly traceable to" Pence.

In a court filing, Pence himself told the judge that he was the wrong person to sue. The Republicans' beef isn't with the vice president, he said, but with Congress.

"Plaintiffs object to the Senate and the House of Representatives asserting a role for themselves in determining which electoral votes may be counted — a role that these plaintiffs assert is constitutionally vested in the Vice President," Pence's attorneys wrote Thursday. "Indeed, as a matter of logic, it is those bodies against whom plaintiffs' requested relief must run."

House lawyers also asked for the suit to be dismissed, calling it a "radical departure from our constitutional procedures," and saying the proposed remedy would "authorize the Vice President to ignore the will of the Nation's voters."

Gohmert's crew pushed back Friday, criticizing the vice president for hiding behind procedural arguments, instead of dealing with the meat of the issue. Pence can conduct the Jan. 6 proceeding as he pleases, they argue, ignoring electors if he sees fit; he's not simply a "glorified envelope-opener in chief," they wrote.

Election law experts reject this position. "The Gohmert reply is breathtaking & preposterous," Ned Foley, director of the election law program at the Ohio State University, said on Twitter. "The Constitution never intended this monarchical power to disenfranchise Electoral College votes based on personal whim."

Gohmert wrote that because of "convincing evidence of voter fraud," he and 140 Republicans in the House plan to object to the counting of electors that states certified for President-elect Biden. Sen. Josh Hawley, R-Mo., has also said he will object.

But the objections are virtually guaranteed to fail, since they require a majority in both chambers.

Every court to examine the issue has found there was no compelling evidence of fraud in the presidential election.


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sandy-2021492
PhD Principal
1  seeder  sandy-2021492    4 weeks ago
Gohmert's crew pushed back Friday, criticizing the vice president for hiding behind procedural arguments, instead of dealing with the meat of the issue. Pence can conduct the Jan. 6 proceeding as he pleases, they argue, ignoring electors if he sees fit; he's not simply a "glorified envelope-opener in chief," they wrote. Election law experts reject this position. "The Gohmert reply is breathtaking & preposterous," Ned Foley, director of the election law program at the Ohio State University, said on Twitter. "The Constitution never intended this monarchical power to disenfranchise Electoral College votes based on personal whim."
 
 
 
sandy-2021492
PhD Principal
2  seeder  sandy-2021492    4 weeks ago

The judge, BTW, was nominated to his position by Trump.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
2.2  Krishna  replied to  sandy-2021492 @2    4 weeks ago

IIRC, there have been over 50 lawsuits filed by Trump and his sycophants-- trying to overturn the will of the voters.

All but one was thrown out by judges (many appointed by Trump).

The one that they won was not an import one-- its was about some minor legal detail (it in no way effected the outcome of the election)

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
PhD Principal
2.2.1  seeder  sandy-2021492  replied to  Krishna @2.2    4 weeks ago

Something like that.  I've sort of lost count.  They really seem to have no reservations about making themselves laughingstocks.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
2.2.2  Kavika   replied to  sandy-2021492 @2.2.1    4 weeks ago

I read a few days back Trump et al have lost 59 of 60 not counting this one and I belive there was another thrown out a few days ago.

I believe that they just filed another case with SCOTUS.

 
 
 
Split Personality
PhD Principal
2.3  Split Personality  replied to  sandy-2021492 @2    4 weeks ago

Yep, A Republcan star, the wife knows him well.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Masters Guide
2.4  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  sandy-2021492 @2    4 weeks ago

Trump thinks his dogs wear his collars.  He is quickly finding out differently.

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
Junior Expert
2.5  FLYNAVY1  replied to  sandy-2021492 @2    4 weeks ago

What do we do about all of these congressional republicans that are aiding in sedition?

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
PhD Principal
2.5.1  seeder  sandy-2021492  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @2.5    4 weeks ago

What I'd like is to see them prosecuted or at least censured.  But what we'll probably do is nothing.  Some might lose their seats in their next elections.  Most won't.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Masters Guide
2.5.2  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @2.5    3 weeks ago

Try em and fry em.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
3  Krishna    4 weeks ago

Gohmert is one of the stupidest people in Congress. (I was going to say the # 1 stupidest edited.png?skin=ntNewsTalkers3&v=1605899735     -- but in all fairness he has a lot of competition for that title! jrSmiley_9_smiley_image.gif )

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
4  Kavika     4 weeks ago

It's way past time to have Trump and his gang of dufuses committed. 

Gohmert has secured his title of the dumbest man in congress.

Trump has just tweeted out that the Senate run-off in Georiga is illegal and invalid. Trump tweets attack the second-ranking in the Senate, John Thune and Lindsey attack McConnell..

He would be hilarious if it wasn't so frickin' sad for the US. Talk about a banana republic.

You simply cannot make this shit up.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
4.1  Krishna  replied to  Kavika @4    4 weeks ago
Trump has just tweeted out that the Senate run-off in Georiga is illegal and invalid.

Ah-- the "Law of Unintended Consequences"!

 Trump has been ranting and raving about how the presidential election is invalid, tampered with, etc. Now he's saying similar things about the Georgia run-off.

But in that case it may have consequences that Trump won't like. Because, due to Trump's outbursts,  some Georgia Republican voters now feel elections are all crooked anyway, and their vote won't count-- so they will just stay home on Election day (This Tuesday, 1/5).

 

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Masters Guide
4.1.1  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Krishna @4.1    4 weeks ago

Let them stay home then.  When the dems take the seats, they will have no one blame but themselves. 

 
 
 
Ender
PhD Principal
5  Ender    4 weeks ago

Pence didn't want it anyway.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Masters Guide
5.1  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Ender @5    4 weeks ago

He just wants to get the hell out of Dodge.  I suggest anywhere there is year long snow.  That way he will blend in.

 
 
 
Gsquared
Freshman Principal
5.2  Gsquared  replied to  Ender @5    4 weeks ago

Pence had lawyers opposing this lawsuit.  I thought that was interesting.

Gohmert is an idiot.  He has a law degree.  An idiot with a law degree.  His lawsuit was beyond ridiculous.  

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
Junior Expert
5.3  FLYNAVY1  replied to  Ender @5    4 weeks ago

Nikki Haley is all in now for 2024......  now that all her credibility is gone.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
6  Kavika     4 weeks ago

This is quite fitting. 

135031857_1777147645782612_143667426740801067_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=2&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=i9jvVEnn6xEAX87ZTzY&_nc_ht=scontent-mia3-2.xx&oh=bf292daf8dcaeb77a525840f71a4b7b7&oe=60176468

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
PhD Principal
6.1  seeder  sandy-2021492  replied to  Kavika @6    4 weeks ago

jrSmiley_100_smiley_image.jpg

 
 
 
TᵢG
PhD Principal
7  TᵢG    4 weeks ago

Do these dolts not even understand political suicide?

media_636_447080_w1060_h400_crop.jpg

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
PhD Principal
7.1  seeder  sandy-2021492  replied to  TᵢG @7    4 weeks ago

The scary thing is, what they're doing should be political suicide, but I am not at all confident that it will have much of a negative effect on their future campaigns.

 
 
 
Gsquared
Freshman Principal
7.2  Gsquared  replied to  TᵢG @7    4 weeks ago

Gohmert is in a safe seat.  Otherwise, he wouldn't have pursued this lunacy.  He has said plenty of really stupid things before, but he has been re-elected several times.  What does that say about his constituents?

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
PhD Principal
7.2.1  seeder  sandy-2021492  replied to  Gsquared @7.2    4 weeks ago

That's what I'm getting at.  I expect he'll be elected again, if he runs.

 
 
 
Gsquared
Freshman Principal
7.2.2  Gsquared  replied to  sandy-2021492 @7.2.1    4 weeks ago

Yes, we are basically saying the same thing.  I was writing my comment and didn't see yours until after I clicked on Post Your Comment.

 
 
 
TᵢG
PhD Principal
7.2.3  TᵢG  replied to  Gsquared @7.2.2    4 weeks ago

His seat may be safe but this is bad for the R party.   What are they thinking?

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
PhD Principal
7.2.4  seeder  sandy-2021492  replied to  TᵢG @7.2.3    4 weeks ago

They're checking polls.  Quite a few Republicans still think Trump won.  Gohmert isn't worried about what Dems think.  He only has to worry about what Republicans think.

 
 
 
TᵢG
PhD Principal
7.2.5  TᵢG  replied to  sandy-2021492 @7.2.4    4 weeks ago
Quite a few Republicans still think Trump won.

Stupidity.

   jrSmiley_98_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
PhD Principal
7.2.6  seeder  sandy-2021492  replied to  TᵢG @7.2.5    4 weeks ago

Agreed.

 
 
 
Gsquared
Freshman Principal
7.2.7  Gsquared  replied to  TᵢG @7.2.3    4 weeks ago

Sandy has it right.  

 
 
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