Why does the hard left glorify the Palestinians?

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  krishna  •  4 weeks ago  •  41 comments

By:   The Hill

Why does the hard left glorify the Palestinians?
In a world in which massive violations of human rights have, tragically, become the norm, why has the hard left focused on one of the least compelling of those causes — namely, the Palestinians?

Note: This is not an a seed attempting to praise-- or demonize-- leftists in general (or, for that matter, to demonize all of those on the right).

For while many political partisans may want to deny it, there are some crazy nutcases on the extreme lunatic fringes on both sides of the aisle. And in my very enlightened opinion,  its those extremists who pose the greatest threats to democracy


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Krishna
Professor Principal
1  seeder  Krishna    4 weeks ago

In a world in which massive violations of human rights have, tragically, become the norm, why has the hard left focused on one of the least compelling of those causes — namely, the Palestinians?

Where is the concern for the Kurds, the Chechens, the Uyghurs, the Tibetans? There are no campus demonstrations on their behalf, no expressions of concern by “the Squad” in Congress, no United Nations resolutions, no recurring op-eds in The New York Times, and no claims that the nations that oppress these groups have no right to exist

On the merits and demerits of their claims, the Palestinians have the weakest case. They have been offered statehood and independence on   numerous occasions  : in 1938, 1948, 1967, 2000-2001 and 2008.

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
Professor Expert
1.1  FLYNAVY1  replied to  Krishna @1    4 weeks ago

Honestly.... It may be as simple as the US haven given Israel billions of dollars which has in one way or another contributed to the deaths of Palestinians.  As far as I know the same can't be said of the Kurds, Chechens, Uyghurs and Tibetans.

This thing isn't going to end anytime soon.  Too much bad blood on both sides, and every bomb, and missile just makes more martyrs, and hardens the resolve to get even.  Worse, political leaders on both sides use the violence to justify staying in power.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
1.1.1  seeder  Krishna  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @1.1    4 weeks ago
Worse, political leaders on both sides use the violence to justify staying in power.

Yup.

I totally agree! 

Any suggestions as to how to solve the problem?

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
Professor Expert
1.1.2  FLYNAVY1  replied to  Krishna @1.1.1    4 weeks ago

Find a way to get the mothers on both sides together to form a political force to stop the killing of their children. 

Women if unified can stop this if their numbers are large enough.

The men sure as hell won't 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
1.1.3  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @1.1.2    4 weeks ago

On that theme, FLYNAVY1, when Golda Meir was Prime Minister of Israel she approached that idea, but it didn't work.

quote-we-can-forgive-the-arabs-for-killing-our-children-we-cannot-forgive-them-for-forcing-golda-meir-49-77-03.jpg

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
2  seeder  Krishna    4 weeks ago

Israel ended its occupation of the Gaza Strip in 2005. Yet, even now, Palestinian leaders refuse to sit down and negotiate a reasonable two-state solution. As the late Israeli diplomat Abba Eban once aptly put it, the Palestinian leadership never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

Related:

Exodus From Gaza

The forcible evacuation of August 2005

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Masters Guide
3  Thrawn 31    4 weeks ago

Whatever, Israel do what you gotta do, Palestinians you motherufckers need to accept reality. Figure it out amongst yourselves.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
4  seeder  Krishna    4 weeks ago

Nor are history and morality on their side. The Palestinian leadership allied itself   with   Nazism and Hitler in the 1940s,   with   Egyptian tyranny and antisemitism in the 1950s, and   with   international terrorism from the 1960s forward.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
5  seeder  Krishna    4 weeks ago

In 1947, the United Nations divided the land that the Romans called Palestine and the Jews called Yisrael into two areas. It provided a sliver of land along the Mediterranean and a non-arable desert called the Negev to the Jews, who were a majority in that area, and a much larger arable area to the Arabs.

The Jews declared statehood on their land. Instead of declaring statehood on their land, the Palestinians and surrounding Arab nations declared war. The Arabs lost and the Jews captured more land. As a result of the war, there occurred an exchange of populations: Hundreds of thousands of Arabs left or were forced out of Israel, and hundreds of thousands of Jews left or were forced out of Arab countries and Arab Palestine.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
6  Kavika     4 weeks ago

In an earlier article, I pointed out something that is happening in this war unlike the other two wars, the attacks within Israel between Arabs and Jews both citizens. This to me is a huge and very dangerous situation and adds a whole other element to this ''war''. 

I just read this article today and it points out that the right-wing of Israel is attacking journalists including Jewish media.

Among them, according to the Jerusalem Post, has been the prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s son Yair, who tweeted an invitation to demonstrate in front of N12’s office calling on supporters to “say no to the media’s anti-Zionist brainwashing”.

The final point is that the right-wing is calling themselves La Familia. Why would they use a Spanish term and do they have any idea of what the hell it means. La Familia translates to ''The Family''. La Familia is a major drug cartel in Mexico with tentacles throughout the world. A highly organized crime syndicate with a long history of bloodshed. 

It would seem to me that these items will do Israel a lot more harm than good.

This comment may not fit with this article, so feel free to delete it, Krish. 

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Masters Expert
6.1  Greg Jones  replied to  Kavika @6    4 weeks ago

It appears that the media is complicit in aiding and abetting the genocidal terrorism of Hamas

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
6.1.1  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Greg Jones @6.1    4 weeks ago

Re3de4430e64f0e44acf8193bd3dbae73?rik=H6yZkjgwX2b2IA&riu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jr.co.il%2Fhumorpic%2Fpc0263.jpg&ehk=AI43T2z%2BhZqWsKqidCqTY9KjkFX5BtOxuyCtva25iY4%3D&risl=&pid=ImgRaw

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
6.2  seeder  Krishna  replied to  Kavika @6    4 weeks ago
The final point is that the right-wing is calling themselves La Familia. Why would they use a Spanish term and do they have any idea of what the hell it means. La Familia translates to ''The Family''. La Familia is a major drug cartel in Mexico with tentacles throughout the world. A highly organized crime syndicate with a long history of bloodshed.  It would seem to me that these items will do Israel a lot more harm than good.

I agree.

But, for starters, remember here's what I said at the beginning of this seed:

Note: This is not an a seed attempting to praise-- or demonize-- leftists in general (or, for that matter, to demonize all of those on the right).

For while many political partisans may want to deny it, there are some crazy nutcases on the extreme lunatic fringes on both sides of the aisle. And in my very enlightened opinion,  its those extremists who pose the greatest threats to democracy.

In the U.S. we still have active members of the KKK, The American Nazi Party-- heck, even those extremist nut cases in Arizona who are going to great length to do their best to destroy democracy in their bizarre attempts to destroy democracy by seizing ballots and "examining them". (Even using Ultra-violet light to supposedly determine if the paper used has traces of Bamboo fibers...which of course would mean the China tampered with them-- or else the evil Chinese sent us biased paper type ballots.(And after all, "many people are saying" that Bamboo can't be grown anywhere in the U.S.!) It's a disgrace!!!

So does the presence of these nutcases idiots (and extremist haters) mean the U;S; is an evil totalitarian country?.

And therefore, if say some nutcase terrorist group started firing deadly missiles across  into San Diego residential areas-- the U.S. should therefore not have the right to defend itself?

 

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
6.2.1  seeder  Krishna  replied to  Krishna @6.2    4 weeks ago

The final point is that the right-wing is calling themselves La Familia. Why would they use a Spanish term and do they have any idea of what the hell it means. La Familia translates to ''The Family''. La Familia is a major drug cartel in Mexico with tentacles throughout the world. A highly organized crime syndicate with a long history of bloodshed.  It would seem to me that these items will do Israel a lot more harm than good.

I agree.

Actually I am, and have been, aware of the relatively new phenomenon which you just mentioned: the shift to the even more extreme right amongst many of Israel's citizens-- both Arab and Jew.

In addition, although Netanyahu and the Likud were always a right wing party, they have gotten much more so in recent times: Something I've been aware of and find quite worrisome.

Its ultimately bad for all people in the area-- both Arab and Jew. (Well, its actually a plus for the Barbaric Arab terror group Hamas, which currently rules the part of Palestine that now vhas independence and self-rule).

Since this seed is actually about the strange characteristics of many (not all) on the Left in the U.S., technically your bringing up this up is off topic. But generally I'm a pretty lax moderator when it comes to "Off topic" discussions (I suppose I figure that if enough people want to discuss had been  originally off topic-- it should remain)

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
6.2.2  Kavika   replied to  Krishna @6.2    4 weeks ago
And therefore, if say some nutcase terrorist group started firing deadly missiles across  into San Diego residential areas-- the U.S. should therefore not have the right to defend itself?

I think that you're misunderstanding what I'm saying, Krish. I have always believed that Israel has the right to exist and to defend itself. That, to me is a given. 

The point that I'm attempting to make is that within Israel they are on the verge of a civil war. IMO, this has the potential to be more destructive to Israel than attacks by Hamas. According to the news reports the right wing are attacking news media which included Jewish news media. How in the hell is that helping Israel get positive and truthful reports out to the world and with Bibi son getting involved with them makes it look worse. 

The choosing of La Familia as a name for their movement is beyond stupid.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
6.2.3  seeder  Krishna  replied to  Kavika @6.2.2    4 weeks ago
The point that I'm attempting to make is that within Israel they are on the verge of a civil war. IMO, this has the potential to be more destructive to Israel than attacks by Hamas. According to the news reports the right wing are attacking news media which included Jewish news media. How in the hell is that helping Israel get positive and truthful reports out to the world and with Bibi son getting involved with them makes it look worse.  The choosing of La Familia as a name for their movement is beyond stupid.

Actually I am aware of all that. And do find it quite worrisome.

(And I too support the continued existence of Israel, and while there's no historical justification for it, I never-the-less feel that the best path forward would be the creation of a second Palestinian ruled country (in addition to the one they already have in Gaza) to consist of most of the land of what is now referred to as "the West Bank").

Well, actually both areas to become part of a single unified Palestinian state-- similar in a way the creation of an independent Pakistani state occurred:

320

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
6.2.4  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Krishna @6.2    4 weeks ago
"In the U.S. we still have active members of the KKK, The American Nazi Party-- heck, even those extremist nut cases in Arizona who are going to great length to do their best to destroy democracy in their bizarre attempts to destroy democracy by seizing ballots and "examining them"......"

And what about QAnon, besides all the ignoramuses who swear the the election was stolen from Trump.

 
 
 
dennis smith
Senior Silent
6.2.5  dennis smith  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @6.2.4    4 weeks ago

And we have Antifa and BLM 

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
Professor Expert
6.2.6  FLYNAVY1  replied to  dennis smith @6.2.5    4 weeks ago

Nether of which can hold a candle to the violence perpetrated by white nationalists and shite supremacists.

 
 
 
dennis smith
Senior Silent
6.2.7  dennis smith  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @6.2.6    4 weeks ago

The opposite of your comment is true.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
6.2.8  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  dennis smith @6.2.7    4 weeks ago

When the day comes that both sides admit that there is some truth to both sides of that coin, the USA will be saved.

 
 
 
dennis smith
Senior Silent
6.2.9  dennis smith  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @6.2.8    4 weeks ago

As it should be, unfortunately we have career politicians who seem unwilling to allow that to happen.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
6.3  seeder  Krishna  replied to  Kavika @6    4 weeks ago

I just read this article today and it points out that the right-wing of Israel is attacking journalists including Jewish media.

Among them, according to the Jerusalem Post, has been the prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s son Yair, who tweeted an invitation to demonstrate in front of N12’s office calling on supporters to “say no to the media’s anti-Zionist brainwashing”.

The final point is that the right-wing is calling themselves La Familia. Why would they use a Spanish term and do they have any idea of what the hell it means. La Familia translates to ''The Family''. La Familia is a major drug cartel in Mexico with tentacles throughout the world. A highly organized crime syndicate with a long history of bloodshed. 

It would seem to me that these items will do Israel a lot more harm than good.

I totally agree with you...

That being said, re-reading my reply, I realized I left out an important aspect of this-- and that is...what can we actually

do about it? 

To put it another way-- what if some terrorist group just over the border was reigning down rockets on the area where you live?

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
6.3.1  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Krishna @6.3    4 weeks ago

I believe that the 70 years of conflict, with no settlement of it in  sight, has had the effect of causing increasing extremism and polarization of conflicting views.  Had the Palestinians accepted any of the many offers to settle the matter, I'd bet the area would have been peaceful now, but then what about the Hamas constitution?

 
 
 
Kathleen
PhD Principal
7  Kathleen    4 weeks ago

Israel needs to defend themselves and I am all for it. 

I am not talking about left or right, I am talking about what is right.  

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
7.1  seeder  Krishna  replied to  Kathleen @7    4 weeks ago
I am not talking about left or right

Which is why...there will probably be many members of NT who will not understand what you are saying! 

(I have observed that for some people, everything is about "Us Versus Them")

....hatred of "the other".

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
7.2  seeder  Krishna  replied to  Kathleen @7    4 weeks ago

P.S: Love your avatar! jrSmiley_2_smiley_image.png

 
 
 
Kathleen
PhD Principal
7.2.1  Kathleen  replied to  Krishna @7.2    4 weeks ago

Thank you Krishna!

Nice to see you : )

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
7.2.2  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Kathleen @7.2.1    4 weeks ago

His wisdom, paradoxical comments and sometimes sarcasm are much missed when he's not around. 

 
 
 
r.t..b...
Masters Participates
8  r.t..b...    4 weeks ago

When artificial and thus arbitrary boundaries are drawn up in an attempt to placate separate parties, and one party isn’t even invited to the table, what can one expect...given this has been a conflict going on for millennia...ignoring  the post WWII concessions and continually reaping the seeds of that inevitable outcome. 

No winners here, only innocent victims...as the band plays on. 

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
8.1  seeder  Krishna  replied to  r.t..b... @8    4 weeks ago

When artificial and thus arbitrary boundaries are drawn up in an attempt to placate separate parties, and one party isn’t even invited to the table, what can one expect.

But isn't that the way boundaries are always drawn up? (Well, in some cases boundaries are merely the result of war-- the winner gains more territory).

I believe what you may be referring to is the way the middle east boundaries were drawn up-- by the majors powers. But not one (as you stated) but rather two of those most affected were not represented! (neither Israel nor the Arabs had any say).

Previously the area was controlled by Britain.it was called "The British Mandate of Palestine". ("Palestine" was a roughly defined area, such as "New England" or the U.S. "South-West". It was never a racial, religious,  ethnic identity or independent country. In fact descendents of Jews who'd lived there for generations referred to themselves as "Palestinian Jews"):

The United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine was a proposal by the United Nations, which recommended a partition of Mandatory Palestine at the end of the British Mandate.

On 29 November 1947, the UN General Assembly adopted the Plan as Resolution 181 (II).[2] The resolution recommended the creation of independent Arab and Jewish States and a Special International Regime for the city of Jerusalem. The Partition Plan, a four-part document attached to the resolution, provided for the termination of the Mandate, the progressive withdrawal of British armed forces and the delineation of boundaries between the two States and Jerusalem.

Part I of the Plan stipulated that the Mandate would be terminated as soon as possible and the United Kingdom would withdraw no later than 1 August 1948. The new states would come into existence two months after the withdrawal, but no later than 1 October 1948. 

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
8.1.1  seeder  Krishna  replied to  Krishna @8.1    4 weeks ago
The  United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine   was a proposal by the United Nations, which recommended a partition of Mandatory Palestine at the end of the British Mandate.

The final vote was as follows:

Final vote

On 29 November 1947, the  United Nations General Assembly  voted 33 to 13, with 10 abstentions and 1 absent, in favour of the modified Partition Plan.

In favour (33 countries, 72% of total votes)

Against (13 countries, 28% of total votes)

Now what's relevant, specifically to your comment: Yes, you are correct. Neither the "Palestians" nor the Israelis were allowed to vote. After years of living under british rule, finally their independence was granted by the UN-- -- the solution was imposed upon them by the U.N.with neither the "Palestinians" nor the Jews having any say. 

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
8.1.2  seeder  Krishna  replied to  Krishna @8.1.1    4 weeks ago
Now what's relevant, specifically to your comment: Yes, you are correct. Neither the "Palestinians" nor the Israelis were allowed to vote. After years of living under British rule, finally their independence was granted by the UN -- -- the solution was imposed upon them by the U.N. with neither the "Palestinians" nor the Jews having much say in the matter. 

Here's the map that the UN imposed on the Jews and Arabs living in the area:

320

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
8.2  seeder  Krishna  replied to  r.t..b... @8    4 weeks ago
No winners here, only innocent victims.

And then there are the "not so innocent victims":...

How would you feel is Arab terrorists had bases just over the border in Mexico..or Canada...and were firing rockets inat civilian target in . say, San Diego...or Chicago, NY, or Boston?

Would Americans be putting pressure on our government no to take action to prevent that?

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
8.2.1  seeder  Krishna  replied to  Krishna @8.2    4 weeks ago
No winners here, only innocent victims.
And then there are the "not so innocent victims":...

How would you feel is Arab terrorists had bases just over the border in Mexico..or Canada...and were firing rockets inat civilian target in . say, San Diego...or Chicago, NY, or Boston?

Would Americans be putting pressure on our government no to take action to prevent that?

And what if these so-called "freedom Fighters" were indoctrinating their kids in the glory of "Shahada"-- be coming suicide bombers ...martyrdom for the Glory of Allah?

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
8.2.2  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Krishna @8.2    4 weeks ago

For many years now I've drawn the analogy of what would America do if terrorists in Fort Erie, Ontario, were to rain rockets on Buffalo, N.Y., across the Niagara River.  Nobody said America would not retaliate, but they expect that very thing from Israel when Hamas rains rockets down on Israel.  

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
9  Buzz of the Orient    4 weeks ago

Since there's lots of discussion that has little to do with the topic, maybe we should change the title to better fit the discussion.  My title for that would have been, WHY DOES THE WHOLE WORLD DEMONIZE ISRAEL?

Now, THAT would be an interesting topic, wouldn't it.  Although, personally, I don't think it would take a genius to know the answers.  Just to answer that everyone pulls for the underdog Palestinians is simplistic, because if that were true, then how about comparison with the feelings about the Tibetans, the Chechens, the Kurds?  I think enough accusations are being made these days by the western world about the Uyghurs.  The other reason is more insidious, and most would refuse to admit it, or it is so latent perhaps even not even realize it.  One might have to watch an old movie, Gentleman's Agreement, to discover that it exists, and how universal it is, and instead of applying the overused and worn-out term "antisemitism" let's borrow a line spoken by a German Nazi army officer in the movie Schindler's List and just call it "good old fashioned Jew hatred". 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
9.1  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @9    4 weeks ago

Carrying my thoughts a little further, nobody (except maybe the neoNazis) wants to ADMIT being an antisemite, or even appear to be one, so what does one do - OF COURSE, they attack Israel and/or support those who do.  BDS comes to mind, and for sure supporting the Palestinians and Gazans who have steadfastly attacked Israel and Israelis for many years, have refused to make peace with Israel extending the conflict for generations - like supporting the designated terrorist organzation Hamas that in its constitution is inscribed the destruction of Israel and killing of the Jews. 

The Palestinian motto:  "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free."   

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
9.2  seeder  Krishna  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @9    4 weeks ago
Just to answer that everyone pulls for the underdog Palestinians is simplistic, because if that were true, then how about comparison with the feelings about the Tibetans, the Chechens, the Kurds? 

Well, that's actually one of the main points of this article:

In a world in which massive violations of human rights have, tragically, become the norm, why has the hard left focused on one of the least compelling of those causes — namely, the Palestinians?

Where is the concern for the Kurds, the Chechens . . . the Tibetans? There are no campus demonstrations on their behalf, no expressions of concern by “the Squad” in Congress, no United Nations resolutions, no recurring op-eds in The New York Times, and no claims that the nations that oppress these groups have no right to exist

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
9.2.1  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Krishna @9.2    4 weeks ago

I think I made my opinion on that clear enough that even the most exuberant deniers would understand.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
9.3  seeder  Krishna  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @9    4 weeks ago
instead of applying the overused and worn-out term "antisemitism" let's borrow a line spoken by a German Nazi army officer in the movie Schindler's List and just call it "good old fashioned Jew hatred". 

Many people ( especially on social media sites), seem to have no real knowledge of the history of the area. 

For example, Hitler's meeting with the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem:

384

Hitler hosts Grand Mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini in 1941 in Germany.

(Heinrich Hoffmann Collection/Wikipedia)

 
 
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