Experts : US Cannot Reach 'Herd Immunity'

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  john-russell  •  2 weeks ago  •  110 comments

Experts : US Cannot Reach 'Herd Immunity'

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



There is consensus among scientists and public health experts that the herd immunity threshold is not attainable in the US, The New York Times reports



Reaching ‘ Herd Immunity ’ Is Unlikely in the US Widely circulating coronavirus variants & persistent hesitancy about vaccines will keep the goal out of reach. The virus is here to stay, but vaccinating the most vulnerable may be enough to restore normalcy












fcw-_5ja?format=jpg&name=small







Reaching ‘Herd Immunity’ Is Unlikely in the U.S., Experts Now Believe



Widely circulating coronavirus variants and persistent hesitancy about vaccines will keep the goal out of reach. The virus is here to stay, but vaccinating the most vulnerable may be enough to...



nytimes.com









Tags

jrDiscussion - desc
[]
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1  seeder  JohnRussell    2 weeks ago

Reaching ‘Herd Immunity’ Is Unlikely in the U.S., Experts Now Believe - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

Early in the pandemic, when vaccines for the coronavirus were still just a glimmer on the horizon, the term “herd immunity” came to signify the endgame: the point when enough Americans would be protected from the virus so we could be rid of the pathogen and reclaim our lives.

Now, more than half of adults in the United States have been inoculated with at least one dose of a vaccine. But daily vaccination rates are slipping, and there is widespread consensus among scientists and public health experts that the herd immunity threshold is not attainable — at least not in the foreseeable future, and perhaps not ever.

Instead, they are coming to the conclusion that rather than making a long-promised exit, the virus will most likely become a manageable threat that will continue to circulate in the United States for years to come, still causing hospitalizations and deaths but in much smaller numbers.

How much smaller is uncertain and depends in part on how much of the nation, and the world, becomes vaccinated and how the coronavirus evolves. It is already clear, however, that the virus is changing too quickly, new variants are spreading too easily and vaccination is proceeding too slowly for herd immunity to be within reach anytime soon.

Continued immunizations, especially for people at highest risk because of age, exposure or health status, will be crucial to limiting the severity of outbreaks, if not their frequency, experts believe.

“The virus is unlikely to go away,” said Rustom Antia, an evolutionary biologist at Emory University in Atlanta. “But we want to do all we can to check that it’s likely to become a mild infection.”

The shift in outlook presents a new challenge for public health authorities. The drive for herd immunity — by the summer, some experts once thought possible — captured the imagination of large segments of the public. To say the goal will not be attained adds another “why bother” to the list of reasons that vaccine skeptics use to avoid being inoculated.

Yet vaccinations remain the key to transforming the virus into a controllable threat, experts said.

Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, the Biden administration’s top adviser on Covid-19, acknowledged the shift in experts’ thinking.

“People were getting confused and thinking you’re never going to get the infections down until you reach this mystical level of herd immunity, whatever that number is,” he said.

“That’s why we stopped using herd immunity in the classic sense,” he added. “I’m saying: Forget that for a second. You vaccinate enough people, the infections are going to go down.”

Early on, the target herd immunity threshold was estimated to be about 60 to 70 percent of the population. Most experts, including Dr. Fauci, expected that the United States would be able to reach it once vaccines were available.

But as vaccines were developed and distribution ramped up through the winter and into the spring, estimates of the threshold began to rise. That is because the initial calculations were based on the contagiousness of the original version of the virus. The predominant variant now circulating in the United States, called B.1.1.7 and first identified in Britain, is about 60 percent more transmissible.

As a result, experts now calculate the herd immunity threshold to be at least 80 percent. If even more contagious variants develop, or if scientists find that immunized people can still transmit the virus, the calculation will have to be revised upward again.

Polls show that about 30 percent of the U.S. population is still reluctant to be vaccinated. That number is expected to improve but probably not enough. “It is theoretically possible that we could get to about 90 percent vaccination coverage, but not super likely, I would say,” said Marc Lipsitch, an epidemiologist at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health.

Though resistance to the vaccines is a main reason the United States is unlikely to reach herd immunity, it is not the only one.

Herd immunity is often described as a national target. But that is a hazy concept in a country this large.

“Disease transmission is local,” Dr. Lipsitch noted.

“If the coverage is 95 percent in the United States as a whole, but 70 percent in some small town, the virus doesn’t care,” he explained. “It will make its way around the small town.”

Uneven Willingness to Get Vaccinated Could Affect Herd Immunity

In some parts of the United States, inoculation rates may not reach the threshold needed to prevent the coronavirus from spreading easily.

map-1050.png

Estimated share of adults who would

“definitely” or “probably” get the vaccine

How insulated a particular region is from the coronavirus depends on a dizzying array of factors.

Herd immunity can fluctuate with “population crowding, human behavior, sanitation and all sorts of other things,” said Dr. David M. Morens, a virologist and senior adviser to Dr. Fauci. “The herd immunity for a wealthy neighborhood might be X, then you go into a crowded neighborhood one block away and it’s 10X.”

Given the degree of movement among regions, a small virus wave in a region with a low vaccination level can easily spill over into an area where a majority of the population is protected.

At the same time, the connectivity between countries, particularly as travel restrictions ease, emphasizes the urgency of protecting not just Americans but everyone in the world, said Natalie E. Dean, a biostatistician at the University of Florida in Gainesville. Any variants that arise in the world will eventually reach the United States, she noted.

Many parts of the world lag far behind the United States on vaccinations. Less than 2 percent of the people in India have been fully vaccinated, for example, and less than 1 percent in South Africa,   according to data compiled by The New York Times.

“We will not achieve herd immunity as a country or a state or even as a city until we have enough immunity in the population as a whole,” said Lauren Ancel Meyers, the director of the Covid-19 Modeling Consortium at the University of Texas at Austin.

What the future may hold

If the herd immunity threshold is not attainable, what matters most is the rate of hospitalizations and deaths after pandemic restrictions are relaxed, experts believe.

By focusing on vaccinating the most vulnerable, the United States has already brought those numbers down sharply. If the vaccination levels of that group continue to rise, the expectation is that over time the coronavirus may become seasonal, like the flu, and affect mostly the young and healthy.

“What we want to do at the very least is get to a point where we have just really sporadic little flare-ups,” said Carl Bergstrom, an evolutionary biologist at the University of Washington in Seattle. “That would be a very sensible target in this country where we have an excellent vaccine and the ability to deliver it.”

Over the long term — a generation or two — the goal is to transition the new coronavirus to become more like its cousins that cause common colds. That would mean the first infection is early in childhood, and subsequent infections are mild because of partial protection, even if immunity wanes.

Some unknown proportion of people with mild cases may go on to experience debilitating symptoms for weeks or months — a syndrome called “long Covid” — but they are unlikely to overwhelm the health care system.

“The vast majority of the mortality and of the stress on the health care system comes from people with a few particular conditions, and especially people who are over 60,” Dr. Lipsitch said. “If we can protect those people against severe illness and death, then we will have turned Covid from a society disrupter to a regular infectious disease.”

If communities maintain vigilant testing and tracking, it may be possible to bring the number of new cases so low that health officials can identify any new introduction of the virus and immediately stifle a potential outbreak, said Bary Pradelski, an economist at the National Center for Scientific Research in Grenoble, France. He and his colleagues described this strategy   in a paper published on Thursday   in the scientific journal The Lancet.

“Eradication is, I think, impossible at this stage,” Dr. Pradelski said. “But you want local elimination.”

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2  seeder  JohnRussell    2 weeks ago

In the very beginning , the coronavirus widespread appearance in the US should have been presented to the people as a national emergency but also long term challenge on the level of World War 2. Because Trump wanted to play down the threat in order to maintain his (narcissistic, delusional) aura of invincibility , the US dealt with the pandemic on a piecemeal basis without much national unity or purpose. Throw in right wing conspiracy theories and other associated nonsense related to the masks and "shutting down", and failure was guaranteed. In some corners it became "patriotic" to not social distance and not wear masks, and now to not get the vaccine.

The result, experts say the virus will be here, albeit at a lower level, for years. 

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Principal
2.1  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  JohnRussell @2    2 weeks ago
Trump wanted to play down the threat

In my opinion because trump didn't want to have to do what was needed to curb the spread during HIS re-election.

Closing and /or restricting businesses. 

Ironically his refusal to deal responsibly with the virus in the beginning probably cost him the election. 

trump trumped trump out of office

As I long predicted he would. I am not one bit surprised I always said "Let trump have plenty of rope and the man would eventually hang himself".

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Principal
2.2  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  JohnRussell @2    2 weeks ago

Trump was never interested in herd immunity, he was only interested in promoting herd mentality.  He even said so.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3  seeder  JohnRussell    2 weeks ago
Y3SOqXeB_bigger.jpg
A Shady Dame From Seville
@SorayaMcDonald
·
2h
Here in America you see, we like our pandemics like we like our wars: miserable and endless for no good reason
 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  JohnRussell @3    2 weeks ago

Kevin
@Skywatcher1600
·
2m
the US will not reach herd immunity. because it has officially sunk to the levels of an underdeveloped 3rd world nation. not due to catastrophe or lack of ability to go beyond, but due to the sheer stupidity and selfishness of its populace.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
3.1.1  Gordy327  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1    2 weeks ago

This is true. As I've said before, never underestimate the stupidity of the American people. 

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
Senior Participates
3.1.2  igknorantzrulz  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1    2 weeks ago
not due to catastrophe or lack of ability to go beyond, but due to the sheer stupidity and selfishness of its populace.

ignorance rules followed

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Masters Guide
4  Greg Jones    2 weeks ago

Biden and his fellow Dems aren't helping a bit to improve the situation.

Their parading around incessantly signaling their virtue by wearing masks when not necessary after having been fully vaccinated is just plain stupid. The obvious optics implies they don't believe the shots work.

Unnecessary "shutting down" by Dem governors and mayors resulted in killing the economy and millions of lost jobs...many of them permanently gone

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Greg Jones @4    2 weeks ago

Face reality Greg. If Trump had presented this pandemic to his supporters as a national challenge and used "Make America Covid Free Again" as a rallying cry, we would have seen things go much much smoother. We would have had people with the red Trump hats on lining up to be first to get the vaccine. Because he is a narcissistic ignoramus we instead got fistfights in grocery stores where Trump fans refused to wear masks because "freedom" and now they refuse to be vaccinated for the same reason. 

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Masters Guide
4.1.1  Greg Jones  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1    2 weeks ago
Face reality Greg. If Trump had presented this pandemic to his supporters as a national challenge and used "Make America Covid Free Again" as a rallying cry, we would have seen things go much much smoother.
You're making assumptions that have no basis in reality. Even the "experts" were giving conflicting information.
 
 
 
r.t..b...
Masters Participates
4.1.2  r.t..b...  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1    2 weeks ago

The disconnect between ‘freedom’ and responsibility has never been more apparent.

For a party that preaches personal responsibility in any number of issues, their inability to understand that that responsibility does not happen in a vacuum reflects just another example of their self serving agenda.

How can anyone make the wearing of a mask or the taking of a vaccine, in the face of this pandemic, a political issue?

Only the most callous. 

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
Professor Expert
4.1.3  FLYNAVY1  replied to  Greg Jones @4.1.1    2 weeks ago

Trump fucking blew it.....! 

We wouldn't have all of this vaccine hesitancy in red states if the fat ass had come out promoting mask wearing as a patriotic duty....

Instead he came out in verbal support of those that were defiant in mask wearing..... Death count be damned!    

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Principal
4.1.4  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  FLYNAVY1 @4.1.3    2 weeks ago

trump put his re-election before the american people lifes. And some died as a result. 

IMO: That alone should disqualify trump from ever holding another public office again for as long as he lives.

 
 
 
Kathleen
PhD Principal
4.1.5  Kathleen  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @4.1.3    2 weeks ago

No, you are blaming Trump and it is because there is mistrust in the vaccines. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Expert
4.1.6  Tacos!  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1    2 weeks ago
If Trump had presented this pandemic to his supporters as a national challenge and used "Make America Covid Free Again" as a rallying cry, we would have seen things go much much smoother.

But he did. Not in those words, exactly, but Trump could not have been prouder of his Operation Warp Speed. Trump spent months bragging about the vaccine and how his great plan helped to make it a reality faster than anyone could have ever dreamed and so on. We’ve never seen anything like it!

I’m paraphrasing, of course.

If anything, it was Democrats who went around hinting that the vaccine might be dangerous because Trump was allegedly pushing so hard to get it done by the election that he would force the FDA to approve a useless or dangerous vaccine.The idea that any of his supporters are now resisting getting vaccinated is therefore baffling to me, but it is a madness of their own making. A real Trump supporter should be crowing about getting the Trump vaccine. Frankly, I’m amazed any far left Democrats get vaccinated.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Participates
4.1.7  Sean Treacy  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @4.1.3    2 weeks ago
ine hesitancy in red states if the fat ass had come out promoting mask wearing as a patriotic dut

By all means, explain how not promoting mask wearing somehow causes vaccine hesitancy.  You realize  masks and vaccines are different things, right? Good luck connecting those dots.

While your at it, explain how the Democratic ticket  for President casting doubt on the safety of the vaccines didn't cause vaccine hesitancy, but Trump not being sufficiently pro-mask did. 

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
4.1.8  CB   replied to  Greg Jones @4.1.1    2 weeks ago

A lot of good money and wealth will do if one can't breath sufficiently. I will continue to wear my masks, plural. Damn anybody with idiotic things to say about it.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
4.1.9  CB   replied to  FLYNAVY1 @4.1.3    2 weeks ago

Blame the idiots listening to one stupid man who is a nobody! They don't get a pass for being stupid, and more to the point, they have a level of responsibility to themselves, their families, and the larger community in which they dwell to not be so damn stupid.

No passes for ignorant, selfish people - conservative, liberal, and/or progressive! They all make me tired!

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
4.1.10  CB   replied to  Tacos! @4.1.6    2 weeks ago

Because the vaccines of themselves never were the problem. The duplicitous LIAR-IN-CHIEF Donald J. Trump (who is still pushing a most tortured Big Lie") into the political stream even today was not trustworthy then and is not so now.  Trump needed to go, because he does not inspire confidence in people not devoted to this cause (of lying and promoting his cause alone above all other causes).

Why can't some people see this creepy, man for the pathetic louse he puts on display every day?

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Masters Guide
4.1.11  Greg Jones  replied to  CB @4.1.10    2 weeks ago

Biden is current prez, not Trump.

What's Biden doing now to inspire confidence in the vaccines?

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Participates
4.1.12  Sean Treacy  replied to  Greg Jones @4.1.11    2 weeks ago
What's Biden doing now to inspire confidence in the vaccines?

I'd love for someone to explain how Biden ignoring the CDC and wearing masks outside after being fully vaccinated will inspire confidence that the vaccines work. 

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
4.1.13  CB   replied to  Greg Jones @4.1.11    2 weeks ago

What's Biden supposed to do, take EXTRA doses of vaccine to "inspire" the public who won't get off their asses and help society? I think not! That's why Biden wears his mask still (as I do) after vaccination. So much bull patty out and about. So much virus (and its variants) still floating out of stupid mouths and noses into the 'air.'

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
4.1.14  CB   replied to  Sean Treacy @4.1.12    2 weeks ago

Biden, by wearing a mask at this point, is not trying to inspire anybody. He is elderly and he is trying to stay healthy. Because the science on this virus is not complete. We can know this, because we know vaccines won't protect us 100 percent. And all it takes is one "buffoon" to spread breath, talk, sneeze, or cough into the 'poo' and infect somebody. (Mildly or severely.)

As for the new CDC guidelines, well I get it. Since we have all these opposition naysayers out and about (on television and in communities), the CDC has to negotiate with obstructionists who have influential public platforms, and the crisis is 'looking up' well some loosening of the regulations can be positive. (It's like opening a window on a cold sunny day to let the outside air into a sick patient's room for disinfecting.)

It does not follow that all commonsense and caution should be casted aside.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
4.1.15  CB   replied to  Sean Treacy @4.1.12    2 weeks ago

One more thing. As it turns out: Ask a physician (as I have done) and you will discover that many/must of them were vaccinated early on in December 2020 and coming forward - and, to a man or woman when you enter a healthcare 'arena' each one still is protected by facial masking or doubly so.

How come, you think Sean?

 
 
 
Duck Hawk
Freshman Silent
4.1.16  Duck Hawk  replied to  Kathleen @4.1.5    2 weeks ago

Well maybe if Trump had gotten behind the vaccines instead of lying about them there would be less hesitancy. 

Maybe if Trump had put the welfare of  Americans First, not his personal agenda, we might have beaten this virus. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.1.17  Tessylo  replied to  Greg Jones @4.1.1    2 weeks ago
You're making assumptions that have no basis in reality.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.1.18  Tessylo  replied to  Kathleen @4.1.5    2 weeks ago
"No, you are blaming Trump and it is because there is mistrust in the vaccines."

Because of trumpturd.  

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.1.19  Tessylo  replied to  Tacos! @4.1.6    2 weeks ago

But he did. Not in those words, exactly, but Trump could not have been prouder of his Operation Warp Speed. Trump spent months bragging about the vaccine and how his great plan helped to make it a reality faster than anyone could have ever dreamed and so on. We’ve never seen anything like it!

I’m paraphrasing, of course.

If anything, it was Democrats who went around hinting that the vaccine might be dangerous because Trump was allegedly pushing so hard to get it done by the election that he would force the FDA to approve a useless or dangerous vaccine.The idea that any of his supporters are now resisting getting vaccinated is therefore baffling to me, but it is a madness of their own making. A real Trump supporter should be crowing about getting the Trump vaccine. Frankly, I’m amazed any far left Democrats get vaccinated.

But he didn't

What a pile of shit.  Did you just make it up?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4.1.20  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @4.1.18    2 weeks ago

how convenient that Democrats have found the sole reason for everything bad in the world.

oh, btw. /s

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Participates
4.1.21  Sean Treacy  replied to  CB @4.1.14    2 weeks ago
Biden, by wearing a mask at this point, is not trying to inspire anybody

But Trump was supposed to wear a mask to inspire people. Isn't that the story? 

e is elderly and he is trying to stay healthy. 

By ignoring the CDC? He doesn't think his CDC knows what it's talking about?  Or doesn't he understand risk and is not mentally sharp enough to be President? 

t does not follow that all commonsense and caution should be casted aside.

So  you believe Biden is telling the American people that the CDC has thrown commonsense and caution out the window. 

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
4.1.22  CB   replied to  Sean Treacy @4.1.21    2 weeks ago
As for the new CDC guidelines, well I get it. Since we have all these opposition naysayers out and about (on television and in communities), the CDC has to negotiate with obstructionists who have influential public platforms, and the crisis is 'looking up' well some loosening of the regulations can be positive. (It's like opening a window on a cold sunny day to let the outside air into a sick patient's room for disinfecting.)

You selectively left this portion of my comment out.That's telling and its tiresome. Growth and development, please.

The CDC has its "economy of rationales," I am sure . However, you will observe first responders and healthcare workers are not ditching masks when in public for themselves. Just sayin': be cautious with your health, it's the only body you have.

 
 
 
Kathleen
PhD Principal
5  Kathleen    2 weeks ago

The problem is some refuse to get vaccinated. Putting a warning label for rare blood clots on the Johnson and Johnson vaccine would have been fine. Pausing it was a huge mistake. All that did was scare people. So, now you have people that refuse to get any vaccine. There are now reports of people thinking they are having a side effect and its just anxiety causing the symptoms. It put distrust in these vaccines. 

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
Professor Expert
5.1  FLYNAVY1  replied to  Kathleen @5    2 weeks ago

This goes way back before vaccines Kathleen.  This started with the anti-maskers that the previous administration came out in support of. 

 
 
 
Kathleen
PhD Principal
5.1.1  Kathleen  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @5.1    2 weeks ago

Masks alone will not stop this, but if 90% of the population gets vaccinated it might. 

It comes down to how many people are going to get the vaccine now. 

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
5.1.2  CB   replied to  Kathleen @5.1.1    2 weeks ago

Well, I suggest these buffoons, and I have a few in my own family who are waffling or saying no too, get with the program! Because we could look like India at some point. And I have no intentions of being made sick just for sick sake!

Oh and by the way, not doing all we can as a nation to get rid of the virus and its variants, means we will wear masks longer and have color coded tiers longer, closes businesses and schools longer,  and have struggling hospital care systems longer.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
5.1.3  Gordy327  replied to  Kathleen @5.1.1    2 weeks ago

Vaccinations are the best way to achieve herd immunity. Unfortunately,  there are those who are anti-vaccers or refuse to get the vaccine or don't care if they don't. Such individuals  (including those who fight or refuse proper precautions) are the problem and the reason why we cannot beat covid.

 
 
 
JaneDoe
Sophomore Silent
5.1.4  JaneDoe  replied to  Kathleen @5.1.1    2 weeks ago
but if 90% of the population gets vaccinated

That is something I have been wondering about. What percent of our population is 16 and under and can’t even be vaccinated at this time? I can’t find the number, everywhere I look it lumps 18 and below. Does anyone here know?

 
 
 
MsAubrey (aka Ahyoka)
Sophomore Principal
5.1.5  MsAubrey (aka Ahyoka)  replied to  JaneDoe @5.1.4    2 weeks ago

I have not found anyplace in the Detroit Metro area that will vaccinate those under 18.

 
 
 
MsAubrey (aka Ahyoka)
Sophomore Principal
5.1.6  MsAubrey (aka Ahyoka)  replied to  JaneDoe @5.1.4    2 weeks ago
74.2 million
In the 2010 Census, the number of people under age 18 was   74.2 million   (24.0 percent of the total population). The younger working-age population, ages 18 to 44, represented 112.8 million persons (36.5 percent). The older working-age population, ages 45 to 64, made up 81.5 million persons (26.4 percent).
 
 
 
Kathleen
PhD Principal
5.1.7  Kathleen  replied to  CB @5.1.2    2 weeks ago

Well... I do agree with wearing a mask still, because there are still a lot of people not vaccinated yet. Plus I still have a problem with large gatherings. 

It would be nice if people would consider getting the vaccine or we will never be done with this shit.

 
 
 
Kathleen
PhD Principal
5.1.8  Kathleen  replied to  Gordy327 @5.1.3    2 weeks ago

Agreed.

 
 
 
Kathleen
PhD Principal
5.1.9  Kathleen  replied to  JaneDoe @5.1.4    2 weeks ago

That’s a good question... the children need to be vaccinated too. 

 
 
 
MsAubrey (aka Ahyoka)
Sophomore Principal
5.1.10  MsAubrey (aka Ahyoka)  replied to  Kathleen @5.1.9    2 weeks ago

The US has a population of those under 18 at about 20% give or take a couple percent.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Masters Guide
5.1.11  Greg Jones  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @5.1    2 weeks ago
This started with the anti-maskers that the previous administration came out in support of. 

That's a total lie

 
 
 
JaneDoe
Sophomore Silent
5.1.12  JaneDoe  replied to  MsAubrey (aka Ahyoka) @5.1.5    2 weeks ago

There is a vaccination site a mile from my house that administers the Pfizer vaccine to anyone 16 and above. The last 2 weeks or so they have been taking walk ins. I’m sorry to hear it is still hard to come by in your state. Hopefully that will change soon.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
5.1.13  CB   replied to  Kathleen @5.1.7    2 weeks ago

I would be so happy if we could get our leaders on one accord so we without access to high quality facts and analyses can at least take comfort in their agreement to act on all our behalf. Meaningless political posturing is tedious, time-consuming, and worse.

 
 
 
Kathleen
PhD Principal
5.1.14  Kathleen  replied to  CB @5.1.13    2 weeks ago

I think it is coming down to our own responsibility. Why wait for someone to tell you to do something?

Think for yourself, that’s what I have been doing all along.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
5.1.15  CB   replied to  Kathleen @5.1.14    2 weeks ago

We do think for ourselves, ultimately. However, we have leaders for a reason. They have the access to our best for a reason (to protect and to serve us all). If that is not the case, then they can all just go home and stay home and we can all fend for ourselves in our local communities. Stop paying people to be non-productive or ineffective leaders.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
5.1.16  CB   replied to  Kathleen @5.1.14    2 weeks ago

One more thing on this: When are we as a country going to set politics aside and stand up for front-line workers, emergency room nurses, care-providers, doctors, researchers, and funeral directors? These people do the 'do,' care for sick and dying, and store our dead!

When do they get proper consideration during a pandemic? How are our pandemic workers supposed to get ready for the next pandemic or epidemic (inside this nation) if they can't get some slack, down-time, and "preparedness" availability?

These lazy, candied-ass politicians/leaders can make us all sick (again)! And I am just 'sick and tired of being sick and tired of their bull-patty,' which is not making it better.

 
 
 
Kathleen
PhD Principal
5.1.17  Kathleen  replied to  CB @5.1.16    2 weeks ago

I agree with you, politicians are greedy and self centered and full of hot air. We need to think of all people. 

Unfortunately they don’t. That’s why I don’t trust them.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
5.1.18  CB   replied to  Kathleen @5.1.17    2 weeks ago

We need to think about people. Emphatically.

Our nation is in "the deep-end" of this pandemic pool, and some of our leaders are asking us to swim with 'extra-ordinary baggage' attached to every last one of us!

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
5.1.19  Tessylo  replied to  JaneDoe @5.1.4    2 weeks ago

They're starting trials now with children under 16 and the Co-Vid vaccine.  Now anyone 16 and up can get vaccinated.  

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
Professor Expert
5.1.20  FLYNAVY1  replied to  Greg Jones @5.1.11    2 weeks ago

Just more proof MAGAs have both bad memories, and severe cases of denial.  

 
 
 
MsAubrey (aka Ahyoka)
Sophomore Principal
5.2  MsAubrey (aka Ahyoka)  replied to  Kathleen @5    2 weeks ago

Personally, I would rather have the J&J; however, I'm not at risk for clotting either. I have low BP, good cholesterol, not on birth control and good genetics. My husband is the opposite; high BP, high cholesterol, triglycerides through the roof and genetics predisposing him to clotting. I can't find anyone locally with J&J available. Moderna seems to be the most readily available. However, we're waiting until my daughter is done with school... if any of us got symptoms from the vaccine, she would have to miss school, thus missing finals and I wouldn't want her to miss out on her graduating on time. We're not really at risk anyways... I don't go anywhere, my son schools from home, and my husband works with one guy that is in a similar situation as we are; wife working from home, only one kid going into school [she is in school with my daughter too]. All of the people over 60 in my family have been vaccinated already too. Hell, they were the ones taking risks initially when we were getting our groceries delivered, they were going into the stores. They were getting take out long before I was comfortable doing so. Our situation is probably not typical, but that's why I'm not making any judgements of those making specific choices. Yes, some people are downright morons, but I can't say that's the case with all of them either.

 
 
 
Kathleen
PhD Principal
5.2.1  Kathleen  replied to  MsAubrey (aka Ahyoka) @5.2    2 weeks ago

It’s a personal choice. We all got the Johnson and Johnson almost a month ago and doing fine. Some people may even be allergic to them, so there are reasons for some folks.  I do feel better about going out now. I still wear my mask, but I am more at ease. Nothing is exact, I look at it like many medications have side effects and serious ones too. 

I guess you have to think about what is best for your situation. 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Participates
5.3  Sean Treacy  replied to  Kathleen @5    2 weeks ago
The problem is some refuse to get vaccinated. Putting a warning label for rare blood clots on the Johnson and Johnson vaccine would have been fine. Pausing it was a huge mistake. All that did was scare people.

100%. Despite some people here bizarrely claiming the pause would make people more confident in vaccines.  

 
 
 
Kathleen
PhD Principal
5.3.1  Kathleen  replied to  Sean Treacy @5.3    2 weeks ago

No... I think it did the opposite. Denmark will not use it now. They said it could set them back Four weeks. So how many people will die in four weeks from Covid during that time... Do the math.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Principal
5.4  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Kathleen @5    2 weeks ago

Pausing it was a huge mistake.

America is an ultra litigious country.  Even the goal of stamping out a deadly virus isn’t immune to the dream of getting a massive payday by suing a major pharmaceutical company with the help of a bottomless supply of unscrupulous lawyers.  If an earth ending meteorite was hurtling towards the planet, there’d be a line of environmentalist dipshits clamoring to join a lawsuit against whatever defense contractor comes up with a plan to launch a super rocket to destroy it.  Maybe we deserve a meteor.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
5.4.1  Tessylo  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @5.4    2 weeks ago

J&J has started up their vaccines again.  Some folks don't care who manufactured it, they want the vaccine.  

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Masters Guide
6  Greg Jones    2 weeks ago

So our local lefties are trying to cast all blame on the previous occupant, while absolving Biden of all responsibility

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
6.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Greg Jones @6    2 weeks ago

You think Biden deserves responsibility, for the refusal of people to vaccinated, because he wears a mask outdoors? 

Uh.......ok. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Expert
6.1.1  Tacos!  replied to  JohnRussell @6.1    2 weeks ago
You think Biden deserves responsibility, for the refusal of people to vaccinated, because he wears a mask outdoors?

It contributes to the problem, yes. It’s obviously not the only reason people don’t get vaccinated. 

By the way, he also contributed to the problem by being part of the group that led people to believe a vaccine might be rushed to the public before it was ready and safe.

There is plenty of responsibility to go around, and yes, Biden shares some of that responsibility.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
6.1.2  CB   replied to  Tacos! @6.1.1    2 weeks ago

There is no accounting for the 'survival' instincts of some people who duck, cover, and dodge whether than just getting with the program!  Well, the solution is more and more people with long-term chronic health issues and oh yeah: "Pushing up daisies."

 
 
 
Ender
PhD Principal
6.1.3  Ender  replied to  Tacos! @6.1.1    2 weeks ago

When we have mostly republicans that will not get a vax, that says all that needs to be said.

 
 
 
MsAubrey (aka Ahyoka)
Sophomore Principal
6.1.4  MsAubrey (aka Ahyoka)  replied to  CB @6.1.2    2 weeks ago
There is no accounting for the 'survival' instincts of some people who duck, cover, and dodge whether than just getting with the program!

That can be applied in many ways and in many situations in this world.

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Expert
6.1.5  Tacos!  replied to  Ender @6.1.3    2 weeks ago
When we have mostly republicans that will not get a vax, that says all that needs to be said

If thinking and analysis are not desired, I guess you’re right. For me, it doesn’t say anything about why they are resisting and it makes no connection to Trump. I think I have given a reason why Republicans should be enthusiastic about the vaccine. If you don’t want to face those facts, that’s your business, but there is clearly more to be said by people willing to think outside a partisan box.

 
 
 
Ender
PhD Principal
6.1.6  Ender  replied to  Tacos! @6.1.5    2 weeks ago

No you didn't, it was mostly blaming Democrats and saying they should take blame.

there is clearly more to be said by people willing to think outside a partisan box

So when we have mostly republican men that refuse the vac it is others that need to look beyond a partisan box?...

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Masters Guide
6.1.7  Greg Jones  replied to  Ender @6.1.3    2 weeks ago
When we have mostly republicans that will not get a vax, that says all that needs to be said.

Got any sources to support that?

Anti-vaxxers would more likely to be liberal

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
6.1.8  CB   replied to  MsAubrey (aka Ahyoka) @6.1.4    2 weeks ago

I don't follow your comment's meaning. Please, elaborate.

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Expert
6.1.9  Tacos!  replied to  Ender @6.1.6    2 weeks ago
it was mostly blaming Democrats and saying they should take blame

I’m not “mostly” blaming anyone. I responded to a comment about Biden deserving responsibility. I made clear that he was part of the problem. If you’re unwilling to entertain the idea that the party that you support - or someone in it - could be responsible in any way, then yeah, that sounds like you’re unwilling to think outside a partisan box.

 
 
 
Duck Hawk
Freshman Silent
6.1.10  Duck Hawk  replied to  Greg Jones @6.1.7    2 weeks ago

All the ones I know here in CO are christian conservatives. I don't know ANY liberal anti-vaxers.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
6.1.11  Tessylo  replied to  Tacos! @6.1.1    2 weeks ago
"By the way, he also contributed to the problem by being part of the group that led people to believe a vaccine might be rushed to the public before it was ready and safe."

No he didn't

"There is plenty of responsibility to go around, and yes, Biden shares some of that responsibility."

No he doesn't

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
6.1.12  Tessylo  replied to  Ender @6.1.3    2 weeks ago
"When we have mostly republicans that will not get a vax, that says all that needs to be said."

Exactly.  They're the only ones saying that they won't and encouraging others not to.

The blame falls solely on the gop/republicans denial of the truth.  

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
6.1.13  Tessylo  replied to  Ender @6.1.6    2 weeks ago
"No you didn't, it was mostly blaming Democrats and saying they should take blame."
"there is clearly more to be said by people willing to think outside a partisan box"

"So when we have mostly republican men that refuse the vac it is others that need to look beyond a partisan box?..."

jrSmiley_80_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
6.1.14  Tessylo  replied to  Duck Hawk @6.1.10    2 weeks ago
"I don't know ANY liberal anti-vaxers."

No such thing.

We have a very strong bias towards the truth and reality.  

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
6.1.15  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @6.1.14    2 weeks ago

who told you the truth is biased, and why would you believe them???

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
6.1.16  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @6.1.13    2 weeks ago

can you post your source for that claim?

 
 
 
Ender
PhD Principal
6.1.17  Ender  replied to  Tessylo @6.1.12    2 weeks ago

Yep. It was republicans also complaining and refusing to wear masks.

 
 
 
JumpDrive
Freshman Silent
6.2  JumpDrive  replied to  Greg Jones @6    2 weeks ago
So our local lefties are trying to cast all blame on the previous occupant, while absolving Biden of all responsibility

Trump deserves all the blame. He’s the one who knew the virus was much more contagious and fatal than the flu, but continued to lie about it for another 5 weeks while NY & NJ were massively infected from Europe. He’s the one who refused to take coordinating responsibility for the virus and pushed it to the states. He’s the one who then undermined the states by activating his moronic base with ’free xxx’ tweets. He the one who politicized mask wearing resulting in his obsequious base of morons babbling about The Constitution rather than limited the spread of the virus. He’s the one who purposely slowed down testing to hide the virus’s progress. The only thing he did to help was operation warp speed, likely because the ignorant infant thought the name was cool. The Lancet, one of the oldest medical journals, studied the Trump Administration’s handling of the pandemic and concluded that about 40% of the deaths were avoidable. He’s also the one who got vaccinated in January, but kept it secret.

Your complaint about Biden is that he continues to wear a mask and this causes people to not want to be vaccinated or something. So weak. The disease is still spreading and mutating into variants that are less susceptible to the vaccine. So now the professionals are starting to believe we will never achieve herd immunity. The awesome legacy of Trump’s epic unfitness as President.

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Expert
7  Tacos!    2 weeks ago

Looks like people are trying to move the goalposts again.

It seems to me that eventually, the unvaccinated people will get sick anyway. Assuming they survive, that will fill in the gaps for herd immunity the old fashioned way. I can tell you this: I’m not going to spend the rest of my life masking and social distancing. I did my part. I did those things when it was necessary, and then I got vaccinated. I’m not going to live pandemic-style because of some assholes who won’t do the obviously right thing.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
7.1  CB   replied to  Tacos! @7    2 weeks ago
I’m not going to live pandemic-style because of some assholes who won’t do the obviously right thing.

Take your 50/50 chances then. Get ahead of the science and all we can do is wish you well. (Even as we wish ourselves with the science underway.)

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Expert
7.1.1  Tacos!  replied to  CB @7.1    2 weeks ago
Take your 50/50 chances then.

What 50/50 chance are you talking about?

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
7.1.2  CB   replied to  Tacos! @7.1.1    2 weeks ago

Good question! It seems I wrote that a bit distracted on a project this AM. Loosely, the phrase "50/50" applies as me and others vaccinated are still at some risk of contacting this virus even when it can be: 1) asymptomatic.  2) mildly symptomatic. 3) in rare occasions affected by some co-morbidity making it "toxic" and grave to a vaccinated person.

The scientists and medical professionals are still processing and analyzing incoming data. We do not have the "All Clear."  As a result, these stubborn, ridiculously hard-headed people who won't "help" with ridding the country of its pandemic germ warfare leaves us all vulnerable and needing to exercise continuous cautions. (Like Masks).

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Expert
7.1.3  Tacos!  replied to  CB @7.1.2    2 weeks ago
me and others vaccinated are still at some risk of contacting this virus

Of course we are, but it’s not 50/50 CB! This is a kind of misinformation you’re spreading and it contributes to the problem we have getting people vaccinated. If they think it’s even money that they will get sick anyway, why would anyone get vaccinated?

The facts are that the two major vaccines available are over 90% effective at blocking the virus, and even if you do get sick, it won’t put you in the ICU or kill you like it otherwise might. It also greatly reduces your ability to spread the virus. These are facts that we know already. That’s the message we need to be sharing - not that it’s 50/50.

needing to exercise continuous cautions. (Like Masks)

What could be more motivating to people than showing them that they don’t have to worry about masking and distancing if they’re fully vaccinated - and especially so if the people around them are, too? Even the CDC is finally coming around and telling people they don’t have to mask up outside or inside if it’s with other vaccinated people.

Everything we have always known about vaccines is working the same with this vaccine. It will keep almost everyone from getting sick. If they do get sick, it won’t be that bad, and they’re unlikely to spread the virus.

This is not new science, but spokespeople keep acting like they don’t know how vaccines work. It’s like they don’t want to say “take the masks off” until no one on Planet Earth is sick and Covid goes the way of smallpox. It’s unnecessarily extreme and it drives skepticism about the vaccines.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
7.1.4  CB   replied to  Tacos! @7.1.3    2 weeks ago
Of course we are, but it’s not 50/50 CB! This is a kind of misinformation you’re spreading and it contributes to the problem we have getting people vaccinated. If they think it’s even money that they will get sick anyway, why would anyone get vaccinated?

This is what I started @7.1.2 with:

Good question! It seems I wrote that a bit distracted on a project this AM. Loosely, the phrase "50/50" applies as me and others vaccinated are still at some risk of contacting this virus even when it can be: 1) asymptomatic.  2) mildly symptomatic. 3) in rare occasions affected by some co-morbidity making it "toxic" and grave to a vaccinated person.

Okay, then don't use it. As for accusing me of misinformation, please. You know damn well in context I am referring to vaccinated people mixing together with un-vaccinated people in unmasked settings for long stretches of time, while we remain still unclear on everything about this still novel coronavirus, its variants, and vaccine efficacy. Look at some of my other comments spread across this comment section.

Use it or lose it. I don't intend to be the distraction today!

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
7.1.5  CB   replied to  Tacos! @7.1.3    2 weeks ago
What could be more motivating to people than showing them that they don’t have to worry about masking and distancing if they’re fully vaccinated - and especially so if the people around them are, too? Even the CDC is finally coming around and telling people they don’t have to mask up outside or inside if it’s with other vaccinated people.

And what about it? "Fully vaccinated" is going to be one "strange beast" for the present and beyond. Why? Because we all know people play lying games!

There is a "strangeness" already occurring amongst vaccinated people. . . many of them are only partially vaccinated and not going back for the second shot. Guess what? These people will LIE and tell people (innocently or flat-out) they are vaccinated—without the fine distinction.

That's messed up! How will you or I or anybody argue with some lying 'yahoo' about their state of vaccination (partial lack/or complete lack) thereof?

You will not.

Don't trust people. People are going to lie to you about being vaccinated.

And one more strangeness: There is a developing story about FAKE vaccination cards (for those who want to foster their lie more thoroughly) being sold in our country.

There are times in life when it pays 'bigly' to lag behind the "trending" activity of the day. I think this is a case where being a laggard is just plain appropriate.

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Expert
7.1.6  Tacos!  replied to  CB @7.1.4    2 weeks ago

Sorry, but with so much genuine misinformation floating around, I think it’s actually kind of important to stress the 90+% efficacy of these vaccines. That’s phenomenal! Getting vaccinated should not even be a hard choice for 99+% of people. 

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
7.1.7  CB   replied to  Tacos! @7.1.3    2 weeks ago
This is not new science, but spokespeople keep acting like they don’t know how vaccines work. It’s like they don’t want to say “take the masks off” until no one on Planet Earth is sick and Covid goes the way of smallpox. It’s unnecessarily extreme and it drives skepticism about the vaccines

I assume with all this pushback you're presenting, that you already have digged mask wearing, yes? No more mask wearing for you?

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Expert
7.1.8  Tacos!  replied to  CB @7.1.5    2 weeks ago
Because we all know people play lying games!

The heck with that! I say “Bring on the Vaccine Passports!” And I’ll restrict the rights of people who won’t get it. Seriously. I’m ready to twist some arms. 

I hear a lot about how great Biden is doing with vaccines, but I don’t see it. Getting vaccines to people who want it was the easy part. That was just a matter of time. You want to impress me? Get the holdouts vaccinated and then I’ll think government has done something truly useful.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
7.1.9  CB   replied to  Tacos! @7.1.6    2 weeks ago

Well you aint' getting misinformation from me to be clear. The vaccines are fine! Stubborn 'yahoos' are not fine. And we are going to be paying for it according to the expert with "impaired herd immunity" in my opinion.  On the other-hand, it just might be the spank on the horse's rear that antivaxxers need to hear to get their sorry asses up and about helping out the lot of us.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
7.1.10  CB   replied to  Tacos! @7.1.8    2 weeks ago

Maybe Biden can get cooperative help from old "standalone" president Donald J. Trump to assist? I mean really! That dude is a real piece of work. Some conservatives love him even as he screws them over royally on this one. How about y'all get Donald to 'take one for the team'? Do a promotional vaccination video with other former presidents (it would be a first for him).

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Expert
7.1.11  Tacos!  replied to  CB @7.1.7    2 weeks ago
I assume with all this pushback you're presenting, that you already have digged mask wearing, yes? No more mask wearing for you?

Do you mean “ditched?” No, I haven’t ditched it yet. I’m not fully protected until next Monday. I only got shot number 2 a week ago. And as long as the businesses I go into still require it, I won’t have a choice. That’s fine for now, but if people don’t get their shit together and get vaccinated, I’m not going to keep sacrificing because of them. If I have to go all ‘aggressive activist’ to help get people vaccinated, I will. Anti-vax morons are not going to be allowed to fuck it up for everyone else.

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Expert
7.1.12  Tacos!  replied to  CB @7.1.10    2 weeks ago

I think that’s a good idea. I wish Trump would go on TV or something and tell people to get vaccinated, although I’m not entirely convinced that it’s his supporters that are the problem.

I have encountered a number of relatively liberal young people in their 20s who think they can - or should - skip it. Some people think they will be fine without it and don’t want to deal with side effects. Other people genuinely think the vaccine is dangerous.

I heard today there is talk going around that the vaccine will make you sterile. I don’t know where this insanity comes from, but it’s out there.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
7.1.13  CB   replied to  Tacos! @7.1.11    2 weeks ago

Yes, "ditched." Thank you. Interesting comment too!

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
7.1.14  CB   replied to  Tacos! @7.1.12    2 weeks ago

If every 'side' collaborates leders can find 'followers' to fall inline. Not everyone, but enough to get the immunity our society needs.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
7.1.15  Tessylo  replied to  Tacos! @7.1.6    2 weeks ago

The misinformation/disinformation is coming from the republicans/gop.  You need to stop it!

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
7.1.16  Tessylo  replied to  Tacos! @7.1.11    2 weeks ago
"assume with all this pushback you're presenting, that you already have digged mask wearing, yes? No more mask wearing for you?"

"Do you mean “ditched?” No, I haven’t ditched it yet. I’m not fully protected until next Monday. I only got shot number 2 a week ago. And as long as the businesses I go into still require it, I won’t have a choice. That’s fine for now, but if people don’t get their shit together and get vaccinated, I’m not going to keep sacrificing because of them. If I have to go all ‘aggressive activist’ to help get people vaccinated, I will. Anti-vax morons are not going to be allowed to fuck it up for everyone else."

What exactly will you do?  Or not do?

How will you accomplish that?
 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
7.2  Tessylo  replied to  Tacos! @7    2 weeks ago
No, you're the one moving the goalposts/trumpsplaining, no one else.   Also, what a selfish attitude though typical.  Not a surprise.  
 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Participates
8  Sean Treacy    2 weeks ago

We are seeing the results of a year of democratic disinformation poisonings  the minds of left wingers in this thread.   Preying upon their innate anti-Americanism and mentally disabling hatred of Trump, progressive opinion manipulators  have fooled gullible left wingers into believing all sorts of things that aren't true and don't stand up to scrutiny.  Supposedly Americans have been hit by Covid because they don't wear masks. The reality is we do wear masks at rates that are superior or essentially equal to countries in Europe and Canada, supposedly the countries are little euro worshipping friends claim did it right. 

Now the new hotness is Trump is somehow responsible for American's supposedly catastrophic  rate of  vaccine hesitancy. We are now a third world country or something. Putting aside the insanity of equating masks and vaccines, the reality is American vaccine hesitancy is not abnormal and lower than many "first world" countries:

The numbers in the U.S. are significantly better than the E.U. Last month, in collaboration with the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control, the RECOVER Social Sciences team published a   policy brief   based on their study on public views of Covid-19 vaccination. The study covered seven European countries: France, Germany, Belgium, Italy, Spain, Sweden, and Ukraine.

Only 36% of the surveyed Europeans strongly agree with the statement that vaccines are safe. Posed the question whether respondents would be willing to be vaccinated if the vaccine was found to be safe and effective and provided free-of-charge, only between 44% and 66% answered in the affirmative. Moreover, a separate   poll in France   found that only 40% of French people want the Covid-19 vaccine.

Maybe instead of blaming Trump, ask why Biden and Democratic leaders wear masks when they don't have to? Simply employing common sense about vaccines would tell you don't panic the populace about their safety and demonstrate a benefit to getting vaccinated. 

 
 
 
r.t..b...
Masters Participates
8.1  r.t..b...  replied to  Sean Treacy @8    2 weeks ago

Maybe instead of making this about whom to blame we can come to the realization that over half a million of our fellow citizens have perished...in the country best equipped to mitigate those numbers. 

And still some seem content in the never ending, meaningless, and tired game of pointing fingers.

Forget all that and deal with the facts today.
 
Forget who chooses to wear a mask and why.

Forget trump and biden as they are meaningless at this point.

But never forget that we fighting this as one. Or at least that should be our motivation. Sadly, to our detriment, the political points to be exploited and the simple reality cannot be separated due to the rampant, rabid demagoguery.

 
 
 
Veronica
Junior Guide
8.1.1  Veronica  replied to  r.t..b... @8.1    2 weeks ago
But never forget that we fighting this as one. Or at least that should be our motivation. Sadly, to our detriment, the political and the reality cannot be separated by the rampant demagoguery.

Nicely put.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Participates
8.1.2  Sean Treacy  replied to  r.t..b... @8.1    2 weeks ago
Maybe instead of making this about whom to blame we 

This is a point better directed at those who make covid exclusively about Trump. I'm merely pointing out realty and trying to get those who cling to false narratives to understand a global pandemic of an incurable disease is more complicated than "It's Trump fault."

...in the country best equipped to mitigate those numbers. 

How so? There's no cure. It wreaks the most havoc among the elderly and overweight, of which America has high percentages, and our climate and reliance on air conditioning makes our country much more susceptible to covid than others that are located exclusively in temperate areas. 

Sadly, to our detriment, the political points to be exploited and the simple reality cannot be separated due to the rampant, rabid demagoguery.

Yes, I completely agree. That's what I've been pushing back on by trying to provide context. 

 
 
 
r.t..b...
Masters Participates
8.1.3  r.t..b...  replied to  Sean Treacy @8.1.2    2 weeks ago
...in the country best equipped to mitigate those numbers. 

“How so?”

...are you actually attempting to explain away our inability to acknowledge, confront, and control this pandemic on our elderly, our obesity, air conditioners and our climate?

How so, indeed.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Participates
8.1.4  Sean Treacy  replied to  r.t..b... @8.1.3    2 weeks ago
ally attempting to explain away our inability to acknowledge, confront, and control this pandemic on our elderly, our obesity, air conditioners and our climate?

Yes, those things matter. Climate, population density, demographics, luck.  Do you believe they don't?   The world is more complicated than believing Donald Trump causes all of it's  problems.  

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Masters Guide
8.1.5  Greg Jones  replied to  r.t..b... @8.1    2 weeks ago
And still some seem content in the never ending, meaningless, and tired game of pointing fingers.

As the author of the article repeatedly does

 
 
 
Ender
PhD Principal
8.2  Ender  replied to  Sean Treacy @8    2 weeks ago

So instead of putting any blame on the previous administration, put the blame on people that actually wear masks...

Yeah, that's the ticket...

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Masters Guide
8.2.1  Greg Jones  replied to  Ender @8.2    2 weeks ago

So instead of putting any blame on the previous administration...

Some, but not all...enough blame to go around

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
8.2.2  Tessylo  replied to  Greg Jones @8.2.1    2 weeks ago

All belongs on the former occupant of the White House.  

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
9  CB     2 weeks ago

And so this specific coronavirus may linger around year after year. That's the other 'shoe' - generally viruses are not cured (maybe "arrested.") Consider the common cold virus: its damn "ancient."

 
 
Loading...
Loading...

Who is online

Tacos!
igknorantzrulz
bbl-1


46 visitors